Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Smoking Gun...

hanspeter baettig
 

To all
Sorry I fogot something. Not to get the impression I'm too old to patricipate in this forum with technical questions . I bought Tamango 2 when I was 38 years old.
Hanspeter
Tamango 2
SM 16

Von meinem iPad gesendet

Am 20.02.2017 um 22:03 schrieb 'Hanspeter.baettig' hanspeter.baettig@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

To all and specially to the new Amel Owners
Do not what Jeff Spirt is telling us. Absolutly nonsens. Keep your engine in moderate motoring conditions. Not motoring days with full speed. Advice; independent which engine; after lets say 10 hours of motoring or more( 1800-2200 rmp) ,I incease the rmp to 2600-2800 ( my engine) for about 5-10 min. This is to avoide the turbo will stoke sometimes with carbon dust.   My engine is 27 years old, 3200 h, Perkins T80.
Also I do not understand that you have not excellent Volvo mecanicans in the East Cost of US. Volvo is one of the leaders in marine engines and not only with cars. ( I 'm not Swedish, I'm Swiss 😉)
Keep loving sailing
Hanspeter
SM Owner with the same boat since 1995
SM16
Tamango 2

Von meinem iPad gesendet

Am 20.02.2017 um 15:43 schrieb JEFFREY KRAUS jmkraus@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Porter,
I am by no means an expert, but putting a combination of 30,000 some odd hours turning a combination of a Detroit 671, a cummins qsl 9 (electronic motor), and a cat 3406 aboard my various draggers, along with a 80hp ford lehman aboard my oyster barge, not counting Spirit with it's Volvo 110 d3, I've seen my share of black smoke.
Diesels are meant to be run, and run hard.
Best advise, run your boat like you're stealing it 15 minutes every day.
I normally see a puff of black smoke whenever I start up my dragger , especially in colder weather. Can't say I've seen it happen when I start up the Volvo aboard Spirit.
As a side note:
I had a Volvo guy aboard Spirit while in Charleston back in January, due to an electrical issue with the motor. He explained to me that the first production of the 110 d3 is somewhat of a mystery to many Volvo technicians. The motor is a bit of a hermaphrodite(sp?). The service manager himself came aboard to work on the motor. He located the short.
Good Luck!

Jeff Spirit Amel 54 #14






On Sun, Feb 19, 2017 at 08:15 PM, Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 

I should have added to the initial post. The day of the "puff" was in the middle of a multi month long sail for the owner. Just first start of that day.  The engine had been run every day for months. 

Speaking c JP he confirms a quite knowledgeable Volvo diesel mechanic runs a Volvo aftermarket shop in the marina in la Marin in Martinique 

I would imagine he'd have good insight. 

Thanks again. 

Porter




On Feb 19, 2017, at 5:05 PM, biohead@... [amelyachtowne rs] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Mark,
Agreed. I took Dave's concerns not as a diagnosis of cause but just noting an irregularity. Since then I have run both engines many times and not seen a repeat of the survey puff and sheen...so I think I am ok. Porter will need to look at the recent run time history of the boat to see if this is just an artifact of an unused vessel that will go away with more frequent activity.

Oh, and Mark, thank you for reccomending Dave. He was great.

Regards, John
Vent de Soleil SM37
Le Marin


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Need to replace Isotemp Basic 40 - how to get it out?

Duane Siegfri
 

Bill,

I'm uploadinEg a video, may take a while though.

I don't see an accumulator anywhere around the water heater.  I can feel the water leak from the bottom to the top (opposite the connections) of the heater.  The top joint has some pretty obvious water leaks.  I can see a drip every three seconds when looking aft under the generator coming from the lower mounting point of the genny.

I'd appreciate the removal instructions.

All the best from Peggy and I,
Duane
Wanderer, SM#477

Equipment failures are wonderful teachers, when accompanied by beer...


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Smoking Gun...

hanspeter baettig
 

To all and specially to the new Amel Owners
Do not what Jeff Spirt is telling us. Absolutly nonsens. Keep your engine in moderate motoring conditions. Not motoring days with full speed. Advice; independent which engine; after lets say 10 hours of motoring or more( 1800-2200 rmp) ,I incease the rmp to 2600-2800 ( my engine) for about 5-10 min. This is to avoide the turbo will stoke sometimes with carbon dust.   My engine is 27 years old, 3200 h, Perkins T80.
Also I do not understand that you have not excellent Volvo mecanicans in the East Cost of US. Volvo is one of the leaders in marine engines and not only with cars. ( I 'm not Swedish, I'm Swiss 😉)
Keep loving sailing
Hanspeter
SM Owner with the same boat since 1995
SM16
Tamango 2

Von meinem iPad gesendet

Am 20.02.2017 um 15:43 schrieb JEFFREY KRAUS jmkraus@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Porter,
I am by no means an expert, but putting a combination of 30,000 some odd hours turning a combination of a Detroit 671, a cummins qsl 9 (electronic motor), and a cat 3406 aboard my various draggers, along with a 80hp ford lehman aboard my oyster barge, not counting Spirit with it's Volvo 110 d3, I've seen my share of black smoke.
Diesels are meant to be run, and run hard.
Best advise, run your boat like you're stealing it 15 minutes every day.
I normally see a puff of black smoke whenever I start up my dragger , especially in colder weather. Can't say I've seen it happen when I start up the Volvo aboard Spirit.
As a side note:
I had a Volvo guy aboard Spirit while in Charleston back in January, due to an electrical issue with the motor. He explained to me that the first production of the 110 d3 is somewhat of a mystery to many Volvo technicians. The motor is a bit of a hermaphrodite(sp?). The service manager himself came aboard to work on the motor. He located the short.
Good Luck!

Jeff Spirit Amel 54 #14






On Sun, Feb 19, 2017 at 08:15 PM, Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 

I should have added to the initial post. The day of the "puff" was in the middle of a multi month long sail for the owner. Just first start of that day.  The engine had been run every day for months. 

Speaking c JP he confirms a quite knowledgeable Volvo diesel mechanic runs a Volvo aftermarket shop in the marina in la Marin in Martinique 

I would imagine he'd have good insight. 

Thanks again. 

Porter




On Feb 19, 2017, at 5:05 PM, biohead@... [amelyachtowne rs] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Mark,
Agreed. I took Dave's concerns not as a diagnosis of cause but just noting an irregularity. Since then I have run both engines many times and not seen a repeat of the survey puff and sheen...so I think I am ok. Porter will need to look at the recent run time history of the boat to see if this is just an artifact of an unused vessel that will go away with more frequent activity.

Oh, and Mark, thank you for reccomending Dave. He was great.

Regards, John
Vent de Soleil SM37
Le Marin


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Need to replace Isotemp Basic 40 - how to get it out?

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Duane, 

Before you remove the water heater, have you checked the expansion tank which is located behind the water heater...it probably has a hole in it.

Let me know.

I will send you instructions for replacing the water heater.

Bill
X-BeBe
Galveston

On Mon, Feb 20, 2017 at 2:21 PM, sailor63109@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

I have a water leak near the top (opposite the connections) of the water heater.  The connections are not leaking!  I assume the leak is in the tank, so a replacement is in order.


In looking over how to get this 16" diameter by 25" long object out, it looks like I have to remove the wiring box for the Onan Genset (where the breakers are).


Is there any other way?


Anyone else have a leak near the top of the water heater?  I have a glimmer of a hope there's a seal there that's blown but I'm doubtful.


Thanks,

Duane

Wanderer SM#477


Learning all the boats systems one failure at a time!



Need to replace Isotemp Basic 40 - how to get it out?

Duane Siegfri
 

I have a water leak near the top (opposite the connections) of the water heater.  The connections are not leaking!  I assume the leak is in the tank, so a replacement is in order.


In looking over how to get this 16" diameter by 25" long object out, it looks like I have to remove the wiring box for the Onan Genset (where the breakers are).


Is there any other way?


Anyone else have a leak near the top of the water heater?  I have a glimmer of a hope there's a seal there that's blown but I'm doubtful.


Thanks,

Duane

Wanderer SM#477


Learning all the boats systems one failure at a time!


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Smoking Gun...

JEFFREY KRAUS
 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Smoking Gun...

James Alton
 

John,
  
   I think that some smoke with diesels on a cold start is normal.  I notice this a lot when laying up boats in Nova Scotia with temperatures that are quite low on Yanmar, Westerbeke, Cummins and the Perkins engines that I am familiar with.     I have always assumed that this was a function of the thermal mass of the engine cooling the combustion gases to a temperature that prevented all of the fuel being burned.  The fact that more throttle is required during these very cold starts to hold an rpm seems to support this.  

   Good detective work on figuring out the cause of the white smoke on your engine.

James Alton
SV Sueno,  Maramu #220
Sardinia,  Italy

On Feb 19, 2017, at 9:28 PM, jjjk12s@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Hi Porter,

 

Ah, the great thing about a mechanical fuel pump - you know that the black smoke is meant to be there ;) 

 

But more seriously, it's interesting that the smoke is on cold start and not also warm start and that the engine is in proper use. Presumably you can easily rule out a number of usual factors that may be possibilities on a mechanical engine. I wonder where the boat is?

 

Similar to what Bill said, I wonder if the computer has a special setting for cold start, in effect the combination of injection timing, number of injections per stroke and fuel amount (plus glow plug if relevant) and that in a warm climate it isn't necessary and produces too much fuel for just a moment. Just a guess.

 

Separately, I am more than happy to be corrected, but I thought black smoke is inefficiently burnt fuel. Unburnt fuel produces white smoke. I've had an engine with a ho le in the valve leading to no compression in one cylinder and hence no combustion and lots of white smoke. The cylinder at fault was easy to identify by disconnecting the fuel line to each injector one at a time until the smoke stopped when no fuel was going to the cylinder at fault. Sure enough, when the head was taken off there was a hole about 2 mm across at the edge of a valve.  

 

Regards

John, Popeye, Maramu #91




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Smoking Gun...

Mark Erdos
 

Hi John,

 

You are correct, both white smoke and black smoke can indicate fuel issues. White smoke typically points to unburned fuel in the cylinder chamber. White smoke issues tend to be more serious than black smoke as they are normally mechanically related. Of course, none of this is pure science when I comes to diagnosing an engine. It is merely a start point.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currenlty cruising - Cambridge Cay- Exuma Islands, Bahamas

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2017 9:29 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Smoking Gun...

 

 

Hi Porter,

 

Ah, the great thing about a mechanical fuel pump - you know that the black smoke is meant to be there ;)

 

But more seriously, it's interesting that the smoke is on cold start and not also warm start and that the engine is in proper use. Presumably you can easily rule out a number of usual factors that may be possibilities on a mechanical engine. I wonder where the boat is?

 

Similar to what Bill said, I wonder if the computer has a special setting for cold start, in effect the combination of injection timing, number of injections per stroke and fuel amount (plus glow plug if relevant) and that in a warm climate it isn't necessary and produces too much fuel for just a moment. Just a guess.

 

Separately, I am more than happy to be corrected, but I thought black smoke is inefficiently burnt fuel. Unburnt fuel produces white smoke. I've had an engine with a hole in the valve leading to no compression in one cylinder and hence no combustion and lots of white smoke. The cylinder at fault was easy to identify by disconnecting the fuel line to each injector one at a time until the smoke stopped when no fuel was going to the cylinder at fault. Sure enough, when the head was taken off there was a hole about 2 mm across at the edge of a valve. 

 

Regards

John, Popeye, Maramu #91


Re: Smoking Gun...

jjjk12s@...
 

Hi Porter,

 

Ah, the great thing about a mechanical fuel pump - you know that the black smoke is meant to be there ;)

 

But more seriously, it's interesting that the smoke is on cold start and not also warm start and that the engine is in proper use. Presumably you can easily rule out a number of usual factors that may be possibilities on a mechanical engine. I wonder where the boat is?

 

Similar to what Bill said, I wonder if the computer has a special setting for cold start, in effect the combination of injection timing, number of injections per stroke and fuel amount (plus glow plug if relevant) and that in a warm climate it isn't necessary and produces too much fuel for just a moment. Just a guess.

 

Separately, I am more than happy to be corrected, but I thought black smoke is inefficiently burnt fuel. Unburnt fuel produces white smoke. I've had an engine with a hole in the valve leading to no compression in one cylinder and hence no combustion and lots of white smoke. The cylinder at fault was easy to identify by disconnecting the fuel line to each injector one at a time until the smoke stopped when no fuel was going to the cylinder at fault. Sure enough, when the head was taken off there was a hole about 2 mm across at the edge of a valve. 

 

Regards

John, Popeye, Maramu #91


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Sonic Speed Replacement

Peter Jaeger
 

Hi Collin
I am interssted in your pics, an upload would be great.
Thx
Peter
SY Wilson / SM #003
La Rochelle


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Smoking Gun...

Porter McRoberts <portermcroberts@...>
 

I should have added to the initial post. The day of the "puff" was in the middle of a multi month long sail for the owner. Just first start of that day.  The engine had been run every day for months. 

Speaking c JP he confirms a quite knowledgeable Volvo diesel mechanic runs a Volvo aftermarket shop in the marina in la Marin in Martinique 

I would imagine he'd have good insight. 

Thanks again. 

Porter




On Feb 19, 2017, at 5:05 PM, biohead@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Mark,
Agreed. I took Dave's concerns not as a diagnosis of cause but just noting an irregularity. Since then I have run both engines many times and not seen a repeat of the survey puff and sheen...so I think I am ok. Porter will need to look at the recent run time history of the boat to see if this is just an artifact of an unused vessel that will go away with more frequent activity.

Oh, and Mark, thank you for reccomending Dave. He was great.

Regards, John
Vent de Soleil SM37
Le Marin


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Smoking Gun...

John Clark
 

Hi Mark,
Agreed. I took Dave's concerns not as a diagnosis of cause but just noting an irregularity. Since then I have run both engines many times and not seen a repeat of the survey puff and sheen...so I think I am ok. Porter will need to look at the recent run time history of the boat to see if this is just an artifact of an unused vessel that will go away with more frequent activity.

Oh, and Mark, thank you for reccomending Dave. He was great.

Regards, John
Vent de Soleil SM37
Le Marin


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Smoking Gun...

John Clark
 

Hi Porter and Bill...and everyone,
I have been off line getting acclimated to SM37 in Martinique. Just this week getting time to pop my head up.

Porter aren't you looking at a newer Amel with the Yanmar engine? It might behave differently. My Volvo TMD22 does not smoke at all ever. That said the SM berthed next to me has a black sooty smear all over the side of boat...Amel mechanical have been working on it all week...smoke is probably not good..but if it is only at start up it may not be critical.

Dave "our" surveyor was concerned when the generator put out a puff and a bit of oil sheen when started during survey. ..but we learned the genny had not been run in three months. He was ok with it. Never saw either again.

Regards, John
Vent de Soleil. SM37
Le Marin


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Smoking Gun...

Mark Erdos
 

Porter,

 

Also, keep in mind Dave Huffman is not a mechanic. He will note the engine puts out a black cloud of smoke at start up (if he sees it) but will not determine cause. Dave is an excellent surveyor. He surveyed Cream Puff at the time of our purchase and was very comprehensive. We have recommended him to others and all seem to be happy with his work. Tell him we said hi.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currenlty cruising - Cambridge Cay- Exuma Islands, Bahamas

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2017 1:40 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Smoking Gun...

 

 

That's comforting. To say the least!  
I'll be sure to check. 

 

Many thanks Mark

 



On Feb 19, 2017, at 12:03 PM, 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Porter,

 

The good news it is definitely not the turbo charger. When the turbo charger goes out you will lack RPM and put out a huge cloud of black smoke with a warm engine (ask me how I know this).

 

A lot of diesels will puff a little black smoke at start. It is an indication of fuel not being burned. It can be due to any number of things such as air in the fuel line or poor fuel quality. When was the last time the fuel filters were changed? (note I said “filters” with an S). Most likely your issue, if you have an issue, is fuel related.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currenlty cruising – Cambridge Cay- Exuma Islands, Bahamas

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2017 11:16 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Smoking Gun...

 

 

Good Sunday morning you Oracles!

Just took Nigel Calder’s Diesel class.  Fascinating.  
I think humans are less complex!

Anyway quick question.  We are in the process of working through buying what seems like a great 2010 54.  

But…  did notice a big puff of black smoke on cold start up while visiting the boat.  Lasted 5 seconds then cleared up.. Owner said no problem.  Nigel disagreed.  He said on a common-rail like the Volvo D3-110 it indicates something serious.  "Always.”

Warm starts seem ok.  The remainder of the trip no smoke. I am sorry that I haven’t spent enough time in the engine room yet to have more details.  

Clearly it's a mixture issue, possible turbo?  

Any thoughts?  I am going down with Dave Huffman in a few weeks.

Always so very appreciated.

Porter

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Smoking Gun...

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

As always Bill, on the button.
Danny



From: "'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners]"
To: "amelyachtowners@..."
Sent: Monday, 20 February 2017 8:29 AM
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Smoking Gun...

 
Porter,  

I hope that you do not mind receiving comments that do dot definitively solve your issue. Here are some of my thoughts:

I think Nigel Calder know something about a lot of things, and I sometimes disagree with him, especially when he uses generalizations and absolutes.

As Mark said, black smoke is an indication of unburnt diesel. The Volvo D3-110 computer and sensors appear to me to be one of the most misunderstood and most criticized systems in the marine business. It is extremely difficult to find a Volvo certified mechanic that completely understands the computer logic, controls and the sensors. Most of them repair these engines using the "bingo method" of repair which is they start replacing parts until they eventually "bingo." 

Someone needs to fully understand the Volvo system to find the answer. I certainly do not and I do not intend to learn it.

That said, I am betting that the Volvo D3-110 computer primes during the beginning of the start cycle and that this increase of diesel at startup may be normal to a limit, but I do not know the limit, not do I know what controls the limit and if it is adjustable. I believe that once the engine has started the Volvo sensors and computer work together to ensure that the engine is not over-fueled...this eliminates the cause of the black smoke you see at starting.

You state that Calder said, "...it indicates something serious...always.” This is the type of absolute statement that really bothers me about him, because it tells you nothing...what is "serious?" My serious and your serious may be two completely different things. And, "...always" is not possible in the marine business except that things are "always" unpredictable. I know a lot of people like Calder, and he knows a lot more than me, but it is things like this that are very troubling to me, but not "always."

Best,

Bill
X-BeBe
Galveston, Texas

On Sun, Feb 19, 2017 at 12:40 PM, Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
That's comforting. To say the least!  
I'll be sure to check. 

Many thanks Mark



On Feb 19, 2017, at 12:03 PM, 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups. com> wrote:

 
Porter,
 
The good news it is definitely not the turbo charger. When the turbo charger goes out you will lack RPM and put out a huge cloud of black smoke with a warm engine (ask me how I know this).
 
A lot of diesels will puff a little black smoke at start. It is an indication of fuel not being burned. It can be due to any number of things such as air in the fuel line or poor fuel quality. When was the last time the fuel filters were changed? (note I said “filters” with an S). Most likely your issue, if you have an issue, is fuel related.
 
 
With best regards,
 
Mark
 
Skipper
Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275
Currenlty cruising – Cambridge Cay- Exuma Islands, Bahamas
 
From: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups. com [mailto:amelyachtowners@ yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2017 11:16 AM
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups. com
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Smoking Gun...
 
 
Good Sunday morning you Oracles!

Just took Nigel Calder’s Diesel class.  Fascinating.  
I think humans are less complex!

Anyway quick question.  We are in the process of working through buying what seems like a great 2010 54.  

But…  did notice a big puff of black smoke on cold start up while visiting the boat.  Lasted 5 seconds then cleared up.. Owner said no problem.  Nigel disagreed.  He said on a common-rail like the Volvo D3-110 it indicates something serious.  "Always.”

Warm starts seem ok.  The remainder of the trip no smoke. I am sorry that I haven’t spent enough time in the engine room yet to have more details.  

Clearly it's a mixture issue, possible turbo?  

Any thoughts?  I am going down with Dave Huffman in a few weeks.

Always so very appreciated.

Porter
 




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Smoking Gun...

W Porter McRoberts <portermcroberts@...>
 

Bill- No I do not mind in the least!!!

All comments very much appreciated! I think once we get under there other findings may elucidate the nature and seriousness of the problem. A Volvo computer check would be helpful i think too.  

Interesting that you state even a Volvo mechanic would not implicitly “fully understand the Volvo system.” 
Thats a little disconcerting.  

I really appreciate it. 

Thanks amigo.

Porter










On Feb 19, 2017, at 2:29 PM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Porter,  

I hope that you do not mind receiving comments that do dot definitively solve your issue. Here are some of my thoughts:

I think Nigel Calder know something about a lot of things, and I sometimes disagree with him, especially when he uses generalizations and absolutes.

As Mark said, black smoke is an indication of unburnt diesel. The Volvo D3-110 computer and sensors appear to me to be one of the most misunderstood and most criticized systems in the marine business. It is extremely difficult to find a Volvo certified mechanic that completely understands the computer logic, controls and the sensors. Most of them repair these engines using the "bingo method" of repair which is they start replacing parts until they eventually "bingo." 

Someone needs to fully understand the Volvo system to find the answer. I certainly do not and I do not intend to learn it.

That said, I am betting that the Volvo D3-110 computer primes during the beginning of the start cycle and that this increase of diesel at startup may be normal to a limit, but I do not know the limit, not do I know what controls the limit and if it is adjustable. I believe that once the engine has started the Volvo sensors and computer work together to ensure that the engine is not over-fueled...this eliminates the cause of the black smoke you see at starting.

You state that Calder said, "...it indicates something serious...always.” This is the type of absolute statement that really bothers me about him, because it tells you nothing...what is "serious?" My serious and your serious may be two completely different things. And, "...always" is not possible in the marine business except that things are "always" unpredictable. I know a lot of people like Calder, and he knows a lot more than me, but it is things like this that are very troubling to me, but not "always."

Best,

Bill
X-BeBe
Galveston, Texas

On Sun, Feb 19, 2017 at 12:40 PM, Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>wrote:
 

That's comforting. To say the least!  
I'll be sure to check. 

Many thanks Mark



On Feb 19, 2017, at 12:03 PM, 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Porter,

 

The good news it is definitely not the turbo charger. When the turbo charger goes out you will lack RPM and put out a huge cloud of black smoke with a warm engine (ask me how I know this).

 

A lot of diesels will puff a little black smoke at start. It is an indication of fuel not being burned. It can be due to any number of things such as air in the fuel line or poor fuel quality. When was the last time the fuel filters were changed? (note I said “filters” with an S). Most likely your issue, if you have an issue, is fuel related.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currenlty cruising – Cambridge Cay- Exuma Islands, Bahamas

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com [mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com] 
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2017 11:16 AM
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Smoking Gun...

 

  

Good Sunday morning you Oracles!

Just took Nigel Calder’s Diesel class.  Fascinating.  
I think humans are less complex!

Anyway quick question.  We are in the process of working through buying what seems like a great 2010 54.  

But…  did notice a big puff of black smoke on cold start up while visiting the boat.  Lasted 5 seconds then cleared up.. Owner said no problem.  Nigel disagreed.  He said on a common-rail like the Volvo D3-110 it indicates something serious.  "Always.”

Warm starts seem ok.  The remainder of the trip no smoke. I am sorry that I haven’t spent enough time in the engine room yet to have more details.  

Clearly it's a mixture issue, possible turbo?  

Any thoughts?  I am going down with Dave Huffman in a few weeks.

Always so very appreciated.

Porter

 







Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Smoking Gun...

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Porter,  

I hope that you do not mind receiving comments that do dot definitively solve your issue. Here are some of my thoughts:

I think Nigel Calder know something about a lot of things, and I sometimes disagree with him, especially when he uses generalizations and absolutes.

As Mark said, black smoke is an indication of unburnt diesel. The Volvo D3-110 computer and sensors appear to me to be one of the most misunderstood and most criticized systems in the marine business. It is extremely difficult to find a Volvo certified mechanic that completely understands the computer logic, controls and the sensors. Most of them repair these engines using the "bingo method" of repair which is they start replacing parts until they eventually "bingo." 

Someone needs to fully understand the Volvo system to find the answer. I certainly do not and I do not intend to learn it.

That said, I am betting that the Volvo D3-110 computer primes during the beginning of the start cycle and that this increase of diesel at startup may be normal to a limit, but I do not know the limit, not do I know what controls the limit and if it is adjustable. I believe that once the engine has started the Volvo sensors and computer work together to ensure that the engine is not over-fueled...this eliminates the cause of the black smoke you see at starting.

You state that Calder said, "...it indicates something serious...always.” This is the type of absolute statement that really bothers me about him, because it tells you nothing...what is "serious?" My serious and your serious may be two completely different things. And, "...always" is not possible in the marine business except that things are "always" unpredictable. I know a lot of people like Calder, and he knows a lot more than me, but it is things like this that are very troubling to me, but not "always."

Best,

Bill
X-BeBe
Galveston, Texas

On Sun, Feb 19, 2017 at 12:40 PM, Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

That's comforting. To say the least!  
I'll be sure to check. 

Many thanks Mark



On Feb 19, 2017, at 12:03 PM, 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Porter,

 

The good news it is definitely not the turbo charger. When the turbo charger goes out you will lack RPM and put out a huge cloud of black smoke with a warm engine (ask me how I know this).

 

A lot of diesels will puff a little black smoke at start. It is an indication of fuel not being burned. It can be due to any number of things such as air in the fuel line or poor fuel quality. When was the last time the fuel filters were changed? (note I said “filters” with an S). Most likely your issue, if you have an issue, is fuel related.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currenlty cruising – Cambridge Cay- Exuma Islands, Bahamas

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com [mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2017 11:16 AM
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Smoking Gun...

 

 

Good Sunday morning you Oracles!

Just took Nigel Calder’s Diesel class.  Fascinating.  
I think humans are less complex!

Anyway quick question.  We are in the process of working through buying what seems like a great 2010 54.  

But…  did notice a big puff of black smoke on cold start up while visiting the boat.  Lasted 5 seconds then cleared up.. Owner said no problem.  Nigel disagreed.  He said on a common-rail like the Volvo D3-110 it indicates something serious.  "Always.”

Warm starts seem ok.  The remainder of the trip no smoke. I am sorry that I haven’t spent enough time in the engine room yet to have more details.  

Clearly it's a mixture issue, possible turbo?  

Any thoughts?  I am going down with Dave Huffman in a few weeks.

Always so very appreciated.

Porter

 



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Smoking Gun...

Porter McRoberts <portermcroberts@...>
 

That's comforting. To say the least!  
I'll be sure to check. 

Many thanks Mark



On Feb 19, 2017, at 12:03 PM, 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Porter,

 

The good news it is definitely not the turbo charger. When the turbo charger goes out you will lack RPM and put out a huge cloud of black smoke with a warm engine (ask me how I know this).

 

A lot of diesels will puff a little black smoke at start. It is an indication of fuel not being burned. It can be due to any number of things such as air in the fuel line or poor fuel quality. When was the last time the fuel filters were changed? (note I said “filters” with an S). Most likely your issue, if you have an issue, is fuel related.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currenlty cruising – Cambridge Cay- Exuma Islands, Bahamas

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2017 11:16 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Smoking Gun...

 

 

Good Sunday morning you Oracles!

Just took Nigel Calder’s Diesel class.  Fascinating.  
I think humans are less complex!

Anyway quick question.  We are in the process of working through buying what seems like a great 2010 54.  

But…  did notice a big puff of black smoke on cold start up while visiting the boat.  Lasted 5 seconds then cleared up.. Owner said no problem.  Nigel disagreed.  He said on a common-rail like the Volvo D3-110 it indicates something serious.  "Always.”

Warm starts seem ok.  The remainder of the trip no smoke. I am sorry that I haven’t spent enough time in the engine room yet to have more details.  

Clearly it's a mixture issue, possible turbo?  

Any thoughts?  I am going down with Dave Huffman in a few weeks.

Always so very appreciated.

Porter

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Smoking Gun...

Mark Erdos
 

Porter,

 

The good news it is definitely not the turbo charger. When the turbo charger goes out you will lack RPM and put out a huge cloud of black smoke with a warm engine (ask me how I know this).

 

A lot of diesels will puff a little black smoke at start. It is an indication of fuel not being burned. It can be due to any number of things such as air in the fuel line or poor fuel quality. When was the last time the fuel filters were changed? (note I said “filters” with an S). Most likely your issue, if you have an issue, is fuel related.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currenlty cruising – Cambridge Cay- Exuma Islands, Bahamas

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2017 11:16 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Smoking Gun...

 

 

Good Sunday morning you Oracles!

Just took Nigel Calder’s Diesel class.  Fascinating.  
I think humans are less complex!

Anyway quick question.  We are in the process of working through buying what seems like a great 2010 54.  

But…  did notice a big puff of black smoke on cold start up while visiting the boat.  Lasted 5 seconds then cleared up.. Owner said no problem.  Nigel disagreed.  He said on a common-rail like the Volvo D3-110 it indicates something serious.  "Always.”

Warm starts seem ok.  The remainder of the trip no smoke. I am sorry that I haven’t spent enough time in the engine room yet to have more details.  

Clearly it's a mixture issue, possible turbo?  

Any thoughts?  I am going down with Dave Huffman in a few weeks.

Always so very appreciated.

Porter

 


Smoking Gun...

portermcroberts@...
 

Good Sunday morning you Oracles!

Just took Nigel Calder’s Diesel class.  Fascinating.  
I think humans are less complex!

Anyway quick question.  We are in the process of working through buying what seems like a great 2010 54.  

But…  did notice a big puff of black smoke on cold start up while visiting the boat.  Lasted 5 seconds then cleared up.. Owner said no problem.  Nigel disagreed.  He said on a common-rail like the Volvo D3-110 it indicates something serious.  "Always.”

Warm starts seem ok.  The remainder of the trip no smoke. I am sorry that I haven’t spent enough time in the engine room yet to have more details.  

Clearly it's a mixture issue, possible turbo?  

Any thoughts?  I am going down with Dave Huffman in a few weeks.

Always so very appreciated.

Porter