Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Changing companionway veneer.

James Alton
 

Eric,

   Many thanks for sending the photos.  Not having to remove the hardtop will save me a lot of time.

Best,

James Alton
SV Sueno,  Maramu #220
Arbatax, Italy

On Dec 2, 2016, at 10:07 PM, 'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


HI Alex and James.

I have just sent you photos of how to replace the veneer on the companionway without removing the dodger.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] 
Sent: Friday, December 02, 2016 8:22 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Changing companionway veneer.

 

  

Eric,

 

   That is an interesting and creative solution to replace part of the veneer, thanks for sharing.  While the idea of having the slider on the bench to work on sounds appealing, your method could sure save me a lot of time over removal of the hardtop that could be delegated to other more important projects.  No rush but when you have the time to send me the photos, it would be great to see.

 

Best,

 

James Alton  Lokiyawl2 at aol.com

SV Sueno,  Maramu #220

Arbatax,  Italy

 

On Dec 1, 2016, at 10:50 PM, 'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

James,

You do not have to remove the sliding companionway or the hard dodger to replace the veneer.

If you send me your email I will send you photos of how I did mine.

Basically you remove the stop at the bottom of the companionway door . Then the door will slide all the way up to the dodger.

You can then use a router to remove the veneer and put new veneer on. Of course what is in the track cannot be changed, but you can’t see it. 

Mine looks beautiful after 5 or 6 years.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] 
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2016 3:12 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Maramu cockpit canopy

 

  

Eric,

 

   The exterior teak veneer has delaminated and I want to replace or reface the panel.   I would also like to improve the exterior seal during this project.  

 

Best,

 

James Alton

SV Sueno,  Maramu #220

Arbatax,  Italy

 

On Dec 1, 2016, at 3:46 PM, 'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

James,

Why are you removing the companionway slider?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:a melyachtowners@...] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2016 10:31 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Maramu cockpit canopy

 

  

 

 

 




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Wearing out bearing

Bill Kinney <greatketch@...>
 

Vladimir,

I think you will find that several people have installed speedi-sleeves on an Amel “wearing-out-bearing” without issue.

Some people have had good luck with them, getting longer life than from the original part, while other have not gotten any extended life from them.  I am not sure why the differences. Maybe the amount of abrasive sediment in the water they sail in?  Maybe they blame the sleeves when it is actually the seal that has failed and the sleeves are just fine.

I am not aware of anyone who has tried them who has reported they were a disaster.

If they wear out, they are easily removed and new ones installed.

They are cheaper and more readily available than the Amel original IF you are in a major industrial port.  If you are “out island” there is no real difference in availability or cost between sourcing an Amel bearing and a set of sleeves.

On my boat I have two spare bearings new from Amel, and two sets of speedi-sleeves.  The bearing in the drive right now has speedi-sleeves on it.  

Bill Kinney
SM #160, Harmonie
On the Hard, Fort Lauderdale, FL
“Ships and men rot in port."






On Dec 2, 2016, at 21:29, Vladimir Sonsev sonsev52@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Hi Crag,

I have reviewed the instructions. Instructions are not applicable for our case.
Instructions recommend to push Speedi sleeves by the flange. It will not work for us. Because the  first sleeve should contact a bushing shoulder by it's edge after the flange is removed. That is additional 2.99 mm. Similar situation is with a second sleeve. It should contact the end of the first sleeve after the flange is removed. Both sleeves have to be pushed for 2.99 mm by force that is applied on a sleeve edge. The edges are very thin. You need a special tool that slides with minimum clerance on the outer edge of the sleeve with a step to smaller diameter that slids on the wear bushing. That tool has to be made. It will cost probubly $100.00 or $200.00. The edge of the sleeve should not be damaged during installation. If sleev's edge is damaged it can cut a seal during installation.
Perhaps Speedi sleeve option is not practical in our application because sleeve's installation has to deviat from SKF instructions. 

Vladimir
SM # 345




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Wearing out bearing

Eric Freedman
 

Vladimir

I had no problem installing the sleeves. I did not need any special tools.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, December 02, 2016 9:29 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Wearing out bearing

 

 

Hi Crag,

I have reviewed the instructions. Instructions are not applicable for our case.
Instructions recommend to push Speedi sleeves by the flange. It will not work for us. Because the  first sleeve should contact a bushing shoulder by it's edge after the flange is removed. That is additional 2.99 mm. Similar situation is with a second sleeve. It should contact the end of the first sleeve after the flange is removed. Both sleeves have to be pushed for 2.99 mm by force that is applied on a sleeve edge. The edges are very thin. You need a special tool that slides with minimum clerance on the outer edge of the sleeve with a step to smaller diameter that slids on the wear bushing. That tool has to be made. It will cost probubly $100.00 or $200.00. The edge of the sleeve should not be damaged during installation. If sleev's edge is damaged it can cut a seal during installation.
Perhaps Speedi sleeve option is not practical in our application because sleeve's installation has to deviat from SKF instructions.

Vladimir
SM # 345


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Shaft alternator amel maramu

nezih nezih
 

Thank you Herbert,

I searched this couldnt find in usa.

Fair winds.

Nezih
Mahayana
Maramu81


From: herbert@... [amelyachtowners] ;
To: ;
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Shaft alternator amel maramu
Sent: Thu, Dec 1, 2016 12:19:39 PM

 

This is the shaft alternator on the Santorin



Fair winds
Herbert
SN120 KALI MERA, Trinidad, launched in two hours 




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Wearing out bearing

VLADIMIR SONSEV
 

Hi Crag,

I have reviewed the instructions. Instructions are not applicable for our case.
Instructions recommend to push Speedi sleeves by the flange. It will not work for us. Because the  first sleeve should contact a bushing shoulder by it's edge after the flange is removed. That is additional 2.99 mm. Similar situation is with a second sleeve. It should contact the end of the first sleeve after the flange is removed. Both sleeves have to be pushed for 2.99 mm by force that is applied on a sleeve edge. The edges are very thin. You need a special tool that slides with minimum clerance on the outer edge of the sleeve with a step to smaller diameter that slids on the wear bushing. That tool has to be made. It will cost probubly $100.00 or $200.00. The edge of the sleeve should not be damaged during installation. If sleev's edge is damaged it can cut a seal during installation.
Perhaps Speedi sleeve option is not practical in our application because sleeve's installation has to deviat from SKF instructions.

Vladimir
SM # 345


Changing companionway veneer.

Eric Freedman
 

HI Alex and James.

I have just sent you photos of how to replace the veneer on the companionway without removing the dodger.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, December 02, 2016 8:22 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Changing companionway veneer.

 

 

Eric,

 

   That is an interesting and creative solution to replace part of the veneer, thanks for sharing.  While the idea of having the slider on the bench to work on sounds appealing, your method could sure save me a lot of time over removal of the hardtop that could be delegated to other more important projects.  No rush but when you have the time to send me the photos, it would be great to see.

 

Best,

 

James Alton  Lokiyawl2 at aol.com

SV Sueno,  Maramu #220

Arbatax,  Italy

 

On Dec 1, 2016, at 10:50 PM, 'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

James,

You do not have to remove the sliding companionway or the hard dodger to replace the veneer.

If you send me your email I will send you photos of how I did mine.

Basically you remove the stop at the bottom of the companionway door . Then the door will slide all the way up to the dodger.

You can then use a router to remove the veneer and put new veneer on. Of course what is in the track cannot be changed, but you can’t see it. 

Mine looks beautiful after 5 or 6 years.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] 
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2016 3:12 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Maramu cockpit canopy

 

  

Eric,

 

   The exterior teak veneer has delaminated and I want to replace or reface the panel.   I would also like to improve the exterior seal during this project.  

 

Best,

 

James Alton

SV Sueno,  Maramu #220

Arbatax,  Italy

 

On Dec 1, 2016, at 3:46 PM, 'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

James,

Why are you removing the companionway slider?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:a melyachtowners@...] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2016 10:31 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Maramu cockpit canopy

 

  

 

 

 


Re: R: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] How long do your Hot Water Heaters Last?

Bill Kinney <greatketch@...>
 

How very strange! The Raritan hot water heater on my old boat went 20 years without ever needing anything, and it's still going. And it was on almost all the time.

I guess I need to keep a closer eye on the one on Harmonie!

Bill Kinney
SM #160 Harmonie
On the hard, Fort Lauderdale, FL
"Ships and men rot in port."
Http://fetchinketch.net


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Strange Battery charging…

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Kent,
yes I have the 12 six volters. They are golf cart size. When I bought the boat she had Trojan golf cart batteries. They were shot, cases swollen etc. The west marine are the same size. They fill the compartment with very little to spare. The starting batteries are in the back of the engine room. One for each of the gen set and engine. Sorry I cant give you the amp hours, too long since I bought them. As to wind generator. Put a Super wind on top of the mizzen (totally silent and self feathering blades in strong winds)  and clamp two solar panels to the port life lines aft of the cockpit. Unless you particularly feel the need to spend money. The arches look great, but functionally what I've got works very well. If it didn't I'd have changed it years ago.
Cheers
Danny 



From: "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]"
To: amelyachtowners@...
Sent: Saturday, 3 December 2016 10:07 AM
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Strange Battery charging…

 
Hi Danny,
So you're one of the folks with the 6-volt battery solution.  How many amp hours is your bank? Do you have the 8+1 battery compartment?  What batteries are they?  Do you have any pics of the arrangement in the compartment?
I guess I'm going to have to add an arch with solar +/- wind.  Makes a lot of sense if I can justify the initial outlay.

Thanks
Kent
SM243
Kristy



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Strange Battery charging…

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Alexandre,
My Dolphin chargers have a desulphation phase. Position 9. It runs to have the batteries at 34 volts and then dropping until finishing with a float phase at 27.6v. Takes two hours to complete. I turn off all instrumentation and don't enliven anything electrical during the process. My main battery switches remain on. I do all the 12 batteries together in situ. All cell caps off and the lid to the battery locker closed.. Avoid doing anything that might create an ignition source, there is a lot of toxic gas produced. Without the closed battery compartment vented outside it would be suicidal to do this in the boat.
As I said in my post I desulphated yesterday. The boat is on the mooring and I had noticed battery volts were at or above 28 every time I went on board (solar panels and wind generator) This indicated to me that the batteries were sulphated. (see my comments in yesterdays post) Today, post desulphation they were at 25. (rising as the solar kicked in)
Cheers
Danny
SM 299 Ocean Pearl 



From: "Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners]"
To: amelyachtowners@...
Sent: Saturday, 3 December 2016 9:54 AM
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Strange Battery charging…

 
Hello Danny,

Desulphalisation is the word I was looking for!
I put a “Pulse” system 3 years ago, it is 24 volt so connected on 2 batteries at the time, not sure it was useful…

How do you desulphalise?

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Harbor View Marina, Tortola, BVI

--------------------------------------------
On Fri, 12/2/16, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Strange Battery charging…
To: "amelyachtowners@..."
Date: Friday, December 2, 2016, 2:46 PM


 









Hi
Gary,The
detail you go to in caring for your batteries intimidates
me. I bought our 12, 6 volt wet cell lead acid batteries
from West marine in Newport Rhode Island in July 2009. I top
the water up from our water tank as needed  (the only water
that goes into our tank comes from the water maker) and if
they begin to not hold charge I desulphate. I believe on a
logical thought process (I think it is logical anyway) that
individual batteries may sulphate at different rates so the
performance for each battery would be affected differently.
So I would think that detailed individual testing may give
misleading results unless the bank had recently been
desulphated.
I had
got to the point of thinking I needed to replace them and
then I found how to desulphate.Sulphates
build up on the plates and reduce the ability for the charge
to get to the plates. The more sulphates the less charge
gets through. What happens is the batteries seem to charge
more quickly but then discharge rapidly. The higher the rate
of amp input the worse the effect as the charger senses the
batteries are full and cuts out. A lower rate of charge
trickles through the sulphate coating and results in a
fuller genuine charge. Imagine pumping water through a fine
filter with a pump with a pressure cut out. A high flow
pump would build up pressure quickly and cut out. A lower
flow pump would keep going. But, best solution, remove the
filter ie desulphate.I
also confess to at times over discharging (too often) but
here we are 8 years down the track and still going. (now
I've said that they'll fail tomorrow) I believe the
solar panels and the wind generator are critical components
the battery longevity. All the time it is on the mooring the
batteries are kept to optimum levels, we leave one fridge on
and there is a dump load system for the wind generator. If
its cloudy and windy the generator does it. If its sunny and
still, the panels. If its sunny AND windy;
wow.CheersDannySM
299 Ocean PearlMangonuiNew
Zealand




From: amelliahona

To:
amelyachtowners@...
Sent: Saturday, 3
December 2016 8:50 AM
Subject: Re: [Amel
Yacht Owners] Strange Battery charging…



 









Hi
Alexandre:
I
don't recall the Serial Number of you boat, but mine (SN
335) accepts 8 , group 31 batteries for the house bank.  I
am in Puerto Rico and just purchased 8 Trojan SCS225 deep
cycle flooded lead acid batteries from Battery Giant (a USA
national chain) for $237 each (I ordered them and they took
about 2.5 weeks to arrive, I picked them up in San Juan
(actually Guaynabo which is part of the San Juan megaplex)
with a rental car.  I have used Battery Giant twice for
various battery needs and they treated me fairly both times.
 They were very solicitous.  I worked with Javier, phone
787-272-0533.  I can recommend them.  This
is the second set of Trojan SCS225s I have purchased (last
set bought in Antigua and cost $125 more each because they
were further down island).  When you buy a set of batteries
look at the serial numbers on the batteries to see if you
get a fairly consistent run of numbers to exclude the
potential for getting some older ones mixed with newer ones
as they sat in stock at the vendor.
I echo the idea that one bad battery
can bring down an entire bank.  As I monitor my bank I try
to follow the specifics of the battery manufacturer
faithfully (in my case Trojans). I do the
following:
1. I  use
a digital volt meter to check the voltage of each battery
about once a week when I am aboard.  Testing conditions:
 I fully charge the bank, then turn off all current draws,
wait 30 minutes to an hour then check each battery (not each
pair).  This does not require disconnecting each pair, just
measure from positive to negative across each individual
battery.  I log this data in a spreadsheet to spot trends.
 Takes me about 10 minutes.2.  I check the
battery water level each week when aboard and have the
caretaker check it monthly when not aboard.  Top up the
level ONLY when the batteries are fully charged.  Use only
distilled water (NOT
PURIFIED WATER).  You don't want minerals in the water.
Takes me about 20 minutes and I am surprised at how much
water they use in the hot Caribbean.3.  I
measure the specific gravity of each cell using a hydrometer
(6 cells X 8 batteries = 48 cells) once a month.  I do this
at the same time I check the battery voltages and under the
same testing conditions.  Log that data to spot trends.  A
single failing cell can bring down the whole bank. Takes me
about 1 hour.4.  I load test any suspect battery
with the load tester that Bill Rouse
recommended.5.  Make sure you have a digital
thermometer in you battery box, one that has a probe with a
programable alarm capability.  A single bad cell can cause
an overcharging condition that will boil your entire bank
(been there twice in my 15 years of owning Liahona).  Takes
hours to remove and clean up the batteries and the battery
box from the spilled electrolyte not to mention the harm
done to the batteries.5.  I never leave the boat
plugged in to shore power with a charger on if I am going to
be absent from the boat for more than a couple of hours.  I
just don't want to burn down my boat from an
overcharging scenario.6.  Equalize your
batteries if you have the capability to do so.  Follow the
manufacturers directions and be very very careful as you do
so to make sure the bank is disconnected from all loads and
carefully monitor the process.  
I wish you the best, 
Gary S. Silver  s/v Liahona  
 Amel #335   Currently in Puerto Del Rey Marina Puerto
RicoI







Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Two RCD devices triggered simultaneously

svperegrinus@yahoo.com
 

Bill,

The resistance part arrived on Thursday and the total cost was €52 / $55.50.  It is a "Quick"-brand supplied part, as it came in a plastic bag with the Quick logo, part number, and bar code.  It is the same as my old part which was installed in Ft Lauderdale in April 2014.

It came with two gaskets, one larger and one smaller, which are installed one on top of each other.  The old part's gasket was either a one-part stepped gasket with a larger and a smaller section or two gaskets fused with time and heat to form one apparent unit.

The actual manufacturer is "RECO", and it is made in Italy.  I agree with you that this is most likely a generic part. When the local Quick dealer called the factory with the part number I supplied, Quick did not recognize the part number (!) but instead just wanted to know the watts and volts.

Peregrinus used to have a 600W resistance but since April 2014 we've been on 1200W units.  The zinc on my 2.5-year old resistance was gone; now that I know how to install this, I will inspect once a year as the manual states.  I'll be ordering spares on Monday.

Thanks again,

SM2K Nr. 350
San Giorgio Maggiore, Venice


Re: R: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] How long do your Hot Water Heaters Last?

karkauai
 

I've replaced the Quick Nautical Boiler (40L model B3) heater twice in the 8 years I've owned SM243.  The first time was 6 years ago and due to a leaking tank.  I replaced it again 4 years later because of a pinhole in the heat exchanger (this caused a mysterious rise in the overflow tank for the fresh water cooling circuit for the diesels...I don't remember who on this forum suggested the cause, but he was right on!) The heat exchanger, unlike the electric heating element can't be replaced.  I've just recently had a failure of the heating element, too.

So, in 8 years I've had two major failures and one minor one. 

 I don't think mine has a zinc, but I'm going to look again.  If not, I think I'll see if I can add one at one of the input or output pipes for either fresh water or the heat exchanger.  Any suggestions of where and how to add a zinc?

Kent
SM243
Kristy


Re: R: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] How long do your Hot Water Heaters Last?

svperegrinus@yahoo.com
 

To the question of how long do hot water heaters last...

I'd suggest it probably depends on 

1. how long one leaves it plugged-in, 
2. whether one uses marina water or only watermaker water
3. whether one replaces the zinc in the halting element before it wears out.

In the case of Peregrinus, the boat is 14 years old and it is on at least its second heater.  The resistance unit on the second heater has failed at least twice.  Both known times the resistance failed, the zinc was allowed to fully dissolve (big mistake!).  The heater is left unplugged most of time, and most of the water is shore water.

Not known is the effect, if any, of the temp setting and of the resistance's wattage.  We leave it at max (80 °C) and we use a 1200 watt resistance.

Would be nice to hear other's comments on the subject,  cheers,

SM2K N° 350
Compagnia della Vela, Venice


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Shaft alternator amel maramu

nezih nezih
 

Hi Dennis,

Allready I have the original maramu shaft pully which has large belt not V and have bracket.

Im looking for same kind of generator.

I will leave Maimi end of december heading to Cuba and Bahamas. Maybe I may stay some more.

Thanks for your interest.

Best wishes

Nezih
Mahayana
Maramu81



From: Dennis Johns sbmesasailor@... [amelyachtowners] ;
To: amelyachtowners@... ;
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Shaft alternator amel maramu
Sent: Thu, Dec 1, 2016 4:57:05 PM

 

Hi Nezih,

I won't be back on my boat until the end of this month but I know that the pulley is just as important as the alternator.  You want to make sure that the diameter of the pulley is small enough generate sufficient rpms.  Also, the pulley on the propeller shaft of my boat is a multi-V belt, so the pulley on the alternator had to match that. Finding the right pulley for the alternator may be harder to find than the alternator.  I'm pretty sure the alternator I have is a Motorola product but I don't have the part number at this time.  I can get you the alternator part number and the diameter of the pulley the first week of January if you can wait that long.

Dennis Johns
s/v Libertad


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Strange Battery charging…

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Thanks Kent!



--------------------------------------------

On Fri, 12/2/16, Kent Robertson karkauai@yahoo.com [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Strange Battery charging…
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, December 2, 2016, 3:12 PM


 









Alex,You have to have a
charger with a desulphating (equalization) mode.  It
charges at a very high voltage (30-31v) for a set amount of
time.  I was told to depower all 24v equipment before
running the equalization to protect the equipment from
damage by the high voltage.
Kent
Kristy
SM243


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Strange Battery charging…

karkauai
 

Alex,
You have to have a charger with a desulphating (equalization) mode.  It charges at a very high voltage (30-31v) for a set amount of time.  I was told to depower all 24v equipment before running the equalization to protect the equipment from damage by the high voltage.

Kent
Kristy
SM243


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Strange Battery charging…

karkauai
 

Hi Danny,
So you're one of the folks with the 6-volt battery solution.  How many amp hours is your bank? Do you have the 8+1 battery compartment?  What batteries are they?  Do you have any pics of the arrangement in the compartment?
I guess I'm going to have to add an arch with solar +/- wind.  Makes a lot of sense if I can justify the initial outlay.

Thanks
Kent
SM243
Kristy


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Strange Battery charging…

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Hello Danny,

Desulphalisation is the word I was looking for!
I put a “Pulse” system 3 years ago, it is 24 volt so connected on 2 batteries at the time, not sure it was useful…

How do you desulphalise?

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Harbor View Marina, Tortola, BVI




--------------------------------------------

On Fri, 12/2/16, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@xtra.co.nz [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Strange Battery charging…
To: "amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Friday, December 2, 2016, 2:46 PM


 









Hi
Gary,The
detail you go to in caring for your batteries intimidates
me. I bought our 12, 6 volt wet cell lead acid batteries
from West marine in Newport Rhode Island in July 2009. I top
the water up from our water tank as needed  (the only water
that goes into our tank comes from the water maker) and if
they begin to not hold charge I desulphate. I believe on a
logical thought process (I think it is logical anyway) that
individual batteries may sulphate at different rates so the
performance for each battery would be affected differently.
So I would think that detailed individual testing may give
misleading results unless the bank had recently been
desulphated.
I had
got to the point of thinking I needed to replace them and
then I found how to desulphate.Sulphates
build up on the plates and reduce the ability for the charge
to get to the plates. The more sulphates the less charge
gets through. What happens is the batteries seem to charge
more quickly but then discharge rapidly. The higher the rate
of amp input the worse the effect as the charger senses the
batteries are full and cuts out. A lower rate of charge
trickles through the sulphate coating and results in a
fuller genuine charge. Imagine pumping water through a fine
filter with a pump with a pressure cut out. A high flow
pump would build up pressure quickly and cut out. A lower
flow pump would keep going. But, best solution, remove the
filter ie desulphate.I
also confess to at times over discharging (too often) but
here we are 8 years down the track and still going. (now
I've said that they'll fail tomorrow) I believe the
solar panels and the wind generator are critical components
the battery longevity. All the time it is on the mooring the
batteries are kept to optimum levels, we leave one fridge on
and there is a dump load system for the wind generator. If
its cloudy and windy the generator does it. If its sunny and
still, the panels. If its sunny AND windy;
wow.CheersDannySM
299 Ocean PearlMangonuiNew
Zealand




From: amelliahona
<no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
To:
amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, 3
December 2016 8:50 AM
Subject: Re: [Amel
Yacht Owners] Strange Battery charging…



 









Hi
Alexandre:
I
don't recall the Serial Number of you boat, but mine (SN
335) accepts 8 , group 31 batteries for the house bank.  I
am in Puerto Rico and just purchased 8 Trojan SCS225 deep
cycle flooded lead acid batteries from Battery Giant (a USA
national chain) for $237 each (I ordered them and they took
about 2.5 weeks to arrive, I picked them up in San Juan
(actually Guaynabo which is part of the San Juan megaplex)
with a rental car.  I have used Battery Giant twice for
various battery needs and they treated me fairly both times.
 They were very solicitous.  I worked with Javier, phone
787-272-0533.  I can recommend them.  This
is the second set of Trojan SCS225s I have purchased (last
set bought in Antigua and cost $125 more each because they
were further down island).  When you buy a set of batteries
look at the serial numbers on the batteries to see if you
get a fairly consistent run of numbers to exclude the
potential for getting some older ones mixed with newer ones
as they sat in stock at the vendor.
I echo the idea that one bad battery
can bring down an entire bank.  As I monitor my bank I try
to follow the specifics of the battery manufacturer
faithfully (in my case Trojans). I do the
following:
1. I  use
a digital volt meter to check the voltage of each battery
about once a week when I am aboard.  Testing conditions:
 I fully charge the bank, then turn off all current draws,
wait 30 minutes to an hour then check each battery (not each
pair).  This does not require disconnecting each pair, just
measure from positive to negative across each individual
battery.  I log this data in a spreadsheet to spot trends.
 Takes me about 10 minutes.2.  I check the
battery water level each week when aboard and have the
caretaker check it monthly when not aboard.  Top up the
level ONLY when the batteries are fully charged.  Use only
distilled water (NOT
PURIFIED WATER).  You don't want minerals in the water.
Takes me about 20 minutes and I am surprised at how much
water they use in the hot Caribbean.3.  I
measure the specific gravity of each cell using a hydrometer
(6 cells X 8 batteries = 48 cells) once a month.  I do this
at the same time I check the battery voltages and under the
same testing conditions.  Log that data to spot trends.  A
single failing cell can bring down the whole bank. Takes me
about 1 hour.4.  I load test any suspect battery
with the load tester that Bill Rouse
recommended.5.  Make sure you have a digital
thermometer in you battery box, one that has a probe with a
programable alarm capability.  A single bad cell can cause
an overcharging condition that will boil your entire bank
(been there twice in my 15 years of owning Liahona).  Takes
hours to remove and clean up the batteries and the battery
box from the spilled electrolyte not to mention the harm
done to the batteries.5.  I never leave the boat
plugged in to shore power with a charger on if I am going to
be absent from the boat for more than a couple of hours.  I
just don't want to burn down my boat from an
overcharging scenario.6.  Equalize your
batteries if you have the capability to do so.  Follow the
manufacturers directions and be very very careful as you do
so to make sure the bank is disconnected from all loads and
carefully monitor the process.  
I wish you the best, 
Gary S. Silver  s/v Liahona  
 Amel #335   Currently in Puerto Del Rey Marina Puerto
RicoI


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Strange Battery charging…

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Gary,
The detail you go to in caring for your batteries intimidates me. I bought our 12, 6 volt wet cell lead acid batteries from West marine in Newport Rhode Island in July 2009. I top the water up from our water tank as needed  (the only water that goes into our tank comes from the water maker) and if they begin to not hold charge I desulphate. I believe on a logical thought process (I think it is logical anyway) that individual batteries may sulphate at different rates so the performance for each battery would be affected differently. So I would think that detailed individual testing may give misleading results unless the bank had recently been desulphated.

I had got to the point of thinking I needed to replace them and then I found how to desulphate.
Sulphates build up on the plates and reduce the ability for the charge to get to the plates. The more sulphates the less charge gets through. What happens is the batteries seem to charge more quickly but then discharge rapidly. The higher the rate of amp input the worse the effect as the charger senses the batteries are full and cuts out. A lower rate of charge trickles through the sulphate coating and results in a fuller genuine charge. Imagine pumping water through a fine filter with a pump with a pressure cut out. A high flow pump would build up pressure quickly and cut out. A lower flow pump would keep going. But, best solution, remove the filter ie desulphate.
I also confess to at times over discharging (too often) but here we are 8 years down the track and still going. (now I've said that they'll fail tomorrow) I believe the solar panels and the wind generator are critical components the battery longevity. All the time it is on the mooring the batteries are kept to optimum levels, we leave one fridge on and there is a dump load system for the wind generator. If its cloudy and windy the generator does it. If its sunny and still, the panels. If its sunny AND windy; wow.
Cheers
Danny
SM 299 Ocean Pearl
Mangonui
New Zealand




From: amelliahona
To: amelyachtowners@...
Sent: Saturday, 3 December 2016 8:50 AM
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Strange Battery charging…

 
Hi Alexandre:

I don't recall the Serial Number of you boat, but mine (SN 335) accepts 8 , group 31 batteries for the house bank.  I am in Puerto Rico and just purchased 8 Trojan SCS225 deep cycle flooded lead acid batteries from Battery Giant (a USA national chain) for $237 each (I ordered them and they took about 2.5 weeks to arrive, I picked them up in San Juan (actually Guaynabo which is part of the San Juan megaplex) with a rental car.  I have used Battery Giant twice for various battery needs and they treated me fairly both times.  They were very solicitous.  I worked with Javier, phone 787-272-0533.  I can recommend them.  
This is the second set of Trojan SCS225s I have purchased (last set bought in Antigua and cost $125 more each because they were further down island).  When you buy a set of batteries look at the serial numbers on the batteries to see if you get a fairly consistent run of numbers to exclude the potential for getting some older ones mixed with newer ones as they sat in stock at the vendor.

I echo the idea that one bad battery can bring down an entire bank.  As I monitor my bank I try to follow the specifics of the battery manufacturer faithfully (in my case Trojans). I do the following:

1. I  use a digital volt meter to check the voltage of each battery about once a week when I am aboard.  Testing conditions:  I fully charge the bank, then turn off all current draws, wait 30 minutes to an hour then check each battery (not each pair).  This does not require disconnecting each pair, just measure from positive to negative across each individual battery.  I log this data in a spreadsheet to spot trends.  Takes me about 10 minutes.
2.  I check the battery water level each week when aboard and have the caretaker check it monthly when not aboard.  Top up the level ONLY when the batteries are fully charged.  Use only distilled water (NOT PURIFIED WATER).  You don't want minerals in the water. Takes me about 20 minutes and I am surprised at how much water they use in the hot Caribbean.
3.  I measure the specific gravity of each cell using a hydrometer (6 cells X 8 batteries = 48 cells) once a month.  I do this at the same time I check the battery voltages and under the same testing conditions.  Log that data to spot trends.  A single failing cell can bring down the whole bank. Takes me about 1 hour.
4.  I load test any suspect battery with the load tester that Bill Rouse recommended.
5.  Make sure you have a digital thermometer in you battery box, one that has a probe with a programable alarm capability.  A single bad cell can cause an overcharging condition that will boil your entire bank (been there twice in my 15 years of owning Liahona).  Takes hours to remove and clean up the batteries and the battery box from the spilled electrolyte not to mention the harm done to the batteries.
5.  I never leave the boat plugged in to shore power with a charger on if I am going to be absent from the boat for more than a couple of hours.  I just don't want to burn down my boat from an overcharging scenario.
6.  Equalize your batteries if you have the capability to do so.  Follow the manufacturers directions and be very very careful as you do so to make sure the bank is disconnected from all loads and carefully monitor the process.  

I wish you the best, 

Gary S. Silver  s/v Liahona    Amel #335   Currently in Puerto Del Rey Marina Puerto Rico
I



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Strange Battery charging…

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Good afternoon Gary,

Always a pleasure to read you!
Mine is 289, so older than yours.

I just look at the specs of the Trojan SCS225
http://www.trojanbattery.com/products/SCS22512V.aspx
I don’t think my battery compartment will be able to hold them.
http://nikimat.com/battery_compartment_space.html
I am limited to 9” height a little more around the wood.

I will contact Javier and compare the price with DC batteries (recommended by Bill).

Great idea to look at the serial number!

So when you check the batteries, you don’t need to disconnect them?
That would definitely save me lots of time…

I bought distilled water when I was in San Juan just for that purpose.

I don’t use the hydrometer once a month… I need to force myself.

I will add the digital thermometer on my list… I just spent a few hours cleaning the spilled electrolyte…

Somehow I thought my battery charger was doing equalizing automatically, but I must have mistake with something to prevent the sulphurization… (spelling?)
I will slowly read about that.

Thanks again for your always detailed explanations and instructions.
Hope to meet you in the coming weeks!

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Harbor View Marina, Tortola, BVI



--------------------------------------------

On Fri, 12/2/16, amelliahona <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Strange Battery charging…
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, December 2, 2016, 1:50 PM


 









Hi Alexandre:
I
don't recall the Serial Number of you boat, but mine (SN
335) accepts 8 , group 31 batteries for the house bank.  I
am in Puerto Rico and just purchased 8 Trojan SCS225 deep
cycle flooded lead acid batteries from Battery Giant (a USA
national chain) for $237 each (I ordered them and they took
about 2.5 weeks to arrive, I picked them up in San Juan
(actually Guaynabo which is part of the San Juan megaplex)
with a rental car.  I have used Battery Giant twice for
various battery needs and they treated me fairly both times.
 They were very solicitous.  I worked with Javier, phone
787-272-0533.  I can recommend them.  This is
the second set of Trojan SCS225s I have purchased (last set
bought in Antigua and cost $125 more each because they were
further down island).  When you buy a set of batteries look
at the serial numbers on the batteries to see if you get a
fairly consistent run of numbers to exclude the potential
for getting some older ones mixed with newer ones as they
sat in stock at the vendor.
I echo the idea that one bad battery
can bring down an entire bank.  As I monitor my bank I try
to follow the specifics of the battery manufacturer
faithfully (in my case Trojans). I do the
following:
1. I  use
a digital volt meter to check the voltage of each battery
about once a week when I am aboard.  Testing conditions:
 I fully charge the bank, then turn off all current draws,
wait 30 minutes to an hour then check each battery (not each
pair).  This does not require disconnecting each pair, just
measure from positive to negative across each individual
battery.  I log this data in a spreadsheet to spot trends.
 Takes me about 10 minutes.2.  I check the
battery water level each week when aboard and have the
caretaker check it monthly when not aboard.  Top up the
level ONLY when the batteries are fully charged.  Use only
distilled water (NOT
PURIFIED WATER).  You don't want minerals in the water.
Takes me about 20 minutes and I am surprised at how much
water they use in the hot Caribbean.3.  I
measure the specific gravity of each cell using a hydrometer
(6 cells X 8 batteries = 48 cells) once a month.  I do this
at the same time I check the battery voltages and under the
same testing conditions.  Log that data to spot trends.  A
single failing cell can bring down the whole bank. Takes me
about 1 hour.4.  I load test any suspect battery
with the load tester that Bill Rouse
recommended.5.  Make sure you have a digital
thermometer in you battery box, one that has a probe with a
programable alarm capability.  A single bad cell can cause
an overcharging condition that will boil your entire bank
(been there twice in my 15 years of owning Liahona).  Takes
hours to remove and clean up the batteries and the battery
box from the spilled electrolyte not to mention the harm
done to the batteries.5.  I never leave the boat
plugged in to shore power with a charger on if I am going to
be absent from the boat for more than a couple of hours.  I
just don't want to burn down my boat from an
overcharging scenario.6.  Equalize your
batteries if you have the capability to do so.  Follow the
manufacturers directions and be very very careful as you do
so to make sure the bank is disconnected from all loads and
carefully monitor the process.  
I wish you the best, 
Gary S. Silver  s/v Liahona  
 Amel #335   Currently in Puerto Del Rey Marina Puerto
RicoI









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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Strange Battery charging…

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Hello Kent,

Compare to the news you had this is nothing…

After the 3 days power outage in Puerto Rico, I had a good idea the batteries needed to be changed, was just not enough margin for shipping.
Yes we have the same battery compartment (8 +1).

I am interested in the Trojan 27TMH rated at 115 AH (20-hour)
I doubt I will find them locally in Tortola, so will have them shipped.

I should probably rename this thread: would appreciate some input.

Let’s take 2 batteries: the Deka (Group 31) DC32DT rated 105 AH and the Trojan (Group 27) 27 TMH rated at 115 AH - actually in my example I should pick the Trojan TMX (Group 27) also rated 105 AH like the Deka.

Is there a difference? Will the group 31 for any reason last longer or perform better?
I was always told the heavier was the better the Deka weight 60 lbs and the Trojan 55 lbs so I could understand the Deka having an advantage, but in that case back to the Trojan (Group 27) 27 TMH which has more AH: 115 and also weight more: 61 lbs.
I am missing something in my analogy?

Back to your question Kent, I wouldn’t mind going with AGM batteries, but as it was mentioned many times on the forum, the 24 volt alternator on the engine is set for flooded type batteries, and I doubt they are adjustable. Please tell me if I am wrong!

For now I am staying at anchor, but something else I have been thinking is instead to try to increase the AH, try to decrease the consumption.
One way is to have the freezer insulation improved, like using an R50 or something more efficient than what we have.

Thanks in advance for feedback on the battery difference question.

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Harbor View Marina, Tortola, BVI




--------------------------------------------

On Fri, 12/2/16, Kent Robertson karkauai@yahoo.com [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Strange Battery charging…
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, December 2, 2016, 1:03 PM


 









Hi Alex.  Sorry about the bad news.
 What batteries are you going to buy?Kristy is
SM243 and has the smaller battery compartment with room for
9-Group27 batteries.  These typically are 90 AH batteries
(which I think yours are) so an 8 battery house bank would
yield 360 Ah at 24V.Do you have the larger size
compartment that allows for 2 more batteries?
I would like to increase my total
AmpHour capacity, And stay with flooded lead acid
batteries.
I know
others have used 6-V batteries and other solutions to this
problem, but don't know if they have the larger battery
compartment, whether they are using gel or AGM batteries, or
how they arrange them in the battery
compartment.  I see Bebe's pics show 4
thinner batteries along the inboard side of the compartment.
 Bill, what size batteries are you using, and are the
charging characteristics the same for both sizes?  Any
issues with charging two different size batteries?  Do you
have the larger sized compartment?
Anyone else with a different
solution to increasing the amphours in the smaller battery
compartment?  Can you post some specs and pics of the
batteries and how you arranged them?
Thanks in
advance.KentSM243KristyCurrently
Shelter Bay near Colon, Panama






















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