Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Batteries, combination parallel and serial

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

James,

Let me see if I can help you.

Your boat originally came with either 8 or 12 batteries which were Group 31. Someone replaced the 31s with 27s???

Remember, 2 each 12VDC 110 amp/hour batteries connected in series, produce 24VDC 110 amp/hour.

Whether it is 8 or 12, the battery bank consisted of pairs which were connected in series....Then each pair was wired parallel to the 24 Volt Negative and Positive Busses.

If you have the original 175amp Leece Neville Alternator, it will not charge the AGMs correctly unless you add a smart charger to it, and this is NOT a plug and play routine job. If you have the original Dolphin battery chargers, I think your hull number is late enough that your charges can be adjusted for AGM...but, if not, this is another issue that will cause issues. You may want to reconsider and use a battery bank that was planned with the existing charging system.

You can call me Monday for more information.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970



On Sat, Jul 15, 2017 at 5:39 PM, jamessterling88@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

I'm about to replace my group 27 wet cells with group 31 AGM's.  My bank has 8 in parallel connected on the negative by twos with copper plates.  Since the AGM's are a little wider, jumpers will replace the copper plates. There are 4 along side the front of the bank (end to end) connected in serial.  In researching this in the group, I see BeBe's bank which appears to have 8 in series and 4 in parallel.  This confuses me a bit.  Can anyone enlighten me?  I want to make sure I do this right.

James
s/v Longbow SM2K Redline #418




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Caleffi Mixing Valve

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Bill

Which pump are you referring to?

Cycling ON is sometimes leakage of the one-way valve.

The pressure gauge is easy to find and replace.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

On Sat, Jul 15, 2017 at 1:58 PM, william_maffei@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hey Everyone -


I have an issue where my H2O pump cycles on which tells me there is a break in pressure somewhere. I have begun tracing the lines to find the source. I have a Caleffi Mixing Valve that I would love to learn more about. Anyone have any experience with these? Mine does not move from the 3.5bar mark on the pressure gauge. Thinking it might need a cleaning/service or replacement. The gauge on my water pump shows accurate pressure so it leads to to believe this gauge is not working... or I just know nothing about it. Can anyone provide some insight? 


Many thanks,


Bill Maffei 

SM# 195

It's all Good 



Batteries, combination parallel and serial

James Sterling
 

I'm about to replace my group 27 wet cells with group 31 AGM's.  My bank has 8 in parallel connected on the negative by twos with copper plates.  Since the AGM's are a little wider, jumpers will replace the copper plates. There are 4 along side the front of the bank (end to end) connected in serial.  In researching this in the group, I see BeBe's bank which appears to have 8 in series and 4 in parallel.  This confuses me a bit.  Can anyone enlighten me?  I want to make sure I do this right.

James
s/v Longbow SM2K Redline #418



Re: Wiring path Info

karkauai
 

Hi Amelians
I hope everyone is having a good season, wherever you are.
I am replacing the bow navigation light fixtures, and need some advice. I can't budge the cable that goes from the port bow locker, up the pulpit stanchion,, around the upper pulpit tube, and down the starboard stanchion to the light. It won't move a mm from either end. To make matters more difficult, I'm single handed and can't work both ends at the same time.

When the cables are stripped back a ways, the inner wires are black, but not brittle. If I scrape them a bit with a knife, they are shiny copper under the black.

Unfortunately the two terminal wires to the fixtures were joined to the cables from forward by a non waterproof junction, and the cable from forward has the same issue. Inner wires darkened, but not brittle.

I think they should probably be replaced, but it's going to be a major project to get the starboard wire out for replacement. I've already taken Eric's advice and removed the port stanchion from the rail, still can't budge the cable.

Any advice? Either for how to remove the old wire or what the issues are for leaving the old wire in place and securing all connections in a waterproof manner.

Thanks in advance for any wisdom you can pass on.

Kent,
SM 243
Kristy
Currently St Michaels Maryland


Caleffi Mixing Valve

william_maffei@...
 

Hey Everyone -


I have an issue where my H2O pump cycles on which tells me there is a break in pressure somewhere. I have begun tracing the lines to find the source. I have a Caleffi Mixing Valve that I would love to learn more about. Anyone have any experience with these? Mine does not move from the 3.5bar mark on the pressure gauge. Thinking it might need a cleaning/service or replacement. The gauge on my water pump shows accurate pressure so it leads to to believe this gauge is not working... or I just know nothing about it. Can anyone provide some insight? 


Many thanks,


Bill Maffei 

SM# 195

It's all Good 


Re: Climma AC Capacitors

Duane Siegfri
 

Here's a primer on the difference between start and run capacitors.


Duane


Re: Climma AC Capacitors

Duane Siegfri
 

Here's an interesting thread on using 50hz motors at 60hz.


Duane
Wanderer, SM#477


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Climma AC Capacitors

greatketch@...
 

Makes sense. A run capacitor should last 40k hours or so.  Start capacitors less so.  I must just be on the lucky side that none of the many motor driven things I have repaired ever needed a capacitor to get running again.

I often make the erroneous assumption that other people use things on their boats in the same way we do. For us, accumulating 40K hours on our AC units would take about 100 years--we use them that infrequently.  We also have a boat a bit simpler than many and just have fewer capacitors on our boat with just two AC units, and no other AC motors other than the clothes washer.

We had the original Cruiseair AC units when we bought Harmonie.  One compressor had an internal check valve fail shortly after we got the boat, the other is still going strong.  We thought--briefly--about replacing the failed compressor, but by the time we added the cost of parts and labor, and other potential issues with an old unit, it was more cost effective to just replace the whole thing since the install labor is free (me).

On a closely related topic, do you know what brand of compressor the Climma units use?

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Boston, Mass

---In amelyachtowners@..., <yahoogroups@...> wrote :

Bill,

It may be just the numbers. For instance a SM2k has about 20 capacitors that will completely fail within 10-20 years, and all of them will begin to get out of spec in a few years. A start capacitor may work for years while out of spec. The Climma fan speed capacitors are critical because sufficient fan speed is necessary to keep the high temperature interrupt switch from opening...and, of course sufficient fan speed is required to sufficiently cool. 

I think that the majority of SM owners in this forum have 10-25 year-old Climma AC units and every one of those capacitors is at end-to-end. That age statistic is amazing for a marine AC, considering most home ACs don't last 20 years...and most home AC units will have a capacitor failure in their lifetime. 

So, I think it is the numbers. 


CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

   

On Jul 14, 2017 11:34, "greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Can anybody explain how I have gone my entire life working around household, industrial and marine equipment, and never replaced a capacitor on a motor, yet it seems to be a routine failure we talk about here?  Am I just lucky?  Or is there something going on?  Now to be fair, very few of the electric motors I have used around boats have been AC motors, so it might just be a sample too small to give useful data.


Is there something special about the electrical supply characteristics or the general environment on board that is causing this?  Maybe salt air getting into the capacitor and shorting out the plates?

For what it is worth, I haven't had a failure of a capacitor on Harmonie--yet. (I am sure just that just jinxed at least one of them!)  On the other had, we hardly ever use any of our AC motors, so it might just be a usage factor.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harm onie
Boston, Mass


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Climma AC Capacitors

Philippe Morel
 

About Climma capacitors , we are in Colombia with a AC  failure  . Specialist that come , explore unit and test capacitors , nothing but after extraction of  compessor oil ( 50 g in the cooling gaz circuit ) , all remain well , even if the compressor seem low in cooling capabilities , mainly due to internal loss of proof between gaz / oil .
On our Climma compact 9 , electrical specs are : 220 v + or - 10 % , and 50 Hz + or - 10 % , and capacitors labelling 50-60 Hz , so , to me , I think that electrical failing comes for most from the bad quality of power .
Philippe
Sm2k Belavita n°238

Envoyé de mon iPad

Le 14 juil. 2017 à 11:38, 'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> a écrit :

 

Hi Bill,

Remember the our boats are meant to work at 50 Hz we often plug into 60 Hz.

The motors run faster and the capacitors definitely do not like 60 Hz.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2017 12:34 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Climma AC Capacitors

 

 

Can anybody explain how I have gone my entire life working around household, industrial and marine equipment, and never replaced a capacitor on a motor, yet it seems to be a routine failure we talk about here?  Am I just lucky?  Or is there something going on?  Now to be fair, very few of the electric motors I have used around boats have been AC motors, so it might just be a sample too small to give useful data.

 

Is there something special about the electrical supply characteristics or the general environment on board that is causing this?  Maybe salt air getting into the capacitor and shorting out the plates?

 

For what it is worth, I haven't had a failure of a capacitor on Harmonie--yet. (I am sure just that just jinxed at least one of them!)  On the other had, we hardly ever use any of our AC motors, so it might just be a usage factor.

 

Bill Kinney

SM160, Harmonie

Boston, Mass


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Climma AC Capacitors

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Bill,

It may be just the numbers. For instance a SM2k has about 20 capacitors that will completely fail within 10-20 years, and all of them will begin to get out of spec in a few years. A start capacitor may work for years while out of spec. The Climma fan speed capacitors are critical because sufficient fan speed is necessary to keep the high temperature interrupt switch from opening...and, of course sufficient fan speed is required to sufficiently cool. 

I think that the majority of SM owners in this forum have 10-25 year-old Climma AC units and every one of those capacitors is at end-to-end. That age statistic is amazing for a marine AC, considering most home ACs don't last 20 years...and most home AC units will have a capacitor failure in their lifetime. 

So, I think it is the numbers. 


CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

   

On Jul 14, 2017 11:34, "greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Can anybody explain how I have gone my entire life working around household, industrial and marine equipment, and never replaced a capacitor on a motor, yet it seems to be a routine failure we talk about here?  Am I just lucky?  Or is there something going on?  Now to be fair, very few of the electric motors I have used around boats have been AC motors, so it might just be a sample too small to give useful data.


Is there something special about the electrical supply characteristics or the general environment on board that is causing this?  Maybe salt air getting into the capacitor and shorting out the plates?

For what it is worth, I haven't had a failure of a capacitor on Harmonie--yet. (I am sure just that just jinxed at least one of them!)  On the other had, we hardly ever use any of our AC motors, so it might just be a usage factor.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harm onie
Boston, Mass


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Climma AC Capacitors

eric freedman
 

Hi Bill,

Remember the our boats are meant to work at 50 Hz we often plug into 60 Hz.

The motors run faster and the capacitors definitely do not like 60 Hz.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2017 12:34 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Climma AC Capacitors

 

 

Can anybody explain how I have gone my entire life working around household, industrial and marine equipment, and never replaced a capacitor on a motor, yet it seems to be a routine failure we talk about here?  Am I just lucky?  Or is there something going on?  Now to be fair, very few of the electric motors I have used around boats have been AC motors, so it might just be a sample too small to give useful data.

 

Is there something special about the electrical supply characteristics or the general environment on board that is causing this?  Maybe salt air getting into the capacitor and shorting out the plates?

 

For what it is worth, I haven't had a failure of a capacitor on Harmonie--yet. (I am sure just that just jinxed at least one of them!)  On the other had, we hardly ever use any of our AC motors, so it might just be a usage factor.

 

Bill Kinney

SM160, Harmonie

Boston, Mass


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Climma AC Capacitors

greatketch@...
 

Can anybody explain how I have gone my entire life working around household, industrial and marine equipment, and never replaced a capacitor on a motor, yet it seems to be a routine failure we talk about here?  Am I just lucky?  Or is there something going on?  Now to be fair, very few of the electric motors I have used around boats have been AC motors, so it might just be a sample too small to give useful data.

Is there something special about the electrical supply characteristics or the general environment on board that is causing this?  Maybe salt air getting into the capacitor and shorting out the plates?

For what it is worth, I haven't had a failure of a capacitor on Harmonie--yet. (I am sure just that just jinxed at least one of them!)  On the other had, we hardly ever use any of our AC motors, so it might just be a usage factor.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Boston, Mass


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Frigoboat two speed fan not working

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Duane,

See the attached: Page from Amel School Book Part 3 - Mechanical.PDF

This is the trouble shooting guide that I have always used.

That fan switch is a push button switch. All push button switches are prone to failure when not used frequently. My guess is that you have one of the following in order of probability:
  1. Door not locked closed with Amel-made latch, door not properly aligned and/or sealed.
  2. Condenser coils, fan blades and fan ducting full of dust and need cleaning
  3. Compressor set at wrong speed (Blue wire should be plugged into "200 liters" (this is 3,000rpm) on the power module.) 
  4. Push Button Fan Speed Switch failure - use corrosionX
  5. Thermostat failure - use corrosionX
  6. Low refrigerant - unlikely
  7. Bad Compressor - very unlikely
Let me know what you find.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Frigoboat two speed fan not working

Mohammad Shirloo
 

Duane;
 
We did not have to pull the refrigerator to access the compressor. On ours, there is an air intake grill that can be removed and access the compressor and the compressor controller.
 
Is the compressor running continually with out stopping?
 
In regards to the thermostat setting you mention, I was talking about reducing the compressor RPM setting and not the thermostat setting. On ours there is what looks to be a variable resistor (POT) that you can adjust the compressor RPMs from 2000 to 3500. We reduced the RPMS from 3500 to 2000 to solve the issue.
 
In regards to the refrigerant in these compact units, be extremely careful. In my research, the company indicates that the amount of refrigerant in these units is extremely small and has to be set by the factory in "Lab conditions" to be able to get the amount correct. That is why they do not publish amounts or pressures because they believe that it cannot be done in the field. If an A/C "expert" from an auto industry, for example, steps on the boat and says that he needs to charge the system or somehow change the amount of refrigerant, I would not allow him. The tech must show that he/she is certified by Frigoboat, If I were to allow them to work on these units. Just my 2 cents.
 
Mohammad and Aty
Amel 54 #099
B&B Kokomo
 



From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2017 7:19 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Frigoboat two speed fan not working

 

Mohammed,


1.  The compressor is running based on using a long screwdriver as a stethoscope.

2.  I'll check on the voltage issue you noted and see what I find.  Did you pull the frig out and attach at the compressor?

3.  We have a built-in alarm LED and it is not showing any alarms.  I can hear the fan running clearly although the two speed button is not functioning.  

I'll check on the voltage issue you noted and see what I find.  Did you pull the frig out and attach at the compressor?

We have had the frig thermostat set on the highest setting since purchasing the boat.  It won't cool adequately at a lower setting.  I'm starting to wonder if it's a slow leak in the refrigerant lines somewhere since it's gotten progressively worse over time.

Duane


Re: Frigoboat two speed fan not working

Duane Siegfri
 

Mohammed,

1.  The compressor is running based on using a long screwdriver as a stethoscope.

2.  I'll check on the voltage issue you noted and see what I find.  Did you pull the frig out and attach at the compressor?

3.  We have a built-in alarm LED and it is not showing any alarms.  I can hear the fan running clearly although the two speed button is not functioning.  

I'll check on the voltage issue you noted and see what I find.  Did you pull the frig out and attach at the compressor?

We have had the frig thermostat set on the highest setting since purchasing the boat.  It won't cool adequately at a lower setting.  I'm starting to wonder if it's a slow leak in the refrigerant lines somewhere since it's gotten progressively worse over time.

Duane


Re: Frigoboat two speed fan not working

Duane Siegfri
 

Mark,

Thanks for the reply but the seal is well adjusted.  I checked both with the dollar bill test and an infrared thermometer looking for cold spots.

Duane


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Frigoboat two speed fan not working

Duane Siegfri
 

I did do the dollar bill test and it seemed firm at all points.


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Climma AC Capacitors

eric freedman
 

Hi,

I just use a 35 dollar capacitor tester about every 6 months on every capacitor on Kimberlite. I always find a few that are low or too low to be operational.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2017 10:40 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Climma AC Capacitors

 

 

Sorry group to pile onto this topic however, this evening I found the forward stateroom filled with smoke.  After examination of the AC unit, one of the fan capacitors had a big hole in it.  I also located, what I believe are, the two start capacitors inside the control box.  Is it a safe assumption that all three AC units use the same 5 capacitors (3 fan and 2 start)?  My thought is to replace all the capacitors on all three AC units and put these on some kind of maintenance schedule.  Any feedback on whether this is a good idea?  If so, how often should they be switched out?

 

Any input is appreciated. 

 

Thank you.

SV Trillium

SM215

Brunswick, GA


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Frigoboat two speed fan not working

eric freedman
 

Hi ,

Did you do the dollar bill test on the refrigerator door seal?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2017 12:59 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Frigoboat two speed fan not working

 

 

We've been having higher temps in the Frigoboat refrigerator recently, over 50 degrees F.  

We have already pulled the unit out and cleaned the heat exchanger, and; made sure that all air supply spots are clear; and are now rearranging things inside to ensure interior air flow.  At first that seemed to remedy the situation, but now we're back to higher temps (just a few weeks in between).

 

My infrared thermometer has 32 deg. F at the coldplate so that doesn't seem to be the issue.

 

I'm going to order a new thermostat and see if that helps, is there anything else I should check?

 

While checking on these things, I've found the two speed fan is only working on one speed.  I know it worked in the past.  Is there a fan capacitor that might be the issue?

 

Thanks!

Duane


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Thickening polyurethane paint

Ben and Gayle Super Maramu #347
 

Thanks James.  I have found that thinks coats don't cure well
Ben 

Ben and Gayle 
La Bella Vita
SM #347
6S


On Jul 13, 2017, at 6:19 PM, James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Ben,   We have had problems using accelerators in single part paints and varnishes since they tend to cause early crazing and failure of the finish.  As far as paint viscosity, in general I have found that we  always need to thin single part Marine enamels which includes the Interlux Brightsides.   I normally thin until the last of the flow off of a paint stick breaks into drops rather than being a continuous flow.     It is better to apply these types of coatings in thinner coats and apply more of them since thick coatings don't cure properly.  I have found that it usually takes 3 coats of the Brightsides to fully cover the substrate though this is when working on vertical surfaces such as hulls and coverage is likely to be better on horizontal surfaces.   I cannot comment on the deck stripping tool since I have never used it but I am sure that you will get the input that you need from the experts here.  Best of luck.

James
On Jul 13, 2017, at 6:31 PM, 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Ben,

 

I think you are onto something that will work.

 

What color are you using to paint the deck striping?

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Grenada

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] 
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2017 5:15 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Thickening polyurethane paint

 

  

Mark

Not sure about accelerator but maybe a possibility.  I am using tool improperly per your comments.  I'm holding it closer to vertical than horizontal.  This is causing paint to drip out.  I'll try technique you suggest.  Also per 
Dave I may leave can open a while covered with mesh to allow some evaporation which will thicken paint.

Ben 

 

Ben and Gayle 

La Bella Vita

SM #347

6S

 


On Jul 13, 2017, at 4:09 PM, 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

  

Hi Ben,

 

Do you think an accelerator would help? https://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=98105&familyName=Quantum+99+Urethane+Accelerator

 

I am not sure you need to thicken the paint. It sounds like you need less of it on the application wheel. Are you using the tool so the barrel stays below the wheel? The tool should not be used upright. Ideally when using a pinstripe tool you want to illuminate as much gravity as you can. This will put less paint on the wheel. Also, if you put the non-paint end of the tool in the groove on the deck, it will help keep your line straight as you pull/push the tool to apply paint. Try this technique on a some paper first, it may be all you need.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Grenada

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] 
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2017 3:50 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Thickening polyurethane paint

 

 

Hi Mark

I'm painting deck stripes using Beugler tool

Ben 


Ben and Gayle

La Bella Vita

SM #347

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Thursday, July 13, 2017, 3:41 PM, 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Ben

 

Are you painting the deck stripes or boot stripes?

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Grenada

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] 
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2017 2:56 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Thickening polyurethane paint

 

  

It's time to repaint my stripes. I'm using an available interlux poly-urethane paint. My problem is paint is too thin and dripping from roller on striper.  Can anyone recommend a thickening agent?  Current mixture is 50/50 Interlux Brightside single part enamel and Interlux flattening agent.  All suggestions welcome.

 

Ben

Ben and Gayle

La Bella Vita

SM2k #347

Le Marin