Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Gel Coat Cracks adjacent to the backstays & other assorted questions

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Wow ! Impressive explanation! Always learning!

As always THANKS Joel for your input!

Sincerely, Alexandre



--------------------------------------------

On Fri, 3/10/17, 'Joel Potter' jfpottercys@att.net [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Gel Coat Cracks adjacent to the backstays & other assorted questions
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, March 10, 2017, 8:05 AM


 









I will answer in caps for
clarity  From: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Friday, March 10, 2017 7:07 AM
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Gel Coat
Cracks adjacent to the backstays & other assorted
questions    At the transom/hull joint on
both sides the gel coat is cracked from top to bottom.
 While we're in a boatyard I'm thinking of doing a
repair, so I'm soliciting suggestions on the repair
method. THE
REASON THE GEL COAT WILL CRACK IN THIS AREA ON ALL SUPER
MARAMUS IS SIMPLE. THE ACTUAL TRANSON ITSELF IS A SEPARATE
MOLDING FROM THE REST OF THE ONE PIECE HULL. THE TRANSOM IS
INSTALLED AFTER THE OTHERWISE COMPLETED HULL AND DECK
ASSEMBLY HAVE BEEN LAMINATED TOGETHER INTO ONE PIECE AND
REMOVED FROM THE MOLD. THE TRANSOM IS MOUNTED THEN LAMINATED
TO THE AFTER ENDS OF THE HULL AND DECK. AMEL DOES NOT DO
EVERYTHING ABSOLUTELY PERFECTLY. IN THIS CASE, AFTER THE
TRANSOM IS LAMINATED AND CURED, GEL COAT IS APPLIED TO THE
AREA WHERE THE EXTERIOR OF THE TRANSOM JOIN IS. AMEL SIMPLY
USED TOO THICK/TOO MUCH GEL COAT IN THIS AREA TO “FAIR AND
FLUSH FIT” THE EDGES OF THE TRANSOM. IN A MORE PERFECT
APPROACH, AN APPROVED FAIRING COMPOUND SHOULD BE USED, AND
THEN THE PROPER THICKNESS, ABOUT 20 MILS, OF GEL COAT,
SHOULD BE APPLIED.THE REASON THE GEL COAT CRACKS IS
BECAUSE IT IS VERY BRITTLE. WHEN APPLIED TOO THICKLY, IT
EXACERBATES THE TENDANCY TO CRACK AS IT BECOMES EVEN MORE
BRITTLE THE THICKER THE FINISHED GEL COAT SKIN
BECOMES.THE CRACKS BEGIN WHERE THE MIZZEN
BACKSTAYS ARE ATTACHED AS THIS IS A POINT LOADED AREA WHICH
ENCOURAGES THESE TYPES OF CRACKS. I HAVE NEVER SEEN THE
LAMINATE IN THIS AREA WHERE THE CRACKS APPEAR DAMAGED IN ANY
WAY BY THE MOUNTING OF THE MIZZEN BACKSTAYS THERE.  I HAVE
SEEN IT SEVERLY DAMAGED BY THE MOUNTING OF DAVITS,
SOLAR/RADAR ARCHES, AND POST MOUNTED WIND GENERATORS WITHOUT
PROPER REINFORCEMENT TO THE INSIDE OF THE
TRANSOM.IT IS EASY TO CHECK THE LAMINATE IN
THIS AREA FOR DAMAGE. AT NIGHT, TAKE A POWERFUL SEACHLAMP
AND HAVE A HELPER SHINE IT CLOSE TO BUT NOT TOUCHING ON THE
EXTERIOR OF THE TRANSOM-HULL JOIN WHILE YOU CLIMB INSIDE A
HOPEFULLY LESS THAN FULL STERN LOCKER. THE BRIGHT AND
POWERFUL LIGHT WILL ILLUMINATE THE LAMINATE JUST LIKE AN
X-RAY AS AMEL DID NOT APPLY ANY GEL COAT TO THE INSIDE OF
THE TRANSOM. IF THE LAMINATE IS DAMAGED, IT WILL APPEAR TO
HAVE MOVED AS INDEED THAT IS WHAT IT DOES WHEN IT FAILS.
HAVE A REAL EXPERT TAKE A LOOK IF YOU ARE NOT SURE.  COST
CUTTING? NOT AT ALL. THEY DIDN’T APPLY GEL COAT TO MAKE
THIS PANEL MORE TRANSLUCENT ALLOWING MORE LIGHT INTO AN AREA
WHICH WOULD BE OTHERWISE QUITE DARK. ALWAYS THINKING, THESE
AMEL PEOPLE! PLEASE, DO NOT TRY TO DO THIS BY YOURSELF BY
PLACING THE SEARCHLAMP DIRECTLY ON THE TRANSOM THEN CRAWLING
INSIDE AS YOU WILL SEE THE LAMINATE FAIL RIGHT BEFORE YOUR
EYES BECAUSE POLYESTER RESIN STARTS TO FAIL/CRYSTALIZE AT
175F AND WILL CATCH ON FIRE AS IT GASSES WITH THE
APPLICATION OF EXCESSIVE HEAT. TRUST ME. DON’T DO IT
ALONE.
   I've read here that these
cracks happen on most SM's, and looking from inside the
lazaret, it appears they are in the gel coat only.  I am a
bit concerned that these cracks were not reported on the
2015 pre-purchase Survey in any form, as if they weren't
there then.  I think they were there then, but don't
know if they have gotten worse.
DUANE, DESPITE THE DIFFICULTIES YOU HAVE EXPERIENCED WITH
YOUR BOAT, THE PREVIUOS OWNER WAS A STICKLER FOR SYSTEMS
MAINTENANCE AND COSMETIC UPKEEP. SINCE WE WERE GOING TO USE
THE BOAT AS OUR SHOWBOAT IN THE MIAMI BOAT SHOW, I HAD THE
CRACKS REPAIRED AS THIS COSMETIC ROUTINE WAS NOT HIDING
ANYTHING THAT WAS WRONG WITH THE LAMINATE. THE GEL COAT GUY
WAS EXPERIENCED. I TOLD HIM TO REALLY SAND DOWN THE OLD GEL
COAT IN HOPES THE NEW GEL COAT WOULD NOT BE TOO THICK AND
PRONE TO CRACKS. THERE WERE NO CRACKS THERE WHEN YOU AND PEG
BOUGHT YOUR BOAT, YOU DIDN’T MISS ANYTHING. HE JUST PUT ON
TOO MUCH GEL COAT. AGAIN.  The
fiberglass repairman working on the boat (collision damage)
suggested "radical surgery" including grinding off
the gel coat over a wide area on both sides of the crack,
adding fiberglass and then new gel coat.  His opinion was
if he just repaired the gel coat it would only crack again.
 Then he pointed out several areas where the gel coat had
been "touched up" to hide the crack, only to
subsequently crack in the same place. MY EARS PERK UP AND MY THINKING CAP
GETS PULLED ON TIGHT WHEN ANYONE SAYS ‘RADICAL’.   IF
HE SUGGESTED ADDING FIBERGLASS AFTER GRINDING OFF THE GEL
COAT, TO THE OUTSIDE, THAT WOULD BE A LESS THAN SATISFACTORY
REPAIR. ADD STRUCTURAL FIBERGLASS TO THE INSIDE OF THE
TRAMSOM WHERE A BETTER OVERLAP/MORE STRENGTH CAN BE
ACHIEVED. THIS IS ESSENTIAL IF ADDING THE AFOREMENTIONED
EQUIPMENT .  I can see there is some
water intrusion on the stbd side at the crack.  I'm
thinking of filling it with Marine-Tex. I don't want to
damage the structural laminates below, so any grinding/prep
would be limitied to opening the gel coat crack to 1/8"
or so.   <<<Any thoughts about
that?>>>IN MY
EXPERIENCES WITH THIS CHALLENGE, I HAVE FOUND THAT SANDING
THE GEL COAT OFF, CAREFULLY AND SLOWLY SO AS NOT TO CHEW
INTO STRUCTURAL LAMINATE, FOLLOWED BY PROPER APPLICATION OF
A COMPATABLE PRIMER FOLLOWED BY POLYUREATHANE PAINT WITH AN
ELASTOMER ADDITIVE MAKING IT VERY RESISTANT TO SURFACE
CRACKS WORKS NICELY AND LASTS A LONG TIME AS IT DOES NOT
OXIDIZE AS MUCH AS GEL COAT. THE ONLT NEGATIVE PAINT HAS TO
GEL COAT IN THIS APPLICATION IS THAT GEL COAT CAN BE SANDED
IF SCRATHED, PAINT COMES OFF AND MUST BE REPAINTED. THE
PERFECT TIME TO DO THIS ALMOST PERMANENT REPAIR IS WHEN A
NEW OWNER BUYS THE BOAT AND RENAMES IT. IF THE PREVIUOS NAME
ON THE TRANSOM HAS BEEN THERE FOR YEARS, IT WILL BE PRETTY
HARD TO ELIMINATE THE GHOSTING THAT THE AREA UNDER WHERE THE
OLD NAME WAS. PAINTING THE ENTIRE TRANSOM KILLS TWO BIRDS
WITH ONE STONE.    I'll take some
photos after the sun comes up.    I'm up
early with sore muscles/joints after buffing and polishing
the boat the last three days, and I'm only half done!
 The red gel coat on the rubrail was terribly oxidized, but
I've been able to get it back to "pretty good"
with some aggressive rubbing compound and then a polishing
compound.  The bootstripe also got the same treatment and
looks great now.  I used the polishing compound on the
white gelcoat and that seemed to even out the color.  I
just started waxing! yesterday afternoon.  I've used
the Collinite Fleetwax before and it would last a year on a
freshwater lake.  I'll see how it goes in saltwater.
 <<<Does anyone have a favorite wax that makes
removing the diesel soot smudge easier?>>> DUANE, THAT’S WHAT HIGH SCHOOL DROP
OUT BOATYARD WORKERS ARE FOR. I WONT ARM WRESTLE YOU FOR A
FEW WEEKS…  One of the yard workers
recommended "Marykate On&Off Hull&Bottom
Cleaner" for the scum line.  It says it also removes
the diesel soot smudge.  I have had trouble removing that
smudge with ANY cleaner.  Last time I worked on that in the
water I had to use a rubbing compound by hand.
 <<<<Any recommendations on a
product?>>>>THAT
STUFF REALLY WORKS. SOME GEL COAT SUPPLIERS RECOMMEND
AGAINST USING IT. DON’T HAVE DEFINITVE ANSWER FOR YOU.
 Thanks,
MY PLEASUREDuane       
JOELWanderer, SM#477









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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Gel Coat Cracks adjacent to the backstays & other assorted questions

amelforme
 

I will answer in caps for clarity

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, March 10, 2017 7:07 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Gel Coat Cracks adjacent to the backstays & other assorted questions

 

 

At the transom/hull joint on both sides the gel coat is cracked from top to bottom.  While we're in a boatyard I'm thinking of doing a repair, so I'm soliciting suggestions on the repair method. THE REASON THE GEL COAT WILL CRACK IN THIS AREA ON ALL SUPER MARAMUS IS SIMPLE. THE ACTUAL TRANSON ITSELF IS A SEPARATE MOLDING FROM THE REST OF THE ONE PIECE HULL. THE TRANSOM IS INSTALLED AFTER THE OTHERWISE COMPLETED HULL AND DECK ASSEMBLY HAVE BEEN LAMINATED TOGETHER INTO ONE PIECE AND REMOVED FROM THE MOLD. THE TRANSOM IS MOUNTED THEN LAMINATED TO THE AFTER ENDS OF THE HULL AND DECK. AMEL DOES NOT DO EVERYTHING ABSOLUTELY PERFECTLY. IN THIS CASE, AFTER THE TRANSOM IS LAMINATED AND CURED, GEL COAT IS APPLIED TO THE AREA WHERE THE EXTERIOR OF THE TRANSOM JOIN IS. AMEL SIMPLY USED TOO THICK/TOO MUCH GEL COAT IN THIS AREA TO “FAIR AND FLUSH FIT” THE EDGES OF THE TRANSOM. IN A MORE PERFECT APPROACH, AN APPROVED FAIRING COMPOUND SHOULD BE USED, AND THEN THE PROPER THICKNESS, ABOUT 20 MILS, OF GEL COAT, SHOULD BE APPLIED.

THE REASON THE GEL COAT CRACKS IS BECAUSE IT IS VERY BRITTLE. WHEN APPLIED TOO THICKLY, IT EXACERBATES THE TENDANCY TO CRACK AS IT BECOMES EVEN MORE BRITTLE THE THICKER THE FINISHED GEL COAT SKIN BECOMES.

THE CRACKS BEGIN WHERE THE MIZZEN BACKSTAYS ARE ATTACHED AS THIS IS A POINT LOADED AREA WHICH ENCOURAGES THESE TYPES OF CRACKS. I HAVE NEVER SEEN THE LAMINATE IN THIS AREA WHERE THE CRACKS APPEAR DAMAGED IN ANY WAY BY THE MOUNTING OF THE MIZZEN BACKSTAYS THERE.  I HAVE SEEN IT SEVERLY DAMAGED BY THE MOUNTING OF DAVITS, SOLAR/RADAR ARCHES, AND POST MOUNTED WIND GENERATORS WITHOUT PROPER REINFORCEMENT TO THE INSIDE OF THE TRANSOM.

IT IS EASY TO CHECK THE LAMINATE IN THIS AREA FOR DAMAGE. AT NIGHT, TAKE A POWERFUL SEACHLAMP AND HAVE A HELPER SHINE IT CLOSE TO BUT NOT TOUCHING ON THE EXTERIOR OF THE TRANSOM-HULL JOIN WHILE YOU CLIMB INSIDE A HOPEFULLY LESS THAN FULL STERN LOCKER. THE BRIGHT AND POWERFUL LIGHT WILL ILLUMINATE THE LAMINATE JUST LIKE AN X-RAY AS AMEL DID NOT APPLY ANY GEL COAT TO THE INSIDE OF THE TRANSOM. IF THE LAMINATE IS DAMAGED, IT WILL APPEAR TO HAVE MOVED AS INDEED THAT IS WHAT IT DOES WHEN IT FAILS. HAVE A REAL EXPERT TAKE A LOOK IF YOU ARE NOT SURE.  COST CUTTING? NOT AT ALL. THEY DIDN’T APPLY GEL COAT TO MAKE THIS PANEL MORE TRANSLUCENT ALLOWING MORE LIGHT INTO AN AREA WHICH WOULD BE OTHERWISE QUITE DARK. ALWAYS THINKING, THESE AMEL PEOPLE! PLEASE, DO NOT TRY TO DO THIS BY YOURSELF BY PLACING THE SEARCHLAMP DIRECTLY ON THE TRANSOM THEN CRAWLING INSIDE AS YOU WILL SEE THE LAMINATE FAIL RIGHT BEFORE YOUR EYES BECAUSE POLYESTER RESIN STARTS TO FAIL/CRYSTALIZE AT 175F AND WILL CATCH ON FIRE AS IT GASSES WITH THE APPLICATION OF EXCESSIVE HEAT. TRUST ME. DON’T DO IT ALONE.

 

 

I've read here that these cracks happen on most SM's, and looking from inside the lazaret, it appears they are in the gel coat only.  I am a bit concerned that these cracks were not reported on the 2015 pre-purchase Survey in any form, as if they weren't there then.  I think they were there then, but don't know if they have gotten worse. DUANE, DESPITE THE DIFFICULTIES YOU HAVE EXPERIENCED WITH YOUR BOAT, THE PREVIUOS OWNER WAS A STICKLER FOR SYSTEMS MAINTENANCE AND COSMETIC UPKEEP. SINCE WE WERE GOING TO USE THE BOAT AS OUR SHOWBOAT IN THE MIAMI BOAT SHOW, I HAD THE CRACKS REPAIRED AS THIS COSMETIC ROUTINE WAS NOT HIDING ANYTHING THAT WAS WRONG WITH THE LAMINATE. THE GEL COAT GUY WAS EXPERIENCED. I TOLD HIM TO REALLY SAND DOWN THE OLD GEL COAT IN HOPES THE NEW GEL COAT WOULD NOT BE TOO THICK AND PRONE TO CRACKS. THERE WERE NO CRACKS THERE WHEN YOU AND PEG BOUGHT YOUR BOAT, YOU DIDN’T MISS ANYTHING. HE JUST PUT ON TOO MUCH GEL COAT. AGAIN.

 

The fiberglass repairman working on the boat (collision damage) suggested "radical surgery" including grinding off the gel coat over a wide area on both sides of the crack, adding fiberglass and then new gel coat.  His opinion was if he just repaired the gel coat it would only crack again.  Then he pointed out several areas where the gel coat had been "touched up" to hide the crack, only to subsequently crack in the same place. MY EARS PERK UP AND MY THINKING CAP GETS PULLED ON TIGHT WHEN ANYONE SAYS ‘RADICAL’.   IF HE SUGGESTED ADDING FIBERGLASS AFTER GRINDING OFF THE GEL COAT, TO THE OUTSIDE, THAT WOULD BE A LESS THAN SATISFACTORY REPAIR. ADD STRUCTURAL FIBERGLASS TO THE INSIDE OF THE TRAMSOM WHERE A BETTER OVERLAP/MORE STRENGTH CAN BE ACHIEVED. THIS IS ESSENTIAL IF ADDING THE AFOREMENTIONED EQUIPMENT .

 

I can see there is some water intrusion on the stbd side at the crack.  I'm thinking of filling it with Marine-Tex. I don't want to damage the structural laminates below, so any grinding/prep would be limitied to opening the gel coat crack to 1/8" or so.   <<<Any thoughts about that?>>>IN MY EXPERIENCES WITH THIS CHALLENGE, I HAVE FOUND THAT SANDING THE GEL COAT OFF, CAREFULLY AND SLOWLY SO AS NOT TO CHEW INTO STRUCTURAL LAMINATE, FOLLOWED BY PROPER APPLICATION OF A COMPATABLE PRIMER FOLLOWED BY POLYUREATHANE PAINT WITH AN ELASTOMER ADDITIVE MAKING IT VERY RESISTANT TO SURFACE CRACKS WORKS NICELY AND LASTS A LONG TIME AS IT DOES NOT OXIDIZE AS MUCH AS GEL COAT. THE ONLT NEGATIVE PAINT HAS TO GEL COAT IN THIS APPLICATION IS THAT GEL COAT CAN BE SANDED IF SCRATHED, PAINT COMES OFF AND MUST BE REPAINTED. THE PERFECT TIME TO DO THIS ALMOST PERMANENT REPAIR IS WHEN A NEW OWNER BUYS THE BOAT AND RENAMES IT. IF THE PREVIUOS NAME ON THE TRANSOM HAS BEEN THERE FOR YEARS, IT WILL BE PRETTY HARD TO ELIMINATE THE GHOSTING THAT THE AREA UNDER WHERE THE OLD NAME WAS. PAINTING THE ENTIRE TRANSOM KILLS TWO BIRDS WITH ONE STONE.  

 

I'll take some photos after the sun comes up.  

 

I'm up early with sore muscles/joints after buffing and polishing the boat the last three days, and I'm only half done!  The red gel coat on the rubrail was terribly oxidized, but I've been able to get it back to "pretty good" with some aggressive rubbing compound and then a polishing compound.  The bootstripe also got the same treatment and looks great now.  I used the polishing compound on the white gelcoat and that seemed to even out the color.  I just started waxing! yesterday afternoon.  I've used the Collinite Fleetwax before and it would last a year on a freshwater lake.  I'll see how it goes in saltwater.  <<>> DUANE, THAT’S WHAT HIGH SCHOOL DROP OUT BOATYARD WORKERS ARE FOR. I WONT ARM WRESTLE YOU FOR A FEW WEEKS…

 

One of the yard workers recommended "Marykate On&Off Hull&Bottom Cleaner" for the scum line.  It says it also removes the diesel soot smudge.  I have had trouble removing that smudge with ANY cleaner.  Last time I worked on that in the water I had to use a rubbing compound by hand.  <<<>>>THAT STUFF REALLY WORKS. SOME GEL COAT SUPPLIERS RECOMMEND AGAINST USING IT. DON’T HAVE DEFINITVE ANSWER FOR YOU.

 

Thanks, MY PLEASURE

Duane        JOEL

Wanderer, SM#477


Re: Santorin Bonding System

Azimuth
 

Hi Ian,

Thank you for your response! Yes, the electrician was aware of the floating negative. He thinks that the wiring from the rudder may have failed somewhere along the line because the engine and through hulls do not appear to be properly grounded. He has suggested running new bonding wire from the rudder stock to the gear box connection. He has verified that there is continuity from there to the engine and through hulls.

Thanks again!

Lisa


---In amelyachtowners@..., <parkianj@...> wrote :

Lisa
Was the electrician aware that the Santorin has a floating negative? Amel is one of the few brands that does not have the battery negative connected to the engine. I'm not on my boat now, but I think there is a green and yellow grounding wire coming of the top of the C Drive.

The through hulls should be grounded. Did he check the keel and/ or the copper strap going down into the bilge? This can rot through down at the bottom of the bilge and be unseen. It fastens onto a keel bolt in order to keep the keel grounded.

The Santorin is a great boat. Have fun!

Ian. Ocean Hobo SN96


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Alternative for not working Sonic Speed sensors

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Alan,

I am sure that there are several people that would like to know if your proposal works for a B&G Sonic Speed sensor replacement. Like I said earlier, everyone I spoke to said that it will not, but like several other things involving electronic instrumentation, I found that the majority can be wrong. 

Be sure to report back. 


CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Galveston Island
Sent using Google Fi
+1(832) 380-4970

   

On Mar 9, 2017 21:50, "divanz620@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

To Bill and Bill and Willem and anyone else following this thread....


What I proposed was not a dual speed/depth transducer, but an Airmar ultrasonic speed transducer CS4500, which will fit in the existing depth transducer housing, and which produces an analog output to a connection box that can connect directly to the ultrasonic speed connections on the Hydra computer (there are three connections for speed : sonic transducer, ultrasonic, paddlewheel).
Then as Bill Kinney suggested, I would use a P79 in hull depth transducer, that has the same output as the standard thru hull depth transducer, and connect that to the Hydra computer, in place of the B&G depth transducer.
No NMEA 0183, no NMEA 2000, just direct analog connections. 
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Gel Coat Cracks adjacent to the backstays & other assorted questions

Duane Siegfri
 

At the transom/hull joint on both sides the gel coat is cracked from top to bottom.  While we're in a boatyard I'm thinking of doing a repair, so I'm soliciting suggestions on the repair method.


I've read here that these cracks happen on most SM's, and looking from inside the lazaret, it appears they are in the gel coat only.  I am a bit concerned that these cracks were not reported on the 2015 pre-purchase Survey in any form, as if they weren't there then.  I think they were there then, but don't know if they have gotten worse.


The fiberglass repairman working on the boat (collision damage) suggested "radical surgery" including grinding off the gel coat over a wide area on both sides of the crack, adding fiberglass and then new gel coat.  His opinion was if he just repaired the gel coat it would only crack again.  Then he pointed out several areas where the gel coat had been "touched up" to hide the crack, only to subsequently crack in the same place.


I can see there is some water intrusion on the stbd side at the crack.  I'm thinking of filling it with Marine-Tex. I don't want to damage the structural laminates below, so any grinding/prep would be limitied to opening the gel coat crack to 1/8" or so.   <<<Any thoughts about that?>>>


I'll take some photos after the sun comes up.  


I'm up early with sore muscles/joints after buffing and polishing the boat the last three days, and I'm only half done!  The red gel coat on the rubrail was terribly oxidized, but I've been able to get it back to "pretty good" with some aggressive rubbing compound and then a polishing compound.  The bootstripe also got the same treatment and looks great now.  I used the polishing compound on the white gelcoat and that seemed to even out the color.  I just started waxing yesterday afternoon.  I've used the Collinite Fleetwax before and it would last a year on a freshwater lake.  I'll see how it goes in saltwater.  <<<Does anyone have a favorite wax that makes removing the diesel soot smudge easier?>>> 


One of the yard workers recommended "Marykate On&Off Hull&Bottom Cleaner" for the scum line.  It says it also removes the diesel soot smudge.  I have had trouble removing that smudge with ANY cleaner.  Last time I worked on that in the water I had to use a rubbing compound by hand.  <<<<Any recommendations on a product?>>>>


Thanks,

Duane

Wanderer, SM#477


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Alternative for not working Sonic Speed sensors

Alan Leslie
 

To Bill and Bill and Willem and anyone else following this thread....

What I proposed was not a dual speed/depth transducer, but an Airmar ultrasonic speed transducer CS4500, which will fit in the existing depth transducer housing, and which produces an analog output to a connection box that can connect directly to the ultrasonic speed connections on the Hydra computer (there are three connections for speed : sonic transducer, ultrasonic, paddlewheel).
Then as Bill Kinney suggested, I would use a P79 in hull depth transducer, that has the same output as the standard thru hull depth transducer, and connect that to the Hydra computer, in place of the B&G depth transducer.
No NMEA 0183, no NMEA 2000, just direct analog connections. 
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Alternative for not working Sonic Speed sensors

greatketch@...
 

Bill Rouse has a good point.  Just so everybody understands what I did and how it works (and more importantly why it might not work for you!)

My NEW speed sensor (and depth, as well) does NOT connect to my HYDRA directly. They are NOT drop in replacements for the Sonic Speed sensor or B&G depth transducer.

Those new sensors connect to my chartplotter via a NMEA2000 link. The chartplotter does echo the data back to the HYDRA via NMEA 1083, and the HYDRA does display it on the digital screen, but I do not know that the HYDRA can calculate True Wind data using STW from NMEA because I have never looked for it there, my newer instruments handle all that in a more user-friendly way.

If the HYDRA is your sole means of displaying navigation data, I can not assure you it will work with any non-B&G transducer transmitting NMEA1083 data. It might, it might not.  Collecting and transmitting NMEA1083 data is a topic in and of itself...

At this point the only sensor that is connected to my HYDRA is the wind sensor--because it still works!  All my navigation data is displayed on my chartplotter (a B&G Zeus Touch) and on B&G Triton displays.  I would have removed the HYDRA digital display entirely, except for the marvelous job it does plugging the HYDRA shaped hole in the panel!

If you really want to keep the original B&G HYDRA system as your primary backbone for navigation data, you might not find the parts I used suitable.

Bill Kinney
SM#160 Harmonie


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Alternative for not working Sonic Speed sensors

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

All and especially Alan and Willem:

Before you buy an Airmar dual transducer, read further...

I realize that you are looking to install something that will fix the failure of your Sonic Speed sensors, but it is NOT as easy as you may think.

My understanding of the B&G Hydra 2000 system is that the components and transducers communicate with the B&G Hydra 2000 via B&G language rather than NMEA 0183. The FFD connected to the Hydra 2000 computer does have NMEA IN and NMEA OUT, but NMEA sentences that connect to the FFD via NMEA IN, do not go upstream to the Hydra computer where it would be needed for computations requiring SOW such as True Wind. Additionally, your analog SOW gauge connects to the B&G Hydra Computer, not the FFD. 

I have discussed this with Bill Kinney, and at least a dozen other people, some that know much more than me, and like I said earlier, I truly believe there are only two ways to overcome the Sonic Speed sensor failure and keep everything else as Amel installed it: Drill a new hole, or buy the black box SOG to B&G SOW converter. Refer to my earlier email for details. 

The Airmar sensor that Bill Kinney suggested can be used, but other changes in instrumentation are required...Again, if you want to maintain everything as Amel installed it and correct a Sonic Speed sensor failure, I believe you have only the two choices I suggested earlier. 

I hope this clears this up. But, if anyone has discovered a way to use the Airmar Speed/Depth transducer without changing anything else in a B&G Hydra 2000, please chime in!


CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Galveston Island
Sent using Google Fi
+1(832) 380-4970

   

On Mar 9, 2017 07:21, "Bill & Judy Rouse" <yahoogroups@...> wrote:
Bill,

Did you connect that Airmar dual function thru-hull transducer to a B&G Hydra 2000 processor, or something else?

Bill
X-BeBe

On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 7:43 PM, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

There are several Airmar "Smart sensors" that are paddlewheels that transmitt NMEA1083 data that can be routed to the Hydra-if you are highly attached to it.


Like this:  


Others are also available. Try looking at the Gemeco catalog to see what might work for you

What I did was use the old depth sounder hole to take a new speed sensor, (A CS4500 ultrasonic without moving parts) and installed a P79 in-hull transducer for depth data.  No new holes in the hull, and maintaining functionality.

Bill Kinney
SM #160 Harmonie
Punta Montalva, Puerto Rico


---In amelyachtowners@...m, wrote :

Willem,

If you want to keep the B&G Hydra 2000, I think you have two choices:

1.) Drill another hole and install a B&G Paddlewheel sensor. I do not think that you can find a compatible Speed and Depth Sensor that will replace the Depth Sensor and communicate to the B&G Hydra.

2.) Display SOG on the analog B&G cockpit gauges and on the Hydra FFD rather than SOW by installing a NMEA paddlewheel. 

The NMEA Paddlewheel device connects to a data port on the GPS, reads the GPS NMEA sentences and finds SOG. It then translates that SOG into B&G language as SOW. If you are a sailing purest, SOW may be important to you if you must know how much current is impacting your SOG, but remember SOG is what really counts and gets you where you are going. 

This solution may be the best for you. It is simple to install: 2 wires connect to 12VDC at the Hydra toggle switch, 2 wires connect to NMEA data OUT on your GPS and 2 wires connect to the B&G computer at the same place that sonic speed or paddlewheel connect.


NMEA Paddlewheel

NMEA Paddlewheel

The NMEA Paddlewheel converts NMEA from either a GPS or electromagnetic log to a paddlewheel output suitable for connecting directly to an instrument system, such as a B&G Hydra/Hercules.

Retail price £295.00

Best,

Bill
X-BeBe
Galveston Island





Re: Starboard electric genoa winch got lazy

greatketch@...
 

I think Olivier's suggestion for distinguishing between a motor problem and a control box problem is probably easier than mine. 

Bill Kinney
SM#160 Harmonie


---In amelyachtowners@..., <svperegrinus@...> wrote :

Thank you Bill,

Will test voltage tomorrow morning after we arrive.  Am terrified of attempting to remove the electric motor, as I remember Eric of Kimberlite mentioning his was very, very stuck due to not doing a periodic maintenance Lewmar told him is mandatory, yet which does not show on our Lewmar manual that came with the boats.  Of course this maintenance has never been done on Peregrinus!

Will post here on any follow-ups.

Cheerio,

SM2K N. 350
Underway, Venice to Ortona


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Starboard electric genoa winch got lazy

Beaute Olivier
 

Hello Peregrinus,

the control box of your winch monitors the amperage drawn while using the winch.
If the motor draws too many amps, the control box cuts power.
You could run your winch (one turn) and check the amperage drawn on your battery monitor.
Then compare with the other winch.
If the amperage is the same, then the problem is in the control box.
If the wrong winch draws much more amps than the other one, the problem is in the motor or the coupling (not the winch as you told us you could manually use it without force).

Good luck

Olivier (I remember meeting you in Hyeres but I forgot your name, sorry)


On Thursday, March 9, 2017 6:37 PM, "svperegrinus@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 
Thank you Bill,

Will test voltage tomorrow morning after we arrive.  Am terrified of attempting to remove the electric motor, as I remember Eric of Kimberlite mentioning his was very, very stuck due to not doing a periodic maintenance Lewmar told him is mandatory, yet which does not show on our Lewmar manual that came with the boats.  Of course this maintenance has never been done on Peregrinus!

Will post here on any follow-ups.

Cheerio,

SM2K N. 350
Underway, Venice to Ortona




Re: Starboard electric genoa winch got lazy

svperegrinus@yahoo.com
 

Thank you Bill,

Will test voltage tomorrow morning after we arrive.  Am terrified of attempting to remove the electric motor, as I remember Eric of Kimberlite mentioning his was very, very stuck due to not doing a periodic maintenance Lewmar told him is mandatory, yet which does not show on our Lewmar manual that came with the boats.  Of course this maintenance has never been done on Peregrinus!

Will post here on any follow-ups.

Cheerio,

SM2K N. 350
Underway, Venice to Ortona


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Collapsing mizzen mast support on a 1986 Maramu

James Alton
 

Jacob,
   I own a 1987 Maramu.  The mast box has not seperated from the cabin at all but I have seen this on other Maramu's.   The issue seems to be caused from the mizzen mast box compressing at the cut out for the engine hatch at the base.  The driving force in my opinion is caused by high static rigging tension. In other words the compression column has a notch in it on the front face which is needed for design reasons but makes that forward face less able to resist compression loads.  The actual mast step based on my personal inspections and observations is sufficiently strong to handle any normal sailing  including extremely high momentary  loads and is well designed. But constant high rigging tension combined with heat and time allows the glass to creep/change shape slightly resulting in some compression and it does not take much to create the gap you are seeing.  You can see this same glass creep in the boat stands that are set up too tight.  Intitially the hull deflection is slight but if the pressure is high and left in place for a long period the deflection increases. As the mizzen mast step compresses on the front face at the notch, the load is transferred to the connection to the forward face of the aft cabin which causes it to bulge out slightly and the whole step to rock forward thereby opening the joint at the mizzen mast step/cabin interface.  I doubt that a 1/4" gap is a structural concern but if the mizzen rigging seems to be tight I would ease off the tension and see if the gap closes.   Maramus are wonderful boats IMO. 
 Best of luck. 
James Alton
SV Sueno Maramu #220
Sardinia, Italy


Sent from my Galaxy S®III


-------- Original message --------
From: "jacob.champness@... [amelyachtowners]"
Date:03/09/2017 7:51 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Collapsing mizzen mast support on a 1986 Maramu

 

Hi all.  I'm looking at a 1986 Maramu where the box supporting the mizzen mast has separated by about a quarter inch from the aft bulkhead in the cockpit, and the box itself has begun to buckle slightly.  Has anyone else seen a case like this and addressed it?  How well did it go?


Thanks, Jacob


Re: Starboard electric genoa winch got lazy

greatketch@...
 

A new motor is most likely NOT in your immediate future...

First, check to be sure that the motor has power to its terminals when the switch is activated.  If NO then the problem is in the control circuit.

If YES, the motor has full voltage at its terminals and still does not turn, based on your symptoms, I's check the brushes first.  They could be stuck, or worn.

If that is not something you are comfortable doing, remove the motor and take it to any electric motor shop. Short of catastrophic damage from water or other cause, they will almost certainly set it right for way less than the cost of a new motor.

What ever you find wrong with this one, assume the port side winch needs the same treatment. Most likely they have very similar usage hours!

Bill Kinney
SM #160 Harmonie
Punta Montalva, Puerto Rico



---In amelyachtowners@..., <svperegrinus@...> wrote :

Hello,


We started a trip about 30 hours ago and the starboard winch performed as usual.  It's been an uneventful trip, no rain, no waves, little humidity.  Have done a couple of easy tacks or jives all along the way in 6-12 knot winds.


Just now we jived and... found out the starboard electric winch makes about one turn and stops, even with no load.  It just stops as if one had taken one's hand off of the switch, no strain, no clicks.  Same behavior whether using the winch's adjacent switch or the pilot's panel switch.


The winch works manually when using a winch handle; all perfect.


Suggestions?  Comments?  In for a new Lewmar electric motor?


Cheerio,


Peregrinus

SM2K Nr. 350 (2002)

En route, Venice to Ortona (Italy)


Starboard electric genoa winch got lazy

svperegrinus@yahoo.com
 

Hello,


We started a trip about 30 hours ago and the starboard winch performed as usual.  It's been an uneventful trip, no rain, no waves, little humidity.  Have done a couple of easy tacks or jives all along the way in 6-12 knot winds.


Just now we jived and... found out the starboard electric winch makes about one turn and stops, even with no load.  It just stops as if one had taken one's hand off of the switch, no strain, no clicks.  Same behavior whether using the winch's adjacent switch or the pilot's panel switch.


The winch works manually when using a winch handle; all perfect.


Suggestions?  Comments?  In for a new Lewmar electric motor?


Cheerio,


Peregrinus

SM2K Nr. 350 (2002)

En route, Venice to Ortona (Italy)


"C" Drive Lifting Tang

Craig Briggs
 

After 18 years owning my Santorin I thought I had discovered all the clever Amel features but just stumbled on yet one more. In the engine room overhead directly above the "C" drive "trumpet" (upper gear unit) there's a meaty steel tang that is perfect for attaching a snatch block to lift the trumpet. It does normal duty as the anchor point for tie wraps that hold up the throttle and shift cables. It would have made replacing the O rings on the trumpet so much easier than my jury rigged angled lashing of the trumpet to get it vertical. I'd guess there is a similar structure on the SM's, etc.

Cheers,

Craig Briggs, SN#68 Sangaris, Harbour Isle, Ft. Pierce, FL, US

(across from a 54 anchored in the inlet. Couldn't raise them on VHF)


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Alternative for not working Sonic Speed sensors

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Bill,

Did you connect that Airmar dual function thru-hull transducer to a B&G Hydra 2000 processor, or something else?

Bill
X-BeBe

On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 7:43 PM, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

There are several Airmar "Smart sensors" that are paddlewheels that transmitt NMEA1083 data that can be routed to the Hydra-if you are highly attached to it.


Like this:  


Others are also available. Try looking at the Gemeco catalog to see what might work for you

What I did was use the old depth sounder hole to take a new speed sensor, (A CS4500 ultrasonic without moving parts) and installed a P79 in-hull transducer for depth data.  No new holes in the hull, and maintaining functionality.

Bill Kinney
SM #160 Harmonie
Punta Montalva, Puerto Rico


---In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

Willem,

If you want to keep the B&G Hydra 2000, I think you have two choices:

1.) Drill another hole and install a B&G Paddlewheel sensor. I do not think that you can find a compatible Speed and Depth Sensor that will replace the Depth Sensor and communicate to the B&G Hydra.

2.) Display SOG on the analog B&G cockpit gauges and on the Hydra FFD rather than SOW by installing a NMEA paddlewheel. 

The NMEA Paddlewheel device connects to a data port on the GPS, reads the GPS NMEA sentences and finds SOG. It then translates that SOG into B&G language as SOW. If you are a sailing purest, SOW may be important to you if you must know how much current is impacting your SOG, but remember SOG is what really counts and gets you where you are going. 

This solution may be the best for you. It is simple to install: 2 wires connect to 12VDC at the Hydra toggle switch, 2 wires connect to NMEA data OUT on your GPS and 2 wires connect to the B&G computer at the same place that sonic speed or paddlewheel connect.


NMEA Paddlewheel

NMEA Paddlewheel

The NMEA Paddlewheel converts NMEA from either a GPS or electromagnetic log to a paddlewheel output suitable for connecting directly to an instrument system, such as a B&G Hydra/Hercules.

Retail price £295.00

Best,

Bill
X-BeBe
Galveston Island





Collapsing mizzen mast support on a 1986 Maramu

Jacob Champness
 

Hi all.  I'm looking at a 1986 Maramu where the box supporting the mizzen mast has separated by about a quarter inch from the aft bulkhead in the cockpit, and the box itself has begun to buckle slightly.  Has anyone else seen a case like this and addressed it?  How well did it go?


Thanks, Jacob


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Alternative for not working Sonic Speed sensors

Ben and Gayle Super Maramu #347
 

OK. Thanks Bill.  

Ben Driver
S/V La Bella Vita
SM #347

On Mar 8, 2017, at 9:43 PM, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

There are several Airmar "Smart sensors" that are paddlewheels that transmitt NMEA1083 data that can be routed to the Hydra-if you are highly attached to it.


Like this:  


Others are also available. Try looking at the Gemeco catalog to see what might work for you

What I did was use the old depth sounder hole to take a new speed sensor, (A CS4500 ultrasonic without moving parts) and installed a P79 in-hull transducer for depth data.  No new holes in the hull, and maintaining functionality.

Bill Kinney
SM #160 Harmonie
Punta Montalva, Puerto Rico


---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

Willem,

If you want to keep the B&G Hydra 2000, I think you have two choices:

1.) Drill another hole and install a B&G Paddlewheel sensor. I do not think that you can find a compatible Speed and Depth Sensor that will replace the Depth Sensor and communicate to the B&G Hydra.

2.) Display SOG on the analog B&G cockpit gauges and on the Hydra FFD rather than SOW by installing a NMEA paddlewheel. 

The NMEA Paddlewheel device connects to a data port on the GPS, reads the GPS NMEA sentences and finds SOG. It then translates that SOG into B&G language as SOW. If you are a sailing purest, SOW may be important to you if you must know how much current is impacting your SOG, but remember SOG is what really counts and gets you where you are going. 

This solution may be the best for you. It is simple to install: 2 wires connect to 12VDC at the Hydra toggle switch, 2 wires connect to NMEA data OUT on your GPS and 2 wires connect to the B&G computer at the same place that sonic speed or paddlewheel connect.


NMEA Paddlewheel

NMEA Paddlewheel

The NMEA Paddlewheel converts NMEA from either a GPS or electromagnetic log to a paddlewheel output suitable for connecting directly to an instrument system, such as a B&G Hydra/Hercules.

Retail price £295.00

Best,

Bill
X-BeBe
Galveston Island




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Alternative for not working Sonic Speed sensors

Ben and Gayle Super Maramu #347
 



Ben Driver
S/V La Bella Vita
SM #347

On Mar 8, 2017, at 7:44 PM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Ben,

The B&G Sonic Speed sensors are encased in plastic.

Bill 

On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 4:56 PM, Ben Driver/YAHOO joedoakes66@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Has anyone had any success repairing the sonic sensor?  Seems I recall someone on the forum repaired one...

Ben Driver
S/V La Bella Vita
SM #347

On Mar 8, 2017, at 5:12 PM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Willem,

If you want to keep the B&G Hydra 2000, I think you have two choices:

1.) Drill another hole and install a B&G Paddlewheel sensor. I do not think that you can find a compatible Speed and Depth Sensor that will replace the Depth Sensor and communicate to the B&G Hydra.

2.) Display SOG on the analog B&G cockpit gauges and on the Hydra FFD rather than SOW by installing a NMEA paddlewheel. 

The NMEA Paddlewheel device connects to a data port on the GPS, reads the GPS NMEA sentences and finds SOG. It then translates that SOG into B&G language as SOW. If you are a sailing purest, SOW may be important to you if you must know how much current is impacting your SOG, but remember SOG is what really counts and gets you where you are going. 

This solution may be the best for you. It is simple to install: 2 wires connect to 12VDC at the Hydra toggle switch, 2 wires connect to NMEA data OUT on your GPS and 2 wires connect to the B&G computer at the same place that sonic speed or paddlewheel connect.


NMEA Paddlewheel

The NMEA Paddlewheel converts NMEA from either a GPS or electromagnetic log to a paddlewheel output suitable for connecting directly to an instrument system, such as a B&G Hydra/Hercules.

Retail price £295.00

Best,

Bill
X-BeBe
Galveston Island


On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 2:37 PM, kavanga@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Hi,


I am quite new to this group, but owned from 2002 to 2010 a Santorin sloop (#69). Now I am on my way buying a SM 2K from 2001. Also on this SM (I have seen already quite a few with the same problem) the Sonic Speed sensors are not functioning.

Which options do I have? 

1. Buying a new sensor with paddle wheel that works with the Hydra 2000 system? Which brand and model do I need?

2. Buying a new sensor without moving parts. Which brand and model working with the Hydra 2000 system is recommended?

Willem J. Kroes





Posted by: "Bill & Judy Rouse" <yahoogroups@...>
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (5)

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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Alternative for not working Sonic Speed sensors

greatketch@...
 

There are several Airmar "Smart sensors" that are paddlewheels that transmitt NMEA1083 data that can be routed to the Hydra-if you are highly attached to it.

Like this:  
www.airmar.com/uploads/brochures/dst800.pdf


Others are also available. Try looking at the Gemeco catalog to see what might work for you

What I did was use the old depth sounder hole to take a new speed sensor, (A CS4500 ultrasonic without moving parts) and installed a P79 in-hull transducer for depth data.  No new holes in the hull, and maintaining functionality.

Bill Kinney
SM #160 Harmonie
Punta Montalva, Puerto Rico


---In amelyachtowners@..., <yahoogroups@...> wrote :

Willem,

If you want to keep the B&G Hydra 2000, I think you have two choices:

1.) Drill another hole and install a B&G Paddlewheel sensor. I do not think that you can find a compatible Speed and Depth Sensor that will replace the Depth Sensor and communicate to the B&G Hydra.

2.) Display SOG on the analog B&G cockpit gauges and on the Hydra FFD rather than SOW by installing a NMEA paddlewheel. 

The NMEA Paddlewheel device connects to a data port on the GPS, reads the GPS NMEA sentences and finds SOG. It then translates that SOG into B&G language as SOW. If you are a sailing purest, SOW may be important to you if you must know how much current is impacting your SOG, but remember SOG is what really counts and gets you where you are going. 

This solution may be the best for you. It is simple to install: 2 wires connect to 12VDC at the Hydra toggle switch, 2 wires connect to NMEA data OUT on your GPS and 2 wires connect to the B&G computer at the same place that sonic speed or paddlewheel connect.


NMEA Paddlewheel

NMEA Paddlewheel

The NMEA Paddlewheel converts NMEA from either a GPS or electromagnetic log to a paddlewheel output suitable for connecting directly to an instrument system, such as a B&G Hydra/Hercules.

Retail price £295.00

Best,

Bill
X-BeBe
Galveston Island