Date   

Re: Help - 5-Year Plan

devaxmangor@...
 

Thank you for the kind welcome Jean-Pierre,

Love your pride in owning the most expensive Amel in the world! lol Thank you for sharing your expensive experience with me. I will definitely be taking that to heart and adjusting my preference to #1. 

And I'm sure that your extensive list is probably not even comprehensive to what you did. Wow! 

Thanks for the cruisers thread link. I have been lurking in the shadows but hadn't found that one.

Take care,

Rick Gutierrez


Re: Help - 5-Year Plan

devaxmangor@...
 

Thank you Pat. Yes, one of the many reasons that I know that an Amel is the way to go is because you can clearly see that most, if not all available on the market are in very good condition. In fact, I don't think I've seen one for sale that was in disrepair. That tells me a lot about pride of ownership and the type of people who own Amel boats.

Thanks.


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Antenna Mystery

Jean Boucharlat
 

Daniela & Fernando,

 

Many thanks for your very informative comments. I learned something today.

So far I had never seen any two masted lateen rigged boat with a “maroccain” and I thought that it would make tacking more difficult. I stand corrected and happy to have been corrected.

Jean Boucharlat
Formerly SM 232

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: vendredi 11 novembre 2016 15:50
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Antenna Mystery

 

 

 

MAROCCHINO in Italian, MAROCAIN in French, MARROQUÌ (?) in Spanish (sorry we do not know the other Mediterranean languages names of the "TRIATIC STAY").

It has origin on boats with typical gaff sails of the Moroccan coasts. Bearing in mind that the "Moroccan Coast" in the past was the coast from Tunisia to Morocco today and before that the same sea area was known as Libya.

 

In that time, an ordinary gaff rigged sail boat had the mainmast and foremast with jib(s). 

Moroccans sailors noticed that a boat with two masts and jibs, when riding high seas, due to the natural sagging of the hull, was working the two masts and their sails unevenly. To overcome the inconvenience, they thought to integrate the two masts using crossing lines that did not disturb the natural function of the sails but that allowed the effort to be divided more or less evenly over all maneuvers.

 

Considering that at the time the main mast was aft, actually the "marocchino/marocain/marroquì" was born as a "spring stay", but today everybody only uses the term "triatic stay", in our knowledge.

 

There is not notice about the year of the beginning of the use of the "marocchino" but  "triatic stay" appeared in the English language only around the middle of 19th.

 

Best Regards,

 

Daniela & Fernando

s/y Nefeli SM #38, currently in Rodney Bay - St. Lucia

 

 

 

 

 

On 09 Nov 2016, at 21:42, 'Jean Boucharlat' jean.boucharlat@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:



 

 

I am (very much) an amateur when it comes to boats and must admit that I am baffled by our use , in French, of the “marocain” word (also spelled “maroquin”) to designate a triatic stay. My bafflement comes from the fact that the better known Morocan boats were the “Galère” (Galley in English) and the “Chebec”, both two masted, like schooners, but neither one of them rigged with a “Marocain”.

If anyone has an answer I’m interested to read it, to the extent that it doesn’t bore other members of the forum.

 

Concerning your small antenna on the mizzen, I had one installed by the yard on my SM 232 in order to, hopefully, have a spare one in case the main mast would collapse. Maybe the yard kept installing them on subsequent SMs.

 

Jean Boucharlat

Formerly SM 232

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: mercredi 9 novembre 2016 13:15
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Antenna Mystery

 

 

I am an amateur linguist (of English, which of course has countless words of French origin due to the fact that the rulers of Normandy conquered England in 1066).

I assume that the triatic stay is so-named in French because the Moroccan boats utilized them a lot in their native craft?

 

Merci beaucoup for your helpful answer.

 

Still trying to figure out the small antenna on the mizzen, will trace it some more when back on the boat. Do other SM owners have a VHF-like antenna on the mizzen, or is an add-on on my boat?

 

Tom Peacock

SM Aletes 240

St Augustine, Florida

 

 

On Nov 9, 2016, at 3:03 AM, 'Jean Boucharlat' jean.boucharlat@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

« Marocain » in French nauticalese is « triatic stay »

 

Jean Boucharlat

Formerly SM 232

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] 
Sent: mardi 8 novembre 2016 22:43
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Antenna Mystery

 

  

We recently noticed that our VHF could not be heard for more than about half a kilometer. This prompted the usual investigations, and I believe a bad connector at the base on the main mast was the culprit. All seems well for now.

While investigating I noticed that we have two "VHF" type antennas on the main mast: one for the VHF, and one for FM radio (so labeled by the Amel grey sleeve over the wire). However, there is also a "VHF" appearing antenna on the mizzen. We do have a triatic stay antenna and a stern whip antenna for SSB and SSB weatherfax, but this is clearly a VHF appearing antenna on the mizzen. 

In tracing the mizzen wiring, a cable that looks like it could be coaxial comes down the mast, but I could not trace it further without much difficulty. It is labeled with the Amel factory style grey sleeve, reading "MAROCAIN".

Consulting my French to English dictionary, MAROCAIN translates as "Moroccan" (citizen of Morocco).

 

Two questions: 

Any idea about the mystery label "MAROCAIN"?

What is the VHF style antenna on the mizzen?

 

Thanks as always,

Tom Peacock

SM Aletes #240

St Augustine, Florida

 

 

 

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Help - 5-Year Plan

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

I believe that you are on the right track. Some of your items are low and some are high. You left out running rigging that is almost always in need of replacement in 15+ year old boats. You did not include refrigeration updates, replacement or repair. You did not include new upholstery. You omitted AC and other appliance repair...clothes washer, dish washer, stove, etc.

I believe that you should look for the very best owner when buying an Amel, and that Amel will have not only been maintained, but will be ready to go. I believe that any owner that has let an Amel deteriorate to the project boat you described will be selling a boat with a lot of unknown problems. You mentioned Mark and Cindy. Who ever buys Cream Puff when they are ready to sell will be buying a fine Amel, even if they sell in 5 to 10 years.

With my limited experience I believe that all Amel Super Maramus of a certain age sell for about the same price. Note, I said "sell." Then there are some that sell for low prices. I have seen 4 or 5 of these low priced SMs and none were close to being worth the price they sold for. You can believe me, follow what I suggest, or go buy a cheap Amel. If you do as I suggest and find the best owner, in the near-term you will buy the cheapest SM. If you buy a project boat and do it with no Amel knowledge, you will buy the most expensive SM that you can find.

Good luck and I hope that this helps you.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail


On Nov 11, 2016 2:29 PM, "Rick Gutierrez devaxmangor@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hello All,

I must first apologize for the long and rambling message. I tend to think out loud when I write and it helps me put things in logical order. In order to help you ignore the rest of this message if this does not interest you here goes the short version - complete noob’s 5-year plan to retire and get boat to travel. I am in desperate need of anyone’s advice, warnings, and experiences to increase the chances of a successful journey.

Background
50-year old who got the green light from my wonderful wife (after a few cocktails) to explore getting a sail boat to travel after our youngest son (two older girls, one a freshman at U. of Oregon, other a Junior in HS) makes it to college - 5 years from now (he is an 8th grader). Neither of us has ANY sailing experience whatsoever, but I am capable and willing. I am somewhat of an obsessive/compulsive and love to learn. Rather spend my time reading/watching/researching then watching TV at night. Have currently spent well over 300 hours over the past 40 days doing so and counting. I am a hands-on tinkerer and feel confident to be able to do most/if not all work on boat with proper documentation/assistance. 

Current Location
Southern California (Moorpark to be precise). Nearest harbor is Ventura/Oxnard.

Goals
Learn! Starting to look at the local options for instruction and opportunity to sail. 
  1. Looks like starting off at a local public sponsored school/club would be a solid way of getting feet wet. 
  2. Considering joining a sail club with shared maintenance responsibilities and crewing opportunities. A few local options for that (any locals with insight much appreciated). Both also have full ASA courses which I plan to take as many as possible.
  3. Take all types of classes possible (did I mention I love learning) including all safety and first aid courses (already Wilderness First Aid trained due to extensive outdoor Boy Scout volunteer work as well as a rock climbing instructor courses). 
  4. Also take any USCG classes available that would be of value (any advice here would be appreciated).
  5. Purchase boat in 4-5 years and get her ready.
  6. Sail and live-aboard for at least one year locally to see if it works for wife and I before taking the adventure to the next level. If it doesn’t work out - sell boat and take the loss as a learning experience. If it does workout, awesome! 
  7. Do coastal cruising for at least 1 or 2 years before extending range. Wife not too comfortable in wanting to try long passages, so hope to grow her into comfort zone, if not crew boat and have her meet at destination.
  8. etc.

Boat
The reason I am here is I have decided that the Amel SuperMaramu/Maramu is the boat of preference for us. If anyone has another suggestion, I am all ears.

I started looking at steel and aluminum boats due to safety concerns. I want my wife to feel comfortable and confident and the more I can minimize risk, the more comfortable she will feel. I have not found steel/aluminum boat that I liked or that was in a reasonable price range. I do not feel comfortable with self-built boats (i.e. Roberts).

Came across the Amel boats through CreamPuff (thanks for that Mark & Cindy) and agree with their well thought out reasoning for purchasing. So I will not repeat it here. Besides, I think I would be preaching to the choir! 

If anyone has any other boat that fits that criteria that they would recommend - please let me know (don’t really care for the Hans-Christians).

Budget
We are planning on a $250,000 budget for the boat (not accounting for inflation). I might be able to push the budget to $300K, just depends on how our investments do over the course of the next 4-5 years. 

Here are the two approaches as I see it:

1 - Purchase the newest Amel that fits our budget, then repair/replace as little gear as possible to not bust the budget.

2 - Purchase an older Amel (post ’96?) and completely replace all critical gear and update and try to not bust the budget!

I am more inclined to #2 because I think the hands-on process of replacing all critical gear would be invaluable for later on. I have no fear of putting in new engine, new generator, watermaker, electronics, standing gear, etc. etc. etc. Especially due to the nature of the quality build of the Amel, I also am not too concerned with purchasing an older boat (am I way off here?).

If we choose to do #2, would the following be a good rule of thumb on costs?:

New Yanmar 100 HP engine and install - $20K (a little cushion for ancillary and miscellaneous costs)
New Onan Generator - $15K
Watermaker/Desalinator - $5K
Standing Rigging - $7K
Sails - $15K
New Electronics/navionics - $20K
New Batteries - $3K
Bilge pumps - $3K
Additional Miscellaneous - $15K???

I know I can probably rebuilt some of these, and might depending on condition, but might as well plan for the total package. Is there something major that I am missing? I know there is, just don’t know enough to know enough! ;)

So looks like our boat budget will be REALLY tight!

Traveling Budget
Using the 4% rule, we can safely be in the range that S/V Bebe has recorded and shared (thank you so much for that Bill and Judy - you rock!). I am a numbers cruncher and their spreadsheet has been an invaluable resource. We will have enough of a cushion left over, so I feel fortunate and blessed that we can realistically do this. Fingers crossed that our investments remain healthy over the next phase of inflation that is invariably coming.

If you have read this far - Thank you. I know that this list needs to be expanded by a factor of 10! Any advice or changes would be very much appreciated. My feeling will not get hurt if you tell me that I am totally way off and am totally clueless because I know I am! In the rock climbing community, the common reply to most any posts is usually “Yer gonna die!”, so I’m used to it! ;)

Anyway, thank you for your patience and for any help in anticipation. Cheers!

Rick Gutierrez






Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Help - 5-Year Plan

Germain Jean-Pierre <jgermain@...>
 

Hello Rick,

You’ve spent time with the grey matter in gear obviously.  But first: WELCOME HERE.

As a group, we are not particularly biased but we analyzed our needs in much the same way as you did.

I will only comment on your Budget … I chose option 2 and I now own the most expensive Amel SM in the world!  Trust me on this one. (I should have followed the Collector car rule… buy a car that has been rebuilt already).  However, being fully rebuilt in 2014/15 means she is very updated while trying to continue in the Amel tradition.  Some changes we made:

- New liners throughout.
- New SS gantry/Davits/Solar panels.  
- New double sea chest.
- Rebuilt gearboxes/motors on all sail handling equipment.
- New galley with keel cooled 2 drawer refrigerator (great decision)
- New Bimini and complete enclosure
- New soft goods throughout the boat
- New bilge water pump
- New electronics (Raymarine)
- Dessalator DUO 100 liter/hr 24V/220V (2 motors)
- New 3 zone Webasto reverse cycle AC/Heat.  Kept the system simpler than adding a diesel heater.  

We did not change the engine as it had 550 hours since new (Volvo TDM22 … (which is quieter than Yanmar IMO).  No change to the genset either as less than 400 hours.

There is a long running thread on Cruiser’s Forum where various Amel owners attempt to answer various questions.  You may want to look at it…  http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f47/difference-between-amel-models-137037.html

Best of luck in your search,

Jean-Pierre Germain
SY Eleuthera, SM 007 in Lanzarote… going to Guadeloupe in early Dec.



On 11 Nov 2016, at 18:26, Rick Gutierrez devaxmangor@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hello All,

I must first apologize for the long and rambling message. I tend to think out loud when I write and it helps me put things in logical order. In order to help you ignore the rest of this message if this does not interest you here goes the short version - complete noob’s 5-year plan to retire and get boat to travel. I am in desperate need of anyone’s advice, warnings, and experiences to increase the chances of a successful journey.

Background
50-year old who got the green light from my wonderful wife (after a few cocktails) to explore getting a sail boat to travel after our youngest son (two older girls, one a freshman at U. of Oregon, other a Junior in HS) makes it to college - 5 years from now (he is an 8th grader). Neither of us has ANY sailing experience whatsoever, but I am capable and willing. I am somewhat of an obsessive/compulsive and love to learn. Rather spend my time reading/watching/researching then watching TV at night. Have currently spent well over 300 hours over the past 40 days doing so and counting. I am a hands-on tinkerer and feel confident to be able to do most/if not all work on boat with proper documentation/assistance. 

Current Location
Southern California (Moorpark to be precise). Nearest harbor is Ventura/Oxnard.

Goals
Learn! Starting to look at the local options for instruction and opportunity to sail. 
  1. Looks like starting off at a local public sponsored school/club would be a solid way of getting feet wet. 
  2. Considering joining a sail club with shared maintenance responsibilities and crewing opportunities. A few local options for that (any locals with insight much appreciated). Both also have full ASA courses which I plan to take as many as possible.
  3. Take all types of classes possible (did I mention I love learning) including all safety and first aid courses (already Wilderness First Aid trained due to extensive outdoor Boy Scout volunteer work as well as a rock climbing instructor courses). 
  4. Also take any USCG classes available that would be of value (any advice here would be appreciated).
  5. Purchase boat in 4-5 years and get her ready.
  6. Sail and live-aboard for at least one year locally to see if it works for wife and I before taking the adventure to the next level. If it doesn’t work out - sell boat and take the loss as a learning experience. If it does workout, awesome! 
  7. Do coastal cruising for at least 1 or 2 years before extending range. Wife not too comfortable in wanting to try long passages, so hope to grow her into comfort zone, if not crew boat and have her meet at destination.
  8. etc.

Boat
The reason I am here is I have decided that the Amel SuperMaramu/Maramu is the boat of preference for us. If anyone has another suggestion, I am all ears.

I started looking at steel and aluminum boats due to safety concerns. I want my wife to feel comfortable and confident and the more I can minimize risk, the more comfortable she will feel. I have not found steel/aluminum boat that I liked or that was in a reasonable price range. I do not feel comfortable with self-built boats (i.e. Roberts).

Came across the Amel boats through CreamPuff (thanks for that Mark & Cindy) and agree with their well thought out reasoning for purchasing. So I will not repeat it here. Besides, I think I would be preaching to the choir! 

If anyone has any other boat that fits that criteria that they would recommend - please let me know (don’t really care for the Hans-Christians).

Budget
We are planning on a $250,000 budget for the boat (not accounting for inflation). I might be able to push the budget to $300K, just depends on how our investments do over the course of the next 4-5 years. 

Here are the two approaches as I see it:

1 - Purchase the newest Amel that fits our budget, then repair/replace as little gear as possible to not bust the budget.

2 - Purchase an older Amel (post ’96?) and completely replace all critical gear and update and try to not bust the budget!

I am more inclined to #2 because I think the hands-on process of replacing all critical gear would be invaluable for later on. I have no fear of putting in new engine, new generator, watermaker, electronics, standing gear, etc. etc. etc. Especially due to the nature of the quality build of the Amel, I also am not too concerned with purchasing an older boat (am I way off here?).

If we choose to do #2, would the following be a good rule of thumb on costs?:

New Yanmar 100 HP engine and install - $20K (a little cushion for ancillary and miscellaneous costs)
New Onan Generator - $15K
Watermaker/Desalinator - $5K
Standing Rigging - $7K
Sails - $15K
New Electronics/navionics - $20K
New Batteries - $3K
Bilge pumps - $3K
Additional Miscellaneous - $15K???

I know I can probably rebuilt some of these, and might depending on condition, but might as well plan for the total package. Is there something major that I am missing? I know there is, just don’t know enough to know enough! ;)

So looks like our boat budget will be REALLY tight!

Traveling Budget
Using the 4% rule, we can safely be in the range that S/V Bebe has recorded and shared (thank you so much for that Bill and Judy - you rock!). I am a numbers cruncher and their spreadsheet has been an invaluable resource. We will have enough of a cushion left over, so I feel fortunate and blessed that we can realistically do this. Fingers crossed that our investments remain healthy over the next phase of inflation that is invariably coming.

If you have read this far - Thank you. I know that this list needs to be expanded by a factor of 10! Any advice or changes would be very much appreciated. My feeling will not get hurt if you tell me that I am totally way off and am totally clueless because I know I am! In the rock climbing community, the common reply to most any posts is usually “Yer gonna die!”, so I’m used to it! ;)

Anyway, thank you for your patience and for any help in anticipation. Cheers!

Rick Gutierrez







Jean-Pierre Germain,
+44 7551 211 511
jp.germain@...


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Help - 5-Year Plan

Patrick McAneny
 

Rick, Without getting too long winded , I would just say that most Amel owners keep their boats in very good condition and ready to go. Do not be concerned too much about the age , because an older Amel is just as capable as a newer one , once again its all about the condition . I think your estimate of costs involved to replace items are probably close on some items and rather high on others. In my opinion most of those expenditures would not be necessary , because you would be able to find an Amel well maintained and ready to go ,regardless of age. I have a 1994 SM , and I would not hesitate to go out to my mooring right now ,get on my boat and sail anywhere. Most are kept ready to go , because Amel owners plan to go , and do go. $250,000 will buy you a very nice boat , you will not find a finer boat for the money.
Good Luck,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Gutierrez devaxmangor@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Fri, Nov 11, 2016 1:29 pm
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Help - 5-Year Plan

 
Hello All,

I must first apologize for the long and rambling message. I tend to think out loud when I write and it helps me put things in logical order. In order to help you ignore the rest of this message if this does not interest you here goes the short version - complete noob’s 5-year plan to retire and get boat to travel. I am in desperate need of anyone’s advice, warnings, and experiences to increase the chances of a successful journey.

Background
50-year old who got the green light from my wonderful wife (after a few cocktails) to explore getting a sail boat to travel after our youngest son (two older girls, one a freshman at U. of Oregon, other a Junior in HS) makes it to college - 5 years from now (he is an 8th grader). Neither of us has ANY sailing experience whatsoever, but I am capable and willing. I am somewhat of an obsessive/compulsive and love to learn. Rather spend my time reading/watching/researching then watching TV at night. Have currently spent well over 300 hours over the past 40 days doing so and counting. I am a hands-on tinkerer and feel confident to be able to do most/if not all work on boat with proper documentation/assistance. 

Current Location
Southern California (Moorpark to be precise). Nearest harbor is Ventura/Oxnard.

Goals
Learn! Starting to look at the local options for instruction and opportunity to sail. 
  1. Looks like starting off at a local public sponsored school/club would be a solid way of getting feet wet. 
  2. Considering joining a sail club with shared maintenance responsibilities and crewing opportunities. A few local options for that (any locals with insight much appreciated). Both also have full ASA courses which I plan to take as many as possible.
  3. Take all types of classes possible (did I mention I love learning) including all safety and first aid courses (already Wilderness First Aid trained due to extensive outdoor Boy Scout volunteer work as well as a rock climbing instructor courses). 
  4. Also take any USCG classes available that would be of value (any advice here would be appreciated).
  5. Purchase boat in 4-5 years and get her ready.
  6. Sail and live-aboard for at least one year locally to see if it works for wife and I before taking the adventure to the next level. If it doesn’t work out - sell boat and take the loss as a learning experience. If it does workout, awesome! 
  7. Do coastal cruising for at least 1 or 2 years before extending range. Wife not too comfortable in wanting to try long passages, so hope to grow her into comfort zone, if not crew boat and have her meet at destination.
  8. etc.

Boat
The reason I am here is I have decided that the Amel SuperMaramu/Maramu is the boat of preference for us. If anyone has another suggestion, I am all ears.

I started looking at steel and aluminum boats due to safety concerns. I want my wife to feel comfortable and confident and the more I can minimize risk, the more comfortable she will feel. I have not found steel/aluminum boat that I liked or that was in a reasonable price range. I do not feel comfortable with self-built boats (i.e. Roberts).

Came across the Amel boats through CreamPuff (thanks for that Mark & Cindy) and agree with their well thought out reasoning for purchasing. So I will not repeat it here. Besides, I think I would be preaching to the choir! 

If anyone has any other boat that fits that criteria that they would recommend - please let me know (don’t really care for the Hans-Christians).

Budget
We are planning on a $250,000 budget for the boat (not accounting for inflation). I might be able to push the budget to $300K, just depends on how our investments do over the course of the next 4-5 years. 

Here are the two approaches as I see it:

1 - Purchase the newest Amel that fits our budget, then repair/replace as little gear as possible to not bust the budget.

2 - Purchase an older Amel (post ’96?) and completely replace all critical gear and update and try to not bust the budget!

I am more inclined to #2 because I think the hands-on process of replacing all critical gear would be invaluable for later on. I have no fear of putting in new engine, new generator, watermaker, electronics, standing gear, etc. etc. etc. Especially due to the nature of the quality build of the Amel, I also am not too concerned with purchasing an older boat (am I way off here?).

If we choose to do #2, would the following be a good rule of thumb on costs?:

New Yanmar 100 HP engine and install - $20K (a little cushion for ancillary and miscellaneous costs)
New Onan Generator - $15K
Watermaker/Desalinator - $5K
Standing Rigging - $7K
Sails - $15K
New Electronics/navionics - $20K
New Batteries - $3K
Bilge pumps - $3K
Additional Miscellaneous - $15K???

I know I can probably rebuilt some of these, and might depending on condition, but might as well plan for the total package. Is there something major that I am missing? I know there is, just don’t know enough to know enough! ;)

So looks like our boat budget will be REALLY tight!

Traveling Budget
Using the 4% rule, we can safely be in the range that S/V Bebe has recorded and shared (thank you so much for that Bill and Judy - you rock!). I am a numbers cruncher and their spreadsheet has been an invaluable resource. We will have enough of a cushion left over, so I feel fortunate and blessed that we can realistically do this. Fingers crossed that our investments remain healthy over the next phase of inflation that is invariably coming.

If you have read this far - Thank you. I know that this list needs to be expanded by a factor of 10! Any advice or changes would be very much appreciated. My feeling will not get hurt if you tell me that I am totally way off and am totally clueless because I know I am! In the rock climbing community, the common reply to most any posts is usually “Yer gonna die!”, so I’m used to it! ;)

Anyway, thank you for your patience and for any help in anticipation. Cheers!

Rick Gutierrez






Help - 5-Year Plan

Rick Gutierrez <devaxmangor@...>
 

Hello All,

I must first apologize for the long and rambling message. I tend to think out loud when I write and it helps me put things in logical order. In order to help you ignore the rest of this message if this does not interest you here goes the short version - complete noob’s 5-year plan to retire and get boat to travel. I am in desperate need of anyone’s advice, warnings, and experiences to increase the chances of a successful journey.

Background
50-year old who got the green light from my wonderful wife (after a few cocktails) to explore getting a sail boat to travel after our youngest son (two older girls, one a freshman at U. of Oregon, other a Junior in HS) makes it to college - 5 years from now (he is an 8th grader). Neither of us has ANY sailing experience whatsoever, but I am capable and willing. I am somewhat of an obsessive/compulsive and love to learn. Rather spend my time reading/watching/researching then watching TV at night. Have currently spent well over 300 hours over the past 40 days doing so and counting. I am a hands-on tinkerer and feel confident to be able to do most/if not all work on boat with proper documentation/assistance. 

Current Location
Southern California (Moorpark to be precise). Nearest harbor is Ventura/Oxnard.

Goals
Learn! Starting to look at the local options for instruction and opportunity to sail. 
  1. Looks like starting off at a local public sponsored school/club would be a solid way of getting feet wet. 
  2. Considering joining a sail club with shared maintenance responsibilities and crewing opportunities. A few local options for that (any locals with insight much appreciated). Both also have full ASA courses which I plan to take as many as possible.
  3. Take all types of classes possible (did I mention I love learning) including all safety and first aid courses (already Wilderness First Aid trained due to extensive outdoor Boy Scout volunteer work as well as a rock climbing instructor courses). 
  4. Also take any USCG classes available that would be of value (any advice here would be appreciated).
  5. Purchase boat in 4-5 years and get her ready.
  6. Sail and live-aboard for at least one year locally to see if it works for wife and I before taking the adventure to the next level. If it doesn’t work out - sell boat and take the loss as a learning experience. If it does workout, awesome! 
  7. Do coastal cruising for at least 1 or 2 years before extending range. Wife not too comfortable in wanting to try long passages, so hope to grow her into comfort zone, if not crew boat and have her meet at destination.
  8. etc.

Boat
The reason I am here is I have decided that the Amel SuperMaramu/Maramu is the boat of preference for us. If anyone has another suggestion, I am all ears.

I started looking at steel and aluminum boats due to safety concerns. I want my wife to feel comfortable and confident and the more I can minimize risk, the more comfortable she will feel. I have not found steel/aluminum boat that I liked or that was in a reasonable price range. I do not feel comfortable with self-built boats (i.e. Roberts).

Came across the Amel boats through CreamPuff (thanks for that Mark & Cindy) and agree with their well thought out reasoning for purchasing. So I will not repeat it here. Besides, I think I would be preaching to the choir! 

If anyone has any other boat that fits that criteria that they would recommend - please let me know (don’t really care for the Hans-Christians).

Budget
We are planning on a $250,000 budget for the boat (not accounting for inflation). I might be able to push the budget to $300K, just depends on how our investments do over the course of the next 4-5 years. 

Here are the two approaches as I see it:

1 - Purchase the newest Amel that fits our budget, then repair/replace as little gear as possible to not bust the budget.

2 - Purchase an older Amel (post ’96?) and completely replace all critical gear and update and try to not bust the budget!

I am more inclined to #2 because I think the hands-on process of replacing all critical gear would be invaluable for later on. I have no fear of putting in new engine, new generator, watermaker, electronics, standing gear, etc. etc. etc. Especially due to the nature of the quality build of the Amel, I also am not too concerned with purchasing an older boat (am I way off here?).

If we choose to do #2, would the following be a good rule of thumb on costs?:

New Yanmar 100 HP engine and install - $20K (a little cushion for ancillary and miscellaneous costs)
New Onan Generator - $15K
Watermaker/Desalinator - $5K
Standing Rigging - $7K
Sails - $15K
New Electronics/navionics - $20K
New Batteries - $3K
Bilge pumps - $3K
Additional Miscellaneous - $15K???

I know I can probably rebuilt some of these, and might depending on condition, but might as well plan for the total package. Is there something major that I am missing? I know there is, just don’t know enough to know enough! ;)

So looks like our boat budget will be REALLY tight!

Traveling Budget
Using the 4% rule, we can safely be in the range that S/V Bebe has recorded and shared (thank you so much for that Bill and Judy - you rock!). I am a numbers cruncher and their spreadsheet has been an invaluable resource. We will have enough of a cushion left over, so I feel fortunate and blessed that we can realistically do this. Fingers crossed that our investments remain healthy over the next phase of inflation that is invariably coming.

If you have read this far - Thank you. I know that this list needs to be expanded by a factor of 10! Any advice or changes would be very much appreciated. My feeling will not get hurt if you tell me that I am totally way off and am totally clueless because I know I am! In the rock climbing community, the common reply to most any posts is usually “Yer gonna die!”, so I’m used to it! ;)

Anyway, thank you for your patience and for any help in anticipation. Cheers!

Rick Gutierrez






Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Antenna Mystery

smnefeli
 


MAROCCHINO in Italian, MAROCAIN in French, MARROQUÌ (?) in Spanish (sorry we do not know the other Mediterranean languages names of the "TRIATIC STAY").
It has origin on boats with typical gaff sails of the Moroccan coasts. Bearing in mind that the "Moroccan Coast" in the past was the coast from Tunisia to Morocco today and before that the same sea area was known as Libya.

In that time, an ordinary gaff rigged sail boat had the mainmast and foremast with jib(s). 
Moroccans sailors noticed that a boat with two masts and jibs, when riding high seas, due to the natural sagging of the hull, was working the two masts and their sails unevenly. To overcome the inconvenience, they thought to integrate the two masts using crossing lines that did not disturb the natural function of the sails but that allowed the effort to be divided more or less evenly over all maneuvers.

Considering that at the time the main mast was aft, actually the "marocchino/marocain/marroquì" was born as a "spring stay", but today everybody only uses the term "triatic stay", in our knowledge.

There is not notice about the year of the beginning of the use of the "marocchino" but  "triatic stay" appeared in the English language only around the middle of 19th.

Best Regards,

Daniela & Fernando
s/y Nefeli SM #38, currently in Rodney Bay - St. Lucia





On 09 Nov 2016, at 21:42, 'Jean Boucharlat' jean.boucharlat@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 

I am (very much) an amateur when it comes to boats and must admit that I am baffled by our use , in French, of the “marocain” word (also spelled “maroquin”) to designate a triatic stay. My bafflement comes from the fact that the better known Morocan boats were the “Galère” (Galley in English) and the “Chebec”, both two masted, like schooners, but neither one of them rigged with a “Marocain”.

If anyone has an answer I’m interested to read it, to the extent that it doesn’t bore other members of the forum.

 

Concerning your small antenna on the mizzen, I had one installed by the yard on my SM 232 in order to, hopefully, have a spare one in case the main mast would collapse. Maybe the yard kept installing them on subsequent SMs.

 

Jean Boucharlat

Formerly SM 232

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: mercredi 9 novembre 2016 13:15
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Antenna Mystery

 

 

I am an amateur linguist (of English, which of course has countless words of French origin due to the fact that the rulers of Normandy conquered England in 1066).

I assume that the triatic stay is so-named in French because the Moroccan boats utilized them a lot in their native craft?

 

Merci beaucoup for your helpful answer.

 

Still trying to figure out the small antenna on the mizzen, will trace it some more when back on the boat. Do other SM owners have a VHF-like antenna on the mizzen, or is an add-on on my boat?

 

Tom Peacock

SM Aletes 240

St Augustine, Florida

 

 

On Nov 9, 2016, at 3:03 AM, 'Jean Boucharlat' jean.boucharlat@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

« Marocain » in French nauticalese is « triatic stay »

 

Jean Boucharlat

Formerly SM 232

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] 
Sent: mardi 8 novembre 2016 22:43
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Antenna Mystery

 

  

We recently noticed that our VHF could not be heard for more than about half a kilometer. This prompted the usual investigations, and I believe a bad connector at the base on the main mast was the culprit. All seems well for now.

While investigating I noticed that we have two "VHF" type antennas on the main mast: one for the VHF, and one for FM radio (so labeled by the Amel grey sleeve over the wire). However, there is also a "VHF" appearing antenna on the mizzen. We do have a triatic stay antenna and a stern whip antenna for SSB and SSB weatherfax, but this is clearly a VHF appearing antenna on the mizzen. 

In tracing the mizzen wiring, a cable that looks like it could be coaxial comes down the mast, but I could not trace it further without much difficulty. It is labeled with the Amel factory style grey sleeve, reading "MAROCAIN".

Consulting my French to English dictionary, MAROCAIN translates as "Moroccan" (citizen of Morocco).

 

Two questions: 

Any idea about the mystery label "MAROCAIN"?

What is the VHF style antenna on the mizzen?

 

Thanks as always,

Tom Peacock

SM Aletes #240

St Augustine, Florida

 

 




Re: 24VDC Gas Solenoid Valve

svperegrinus@yahoo.com
 

Thanks Bill for the model info.

Last year in La Rochelle we requested a spare but were told they did not have any and not to worry these never break down!

I'll be ordering one.

Cheerio,

Peregrinus
SM2K Nr. 350
At anchor, Venice


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] jib car track forward end

Stephen Davis
 

Mike,

Sounds like a great plan. We lived a few miles from St Augustine for many years, and really enjoy the town. Hope we get to meet up one of these days. 

Steve

On Nov 10, 2016, at 13:54, 'Mike Ondra' mdondra@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Steve,

Aletes is spending the winter in Florida. Mooring ball in St. Augustine with trips up and down the Florida Atlantic coast and maybe Bahamas.

Mike

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2016 7:51 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] jib car track forward end

 

 

Thanks Mike...that will save me a lot of time. I'll be back in the USA in December, and can pick it up then. Are you heading south this year?

 

Steve


On Nov 10, 2016, at 07:39, 'Mike Ondra' mdondra@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Steve. Ordered from Euro Marine in Newport, RI 401-849-0060 (very helpful). Their invoice listed it as ANT PARTS Genoa Car “Amel” Euro 232.

Mike Ondra

Aletes SM#240

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2016 5:42 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] jib car track forward end

 

 

Hi Mike,

 

Would you mind passing along all the part numbers you had to order, as mine need replacing as well.

 

Thanks,

 

Steve Davis

Aloha SM72

Grenada


On Nov 9, 2016, at 21:12, 'Mike Ondra' mdondra@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Bill,

I talked with Antal in Italy directly and they had the exact replacement car with the bales on both ends. It sounded like it was a custom configuration just for Amel, but they had a supply in stock. They had me order through their US distributor, Euro Marine Trading, and had it to me in 2 weeks. Shipping from Italy was prorated among other items from Antal to Euro and only cost me $29. Cars were $260 each.

Mike

Aletes SM#240

St. Augustine

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2016 6:47 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] jib car track forward end

 

 

Mike,

 

Can’t help you with specifics, I have not had to go there (yet!)…  but your problem inspired me to look closely at my own boat to see what I can see...

 

The cabinetry our our boat runs out to the hull, and up to the deck. No false backs, just hull and deck covered with fabric. When I carefully feel the fabric liner under the deck I find a space at the hull deck joint where there is nothing above the fabric.  I imagine careful peeling of the liner fabric will allow reveal the space where your lost nut has gone to hide.

 

But I do hope somebody else who has ACTUALLY been in there can give you more specific guidance. 

 

Do let us know what you find!

 

By the way, what did you find for a replacement jib car?

 

Bill Kinney

SM #160, Harmonie

Hilton Head Island, SC

“Ships and men rot in port."

 

 

 

 

On Nov 9, 2016, at 17:40, 'Mike Ondra' mdondra@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Due to a car failure we are replacing the Antal jib car. To slide the old car off and new car on we had to remove the forward termination block. This was secured by a 3 inch or so eye bolt. Unscrewing didn’t generate much progress, but with considerable upforce (boom and block and tackle) it was eventually coaxed out.

 

However in reassembly the bolt threads are not catching anything. In fact even without the block in place the bolt simply drops to the deck.

 

The drawing showing the crossection indicates a bent plate backer, presumably with tapped holes,

behind the fiberglass into which the stanchions and jib track are screwed. The area under this appears inaccessible behind the saloon cabinets.

 

The eye bolt extraction required a significant amount of up force and one could imagine there was a nut in the other end that was being held in place by the up force until fully unscrewed. An inaccessible nut does not comport with the quality of Amel design.

 

Has anyone had experience with this bolt? Was there a nut on the other end? Any insights or solutions?

 

Mike Ondra

Aletes SM#240

St. Augustine, FL

 

 

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] jib car track forward end

Mike Ondra
 

Steve,

Aletes is spending the winter in Florida. Mooring ball in St. Augustine with trips up and down the Florida Atlantic coast and maybe Bahamas.

Mike

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2016 7:51 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] jib car track forward end

 

 

Thanks Mike...that will save me a lot of time. I'll be back in the USA in December, and can pick it up then. Are you heading south this year?

 

Steve


On Nov 10, 2016, at 07:39, 'Mike Ondra' mdondra@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Steve. Ordered from Euro Marine in Newport, RI 401-849-0060 (very helpful). Their invoice listed it as ANT PARTS Genoa Car “Amel” Euro 232.

Mike Ondra

Aletes SM#240

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2016 5:42 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] jib car track forward end

 

 

Hi Mike,

 

Would you mind passing along all the part numbers you had to order, as mine need replacing as well.

 

Thanks,

 

Steve Davis

Aloha SM72

Grenada


On Nov 9, 2016, at 21:12, 'Mike Ondra' mdondra@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Bill,

I talked with Antal in Italy directly and they had the exact replacement car with the bales on both ends. It sounded like it was a custom configuration just for Amel, but they had a supply in stock. They had me order through their US distributor, Euro Marine Trading, and had it to me in 2 weeks. Shipping from Italy was prorated among other items from Antal to Euro and only cost me $29. Cars were $260 each.

Mike

Aletes SM#240

St. Augustine

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2016 6:47 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] jib car track forward end

 

 

Mike,

 

Can’t help you with specifics, I have not had to go there (yet!)…  but your problem inspired me to look closely at my own boat to see what I can see...

 

The cabinetry our our boat runs out to the hull, and up to the deck. No false backs, just hull and deck covered with fabric. When I carefully feel the fabric liner under the deck I find a space at the hull deck joint where there is nothing above the fabric.  I imagine careful peeling of the liner fabric will allow reveal the space where your lost nut has gone to hide.

 

But I do hope somebody else who has ACTUALLY been in there can give you more specific guidance. 

 

Do let us know what you find!

 

By the way, what did you find for a replacement jib car?

 

Bill Kinney

SM #160, Harmonie

Hilton Head Island, SC

“Ships and men rot in port."

 

 

 

 

On Nov 9, 2016, at 17:40, 'Mike Ondra' mdondra@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Due to a car failure we are replacing the Antal jib car. To slide the old car off and new car on we had to remove the forward termination block. This was secured by a 3 inch or so eye bolt. Unscrewing didn’t generate much progress, but with considerable upforce (boom and block and tackle) it was eventually coaxed out.

 

However in reassembly the bolt threads are not catching anything. In fact even without the block in place the bolt simply drops to the deck.

 

The drawing showing the crossection indicates a bent plate backer, presumably with tapped holes,

behind the fiberglass into which the stanchions and jib track are screwed. The area under this appears inaccessible behind the saloon cabinets.

 

The eye bolt extraction required a significant amount of up force and one could imagine there was a nut in the other end that was being held in place by the up force until fully unscrewed. An inaccessible nut does not comport with the quality of Amel design.

 

Has anyone had experience with this bolt? Was there a nut on the other end? Any insights or solutions?

 

Mike Ondra

Aletes SM#240

St. Augustine, FL

 

 

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] jib car track forward end

Stephen Davis
 

Thanks Mike...that will save me a lot of time. I'll be back in the USA in December, and can pick it up then. Are you heading south this year?

Steve

On Nov 10, 2016, at 07:39, 'Mike Ondra' mdondra@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Steve. Ordered from Euro Marine in Newport, RI 401-849-0060 (very helpful). Their invoice listed it as ANT PARTS Genoa Car “Amel” Euro 232.

Mike Ondra

Aletes SM#240

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2016 5:42 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] jib car track forward end

 

 

Hi Mike,

 

Would you mind passing along all the part numbers you had to order, as mine need replacing as well.

 

Thanks,

 

Steve Davis

Aloha SM72

Grenada


On Nov 9, 2016, at 21:12, 'Mike Ondra' mdondra@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Bill,

I talked with Antal in Italy directly and they had the exact replacement car with the bales on both ends. It sounded like it was a custom configuration just for Amel, but they had a supply in stock. They had me order through their US distributor, Euro Marine Trading, and had it to me in 2 weeks. Shipping from Italy was prorated among other items from Antal to Euro and only cost me $29. Cars were $260 each.

Mike

Aletes SM#240

St. Augustine

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2016 6:47 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] jib car track forward end

 

 

Mike,

 

Can’t help you with specifics, I have not had to go there (yet!)…  but your problem inspired me to look closely at my own boat to see what I can see...

 

The cabinetry our our boat runs out to the hull, and up to the deck. No false backs, just hull and deck covered with fabric. When I carefully feel the fabric liner under the deck I find a space at the hull deck joint where there is nothing above the fabric.  I imagine careful peeling of the liner fabric will allow reveal the space where your lost nut has gone to hide.

 

But I do hope somebody else who has ACTUALLY been in there can give you more specific guidance. 

 

Do let us know what you find!

 

By the way, what did you find for a replacement jib car?

 

Bill Kinney

SM #160, Harmonie

Hilton Head Island, SC

“Ships and men rot in port."

 

 

 

 

On Nov 9, 2016, at 17:40, 'Mike Ondra' mdondra@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Due to a car failure we are replacing the Antal jib car. To slide the old car off and new car on we had to remove the forward termination block. This was secured by a 3 inch or so eye bolt. Unscrewing didn’t generate much progress, but with considerable upforce (boom and block and tackle) it was eventually coaxed out.

 

However in reassembly the bolt threads are not catching anything. In fact even without the block in place the bolt simply drops to the deck.

 

The drawing showing the crossection indicates a bent plate backer, presumably with tapped holes,

behind the fiberglass into which the stanchions and jib track are screwed. The area under this appears inaccessible behind the saloon cabinets.

 

The eye bolt extraction required a significant amount of up force and one could imagine there was a nut in the other end that was being held in place by the up force until fully unscrewed. An inaccessible nut does not comport with the quality of Amel design.

 

Has anyone had experience with this bolt? Was there a nut on the other end? Any insights or solutions?

 

Mike Ondra

Aletes SM#240

St. Augustine, FL

 

 

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] 24VDC Gas Solenoid Valve

VLADIMIR SONSEV
 

US company ASCO Red- Hat also makes good solenoid valves for 24 or 12 V. I use valve with manual override. Manual override is good safety option. You can operate the valve if solenoid does not work.


On Nov 9, 2016 4:57 PM, "Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Thanks for the information Bill,

Just added to my list of spare parts to get when I go to Martinique (mid 2017).

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Harbor View Marina, Tortola, BVI

--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 11/9/16, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] 24VDC Gas Solenoid Valve
To: "amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, November 9, 2016, 3:54 PM


 









The high-quality German made 24VDC
Gas Solenoid Valve (Burkert Gas Valve Type 6013 G1/4 3.0
024/DC Item Number 125 301) is a wonderfully made and a
long-lasting valve that Henri Amel spec'd on the Super
Maramu and I believe Amel uses on all current
models.
It is
difficult to find because you will not find it at normal
chandeliers or places like West Marine, Budget Marine, or
Defender. Ours lasted 13 years when it stopped working. I am
picking up a new one at Amel Caribe in Martinique tomorrow.
It is probably around 100 euro.
I suggest that every Amel owner
have as a spare a 1/4" NPT union to use in an
emergency. A union pipe fitting is female threaded on each
end and used to join two pieces of pipe. You will find
1/4" male brass fittings attached to the input and the
output side of the 24VDC solenoid valve. The union will
replace the electric solenoid valve and require you to
manually turn ON & OFF the gas.
I hope this helps some of you and
saves you some time.
BillBeBe 387Currently Rodney Bay, St Lucia,
soon le Marin, Martinique



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] jib car track forward end

Mike Ondra
 

Hi Steve. Ordered from Euro Marine in Newport, RI 401-849-0060 (very helpful). Their invoice listed it as ANT PARTS Genoa Car “Amel” Euro 232.

Mike Ondra

Aletes SM#240

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2016 5:42 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] jib car track forward end

 

 

Hi Mike,

 

Would you mind passing along all the part numbers you had to order, as mine need replacing as well.

 

Thanks,

 

Steve Davis

Aloha SM72

Grenada


On Nov 9, 2016, at 21:12, 'Mike Ondra' mdondra@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Bill,

I talked with Antal in Italy directly and they had the exact replacement car with the bales on both ends. It sounded like it was a custom configuration just for Amel, but they had a supply in stock. They had me order through their US distributor, Euro Marine Trading, and had it to me in 2 weeks. Shipping from Italy was prorated among other items from Antal to Euro and only cost me $29. Cars were $260 each.

Mike

Aletes SM#240

St. Augustine

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2016 6:47 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] jib car track forward end

 

 

Mike,

 

Can’t help you with specifics, I have not had to go there (yet!)…  but your problem inspired me to look closely at my own boat to see what I can see...

 

The cabinetry our our boat runs out to the hull, and up to the deck. No false backs, just hull and deck covered with fabric. When I carefully feel the fabric liner under the deck I find a space at the hull deck joint where there is nothing above the fabric.  I imagine careful peeling of the liner fabric will allow reveal the space where your lost nut has gone to hide.

 

But I do hope somebody else who has ACTUALLY been in there can give you more specific guidance. 

 

Do let us know what you find!

 

By the way, what did you find for a replacement jib car?

 

Bill Kinney

SM #160, Harmonie

Hilton Head Island, SC

“Ships and men rot in port."

 

 

 

 

On Nov 9, 2016, at 17:40, 'Mike Ondra' mdondra@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Due to a car failure we are replacing the Antal jib car. To slide the old car off and new car on we had to remove the forward termination block. This was secured by a 3 inch or so eye bolt. Unscrewing didn’t generate much progress, but with considerable upforce (boom and block and tackle) it was eventually coaxed out.

 

However in reassembly the bolt threads are not catching anything. In fact even without the block in place the bolt simply drops to the deck.

 

The drawing showing the crossection indicates a bent plate backer, presumably with tapped holes,

behind the fiberglass into which the stanchions and jib track are screwed. The area under this appears inaccessible behind the saloon cabinets.

 

The eye bolt extraction required a significant amount of up force and one could imagine there was a nut in the other end that was being held in place by the up force until fully unscrewed. An inaccessible nut does not comport with the quality of Amel design.

 

Has anyone had experience with this bolt? Was there a nut on the other end? Any insights or solutions?

 

Mike Ondra

Aletes SM#240

St. Augustine, FL

 

 

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] jib car track forward end

Stephen Davis
 

Hi Mike,

Would you mind passing along all the part numbers you had to order, as mine need replacing as well.

Thanks,

Steve Davis
Aloha SM72
Grenada

On Nov 9, 2016, at 21:12, 'Mike Ondra' mdondra@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Bill,

I talked with Antal in Italy directly and they had the exact replacement car with the bales on both ends. It sounded like it was a custom configuration just for Amel, but they had a supply in stock. They had me order through their US distributor, Euro Marine Trading, and had it to me in 2 weeks. Shipping from Italy was prorated among other items from Antal to Euro and only cost me $29. Cars were $260 each.

Mike

Aletes SM#240

St. Augustine

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2016 6:47 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] jib car track forward end

 

 

Mike,

 

Can’t help you with specifics, I have not had to go there (yet!)…  but your problem inspired me to look closely at my own boat to see what I can see...

 

The cabinetry our our boat runs out to the hull, and up to the deck. No false backs, just hull and deck covered with fabric. When I carefully feel the fabric liner under the deck I find a space at the hull deck joint where there is nothing above the fabric.  I imagine careful peeling of the liner fabric will allow reveal the space where your lost nut has gone to hide.

 

But I do hope somebody else who has ACTUALLY been in there can give you more specific guidance. 

 

Do let us know what you find!

 

By the way, what did you find for a replacement jib car?

 

Bill Kinney

SM #160, Harmonie

Hilton Head Island, SC

“Ships and men rot in port."

 

 

 

 

On Nov 9, 2016, at 17:40, 'Mike Ondra' mdondra@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Due to a car failure we are replacing the Antal jib car. To slide the old car off and new car on we had to remove the forward termination block. This was secured by a 3 inch or so eye bolt. Unscrewing didn’t generate much progress, but with considerable upforce (boom and block and tackle) it was eventually coaxed out.

 

However in reassembly the bolt threads are not catching anything. In fact even without the block in place the bolt simply drops to the deck.

 

The drawing showing the crossection indicates a bent plate backer, presumably with tapped holes,

behind the fiberglass into which the stanchions and jib track are screwed. The area under this appears inaccessible behind the saloon cabinets.

 

The eye bolt extraction required a significant amount of up force and one could imagine there was a nut in the other end that was being held in place by the up force until fully unscrewed. An inaccessible nut does not comport with the quality of Amel design.

 

Has anyone had experience with this bolt? Was there a nut on the other end? Any insights or solutions?

 

Mike Ondra

Aletes SM#240

St. Augustine, FL

 

 

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Antenna Mystery

Alan Leslie
 

This is what we have and it works very well.


Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] jib car track forward end

Mike Ondra
 

Bill,

I talked with Antal in Italy directly and they had the exact replacement car with the bales on both ends. It sounded like it was a custom configuration just for Amel, but they had a supply in stock. They had me order through their US distributor, Euro Marine Trading, and had it to me in 2 weeks. Shipping from Italy was prorated among other items from Antal to Euro and only cost me $29. Cars were $260 each.

Mike

Aletes SM#240

St. Augustine

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2016 6:47 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] jib car track forward end

 

 

Mike,

 

Can’t help you with specifics, I have not had to go there (yet!)…  but your problem inspired me to look closely at my own boat to see what I can see...

 

The cabinetry our our boat runs out to the hull, and up to the deck. No false backs, just hull and deck covered with fabric. When I carefully feel the fabric liner under the deck I find a space at the hull deck joint where there is nothing above the fabric.  I imagine careful peeling of the liner fabric will allow reveal the space where your lost nut has gone to hide.

 

But I do hope somebody else who has ACTUALLY been in there can give you more specific guidance. 

 

Do let us know what you find!

 

By the way, what did you find for a replacement jib car?

 

Bill Kinney

SM #160, Harmonie

Hilton Head Island, SC

“Ships and men rot in port."

 

 

 

 

On Nov 9, 2016, at 17:40, 'Mike Ondra' mdondra@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Due to a car failure we are replacing the Antal jib car. To slide the old car off and new car on we had to remove the forward termination block. This was secured by a 3 inch or so eye bolt. Unscrewing didn’t generate much progress, but with considerable upforce (boom and block and tackle) it was eventually coaxed out.

 

However in reassembly the bolt threads are not catching anything. In fact even without the block in place the bolt simply drops to the deck.

 

The drawing showing the crossection indicates a bent plate backer, presumably with tapped holes,

behind the fiberglass into which the stanchions and jib track are screwed. The area under this appears inaccessible behind the saloon cabinets.

 

The eye bolt extraction required a significant amount of up force and one could imagine there was a nut in the other end that was being held in place by the up force until fully unscrewed. An inaccessible nut does not comport with the quality of Amel design.

 

Has anyone had experience with this bolt? Was there a nut on the other end? Any insights or solutions?

 

Mike Ondra

Aletes SM#240

St. Augustine, FL

 

 

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Antenna Mystery

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Bill,

There are VHF splitters and there are VHF splitters. Not all of them are good.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail


On Nov 9, 2016 7:29 PM, "Bill Kinney greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

On Harmonie we have separate antennae for the VHF and AIS, but on my old ketch I used a splitter to share.  I was skeptical of the splitter, having heard people say bad things about them.  After several years of use, I became a convert.  Neither AIS nor VHF performance suffered in any noticeable way.


The only downside to using a splitter I see, is not having an installed spare antenna for the VHF on the mizzen mast.

On the other hand, I have tried using splitters to share an antenna between VHF and AM/FM radio.  The issue here is that a VHF antenna makes a TERRIBLE AM/FM radio antenna.  Way better to something—anything—else.

Bill Kinney
SM #160, Harmonie
Hilton Head Island, SC
“Ships and men rot in port."





On Nov 9, 2016, at 16:41, divanz620@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Our VHF and AIS share the VHF antenna on the main mast by means of an antenna splitter....it works very well.

Cheers
Alan 
Elyse SM237
sur les plancher des vaches




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] jib car track forward end

Bill Kinney <greatketch@...>
 

Mike,

Can’t help you with specifics, I have not had to go there (yet!)…  but your problem inspired me to look closely at my own boat to see what I can see...

The cabinetry our our boat runs out to the hull, and up to the deck. No false backs, just hull and deck covered with fabric. When I carefully feel the fabric liner under the deck I find a space at the hull deck joint where there is nothing above the fabric.  I imagine careful peeling of the liner fabric will allow reveal the space where your lost nut has gone to hide.

But I do hope somebody else who has ACTUALLY been in there can give you more specific guidance. 

Do let us know what you find!

By the way, what did you find for a replacement jib car?

Bill Kinney
SM #160, Harmonie
Hilton Head Island, SC
“Ships and men rot in port."





On Nov 9, 2016, at 17:40, 'Mike Ondra' mdondra@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Due to a car failure we are replacing the Antal jib car. To slide the old car off and new car on we had to remove the forward termination block. This was secured by a 3 inch or so eye bolt. Unscrewing didn’t generate much progress, but with considerable upforce (boom and block and tackle) it was eventually coaxed out.

 

However in reassembly the bolt threads are not catching anything. In fact even without the block in place the bolt simply drops to the deck.

 

The drawing showing the crossection indicates a bent plate backer, presumably with tapped holes,

behind the fiberglass into which the stanchions and jib track are screwed. The area under this appears inaccessible behind the saloon cabinets.

 

The eye bolt extraction required a significant amount of up force and one could imagine there was a nut in the other end that was being held in place by the up force until fully unscrewed. An inaccessible nut does not comport with the quality of Amel design.

 

Has anyone had experience with this bolt? Was there a nut on the other end? Any insights or solutions?

 

Mike Ondra

Aletes SM#240

St. Augustine, FL

 




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Antenna Mystery

Bill Kinney <greatketch@...>
 

On Harmonie we have separate antennae for the VHF and AIS, but on my old ketch I used a splitter to share.  I was skeptical of the splitter, having heard people say bad things about them.  After several years of use, I became a convert.  Neither AIS nor VHF performance suffered in any noticeable way.

The only downside to using a splitter I see, is not having an installed spare antenna for the VHF on the mizzen mast.

On the other hand, I have tried using splitters to share an antenna between VHF and AM/FM radio.  The issue here is that a VHF antenna makes a TERRIBLE AM/FM radio antenna.  Way better to something—anything—else.

Bill Kinney
SM #160, Harmonie
Hilton Head Island, SC
“Ships and men rot in port."





On Nov 9, 2016, at 16:41, divanz620@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Our VHF and AIS share the VHF antenna on the main mast by means of an antenna splitter....it works very well.

Cheers
Alan 
Elyse SM237
sur les plancher des vaches