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Re: Pickling watermaker

amelliahona <no_reply@...>
 

Hi All:   The last reply is correct, in that the propylene glycol (NOT to be confused with ethylene glycol) antifreeze solution is too large of a molecule to penetrate the RO (reverse osmosis)  membranes.  

You should NOT raise the pressure in the system while circulating the anti-freeze solution.   Only the water that the propylene glycol is diluted in will penetrate the membrane NOT the antifreeze.

You have to think of your system as two separate loops;  A) the seawater side that includes the sea-chest, sea-water manifold,  low pressure feed pump, pre-filters, high pressure pump, sea-water side of the membranes and housing, control panel plumbing with the pressure knob and associated plumbing, and the brine water rejection plumbing to overboard, and B) the fresh water side of the membranes, the control panel plumbing with the diverter valve, and the lines to the fresh water tank.  

As you probably know I am against using meta-bisulfite for storage.  It is corrosive and damages all metal parts.  When using propylene glycol for winterization (anti-freeze protection) you need to protect both sides of the system.  To protect the sea water side circulate the antifreeze solution thru the system WITHOUT RAISING THE PRESSURE.  After having done that THEN using a syringe or other means of injecting some antifreeze solution flush the fresh water side by disconnecting the fresh water (product water) line at the membranes, allowing the membranes to drain, and then injecting some of the propylene glycol solution into the membrane cavity and thru the product water line.  I would guess that only about 3 or 4 ounces of the antifreeze injected down the product water lines will be adequate as it is a small bore line  and even less will fill the RO membrane center tube (disclaimer I haven't actually winterized my boat but see this:  


Note insert dots and slashes where indicated.

West Marine also has some information on their products for winterizing on their web site.

While there is no way to treat the entire fresh water contents of the membrane cavity (this isn't a loop that you can flush), the center product water tube will drain and you can back flush some antifreeze into that tube.  There isn't a great deal of fresh water volume in there anyway.  So let the fresh water side drain from the membranes, then fill as best you can with concentrated antifreeze then re-connect the already flushed product water tubing to membranes fresh water line.  The bulk of the volume of the cavity is filled with the membranes and the sea water volume.  If what little fresh water there is in the cavity freezes it won't burst or damage the membranes as there is room for expansion provided by the sea-water side which won't freeze. That is my theory at least, as there is no way to circulate propylene glycol thru the fresh water side of the membranes.   

Hope this helps. 

Sincerely, 

Gary S. Silver    s/v Liahona   Amel SM 2000  Hull # 335 
Currently in Puerto Rico at Puerto Del Rey Marina


 
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Fresh Water Pump & Circuit - appropriate operating pressure?

SV Perigee
 

Great.  Thanks to you all.  On to it (and 1,001 other miscellaneous To Do's)

PS - we did leave the boat jobs for a day on Tuesday and actually got out sailing .  Oh, what a feeling . . .





Re: Pickling watermaker

Thomas Peacock
 

Hi Pat,
My (imperfect) understanding is that the propylene glycol would be too large to fit through the membranes. I would just flush with no pressure. The desaleteur manual says no pressure, but that's for the metabisulfite solution. 
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Pickling watermaker

Ann-Sofie Svanberg <kanalmamman@...>
 

Is that good for you membrans?

 

/Annsofie

S/Y Lady Annila SM232, 1998

 

 

Skickades från E-post för Windows 10

 

Från: sailw32@... [amelyachtowners]
Skickat: den 20 oktober 2016 14:33
Till: amelyachtowners@...
Ämne: [Amel Yacht Owners] Pickling watermaker

 

 

I need to pickle my watermaker , I will be using potable antifreeze with glycol. When I start the watermaker ,it will start pumping in the antifreeze . My question is should I turn up the pressure regulator and pump it through with pressure on the unit or pump it through with no pressure.

Thanks,

Pat SM#123
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] 55' Amel

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

John,

I have only owned a Super Maramu...a 2003 model. I am a huge fan of Amel.

I will attempt to tell you my limited understanding of the comparison...hopefully I will not ramble too much, but appologies if I do:
As an Amel SM 53 owner, my first reaction to the 55 was, "...what are they crazy, what the heck are they thinking?" It was such a departure from what I thought of Amel that it did not immediately compute to me. Most of the reason for my impression was the fault of Amel management...they overlooked using the power of Amel owners to introduce a new product. In this day and time, that was a big mistake, one that could be corrected, but is still overlooked.

The 55 is more of a different boat than the previous Amel models and the 55 has not been accepted by previous owners as much as the previous models were. Of course, this stands to reason because with each model progression prior to the 55, the new models carried over 'tried and true' Henri Amel designs mostly with a blind eye to change. I could argue that this was very good, but if you asked me to argue the other side, I could argue that it was bad. This is something that regrettably Amel did a poor job of. In their defense, they had never made a design change as radical as the 55 and maybe they simply did not realize how to "launch a really new product."

The 55 has a completely different keel than the 53 or 54 which allows it to point better and sail faster. This means the freshwater is relocated and the water gauge is missing. The 55 has batteries stored in the cabin sole in a watertight compartment rather than above the waterline in a water tight compartment as in the 53 and 54...there are advantages to either design...we were accustomed to the latter. The rigging is inside the life line to make it point better and sail faster. The rudder is further back making it turn faster and it allows the rudder gear and autopilots to be in a compartment inside the rear lazarette. If you like galleys and galley conveniences, you will love the 55. The freeboard is higher giving the 55 more interior room and volume. The cockpit is deeper for greater protection, but it is more difficult to get in and out of as compared to the 53 & 54. The table in the cockpit is great, but it requires extra steps to get in the engine room.

I think the 55 is a yacht that is something like a sailing yacht that Oyster would make if they wanted to knock-off Amel. I also think that Amel management did a terrible job of utilizing the power of probably at least 1,000 Amel owners to promote the 55. Amel could have pitched the 55 and all of its changes, features and benefits to Amel Owners around the world, and some of us could have helped the launch of the 55. But they ignore us...or at the very least, they ignore me.

Maybe you should email Dimitris Krasopoulos <dkrasopoulos@...>. He has owned several Amels including 53 and 54. He has been looking closely at the 55. He may have what you are looking for.

I think that you will see more negative remarks from 53 and 54 owners than you will from new Amel 55 owners, but hopefully my explanation above will explain that and you can take that into consideration.

I hope this helps you.

Bill
BeBe 387

On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 6:32 AM, John Folino jfolino901@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

I am interested in hearing reports from owners of the Amel 55' versus the SM 53' which I have previously owned from 2001 to 2014 SM #347 Sulajon, I am interested in any quirks that seem to be common amongst the 55'?
John Folino
Pickling watermaker

Patrick McAneny
 

I need to pickle my watermaker , I will be using potable antifreeze with glycol. When I start the watermaker ,it will start pumping in the antifreeze . My question is should I turn up the pressure regulator and pump it through with pressure on the unit or pump it through with no pressure.

Thanks,

Pat SM#123
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Air transportation of COPPERCOAT

Mike Johnson
 

Hi Donato,

Further to my previous message.  The information you require for transportation is in the following link:


Very best wishes

Mike & Peta

Solitude
SM 2K 461
_____________________________

From: BT mike.k.johnson@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2016 1:26 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Air transportation of COPPERCOAT
To: <amelyachtowners@...>


 

Hi Donato,

Copper Coat will be able to give you the exact details of any issues with low temperature.  However, the temperature experienced in the holds of passenger aeroplanes are normally around 15C and rarely below 10C unless there has been a technical problem in which case they can reach lower temperatures depending on the flight time.

It would be sensible to also consult Copper Coat in respect of the Dangerous Goods Category of the materials you are transporting.  Without this you might find the airline refusing to carry the materials or even worse off-loading your luggage when it goes through security checks.  Also tell the airline what is in your baggage.

Very best wishes

Mike & Peta

Solitude
SM 2K 461
_____________________________
From: Donato Valente ing.d.valente@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2016 11:34 am
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Air transportation of COPPERCOAT
To: <amelyachtowners@...>


 

Hi,
We need to bring some Coppercoat kits in our forthcoming flight from Italy to Central America. I've been told that the material, of course as hold luggage, may suffer for a long trip at low temperatures and get deteriorated.
Does someone can confirm ?
Thank you
Donato 

Amel sm2000 
#468 ocean bird 
Panama 



Inviato da iPhone
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Air transportation of COPPERCOAT

Mike Johnson
 

Hi Donato,

Copper Coat will be able to give you the exact details of any issues with low temperature.  However, the temperature experienced in the holds of passenger aeroplanes are normally around 15C and rarely below 10C unless there has been a technical problem in which case they can reach lower temperatures depending on the flight time.

It would be sensible to also consult Copper Coat in respect of the Dangerous Goods Category of the materials you are transporting.  Without this you might find the airline refusing to carry the materials or even worse off-loading your luggage when it goes through security checks.  Also tell the airline what is in your baggage.

Very best wishes

Mike & Peta

Solitude
SM 2K 461
_____________________________

From: Donato Valente ing.d.valente@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2016 11:34 am
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Air transportation of COPPERCOAT
To: <amelyachtowners@...>


 

Hi,
We need to bring some Coppercoat kits in our forthcoming flight from Italy to Central America. I've been told that the material, of course as hold luggage, may suffer for a long trip at low temperatures and get deteriorated.
Does someone can confirm ?
Thank you
Donato 

Amel sm2000 
#468 ocean bird 
Panama 



Inviato da iPhone
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Instal AC / Genset on Santorin

Stephen Davis
 

Our boat came with an 8kw Fischer Panda installed by her previous owner in 2005. This would not of been my choice, but with that said, it has been a reliable generator. We had 1100 hours on the clock in 2014 when we purchased Aloha, and @ 1350 now. Other than routine maintenance, I've had a hose develop a pin hole leak, and broke the alternator/water pump belt due to old age. 

My 8kw Fischer Panda has a very reliable 2 cylinder Kubota engine, but the Achilles heel of these generators are the overly complicated electronics...German Engineering? I have 6 large capacitors in a control box, and I do carry a full set of spares. So far, no issues with any of the electronics. From the best I can tell, the 4kw FP with a Fairyman diesel seems to have most of the issues, but my 8kw, not so much. 

If space is a big issue, your options are more limited, and the FP is one of several small options. Rumor has it, that FP has cleaned up their act, and improved the reliability in recent years. If space is no issue, I'd probably pick a Northern Lights generator. Of several generator techs I've spoken to in recent years, the Northern Lights seems to be their favorite for simple reliability. If I should ever have to replace my FP, I would pick the Northern Lights. 

Steve Davis
Aloha SM72
Carriacou

On Oct 20, 2016, at 06:22, Germain Jean-Pierre jgermain@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

According to a German marine friend of mine, a Panda is like buying headaches.


No one needs them.


Jean-Pierre Germain
SY Eleuthera, SM 007.



On 20 Oct 2016, at 11:05, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Good morning,
Are you happy with your Fisher Panda?
All the people I met that own one (including a Fisher Panda dealer) complained about it… mainly once you exceed 1000 hour it stop working or repair are not worth it…
Sincerely, Alexandre

--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 10/20/16, rossienio@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Instal AC / Genset on Santorin
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Thursday, October 20, 2016, 2:45 AM


 









Good morning Trevor. A Fischer Panda genny (4KVA)
is installed in EARENDIL over 10 years. It has direct
cooling (sea water) and this creates some problems. Try to
put one with heat exchanger.









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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Air transportation of COPPERCOAT

Germain Jean-Pierre <jgermain@...>
 

Hello Donato,

Ask Ewan at coppercoat; he will give you the correct info.   ewan at coppercoat dot com


GL

Jean-Pierre Germain
SY Eleuthera, SM 007


On 20 Oct 2016, at 11:28, Donato Valente ing.d.valente@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi,
We need to bring some Coppercoat kits in our forthcoming flight from Italy to Central America. I've been told that the material, of course as hold luggage, may suffer for a long trip at low temperatures and get deteriorated.
Does someone can confirm ?
Thank you
Donato 

Amel sm2000 
#468 ocean bird 
Panama 



Inviato da iPhone

Posted by: Donato Valente <ing.d.valente@...>
Reply via web post • Reply to sender • Reply to group • Start a New Topic • Messages in this topic (1)
Have you tried the highest rated email app?
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55' Amel

John Folino <jfolino901@...>
 

I am interested in hearing reports from owners of the Amel 55' versus the SM 53' which I have previously owned from 2001 to 2014 SM #347 Sulajon, I am interested in any quirks that seem to be common amongst the 55'?
John Folino
Air transportation of COPPERCOAT

Donato Valente
 

Hi,
We need to bring some Coppercoat kits in our forthcoming flight from Italy to Central America. I've been told that the material, of course as hold luggage, may suffer for a long trip at low temperatures and get deteriorated.
Does someone can confirm ?
Thank you
Donato 

Amel sm2000 
#468 ocean bird 
Panama 



Inviato da iPhone
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Instal AC / Genset on Santorin

Germain Jean-Pierre <jgermain@...>
 

According to a German marine friend of mine, a Panda is like buying headaches.

No one needs them.


Jean-Pierre Germain
SY Eleuthera, SM 007.



On 20 Oct 2016, at 11:05, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Good morning,
Are you happy with your Fisher Panda?
All the people I met that own one (including a Fisher Panda dealer) complained about it… mainly once you exceed 1000 hour it stop working or repair are not worth it…
Sincerely, Alexandre

--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 10/20/16, rossienio@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Instal AC / Genset on Santorin
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Thursday, October 20, 2016, 2:45 AM


 









Good morning Trevor. A Fischer Panda genny (4KVA)
is installed in EARENDIL over 10 years. It has direct
cooling (sea water) and this creates some problems. Try to
put one with heat exchanger.









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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Instal AC / Genset on Santorin

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Good morning,
Are you happy with your Fisher Panda?
All the people I met that own one (including a Fisher Panda dealer) complained about it… mainly once you exceed 1000 hour it stop working or repair are not worth it…
Sincerely, Alexandre



--------------------------------------------

On Thu, 10/20/16, rossienio@yahoo.com [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Instal AC / Genset on Santorin
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, October 20, 2016, 2:45 AM


 









Good morning Trevor. A Fischer Panda genny (4KVA)
is installed in EARENDIL over 10 years. It has direct
cooling (sea water) and this creates some problems. Try to
put one with heat exchanger.









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Re: Instal AC / Genset on Santorin

enio rossi
 

Sorry, the message was no complete.
We use the AC to the washing machine, oven,battery recharge and all small appliances. Really very convenient.  Good wind.
 EnioRossi
#SN122 EARENDIL
Italy
Re: Instal AC / Genset on Santorin

enio rossi
 

Good morning Trevor. A Fischer Panda genny (4KVA) is installed in EARENDIL over 10 years. It has direct cooling (sea water) and this creates some problems. Try to put one with heat exchanger.
Re: Instal AC / Genset on Santorin

Ian Park
 

Trevor
No AC but I did consider the genset. In the end the cost and upkeep put me off. I bought a 2000 watt petrol generator instead. It runs the mains battery charger if I need it and any mains voltage I require. The prop alternator and solar panels keeps things going well enough. My reasoning was that I could buy 5 petrol generators for the price of a diesel installation. I can also use it hauled out as it isn't seawater cooled.

However if you do install AC then I would think a genset is a must.

Ian

Ocean Hobo SN96
Instal AC / Genset on Santorin

tfortner1975
 

Hello all,


Has any of the SN owners ever installed an AC and Genset? 

Just looking to see what others have done in the last and possibly gain some lessons learnt by others. 


Thanks heaps. 


Trevor 

Iris, SN027

Langkawi 
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] companionway door slot & hurricane Matthew

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Duane,

The water you found does not drain into the engine room. If water gets into the compartment under the companionway, you have to pump it out, or suck it out with a wet vac.

I am going to take a guess that the insulation is wet near the pump on the wall above the gray water bilge...the pump that pumps out the gray water. Go down there and look closely in that area while someone else flushes each of the toilets. There is an anti-siphon loop near that pump. It will get encrusted with salt and spray the wall.

That's my first guess, if this is not the source, check hose clamps on everything in the area. And watch the area with systems running like AC, toilet water pumps, freshwater pump and the watermaker. You could have a high pressure pinhole leak in a watermaker hose.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail


On Oct 19, 2016 4:41 PM, "sailor63109@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

After hurricane Mathew we noticed that the companionway door slot had a substantial amount of water in it.  I poked around with a wire and was unable to find a drain hole.  Can someone tell me where the drain is?  (Port, STBD, or in the middle?)


This might answer why I have wet sound insulation on the engine room FWD bulkhead, seemingly all the time.  I thought I had found the reason when we noticed the dishwasher (which we never use) had sinkwater backed up into it.  We eliminated the dishwasher.

If there is another reason for the wet sound insulation, please educate me!

Thanks,
Duane
Wanderer, SM#477
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Windlass bolt to deck

eric freedman
 

Bill,

Glad it worked,

You might also invest in the purple cobalt drills from McMaster Carr they are made especially for drilling stainless. They are not inexpensive but I keep them on board when all else fails. I also use the dam technique when drilling stainless and fill it with drilling oil for stainless also from McMaster.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2016 3:51 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Windlass bolt to deck

 

 

Eric,

 

Another success for your dam technique!  Thanks for the suggestion.

 

I had a 5mm machine screw that I had almost given up on getting out in one piece. Not only was it a stainless screw corroded into aluminum, but it had also been sheared, and was bent, jamming the threads for that extra measure of difficulty. And it’s not big enough to really lean on without breaking.  Oil, heat, pressure, over and over, and not so much as a wiggle.

 

I didn’t have any “duct seal” so I improvised by making a stiff dough of flour and water for the dam. It wasn’t perfect, but it worked. After twenty-four hours of soaking in a puddle of PB Blaster, the screw backed out easily.  I can see using this often in my future.

 

Bill Kinney

SM #160, Harmonie

Annapolis, MD

“Ships and men rot in port."

 

 

 

 

On Oct 17, 2016, at 22:26, 'sailormon' kimberlite@... melyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

I have had great success over the years removing stuck and broken bolts in this manner:

I use a clay like substance called here in the USA Duct Seal.

I build up a small dam around the offending bolts and fill the dam with PB blaster for a week. The bolts almost always are loose by that time if not I continue the process eventually they come out.

It is also important to try to turn the bolt in both directions to spread the PB blaster.

When I re install them I use a paste called never seize high temperature. It is especially good on the outhaul shaft.

Works like a charm.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] 
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2016 8:48 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Windlass bolt to deck

 

  

Mike,

Danny's thru-bolt solution sounds good and the drilling, as he points out, will be the key to success. With the good amount of bolt you've got left above deck you may want to try removing it before you go to drilling it out, even though it may shear off. After a good soaking with penetrants (use some acid too, to attack the salts) you may be able to lock two nuts on top to screw it out. If or when that fails you could weld a short bolt of the same diameter to the broken end and use the new bolts hex head to turn. The welding heat may also help break the threads free. If still no joy,you're likely into drilling it out,. Here's a great link to using tread inserts after drilling out the bolt. https://racemagazine.com.au/cars/thread-repair-how-to-fix-broken-bolts-and-stripped-threads

Good luck with it,

Craig Briggs, SN68 Sangaris. 



---In amelyachtowners@..., <simms@...> wrote :

Hi mike. I drilled mine out and put a bolt through. I now have a nut top and bottom
I  lost a lot of sweat and blunted several drills in the process. If you can get a cobalt drill they cut stainless much better than the standard. I didn't have one, as always I was fixing a boat in an exotic location.
Cheers
Danny
SM 299 ocean pearl
Sent from my Vodafone Smart

On Oct 17, 2016 4:33 AM, "'Mike Ondra' mdondra@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

[Attachment(s) from Mike Ondra included below]

As others may have experienced with removing the windlass from the deck, 3 of the 4 bolts were easily removed. The aft starboard bolt is threaded into the deck (no visible nut and probably into a glassed in steel plate). In fact in the bow locker there is rust stain coming through the fiberglass deck and also all along the hawse pipe.

 

In attempting removal the bolt head sheared off leaving a stud about 1” above the deck as pictured above (assuming picture goes with email. I am afraid that continuing to attempt to remove the remaining bole will simply result in shearing off at the deck line. My question is what have others done in this situation?

 

I can envision finding a coupling that could be used but would require an enlargement of the bolt hole in the windlass base thereby weakening it. The stud could be cut off and the windlass moved slightly with new holes for all bolts.

 

Thoughts?

 

Mike Ondra

Aletes SM#240

Rock Hall, MD

 

 

 
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