Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Bow light wiring gotcha

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

There is a product called cable lube. Lather that over any cable before you try to pull it through. You will be amazed how much easier it is
In the absence of cable lube try KY jelly or similar.
Danny
SM 299/Ocean Prarl

Sent from my Vodafone Smart

On 26 Nov 2017 08:42, "trifin@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Thanks Mark and James,

I'll try those ideas tomorrow, and then use a wire mouse line before trying the cable again.
The edges are too sharp for string.
Might try something on the wire to reduce friction too.
Nice to have another task for my new shop-vac, which did a lovely job of cleaning out the bilge.
Many thanks
Dean



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Bow light wiring gotcha

Peter Forbes
 

You guys are so inventive and brilliant - I take my hat off to you.

Very creative thinking.

Peter Forbes
Amel 54#035




Flexofold Prop

Patrick McAneny
 

I have a fixed prop and have been thinking about buying a Flexofold prop. They were one of about 15 folding or feathering props independently tested and outperformed all the others in almost every test , especially in lowest drag and highest thrust . Does anyone have personal experience with this prop. 

Thanks,

Pat 

SM #123


Re: Bow light wiring gotcha

Dean Gillies
 

Thanks Mark and James,
I'll try those ideas tomorrow, and then use a wire mouse line before trying the cable again.
The edges are too sharp for string.
Might try something on the wire to reduce friction too.
Nice to have another task for my new shop-vac, which did a lovely job of cleaning out the bilge.
Many thanks
Dean



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow light wiring gotcha

Mark Erdos
 

Very creative! Yet another use for the vacuum cleaner.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising – St. Lucia, the crime island

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2017 3:01 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow light wiring gotcha

 

 

Hi,
I solved this with a vacuum cleaner. To my surprise it worked first time. I used a thin piece of string that I balled and “fluffed” up at the end. The fluff is pulled through by the vacuum along with the rest. I taped the vacuum to the exit hole and also taped up any other holes so the air had only one route. The magnet is a great idea too.

Cheers,
James
SV SeaBean SM344
Papeete, Tahiti

On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 07:15 trifin@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Mark, that's a really interesting solution. How does it handle 90 degree corners?

Cheers, Dean

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow light wiring gotcha

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

very cunning

Danny

On 26 November 2017 at 05:53 "'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

In the past I have use a metal paperclip attached to a small thread (like sewing cotton). I moved the paperclip along the internal route using a magnet on the outside. Once the cotton thread was through, I attached a heavier duty fish to it and pull this through. Then, used the fish to get the wire.

 

Hope this helps

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising – St Lucia (the high crime island)

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2017 12:41 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow light wiring gotcha

 

 

When I bought my 54 in August, the bowlight was not working.  Anyway, Lopo were great and sent me a new light free of charge.  Today I have been attempting to connect the new light, which has ended in a little disaster!

 

It was quite a challenge to remove the old cable which runs inside the pulpit rail with a 90degree corner at the front another maybe 70 deg corner at the aft end of the rail before going into the cockpit locker.

 

Eventually I succeeded in pulling the old cable through with a 3mm mouse line attached, leaving the mouse line to pull the new cable through. All good so far!

 

I then tried to pull the new cable through and only succeeded in breaking the mouse line before getting the new cable past the first 90 deg corner.    The break was at the foot of the rail, where there must be a sharp edge which cut through the mouse cord. Maybe I should have a used a wire mouse line!

 

So, where does this leave me ?  Is there any clever way to recover from this and get the new cable through the pulpit rail?  

 

Time to open that bottle of wine Wolfgang. At least it's warm in here now :-)

 

Cheers

Dean

SY Stella

Amel 54 #154

 

 

 


 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow light wiring gotcha

Mark Erdos
 

Dean,

 

Make the paperclip small enough to go around the corners by folding it over on itself a few times. It sometimes will take a few tries but most often this will work. In the past I have also used a small nut but I only have stainless steel nuts on the boat. Paperclips work just as well.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising – St. Lucia, the crime island.

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2017 1:16 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow light wiring gotcha

 

 

Mark, that's a really interesting solution. How does it handle 90 degree corners?

Cheers, Dean

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow light wiring gotcha

James Studdart
 

Hi,
I solved this with a vacuum cleaner. To my surprise it worked first time. I used a thin piece of string that I balled and “fluffed” up at the end. The fluff is pulled through by the vacuum along with the rest. I taped the vacuum to the exit hole and also taped up any other holes so the air had only one route. The magnet is a great idea too.

Cheers,
James
SV SeaBean SM344
Papeete, Tahiti

On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 07:15 trifin@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Mark, that's a really interesting solution. How does it handle 90 degree corners?

Cheers, Dean


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow locker and hawse pipe deterioration

James Alton
 

Craig,
   There is no need to install the floor panels as one piece.  If you are using plywood, just fasten and epoxy a butt block to the bottom of the joint.  If you use plywood for the butt that is perhaps 25 percent thicker than the floor panel and overlap by 8x the panel thickness plus good fasteners and epoxy your jointed panel will be as strong as a full panel.  If doing the solid glass panels, you can use a thinner fiberglass butt to join your panels and then scarf back the edges of each panel about 8x the thickness and glass the two pcs. Together, again as strong as a solid panel if done well.  If you add any athwartships stiffeners, they could go in full length before the panels were installed which is what I will do if I go with a solid glass panel.  With care perhaps I will never need to replace the original panels which are now 30  years old.
  Best of luck with the pvc pipe, it should be ok if nothing extrodinary happens.  I think I will either use stainless pipe or a very heavy wall fiberglass pipe with a replaceable liner.

Best,
James  SV Sueno, Maramu #220


Sent from Samsung Mobile



-------- Original message --------
From: "sangaris@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Date: 11-25-2017 12:29 PM (GMT-04:00)
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow locker and hawse pipe deterioration


 

Thanks, again, James.


While the original floor did span the entire hull width, it was most certainly installed before the deck went on. One could not now fit a full spanning replacement piece for repair and constructing one in situ would be a bear. So, while the floor does stiffen the hull, I'm comfortable tying in two sections to the original tabbing.

Yes, it was surprising to find the original floor unfinished on the bottom - the top was gelcoated and well sealed from moisture.  It was clearly the original factory installed piece. The tabbing was only on the top. Similarly, the front of the bow thruster box was also unfinished except for the corners where there's frp tabbing over the joint. This plywood is starting to delaminate and repairing it is really critical, before it totally rots out.

Finally, while the original steel pipe may have added some support to the deck, I think the vertical bulkhead between the lockers, which is tabbed into the bow thruster box is doing that work. That is, any force on the pipe would be totally transferred to the floor and thus to the vertical bulkhead and the bow thruster box. I'm comfortable with using Schedule 80 PVC pipe as the replacement and it will be bonded to the underside of the deck and the floor with the original tabbing the steel pipe had - it's only about 18" long and will be very strong in both compression and tension.

Craig SN68

---In amelyachtowners@..., <lokiyawl2@...> wrote :

Craig,

   Thanks for the interesting discussion.    3/8” of solid glass will easily span 16” with adequate stiffness and in fact is probably  overkill.  On the other hand I would look at this from the standpoint of spanning the entire distance between the two sides of the boat rather than relying on the fore aft center panel and the deck to effectively support the floor.  I still think that this might require a method to stiffen the floor panel some.  It would be interesting to know the details of the engineering for sure but the design of the lockers and the positions of the panels suggests to me that these panels add quite a bit of strength and rigidity to the hull an deck in bow area.  The center partition panel for instance I believe would see some of the windlass and forestay loads while the locker floor would stiffen the hull quite a bit.  In other words, if I find the need to rebuild my forward lockers I will be sure to completely restore the original strength and stiffness and probably a bit more just to be sure that the boat has not been weakened at all.

    I am surprised that the plywood forming the floor of your lockers was not glassed over even on the top side of the panel?  Is  there any chance that the floor had been replaced before you bought the boat?  The floor on my Maramu is glassed on both sides though the glass on the bottom stops at the edge of the plywood leaving a gap at the hull since it would have been almost impossible to cover that joint from the bottom.  I have seen other Maramus where the bottom of the floor panel as viewed from inside the chain locker was not glassed so it is curious as to why the construction is different.     If you only have 20 square feet in the locker floor panels then the weight is certainly not going to be an issue but I think that it will be a little heavier than you thought.  I am getting about 60 lbs. for the floor panel in solid glass based on your 20 square foot estimate:  20 square feet x .375 = 7.5”/12 = .625 x 96  = 60 lbs.   You will also be removing the old plywood so the actual increase in weight would be less than that.  For sure with the all fibreglass panels you will never have to worry about the floor rotting again.  
   You are correct,  a 3/8” 4' x 8’ sheet of fir plywood would weigh in the neighbourhood of 36 pounds and so would a 12” x 12” x 12” block of Fir since other than the glue both of these are essentially the same thing. (grin)  The 12” x 12” x 12” solid block of fibreglass would be around 96 lbs. so about 3X the density.  

   I do wonder if the steel pipe originally installed by Amel as the chain pipe might be needed from a structural standpoint as a compression member between the floor of the lockers and the deck in certain circumstances.  An anchor launched in deep water running out fairly quickly and a ball/loop of chain jamming in the chain locker under the locker floor for instance cut put quite a bit of upward force on the locker floor.  A strong compression member could carry that stress to the deck which should be quite a bit stronger than just the 3/8” fibreglass floor… Henri might have had that concern in mind when the steel pipe was specified but I am only guessing.  So while I might upgrade some materials when making repairs such as using stainless pipe instead of the original steel, I personally would be a little uncomfortable reducing the strength as compared to the original design.

 Best of luck with your project.  

James
SV Suneo,  Maramu #220

   
On Nov 21, 2017, at 10:51 AM, sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Thanks again, James,

Interestingly, the original construction was not fiberglassed plywood. It was just plywood with fiberglass tabbing around the edges to the hull and then finished on top with gelcoat over both the tabbing and the unfinished plywood. The underside was not finished. 

I should think a thickness of about 3/8" would be sufficient since the width being spanned runs from 2-3 inches to only about 16" maximum.  If I'm not mistaken 3/8 plywood is only about 1 pound per square foot, say roughly 36 pounds for a full 4' X 8' sheet (I think that's the 36 lbs you noted).  In any event there's only about 20 square feet total, so the total weight will only be 25 to 30 pounds - and similar to what I removed. Plus all our stern-heavy Amels need some extra weight up front, anyway :-)  

Regarding the hawse pipe support, I was able to retain the original fiberglass support structures (fillets) on the underside of the deck and on the floor by cutting and peeling out the pipe in small pieces.  This will give excellent support to the new pipe akin to the original.

Cheers, Craig


---In amelyachtowners@..., <lokiyawl2@...> wrote :

Craig,

   Solid fiberglass weighs in around 96 lbs. per square foot versus for instance fir plywood at 36 lbs. per square foot so it is likely that you will add some weight by going with all fibreglass panels to reach the desired stiffness but that would certainly solve the rot concerns permanently.  There are bulking fabrics such as fab matt to build thickness with less weight but I have seen so many failures with those products that I would avoid them myself.  I would think that you could reach the desired stiffness with a total panel thickness that was  thinner than the wood plus fibreglass original so the weight increase should not be as much 3X.  You could add solid fibreglass ribs to the bottom of your panels get the desired stiffness with a lighter weight as compared to a plain panel and I don’t think the ribs would interfere in anyway.  If the panels in my boat rot out at some point, I would certainly consider a similar solution since the anchor locker is going to be a tough place for wood due to the ongoing humidity and dampness.  

    Your idea of using the conduit is interesting as it would never corrode.  I wonder if it would be strong enough by itself and how to secure the ends so that it could never move?  Some kind of a plastic replaceable liner inside of a heavy fibreglass pipe glassed at both ends sounds interesting and permanent.

Best,

James
SV Sueno,  Maramu #220


On Nov 20, 2017, at 4:25 PM, sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Thanks, James, for your good input.  


I'm thinking of using Heavy Wall Schedule 80 PVC electrical conduit for the new hawse pipe - easy to work with and should last longer than I. 
May just lay up fiberglass panels for the bottoms.

Craig SN#68


---In amelyachtowners@..., <lokiyawl2@...> wrote :

Craig,

   Good information.  Just note that plywood panels can definitely rot out if glassed on the top and bottom.  Just think of all of the rotten plywood core decks,  transoms in power boats etc.  If you can however exclude the water from the wood completely or keep the moisture content of the wood below a critical level it will never rot.  Epoxy resin will do a better job of excluding moisture than polyester.  The edge of the plywood panel where the end grain of the wood is needs to be very well sealed since moisture will travel the fastest through the end grain.  Any holes in the panel need to have a ring of epoxy around the hole to prevent any moisture entering the panel, caulking isn’t enough IMO.  A Marine plywood panel should have a waterproof glue but you can buy panels that vary greatly in durability based on the wood species selected.   Wood boats can last a very long time  (one boat that I maintain is 109 years old and the planking is almost all original and solid)  even though they remain wet for most of there lives.  Using durable woods and providing good ventilation are the key points.  For the bow lockers I would suggest selecting a species in the “durable” category such as Fir or Sapele.  Be sure that the panel is solid core with no voids and that the inner plys are of the same species/durability rating.   If the locker contains air that is saturated (near or at 100% humidity due to a lack of venting and water being in the locker) any exposed wood will tend to take on moisture and cannot ever dry.  Opening the locker lids on a nice day or providing some kind of ventilation can help lower the humidity levels in the lockers and thereby extend the life of the original or replacement panels.   

    Thanks for the information about the chain pipe being galvanized,  I did not realize this.  This might be a good place for 316 stainless or perhaps using a very thick fibreglass pipe which will of course wear over time.   

James
SV Sueno,  Maramu #220 

On Nov 20, 2017, at 10:53 AM, sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Over the years there have been several posts about the bow locker floors deteriorating due to water rotting out the plywood. I did a minor repair to mine some years ago, but other sections succumbed and I've now removed the entire floors from both lockers. 


Int


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow light wiring gotcha

Dean Gillies
 

Mark, that's a really interesting solution. How does it handle 90 degree corners?
Cheers, Dean


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Using diesel on hard-stand

Peter Forbes
 

Wolfgang,

Good to hear from you - I hope your Volvo problems are over and all is OK with you. We sailed on round the World - stopping to fit a whole new Volvo “long-block” engine in French Polynesia (unfortunate accident by local French Volvo agent - who denied all liability for broken cam shaft belt) - so we fitted new engine at our expense. Then we completed circumnavigation. Now we are in St Lucia.

Best wishes

Peter Forbes
Amel 54 #035
Carango


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow light wiring gotcha

Mark Erdos
 

In the past I have use a metal paperclip attached to a small thread (like sewing cotton). I moved the paperclip along the internal route using a magnet on the outside. Once the cotton thread was through, I attached a heavier duty fish to it and pull this through. Then, used the fish to get the wire.

 

Hope this helps

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising – St Lucia (the high crime island)

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2017 12:41 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow light wiring gotcha

 

 

When I bought my 54 in August, the bowlight was not working.  Anyway, Lopo were great and sent me a new light free of charge.  Today I have been attempting to connect the new light, which has ended in a little disaster!

 

It was quite a challenge to remove the old cable which runs inside the pulpit rail with a 90degree corner at the front another maybe 70 deg corner at the aft end of the rail before going into the cockpit locker.

 

Eventually I succeeded in pulling the old cable through with a 3mm mouse line attached, leaving the mouse line to pull the new cable through. All good so far!

 

I then tried to pull the new cable through and only succeeded in breaking the mouse line before getting the new cable past the first 90 deg corner.  😡  The break was at the foot of the rail, where there must be a sharp edge which cut through the mouse cord. Maybe I should have a used a wire mouse line!

 

So, where does this leave me ?  Is there any clever way to recover from this and get the new cable through the pulpit rail?  

 

Time to open that bottle of wine Wolfgang. At least it's warm in here now :-)

 

Cheers

Dean

SY Stella

Amel 54 #154

 


Bow light wiring gotcha

Dean Gillies
 

When I bought my 54 in August, the bowlight was not working.  Anyway, Lopo were great and sent me a new light free of charge.  Today I have been attempting to connect the new light, which has ended in a little disaster!


It was quite a challenge to remove the old cable which runs inside the pulpit rail with a 90degree corner at the front another maybe 70 deg corner at the aft end of the rail before going into the cockpit locker.


Eventually I succeeded in pulling the old cable through with a 3mm mouse line attached, leaving the mouse line to pull the new cable through. All good so far!


I then tried to pull the new cable through and only succeeded in breaking the mouse line before getting the new cable past the first 90 deg corner.  😡  The break was at the foot of the rail, where there must be a sharp edge which cut through the mouse cord. Maybe I should have a used a wire mouse line!


So, where does this leave me ?  Is there any clever way to recover from this and get the new cable through the pulpit rail?  


Time to open that bottle of wine Wolfgang. At least it's warm in here now :-)


Cheers

Dean

SY Stella

Amel 54 #154



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow locker and hawse pipe deterioration

Craig Briggs
 

Thanks, again, James.

While the original floor did span the entire hull width, it was most certainly installed before the deck went on. One could not now fit a full spanning replacement piece for repair and constructing one in situ would be a bear. So, while the floor does stiffen the hull, I'm comfortable tying in two sections to the original tabbing.

Yes, it was surprising to find the original floor unfinished on the bottom - the top was gelcoated and well sealed from moisture.  It was clearly the original factory installed piece. The tabbing was only on the top. Similarly, the front of the bow thruster box was also unfinished except for the corners where there's frp tabbing over the joint. This plywood is starting to delaminate and repairing it is really critical, before it totally rots out.

Finally, while the original steel pipe may have added some support to the deck, I think the vertical bulkhead between the lockers, which is tabbed into the bow thruster box is doing that work. That is, any force on the pipe would be totally transferred to the floor and thus to the vertical bulkhead and the bow thruster box. I'm comfortable with using Schedule 80 PVC pipe as the replacement and it will be bonded to the underside of the deck and the floor with the original tabbing the steel pipe had - it's only about 18" long and will be very strong in both compression and tension.

Craig SN68

---In amelyachtowners@..., <lokiyawl2@...> wrote :

Craig,

   Thanks for the interesting discussion.    3/8” of solid glass will easily span 16” with adequate stiffness and in fact is probably  overkill.  On the other hand I would look at this from the standpoint of spanning the entire distance between the two sides of the boat rather than relying on the fore aft center panel and the deck to effectively support the floor.  I still think that this might require a method to stiffen the floor panel some.  It would be interesting to know the details of the engineering for sure but the design of the lockers and the positions of the panels suggests to me that these panels add quite a bit of strength and rigidity to the hull an deck in bow area.  The center partition panel for instance I believe would see some of the windlass and forestay loads while the locker floor would stiffen the hull quite a bit.  In other words, if I find the need to rebuild my forward lockers I will be sure to completely restore the original strength and stiffness and probably a bit more just to be sure that the boat has not been weakened at all.

    I am surprised that the plywood forming the floor of your lockers was not glassed over even on the top side of the panel?  Is  there any chance that the floor had been replaced before you bought the boat?  The floor on my Maramu is glassed on both sides though the glass on the bottom stops at the edge of the plywood leaving a gap at the hull since it would have been almost impossible to cover that joint from the bottom.  I have seen other Maramus where the bottom of the floor panel as viewed from inside the chain locker was not glassed so it is curious as to why the construction is different.     If you only have 20 square feet in the locker floor panels then the weight is certainly not going to be an issue but I think that it will be a little heavier than you thought.  I am getting about 60 lbs. for the floor panel in solid glass based on your 20 square foot estimate:  20 square feet x .375 = 7.5”/12 = .625 x 96  = 60 lbs.   You will also be removing the old plywood so the actual increase in weight would be less than that.  For sure with the all fibreglass panels you will never have to worry about the floor rotting again.  
   You are correct,  a 3/8” 4' x 8’ sheet of fir plywood would weigh in the neighbourhood of 36 pounds and so would a 12” x 12” x 12” block of Fir since other than the glue both of these are essentially the same thing. (grin)  The 12” x 12” x 12” solid block of fibreglass would be around 96 lbs. so about 3X the density.  

   I do wonder if the steel pipe originally installed by Amel as the chain pipe might be needed from a structural standpoint as a compression member between the floor of the lockers and the deck in certain circumstances.  An anchor launched in deep water running out fairly quickly and a ball/loop of chain jamming in the chain locker under the locker floor for instance cut put quite a bit of upward force on the locker floor.  A strong compression member could carry that stress to the deck which should be quite a bit stronger than just the 3/8” fibreglass floor… Henri might have had that concern in mind when the steel pipe was specified but I am only guessing.  So while I might upgrade some materials when making repairs such as using stainless pipe instead of the original steel, I personally would be a little uncomfortable reducing the strength as compared to the original design.

 Best of luck with your project.  

James
SV Suneo,  Maramu #220

   

On Nov 21, 2017, at 10:51 AM, sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Thanks again, James,

Interestingly, the original construction was not fiberglassed plywood. It was just plywood with fiberglass tabbing around the edges to the hull and then finished on top with gelcoat over both the tabbing and the unfinished plywood. The underside was not finished. 

I should think a thickness of about 3/8" would be sufficient since the width being spanned runs from 2-3 inches to only about 16" maximum.  If I'm not mistaken 3/8 plywood is only about 1 pound per square foot, say roughly 36 pounds for a full 4' X 8' sheet (I think that's the 36 lbs you noted).  In any event there's only about 20 square feet total, so the total weight will only be 25 to 30 pounds - and similar to what I removed. Plus all our stern-heavy Amels need some extra weight up front, anyway :-)  

Regarding the hawse pipe support, I was able to retain the original fiberglass support structures (fillets) on the underside of the deck and on the floor by cutting and peeling out the pipe in small pieces.  This will give excellent support to the new pipe akin to the original.

Cheers, Craig


---In amelyachtowners@..., <lokiyawl2@...> wrote :

Craig,

   Solid fiberglass weighs in around 96 lbs. per square foot versus for instance fir plywood at 36 lbs. per square foot so it is likely that you will add some weight by going with all fibreglass panels to reach the desired stiffness but that would certainly solve the rot concerns permanently.  There are bulking fabrics such as fab matt to build thickness with less weight but I have seen so many failures with those products that I would avoid them myself.  I would think that you could reach the desired stiffness with a total panel thickness that was  thinner than the wood plus fibreglass original so the weight increase should not be as much 3X.  You could add solid fibreglass ribs to the bottom of your panels get the desired stiffness with a lighter weight as compared to a plain panel and I don’t think the ribs would interfere in anyway.  If the panels in my boat rot out at some point, I would certainly consider a similar solution since the anchor locker is going to be a tough place for wood due to the ongoing humidity and dampness.  

    Your idea of using the conduit is interesting as it would never corrode.  I wonder if it would be strong enough by itself and how to secure the ends so that it could never move?  Some kind of a plastic replaceable liner inside of a heavy fibreglass pipe glassed at both ends sounds interesting and permanent.

Best,

James
SV Sueno,  Maramu #220


On Nov 20, 2017, at 4:25 PM, sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Thanks, James, for your good input.  


I'm thinking of using Heavy Wall Schedule 80 PVC electrical conduit for the new hawse pipe - easy to work with and should last longer than I. 
May just lay up fiberglass panels for the bottoms.

Craig SN#68


---In amelyachtowners@..., <lokiyawl2@...> wrote :

Craig,

   Good information.  Just note that plywood panels can definitely rot out if glassed on the top and bottom.  Just think of all of the rotten plywood core decks,  transoms in power boats etc.  If you can however exclude the water from the wood completely or keep the moisture content of the wood below a critical level it will never rot.  Epoxy resin will do a better job of excluding moisture than polyester.  The edge of the plywood panel where the end grain of the wood is needs to be very well sealed since moisture will travel the fastest through the end grain.  Any holes in the panel need to have a ring of epoxy around the hole to prevent any moisture entering the panel, caulking isn’t enough IMO.  A Marine plywood panel should have a waterproof glue but you can buy panels that vary greatly in durability based on the wood species selected.   Wood boats can last a very long time  (one boat that I maintain is 109 years old and the planking is almost all original and solid)  even though they remain wet for most of there lives.  Using durable woods and providing good ventilation are the key points.  For the bow lockers I would suggest selecting a species in the “durable” category such as Fir or Sapele.  Be sure that the panel is solid core with no voids and that the inner plys are of the same species/durability rating.   If the locker contains air that is saturated (near or at 100% humidity due to a lack of venting and water being in the locker) any exposed wood will tend to take on moisture and cannot ever dry.  Opening the locker lids on a nice day or providing some kind of ventilation can help lower the humidity levels in the lockers and thereby extend the life of the original or replacement panels.   

    Thanks for the information about the chain pipe being galvanized,  I did not realize this.  This might be a good place for 316 stainless or perhaps using a very thick fibreglass pipe which will of course wear over time.   

James
SV Sueno,  Maramu #220 

On Nov 20, 2017, at 10:53 AM, sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Over the years there have been several posts about the bow locker floors deteriorating due to water rotting out the plywood. I did a minor repair to mine some years ago, but other sections succumbed and I've now removed the entire floors from both lockers. 


Interesting findings:

- Indeed, virtually all the plywood was rotted out, as I expected

-  Surprisingly, the main entry point for water was the hawse pipe. (I thought my deck locker hatches had been leaking, but they had not.) I had seen some rust stains but never found the cause. Turns out the pipe is a standard galvanized one and, over the years, the chain sliding up and down removed the galvanizing and the pipe rusted through. There was a finger width opening on the back side of the pipe at the top and another further d own and these are not at all obvious.

- Having removed the floors I could inspect the bow thruster structure (with some contortions to get myself below the floor level). The structure is made of plywood, well tabbed into the hull and the corners are glassed together, leaving the middle wood surfaces exposed and, surprisingly, unfinished. Oddly, the lower half, from the hull up, is nicely protected by gelcoat. The upper half is not finished at all and the plywood is starting to delaminate on the front side (which is virtually impossible to see with the floors installed). This is where water will run down from the hawse pipe normally.  Fortunately, it is only the surface layers of the plywood that have delaminated and the remainder is still solid, so I can build it back up with fiberglass laminate.

- The floors were only tabbed on the top (getting to the bottom being impractical) and this provides an excellent lip to lay the new floor s on. I'm using marine plywood and applying fiberglass to the bottom before installation to prevent a recurrence.


So, with many of our boats in the 25-30 year range, this area is worth a close inspection. I'm adding a 10" X 16" inspection hatch on the port side locker to allow for future inspections and easier cleanup of the chain locker in the future.


Cheers,  Craig Briggs, SN#68, Ft Pierce, FL











Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Using diesel on hard-stand

Craig Briggs
 

One more thing - don't leave a bumper hanging over the exhaust. 
Don't ask how I know :-)
Craig


---In amelyachtowners@..., <trifin@...> wrote :

Excellent, thanks Wolfgang.
I have wine :-)


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Using diesel on hard-stand

Dean Gillies
 

Excellent, thanks Wolfgang.
I have wine :-)


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Using diesel on hard-stand

Wolfgang Weber
 

Dean,
No problem,  you can use it. Don't block the air-inlet at the mizzen and exhaust at the hull.
Have enough diesel and wine...
For safety reasons I have a carbon monoxide detector and alarm in the saloon and cabin where I sleep.  
All these alarms .... 
Enjoy your time in Greece. 
Wolfgang Weber SY ELISE Amel 54 #162

-------- Ursprüngliche Nachricht --------
Von: "trifin@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Datum: 25.11.17 15:39 (GMT+01:00)
An: amelyachtowners@...
Betreff: [Amel Yacht Owners] Using diesel on hard-stand

 

A quick safety check ...

I want to use my diesel Webasto heater while the boat is out of the water.

I cannot see anything in the manuals to suggest I cannot do this

Would anyone suggest I don't use it and why?

Cheers from chilly Greece!

Dean

SY Stella

Amel 54 #154


Using diesel on hard-stand

Dean Gillies
 

A quick safety check ...

I want to use my diesel Webasto heater while the boat is out of the water.

I cannot see anything in the manuals to suggest I cannot do this

Would anyone suggest I don't use it and why?

Cheers from chilly Greece!

Dean

SY Stella

Amel 54 #154


Re: Looking for a testsail on Amel 54

Arno Luijten
 

Hi Bill,

Thanks for you reply. I actually received a message from your client that is on this boat at present. He pointed me in the same direction. We are looking into it.

Thanks again,

Arno


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow locker and hawse pipe deterioration

karkauai
 

Hi Craig.  The original tabs were left in place, about 1 1/2" all around.  The new Flores sit on those tabs and the top of the floors is tabbed to the hull with about 3" overlaps.  I can jump up and down on the new floor with no appreciable give.

Kent
SM243
Kristy