Re: Good Service In Marmaris Turkey

svperegrinus@yahoo.com

Bill,

Thanks for the detailed explanation.  My only remaining question is if under "W", the autopilot is trying to optimize VMG to an Apparent Wind Angle AWA of zero, or is it trying to optimize to a shallower angle, say, 10° or 20°.  It seems to me that optimized VMG is not the same to a destination that is {0°, 10°, 20° or 30°} AWA of one's current position.

When under autopilot, we sail in "Wind" mode most of the time by far, so we'll try in the weeks and months ahead to see what we can learn of the VMG algorithm the B&G autopilot uses.  The only problem is that we try and avoid beating like the plague, so it may take a while to accumulate observations on VMG-optimization.

Cheerio,

Peregrinus
SM2K N. 350
at anchor, Thermopylae

---In amelyachtowners@..., <greatketch@...> wrote :

It definitely works in W(ind) mode.  What it is doing is finding the wind angle that will make the boat reach an imaginary waypoint directly to windward, as fast as possible. The VMG it is optimizing is the VMG to windward, NOT the VMG to the next navigation waypoint.

I know the manual gives very little to this function, but what it says (in total!) is "You can optimize the VMG to the wind. When selected the function will be active for 5-10 minutes after a new wind angle has been set and only when beating."

The assumption here is that if you are beating, then your desired destination must be to windward of your location. It actually doesn't matter for the optimization if that destination is directly to windward, as long as it is somewhere in the cone between the boat's tacking angles.

Note that the optimization in not continuous.  It works until it is finds an optimum that meets its criteria (what ever that is!), and then holds that wind angle.  If conditions change, such as wind strength or wave size, it is a good idea to command the unit to make a small change in course so it re-runs the optimization program.

As I said, I rarely use Wn (Wind Navigation) mode on my system, so I have little experience with how the VMG Optimization function works there, but based on what I understand about the Wn mode works, the VMG function wouldn't actually do anything

The optimized wind angle will always produce a speed through the water a bit slower than you could get if you bore off just a few degrees. Using the simplest possible analysis, if you are sailing 6 knots at a True Wind Angle of 55 degrees, anything better than 5.5 knots will give a better VMG at 49 degrees TWA

I do not know if this function uses only speed through the water and true wind angle for it's calculation, or if it adds in course and speed over ground.  I emailed B&G's tech support asking that question, but never got an answer.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Gloucester, Mass

Re: Good Service In Marmaris Turkey

greatketch@...

It definitely works in W(ind) mode.  What it is doing is finding the wind angle that will make the boat reach an imaginary waypoint directly to windward, as fast as possible. The VMG it is optimizing is the VMG to windward, NOT the VMG to the next navigation waypoint.

I know the manual gives very little to this function, but what it says (in total!) is "You can optimize the VMG to the wind. When selected the function will be active for 5-10 minutes after a new wind angle has been set and only when beating."

The assumption here is that if you are beating, then your desired destination must be to windward of your location. It actually doesn't matter for the optimization if that destination is directly to windward, as long as it is somewhere in the cone between the boat's tacking angles.

Note that the optimization in not continuous.  It works until it is finds an optimum that meets its criteria (what ever that is!), and then holds that wind angle.  If conditions change, such as wind strength or wave size, it is a good idea to command the unit to make a small change in course so it re-runs the optimization program.

As I said, I rarely use Wn (Wind Navigation) mode on my system, so I have little experience with how the VMG Optimization function works there, but based on what I understand about the Wn mode works, the VMG function wouldn't actually do anything

The optimized wind angle will always produce a speed through the water a bit slower than you could get if you bore off just a few degrees. Using the simplest possible analysis, if you are sailing 6 knots at a True Wind Angle of 55 degrees, anything better than 5.5 knots will give a better VMG at 49 degrees TWA

I do not know if this function uses only speed through the water and true wind angle for it's calculation, or if it adds in course and speed over ground.  I emailed B&G's tech support asking that question, but never got an answer.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Gloucester, Mass

Re: DC Panel dial and green light in star

rettirc@...

Yes I was using the spare halyard to dry the spinnaker, they do come down quickly, very glad it did not go overboard as we were motoring at the time.

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners re excitation and halyard broken and jammed

calbyy@...

some clues (thanks to servicing masts on Maramu 1982) concerning halyard stuck inside the mast
• halyards are running Inside mast independently from cables (electric, signal);
• cables are run through pvc pipes (2 x dia 32 mm) held by rivets or guided on rail;
• one place where halyards can get stuck is at top where cables are coming out of pvc tube;
• other place is on rivet heads (or bolts if modified ?) holding mast fittings in place;
• other place is rope jumped out of pulley block groove at top of mast;

one trip up the mast with Tools to remove screws holding mast fitting in place & a good look Inside mast seems to be the way before pulling rope with winch.
Wish you luck & a good trip to the top.

cheistian alby - Desirade VIII Maramu 116 now in Canet

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel sharki

INUS - BUSCH

Owen,

I like the Sharki too: She is giving to me a “save” feeling, much more than the other boats I had before. Sailing became more fun and less work, even if you are going alone! For small crew the best choice to my opinion.

All the best

Dieter
Fal-lera, Sharki #135

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Onan starting problem

Willem Kroes

I am referring to the horizontal placed solenoid connected to the red manual stop lever.

Regards, Willem

Re: DC Panel dial and green light in star

Ian Park

Chris,
My ballooner halliard does not run inside the mast. I do have a spare halliard that does just that. My ballooner halliard runs externally through a block at the top of the mast with both ends free to attach to the mouse on the ballooner. This enables me to take the halliard forward and sit with my feet in the starboard locker while I haul up and check the feed of the sail. Likewise, that's where I sit to drop the ballooner back into the locker.
Or were you just using the spare halliard to dry the sail?

Ian
Ocean Hobo SN96

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Down wind sail configuration

Ian Park

Dave
I think the best bet is to make an enquiry to AMEL. Other than that see if a rigging company can make a copy of your current pole - the end fittings must be fairly standard.
As to the frame: I had some concerns that mine had moved on the rigging so decided to straighten them up. I checked the angle of the short pole from the mast with other AMELs as mine seemed to slope down very slightly, but that does seem to be the correct. If you get them exactly at right angles to the mast they do not line up perfectly in their engagement holes or exactly with the retaining pins. The angle is very slight. But I tightened the rigging sections reasonably straight.
Perhaps someone else can add to this - the pole rigging is identical to the SM.
And, yes - the downwind performance is great to sit back and watch!

Trust you are enjoying your boat. best wishes

Ian
Ocean Hobo SN 96

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners re excitation and halyard broken and jammed

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS

Hi.
You should have 12bolt in the excitation circuit. Sorry can't help with the halyard issue but I'm sure someone will have been there before
Regards
Danny

Sent from my Vodafone Smart

On 16 Aug 2017 18:21, "rettirc@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Thanks Danny,

When I checked the excitation to the 12v alternator I only had 7volts, perhaps not enough to start the alternator?  I need to reconnect the cable back to the alternator and test it again.  Must be a bad contact somewhere.

I am totally stumped about what to do with the rope in the mast, only about 5 metres came out of the mast at the bottom after it broke, the rest of the rope is jammed inside the mast, thoughts?  What can I do?  I am trying to resist the urge to winch it out, I know it shall damage something.   Are the electrical wires in this section too?

Chris

Re: DC Panel dial and green light in star

rettirc@...

Thanks Danny,
When I checked the excitation to the 12v alternator I only had 7volts, perhaps not enough to start the alternator?  I need to reconnect the cable back to the alternator and test it again.  Must be a bad contact somewhere.

I am totally stumped about what to do with the rope in the mast, only about 5 metres came out of the mast at the bottom after it broke, the rest of the rope is jammed inside the mast, thoughts?  What can I do?  I am trying to resist the urge to winch it out, I know it shall damage something.   Are the electrical wires in this section too?

Chris

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel 54 with Volkswagen engine/owners

Halidun Karagoz

Hi Joel,
I hope this helps.
Cheers,
Haldun
A54 #164

---- 'Joel Potter' jfpottercys@... [amelyachtowners] şunu yazdı ----

>
>
> Hello everyone. Could some owners of Amel 54’s with the Volkswagen marine diesel give me some information regarding the following? I would appreciate it greatly and many thanks in advance.
>
>  OVERALL SATISFACTION: good
>
>  EASE OF ACCESS TO AUTHORIZED DEALER SERVICE/ ASSISTANCE:         good                                                          WHERE ARE YOU LOCATED:turkey
>
>  GENERAL QUALITY OF DEALER SERVICE:good
>
>  ANY REOCCURING TECHNICAL PROBLEMS:none
>
>  RELIABILITY/DEPENDABILITY:good
>
>
>
>  IF YOU ABSOLUTELY HAD TO PICK ANOTHER ENGINE, WHICH ONE WOULD IT BE:
>
>    Again, thanks in advance and I truly appreciate any and all responses. This information will allow me to better serve my Amel customers in the future.
>
>  All The Best, Joel
>
>  Joel F. Potter/Cruising Yacht Specialist LLC
>
> THE EXPERIENCED AMEL GUY
>
> 954 462 5869 office
>
> 954 812 2485 cell
>
>

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Fresh water in locker

Alan Leslie

We occasionally get condensation from the salon freezer in the aft central floor locker.

I've found the problem, it's the hose from the fresh water pump at the connection where it comes through the engine room bulkhead.

Problem was the leak was so small it was difficult to see where it was coming from, but by placing a small sponge in different places I was able to eliminate the freezer. and eventually trace it to that connector. The water was coming from the hose and running along the connector, down the bulkhead and then to the bottom of the locker. It would take about 5 minutes to see it in the bilge under the galley sink.

Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437

Re: Good Service In Marmaris Turkey

Alan Leslie

It was keeping a constant angle to the wind.
To do that it has to continually change the heading of the boat to keep the wind to heading angle constant.
This mode is great for passage making as the sails don't need constant attention.
The course is not constant, it varies with the wind direction.
If you have a constant heading or have a waypoint that the pilot is steering to, and the wind direction changes, you need to adjust the sails.....and sometimes you may not be able to and end up in irons or involuntarily gybing.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: wind steer and VMS

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS

When you use  vmg the boats progress is optimised based on progress directly into the wind and the course would change with changes in wind direction. However you can have vmg to a waypoint which is quite different.
Another alternative is not to set vmg but set it to maintain a constant angle to the wind.
In this setting you can trim your sails to the optimum for that wind angle and sit back and the boats course will alter as the wind shifts. One trip from nz to Fiji Yvonne and I set 4 sails on a broad reach and didn't trim once in the six days it took to get there. As the wind shifted the boat went 20 degrees off to one side of rumb line and then came back on the next wind swing. We sailed a winding course but never too far off track. It could take 24 hours to come back but it always did.
A dream run.

Regards
Danny
SM 299 Ocean Pearl

Sent from my Vodafone Smart

On 16 Aug 2017 16:20, "svperegrinus@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Bill Kinney, I'm with Craig on this: I understand how VMG optimization works on Wind Navigation.

I fail to see, however, how it might work on mere "W".  What would it optimize to, if it does not now where I intend to go to?

Having said that, yesterday afternoon (1st day ever after checking the "VMG Optimization" checkbox), my wife the Admiral was W sailing... plain W-autopilot sailing you see, and the thing did what you described: it actually changed my wife's designated angle, one degree at at time.  But we are not clear on what exactly the autopilot thinks it was doing.  Surely there is a reason.

Best,

Peregrinus
SM#350
At anchor, Thermopylae

---In amelyachtowners@..., <greatketch@...> wrote :

No, "W" wind only mode works fine for the VMG optimization.

I rarely use the "Wind Navigation" mode, and I am not sure exactly how VMG optimization would work there.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Gloucester, Mass

Re: Good Service In Marmaris Turkey

svperegrinus@yahoo.com

Bill Kinney, I'm with Craig on this: I understand how VMG optimization works on Wind Navigation.

I fail to see, however, how it might work on mere "W".  What would it optimize to, if it does not now where I intend to go to?

Having said that, yesterday afternoon (1st day ever after checking the "VMG Optimization" checkbox), my wife the Admiral was W sailing... plain W-autopilot sailing you see, and the thing did what you described: it actually changed my wife's designated angle, one degree at at time.  But we are not clear on what exactly the autopilot thinks it was doing.  Surely there is a reason.

Best,

Peregrinus
SM#350
At anchor, Thermopylae

---In amelyachtowners@..., <greatketch@...> wrote :

No, "W" wind only mode works fine for the VMG optimization.

I rarely use the "Wind Navigation" mode, and I am not sure exactly how VMG optimization would work there.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Gloucester, Mass

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Fresh water in locker

sailormon <kimberlite@...>

John,

Great item.

Thanks

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2017 9:49 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Fresh water in locker

Hi Alan,

I installed a new AC unit in the salon, and before I had the condensate line routed properly the condensate tray overflowed.  The water ran into that bilge locker area.  If that area is wet it is likely also wet under the sink.  On my boat the area under the sink is the lowest point.

I installed a water detector in the low point which alerted me to the issue, which was cleaned up with a few paper towels.  I have the same detectors in all the pockets where there could be a leak, FW or SW.  They are very inexpensive, but worth a million dollars when they catch a problem while it is at the "paper towel" stage.  Here is a link to the product I purchased on Ebay in the US.  I am sure there are similar devices elsewhere.

I have an early hull number which has a different set up than yours, my FW pump is under the floor in the galley, but of course there is always a lot of fresh water plumbing in the galley that could be contributing, you may have to simply trace the hoses.  The owners of one newer SM2k I toured last year had fresh water appearing in various pockets in the aft part of the salon which turned out to be from condensation on the lower surface of the aft bench freezer, may want to check the undersides of the freezers and the frig.

Regards,  John

John Clark

SV Annie,  SM 37

currently cruising Pamlico Sound, NC

On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 8:34 PM, divanz620@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Hello All,

I discovered fresh water in the under floor locker in front of the stove in the galley.

I can't see where it could have come from.

Any had this happen and know what the solution is ?

Cheers

Alan

Elyse SM437

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Alternator failing to start charge

John Clark

Danny is absolutely correct.  The 12v alternator should fire off right away, and I acknowledge that I have an issue that I need to trace out, it is on the list.   I  reread my post and I should have stated more clearly that my "current work around solution" is to rev the motor.

Oh and J-P,  you are correct.  Pull out the engine/transmission control lever and you can activate the throttle alone.

John Clark
SV Annie,  SM 37
currently cruising Pamlico Sound

On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 9:17 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

--Hi all,

I sent the below post under the wrong subject. I repeat it under the correct heading. My apologies.

Danny

Hi, I have bee waiting for the heavyweights to answer this but they are silent so far. For the alternator to start up it has to be excited by a 12 volt feed from the starting battery. this should occur when the key/switch is turned on before the starter is engaged. The blowers and a volt meter or ammeter (if fitted) should activate at the same time. The problem with the alternator not starting to charge would indicate the connection from the battery, through the key to the alternator is broken.(ie not functioning) This could be as simple as a bad contact in the key. Given its years of service this is quite possible;

The 24 volt alternator has to be excited by a 24 volt current from the house bank. This is achieved by a 12 volt current from the starting battery through the key activating a solenoid switch closing a circuit from the house bank to the 24 volt alternator.

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

On 16 August 2017 at 04:14 "John Clark john.biohead@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...om> wrote:

Hi Chris,
Darn it Mike beat me to it!   Yes, it is the light for the compass at the helm.  You can dim it as needed to maintain night vision.   I know there will be a few issues with a boat that has as many systems as the Amel, but with the forum you should be able to find answers from people who have been there....and one or two that have literally written books on the Amel.

I might address your 12v main engine alternator issue.  I have an older SM that was updated to the same engine I suspect you have, the Volvo TMD22.   My 12v alternator sometimes does not want to wake up in the morning.  What has resolved the issue was to rev the engine to about 2000rpm in neutral(go into engine room and locally activate the throttle linkage without putting transmission in gear) then quickly back to idle.  Might take a try or two.  It usually catches.  Once woken up it is good for the day.   Is your tachometer also showing no activity?

Regards,   John

John Clark
SV Annie  SM37
cruising Pamlico Sound

On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 11:58 AM, Mike Ondra mdondra@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...om> wrote:

Binnacle light

Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Droid
On Aug 15, 2017 11:47 AM, "rettirc@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...om> wrote:

After being on our new (to us) Super Maramu for about 2 weeks, there have been a few challenges thrown at me from generator stopping, air conditioning raw water pump issues, 12v alternator on main engine not working, torn head sail, blocked electric toilet, tender outboard overheating, flat start battery, main battery bank low,..............etc

I am starting to learn the ropes of boat ownership!!!!!!  I was once told, "the only that that works on a boat, is the owner".

Anyway we have just arrived in Langkawi, Malaysia from Phuket, Thailand and honestly enjoying the boat.

My question is, what is the dial on the DC panel for?  It does turn on a green light in the star, however I am sure it has another purpose, could somebody please help me.  The very few manuals I have are in French and I failed that subjec t at school.

On another note, just to ensure I don't get bored, I have new standing rigging arriving in the next few days from ACMO.

Chris

SM224

Lena S, changing to Jaygo

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Fresh water in locker

John Clark

Hi Alan,
I installed a new AC unit in the salon, and before I had the condensate line routed properly the condensate tray overflowed.  The water ran into that bilge locker area.  If that area is wet it is likely also wet under the sink.  On my boat the area under the sink is the lowest point.

I installed a water detector in the low point which alerted me to the issue, which was cleaned up with a few paper towels.  I have the same detectors in all the pockets where there could be a leak, FW or SW.  They are very inexpensive, but worth a million dollars when they catch a problem while it is at the "paper towel" stage.  Here is a link to the product I purchased on Ebay in the US.  I am sure there are similar devices elsewhere.

I have an early hull number which has a different set up than yours, my FW pump is under the floor in the galley, but of course there is always a lot of fresh water plumbing in the galley that could be contributing, you may have to simply trace the hoses.  The owners of one newer SM2k I toured last year had fresh water appearing in various pockets in the aft part of the salon which turned out to be from condensation on the lower surface of the aft bench freezer, may want to check the undersides of the freezers and the frig.

Regards,  John

John Clark
SV Annie,  SM 37
currently cruising Pamlico Sound, NC

On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 8:34 PM, divanz620@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

Hello All,

I discovered fresh water in the under floor locker in front of the stove in the galley.

I can't see where it could have come from.

Any had this happen and know what the solution is ?

Cheers

Alan

Elyse SM437

Alternator failing to start charge

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS

--Hi all,

I sent the below post under the wrong subject. I repeat it under the correct heading. My apologies.

Danny

Hi, I have bee waiting for the heavyweights to answer this but they are silent so far. For the alternator to start up it has to be excited by a 12 volt feed from the starting battery. this should occur when the key/switch is turned on before the starter is engaged. The blowers and a volt meter or ammeter (if fitted) should activate at the same time. The problem with the alternator not starting to charge would indicate the connection from the battery, through the key to the alternator is broken.(ie not functioning) This could be as simple as a bad contact in the key. Given its years of service this is quite possible;

The 24 volt alternator has to be excited by a 24 volt current from the house bank. This is achieved by a 12 volt current from the starting battery through the key activating a solenoid switch closing a circuit from the house bank to the 24 volt alternator.

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

On 16 August 2017 at 04:14 "John Clark john.biohead@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Hi Chris,
Darn it Mike beat me to it!   Yes, it is the light for the compass at the helm.  You can dim it as needed to maintain night vision.   I know there will be a few issues with a boat that has as many systems as the Amel, but with the forum you should be able to find answers from people who have been there....and one or two that have literally written books on the Amel.

I might address your 12v main engine alternator issue.  I have an older SM that was updated to the same engine I suspect you have, the Volvo TMD22.   My 12v alternator sometimes does not want to wake up in the morning.  What has resolved the issue was to rev the engine to about 2000rpm in neutral(go into engine room and locally activate the throttle linkage without putting transmission in gear) then quickly back to idle.  Might take a try or two.  It usually catches.  Once woken up it is good for the day.   Is your tachometer also showing no activity?

Regards,   John

John Clark
SV Annie  SM37
cruising Pamlico Sound

On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 11:58 AM, Mike Ondra mdondra@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Binnacle light

Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Droid
On Aug 15, 2017 11:47 AM, "rettirc@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

After being on our new (to us) Super Maramu for about 2 weeks, there have been a few challenges thrown at me from generator stopping, air conditioning raw water pump issues, 12v alternator on main engine not working, torn head sail, blocked electric toilet, tender outboard overheating, flat start battery, main battery bank low,..............etc

I am starting to learn the ropes of boat ownership!!!!!!  I was once told, "the only that that works on a boat, is the owner".

Anyway we have just arrived in Langkawi, Malaysia from Phuket, Thailand and honestly enjoying the boat.

My question is, what is the dial on the DC panel for?  It does turn on a green light in the star, however I am sure it has another purpose, could somebody please help me.  The very few manuals I have are in French and I failed that subjec t at school.

On another note, just to ensure I don't get bored, I have new standing rigging arriving in the next few days from ACMO.

Chris

SM224

Lena S, changing to Jaygo

Fresh water in locker

Alan Leslie

Hello All,

I discovered fresh water in the under floor locker in front of the stove in the galley.

I can't see where it could have come from.

Any had this happen and know what the solution is ?

Cheers

Alan

Elyse SM437

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