Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] NIKIMAT Illustrations & Parts for sale

rossirossix4
 

Alexandre,
Speaking for all of us, I am sure.  Thank you so much for your guides.  We have used them over the years and they are a GodSend.  So well documented and instructions are so thorough and clear.  Thank you, thank you, thank you!

Bob and Suzanne, KAIMI SM429


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow locker bottoms...

James Alton
 

Kent,

   The bow lockers on our boat and the chain locker were also very wet and heavily mildewed  when we bought the boat.  They now stay almost completely dry but it takes a little effort.  All three spaces are essentially unvented so any moisture present from damp lines/fenders etc. will never dry inside any of these  lockers.  Salt  is hydroscopic so when the humidity is high any the items in the locker that have salt on them ( even if they felt dry when placed in the locker) will absorb moisture from the air that will be driven out during the daily heating cycle to condense when the locker cools.    Perhaps you have noticed that though the bottom of the bow locker lids seem dry during the daytime, and then lid is dripping wet in the morning?   Another entry for water that I discovered, is that when underway in waves that are more than about 2’ a bit of saltwater enters through the locker drains from spray and can soak into anything that is absorbent  laying on the locker bottom.  I am using closed cell foam to slightly elevate the lines off of the locker bottom to help prevent this.   I am looking now for a mesh plastic grating that is sometimes used in dog pens that might work better than the foam.  The other things that I do to try to keep my bow lockers dry is to remove any salt contained in the locker itself or in the contents on a regular basis and to thoroughly dry all of the items before putting them back in the locker.  I also open the lockers during the periods of dry weather to encourage drying since even after all of this I will sometimes get a minor amount of condensation on the bottom of the lid after a cool night.  If the rest of the locker is dry, this bit of moisture will dry off quickly with the lid open.  Finally,  when I store the boat in the off season, I put a fabric cover over the entire bow area which keeps the direct sun off of the lockers to reduce the maximum temperature.  When I returned to the boat this season,  I was pleased to find no mildew growth inside either bow locker and that everything inside was completely dry.   

    In my anchor locker,  I noticed that there was often condensation hanging in drops from the underside of the the locker.  Rinsing and drying the chain on deck plus leaving the water tight door in the bow open eliminated this problem but it is a bit of work to keep up with and requires a good bit of fresh water.   I think that your suggestion to replace the plywood with a non-cellulose panel would be a good idea since the anchor locker especially is going to be wet most of the time when cruising.   

   
James Alton
SV Sueno,  Maramu #220

On Oct 15, 2017, at 10:28 PM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


My bow lockers are notoriously damp, not sure how water is getting in.

I really don't think any chemical will help if you get a hole in the sealing layer, what ever it is.  If yours is still solid, I would glass over it after it has dried thoroughly.  That won't protect it from below, but nothing is likely to damage it from below.  If its feeling squishy at all, I'd replace with something that won't rot, or glass over a good marine plywood.
Kent
SM243
Kristy





Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] NIKIMAT Illustrations & Parts for sale

scentstone
 

Hi Alexandre,

Thank you for the extensive job with your guidelines and manuals.
I hope you're doing better now.
Keep in mind my previous offer and ring bell anytime ;-)

Fred
S/V ScentStone #375
(currently East Australia)


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] points to check before buying 2003 Amel SM 2000

Teun BAAS <teunbaas@...>
 

Hi Steven,

 

I am also Dutch but live in USA.

Have retained Bill ROUSE for an AMEL currently in the South Pacific.

 

I can attest that retaining Bill is money well spent; he will send you pre-purchase check lists with instructions of specific areas to photograph (200 pics). He will then remotely study & review them and giver you his comments. I know he has been able to point out deficiencies/issues which were not observed/mentioned by a surveyor but, upon further inspection, turned out to be correct.

 

Best regards Teun BAAS

 

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2017 1:22 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] points to check before buying 2003 Amel SM 2000

 

 

Hi Mark,

 

I´ll keep that in mind.

 

I´m Dutch and looked at a 53´´ In Holland.

 

Thanks for your input.

 

regards,

 

Steven 

 

 

Op 17 Oct 2017, om 19:47 heeft 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> het volgende geschreven:

 

 

Steven,

 

Get a good surveyor, one that knows Amels. There are plenty mentioned on this forum.

 

Call Bill Rouse and get him involved. This will be money VERY well spent. (I’m assuming you are in the USA or North America)

 

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

 

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Grenada

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] 
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2017 11:17 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] points to check before buying 2003 Amel SM 2000

 

  

Hi everyone,

 

Any weak points to check before purchasing an Amel  SM 2000 build in 2003???

 

 

Kindly regards,

 

Steven

 

 

 

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] points to check before buying 2003 Amel SM 2000

Dan Carlson
 

Hi Steven,  if it is the one I looked at 2yrs ago it needs a good survey and a very solid plan of action. 

Happy to pick up with you off line.

Dan Carlson, 
SM 387, sv BeBe




On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 6:05 PM, Steven Nieman stefnieman@... [amelyachtowners]
wrote:
 

Hi Mark,


I´ll keep that in mind.

I´m Dutch and looked at a 53´´ In Holland.

Thanks for your input.

regards,

Steven 


Op 17 Oct 2017, om 19:47 heeft 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> het volgende geschreven:


Steven,

 

Get a good surveyor, one that knows Amels. There are plenty mentioned on this forum.

 

Call Bill Rouse and get him involved. This will be money VERY well spent. (I’m assuming you are in the USA or North America)

 

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970

 

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Grenada

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] 
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2017 11:17 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] points to check before buying 2003 Amel SM 2000

 

  

Hi everyone,

 

Any weak points to check before purchasing an Amel  SM 2000 build in 2003???

 

 

Kindly regards,

 

Steven

 

 




[Amel Yacht Owners] NIKIMAT Illustrations & Parts for sale

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Good afternoon,

I just finished a “crude” page on http://nikimat.com
with links to most the Illustrations I did, plus Owner Manuals, etc.

Toward the bottom you will see “Parts for sale”.
For now I only listed the Volvo engine parts (can’t believe it total to over $8550 + tax/shipping).
I haven’t posted what price I would like, thought of 20% below the US price I paid (which means 35% below Caribbean prices), open to suggestions.
I would prefer the parts to be picked up locally in Sint Maarten.
Even if you are not buyer, you can always look at the part number, pictures and drawing for reference.

Working next on the generator.

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Lost on September 6 during Hurricane Irma at
IGY Simpson Bay Marina, St Maarten, NA


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] points to check before buying 2003 Amel SM 2000

James Cromie
 

I echo the comments of others on this topic. 
My wife and I are in the process of purchasing an Amel presently.  
We initially looked at Amel SM2000’s without the help of anyone with expertise with these unique boats.  After we had looked at a boat, we decided to ask Bill Rouse for pre-purchasing consulting. 
His advice and experience was invaluable in the process for us.  If I did it over again, I would have had Bill help from the very beginning before even looking at a boat.  

I would also echo the opinion that an experienced surveyor who has specific expertise with Amels is critical.  If you hire a surveyor who doesn’t have that experience, you will be throwing away $1500 or so,  and have little useful information from the survey, in my opinion.  I can say that from personal experience!

I have learned a great deal about Amels in the short time that I have known Bill R.

Similarly, this forum has been a fount of knowledge, opinions, and overall useful advice for new owners like ourselves.  I’m compiling a book of my own from many of the threads generated on this forum.  

James
(sub-title pending…)


On Oct 17, 2017, at 4:34 PM, mfmcgovern@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

I am a new owner of SM #440 Cara (July 2017).  I second Mark's comments:


1.  Get a surveyor who knows Amels.  I used Olivier Beaute for two separate surveys and can't recommend him strongly enough.  One deal I walked away from and the other one I bought the boat.  I don't regret either outcome.  Olivier worked for Amel for ~20 years and knows these boats better than probably anyone alive.  He charges the same as other surveyors and he gives you an introductory education about the boat and it's systems while he conducts the survey as long as you attend the survey.  It's priceless.  Contact info:  Olivier BEAUTE atlanticyachtsurvey@...Mob: +33 674 028 243; olivierbeaute AT gmail dot com

2. Get in touch with Bill Rouse even if you are not in North America.  Air travel and hotels are relatively cheap.  The experience and knowledge that comes from 11 years owning, living on, and sailing an Amel SM is priceless. 


Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD





Re: points to check before buying 2003 Amel SM 2000

mfmcgovern@...
 

I am a new owner of SM #440 Cara (July 2017).  I second Mark's comments:

1.  Get a surveyor who knows Amels.  I used Olivier Beaute for two separate surveys and can't recommend him strongly enough.  One deal I walked away from and the other one I bought the boat.  I don't regret either outcome.  Olivier worked for Amel for ~20 years and knows these boats better than probably anyone alive.  He charges the same as other surveyors and he gives you an introductory education about the boat and it's systems while he conducts the survey as long as you attend the survey.  It's priceless.  Contact info:  Olivier BEAUTE atlanticyachtsurvey@... Mob: +33 674 028 243; olivierbeaute AT gmail dot com

2. Get in touch with Bill Rouse even if you are not in North America.  Air travel and hotels are relatively cheap.  The experience and knowledge that comes from 11 years owning, living on, and sailing an Amel SM is priceless. 


Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] points to check before buying 2003 Amel SM 2000

John Clark
 

I Steven,
    I second Mark's suggestions.  A surveyor who knows Amel and Bill Rouse consulting will go a long what to keep you out of trouble.  Joel Potter also is a good resource.   Depending on where your prospective vessel is located it may cost you a few thousand for the right surveyor.  It is worth it. 

As far as "weak' points, I don't feel that there are any significant engineering weaknesses in the SM model.  What to watch out for is damage to the expensive unique to Amel parts, like the C-drive, masts, boom, and of course the hull.    Most every boat (except Bebe :) will have some maintenance issues to address.   The" right boat" for you is a complex equation factoring in the price, the condition of the vessel, the qualifications of the purchaser, with regard to making repairs or improvements, and the history of the hull.  Don't buy a boat that has been damaged and repaired.



If you are handy with boat maintenance and inclined to take on projects then a boat that needs some work or that is not showroom new, but with a low enough price, could be a better deal than a perfect circumnavigation-ready model with a premium price tag.  I enjoy tinkering with things so a little bit of "work needed" was not a turn off for me, and my boat's price was significantly below market.  I am totally please with my Amel.  

 For me "work needed" was something like fixing the furling drives.  For example, it was evident in the brokers photos, and the survey, that the furling gears needed attention.  If one had Amel fix the issue it would certainly run into thousands of dollars.  With help from the Owners Forum, I replaced my gears, added recommended" Amel Owners Forum modifications to the gears to prevent future issues," and cleaned and rebrushed the motors.  I now have a detailed understanding of the mechanism, and spent less than $700 USD.  I would not have as full an understanding if I had not gotten into the parts as I did.  I feel much better starting a circumnavigation having spent the time on them, and a few other issues while still in the States.  

Regards,  John....and good luch with your purchase.  Feel free to email me if you have questions.

John Clark
SV Annie SM 37
waiting for low tide in the Pamlico Sound
  


On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 1:47 PM, 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Steven,

 

Get a good surveyor, one that knows Amels. There are plenty mentioned on this forum.

 

Call Bill Rouse and get him involved. This will be money VERY well spent. (I’m assuming you are in the USA or North America)

 

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970

 

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Grenada

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com [mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2017 11:17 AM
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] points to check before buying 2003 Amel SM 2000

 

 

Hi everyone,

 

Any weak points to check before purchasing an Amel  SM 2000 build in 2003???

 

 

Kindly regards,

 

Steven

 

 



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] points to check before buying 2003 Amel SM 2000

Steven Nieman
 

Hi Mark,

I´ll keep that in mind.

I´m Dutch and looked at a 53´´ In Holland.

Thanks for your input.

regards,

Steven 


Op 17 Oct 2017, om 19:47 heeft 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> het volgende geschreven:


Steven,

 

Get a good surveyor, one that knows Amels. There are plenty mentioned on this forum.

 

Call Bill Rouse and get him involved. This will be money VERY well spent. (I’m assuming you are in the USA or North America)

 

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970

 

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Grenada

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] 
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2017 11:17 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] points to check before buying 2003 Amel SM 2000

 

  

Hi everyone,

 

Any weak points to check before purchasing an Amel  SM 2000 build in 2003???

 

 

Kindly regards,

 

Steven

 

 




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Island Pearl II - 2001 - SM2000 #332 For sale

Steven Nieman
 

Dear Colin,

Thanks for your reply,

I´m happy for you that you keep on sailing.

Hopefully we´ll meet some day and thanks for letting  me know that I may contact you in the future for advice etc.

Kindest Regards,

Steve

Op 17 Oct 2017, om 19:46 heeft Sailing Island Pearl colin.d.streeter@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> het volgende geschreven:


Hi Steve

Apology for the delayed response. This has taken some serious thought this week since Lauren is now definitely not doing the Indian Ocean crossing (or Red Sea if we sail that way instead) with me, and we have therefore been wondering about selling, or me sailing on alone.

Our final decision however is that I will sail on (with crew), and Lauren will join the boat again in the Caribbean (or Greece) and hence we will not be selling the boat during 2017/8.

I see on the forum that you may possibly have found a suitable 2003 model SM, so we do wish you all the very best of luck with that one. 

These boats are absolutely fantastic, and sailing here in Indonesia and Asia, with so many other boats (previously Sail 2 Indonesia Rally with 60 other boats) I can assure you there has not been a single other boat out there which we would have preferred for this trip. The Amel 53 simply handles everything in her stride, everything works like clockwork, she is fitted with every luxury we could ever need, and we seem to be living in far better comfort than all the others, sailing faster/ covering greater daily distances, be they on cats or larger mono hulls. Captain Henry Amel certainly did a fantastic job with the Super Maramu 2000's! You will love it!

Good luck with your purchase decision. We hope to meet you on the water some time in your new Amel, and just let me know if you need any advice/ help? We will probably be in Cape Town in Nov 2018.

Cheers

Colin Streeter
SV Island Pearl II, Amel 53 #332
Currently in Singapore





 

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 10:26 PM, stefnieman@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hello,


Is your Amel still on the market?
If so can I mail you?

kindest Regards,

Steve Nieman




-- 
Colin Streeter
0411 016 445



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] points to check before buying 2003 Amel SM 2000

Mark Erdos
 

Steven,

 

Get a good surveyor, one that knows Amels. There are plenty mentioned on this forum.

 

Call Bill Rouse and get him involved. This will be money VERY well spent. (I’m assuming you are in the USA or North America)

 

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970

 

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Grenada

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2017 11:17 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] points to check before buying 2003 Amel SM 2000

 

 

Hi everyone,

 

Any weak points to check before purchasing an Amel  SM 2000 build in 2003???

 

 

Kindly regards,

 

Steven

 

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Island Pearl II - 2001 - SM2000 #332 For sale

Colin - ex SV Island Pearl
 

Hi Steve

Apology for the delayed response. This has taken some serious thought this week since Lauren is now definitely not doing the Indian Ocean crossing (or Red Sea if we sail that way instead) with me, and we have therefore been wondering about selling, or me sailing on alone.

Our final decision however is that I will sail on (with crew), and Lauren will join the boat again in the Caribbean (or Greece) and hence we will not be selling the boat during 2017/8.

I see on the forum that you may possibly have found a suitable 2003 model SM, so we do wish you all the very best of luck with that one. 

These boats are absolutely fantastic, and sailing here in Indonesia and Asia, with so many other boats (previously Sail 2 Indonesia Rally with 60 other boats) I can assure you there has not been a single other boat out there which we would have preferred for this trip. The Amel 53 simply handles everything in her stride, everything works like clockwork, she is fitted with every luxury we could ever need, and we seem to be living in far better comfort than all the others, sailing faster/ covering greater daily distances, be they on cats or larger mono hulls. Captain Henry Amel certainly did a fantastic job with the Super Maramu 2000's! You will love it!

Good luck with your purchase decision. We hope to meet you on the water some time in your new Amel, and just let me know if you need any advice/ help? We will probably be in Cape Town in Nov 2018.

Cheers

Colin Streeter
SV Island Pearl II, Amel 53 #332
Currently in Singapore





 

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 10:26 PM, stefnieman@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hello,


Is your Amel still on the market?
If so can I mail you?

kindest Regards,

Steve Nieman




--
Colin Streeter
0411 016 445


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Distributed vs. Conventional Electrical Systems

Mike Johnson
 

Agree entirely with Bill R’s comments.

We have never found any defect with Henri Amel’s basic concept or workmanship on the SM2K.

The only problems we have faced is where others have attempted ‘fixes’ to the original specifications.

Very best wishes 

Mike & Peta

Solitude
SM2K 461

On 17 Oct 2017, at 17:11, 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Amen Brother!!!

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Grenada

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2017 11:16 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Distributed vs. Conventional Electrical Systems

 

 

Bill K and Pat,

 

I would never say that "I think Bill K's point is that he thinks Capt. Henri's original engineering was poorly done and left an unsafe condition with unprotected long wire runs."

 

I would not say anything like that for numerous reasons. I think you know why.

 

Since Henri Amel is not here to defend his decisions made many years ago, I will remind everyone that at the time these decisions were made they very likely conformed 100% with the regulations in force in Europe and conformed with the thinking at the time. Let's compare Henri Amel's engineering decisions to General Motors at the same time:

- Disintegrating plastic bumper parts

- 4-6-8 engines with 100% failure

- Gasoline to Diesel conversions with almost 100% failure

- Reduction of plasticides in paint which caused paint to fade in 6 years

- Plastic transmission parts which caused a new industry to emerge to repair transmissions

- Fiero & Corvair (one name says it all)

- Foam headliners which fell in 5 years

- Chrome coated plastic which lasted about 2 years

on, and on, and on.

 

Can one improve on yesterday's technology? Certainly! 

Can one not understand decisions made yesterday? Absolutely!

Should one of us criticize Henri Amel? Never!

 

Anyway, this is my sermon for the month. I hope that you enjoyed it. 

 

Best,

 

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  
http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970

 

 

 

 

 

On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 8:39 AM, sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Pat, 

Yes, that's why I thought Alan's adding the Blue Sea fuses at the batteries sounded wise. Btw, in my house the distribution panel is smack in the middle of the house which reduces the total amount of wiring. It does, of course, have a main service breaker at the external drop wire, analogous to Alan's Blue Sea fuse. Then there are separate fused disconnects adjacent to heavy loads like the A/C and hot water heater in addition to breakers for those at the distribution panel.

 

I think Bill K's point is that he thinks Capt. Henri's original engineering was poorly done and left an unsafe condition with unprotected long wire runs. Alan seems to have a good solution.  And, while the new Amel centralized panel would meet Bill K's criterion, it is (likely) not fused close to the batteries, leaving the same risk of chafe and shorting in either the wires going to the panel or the wires going to the engine & generator starting motors.

 

I do suspect that the industry will continue to modernize with Distributed electric systems and have not overlooked the risk of shorting in the long runs, although I haven't looked into it enough to know exactly how it is addressed.

 

Craig SN68



---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

Craig , Your original post seemed to support locating breakers far from the power source , however this post seems to acknowledge the protection offered by locating breakers as close as possible to the battery bank. You even pointed to boat that burned up cables as a result of a short . Now I must be missing something . When I build a house , I have 220v/ 200 amps coming through a  wall , I locate the distribution panel as close as possible to where it comes thru the wall. The ele ctric immediately goes thru appropriate size breakers and passes thru appropriate sized wiring on to  outlets ,  pumps ,etc . In the event of a short there is little chance of the wire being overloaded . You do not use 14g wire with a 20 amp breaker ! In a house you would not run a 220v line to a laundry room and place the breaker on the wall behind the dryer. I have never understood the difference between protecting a boat vs. a house . But , maybe I am missing something, it would not be the first time.

Pat

SM #123

-----Original Message-----
From: sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Mon, Oct 16, 2017 9:34 am
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Distributed vs. Conventional Electrical Systems

 

Alan,

That seems an excellent idea. I remember that in 2001 I totally redid SM Miss Lindy's wiring (don't recall the hull number) after it completely burned out for the third time. All the heavy cables in the engine room, from battery to starter to generator to main house feeds had melted solid. As I finished up I still had low volts from the engine to the battery.  Traced it to the starting cables having chaffed about 12 inches down inside the PVC pipe from the battery to the engine (that was supposedly there to prevent chafe). Your solution would have prevented much heartache and expense. 

Will be interested in Bill K's bounce. Perhaps the modern distributed systems do incorporate that.

Craig SN#68


---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

well said Bill,

BUT that's exactly what we have on our SMs....th e anchor windlass, the genoa furler etc have the breakers at the "other end" of the cables that run from the house bank...and...on the standard setup, there are NO FUSES near the battery connections. 

I've put large Blue Sea fuses in the battery compartment on each of my 3 banks of 4 6V series batteries to try to address these issues.

What have you done ?

Cheers

Alan

Elyse SM437

 

Craig,

 

I think you (and Amel in the "old days") are simply missing the point of circuit breakers.  They are most certainly NOT there to protect the anchor washdown pump, or t he thruster motor, or any other piece of equipment.  There is nothing a circuit breaker can do to "protect" the pump motor, or other device:  If it shorts, it has already died! If, in normal operation, it draws too much current for the wiring to support, then the wiring is undersized.

 

Circuit breakers are there to protect the WIRING and prevent the catastrophic results that can occur if a short occurs ANYWHERE that overloads the wiring.  This can occur from many faults, none of them likely, but all with disastrous consequences.  Wire chafe is probably the most common cause on boats, but others happen. I'd guess loose connections are a close second.  

 

Having a breaker at the far end of the wire, away from the battery, completely misses the point of why it is there in the first place. In my opinion, if you have a circuit breaker at the point of use of the power, you might as well just replace it with a switch--it is essentially useless. 

 

When I ran a service department for a large charter company, one of the annual safety meetings I ran for for my staff was to dead short circuit a 12 volt battery through 14 gauge wire.  Watching solid copper wire burst into flame and literally explode was a sobering experience for people who could easily get into the habit of thinking "its only 12 volts." It really made the point about why fuses and circuit breakers were essential.

 

There is nothing at all wrong with distributed CONTROL of an electrical system. That is just fancy electronics.  But... you can not "distribute" protection of the wiring. I have never heard a  good reason to run long lengths of un-fused wiring on a boat--or anywhere else.  It is just dangerous--and for absolutely no benefit.  Dangerous overloads rarely occur because of equipment problems.  They occur because of wiring faults.  Do they happen often?  No, not at all. But when they do, it is truly terrifying.  

 

C-zone, Ocotplex, etc, a re NOT wiring protection systems.  They are not "circuit breakers".  They are CONTROL systems.  Very different animals.

 

I have seen several boat fires at much closer quarters than I ever hope to repeat, and most of them were electrical in origin, all from things that shouldn't have happened--but did.  

 

Bill Kinney

Sm160, Harmonie

Back Creek, Annapolis, MD

 

 



---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

I'd always thought Amel was ahead of the curve with its Distributed Electrical System. That seems to be the direction the industry is going, now with solid state circuit breakers controlled through the NMEA2000 data network. Eliminates the large industrial style circuit breaker panels of yore and adds great flexibility. Check out CAPI2, C-Zone, Octoplex, etc. Seems Amel is going backwards technologically if they're centralizing. Let's see, your anchor washdown pump shorts and rather than it tripping an adjacent breaker it's got to overload a 15 meter long cable run back to the central circuit breaker panel. To say nothing of the excess wiring to give all equipment a "home run". Must be missing something in this discussion.

Cheers, Craig SN68 Sangaris

< br>

 


Re: points to check before buying 2003 Amel SM 2000

Chuck_Kim_Joy
 

Hi Steven,
As a recent buyer I will tell tell you one thing to watch for. Everyone will have their 'first and foremosts' but my recent experience is the bow thruster. Inspect it, know the parts and how they operate together, ask about the age of the parts. All original? Any spares. Not a show stopper but definitely plan on having a spare because this system is sooo important. Mine went out prior to my maiden voyage. I still got out for a week but forget about close quarter maneuvering or anything with strong wind or current. A new motor/actuator (the little one that moves the big one up & down) is not cheap, harder to come by as the months/years go on and a long lead time if you need one.

Chuck
s/v Joy #388


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Distributed vs. Conventional Electrical Systems

Mark Erdos
 

Amen Brother!!!

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Grenada

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2017 11:16 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Distributed vs. Conventional Electrical Systems

 

 

Bill K and Pat,

 

I would never say that "I think Bill K's point is that he thinks Capt. Henri's original engineering was poorly done and left an unsafe condition with unprotected long wire runs."

 

I would not say anything like that for numerous reasons. I think you know why.

 

Since Henri Amel is not here to defend his decisions made many years ago, I will remind everyone that at the time these decisions were made they very likely conformed 100% with the regulations in force in Europe and conformed with the thinking at the time. Let's compare Henri Amel's engineering decisions to General Motors at the same time:

- Disintegrating plastic bumper parts

- 4-6-8 engines with 100% failure

- Gasoline to Diesel conversions with almost 100% failure

- Reduction of plasticides in paint which caused paint to fade in 6 years

- Plastic transmission parts which caused a new industry to emerge to repair transmissions

- Fiero & Corvair (one name says it all)

- Foam headliners which fell in 5 years

- Chrome coated plastic which lasted about 2 years

on, and on, and on.

 

Can one improve on yesterday's technology? Certainly! 

Can one not understand decisions made yesterday? Absolutely!

Should one of us criticize Henri Amel? Never!

 

Anyway, this is my sermon for the month. I hope that you enjoyed it. 

 

Best,

 

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  
http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970

 

 

 

 

 

On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 8:39 AM, sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Pat, 

Yes, that's why I thought Alan's adding the Blue Sea fuses at the batteries sounded wise. Btw, in my house the distribution panel is smack in the middle of the house which reduces the total amount of wiring. It does, of course, have a main service breaker at the external drop wire, analogous to Alan's Blue Sea fuse. Then there are separate fused disconnects adjacent to heavy loads like the A/C and hot water heater in addition to breakers for those at the distribution panel.

 

I think Bill K's point is that he thinks Capt. Henri's original engineering was poorly done and left an unsafe condition with unprotected long wire runs. Alan seems to have a good solution.  And, while the new Amel centralized panel would meet Bill K's criterion, it is (likely) not fused close to the batteries, leaving the same risk of chafe and shorting in either the wires going to the panel or the wires going to the engine & generator starting motors.

 

I do suspect that the industry will continue to modernize with Distributed electric systems and have not overlooked the risk of shorting in the long runs, although I haven't looked into it enough to know exactly how it is addressed.

 

Craig SN68



---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

Craig , Your original post seemed to support locating breakers far from the power source , however this post seems to acknowledge the protection offered by locating breakers as close as possible to the battery bank. You even pointed to boat that burned up cables as a result of a short . Now I must be missing something . When I build a house , I have 220v/ 200 amps coming through a  wall , I locate the distribution panel as close as possible to where it comes thru the wall. The ele ctric immediately goes thru appropriate size breakers and passes thru appropriate sized wiring on to  outlets ,  pumps ,etc . In the event of a short there is little chance of the wire being overloaded . You do not use 14g wire with a 20 amp breaker ! In a house you would not run a 220v line to a laundry room and place the breaker on the wall behind the dryer. I have never understood the difference between protecting a boat vs. a house . But , maybe I am missing something, it would not be the first time.

Pat

SM #123

-----Original Message-----
From: sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Mon, Oct 16, 2017 9:34 am
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Distributed vs. Conventional Electrical Systems

 

Alan,

That seems an excellent idea. I remember that in 2001 I totally redid SM Miss Lindy's wiring (don't recall the hull number) after it completely burned out for the third time. All the heavy cables in the engine room, from battery to starter to generator to main house feeds had melted solid. As I finished up I still had low volts from the engine to the battery.  Traced it to the starting cables having chaffed about 12 inches down inside the PVC pipe from the battery to the engine (that was supposedly there to prevent chafe). Your solution would have prevented much heartache and expense. 

Will be interested in Bill K's bounce. Perhaps the modern distributed systems do incorporate that.

Craig SN#68


---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

well said Bill,

BUT that's exactly what we have on our SMs....th e anchor windlass, the genoa furler etc have the breakers at the "other end" of the cables that run from the house bank...and...on the standard setup, there are NO FUSES near the battery connections. 

I've put large Blue Sea fuses in the battery compartment on each of my 3 banks of 4 6V series batteries to try to address these issues.

What have you done ?

Cheers

Alan

Elyse SM437

 

Craig,

 

I think you (and Amel in the "old days") are simply missing the point of circuit breakers.  They are most certainly NOT there to protect the anchor washdown pump, or t he thruster motor, or any other piece of equipment.  There is nothing a circuit breaker can do to "protect" the pump motor, or other device:  If it shorts, it has already died! If, in normal operation, it draws too much current for the wiring to support, then the wiring is undersized.

 

Circuit breakers are there to protect the WIRING and prevent the catastrophic results that can occur if a short occurs ANYWHERE that overloads the wiring.  This can occur from many faults, none of them likely, but all with disastrous consequences.  Wire chafe is probably the most common cause on boats, but others happen. I'd guess loose connections are a close second.  

 

Having a breaker at the far end of the wire, away from the battery, completely misses the point of why it is there in the first place. In my opinion, if you have a circuit breaker at the point of use of the power, you might as well just replace it with a switch--it is essentially useless. 

 

When I ran a service department for a large charter company, one of the annual safety meetings I ran for for my staff was to dead short circuit a 12 volt battery through 14 gauge wire.  Watching solid copper wire burst into flame and literally explode was a sobering experience for people who could easily get into the habit of thinking "its only 12 volts." It really made the point about why fuses and circuit breakers were essential.

 

There is nothing at all wrong with distributed CONTROL of an electrical system. That is just fancy electronics.  But... you can not "distribute" protection of the wiring. I have never heard a  good reason to run long lengths of un-fused wiring on a boat--or anywhere else.  It is just dangerous--and for absolutely no benefit.  Dangerous overloads rarely occur because of equipment problems.  They occur because of wiring faults.  Do they happen often?  No, not at all. But when they do, it is truly terrifying.  

 

C-zone, Ocotplex, etc, a re NOT wiring protection systems.  They are not "circuit breakers".  They are CONTROL systems.  Very different animals.

 

I have seen several boat fires at much closer quarters than I ever hope to repeat, and most of them were electrical in origin, all from things that shouldn't have happened--but did.  

 

Bill Kinney

Sm160, Harmonie

Back Creek, Annapolis, MD

 

 



---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

I'd always thought Amel was ahead of the curve with its Distributed Electrical System. That seems to be the direction the industry is going, now with solid state circuit breakers controlled through the NMEA2000 data network. Eliminates the large industrial style circuit breaker panels of yore and adds great flexibility. Check out CAPI2, C-Zone, Octoplex, etc. Seems Amel is going backwards technologically if they're centralizing. Let's see, your anchor washdown pump shorts and rather than it tripping an adjacent breaker it's got to overload a 15 meter long cable run back to the central circuit breaker panel. To say nothing of the excess wiring to give all equipment a "home run". Must be missing something in this discussion.

Cheers, Craig SN68 Sangaris

< br>

 


points to check before buying 2003 Amel SM 2000

Steven Nieman
 

Hi everyone,

Any weak points to check before purchasing an Amel  SM 2000 build in 2003???


Kindly regards,

Steven



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Distributed vs. Conventional Electrical Systems

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Bill K and Pat,

I would never say that "I think Bill K's point is that he thinks Capt. Henri's original engineering was poorly done and left an unsafe condition with unprotected long wire runs."

I would not say anything like that for numerous reasons. I think you know why.

Since Henri Amel is not here to defend his decisions made many years ago, I will remind everyone that at the time these decisions were made they very likely conformed 100% with the regulations in force in Europe and conformed with the thinking at the time. Let's compare Henri Amel's engineering decisions to General Motors at the same time:
- Disintegrating plastic bumper parts
- 4-6-8 engines with 100% failure
- Gasoline to Diesel conversions with almost 100% failure
- Reduction of plasticides in paint which caused paint to fade in 6 years
- Plastic transmission parts which caused a new industry to emerge to repair transmissions
- Fiero & Corvair (one name says it all)
- Foam headliners which fell in 5 years
- Chrome coated plastic which lasted about 2 years
on, and on, and on.

Can one improve on yesterday's technology? Certainly! 
Can one not understand decisions made yesterday? Absolutely!
Should one of us criticize Henri Amel? Never!

Anyway, this is my sermon for the month. I hope that you enjoyed it. 

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970





On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 8:39 AM, sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Pat, 

Yes, that's why I thought Alan's adding the Blue Sea fuses at the batteries sounded wise. Btw, in my house the distribution panel is smack in the middle of the house which reduces the total amount of wiring. It does, of course, have a main service breaker at the external drop wire, analogous to Alan's Blue Sea fuse. Then there are separate fused disconnects adjacent to heavy loads like the A/C and hot water heater in addition to breakers for those at the distribution panel.

I think Bill K's point is that he thinks Capt. Henri's original engineering was poorly done and left an unsafe condition with unprotected long wire runs. Alan seems to have a good solution.  And, while the new Amel centralized panel would meet Bill K's criterion, it is (likely) not fused close to the batteries, leaving the same risk of chafe and shorting in either the wires going to the panel or the wires going to the engine & generator starting motors.

I do suspect that the industry will continue to modernize with Distributed electric systems and have not overlooked the risk of shorting in the long runs, although I haven't looked into it enough to know exactly how it is addressed.

Craig SN68


---In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

Craig , Your original post seemed to support locating breakers far from the power source , however this post seems to acknowledge the protection offered by locating breakers as close as possible to the battery bank. You even pointed to boat that burned up cables as a result of a short . Now I must be missing something . When I build a house , I have 220v/ 200 amps coming through a  wall , I locate the distribution panel as close as possible to where it comes thru the wall. The ele ctric immediately goes thru appropriate size breakers and passes thru appropriate sized wiring on to  outlets ,  pumps ,etc . In the event of a short there is little chance of the wire being overloaded . You do not use 14g wire with a 20 amp breaker ! In a house you would not run a 220v line to a laundry room and place the breaker on the wall behind the dryer. I have never understood the difference between protecting a boat vs. a house . But , maybe I am missing something, it would not be the first time.
Pat
SM #123


-----Original Message-----
From: sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Oct 16, 2017 9:34 am
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Distributed vs. Conventional Electrical Systems

 
Alan,
That seems an excellent idea. I remember that in 2001 I totally redid SM Miss Lindy's wiring (don't recall the hull number) after it completely burned out for the third time. All the heavy cables in the engine room, from battery to starter to generator to main house feeds had melted solid. As I finished up I still had low volts from the engine to the battery.  Traced it to the starting cables having chaffed about 12 inches down inside the PVC pipe from the battery to the engine (that was supposedly there to prevent chafe). Your solution would have prevented much heartache and expense. 
Will be interested in Bill K's bounce. Perhaps the modern distributed systems do incorporate that.
Craig SN#68

---In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

well said Bill,
BUT that's exactly what we have on our SMs....th e anchor windlass, the genoa furler etc have the breakers at the "other end" of the cables that run from the house bank...and...on the standard setup, there are NO FUSES near the battery connections. 
I've put large Blue Sea fuses in the battery compartment on each of my 3 banks of 4 6V series batteries to try to address these issues.
What have you done ?
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437

Craig,

I think you (and Amel in the "old days") are simply missing the point of circuit breakers.  They are most certainly NOT there to protect the anchor washdown pump, or t he thruster motor, or any other piece of equipment.  There is nothing a circuit breaker can do to "protect" the pump motor, or other device:  If it shorts, it has already died! If, in normal operation, it draws too much current for the wiring to support, then the wiring is undersized.

Circuit breakers are there to protect the WIRING and prevent the catastrophic results that can occur if a short occurs ANYWHERE that overloads the wiring.  This can occur from many faults, none of them likely, but all with disastrous consequences.  Wire chafe is probably the most common cause on boats, but others happen. I'd guess loose connections are a close second.  

Having a breaker at the far end of the wire, away from the battery, completely misses the point of why it is there in the first place. In my opinion, if you have a circuit breaker at the point of use of the power, you might as well just replace it with a switch--it is essentially useless. 

When I ran a service department for a large charter company, one of the annual safety meetings I ran for for my staff was to dead short circuit a 12 volt battery through 14 gauge wire.  Watching solid copper wire burst into flame and literally explode was a sobering experience for people who could easily get into the habit of thinking "its only 12 volts." It really made the point about why fuses and circuit breakers were essential.

There is nothing at all wrong with distributed CONTROL of an electrical system. That is just fancy electronics.  But... you can not "distribute" protection of the wiring. I have never heard a  good reason to run long lengths of un-fused wiring on a boat--or anywhere else.  It is just dangerous--and for absolutely no benefit.  Dangerous overloads rarely occur because of equipment problems.  They occur because of wiring faults.  Do they happen often?  No, not at all. But when they do, it is truly terrifying.  

C-zone, Ocotplex, etc, a re NOT wiring protection systems.  They are not "circuit breakers".  They are CONTROL systems.  Very different animals.

I have seen several boat fires at much closer quarters than I ever hope to repeat, and most of them were electrical in origin, all from things that shouldn't have happened--but did.  

Bill Kinney
Sm160, Harmonie
Back Creek, Annapolis, MD




---In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

I'd always thought Amel was ahead of the curve with its Distributed Electrical System. That seems to be the direction the industry is going, now with solid state circuit breakers controlled through the NMEA2000 data network. Eliminates the large industrial style circuit breaker panels of yore and adds great flexibility. Check out CAPI2, C-Zone, Octoplex, etc. Seems Amel is going backwards technologically if they're centralizing. Let's see, your anchor washdown pump shorts and rather than it tripping an adjacent breaker it's got to overload a 15 meter long cable run back to the central circuit breaker panel. To say nothing of the excess wiring to give all equipment a "home run". Must be missing something in this discussion.
Cheers, Craig SN68 Sangaris
< br>



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Distributed vs. Conventional Electrical Systems

Craig Briggs
 

PS.  Have done some more googling on the subject and it appears the Distributed systems have each of the feeder circuits fused at a bus near the batteries, in addition to the data-controlled breakers near the loads. Just as Alan has done with Amel's "old-fashioned" Distributed system. 
fwiw, Craig


---In amelyachtowners@..., <sangaris@...> wrote :

Hi Pat, 
Yes, that's why I thought Alan's adding the Blue Sea fuses at the batteries sounded wise. Btw, in my house the distribution panel is smack in the middle of the house which reduces the total amount of wiring. It does, of course, have a main service breaker at the external drop wire, analogous to Alan's Blue Sea fuse. Then there are separate fused disconnects adjacent to heavy loads like the A/C and hot water heater in addition to breakers for those at the distribution panel.

I think Bill K's point is that he thinks Capt. Henri's original engineering was poorly done and left an unsafe condition with unprotected long wire runs. Alan seems to have a good solution.  And, while the new Amel centralized panel would meet Bill K's criterion, it is (likely) not fused close to the batteries, leaving the same risk of chafe and shorting in either the wires going to the panel or the wires going to the engine & generator starting motors.

I do suspect that the industry will continue to modernize with Distributed electric systems and have not overlooked the risk of shorting in the long runs, although I haven't looked into it enough to know exactly how it is addressed.

Craig SN68


---In amelyachtowners@..., <sailw32@...> wrote :

Craig , Your original post seemed to support locating breakers far from the power source , however this post seems to acknowledge the protection offered by locating breakers as close as possible to the battery bank. You even pointed to boat that burned up cables as a result of a short . Now I must be missing something . When I build a house , I have 220v/ 200 amps coming through a  wall , I locate the distribution panel as close as possible to where it comes thru the wall. The electric immediately goes thru appropriate size breakers and passes thru appropriate sized wiring on to  outlets ,  pumps ,etc . In the event of a short there is little chance of the wire being overloaded . You do not use 14g wire with a 20 amp breaker ! In a house you would not run a 220v line to a laundry room and place the breaker on the wall behind the dryer. I have never understood the difference between protecting a boat vs. a house . But , maybe I am missing something, it would not be the first time.
Pat
SM #123


-----Original Message-----
From: sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Mon, Oct 16, 2017 9:34 am
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Distributed vs. Conventional Electrical Systems

 
Alan,
That seems an excellent idea. I remember that in 2001 I totally redid SM Miss Lindy's wiring (don't recall the hull number) after it completely burned out for the third time. All the heavy cables in the engine room, from battery to starter to generator to main house feeds had melted solid. As I finished up I still had low volts from the engine to the battery.  Traced it to the starting cables having chaffed about 12 inches down inside the PVC pipe from the battery to the engine (that was supposedly there to prevent chafe). Your solution would have prevented much heartache and expense. 
Will be interested in Bill K's bounce. Perhaps the modern distributed systems do incorporate that.
Craig SN#68


---In amelyachtowners@..., <divanz620@...> wrote :

well said Bill,
BUT that's exactly what we have on our SMs....th e anchor windlass, the genoa furler etc have the breakers at the "other end" of the cables that run from the house bank...and...on the standard setup, there are NO FUSES near the battery connections. 
I've put large Blue Sea fuses in the battery compartment on each of my 3 banks of 4 6V series batteries to try to address these issues.
What have you done ?
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437

Craig,

I think you (and Amel in the "old days") are simply missing the point of circuit breakers.  They are most certainly NOT there to protect the anchor washdown pump, or the thruster motor, or any other piece of equipment.  There is nothing a circuit breaker can do to "protect" the pump motor, or other device:  If it shorts, it has already died! If, in normal operation, it draws too much current for the wiring to support, then the wiring is undersized.

Circuit breakers are there to protect the WIRING and prevent the catastrophic results that can occur if a short occurs ANYWHERE that overloads the wiring.  This can occur from many faults, none of them likely, but all with disastrous consequences.  Wire chafe is probably the most common cause on boats, but others happen. I'd guess loose connections are a close second.  

Having a breaker at the far end of the wire, away from the battery, completely misses the point of why it is there in the first place. In my opinion, if you have a circuit breaker at the point of use of the power, you might as well just replace it with a switch--it is essentially useless. 

When I ran a service department for a large charter company, one of the annual safety meetings I ran for for my staff was to dead short circuit a 12 volt battery through 14 gauge wire.  Watching solid copper wire burst into flame and literally explode was a sobering experience for people who could easily get into the habit of thinking "its only 12 volts." It really made the point about why fuses and circuit breakers were essential.

There is nothing at all wrong with distributed CONTROL of an electrical system. That is just fancy electronics.  But... you can not "distribute" protection of the wiring. I have never heard a  good reason to run long lengths of un-fused wiring on a boat--or anywhere else.  It is just dangerous--and for absolutely no benefit.  Dangerous overloads rarely occur because of equipment problems.  They occur because of wiring faults.  Do they happen often?  No, not at all. But when they do, it is truly terrifying.  

C-zone, Ocotplex, etc, are NOT wiring protection systems.  They are not "circuit breakers".  They are CONTROL systems.  Very different animals.

I have seen several boat fires at much closer quarters than I ever hope to repeat, and most of them were electrical in origin, all from things that shouldn't have happened--but did.  

Bill Kinney
Sm160, Harmonie
Back Creek, Annapolis, MD




---In amelyachtowners@..., <sangaris@...> wrote :

I'd always thought Amel was ahead of the curve with its Distributed Electrical System. That seems to be the direction the industry is going, now with solid state circuit breakers controlled through the NMEA2000 data network. Eliminates the large industrial style circuit breaker panels of yore and adds great flexibility. Check out CAPI2, C-Zone, Octoplex, etc. Seems Amel is going backwards technologically if they're centralizing. Let's see, your anchor washdown pump shorts and rather than it tripping an adjacent breaker it's got to overload a 15 meter long cable run back to the central circuit breaker panel. To say nothing of the excess wiring to give all equipment a "home run". Must be missing something in this discussion.
Cheers, Craig SN68 Sangaris
< br>


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Main furler motor issue

Mohammad Shirloo
 

Hi Thomas;
 
I did not attempt to open our furler motor due to the poor condition observed and the amount of water that came out of it. We sent it to a mechanic familiar with Amels and the furler motor. They did open it and after review said that the motor was basically not repairable. So, I cannot be of much help in how to open up the unit. But as with everything else, you start from the obvious and move forward and try to figure out as you go.
 
One suggestion may be to request any diagrams or maintenance information Amel may have. If they don't, they can tell you the manufacturer's information and most likely more information can be found online or directly from the manufacturer.
 
I would definitely be interested in your progress and any pictures that may help us and other 54 owners. The beginning of the next season is going to be the 2 year mark for our furler as well and I will be changing the top seal.
 
Respectfully;
 
Mohammad & Aty
B&B Kokomo
Amel 54 #099
 


From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2017 11:46 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Main furler motor issue

 

Hi Mohammad,

Thanks for your answer

I realise, searching for pictures online, that the 54 has a different electrical furling system than Super Maramu. It is vertical. I guess that reduces the expertise on those systems. Hopefully we can contribute to building it without too much damage.

Any tips still very much appreciated

Fair winds to all

Thanks
Thomas 
Garulfo
Amel 54 #122
Tangier, Morocco 


On Tue, 17 Oct 2017 at 03:10, 'Mohammad Shirloo' mshirloo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Thomas;

The seal is between the shaft and the end cap.  You can see it in your picture. This seal is constantly exposed to the sun and the elements. When the rubber dries out, water gets in. The 54s have similar issues with the top seal on the Bamar furlers.

Has any one used a good rubber conditioner/protector that extends its life? 


Respectfully;


Mohammad Shirloo
323-633-2222 Cell
310-454-3148 Fax


On Oct 16, 2017, at 11:24 AM, SV Garulfo svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 



Ok, 

So the gearbox is fine, we can operate the manual furling without problems. 

We removed the unit and disconnected it as per Mohammad's instructions. 

We managed to remove (pop out) the bottom black end cap (wire end). It was not easy to say the least. For the top end, we are still very much struggling with it. We must be doing it the wrong way. We found those black end caps to be sealed with what looks like white sikaflex, between the white painted aluminium case and a groove in the black end cap. 
The inside of the housing was damp, with a few drops od salt water running out and a fair amount of salt cristals. 
The "wire end" of the motor stack has the 'brake', an electromagnetic friction disk that I suppose is there to block the rotation while not energised (correct me if I'm wrong). It was a bit rusty. 

There is a gear on that end of the shaft that connects to the brake element. That gear would not rotate freely, until I shaked it a bit and it freed up. Maybe a clue as to what's going on inside. 

Next is the motor itself and the wires going into it that I guess would be connected to the brushes. 

But to access the full motor block, i think we need to remove the top back end cap too and free the motor from the housing. The top black end cap is still resisting our efforts. I don't suppose there is another solution to access the brushes or to remove that end cap?

Mohammad, 
What is the seal that Amel recommend changing every couple of years? Is it between the end cap and the aluminium housing? Or the  bit between the shaft and the black end cap? On our motor it's very rusty (see picture in previous post) and I wouldn't be surprised it's the source of our damp problem. Does Amel provide you with an how-to to change it? I would be interested in any tips at this point. 

Thanks again,

Thomas
Garulfo 
Amel 54 #122
Tangier, Morocco 


On Mon, 16 Oct 2017 at 11:17, Garulfo sv <svgarulfo@...> wrote:
Peter,
"Unscrew conventional way", You mean like a jar (black against white) or pop it out once the screws on the white covers are off?
Thanks



On 16 Oct 2017, at 10:39, Peter Forbes ppsforbes@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

The black end caps unscrew the conventional way.


Peter
Peter Forbes
Carango
Amel. 54#035

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On 16 Oct 2017, at 10:26, Garulfo sv svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hello
Thanks all for your input. 
We are onto removing the furler motor. 
Before we disconnect the electrics, any tips on how to remove the black end caps. 

Thank you
 
Fair winds

Thomas 
Garulfo 
Amel 54 #122
Tangier, Morocco 

On 15 Oct 2017, at 09:36, simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Thomas, I agree with those who suggest checking the brushes. In my experience they are this number one culprit. You have checked the breakers. I have found if I try to furl under too much load the breaker in the port forward locker in the forward cabin pops.
The brushes can stick because of accumulated carbon dust from wear. Remove them and give the motor a blow out with an air gun if available. The contact surface can get  very glossy and when they are out I give that area a quick rub with sand paper.
Regards
Danny SM 299 Ocean Pearl

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On 15 Oct 2017 20:42, "SV Garulfo svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi all,

The main furler motor stopped working yesterday. We wanted to unfurl the dail and it wouldn't go. The outhaul is ok. 
Battery levels are fine (and the engine alternator was still running and producing amps at the time).
The command produces a click sound in what I think is the solenoid. 
The circuit breaker marked "mast" in the forward cabin above the centre bookshelf /wardrobe is on (as are the other breakers there for "boom", etc).

Any further advice before I tinker any further? I would check the motor itself but having never done it, I'd rather be cautious with little local help at hand. 

Thanks 

Fair winds

Thomas 
Garulfo 
Amel 54 #122
Tangier, Morocco