Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Distributed vs. Conventional Electrical Systems

greatketch@...

What calculation did you do to convert 7000 Watts to 510 Amps?

P= V * A
510 Amps at 24 Volts = 12,000 Watts??

For what it is worth, the name plate on the motor on my older Super Maramu (they might not all be the same) is 6.3kW

To get a good number, for current draw you can't assume 24 Volts.  When you are drawing that much power, the voltage will drop, a lot.

For really high power draws like this, it is not unreasonable to assume as low as 18 Volts.

6,300 Watts/18 Volts = 350 Amps

If we do go with a 7000 watt rating, that's still "only" 388 amps.  A perfectly reasonable number to protect with a 500 Amp fuse.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Back Creek, Annapolis, MD

---In amelyachtowners@..., <yahoogroups@...> wrote :

James,

From the Super Maramu 2000 Owners Manual...it states 7,000 watts or 510 amps

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Commander Emeritus

http://www.amelschool. com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970

On Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 11:53 AM, James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

Bill,

Is it correct that the bow thruster on the Super Maramu is 500 Amps?  And that is at 24 volts?  The thruster on my Maramu has a 100 amp breaker installed by Amel ( it has never tripped so I assume the normal draw is something below 100 amps)  and the voltage is only 12 volts so if my math is right it is about 1.5 hp which is good up to about 15 knots or so.   500 Amps at 24 volts would be about 16 hp?  Can you tell me the size of the original Amel breaker that is installed on the Super Maramu?

Thanks for all of your past help with my Amel.  And to update you on the bow thruster leakage.  After replacing the seals as instructed, the thruster did not leak at all this season.    The thruster has also been 100% reliable thus far and is a tremendous asset IMO.

I will con sider adding some inline fuses to my boat as well just in case of a major short.

Best,

James Alton
SV Sueno,  Maramu #220

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow locker bottoms...

greatketch@...

James,

The Super Maramu deck locker gaskets are really cleverly done as made at the factory.  They used a hollow "D" gasket with solid rubber inserts at the corners of the hatch to keep from over compressing the gasket and shortening its life.

Like so many things on an Amel, it is a simple, elegant solution I hadn't seen before.

Bill

---In amelyachtowners@..., <lokiyawl2@...> wrote :

Bill,

Sueno only has 50 meters of 3/8” chain plus 40 meters of 7/8” Nylon spliced to the chain.  The 50 meters does not make a very large pile.  I have two of the approx. 30”  x 3/4” thick  closed cell foam play matts that I set on the deck just aft of the sub. bow locker on to which I pile the chain.  I don’t lay the chain out for rinsing because of the possible deck damage you are referring to and I don’t think that it is needed to get the salt off.  There are lots of holes in the piled up chain to spray water into and just a couple minutes  of rinsing seems to be all that is needed.  The chain seems to dry out quickly in the sun in the Med., the line is a lot slower taking a day.  I don’t bother to do this while I am cruising continuously but when I stop at a marina with water available this is one of the first tasks I attend to on the boat after getting things secured.  The chain locker also gets a quick rinse and a sponging of the bottom.  My drain is slightly above the bottom of the locker for some reason,  I was thinking of changing this so that all of the water would drain out of the locker without any bailing.  Is there an Amel reason for not having the drain at the very bottom of the locker?   This is the first boat that I have owned on which the “Things to change” list has gotten shorter the longer I have owned the boat and I am being careful not to alter anything unless I am really sure it should be done.

Thank you for telling me about the Super Maramus not having drains for the deck lockers,  I am surprised that I missed that point and am glad to be corrected.  In case it helps, I think that the drain arrangement on the Maramu was very intelligently done by Amel.  There are two drains of course, Port and Stb. with cowls over the holes facing aft.  But the really interesting part of the design is that a trough was created between the drains Port and Stb. so that any water that comes in one drain tends to stay in the trough and  run right across and out the other side.  I have never seen anything in the locker before other than some minor dampness in the areas of the drains so I think that the locker bottoms might also slope to the drains.  I have also not beat to windward in more than 6’ seas nor seen more than 43 knots on this boat so maybe in severe conditions the drains are more of a problem. I am considering a minor change in the drains.  It should be possible to create a baffle that would prevent the entry of any water into the lockers from the drains.  It would work a little like the Aqua lift muffler to block water flowing in and allow any water that did enter to flow out of the drain when the bow lifted.  The twist turns on my bow lockers don’t really apply any compression to the gasket.  Are the bow locker gaskets compressed on the Super Maramu?

Keeping spaces, stuff salt free and dry on a cruising boat is a real challenge,  I completely agree with you.

Best,

James

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] SM Furling Motor Brush Dimensions

Hajo Hille

I've forgotten to mention the type code. It is "AB 35"

Kind regards

Am 18.10.2017 um 20:20 schrieb Amw amw08@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

Hi Ian,
The brushes I bought have the dimension of 16x6x22 mm.
I bought it at Josef Mack GmbH & Co.Kg , Gießener Straße 49, 3505 Grünberg, Germany
Tel. 0049 6401 2106 09-0, Fax 0049 6401 4910 or info at mack-kohlebuersten.de.

Hope this helps

Hajo
Serafine SM 150
Carloforte, San Pietro

Am 18.10.2017 um 18:43 schrieb Ian Shepherd sv_freespirit@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

Hi,

can anyone please tell me the LENGTH of the carbon brushes for the Leroy
furling motor when they are new? I am trying to source spare brushes
locally or on eBay but do not have a new brush left to measure.
Obviously I can measure the side dimensions from my worn ones. If
possible can you please state the length in millimeters.

Incidentally, when the motor starts to play up I found that swapping the
top and bottom brushes over the best way of restoring normal operations.
Cleaning the brush surfaces and the commutator only worked for one or
two cycles whereas swapping the brushes seemed to fix the problem more
permanently.

With thanks

Ian Shepherd SM2K 414 Crusader Larnaca Cyprus

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] The Times They are a Changin' - Message from Bill Rouse

Alexandre Uster von Baar

Dear Bill,

It is with sadness but understanding that I see you retract yourself of the Forum…
This was my fear after I heard you sold BeBe and was glad you kept active.
I am glad the Amel School is working well and hope it continue to grow.
I can’t thank you enough for all the years of wonderful support.

Sincerely, Alexandre

--------------------------------------------

On Wed, 10/18/17, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@svbebe.com [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] The Times They are a Changin' - Message from Bill Rouse
To: "amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, October 18, 2017, 1:12 PM

All
Amel Owners and Friends,

I
have participated in this forum and with this wonderful
group of people for 12
years. It has been fulfilling, educational, and occasionally
entertaining.

As
many of you know, we sold BeBe to great new owners, Dan
& Lori Carlson,
earlier this year. Many of you asked me to continue as part
of this group and I
have tried to participate when I feel as though I have
something to contribute.
You may have noticed a recent lack of
participation.

And,
as some of you know, several months ago I started Amel
School
which gives me the opportunity to train
owners that are new-to-Amel. I also help those who want to
the best Amel for their budget (Pre-Purchase
Consulting).
I had my 400 page Amel
Book
printed and bound
for my Amel School clients and I provide 24/7
Support to
them. I am
proud to say that in a few months I have clients throughout
the world and just
added my 20th client. Most are members of this
Group.

This
brings me to what I need to post today. I am going to almost
totally
remove myself from the Amel Yacht Owners Forum. I need to do
this to be able to
serve my clients properly. I do hope that you understand
this. In the past few
months I have been asked by a number of you about my Amel
Book and other Amel
School related services. I have a parting offer for members
of this Yahoo Amel
Yacht Owners Group who have owned their Amels for 2 years or
longer. If you are
website: Amel
Yacht Owners Group.

Hopefully
we will meet (again) somewhere on the water while I am with
one of my Amel
School Clients. Best,

CW Bill Rouse

Commander Emeritus

Amel
School  http://www.amelschool.com

720 Winnie St

Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970

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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] SM Furling Motor Brush Dimensions

Hajo Hille

Hi Ian,
The brushes I bought have the dimension of 16x6x22 mm.
I bought it at Josef Mack GmbH & Co.Kg , Gießener Straße 49, 3505 Grünberg, Germany
Tel. 0049 6401 2106 09-0, Fax 0049 6401 4910 or info at mack-kohlebuersten.de.

Hope this helps

Hajo
Serafine SM 150
Carloforte, San Pietro

Am 18.10.2017 um 18:43 schrieb Ian Shepherd sv_freespirit@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

Hi,

can anyone please tell me the LENGTH of the carbon brushes for the Leroy
furling motor when they are new? I am trying to source spare brushes
locally or on eBay but do not have a new brush left to measure.
Obviously I can measure the side dimensions from my worn ones. If
possible can you please state the length in millimeters.

Incidentally, when the motor starts to play up I found that swapping the
top and bottom brushes over the best way of restoring normal operations.
Cleaning the brush surfaces and the commutator only worked for one or
two cycles whereas swapping the brushes seemed to fix the problem more
permanently.

With thanks

Ian Shepherd SM2K 414 Crusader Larnaca Cyprus

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Distributed vs. Conventional Electrical Systems

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>

James,

From the Super Maramu 2000 Owners Manual...it states 7,000 watts or 510 amps

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Commander Emeritus

http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970

On Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 11:53 AM, James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

Bill,

Is it correct that the bow thruster on the Super Maramu is 500 Amps?  And that is at 24 volts?  The thruster on my Maramu has a 100 amp breaker installed by Amel ( it has never tripped so I assume the normal draw is something below 100 amps)  and the voltage is only 12 volts so if my math is right it is about 1.5 hp which is good up to about 15 knots or so.   500 Amps at 24 volts would be about 16 hp?  Can you tell me the size of the original Amel breaker that is installed on the Super Maramu?

Thanks for all of your past help with my Amel.  And to update you on the bow thruster leakage.  After replacing the seals as instructed, the thruster did not leak at all this season.    The thruster has also been 100% reliable thus far and is a tremendous asset IMO.

I will con sider adding some inline fuses to my boat as well just in case of a major short.

Best,

James Alton
SV Sueno,  Maramu #220
On Oct 18, 2017, at 12:21 PM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Craig,

I agree with Alan's point and before we sold BeBe I had decided to place 6 of the Blue Sea 5191 MRBF Terminal Fuse Blocks with a removeable Blue Sea BS5185 (150A) amp fuse on each of the 6 positive battery pairs on the positive post  of the battery and connect the the positive lead for each pair to the newly installed terminal block fuse. My assumption was that the 500 amp bow thrust er would not burn individual 150 amp fuses...I may be wrong on this. The fuses are available from 50 amps to 300 amps. Since the fuses are replaceable, I was going to buy extras.

Of course, I have not tested this, so I cannot say that it works and/or whether it is the best solution.

The Times They are a Changin' - Message from Bill Rouse

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>

All Amel Owners and Friends,

I have participated in this forum and with this wonderful group of people for 12 years. It has been fulfilling, educational, and occasionally entertaining.

As many of you know, we sold BeBe to great new owners, Dan & Lori Carlson, earlier this year. Many of you asked me to continue as part of this group and I have tried to participate when I feel as though I have something to contribute. You may have noticed a recent lack of participation.

And, as some of you know, several months ago I started Amel School which gives me the opportunity to train owners that are new-to-Amel. I also help those who want to buy an Amel to choose the best Amel for their budget (Pre-Purchase Consulting). I had my 400 page Amel Book printed and bound for my Amel School clients and I provide 24/7 Support to them. I am proud to say that in a few months I have clients throughout the world and just added my 20th client. Most are members of this Group.

This brings me to what I need to post today. I am going to almost totally remove myself from the Amel Yacht Owners Forum. I need to do this to be able to serve my clients properly. I do hope that you understand this. In the past few months I have been asked by a number of you about my Amel Book and other Amel School related services. I have a parting offer for members of this Yahoo Amel Yacht Owners Group who have owned their Amels for 2 years or longer. If you are interested please follow this link to a hidden page on my website: Amel Yacht Owners Group.

Hopefully we will meet (again) somewhere on the water while I am with one of my Amel School Clients.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Distributed vs. Conventional Electrical Systems

I believe you're supposed to fuse the battery bank as a whole, and not individual batteries.  That means one fuse for the whole bank.  The reason for this is that some subset of the fuses could blow (one could be slightly more sensitive, or one battery might supply slightly more current under load) and you wouldn't know.  You would hope that a cascading failure causes them all to blow, but it won't necessarily.  And this is bad because now you have one or more batteries isolated from the rest of the bank, yet you still have power, so you're probably not going to go look under the bunk to check the fuses.  With your battery bank now smaller than you think it is, you're likely to discharge it deeper than you intend, and the isolated battery won't be getting charged... quickly all the batteries will be ruined.

I'm a big fan of those battery terminal fuses Bill mentioned.  I installed them on my old boat after reading this excellent article (that whole site is fantastic).  I'm going to do something similar on my SM as soon as I figure out what the current rating should be; it might be possible to get away with a 300A fuse since they don't blow instantly.  As long as we're not leaning on the thruster or windlass switch for too long, I think it would be OK, but I'd love more info about the actual current draw of these systems.

Thanks,
Ryan
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA

On Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 12:53 PM, James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

Bill,

Is it correct that the bow thruster on the Super Maramu is 500 Amps?  And that is at 24 volts?  The thruster on my Maramu has a 100 amp breaker installed by Amel ( it has never tripped so I assume the normal draw is something below 100 amps)  and the voltage is only 12 volts so if my math is right it is about 1.5 hp which is good up to about 15 knots or so.   500 Amps at 24 volts would be about 16 hp?  Can you tell me the size of the original Amel breaker that is installed on the Super Maramu?

Thanks for all of your past help with my Amel.  And to update you on the bow thruster leakage.  After replacing the seals as instructed, the thruster did not leak at all this season.    The thruster has also been 100% reliable thus far and is a tremendous asset IMO.

I will consider adding some inline fuses to my boat as well just in case of a major short.

Best,

James Alton
SV Sueno,  Maramu #220
On Oct 18, 2017, at 12:21 PM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Craig,

I agree with Alan's point and before we sold BeBe I had decided to place 6 of the Blue Sea 5191 MRBF Terminal Fuse Blocks with a removeable Blue Sea BS5185 (150A) amp fuse on each of the 6 positive battery pairs on the positive post  of the battery and connect the the positive lead for each pair to the newly installed terminal block fuse. My assumption was that the 500 amp bow thruster would not burn individual 150 amp fuses...I may be wrong on this. The fuses are available from 50 amps to 300 amps. Since the fuses are replaceable, I was going to buy extras.

Of course, I have not tested this, so I cannot say that it works and/or whether it is the best solution.

Re: Companionway key

greatketch@...

I think that lockset is the ONLY part an Amel shares with a Beneteau...

Anybody can CUT the key, the problem as most people have found is the key blank itself is rather rare--at least in the US.

After struggling to find one in Florida, Karen carried one while visiting her sister in Texas, walked into an old-fashioned locksmith shop. The guy took one look and said, "A Y2!  You don't see those too often."  He reached up to his board and pulled one down.  Presto!  We had the spare key we had been looking for.

I don't know what the difference between a "Yale Y2" and a "Y1-E ACE" is, if any...

We ordered a stash of 10 of the same blank from Amazon. They work in our lock.  If anybody else gets stuck, let us know and we'll drop one in the mail to you.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Back Creek, Annapolis, MD
Heading South in a few days.

---In amelyachtowners@..., <smlocalola@...> wrote :

For all our fellow SMers in South Florida area, we've looked everywhere and finally found a master key maker that duplicated our companionway key. ACE hardware off 17th St. In the Harbor Shoppes plaza. Ask for Bob and use key style Y1E-ACE. If anyone that is not in the area needs assistance, let me know and I'll be glad to help.

Ian Townsend

Loca Lola II

SM153

New River, Fort Lauderdale, Florida

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Distributed vs. Conventional Electrical Systems

James Alton

Bill,

Is it correct that the bow thruster on the Super Maramu is 500 Amps?  And that is at 24 volts?  The thruster on my Maramu has a 100 amp breaker installed by Amel ( it has never tripped so I assume the normal draw is something below 100 amps)  and the voltage is only 12 volts so if my math is right it is about 1.5 hp which is good up to about 15 knots or so.   500 Amps at 24 volts would be about 16 hp?  Can you tell me the size of the original Amel breaker that is installed on the Super Maramu?

Thanks for all of your past help with my Amel.  And to update you on the bow thruster leakage.  After replacing the seals as instructed, the thruster did not leak at all this season.    The thruster has also been 100% reliable thus far and is a tremendous asset IMO.

I will consider adding some inline fuses to my boat as well just in case of a major short.

Best,

James Alton
SV Sueno,  Maramu #220

On Oct 18, 2017, at 12:21 PM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Craig,

I agree with Alan's point and before we sold BeBe I had decided to place 6 of the Blue Sea 5191 MRBF Terminal Fuse Blocks with a removeable Blue Sea BS5185 (150A) amp fuse on each of the 6 positive battery pairs on the positive post  of the battery and connect the the positive lead for each pair to the newly installed terminal block fuse. My assumption was that the 500 amp bow thruster would not burn individual 150 amp fuses...I may be wrong on this. The fuses are available from 50 amps to 300 amps. Since the fuses are replaceable, I was going to buy extras.

Of course, I have not tested this, so I cannot say that it works and/or whether it is the best solution.

SM Furling Motor Brush Dimensions

Ian Shepherd

Hi,

can anyone please tell me the LENGTH of the carbon brushes for the Leroy furling motor when they are new? I am trying to source spare brushes locally or on eBay but do not have a new brush left to measure. Obviously I can measure the side dimensions from my worn ones. If possible can you please state the length in millimeters.

Incidentally, when the motor starts to play up I found that swapping the top and bottom brushes over the best way of restoring normal operations. Cleaning the brush surfaces and the commutator only worked for one or two cycles whereas swapping the brushes seemed to fix the problem more permanently.

With thanks

Ian Shepherd SM2K 414 Crusader Larnaca Cyprus

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow locker bottoms...

James Alton

Bill,

Sueno only has 50 meters of 3/8” chain plus 40 meters of 7/8” Nylon spliced to the chain.  The 50 meters does not make a very large pile.  I have two of the approx. 30”  x 3/4” thick  closed cell foam play matts that I set on the deck just aft of the sub. bow locker on to which I pile the chain.  I don’t lay the chain out for rinsing because of the possible deck damage you are referring to and I don’t think that it is needed to get the salt off.  There are lots of holes in the piled up chain to spray water into and just a couple minutes  of rinsing seems to be all that is needed.  The chain seems to dry out quickly in the sun in the Med., the line is a lot slower taking a day.  I don’t bother to do this while I am cruising continuously but when I stop at a marina with water available this is one of the first tasks I attend to on the boat after getting things secured.  The chain locker also gets a quick rinse and a sponging of the bottom.  My drain is slightly above the bottom of the locker for some reason,  I was thinking of changing this so that all of the water would drain out of the locker without any bailing.  Is there an Amel reason for not having the drain at the very bottom of the locker?   This is the first boat that I have owned on which the “Things to change” list has gotten shorter the longer I have owned the boat and I am being careful not to alter anything unless I am really sure it should be done.

Thank you for telling me about the Super Maramus not having drains for the deck lockers,  I am surprised that I missed that point and am glad to be corrected.  In case it helps, I think that the drain arrangement on the Maramu was very intelligently done by Amel.  There are two drains of course, Port and Stb. with cowls over the holes facing aft.  But the really interesting part of the design is that a trough was created between the drains Port and Stb. so that any water that comes in one drain tends to stay in the trough and  run right across and out the other side.  I have never seen anything in the locker before other than some minor dampness in the areas of the drains so I think that the locker bottoms might also slope to the drains.  I have also not beat to windward in more than 6’ seas nor seen more than 43 knots on this boat so maybe in severe conditions the drains are more of a problem. I am considering a minor change in the drains.  It should be possible to create a baffle that would prevent the entry of any water into the lockers from the drains.  It would work a little like the Aqua lift muffler to block water flowing in and allow any water that did enter to flow out of the drain when the bow lifted.  The twist turns on my bow lockers don’t really apply any compression to the gasket.  Are the bow locker gaskets compressed on the Super Maramu?

Keeping spaces, stuff salt free and dry on a cruising boat is a real challenge,  I completely agree with you.

Best,

James

On Oct 18, 2017, at 12:26 PM, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

James,

How do you lay out 100 meters of anchor chain on deck for rinsing and drying without beating the deck all to hell?  I haven't ever figured out a way to do that.

When I had a local fiberglass guy look at my anchor lockers to give a quote for the repair, the FIRST thing he wanted to do was add overboard drain holes to the lockers--which Super Maramus do not have.

I explained that on an Amel, if there is significant amounts of water coming into those lockers, something is wrong. Fix the problem (stop the water leaking in) rather than trying to fix the symptom (draining the water).  In a properly maintained bow locker on a Super Maramu, more water will come IN from an external drain than from any other source.

That doesn't mean the locker will be bone dry. Putting salty wet sails and lines in there will crea te a swamp-like environment, that's a different problem.  Keeping stuff as unsalty and as dry as possible is always a good thing--and much more challenging on a cruising boat than on a boat with a home port.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Back Creek, Annapolis, MD
Leaving for warm climes in a few days.

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Companionway key

Porter McRoberts

Excellent Info!  thank you!

Porter

Porter McRoberts
S/V Ibis: Amel 54-#152
Ft. Lauderdale
www.fouribis.com
portermcroberts@...

On Oct 18, 2017, at 12:19 PM, smlocalola@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

For all our fellow SMers in South Florida area, we've looked everywhere and finally found a master key maker that duplicated our companionway key. ACE hardware off 17th St. In the Harbor Shoppes plaza. Ask for Bob and use key style Y1E-ACE. If anyone that is not in the area needs assistance, let me know and I'll be glad to help.

Ian Townsend

Loca Lola II

SM153

New River, Fort Lauderdale, Florida

Companionway key

Ian Townsend

For all our fellow SMers in South Florida area, we've looked everywhere and finally found a master key maker that duplicated our companionway key. ACE hardware off 17th St. In the Harbor Shoppes plaza. Ask for Bob and use key style Y1E-ACE. If anyone that is not in the area needs assistance, let me know and I'll be glad to help.

Ian Townsend

Loca Lola II

SM153

New River, Fort Lauderdale, Florida

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow locker bottoms...

greatketch@...

James,

How do you lay out 100 meters of anchor chain on deck for rinsing and drying without beating the deck all to hell?  I haven't ever figured out a way to do that.

When I had a local fiberglass guy look at my anchor lockers to give a quote for the repair, the FIRST thing he wanted to do was add overboard drain holes to the lockers--which Super Maramus do not have.

I explained that on an Amel, if there is significant amounts of water coming into those lockers, something is wrong. Fix the problem (stop the water leaking in) rather than trying to fix the symptom (draining the water).  In a properly maintained bow locker on a Super Maramu, more water will come IN from an external drain than from any other source.

That doesn't mean the locker will be bone dry. Putting salty wet sails and lines in there will create a swamp-like environment, that's a different problem.  Keeping stuff as unsalty and as dry as possible is always a good thing--and much more challenging on a cruising boat than on a boat with a home port.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Back Creek, Annapolis, MD
Leaving for warm climes in a few days.

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Distributed vs. Conventional Electrical Systems

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>

Craig,

I agree with Alan's point and before we sold BeBe I had decided to place 6 of the Blue Sea 5191 MRBF Terminal Fuse Blocks with a removeable Blue Sea BS5185 (150A) amp fuse on each of the 6 positive battery pairs on the positive post  of the battery and connect the the positive lead for each pair to the newly installed terminal block fuse. My assumption was that the 500 amp bow thruster would not burn individual 150 amp fuses...I may be wrong on this. The fuses are available from 50 amps to 300 amps. Since the fuses are replaceable, I was going to buy extras.

Of course, I have not tested this, so I cannot say that it works and/or whether it is the best solution.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Commander Emeritus
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] NIKIMAT Illustrations & Parts for sale

Me too, although I own a Sharki only but some informations are even usefull for me.

Gerhard

amelyachtowners@...

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the amelyachtowners
group.

File : /Onan Genset Information/Onan Parts Manual MDKAV.pdf
Description : Onan Parts Manual MDKAV (Spec A-C) 2014

You can access this file at the URL:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/amelyachtowners/files/Onan%20Genset%20Information/Onan%20Parts%20Manual%20MDKAV.pdf

https://help.yahoo.com/kb/index?page=content&y=PROD_GRPS&locale=en_US&id=SLN15398

Regards,

mcgoverndenise <Mcgovern.denise@gmail.com>

amelyachtowners@...

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the amelyachtowners
group.

File : /Onan Genset Information/Service Manual-Onan-Mdkal.pdf
Description : ONAN Service Manual

You can access this file at the URL:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/amelyachtowners/files/Onan%20Genset%20Information/Service%20Manual-Onan-Mdkal.pdf

https://help.yahoo.com/kb/index?page=content&y=PROD_GRPS&locale=en_US&id=SLN15398

Regards,

mcgoverndenise <Mcgovern.denise@gmail.com>

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Distributed vs. Conventional Electrical Systems

Craig Briggs

Well, whatever spin you want to put on it, Alan's point that the battery cables should be protected close to the batteries, before they run through the boat and pose a fire hazard, is a good one.
Cheers,
Craig SN68

---In amelyachtowners@..., <mike.k.johnson@...> wrote :

Agree entirely with Bill R’s comments.

We have never found any defect with Henri Amel’s basic concept or workmanship on the SM2K.

The only problems we have faced is where others have attempted ‘fixes’ to the original specifications.

Very best wishes

Mike & Peta

Solitude
SM2K 461

On 17 Oct 2017, at 17:11, 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Amen Brother!!!

With best regards,

Mark

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

www.creampuff.us

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2017 11:16 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Distributed vs. Conventional Electrical Systems

Bill K and Pat,

I would never say that "I think Bill K's point is that he thinks Capt. Henri's original engineering was poorly done and left an unsafe condition with unprotected long wire runs."

I would not say anything like that for numerous reasons. I think you know why.

Since Henri Amel is not here to defend his decisions made many years ago, I will remind everyone that at the time these decisions were made they very likely conformed 100% with the regulations in force in Europe and conformed with the thinking at the time. Let's compare Henri Amel's engineering decisions to General Motors at the same time:

- Disintegrating plastic bumper parts

- 4-6-8 engines with 100% failure

- Gasoline to Diesel conversions with almost 100% failure

- Reduction of plasticides in paint which caused paint to fade in 6 years

- Plastic transmission parts which caused a new industry to emerge to repair transmissions

- Fiero & Corvair (one name says it all)

- Foam headliners which fell in 5 years

- Chrome coated plastic which lasted about 2 years

on, and on, and on.

Can one improve on yesterday's technology? Certainly!

Can one not understand decisions made yesterday? Absolutely!

Should one of us criticize Henri Amel? Never!

Anyway, this is my sermon for the month. I hope that you enjoyed it.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Commander Emeritus
http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970

On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 8:39 AM, sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Hi Pat,

Yes, that's why I thought Alan's adding the Blue Sea fuses at the batteries sounded wise. Btw, in my house the distribution panel is smack in the middle of the house which reduces the total amount of wiring. It does, of course, have a main service breaker at the external drop wire, analogous to Alan's Blue Sea fuse. Then there are separate fused disconnects adjacent to heavy loads like the A/C and hot water heater in addition to breakers for those at the distribution panel.

I think Bill K's point is that he thinks Capt. Henri's original engineering was poorly done and left an unsafe condition with unprotected long wire runs. Alan seems to have a good solution.  And, while the new Amel centralized panel would meet Bill K's criterion, it is (likely) not fused close to the batteries, leaving the same risk of chafe and shorting in either the wires going to the panel or the wires going to the engine & generator starting motors.

I do suspect that the industry will continue to modernize with Distributed electric systems and have not overlooked the risk of shorting in the long runs, although I haven't looked into it enough to know exactly how it is addressed.

Craig SN68

---In amelyachtowners@..., <sailw32@...> wrote :

Craig , Your original post seemed to support locating breakers far from the power source , however this post seems to acknowledge the protection offered by locating breakers as close as possible to the battery bank. You even pointed to boat that burned up cables as a result of a short . Now I must be missing something . When I build a house , I have 220v/ 200 amps coming through a  wall , I locate the distribution panel as close as possible to where it comes thru the wall. The ele ctric immediately goes thru appropriate size breakers and passes thru appropriate sized wiring on to  outlets ,  pumps ,etc . In the event of a short there is little chance of the wire being overloaded . You do not use 14g wire with a 20 amp breaker ! In a house you would not run a 220v line to a laundry room and place the breaker on the wall behind the dryer. I have never understood the difference between protecting a boat vs. a house . But , maybe I am missing something, it would not be the first time.

Pat

SM #123

-----Original Message-----
From: sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Mon, Oct 16, 2017 9:34 am
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Distributed vs. Conventional Electrical Systems

Alan,

That seems an excellent idea. I remember that in 2001 I totally redid SM Miss Lindy's wiring (don't recall the hull number) after it completely burned out for the third time. All the heavy cables in the engine room, from battery to starter to generator to main house feeds had melted solid. As I finished up I still had low volts from the engine to the battery.  Traced it to the starting cables having chaffed about 12 inches down inside the PVC pipe from the battery to the engine (that was supposedly there to prevent chafe). Your solution would have prevented much heartache and expense.

Will be interested in Bill K's bounce. Perhaps the modern distributed systems do incorporate that.

Craig SN#68

---In amelyachtowners@..., <divanz620@...> wrote :

well said Bill,

BUT that's exactly what we have on our SMs....th e anchor windlass, the genoa furler etc have the breakers at the "other end" of the cables that run from the house bank...and...on the standard setup, there are NO FUSES near the battery connections.

I've put large Blue Sea fuses in the battery compartment on each of my 3 banks of 4 6V series batteries to try to address these issues.

What have you done ?

Cheers

Alan

Elyse SM437

Craig,

I think you (and Amel in the "old days") are simply missing the point of circuit breakers.  They are most certainly NOT there to protect the anchor washdown pump, or t he thruster motor, or any other piece of equipment.  There is nothing a circuit breaker can do to "protect" the pump motor, or other device:  If it shorts, it has already died! If, in normal operation, it draws too much current for the wiring to support, then the wiring is undersized.

Circuit breakers are there to protect the WIRING and prevent the catastrophic results that can occur if a short occurs ANYWHERE that overloads the wiring.  This can occur from many faults, none of them likely, but all with disastrous consequences.  Wire chafe is probably the most common cause on boats, but others happen. I'd guess loose connections are a close second.

Having a breaker at the far end of the wire, away from the battery, completely misses the point of why it is there in the first place. In my opinion, if you have a circuit breaker at the point of use of the power, you might as well just replace it with a switch--it is essentially useless.

When I ran a service department for a large charter company, one of the annual safety meetings I ran for for my staff was to dead short circuit a 12 volt battery through 14 gauge wire.  Watching solid copper wire burst into flame and literally explode was a sobering experience for people who could easily get into the habit of thinking "its only 12 volts." It really made the point about why fuses and circuit breakers were essential.

There is nothing at all wrong with distributed CONTROL of an electrical system. That is just fancy electronics.  But... you can not "distribute" protection of the wiring. I have never heard a  good reason to run long lengths of un-fused wiring on a boat--or anywhere else.  It is just dangerous--and for absolutely no benefit.  Dangerous overloads rarely occur because of equipment problems.  They occur because of wiring faults.  Do they happen often?  No, not at all. But when they do, it is truly terrifying.

C-zone, Ocotplex, etc, a re NOT wiring protection systems.  They are not "circuit breakers".  They are CONTROL systems.  Very different animals.

I have seen several boat fires at much closer quarters than I ever hope to repeat, and most of them were electrical in origin, all from things that shouldn't have happened--but did.

Bill Kinney

Sm160, Harmonie

Back Creek, Annapolis, MD

---In amelyachtowners@..., <sangaris@...> wrote :

I'd always thought Amel was ahead of the curve with its Distributed Electrical System. That seems to be the direction the industry is going, now with solid state circuit breakers controlled through the NMEA2000 data network. Eliminates the large industrial style circuit breaker panels of yore and adds great flexibility. Check out CAPI2, C-Zone, Octoplex, etc. Seems Amel is going backwards technologically if they're centralizing. Let's see, your anchor washdown pump shorts and rather than it tripping an adjacent breaker it's got to overload a 15 meter long cable run back to the central circuit breaker panel. To say nothing of the excess wiring to give all equipment a "home run". Must be missing something in this discussion.

Cheers, Craig SN68 Sangaris

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