Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Smoking Gun...

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Porter,  

I hope that you do not mind receiving comments that do dot definitively solve your issue. Here are some of my thoughts:

I think Nigel Calder know something about a lot of things, and I sometimes disagree with him, especially when he uses generalizations and absolutes.

As Mark said, black smoke is an indication of unburnt diesel. The Volvo D3-110 computer and sensors appear to me to be one of the most misunderstood and most criticized systems in the marine business. It is extremely difficult to find a Volvo certified mechanic that completely understands the computer logic, controls and the sensors. Most of them repair these engines using the "bingo method" of repair which is they start replacing parts until they eventually "bingo." 

Someone needs to fully understand the Volvo system to find the answer. I certainly do not and I do not intend to learn it.

That said, I am betting that the Volvo D3-110 computer primes during the beginning of the start cycle and that this increase of diesel at startup may be normal to a limit, but I do not know the limit, not do I know what controls the limit and if it is adjustable. I believe that once the engine has started the Volvo sensors and computer work together to ensure that the engine is not over-fueled...this eliminates the cause of the black smoke you see at starting.

You state that Calder said, "...it indicates something serious...always.” This is the type of absolute statement that really bothers me about him, because it tells you nothing...what is "serious?" My serious and your serious may be two completely different things. And, "...always" is not possible in the marine business except that things are "always" unpredictable. I know a lot of people like Calder, and he knows a lot more than me, but it is things like this that are very troubling to me, but not "always."

Best,

Bill
X-BeBe
Galveston, Texas

On Sun, Feb 19, 2017 at 12:40 PM, Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

That's comforting. To say the least!  
I'll be sure to check. 

Many thanks Mark



On Feb 19, 2017, at 12:03 PM, 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Porter,

 

The good news it is definitely not the turbo charger. When the turbo charger goes out you will lack RPM and put out a huge cloud of black smoke with a warm engine (ask me how I know this).

 

A lot of diesels will puff a little black smoke at start. It is an indication of fuel not being burned. It can be due to any number of things such as air in the fuel line or poor fuel quality. When was the last time the fuel filters were changed? (note I said “filters” with an S). Most likely your issue, if you have an issue, is fuel related.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currenlty cruising – Cambridge Cay- Exuma Islands, Bahamas

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com [mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2017 11:16 AM
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Smoking Gun...

 

 

Good Sunday morning you Oracles!

Just took Nigel Calder’s Diesel class.  Fascinating.  
I think humans are less complex!

Anyway quick question.  We are in the process of working through buying what seems like a great 2010 54.  

But…  did notice a big puff of black smoke on cold start up while visiting the boat.  Lasted 5 seconds then cleared up.. Owner said no problem.  Nigel disagreed.  He said on a common-rail like the Volvo D3-110 it indicates something serious.  "Always.”

Warm starts seem ok.  The remainder of the trip no smoke. I am sorry that I haven’t spent enough time in the engine room yet to have more details.  

Clearly it's a mixture issue, possible turbo?  

Any thoughts?  I am going down with Dave Huffman in a few weeks.

Always so very appreciated.

Porter

 



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Smoking Gun...

Porter McRoberts <portermcroberts@...>
 

That's comforting. To say the least!  
I'll be sure to check. 

Many thanks Mark



On Feb 19, 2017, at 12:03 PM, 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Porter,

 

The good news it is definitely not the turbo charger. When the turbo charger goes out you will lack RPM and put out a huge cloud of black smoke with a warm engine (ask me how I know this).

 

A lot of diesels will puff a little black smoke at start. It is an indication of fuel not being burned. It can be due to any number of things such as air in the fuel line or poor fuel quality. When was the last time the fuel filters were changed? (note I said “filters” with an S). Most likely your issue, if you have an issue, is fuel related.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currenlty cruising – Cambridge Cay- Exuma Islands, Bahamas

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2017 11:16 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Smoking Gun...

 

 

Good Sunday morning you Oracles!

Just took Nigel Calder’s Diesel class.  Fascinating.  
I think humans are less complex!

Anyway quick question.  We are in the process of working through buying what seems like a great 2010 54.  

But…  did notice a big puff of black smoke on cold start up while visiting the boat.  Lasted 5 seconds then cleared up.. Owner said no problem.  Nigel disagreed.  He said on a common-rail like the Volvo D3-110 it indicates something serious.  "Always.”

Warm starts seem ok.  The remainder of the trip no smoke. I am sorry that I haven’t spent enough time in the engine room yet to have more details.  

Clearly it's a mixture issue, possible turbo?  

Any thoughts?  I am going down with Dave Huffman in a few weeks.

Always so very appreciated.

Porter

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Smoking Gun...

Mark Erdos
 

Porter,

 

The good news it is definitely not the turbo charger. When the turbo charger goes out you will lack RPM and put out a huge cloud of black smoke with a warm engine (ask me how I know this).

 

A lot of diesels will puff a little black smoke at start. It is an indication of fuel not being burned. It can be due to any number of things such as air in the fuel line or poor fuel quality. When was the last time the fuel filters were changed? (note I said “filters” with an S). Most likely your issue, if you have an issue, is fuel related.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currenlty cruising – Cambridge Cay- Exuma Islands, Bahamas

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2017 11:16 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Smoking Gun...

 

 

Good Sunday morning you Oracles!

Just took Nigel Calder’s Diesel class.  Fascinating.  
I think humans are less complex!

Anyway quick question.  We are in the process of working through buying what seems like a great 2010 54.  

But…  did notice a big puff of black smoke on cold start up while visiting the boat.  Lasted 5 seconds then cleared up.. Owner said no problem.  Nigel disagreed.  He said on a common-rail like the Volvo D3-110 it indicates something serious.  "Always.”

Warm starts seem ok.  The remainder of the trip no smoke. I am sorry that I haven’t spent enough time in the engine room yet to have more details.  

Clearly it's a mixture issue, possible turbo?  

Any thoughts?  I am going down with Dave Huffman in a few weeks.

Always so very appreciated.

Porter

 


Smoking Gun...

portermcroberts@...
 

Good Sunday morning you Oracles!

Just took Nigel Calder’s Diesel class.  Fascinating.  
I think humans are less complex!

Anyway quick question.  We are in the process of working through buying what seems like a great 2010 54.  

But…  did notice a big puff of black smoke on cold start up while visiting the boat.  Lasted 5 seconds then cleared up.. Owner said no problem.  Nigel disagreed.  He said on a common-rail like the Volvo D3-110 it indicates something serious.  "Always.”

Warm starts seem ok.  The remainder of the trip no smoke. I am sorry that I haven’t spent enough time in the engine room yet to have more details.  

Clearly it's a mixture issue, possible turbo?  

Any thoughts?  I am going down with Dave Huffman in a few weeks.

Always so very appreciated.

Porter



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Insurance (2016/7) - Single handed coverage??

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Good morning,

Just to add information to the subject.
I requested a quote from Y Yacht Insurance.
for 280.000 Euro vessel ($300.000) the premium is 2400 Euro ($2600) for cruising area (Easter) Caribbean Lat 9N to 19N and Long 58W to 68W PLUS the ABC (Aruba, Bonaire and Curacao).
There is NO coverage between June and November during windstorm name, unless the vessel is:
-In the water Chaguaramas (Trinidad) or the ABC
-Ashore in Grenada or Antigua on the One piece purpose built crate (deductible is increase to 6000 Euro)
-In the new Marina in Fort De France, in double slip with all lines double (deductible is increase to 6000 Euro)
-Solo is limited to 18 hours.

We have been talking back and forth, I mentioned my lines are always double, explain how many fenders I use, etc. so they would consider adding the Anse Marcel with triple dock lines.

I am seriously considering using them once my current insurance expires.

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Harbor View Marina, Tortola, BVI



--------------------------------------------

On Sat, 2/18/17, derickgates@comcast.net [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Insurance (2016/7) - Single handed coverage??
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, February 18, 2017, 7:35 AM


 









I have Pantaenius US insurance with geographic
restrictions (cannot go to Haiti, Venezuela, Panama Canal or
Cuba, above 52 degrees North latitude or below 7 degrees
North latitude or east of 50 degrees West longitude) but
otherwise good for US East and Gulf coasts and all of the
Caribbean.  There is a named tropical storm plan
requirement from July 15 through November 1, which I have
filed as being strapped into a steel cradle in Antigua.
 This plan earned from Pantaenius US a 5% deductible for
hurricane/TS damage.
There is no singlehanded restriction
of any sort.  I am allowed a part time paid crew for up to
90 days. Total agreed fixed value is $415,000 for which the
premium is $6501.50.   I also carry a 1 million dollar
liability coverage for an additional  $650.00.  I have in
almost 4 years of ownership submitted no claims, and
Pantaenius US has renewed like clockwork every
May.
Derick
GatesSM2K#400 BravaCurrently in
Sapphire Beach Marina, St. Thomas, USVI


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Sonic Speed Replacement

Leopold Hauer
 

Hello Colin

I'm interested on your pictures, please make an upload.

Leo

YinYang, SM#69
Austria

Von meinem iPad gesendet

Am 19.02.2017 um 10:49 schrieb SV Island Pearl II colin.d.streeter@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Hanspeter, Alan, Dieter

I've just sent you all directly the pictures of the P79 installation under front cabin floor, mizzen mast dual radars with cameras, and the camera control system and nav station picture as requested. Let me know if you did not receive these. If anyone else was interested let me know and I will upload the pics to the Amel owners site.
Cheers
Colin Streeter, Island Pearl II, SM#332
Brisbane

On Sun, Feb 19, 2017 at 1:00 PM, SV Island Pearl II <colin.d.streeter@...> wrote:
Alan, no problem I will go down to the boat today and send you a pic direct after. Also Hanspeter was still wanting one regarding the mizzen mast cameras so will get a pic of that too for him direct too.

The P79 goes directly into my Raymarine ES97 at the helm. The cable they come with isn't long enough to get much past the Nav station so I had my electronics guy extend that cable all the way to the helm. In our case this is only really a 2nd backup depth sounder so I generally don't have it on (ie plugged in to the back of the Raymarine unit) unless we are in shallow water here, travelling between sand banks slowly into shallower water as it is a good 1.5m - 2m in front of the original depth sounder, so a really nice early warning system ahead of the normal sounder before actually hitting the many sand banks here in Moreton Bay.

I should add, apart from saving power, the other reason we don't have the P79 on all the time is because of the faint clicking noises it makes when on. Could possibly annoy someone sleeping up front.

Colin, Island Pearl II
SM#332


On Sun, Feb 19, 2017 at 9:59 AM, divanz620@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Thanks Colin,

Yes pic please....also what exact model of P79 did you install ...did you connect it to B&G Hydra, or something else?
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437




--
Colin Streeter
0411 016 445



--
Colin Streeter
0411 016 445


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Sonic Speed Replacement

Colin - ex SV Island Pearl
 

Hanspeter, Alan, Dieter

I've just sent you all directly the pictures of the P79 installation under front cabin floor, mizzen mast dual radars with cameras, and the camera control system and nav station picture as requested. Let me know if you did not receive these. If anyone else was interested let me know and I will upload the pics to the Amel owners site.
Cheers
Colin Streeter, Island Pearl II, SM#332
Brisbane

On Sun, Feb 19, 2017 at 1:00 PM, SV Island Pearl II <colin.d.streeter@...> wrote:
Alan, no problem I will go down to the boat today and send you a pic direct after. Also Hanspeter was still wanting one regarding the mizzen mast cameras so will get a pic of that too for him direct too.

The P79 goes directly into my Raymarine ES97 at the helm. The cable they come with isn't long enough to get much past the Nav station so I had my electronics guy extend that cable all the way to the helm. In our case this is only really a 2nd backup depth sounder so I generally don't have it on (ie plugged in to the back of the Raymarine unit) unless we are in shallow water here, travelling between sand banks slowly into shallower water as it is a good 1.5m - 2m in front of the original depth sounder, so a really nice early warning system ahead of the normal sounder before actually hitting the many sand banks here in Moreton Bay.

I should add, apart from saving power, the other reason we don't have the P79 on all the time is because of the faint clicking noises it makes when on. Could possibly annoy someone sleeping up front.

Colin, Island Pearl II
SM#332


On Sun, Feb 19, 2017 at 9:59 AM, divanz620@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Thanks Colin,

Yes pic please....also what exact model of P79 did you install ...did you connect it to B&G Hydra, or something else?
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437




--
Colin Streeter
0411 016 445



--
Colin Streeter
0411 016 445


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Sonic Speed Replacement

Colin - ex SV Island Pearl
 

Alan, no problem I will go down to the boat today and send you a pic direct after. Also Hanspeter was still wanting one regarding the mizzen mast cameras so will get a pic of that too for him direct too.

The P79 goes directly into my Raymarine ES97 at the helm. The cable they come with isn't long enough to get much past the Nav station so I had my electronics guy extend that cable all the way to the helm. In our case this is only really a 2nd backup depth sounder so I generally don't have it on (ie plugged in to the back of the Raymarine unit) unless we are in shallow water here, travelling between sand banks slowly into shallower water as it is a good 1.5m - 2m in front of the original depth sounder, so a really nice early warning system ahead of the normal sounder before actually hitting the many sand banks here in Moreton Bay.

I should add, apart from saving power, the other reason we don't have the P79 on all the time is because of the faint clicking noises it makes when on. Could possibly annoy someone sleeping up front.

Colin, Island Pearl II
SM#332


On Sun, Feb 19, 2017 at 9:59 AM, divanz620@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Thanks Colin,

Yes pic please....also what exact model of P79 did you install ...did you connect it to B&G Hydra, or something else?
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437




--
Colin Streeter
0411 016 445


Re: Aft Head Leak

Duane Siegfri
 

Bill,

I had the same thought (bit of velcrow at the bottom of the curtain), now comes the part where I have to put thoughts into action...preferably sooner!

Duane


Re: Sonic Speed Replacement

Alan Leslie
 

Also Bill,
Did you connect the P79 to the B&G Hydra system ?
If so, which model P79 did you install ?
Thanks 
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Sonic Speed Replacement

Alan Leslie
 

Thanks Colin,
Yes pic please....also what exact model of P79 did you install ...did you connect it to B&G Hydra, or something else?
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Sonic Speed Replacement

Colin - ex SV Island Pearl
 

Alan
We put a P79 right in the front of the front cabin under floor area as a second depth sounder almost 2m infront of the Amel original next to fwd head. Works great, will send you a pic if interested.
Colin
Island Pearl II #332
Brisbane

On 19 Feb 2017 8:34 AM, "divanz620@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Thanks Bill,

That sounds like a good solution.
Where on the hull did you install the P79 ?
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Re: Sonic Speed Replacement

Alan Leslie
 

Thanks Bill,
That sounds like a good solution.
Where on the hull did you install the P79 ?
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Re: Insurance (2016/7) - Single handed coverage??

Derick Gates SM2K #400 Brava
 

I have Pantaenius US insurance with geographic restrictions (cannot go to Haiti, Venezuela, Panama Canal or Cuba, above 52 degrees North latitude or below 7 degrees North latitude or east of 50 degrees West longitude) but otherwise good for US East and Gulf coasts and all of the Caribbean.  There is a named tropical storm plan requirement from July 15 through November 1, which I have filed as being strapped into a steel cradle in Antigua.  This plan earned from Pantaenius US a 5% deductible for hurricane/TS damage.

There is no singlehanded restriction of any sort.  I am allowed a part time paid crew for up to 90 days. Total agreed fixed value is $415,000 for which the premium is $6501.50.   I also carry a 1 million dollar liability coverage for an additional  $650.00.  I have in almost 4 years of ownership submitted no claims, and Pantaenius US has renewed like clockwork every May.

Derick Gates
SM2K#400 Brava
Currently in Sapphire Beach Marina, St. Thomas, USVI


Sonic Speed Replacement

greatketch@...
 

I installed an Airmar CS4500 in the hole where the old B&G depth transducer was, and for depth readings, used an Airmar P79 in-hull transducer.  So we kept full functionality--and put no new holes in the hull.

The CS4500 is an ultrasonic speed device that operates on a different principle than the sonic speed unit. I decided to try it because it is less susceptible to biofouling than the standard paddle wheel, and, at least in specification, gives the superior low speed (< 1kt)  performance that the sonic unit was so good at.

So far, I am moderately happy. At normal sailing speeds it is not more accurate than a clean well maintained paddlewheel, but it is not claimed to be. Low speed performance is good, measuring down to 0.1 knots to help with sail trim and distance logging on those SLOW days, a situation where most paddlewheels struggle.

I no longer have to fret that my distance log will have a brain freeze every time I turn the inverter on (like the sonic speed) It does not need to be cleaned on a frequent basis like a paddle wheel. I don't have to worry about a little piece of flotsam interrupting my distance log. Since the reason for replacement of the sonic speed was to improve reliability from that side of things it's all a win.

The raw data of speed measurement does tend to bounce around a bit, requiring a higher damping factor on display than I would prefer, but the data output give good results from my chartplotter's calculation of true wind, and current set and drift. To be fair, I have no idea what internal damping B&G has on the sonic speed data.  Certainly the damped response of the CS4500 does not look dramatically slower than the B&G.

If I was a buoy racer looking for fast and stable instantaneous readouts to help me make minor sail trim adjustments, I'd might be unhappy, but that's not me. A reliable distance log for navigation is my priority and this setup seems to be doing the job. 

Bill Kinney
SM#160 Harmonie
Providenciales, Turks and Caicos Islands
Under way today (we hope!) for Mayaguez, PR


---In amelyachtowners@..., <divanz620@...> wrote :

Hi Bill,

We get the travel lift slings placed in line with the masts.

re the sonic speed....mine is totally unreliable also...I was thinking of putting in an Airmar thru hull sonic sensor....I believe B&G once offered this device in their options for Hydra / Hercules.

What did you replace the B&G sonic system with ?

Cheers
Alan 
Elyse SM437


Re: Hauling the boat - strap locations

Alan Leslie
 

Hi Bill,

We get the travel lift slings placed in line with the masts.

re the sonic speed....mine is totally unreliable also...I was thinking of putting in an Airmar thru hull sonic sensor....I believe B&G once offered this device in their options for Hydra / Hercules.

What did you replace the B&G sonic system with ?

Cheers
Alan 
Elyse SM437


Re: Hauling the boat - strap locations

greatketch@...
 

Lifting with the strap as far back against the keel as it could go worked for us and cleared both the sonic speed transducers.  

To be honest, I actually wasn't all that worried about the sonic speed. It had become quite unreliable. One of the projects for that haulout was to install a backup speed device-- has now become our primary speed and log as the sonic has become so flaky as to be worthless as a practical navigation tool.  

Our next haulout will see the sonic speed log removed and the holes in the hull patched. It was one of those things that was just awesome--when it worked.

Bill Kinney
SM#160 Harmonie
Providenciales, Turks and Caicos Islands
Ready to move south and east...



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Hauling the boat - strap locations

eric freedman
 

Duane,

I had Amel put sling marks on Kimberlite when she was made. You might add a set when you haul

your boat.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2017 6:21 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Hauling the boat - strap locations

 

 

Thanks for the reply Bill and Joel.  The lift went fine.

 

On #477 the sonic speed transducer is about even with the back of the forward lifting plate, and the depth transducer is two feet forward of that, about at the back of the fwd head hatch.  It seems the right place for the forward strap is at the fwd lower shroud for the main mast so it doesn't lift on either of those transducers.  

 

I can see how you could put the fwd strap at the root of the keel, but I would have the operator incline the strap aft so it doesn't try to ride against the sonic speed transducer.

 

Duane


Re: Hauling the boat - strap locations

Duane Siegfri
 

Thanks for the reply Bill and Joel.  The lift went fine.

On #477 the sonic speed transducer is about even with the back of the forward lifting plate, and the depth transducer is two feet forward of that, about at the back of the fwd head hatch.  It seems the right place for the forward strap is at the fwd lower shroud for the main mast so it doesn't lift on either of those transducers.  

I can see how you could put the fwd strap at the root of the keel, but I would have the operator incline the strap aft so it doesn't try to ride against the sonic speed transducer.

Duane


Popping sound from Thomson clothes washer

Derick Gates SM2K #400 Brava
 

I have recently begun to hear a loud popping noise from the Thomson clothes washer.  Only one to three times per laundry run, but consistently in the last three laundry runs.  Anyone else experience this?


I suspect a capacitor is going bad.


Derick Gates

Super Maramu 2000 #400

Brava

Currently in Saint Thomas, USVI