main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io

Re: DC ground leak

Walter

#29044

Hi Alan,
before going into AC I would check the DC connections - you mentioned the usual suspects (electric pumps) and the leak detector is for the DC-circuit.
Do you use a laptop and to which other devices is it connected (ssb, instruments ...)?

Kind regards,
Walter (Noa, SM2K 436)

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Illustration of the Onan Exhaust Elbow Replacement

Alexandre Uster von Baar

#29043

Thanks Bill & Gary!

Noted on the illustration!
When I do it again, in 5 years, this time using the original part I cleaned, I will be using the high temperature RTV.

Thanks again for your input!

Alexandre

--------------------------------------------

Show quoted text

On Sun, 9/4/16, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@svbebe.com [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Illustration of the Onan Exhaust Elbow Replacement
 To: "amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
 Date: Sunday, September 4, 2016, 9:36 PM

       Alex,
 Great photos. I read earlier a
 discussion regarding RTV. I would not use high temperature
 RTV on the new part, but would use it if I was refitting the
 old part because of the pitting in the metal.
 Thanks for the photos.
 BillBeBe
 387
 On Sat, Sep 3, 2016 at 4:07
 PM, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@rocketmail.com
 [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
 wrote:

 Reading about Gary Silver SM#335 Liahona, Mike Gough SM 378,
 Mike Ondra SM#240 Aletes about their Exhaust Mixing Elbow
 (and Exhaust manifold) being blocked with carbon build up, I
 decided to purchase a spare Exhaust Mixing Elbow, several
 Exhaust gaskets, and change mine as preventive maintenance,
 having 2014 hours on the Onan generator.

 For the new owners like myself who are intimidated by new
 maintenance they have not performed yet, I illustrated the
 “Exhaust Elbow Replacement” on the Onan generator.

 Please do not hesitate to comment, especially if I made
 error, as this can only be beneficial for our group.

 I can already say that re-reading Gary’s email on Feb 12,
 2016, I forgot to add a thin coat of Permatex High
 Temperature RTV…

 Here is the link: 

 http://nikimat.com/onan_
 exhaust_elbow_replacement.html

 For low bandwidth user, the document is split in 6 sections.

 If bandwidth is not an issue, there is also the full version
 (37 pictures). 

 Sincerely, Alexandre

 SM2K #289 NIKIMAT

 Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico

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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Illustration of the Onan Exhaust Elbow Replacement

James Alton

#29042

Bill,

My first introduction to Tef-Gel came when I completely disassembled the spar to be refinished on which Tef-gel had been used on every fastener 12 years prior. As the boat had been cruised extensively in the Tropics I was expecting the worst. Instead I found that every single fastener came out easily, I was amazed and have used the product with great results since. I agree that this is a better solution than to use aluminum fasteners, the threads are too soft and they tend to seize up after a while.

Thanks for giving me the brand of Never-Seez that you use, copper is a little below stainless on the galvanic scale I believe. I did not know that the Loc-tite 248 came in lipstick style packaging as a gel/paste, that sounds like a much better solution than the small leaky liquid containers I have been using.

I have had great luck as well with the Drip Less Teflon packing and also the white teflon impregnated packing.

Always great to learn something new, thanks for sharing.

James

SV Sueno, Maramu #220

Show quoted text

On Sep 4, 2016, at 7:07 PM, Bill Kinney greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

James,

Tefgel and stainless machine screws are the perfect solution to attaching things to aluminum spars. I have had no trouble at all disassembling screws that have been in place for 15 years that were installed with tef-gel. I know, because I put them in, and then took them out a decade and a half later. Compare this to the trouble people have trying to take out the aluminum bolts that Amel used in an effort to avoid the issue. One of those things that must have "seemed like a great idea at the time” that didn’t work quite as well as expected.

The Bostik brand of Marine grade “Never-Seez” has “active” ingredients of copper and aluminum powder—no graphite. I have used it on stainless steel piping carrying salt water and not had any issues. I have used it on bolts going into aluminum engine blocks without a problem.

Graphite packing material is one of those things that sounds like a great idea… until you actually use it in salt water and your shaft erodes away. When I was taking care of boats with stuffing boxes, I had great luck with the teflon based “Drip-Less” packing.

The blue loctite I like best is a gel or paste that comes in a tube like lipstick. It is Loctite #248. You have to look a little harder for it than your local hardware store, it is not on their list of “consumer” products. As far as I can tell it has a very long self life. Or at least, I lose mine before it goes bad!

One place that care needs to be taken with thread lubricants: If there is a torque specification on the bolt. The lubricated bolts put a LOT more tension on things than threads assembled dry. You need to be sure that you follow the design specifications.

Bill Kinney
SM #160, Harmonie
Narragansett Bay, RI, USA
“Ships and men rot in port."
http://fetchinketch.net

On Sep 4, 2016, at 17:03, James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Bill,

Yes, apparently the “unflavoured” requirement was written right into the manual according to a good friend that worked with on the shuttle. (grin)

I have had great luck with the Tef-gel, especially when installing stainless fasteners in aluminum spars a very useful product.

Have you ever seen any pitting or corrosion issues when using the never seize on pipe connections that are immersed in salt water? I am pretty sure that some types of never seize contain graphite, which is quite high on the galvanic scale. I have never seen a problem myself to date from using the product in that application but have seen corrosion issues on stainless prop shafts from using graphite impregnated packing so worry a little. I definitely agree that something must be on stainless to stainless pipe joints.

What type of container do you buy your Blue Loc-tite in? It seems that once opened the little squeeze tubes seep/leak.

It really sounds like you know your how to deal with fasteners in the Marine environment..if there is a next owner to your boat, he is going to be a lucky guy when the time comes to take something apart! Good point about taking new hardware apart to lube up the fastenings before putting it into service.

One of my first jobs when I get back to my boat will be to remove the bow thruster that has not been serviced in quite a few years. Thankfully it appears that the previous owner was very careful about preventing corrosion since there appears to be plenty of grease between the tube and the motor and no obvious corrosion. A dab of the right goo early can sure save a lot of stress and heartache later.

I have had really good luck by the way with using the special (which translates to expensive) Vari-prop grease (it appears to be a white lithium) for winches, windlass clutch cones, applications where salt water tends to wash the lubricant away. This stuff really seems to stay put and being white does not stain sails and lines too bad. When you try to wash this stuff off of your hands, you understand why it takes so long for the Ocean to do the same!

Thanks for the tips, if you have any more to share please do!

James

SV Sueno, Maramu #220
Sardinia

On Sep 4, 2016, at 2:10 PM, Bill Kinney greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

James,

Now that’s a fun fact! But I guess magnesium hydroxide could be as good a thread lubricant as anything else. Just be sure to use the “unflavored” variety. :-)

I am not aware of any single thread lubricant or anti-seaze that works in every situation on a boat. I generally keep a few kinds in my tool box.

A teflon based product like Tef-Gel for stainless screws into aluminum, and stainless-on-stainless threads under high load.
Lanocote, for lots of general purpose applications.
Marine-grade Never-Seeze for most everything on the engine and any other high temperature applications. Also good for preventing galling with stainless-on-stainless pipe threads.
Blue Loctite for things that need help staying together.

They all do something a bit different from each other, and which one that gets used depends on what I want to happen. Do I want to lubricate the threads to make a tighter joint? Is it a part that gets wet so galvanic isolation important? Is the temperature range unusual? Is it an electrical connection so conductivity needs to be considered? It is really rare that threads get tightened on my boat without something on them.

Just as an aside, one of the things that I find makes my future life happier is anytime I buy a new piece of equipment, especially if it has stainless screws, is I pull all the screws out and lubricate them. A future disassembly then has much less aggravation.

Of course, these are the brands that I use because they are easily available to me, and have been good to me in the past. I am sure there are lots of others that are at least as good.

On Sep 4, 2016, at 11:13, James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Bill and Alexandre,

I thought that I would mention that the Kennedy Space Center uses (don’t laugh) Phllips unflavoured Milk of Magnesia on the threads of fasteners that will be exposed to high temperatures to allow for easy removal. I have used this solution on exhaust systems of cars and boats for a long time and it really does work. I am sure that there are other products and you may have as good of a solution but thought I would toss this in as an option. Some of the anti seize compounds contain metals that are quite high on the galvanic scale which concerns me some...

Best,

James

SV Sueno, Maramu #220

On Sep 4, 2016, at 11:22 AM, Bill greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Alexandre,

I would change the Lanocote. At best, it will melt and run out of the joint leaving it unprotected. At worst it would decompose in place and potentially glue the fasteners in place. Lanocote is made from the grease from sheep's wool and will not survive in the 600 C temperatures of a diesel exhaust manifold.

Bill

On Sep 4, 2016, at 07:32, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Good morning Mark & Bill,

Thank you so much for your input.
I just added your note on the illustration.

Bill, do you think Lanocote will made more bad than good (and should change it now)?

Compare to some story I remember reading with similar hours, I thought the carbon built up was pretty reasonable on mine.
Now that I have the Blue Sea AC Multimeter, I will be able to run appropriately the genset and minimize carbon build up.

Thanks to both of you, hope more people comment.
Have a great weekend!

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico

--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 9/3/16, Bill greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Illustration of the Onan Exhaust Elbow Replacement
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Saturday, September 3, 2016, 6:53 PM

Alexandre,
Great job, and helpful
pictures.
I only have
two comments.
It is
not a good idea to reuse lock washers, especially in a high
temperature application like this. They anneal and lose
their "spring" and do not do a good job the second
time around.
You are
also right to use an anti seize on the bolts, unfortunately
Lanocote is not right for this application. It will not
stand up to the temperatures of a diesel exhaust manifold.
For engine work I use a product called
"Never-Seez" that is rated for higher
temperatures. There are lots of others that work, most of
them are a suspension of powdered copper.
With a new gasket, and clean mating
surfaces I wouldn't use RTV on this unless I had
previous problems with leaks.
Bill KinneyHarmonie,
SM160Narragansett Bay, RI, USA
On Sep 3,
2016, at 17:07, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:

Reading about Gary Silver SM#335 Liahona, Mike Gough SM 378,
Mike Ondra SM#240 Aletes about their Exhaust Mixing Elbow
(and Exhaust manifold) being blocked with carbon build up, I
decided to purchase a spare Exhaust Mixing Elbow, several
Exhaust gaskets, and change mine as preventive maintenance,
having 2014 hours on the Onan generator.

For the new owners like myself who are intimidated by new
maintenance they have not performed yet, I illustrated the
“Exhaust Elbow Replacement” on the Onan generator.

Please do not hesitate to comment, especially if I made
error, as this can only be beneficial for our group.

I can already say that re-reading Gary’s email on Feb 12,
2016, I forgot to add a thin coat of Permatex High
Temperature RTV…

Here is the link:

http://nikimat.com/onan_exhaust_elbow_replacement.html

For low bandwidth user, the document is split in 6 sections.

If bandwidth is not an issue, there is also the full version
(37 pictures).

Sincerely, Alexandre

SM2K #289 NIKIMAT

Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico

Re: DC ground leak

Alan Leslie

#29040

Thanks Bob,

we do have a galvanic isolator wired into the ground wire that comes from the shore power cable, but this is happening while we are at sea!

We noticed that it seems to happen after using the washing machine, but that makes no sense at all....

when it happens again I will completely disconnect everything DC powered with a ground and hopefully find it.

Cheers

Alan

Elyse SM437

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Illustration of the Onan Exhaust Elbow Replacement

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>

#29039

Alex,

Great photos. I read earlier a discussion regarding RTV. I would not use high temperature RTV on the new part, but would use it if I was refitting the old part because of the pitting in the metal.

Thanks for the photos.

Bill

BeBe 387

Show quoted text

On Sat, Sep 3, 2016 at 4:07 PM, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Reading about Gary Silver SM#335 Liahona, Mike Gough SM 378, Mike Ondra SM#240 Aletes about their Exhaust Mixing Elbow (and Exhaust manifold) being blocked with carbon build up, I decided to purchase a spare Exhaust Mixing Elbow, several Exhaust gaskets, and change mine as preventive maintenance, having 2014 hours on the Onan generator.

For the new owners like myself who are intimidated by new maintenance they have not performed yet, I illustrated the “Exhaust Elbow Replacement” on the Onan generator.

Please do not hesitate to comment, especially if I made error, as this can only be beneficial for our group.
I can already say that re-reading Gary’s email on Feb 12, 2016, I forgot to add a thin coat of Permatex High Temperature RTV…

Here is the link:
http://nikimat.com/onan_exhaust_elbow_replacement.html

For low bandwidth user, the document is split in 6 sections.

If bandwidth is not an issue, there is also the full version (37 pictures).

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Illustration of the Onan Exhaust Elbow Replacement

amelliahona <no_reply@...>

#29038

Alexandre: Great Job of compiling that photo essay. Thanks for sharing. Gary Silver

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rudder , zincs, bonding, and cleaning inside

yahoogroups@...

#29037

Please feel free to correct me, but the rudder zincs are wired in series, and I belieI believe the closest zinc to the source protected goes first.

Bill

BeBe 387

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rudder , zincs, bonding, and cleaning inside

Richard03801 <richard03801@...>

#29036

Over time in the rudder the threads get a bit soft tending to not conduct well. So a size bigger generally solved the problem.

Fair Winds Smooth Sailing

Capt Richard Piller

Newport RI

Cell 603 767 5330

Show quoted text

On Sep 4, 2016, at 13:05, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Richard, Do you know the width/thickness of the strap ? That's not a bad idea to tap it a bit larger or at the least run a tap through it to clean the threads up.

Thanks,Pat

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard03801 richard03801@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Sun, Sep 4, 2016 11:58 am
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rudder , zincs, bonding, and cleaning inside

Hi Pat you can also tap the bolt threads one size larger to increase the surface area and provide a fresh surface. And yes as a result you'll have drill the hole in the zinc larger.

Fair Winds Smooth Sailing

Capt Richard Piller

Newport RI

Cell 603 767 5330

On Sep 4, 2016, at 09:37, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Eric, One of my zincs also dissolves faster than the other . My electrician found that I only had 560 at the strap. He is trying to determine if I have a leak , but we also surmised that I may have degraded continuity . I assume that there is two stainless straps welded to the rudder post that are tapped for the bolts that hold the zincs. I wonder what the thickness of the plates are , as the only contact is , the threaded area. If mud or debris found its way between the threads I assume that could lower continuity. If we cannot find any leak or other cause for the low number my electrician suggested that we add a larger zinc with two bronze studs ( better conductor than stainless) through the hull and connect to the strap or quadrant. I cannot see how you could do any harm by putting a rod up through the hole, its just an empty void , but I don't think its going to help much to clean out the i nside . I also cannot see any harm in enlarging the hole . Rinsing the inside with a hose probably would help to get some old muck out .

I would be interested to know if you get the number up.

Pat SM123

-----Original Message-----
From: kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Sun, Sep 4, 2016 5:41 am
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rudder , zincs, bonding, and cleaning inside

I have recently noticed that one zinc on the rudder is active and the other is not.

I believe there are S/S fingers inside the rudder which are attached to the rudder post. which in turn is attached to the bonding. Anyone have an idea as to why I might be having dissimilar erosion of the
zincs.

I also have put a piece of threaded rod into the hole in the bottom of the rudder and a lot of black silt and parts of shells come out of the rudder. Does anyone think I am doing harm to the rudder with this 2 foot long piece of rod?

I was thinking of making the hole in the rudder slightly larger. I would then insert a piece of soft copper tubing and attach it to a garden hose and basically power wash the inside, . Any comments?There would be enough space between the tubing and the tubing to allow outflow of silt and shell pieces.

Today I finished cleaning the wet bilge to inspect the bonding strap, everything was good. However when I measured the voltage at the strap with the silver chloride electrode in the water I only got -675
mv I dropped my zinc guppy in the water and it wend down to -725.I also checked it at the engine bonding and it was the same. I forgot to check it at the rudder.I will do that today. I assume it is caused by the inactive zinc. Again, any ideas?

Fair winds,

Eric

SM 376 Kimberlite in Lon Island, NY.

Any ideas why? I assume it is the inactive zinc on the rudder

Re: Introduction / new owner SM#351

rcavie <no_reply@...>

#29041

Niels

I am looking an Amel Super Maramu. In this group you told us you were the new owner of Bigouz. But I see Bigouz again on sale.

May I know why are you selling Bigouz again?

Thank you

Rafael

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Illustration of the Onan Exhaust Elbow Replacement

Bill Kinney <greatketch@...>

#29035

James,

Tefgel and stainless machine screws are the perfect solution to attaching things to aluminum spars. I have had no trouble at all disassembling screws that have been in place for 15 years that were installed with tef-gel. I know, because I put them in, and then took them out a decade and a half later. Compare this to the trouble people have trying to take out the aluminum bolts that Amel used in an effort to avoid the issue. One of those things that must have "seemed like a great idea at the time” that didn’t work quite as well as expected.

The Bostik brand of Marine grade “Never-Seez” has “active” ingredients of copper and aluminum powder—no graphite. I have used it on stainless steel piping carrying salt water and not had any issues. I have used it on bolts going into aluminum engine blocks without a problem.

Graphite packing material is one of those things that sounds like a great idea… until you actually use it in salt water and your shaft erodes away. When I was taking care of boats with stuffing boxes, I had great luck with the teflon based “Drip-Less” packing.

The blue loctite I like best is a gel or paste that comes in a tube like lipstick. It is Loctite #248. You have to look a little harder for it than your local hardware store, it is not on their list of “consumer” products. As far as I can tell it has a very long self life. Or at least, I lose mine before it goes bad!

One place that care needs to be taken with thread lubricants: If there is a torque specification on the bolt. The lubricated bolts put a LOT more tension on things than threads assembled dry. You need to be sure that you follow the design specifications.

Bill Kinney

SM #160, Harmonie

Narragansett Bay, RI, USA

“Ships and men rot in port."

http://fetchinketch.net

Show quoted text

On Sep 4, 2016, at 17:03, James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Bill,

Yes, apparently the “unflavoured” requirement was written right into the manual according to a good friend that worked with on the shuttle. (grin)

I have had great luck with the Tef-gel, especially when installing stainless fasteners in aluminum spars a very useful product.

Have you ever seen any pitting or corrosion issues when using the never seize on pipe connections that are immersed in salt water? I am pretty sure that some types of never seize contain graphite, which is quite high on the galvanic scale. I have never seen a problem myself to date from using the product in that application but have seen corrosion issues on stainless prop shafts from using graphite impregnated packing so worry a little. I definitely agree that something must be on stainless to stainless pipe joints.

What type of container do you buy your Blue Loc-tite in? It seems that once opened the little squeeze tubes seep/leak.

It really sounds like you know your how to deal with fasteners in the Marine environment..if there is a next owner to your boat, he is going to be a lucky guy when the time comes to take something apart! Good point about taking new hardware apart to lube up the fastenings before putting it into service.

One of my first jobs when I get back to my boat will be to remove the bow thruster that has not been serviced in quite a few years. Thankfully it appears that the previous owner was very careful about preventing corrosion since there appears to be plenty of grease between the tube and the motor and no obvious corrosion. A dab of the right goo early can sure save a lot of stress and heartache later.

I have had really good luck by the way with using the special (which translates to expensive) Vari-prop grease (it appears to be a white lithium) for winches, windlass clutch cones, applications where salt water tends to wash the lubricant away. This stuff really seems to stay put and being white does not stain sails and lines too bad. When you try to wash this stuff off of your hands, you understand why it takes so long for the Ocean to do the same!

Thanks for the tips, if you have any more to share please do!

James

SV Sueno, Maramu #220
Sardinia

On Sep 4, 2016, at 2:10 PM, Bill Kinney greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

James,

Now that’s a fun fact! But I guess magnesium hydroxide could be as good a thread lubricant as anything else. Just be sure to use the “unflavored” variety. :-)

I am not aware of any single thread lubricant or anti-seaze that works in every situation on a boat. I generally keep a few kinds in my tool box.

A teflon based product like Tef-Gel for stainless screws into aluminum, and stainless-on-stainless threads under high load.
Lanocote, for lots of general purpose applications.
Marine-grade Never-Seeze for most everything on the engine and any other high temperature applications. Also good for preventing galling with stainless-on-stainless pipe threads.
Blue Loctite for things that need help staying together.

They all do something a bit different from each other, and which one that gets used depends on what I want to happen. Do I want to lubricate the threads to make a tighter joint? Is it a part that gets wet so galvanic isolation important? Is the temperature range unusual? Is it an electrical connection so conductivity needs to be considered? It is really rare that threads get tightened on my boat without something on them.

Just as an aside, one of the things that I find makes my future life happier is anytime I buy a new piece of equipment, especially if it has stainless screws, is I pull all the screws out and lubricate them. A future disassembly then has much less aggravation.

Of course, these are the brands that I use because they are easily available to me, and have been good to me in the past. I am sure there are lots of others that are at least as good.

On Sep 4, 2016, at 11:13, James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Bill and Alexandre,

I thought that I would mention that the Kennedy Space Center uses (don’t laugh) Phllips unflavoured Milk of Magnesia on the threads of fasteners that will be exposed to high temperatures to allow for easy removal. I have used this solution on exhaust systems of cars and boats for a long time and it really does work. I am sure that there are other products and you may have as good of a solution but thought I would toss this in as an option. Some of the anti seize compounds contain metals that are quite high on the galvanic scale which concerns me some...

Best,

James

SV Sueno, Maramu #220

On Sep 4, 2016, at 11:22 AM, Bill greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Alexandre,

I would change the Lanocote. At best, it will melt and run out of the joint leaving it unprotected. At worst it would decompose in place and potentially glue the fasteners in place. Lanocote is made from the grease from sheep's wool and will not survive in the 600 C temperatures of a diesel exhaust manifold.

Bill

On Sep 4, 2016, at 07:32, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Good morning Mark & Bill,

Thank you so much for your input.
I just added your note on the illustration.

Bill, do you think Lanocote will made more bad than good (and should change it now)?

Compare to some story I remember reading with similar hours, I thought the carbon built up was pretty reasonable on mine.
Now that I have the Blue Sea AC Multimeter, I will be able to run appropriately the genset and minimize carbon build up.

Thanks to both of you, hope more people comment.
Have a great weekend!

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico

--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 9/3/16, Bill greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Illustration of the Onan Exhaust Elbow Replacement
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Saturday, September 3, 2016, 6:53 PM

Alexandre,
Great job, and helpful
pictures.
I only have
two comments.
It is
not a good idea to reuse lock washers, especially in a high
temperature application like this. They anneal and lose
their "spring" and do not do a good job the second
time around.
You are
also right to use an anti seize on the bolts, unfortunately
Lanocote is not right for this application. It will not
stand up to the temperatures of a diesel exhaust manifold.
For engine work I use a product called
"Never-Seez" that is rated for higher
temperatures. There are lots of others that work, most of
them are a suspension of powdered copper.
With a new gasket, and clean mating
surfaces I wouldn't use RTV on this unless I had
previous problems with leaks.
Bill KinneyHarmonie,
SM160Narragansett Bay, RI, USA
On Sep 3,
2016, at 17:07, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:

Reading about Gary Silver SM#335 Liahona, Mike Gough SM 378,
Mike Ondra SM#240 Aletes about their Exhaust Mixing Elbow
(and Exhaust manifold) being blocked with carbon build up, I
decided to purchase a spare Exhaust Mixing Elbow, several
Exhaust gaskets, and change mine as preventive maintenance,
having 2014 hours on the Onan generator.

For the new owners like myself who are intimidated by new
maintenance they have not performed yet, I illustrated the
“Exhaust Elbow Replacement” on the Onan generator.

Please do not hesitate to comment, especially if I made
error, as this can only be beneficial for our group.

I can already say that re-reading Gary’s email on Feb 12,
2016, I forgot to add a thin coat of Permatex High
Temperature RTV…

Here is the link:

http://nikimat.com/onan_exhaust_elbow_replacement.html

For low bandwidth user, the document is split in 6 sections.

If bandwidth is not an issue, there is also the full version
(37 pictures).

Sincerely, Alexandre

SM2K #289 NIKIMAT

Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Illustration of the Onan Exhaust Elbow Replacement

James Alton

#29034

Bill,

Yes, apparently the “unflavoured” requirement was written right into the manual according to a good friend that worked with on the shuttle. (grin)

I have had great luck with the Tef-gel, especially when installing stainless fasteners in aluminum spars a very useful product.

Have you ever seen any pitting or corrosion issues when using the never seize on pipe connections that are immersed in salt water? I am pretty sure that some types of never seize contain graphite, which is quite high on the galvanic scale. I have never seen a problem myself to date from using the product in that application but have seen corrosion issues on stainless prop shafts from using graphite impregnated packing so worry a little. I definitely agree that something must be on stainless to stainless pipe joints.

What type of container do you buy your Blue Loc-tite in? It seems that once opened the little squeeze tubes seep/leak.

It really sounds like you know your how to deal with fasteners in the Marine environment..if there is a next owner to your boat, he is going to be a lucky guy when the time comes to take something apart! Good point about taking new hardware apart to lube up the fastenings before putting it into service.

One of my first jobs when I get back to my boat will be to remove the bow thruster that has not been serviced in quite a few years. Thankfully it appears that the previous owner was very careful about preventing corrosion since there appears to be plenty of grease between the tube and the motor and no obvious corrosion. A dab of the right goo early can sure save a lot of stress and heartache later.

I have had really good luck by the way with using the special (which translates to expensive) Vari-prop grease (it appears to be a white lithium) for winches, windlass clutch cones, applications where salt water tends to wash the lubricant away. This stuff really seems to stay put and being white does not stain sails and lines too bad. When you try to wash this stuff off of your hands, you understand why it takes so long for the Ocean to do the same!

Thanks for the tips, if you have any more to share please do!

James

SV Sueno, Maramu #220

Sardinia

Show quoted text

On Sep 4, 2016, at 2:10 PM, Bill Kinney greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

James,

Now that’s a fun fact! But I guess magnesium hydroxide could be as good a thread lubricant as anything else. Just be sure to use the “unflavored” variety. :-)

I am not aware of any single thread lubricant or anti-seaze that works in every situation on a boat. I generally keep a few kinds in my tool box.

A teflon based product like Tef-Gel for stainless screws into aluminum, and stainless-on-stainless threads under high load.
Lanocote, for lots of general purpose applications.
Marine-grade Never-Seeze for most everything on the engine and any other high temperature applications. Also good for preventing galling with stainless-on-stainless pipe threads.
Blue Loctite for things that need help staying together.

They all do something a bit different from each other, and which one that gets used depends on what I want to happen. Do I want to lubricate the threads to make a tighter joint? Is it a part that gets wet so galvanic isolation important? Is the temperature range unusual? Is it an electrical connection so conductivity needs to be considered? It is really rare that threads get tightened on my boat without something on them.

Just as an aside, one of the things that I find makes my future life happier is anytime I buy a new piece of equipment, especially if it has stainless screws, is I pull all the screws out and lubricate them. A future disassembly then has much less aggravation.

Of course, these are the brands that I use because they are easily available to me, and have been good to me in the past. I am sure there are lots of others that are at least as good.

On Sep 4, 2016, at 11:13, James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Bill and Alexandre,

I thought that I would mention that the Kennedy Space Center uses (don’t laugh) Phllips unflavoured Milk of Magnesia on the threads of fasteners that will be exposed to high temperatures to allow for easy removal. I have used this solution on exhaust systems of cars and boats for a long time and it really does work. I am sure that there are other products and you may have as good of a solution but thought I would toss this in as an option. Some of the anti seize compounds contain metals that are quite high on the galvanic scale which concerns me some...

Best,

James

SV Sueno, Maramu #220

On Sep 4, 2016, at 11:22 AM, Bill greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Alexandre,

I would change the Lanocote. At best, it will melt and run out of the joint leaving it unprotected. At worst it would decompose in place and potentially glue the fasteners in place. Lanocote is made from the grease from sheep's wool and will not survive in the 600 C temperatures of a diesel exhaust manifold.

Bill

On Sep 4, 2016, at 07:32, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Good morning Mark & Bill,

Thank you so much for your input.
I just added your note on the illustration.

Bill, do you think Lanocote will made more bad than good (and should change it now)?

Compare to some story I remember reading with similar hours, I thought the carbon built up was pretty reasonable on mine.
Now that I have the Blue Sea AC Multimeter, I will be able to run appropriately the genset and minimize carbon build up.

Thanks to both of you, hope more people comment.
Have a great weekend!

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico

--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 9/3/16, Bill greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Illustration of the Onan Exhaust Elbow Replacement
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Saturday, September 3, 2016, 6:53 PM

Alexandre,
Great job, and helpful
pictures.
I only have
two comments.
It is
not a good idea to reuse lock washers, especially in a high
temperature application like this. They anneal and lose
their "spring" and do not do a good job the second
time around.
You are
also right to use an anti seize on the bolts, unfortunately
Lanocote is not right for this application. It will not
stand up to the temperatures of a diesel exhaust manifold.
For engine work I use a product called
"Never-Seez" that is rated for higher
temperatures. There are lots of others that work, most of
them are a suspension of powdered copper.
With a new gasket, and clean mating
surfaces I wouldn't use RTV on this unless I had
previous problems with leaks.
Bill KinneyHarmonie,
SM160Narragansett Bay, RI, USA
On Sep 3,
2016, at 17:07, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:

Reading about Gary Silver SM#335 Liahona, Mike Gough SM 378,
Mike Ondra SM#240 Aletes about their Exhaust Mixing Elbow
(and Exhaust manifold) being blocked with carbon build up, I
decided to purchase a spare Exhaust Mixing Elbow, several
Exhaust gaskets, and change mine as preventive maintenance,
having 2014 hours on the Onan generator.

For the new owners like myself who are intimidated by new
maintenance they have not performed yet, I illustrated the
“Exhaust Elbow Replacement” on the Onan generator.

Please do not hesitate to comment, especially if I made
error, as this can only be beneficial for our group.

I can already say that re-reading Gary’s email on Feb 12,
2016, I forgot to add a thin coat of Permatex High
Temperature RTV…

Here is the link:

http://nikimat.com/onan_exhaust_elbow_replacement.html

For low bandwidth user, the document is split in 6 sections.

If bandwidth is not an issue, there is also the full version
(37 pictures).

Sincerely, Alexandre

SM2K #289 NIKIMAT

Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rudder , zincs, bonding, and cleaning inside

kimberlite@...

#29033

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rudder , zincs, bonding, and cleaning inside

Bill Kinney <greatketch@...>

#29032

I posted images of the drawing I have in a new folder “Amel Drawings”

This drawing is dated 1988, so it is from the very earliest production of the Super Maramu. I do not know idea if there were subsequent changes. This drawing was included in Amel’s delivery information package for my boat, #160 in 1996, so I think it is safe to assume that it was current at least that long.

Bill Kinney

SM #160, Harmonie

Narragansett Bay, RI, USA

“Ships and men rot in port."

http://fetchinketch.net

Show quoted text

On Sep 4, 2016, at 13:27, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Yes please!

Sincerely, Alexandre

--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 9/4/16, Bill Kinney greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rudder , zincs, bonding, and cleaning inside
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Sunday, September 4, 2016, 12:14 PM

I have a copy of Amel’s drawing of the rudder and
steering system. If somebody is interested, I can post
it.

Bill KinneySM #160, HarmonieNarragansett Bay, RI,
USA“Ships and men
rot in port."http://fetchinketch.net

On Sep 4, 2016, at 13:05, Patrick
Mcaneny sailw32@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:

Richard, Do you know the
width/thickness of the strap ? That's not a bad idea
to tap it a bit larger or at the least run a tap through it
to clean the threads up.Thanks,Pat

-----Original Message-----
From:
Richard03801 richard03801@... [amelyachtowners]
<amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners
<amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Sun, Sep 4,
2016 11:58 am
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners]
Rudder , zincs, bonding, and cleaning inside

Hi Pat you can also tap the bolt
threads one size larger to increase the surface area and
provide a fresh surface. And yes as a result you'll have
drill the hole in the zinc larger.
Fair Winds Smooth Sailing
Capt Richard
PillerNewport RI Cell 603 767
5330
On Sep 4, 2016, at 09:37, Patrick
Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners]
<amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:

Eric, One of my zincs also dissolves
faster than the other . My electrician found that I only had
560 at the strap. He is trying to determine if I have a leak
, but we also surmised that I may have degraded continuity .
I assume that there is two stainless straps welded to the
rudder post that are tapped for the bolts that hold the
zincs. I wonder what the thickness of the plates are , as
the only contact is , the threaded area. If mud or debris
found its way between the threads I assume that could lower
continuity. If we cannot find any leak or other cause for
the low number my electrician suggested that we add a larger
zinc with two bronze studs ( better conductor than
stainless) through the hull and connect to the strap or
quadrant. I cannot see how you could do any harm by putting
a rod up through the hole, its just an empty void , but
I don't think its going to help much to clean out the i
nside . I also cannot see any harm in enlarging the hole .
Rinsing the inside with a hose probably would help to get
some old muck out .I would be interested to know if
you get the number up.
Pat SM123

-----Original Message-----
From: kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners]
<amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners
<amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Sun, Sep 4,
2016 5:41 am
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners]
Rudder , zincs, bonding, and cleaning inside

I have recently noticed that one
zinc on the rudder is active and the other is not. I believe there are S/S fingers
inside the rudder which are attached to the rudder post.
which in turn is attached to the bonding. Anyone have an
idea as to why I might be having dissimilar erosion of
the zincs.I also have put a piece of
threaded rod into the hole in the bottom of the rudder and a
lot of black silt and parts of shells come out of the
rudder. Does anyone think I am doing harm to the rudder with
this 2 foot long piece of rod?I was thinking of making the hole
in the rudder slightly larger. I would then insert a piece
of soft copper tubing and attach it to a garden hose and
basically power wash the inside, . Any comments?There would
be enough space between the tubing and the tubing to allow
outflow of silt and shell pieces.Today I finished cleaning the wet
bilge to inspect the bonding strap, everything was good.
However when I measured the voltage at the strap with the
silver chloride electrode in the water I only got -675 mv I
dropped my zinc guppy in the water and it wend down to
-725.I also checked it at the engine bonding and it was the
same. I forgot to check it at the rudder.I will do that
today. I assume it is caused by the inactive zinc. Again,
any ideas?Fair winds,Eric
SM 376 Kimberlite in
Lon Island, NY.Any ideas why? I assume it is the
inactive zinc on the rudder

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