Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] SM Jib Furler Failure.

Alan Leslie
 

Hello Kent,

None of the rigging on my SM is attached to the bonding system.....

Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] SM Jib Furler Failure.

Alan Leslie
 

Hello Kent,

None of the rigging on my SM is attached to the bonding system.....

Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Re: SM Jib Furler Failure.

Alan Leslie
 

We have had a similar thing happen, but the plate is not totally destroyed.
We were sailing with 2 reefs and then suddenly the jib unfurled itself. Tried with the motor and it was turning but the jib kept unfurling. Came right off the wind, loose sheets and the motor was able to furl it in. Carried on the next bay with staysail.
Took the two halves of the furler-foil drive apart and saw that our plate actually has two big slots for the manual pin. What had happened is that the manual pin had come out of the slot in the plate and the sail unfurled. That slot in the plate is distorted and now useless. I reassembled it so the manual pin is in the other undestroyed slot and its all working except that the problem we have now is that the manual furling pin is bent and we can't pull it up to manually furl the jib.
If the motor fails we'll have to drop it.
Anybody have that experience and how did you solve it ?
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bonding

karkauai
 

Yes, Pat, salinity, temperature, and water flow can all affect the reading, although I don't remember exactly what happens under those circumstances.

Kent

On Sep 22, 2016, at 2:28 PM, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@aol.com [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Sep 22, 2016 12:33 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bonding


Pat, if the hull potential is different from the drive than from the engine and everything else, it isn't connected well to the rest of the bonding


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bonding

Patrick McAneny
 

Kent ,We put  a large , massive zinc over the side , connected it to gen set and the number only went from-804 to -825. Would fresh water , opposed to salt water change the numbers expected , the electricians believed so . they said water temperature also affects it. I am going to buy a silver anode and spend some time on this.
Thanks,
Pat


-----Original Message-----
From: Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Thu, Sep 22, 2016 12:33 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bonding

 
Pat, if the hull potential is different from the drive than from the engine and everything else, it isn't connected well to the rest of the bonding system.  Normally you would see a better reading at the engine than at the drive.  If you don't have a prop zinc, I can't explain the findings.  If you have two problems, a bad connection at the rudder, and a bad connection at the drive, they would read differently.  If you have a prop zinc it could be protecting the drive but the rudder zincs not protecting the rest of the boat.
Get in the engine room with your multitester and look for resistance between all bonded parts and the strap, including the rudder post.  There should be essentially no resistance between all bonded equipment.
To check the zinc connection to the rudder, you have to haul the boat out and run a wire from the rudder post to the zincs and check resistance.

Does that make sense?  If not, please chime in!

Kent
SM243
Kristy
 

On Sep 22, 2016, at 11:58 AM, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
Kristy, Why do you think the drive connection has failed , if it shows Like -1000mv , I may have left off the - in my email , is that why? I guess the engine can be bonded to the zincs without being grounded ? I have no prop zinc , and don't understand how the strap and the Cdrive are so different in their reading.
Thanks ,
Pat


-----Original Message-----
From: Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Thu, Sep 22, 2016 9:13 am
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bonding

 
Hi Pat.  It sounds like your drive connection to the bonding system has failed.  Do you have a prop zinc?  On Kristy the connection to the bonding system is at one of the bolts on the housing at the top of the vertical drive shaft.  Around -1000mv hull potential is correct for your boat.  Your 804 (I assume really -804mv) reading indicates under protection of the whole system, so I would first check the connections between the strap and the rudder.  I hope you'll find something there, as that would be the simplest thing to fix.  If they are all OK, you'll need to check connections of the zincs to the rudder.  Only way I know to do that is haul the boat out and check continuity from the zinc to the rudder post.  I guess you could remove the zincs and wire brush the bolts and bottle brush the bolt holes with a SS or Brass brush if you can find one.

Let us know what you find.

Kent
SM243
Kristy

On Sep 22, 2016, at 8:37 AM, sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
How is the Cdrive & engine protected , if it not connected to the bonding system. With the silver anode the electrician had a reading over 1000 mv at the C-Drive, and at the strap 804. With the battery connection off, everything off it was 804 , with everything on ,still 804 . I suppose the 804 could be explain by poor zinc/bolt contact and the test being conducted in fresh water. If the engine is not grounded / bonded , how is it protected?
Thanks ,
Pat SM 123


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] SM Jib Furler Failure.

Mark Pitt
 

Hi Bill,

I had this plate corrode on my Super Maramu in 2011.  One day I noticed the corrosion and kept my eye in it for a couple of months as it progressed fairly quickly. I could not detect an electrical or other source for the problem. I was in Indonesia and ordered a new one from Amel to be shipped to Singapore and worried that the plate might fall apart before I got there.  I used some Amsteel line to strengthen it.  

The new ones are cut in half so that you can install it without having to remove the foil from the furler. It has been five years since I replaced the plate and it still looks perfect.  I have no idea why the original plate corroded but it gave the appearance of an electrical leak.

Mark Pitt
Sabbatical III, ASM #419, Corsica 


On Sep 22, 2016, at 5:56 PM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Just shooting from the hip here Bill, I've not heard of a failure like that before.  Glad you were able to get it furled manually...did you have the manual furler set up already?
Certainly corrosion the most likely culprit, but why such catastrophic failure?  1.  Could there have been some stray current involved?  2.  I'm sure it should be attached to the bonding system, if that failed, it might not have been protected.  The aluminum would go b4 the SS.  I couldn't keep paint on my furler despite two "professional" paint jobs.  I finally took it apart and had it powder coated 3 years ago and so far looks great.

Could the bolts have been tightened too much creating cracks that allowed water ingress?

Will be interested to hear what you find.

Kent
SM 243
Kristy

On Sep 22, 2016, at 10:58 AM, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

In the SM jib furler, there is an aluminum plate that transfers the torque from the motor to the foil via the release pin.  It has one large hole in it that accepts the release pin, and smaller holes which take machine screws down into the rotating part of the motor.


Yesterday while sailing in 20 to 25 knots of wind, close-hauled, with the jib rolled up to its second reef mark, that plate self destructed, cracking into several pieces releasing the jib foil from the furler motor.  I am happy to report the manual furling system does work, after a fashion.  


I haven’t had the chance to disassemble things yet to see if other damage occurred as well which might have either caused, or been caused by, the plate failure.


Anybody see this failure before? Other than it’s old and showed signs of corrosion, which is certainly sufficient to be the primary cause, anybody have another potential cause I should look out for?


Bill Kinney

SM#160, Harmonie

Chesapeake Bay, VA, USA



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bonding

karkauai
 

Pat, if the hull potential is different from the drive than from the engine and everything else, it isn't connected well to the rest of the bonding system.  Normally you would see a better reading at the engine than at the drive.  If you don't have a prop zinc, I can't explain the findings.  If you have two problems, a bad connection at the rudder, and a bad connection at the drive, they would read differently.  If you have a prop zinc it could be protecting the drive but the rudder zincs not protecting the rest of the boat.
Get in the engine room with your multitester and look for resistance between all bonded parts and the strap, including the rudder post.  There should be essentially no resistance between all bonded equipment.
To check the zinc connection to the rudder, you have to haul the boat out and run a wire from the rudder post to the zincs and check resistance.

Does that make sense?  If not, please chime in!

Kent
SM243
Kristy
 

On Sep 22, 2016, at 11:58 AM, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kristy, Why do you think the drive connection has failed , if it shows Like -1000mv , I may have left off the - in my email , is that why? I guess the engine can be bonded to the zincs without being grounded ? I have no prop zinc , and don't understand how the strap and the Cdrive are so different in their reading.
Thanks ,
Pat


-----Original Message-----
From: Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Thu, Sep 22, 2016 9:13 am
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bonding

 
Hi Pat.  It sounds like your drive connection to the bonding system has failed.  Do you have a prop zinc?  On Kristy the connection to the bonding system is at one of the bolts on the housing at the top of the vertical drive shaft.  Around -1000mv hull potential is correct for your boat.  Your 804 (I assume really -804mv) reading indicates under protection of the whole system, so I would first check the connections between the strap and the rudder.  I hope you'll find something there, as that would be the simplest thing to fix.  If they are all OK, you'll need to check connections of the zincs to the rudder.  Only way I know to do that is haul the boat out and check continuity from the zinc to the rudder post.  I guess you could remove the zincs and wire brush the bolts and bottle brush the bolt holes with a SS or Brass brush if you can find one.

Let us know what you find.

Kent
SM243
Kristy

On Sep 22, 2016, at 8:37 AM, sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
How is the Cdrive & engine protected , if it not connected to the bonding system. With the silver anode the electrician had a reading over 1000 mv at the C-Drive, and at the strap 804. With the battery connection off, everything off it was 804 , with everything on ,still 804 . I suppose the 804 could be explain by poor zinc/bolt contact and the test being conducted in fresh water. If the engine is not grounded / bonded , how is it protected?
Thanks ,
Pat SM 123


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bonding

Patrick McAneny
 

Kristy, Why do you think the drive connection has failed , if it shows Like -1000mv , I may have left off the - in my email , is that why? I guess the engine can be bonded to the zincs without being grounded ? I have no prop zinc , and don't understand how the strap and the Cdrive are so different in their reading.
Thanks ,
Pat


-----Original Message-----
From: Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Thu, Sep 22, 2016 9:13 am
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bonding

 
Hi Pat.  It sounds like your drive connection to the bonding system has failed.  Do you have a prop zinc?  On Kristy the connection to the bonding system is at one of the bolts on the housing at the top of the vertical drive shaft.  Around -1000mv hull potential is correct for your boat.  Your 804 (I assume really -804mv) reading indicates under protection of the whole system, so I would first check the connections between the strap and the rudder.  I hope you'll find something there, as that would be the simplest thing to fix.  If they are all OK, you'll need to check connections of the zincs to the rudder.  Only way I know to do that is haul the boat out and check continuity from the zinc to the rudder post.  I guess you could remove the zincs and wire brush the bolts and bottle brush the bolt holes with a SS or Brass brush if you can find one.

Let us know what you find.

Kent
SM243
Kristy

On Sep 22, 2016, at 8:37 AM, sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
How is the Cdrive & engine protected , if it not connected to the bonding system. With the silver anode the electrician had a reading over 1000 mv at the C-Drive, and at the strap 804. With the battery connection off, everything off it was 804 , with everything on ,still 804 . I suppose the 804 could be explain by poor zinc/bolt contact and the test being conducted in fresh water. If the engine is not grounded / bonded , how is it protected?
Thanks ,
Pat SM 123


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] SM Jib Furler Failure.

karkauai
 

Just shooting from the hip here Bill, I've not heard of a failure like that before.  Glad you were able to get it furled manually...did you have the manual furler set up already?
Certainly corrosion the most likely culprit, but why such catastrophic failure?  1.  Could there have been some stray current involved?  2.  I'm sure it should be attached to the bonding system, if that failed, it might not have been protected.  The aluminum would go b4 the SS.  I couldn't keep paint on my furler despite two "professional" paint jobs.  I finally took it apart and had it powder coated 3 years ago and so far looks great.

Could the bolts have been tightened too much creating cracks that allowed water ingress?

Will be interested to hear what you find.

Kent
SM 243
Kristy

On Sep 22, 2016, at 10:58 AM, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

In the SM jib furler, there is an aluminum plate that transfers the torque from the motor to the foil via the release pin.  It has one large hole in it that accepts the release pin, and smaller holes which take machine screws down into the rotating part of the motor.


Yesterday while sailing in 20 to 25 knots of wind, close-hauled, with the jib rolled up to its second reef mark, that plate self destructed, cracking into several pieces releasing the jib foil from the furler motor.  I am happy to report the manual furling system does work, after a fashion.  


I haven’t had the chance to disassemble things yet to see if other damage occurred as well which might have either caused, or been caused by, the plate failure.


Anybody see this failure before? Other than it’s old and showed signs of corrosion, which is certainly sufficient to be the primary cause, anybody have another potential cause I should look out for?


Bill Kinney

SM#160, Harmonie

Chesapeake Bay, VA, USA



SM Jib Furler Failure.

greatketch@...
 

In the SM jib furler, there is an aluminum plate that transfers the torque from the motor to the foil via the release pin.  It has one large hole in it that accepts the release pin, and smaller holes which take machine screws down into the rotating part of the motor.


Yesterday while sailing in 20 to 25 knots of wind, close-hauled, with the jib rolled up to its second reef mark, that plate self destructed, cracking into several pieces releasing the jib foil from the furler motor.  I am happy to report the manual furling system does work, after a fashion.  


I haven’t had the chance to disassemble things yet to see if other damage occurred as well which might have either caused, or been caused by, the plate failure.


Anybody see this failure before? Other than it’s old and showed signs of corrosion, which is certainly sufficient to be the primary cause, anybody have another potential cause I should look out for?


Bill Kinney

SM#160, Harmonie

Chesapeake Bay, VA, USA



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bonding

karkauai
 

The engine should be bonded separately from the CDrive.

Kent

On Sep 22, 2016, at 8:37 AM, sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

How is the Cdrive & engine protected , if it not connected to the bonding system. With the silver anode the electrician had a reading over 1000 mv at the C-Drive, and at the strap 804. With the battery connection off, everything off it was 804 , with everything on ,still 804 . I suppose the 804 could be explain by poor zinc/bolt contact and the test being conducted in fresh water. If the engine is not grounded / bonded , how is it protected?

Thanks ,

Pat SM 123


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bonding

karkauai
 

Hi Pat.  It sounds like your drive connection to the bonding system has failed.  Do you have a prop zinc?  On Kristy the connection to the bonding system is at one of the bolts on the housing at the top of the vertical drive shaft.  Around -1000mv hull potential is correct for your boat.  Your 804 (I assume really -804mv) reading indicates under protection of the whole system, so I would first check the connections between the strap and the rudder.  I hope you'll find something there, as that would be the simplest thing to fix.  If they are all OK, you'll need to check connections of the zincs to the rudder.  Only way I know to do that is haul the boat out and check continuity from the zinc to the rudder post.  I guess you could remove the zincs and wire brush the bolts and bottle brush the bolt holes with a SS or Brass brush if you can find one.

Let us know what you find.

Kent
SM243
Kristy

On Sep 22, 2016, at 8:37 AM, sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

How is the Cdrive & engine protected , if it not connected to the bonding system. With the silver anode the electrician had a reading over 1000 mv at the C-Drive, and at the strap 804. With the battery connection off, everything off it was 804 , with everything on ,still 804 . I suppose the 804 could be explain by poor zinc/bolt contact and the test being conducted in fresh water. If the engine is not grounded / bonded , how is it protected?

Thanks ,

Pat SM 123


Bonding

Patrick McAneny
 

How is the Cdrive & engine protected , if it not connected to the bonding system. With the silver anode the electrician had a reading over 1000 mv at the C-Drive, and at the strap 804. With the battery connection off, everything off it was 804 , with everything on ,still 804 . I suppose the 804 could be explain by poor zinc/bolt contact and the test being conducted in fresh water. If the engine is not grounded / bonded , how is it protected?

Thanks ,

Pat SM 123


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] No power to SSB

karkauai
 

I don't have the same converter, but I have had other converters fail due to a blown fuse.  I suspect yours has a fuse as well.  If the rocker switch wasn't accidentally turned off (the timing suggests that your failure may be due to something related to removing your satellite system), I'd look for a fuse next.

Kent Robertson
SM 243
Kristy

On Sep 21, 2016, at 11:31 PM, sailor63109@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

As a result of removing a hardwired satellite broadband phone/internet system from Wanderer, I now have no power to the SSB.  The Broadband system was wired to the breaker for the SSB in the hanging locker.  After I had the wiring for it removed I checked the SSB and no power.  So I put the wiring back that had fed the Broadband and still no joy.


I started checking tonight to see if I could trace it down and found that I have no power coming out of the Mastervolt 24/12V converter in the locker below the nav desk.  There is 24V power coming to the converter.  There is no on/off switch on the units (I found the user manual on line and it agrees).  


Anybody have an idea why the 24/12Volt converter isn't working?


Thanks,

Duane

Wanderer

SM#477


Re: AC earth on SM and SN

Herbert Lackner
 

Hi Enio,

understood.

On KALI MERA the connection from AC-ground to the bonding was original (at least it seems so and would make sense), do not know how it is on the other Santorins, but I think it will be the same. Maybe Olivier can jump in and tell us how it really is..  there was also a post from olivier where he explained it in detail.

regarding battery charging: we have 500AH lead acid batteries, we take out not more than 150AH before recharging. Maximal Ampere for charging ist 80A (battery charger can deviler 200A) and that only for a short period, then goes down to ~ 50A.  I have a quite sophisticated battery management with genset, solar panels, shaft alternator and engine and monitor in detail for each device what goes into the battery and what takes energy and try to treat my batteries as good as possible.  Maybe your batteries accept more current than mine.  On KALI MERA a 100A alternator would have marginal impact on charging times and efficiency compared to a 60A  alternator.

fair winds, herbert
KALI MERA, SN120, Trinidad


Re: AC earth on SM and SN

rossienio@...
 

Hi Herbert,my genset Fischer Panda does not function properly. I bought one Sterling ProALTc (alternator to battery charger) that improves the charge of the batteries (AGM) from the alternator. This loads 80A, I therefore decided to also put alternator 80 or 100A. Fair winds.
P.S. The wire that connects the AC ground to the bonding system (above the galley) is on all Santorin or you put it???


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] No power to SSB

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Duane,

I just saw your photo...Mastervolt, not Icom.

I assume the converter is bad.

Bill
BeBe 387

On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 4:24 AM, Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...> wrote:
Duane,

BeBe has a large Icom 24VDC to 12VDC converter installed below the Nav Table and connected to that breaker. There is a small rocker switch on the front of that converter. When you find it, it may be on and still no power. That rocker switch is problematic. I know of several failures.

Maybe this helps you...look again.

Bill
BeBe 387

On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 3:31 AM, sailor63109@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

As a result of removing a hardwired satellite broadband phone/internet system from Wanderer, I now have no power to the SSB.  The Broadband system was wired to the breaker for the SSB in the hanging locker.  After I had the wiring for it removed I checked the SSB and no power.  So I put the wiring back that had fed the Broadband and still no joy.


I started checking tonight to see if I could trace it down and found that I have no power coming out of the Mastervolt 24/12V converter in the locker below the nav desk.  There is 24V power coming to the converter.  There is no on/off switch on the units (I found the user manual on line and it agrees).  


Anybody have an idea why the 24/12Volt converter isn't working?


Thanks,

Duane

Wanderer

SM#477




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] No power to SSB

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Duane,

BeBe has a large Icom 24VDC to 12VDC converter installed below the Nav Table and connected to that breaker. There is a small rocker switch on the front of that converter. When you find it, it may be on and still no power. That rocker switch is problematic. I know of several failures.

Maybe this helps you...look again.

Bill
BeBe 387

On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 3:31 AM, sailor63109@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

As a result of removing a hardwired satellite broadband phone/internet system from Wanderer, I now have no power to the SSB.  The Broadband system was wired to the breaker for the SSB in the hanging locker.  After I had the wiring for it removed I checked the SSB and no power.  So I put the wiring back that had fed the Broadband and still no joy.


I started checking tonight to see if I could trace it down and found that I have no power coming out of the Mastervolt 24/12V converter in the locker below the nav desk.  There is 24V power coming to the converter.  There is no on/off switch on the units (I found the user manual on line and it agrees).  


Anybody have an idea why the 24/12Volt converter isn't working?


Thanks,

Duane

Wanderer

SM#477



New file uploaded to amelyachtowners

amelyachtowners@...
 

Hello,


This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the amelyachtowners
group.


File : /SV Wanderer/IMG_1367.JPG
Uploaded by : sailor63109 <sailor63109@yahoo.com>
Description : For reference, these are the converters that have 24 volts "in" and no volts "out".


You can access this file at the URL:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/amelyachtowners/files/SV%20Wanderer/IMG_1367.JPG


To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
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Regards,


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No power to SSB

Duane Siegfri
 

As a result of removing a hardwired satellite broadband phone/internet system from Wanderer, I now have no power to the SSB.  The Broadband system was wired to the breaker for the SSB in the hanging locker.  After I had the wiring for it removed I checked the SSB and no power.  So I put the wiring back that had fed the Broadband and still no joy.


I started checking tonight to see if I could trace it down and found that I have no power coming out of the Mastervolt 24/12V converter in the locker below the nav desk.  There is 24V power coming to the converter.  There is no on/off switch on the units (I found the user manual on line and it agrees).  


Anybody have an idea why the 24/12Volt converter isn't working?


Thanks,

Duane

Wanderer

SM#477