Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Depth of life raft locker

karkauai
 

Congratulations Mark on your new Amel.  I can't tell you the depth of the locker as I am not on the boat, but it is close to 4 feet.  I just bought a 6-man Switlik that weighs about 60 lbs and is a considerably smaller package than my old Datrex raft.  I'm 70 years old now and don't think I'd have any problem yanking it out with adrenaline pumping.  It is very close to the extra mizzen halyard if necessary.
I don't like having large equipment hanging outside the lifelines.
Kent
SN243
Kristy


Hello All,

I am fairly new to the forum and very new to Amel ownership having just purchased SM #391 in FLL.  I don't have access to the boat just yet, but would like to know the depth of the port side locker so I can begin looking into a life raft replacement that will fit in that locker.

Thanks to all for this great resource!

Mark Isaac
SM #391
Ft. Lauderdale



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow light wiring gotcha

karkauai
 

Hi Dean.  I don't know how the 54 bow pulpit compares to the SM 2000, but on Kristy, I was able to use a steel tape starting at the exit by the starboard light and retrieving it at the bottom of the stanchion.  I attached a small line to the end of the tape and retrieved it at the stanchion without getting the steel tape out.  I then pulled a larger line through, then pulled the new cable through using some lubricant designed for pulling wires.  I felt really lucky after doing exactly what you did.

Kent
S/V Kristy
SM243

On Nov 25, 2017, at 11:40, trifin@... wrote:

 

When I bought my 54 in August, the bowlight was not working.  Anyway, Lopo were great and sent me a new light free of charge.  Today I have been attempting to connect the new light, which has ended in a little disaster!


It was quite a challenge to remove the old cable which runs inside the pulpit rail with a 90degree corner at the front another maybe 70 deg corner at the aft end of the rail before going into the cockpit locker.


Eventually I succeeded in pulling the old cable through with a 3mm mouse line attached, leaving the mouse line to pull the new cable through. All good so far!


I then tried to pull the new cable through and only succeeded in breaking the mouse line before getting the new cable past the first 90 deg corner.  😡  The break was at the foot of the rail, where there must be a sharp edge which cut through the mouse cord. Maybe I should have a used a wire mouse line!


So, where does this leave me ?  Is there any clever way to recover from this and get the new cable through the pulpit rail?  


Time to open that bottle of wine Wolfgang. At least it's warm in here now :-)


Cheers

Dean

SY Stella



Re: Depth of life raft locker

svperegrinus@yahoo.com
 

We have a Winslow "Super Light Offshore Plus" for 4 persons.  Well, 4 midgets, anyway.

We sent Winslow an extra EPIRB which they sealed inside and the final package was 8” x 17” x 36”.  They can fold their pack in other sizes as well.  At no additional charges they put extra handles at the end of the long sides.

A carpenter installed a sort of shelf, 8.5" deep with a small lip, forwardmost of the port side locker.  The raft stands upright by itself, held by the lip, with its top almost touching the closed hatch.  As the Winslow is very light, we've tested it and my wife, for example, can easily pull it out.

Below the shelf we've traditionally stored a couple of bottles of wine, but now we have two 2-liter bottles of fine Montenegrin beer.

Cheers,

Peregrinus
SM2K #350 (2002)
Classic Yacht Marina, Ancient Telmessos, Asia Minor

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Depth of life raft locker

eric freedman
 

Winslow makes a great raft and has over 8 different cases for the raft.

I bought the offshore lightweight one.

However I keep it in the port locker with my Jordan drogue.

I had two fuel tanks fitted to the life raft locker which hold an additional 70 gallons of diesel.

 

I found pulling a raft from the bottom of that locker was a backbreaker.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2017 1:05 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Depth of life raft locker

 

 

Hello Isaac’s. The life raft locker on all Amel Super Maramus has a hatch/opening that is 27 ½” long and 16” wide. The depth of the locker is 40” from the opening to the bottom. The internal length and width measurements are a few inches more in each dimension than the size of the opening under the hatch.

 

Have Fun With Your Amel!

 

Joel

Joel F. Potter/Cruising Yacht Specialist LLC

THE EXPERIENCED AMEL GUY

954 462 5869 office

954 812 2485 cell

 

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2017 10:46 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Depth of life raft locker

 

 

Hello All,

I am fairly new to the forum and very new to Amel ownership having just purchased SM #391 in FLL.  I don't have access to the boat just yet, but would like to know the depth of the port side locker so I can begin looking into a life raft replacement that will fit in that locker.

Thanks to all for this great resource!

Mark Isaac
SM #391
Ft. Lauderdale

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow locker and hawse pipe deterioration

James Alton
 

Craig,

   Sorry if I was unclear in anyway.  My point is that would want the new floor panel to the have the strength and stiffness of the original  panel or better.  The reference to spanning refers to the load carrying ability of panel.  The suggestions I made for the plywood or the fibreglass panel joints should be as strong as the original if properly done. Simply tabbing two panels to the center bulkhead alone for instance would not be as strong.  Best of luck with the repairs.

Best,

James
SV Sueno,  Maramu #220
  

On Nov 26, 2017, at 10:32 AM, sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Right James, I was simply responding to your earlier statement that, " (you) would look at this from the standpoint of spanning the entire distance between the two sides of the boat", which, of course, can't be done with one piece and one needs a joint.

Cheers, Craig


---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

Craig,
   There is no need to install the floor panels as one piece.  If you are using plywood, just fasten and epoxy a butt block to the bottom of the joint.  If you use plywood for the butt that is perhaps 25 percent thicker than the floor panel and overlap by 8x the panel thickness plus good fasteners and epoxy your jointed panel will be as strong as a full panel.  If doing the solid glass panels, you can use a thinner fiberglass butt to join your panels and then scarf back the edges of each panel about 8x the thickness and glass the two pcs. Together, again as strong as a solid panel if done well.  If you add any athwartships stiffeners, they could go in full length before the panels were installed which is what I will do if I go with a solid glass panel.  With care perhaps I will never need to replace the original panels which are now 30  years old.
  Best of luck with the pvc pipe, it should be ok if nothing extrodinary happens.  I think I will either use stainless pipe or a very heavy wall fiberglass pipe with a replaceable liner.

Best,
James  SV Sueno, Maramu #220


Sent from Samsung Mobile



-------- Original message --------
From: "sangaris@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> 
Date: 11-25-2017 12:29 PM (GMT-04:00) 
To: amelyachtowners@... 
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow locker and hawse pipe deterioration 


 

Thanks, again, James.


While the original floor did span the entire hull width, it was most certainly installed before the deck went on. One could not now fit a full spanning replacement piece for repair and constructing one in situ would be a bear. So, while the floor does stiffen the hull, I'm comfortable tying in two sections to the original tabbing.

Yes, it was surprising to find the original floor unfinished on the bottom - the top was gelcoated and well sealed from moisture.  It was clearly the original factory installed piece. The tabbing was only on the top. Similarly, the front of the bow thruster box was also unfinished except for the corners where there's frp tabbing over the joint. This plywood is starting to delaminate and repairing it is really critical, before it totally rots out.

Finally, while the original steel pipe may have added some support to the deck, I think the vertical bulkhead between the lockers, which is tabbed into the bow thruster box is doing that work. That is, any force on the pipe would be totally transferred to the floor and thus to the vertical bulkhead and the bow thruster box. I'm comfortable with using Schedule 80 PVC pipe as the replacement and it will be bonded to the underside of the deck and the floor with the original tabbing the steel pipe had - it's only about 18" long and will be very strong in both compression and tension.

Craig SN68

---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

Craig,

   Thanks for the interesting discussion.    3/8” of solid glass will easily span 16” with adequate stiffness and in fact is probably  overkill.  On the other hand I would look at this from the standpoint of spanning the entire distance between the two sides of the boat rather than relying on the fore aft center panel and the deck to effectively support the floor.  I still think that this might require a method to stiffen the floor panel some.  It would be interesting to know the details of the engineering for sure but the design of the lockers and the positions of the panels suggests to me that these panels add quite a bit of strength and rigidity to the hull an deck in bow area.  The center partition panel for instance I believe would see some of the windlass and forestay loads while the locker floor would stiffen the hull quite a bit.  In other words, if I find the need to rebuild my forward lockers I will be sure to completely restore the original strength and stiffness and probably a bit more just to be sure that the boat has not been weakened at all.

    I am surprised that the plywood forming the floor of your lockers was not glassed over even on the top side of the panel?  Is  there any chance that the floor had been replaced before you bought the boat?  The floor on my Maramu is glassed on both sides though the glass on the bottom stops at the edge of the plywood leaving a gap at the hull since it would have been almost impossible to cover that joint from the bottom.  I have seen other Maramus where the bottom of the floor panel as viewed from inside the chain locker was not glassed so it is curious as to why the construction is different.     If you only have 20 square feet in the locker floor panels then the weight is certainly not going to be an issue but I think that it will be a little heavier than you thought.  I am getting about 60 lbs. for the floor panel in solid glass based on your 20 square foot estimate:  20 square feet x .375 = 7.5”/12 = .625 x 96  = 60 lbs.   You will also be removing the old plywood so the actual increase in weight would be less than that.  For sure with the all fibreglass panels you will never have to worry about the floor rotting again.  
   You are correct,  a 3/8” 4' x 8’ sheet of fir plywood would weigh in the neighbourhood of 36 pounds and so would a 12” x 12” x 12” block of Fir since other than the glue both of these are essentially the same thing. (grin)  The 12” x 12” x 12” solid block of fibreglass would be around 96 lbs. so about 3X the density.  

   I do wonder if the steel pipe originally installed by Amel as the chain pipe might be needed from a structural standpoint as a compression member between the floor of the lockers and the deck in certain circumstances.  An anchor launched in deep water running out fairly quickly and a ball/loop of chain jamming in the chain locker under the locker floor for instance cut put quite a bit of upward force on the locker floor.  A strong compression member could carry that stress to the deck which should be quite a bit stronger than just the 3/8” fibreglass floor… Henri might have had that concern in mind when the steel pipe was specified but I am only guessing.  So while I might upgrade some materials when making repairs such as using stainless pipe instead of the original steel, I personally would be a little uncomfortable reducing the strength as compared to the original design.

 Best of luck with your project.  

James
SV Suneo,  Maramu #220

   
On Nov 21, 2017, at 10:51 AM, sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Thanks again, James,

Interestingly, the original construction was not fiberglassed plywood. It was just plywood with fiberglass tabbing around the edges to the hull and then finished on top with gelcoat over both the tabbing and the unfinished plywood. The underside was not finished. 

I should think a thickness of about 3/8" would be sufficient since the width being spanned runs from 2-3 inches to only about 16" maximum.  If I'm not mistaken 3/8 plywood is only about 1 pound per square foot, say roughly 36 pounds for a full 4' X 8' sheet (I think that's the 36 lbs you noted).  In any event there's only about 20 square feet total, so the total weight will only be 25 to 30 pounds - and similar to what I removed. Plus all our stern-heavy Amels need some extra weight up front, anyway :-)  

Regarding the hawse pipe support, I was able to retain the original fiberglass support structures (fillets) on the underside of the deck and on the floor by cutting and peeling out the pipe in small pieces.  This will give excellent support to the new pipe akin to the original.

Cheers, Craig


---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

Craig,

   Solid fiberglass weighs in around 96 lbs. per square foot versus for instance fir plywood at 36 lbs. per square foot so it is likely that you will add some weight by going with all fibreglass panels to reach the desired stiffness but that would certainly solve the rot concerns permanently.  There are bulking fabrics such as fab matt to build thickness with less weight but I have seen so many failures with those products that I would avoid them myself.  I would think that you could reach the desired stiffness with a total panel thickness that was  thinner than the wood plus fibreglass original so the weight increase should not be as much 3X.  You could add solid fibreglass ribs to the bottom of your panels get the desired stiffness with a lighter weight as compared to a plain panel and I don’t think the ribs would interfere in anyway.  If the panels in my boat rot out at some point, I would certainly consider a similar solution since the anchor locker is going to be a tough place for wood due to the ongoing humidity and dampness.  

    Your idea of using the conduit is interesting as it would never corrode.  I wonder if it would be strong enough by itself and how to secure the ends so that it could never move?  Some kind of a plastic replaceable liner inside of a heavy fibreglass pipe glassed at both ends sounds interesting and permanent.

Best,

James
SV Sueno,  Maramu #220


On Nov 20, 2017, at 4:25 PM, sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Thanks, James, for your good input.  


I'm thinking of using Heavy Wall Schedule 80 PVC electrical conduit for the new hawse pipe - easy to work with and should last longer than I. 
May just lay up fiberglass panels for the bottoms.

Craig SN#68


---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

Craig,

   Good information.  Just note that plywood panels can definitely rot out if glassed on the top and bottom.  Just think of all of the rotten plywood core decks,  transoms in power boats etc.  If you can however exclude the water from the wood completely or keep the moisture content of the wood below a critical level it will never rot.  Epoxy resin will do a better job of excluding moisture than polyester.  The edge of the plywood panel where the end grain of the wood is needs to be very well sealed since moisture will travel the fastest through the end grain.  Any holes in the panel need to have a ring of epoxy around the hole to prevent any moisture entering the panel, caulking isn’t enough IMO.  A Marine plywood panel should have a waterproof glue but you can buy panels that vary greatly in durability based on the wood species selected.   Wood boats can last a very long time  (one boat that I maintain is 109 years old and the planking is almost all original and solid)  even though they remain wet for most of there lives.  Using durable woods and providing good ventilation are the key points.  For the bow lockers I would suggest selecting a species in the “durable” category such as Fir or Sapele.  Be sure that the panel is solid core with no voids and that the inner plys are of the same species/durability rating.   If the locker contains air that is saturated (near or at 100% humidity due to a lack of venting and water being in the locker) any exposed wood will tend to take on moisture and cannot ever dry.  Opening the locker lids on a nice day or providing some kind of ventilation can help lower the humidity levels in the lockers and thereby extend the life of the original or replacement panels.   

    Thanks for the information about the chain pipe being galvanized,  I did not realize this.  This might be a good place for 316 stainless or perhaps using a very thick fibreglass pipe which will of course wear over time.   

James
SV Sueno,  Maramu #220 

On Nov 20, 2017, at 10:53 AM, sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Over the years there have been several posts about the bow locker floors deteriorating due to water rotting out the plywood. I did a minor repair to mine some years ago, but other sections succumbed and I've now removed the entire floors from both lockers. 


Int




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Flexofold Prop

Patrick McAneny
 

Dean, The only reason that I am considering to go with Flexofold is the test results conducted by Yachting Monthly . You can find a link on Flexofold website . Overall they surpassed every other prop in the majority of areas tested. Only in backward thrust did they end up in the middle of the pack. Forward thrust which is far more important , they were top rated. The drag is so low it could not be measured , but that would be true for all folding props and nearly true of all feathering props as well. I am going to see if I can find any other independent  comparisons of props , but check it out and draw your own conclusion .
Pat
SM#123


-----Original Message-----
From: trifin@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Sun, Nov 26, 2017 12:26 pm
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Flexofold Prop

 
Interesting thread. 

I'm also changing out my fixed prop, but was leaning towards the Autoprop which was specified by Amel on other 54's.  Was there any compelling reason you chose flexofold over the Autoprop Patrick?

The Autoprop is priced around 2700GBP+VAT. Not sure how that compares to the flexofold?

Cheers
Dean
SY Stella
Amel 54 #154


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Bow light wiring gotcha

Mark Erdos
 

Yey! Glad it worked out.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising – St Lucia, the crime island

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2017 1:16 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Bow light wiring gotcha

 

 

Ok, so here is how it played out this morning.

 

First I tried the vacuum to try and suck through the broken 3mm cord. I taped a few cm length of 18mm water pipe to the vacuum nozzlE. This allowed me to get a seal on the hole at the underside of the rear pulpit leg.

However, no luck, so I pulled the 3mm cord back out.

 

Second, I folded up a paper clip and attached a fine 1mm cord.  Then tried to tease it through the pulpit. It took a while to get it past the right angled bend, but I managed that. It was then fairly easy to move it to the base of the pulpit leg, but it wouldn't drop through the fiobre glass deck.  So, back to the vacuum, and hey presto, sucked it through the hole in the fibre glass. Now I had a very lightweight messenger line all the way from the light to the locker.

 

Third, I connected a length of fishing wire (not monofilament), to the locker end and pulled the 1mm cord back through, bringing the fishing wire with it. Now I had a strong, thin wire as my messenger.

 

Finally, I taped the new light cable to the wire, and smeared the cable with dishwashing liquid. (The only water based lubricant I had available!). I then rigged up a small pulley arrangement for the wire so I could stand at the bow and feed the cable in, whilst pulling on the wire.  This was very useful, but obviously not needed if you have an assistant (I didn't). Getting past the righ angle corner was the trickiest part, but once past there it was simple to get the cable through.

 

My new Lopo light is now fully operational. Thanks to Mark and James for the magnet and vacuum ideas.

 

Eric, the Lopolight has an encapsulated cable attached in production, so I used this. It is circular cross section, and seems like water-block construction. Certainly the old cable looked perfect when I took it out. It was a defective light, which Lopo replaced for me.

 

I will leave the replacement of the masthead tricolour/anchor light for another time when I have an assistant to send me up the mast. 

 

Now, next job ...

 

Cheers

Dean

SY Stella

Amel 54 #154

 

 

 


Re: Flexofold Prop

rossirossix4
 

Another consideration:  On KAIMI we have a 4 BLADED VARIPROP "BLUE WATER" MODEL.  This "unboxing video" shows the shape and operation of the prop and its SIZE.  Ours is a DF112 as well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3RvbX1Oa54

After operating it for over 4 years I am sold on it.  Its reverse seems as powerful as its forward force.  Solid power in fwd or rev from a dead stop or at slow speeds.  In motoring or motorsailing it provides good, fast propulsion and during sailing very little drag.  Easy prop removal and bomb proof attachment to the shaft--see brochure.  Seems well matched to the Amel with good cruising speeds from 1600-2700, quite a bit of our cruising motoring is up and down from 2000  It will let you go above 3200 with no problem--can't remember how high it goes.  It seems to like motor sailing as well when there is lower load for a given rpm.  Works well with our shaft brakes. The German based company will immediately respond to emails or phone calls.  http://www.spw-gmbh.de/en/features-of-the-variprop.html   also  http://www.spw-gmbh.de/en/variprop-2-3-and-4-blade.html

2 Years in the water (boat is presently on the hard) and no need to change the prop nose cone zinc (or our rudder zincs), perhaps due to a galvanic isolator.

A video on their site is informative https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=22&v=-CqLFaM3qvc  If you look at the design in action you can see why it is powerful in both fwd and rev, why it has a lot of blade and why it has low drag when feathered.


Variprop propaganda--

"4-Blade-Power — the VARIPROP 'Blue Water'
Especially in blue water conditions, excessive blade loading causes cavitational noises, bubbles on blades and resulting loss of power, just when you need it most in the trough.

The solution is the VARIPROP 4-Blade — to-date worlds most modern 4-blade feathering propeller, with 30% larger blade areas, less blade loading, much greater thrust and undiminished power."

They are worth a call at least I think.  They will definitely have our 2004 SM Redline on file (Yanmar).

Bob and Suzanne, Colorado
KAIMI SM 429, Malta


Re: Flexofold Prop

greatketch@...
 

I don't know the price in GB, but the US price for a MaxProp feathering prop is about the same as the price you quoted for the Autoprop at current exchange rates.  

My understanding is that an older SM can't fit an Autoprop (they were delivered with a MaxProp) because the shaft is so short the blades can hit the c-drive housing as they flop around.

The Autoprop is certainly in theory (and in their advertising) more efficient, but there is no real-world difference I have ever heard of in boat speed and engine RPM between SM's with an Autoprop and a properly pitched MaxProp at cruising speed.

Also in theory, the Autoprop is more efficient when motorsailing.  I can't speak to that, I haven't ever motorsailed for any distance, if the sails are working, I am sailing. If you do a lot of motorsailing, it might be important.

Anecdotally, the Autoprop is more sensitive to fouling which unbalances the blades and prevents them from taking the right pitch.  All props are MUCH less efficient with even very light fouling, but the Autoprop seems to load up the engine significantly rather than just slowing the boat down.  Again, that is just a summary of my take on the flavor of posts here.

If I had an Autoprop I'd certainly keep it.  If I needed a new prop, I'd likely stick with the kind of Maxprop that come with my SM (even if an Autoprop could fit!)  It is simple (no bearings), grease can be renewed underwater, and I have many years of experience with it--for what that's worth.

But if an Autoprop was significantly cheaper, I'd go that way.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL



Re: Depth of life raft locker

greatketch@...
 

Any 4 or 6 man valise pack raft will fit with plenty of depth to spare.

We put the valise raft in the bottom of that locker, supported off the bottom, just in case it gets wet, and some (hopefully!) much more often used stuff on top.  In an emergency, all that stuff is lighter than the raft, and would be hove overboard to reach the lifting straps of the raft.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Depth of life raft locker

amelforme
 

Hello Isaac’s. The life raft locker on all Amel Super Maramus has a hatch/opening that is 27 ½” long and 16” wide. The depth of the locker is 40” from the opening to the bottom. The internal length and width measurements are a few inches more in each dimension than the size of the opening under the hatch.

 

Have Fun With Your Amel!

 

Joel

Joel F. Potter/Cruising Yacht Specialist LLC

THE EXPERIENCED AMEL GUY

954 462 5869 office

954 812 2485 cell

 

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2017 10:46 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Depth of life raft locker

 

 

Hello All,

I am fairly new to the forum and very new to Amel ownership having just purchased SM #391 in FLL.  I don't have access to the boat just yet, but would like to know the depth of the port side locker so I can begin looking into a life raft replacement that will fit in that locker.

Thanks to all for this great resource!

Mark Isaac
SM #391
Ft. Lauderdale

 


Re: Flexofold Prop

Dean Gillies
 

Interesting thread. 

I'm also changing out my fixed prop, but was leaning towards the Autoprop which was specified by Amel on other 54's.  Was there any compelling reason you chose flexofold over the Autoprop Patrick?

The Autoprop is priced around 2700GBP+VAT. Not sure how that compares to the flexofold?

Cheers
Dean
SY Stella
Amel 54 #154


Re: Bow light wiring gotcha

Dean Gillies
 

Ok, so here is how it played out this morning.

First I tried the vacuum to try and suck through the broken 3mm cord. I taped a few cm length of 18mm water pipe to the vacuum nozzlE. This allowed me to get a seal on the hole at the underside of the rear pulpit leg.
However, no luck, so I pulled the 3mm cord back out.

Second, I folded up a paper clip and attached a fine 1mm cord.  Then tried to tease it through the pulpit. It took a while to get it past the right angled bend, but I managed that. It was then fairly easy to move it to the base of the pulpit leg, but it wouldn't drop through the fiobre glass deck.  So, back to the vacuum, and hey presto, sucked it through the hole in the fibre glass. Now I had a very lightweight messenger line all the way from the light to the locker.

Third, I connected a length of fishing wire (not monofilament), to the locker end and pulled the 1mm cord back through, bringing the fishing wire with it. Now I had a strong, thin wire as my messenger.

Finally, I taped the new light cable to the wire, and smeared the cable with dishwashing liquid. (The only water based lubricant I had available!). I then rigged up a small pulley arrangement for the wire so I could stand at the bow and feed the cable in, whilst pulling on the wire.  This was very useful, but obviously not needed if you have an assistant (I didn't). Getting past the righ angle corner was the trickiest part, but once past there it was simple to get the cable through.

My new Lopo light is now fully operational. Thanks to Mark and James for the magnet and vacuum ideas.

Eric, the Lopolight has an encapsulated cable attached in production, so I used this. It is circular cross section, and seems like water-block construction. Certainly the old cable looked perfect when I took it out. It was a defective light, which Lopo replaced for me.

I will leave the replacement of the masthead tricolour/anchor light for another time when I have an assistant to send me up the mast. 

Now, next job ...

Cheers
Dean
SY Stella
Amel 54 #154




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Depth of life raft locker

Jean-Pierre's MacBook Air <jgermain@...>
 

Sent you a photo Isaac.

Cheers,


On 26 Nov 2017, at 10:45, isaac_02906@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Hello All,

I am fairly new to the forum and very new to Amel ownership having just purchased SM #391 in FLL.  I don't have access to the boat just yet, but would like to know the depth of the port side locker so I can begin looking into a life raft replacement that will fit in that locker.

Thanks to all for this great resource!

Mark Isaac
SM #391
Ft. Lauderdale





Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Depth of life raft locker

Jean-Pierre's MacBook Air <jgermain@...>
 

Hi Mark,

Welcome aboard.

As a suggestion only… I modified the port rail to accept a Hard cased life raft.  Took the design from the Amel 54. This decision came after I tried to lift out the LR from its storage; I guarantee you cannot lift it out .. well perhaps Schwartzie could do it.

You have to rig a halyard to the main boom and you winch… a whole lot of faffing about as your boat disappears from under your feet.

In my case, I simply release the LR from its holder.

Just a thought.

Jean-Pierre Germain
SY Eleuthera, SM007
Panama.

On 26 Nov 2017, at 10:45, isaac_02906@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Hello All,

I am fairly new to the forum and very new to Amel ownership having just purchased SM #391 in FLL.  I don't have access to the boat just yet, but would like to know the depth of the port side locker so I can begin looking into a life raft replacement that will fit in that locker.

Thanks to all for this great resource!

Mark Isaac
SM #391
Ft. Lauderdale





Depth of life raft locker

Mark Isaac
 

Hello All,

I am fairly new to the forum and very new to Amel ownership having just purchased SM #391 in FLL.  I don't have access to the boat just yet, but would like to know the depth of the port side locker so I can begin looking into a life raft replacement that will fit in that locker.

Thanks to all for this great resource!

Mark Isaac
SM #391
Ft. Lauderdale



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Caribbean Cruising Guides and Charts

Courtney Gorman
 

Thanks for the heads up Jeff Much appreciated!


-----Original Message-----
From: JEFFREY KRAUS jmkraus@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Sun, Nov 26, 2017 8:13 am
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Caribbean Cruising Guides and Charts

 
Courtney,
Just a heads up.
I think you were the one heading to Marina Pescaderia, correct? 
If so, just be aware that the bouys marking the entrance are gone. While the opening into the bay appears wide, there is a channel there to get in. It is where the charts show it to be, but please use your sea judgement. I poked through slowly watching where there was some wave action peaking up to let me know where the shallower waters were. It's NOT a large gap.
Jeff Spirit Amel 54 #14


On Wed, Nov 22, 2017 at 11:43 AM, Courtney Gorman Itsfun1@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 
Hi all I am looking for recommendations on Caribbean Cruising guides and Charts, would appreciate any and All advice
Thanks
Courtney
54 Trippin'
Brunswick




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow locker and hawse pipe deterioration

Craig Briggs
 

Right James, I was simply responding to your earlier statement that, " (you) would look at this from the standpoint of spanning the entire distance between the two sides of the boat", which, of course, can't be done with one piece and one needs a joint.
Cheers, Craig


---In amelyachtowners@..., <lokiyawl2@...> wrote :

Craig,
   There is no need to install the floor panels as one piece.  If you are using plywood, just fasten and epoxy a butt block to the bottom of the joint.  If you use plywood for the butt that is perhaps 25 percent thicker than the floor panel and overlap by 8x the panel thickness plus good fasteners and epoxy your jointed panel will be as strong as a full panel.  If doing the solid glass panels, you can use a thinner fiberglass butt to join your panels and then scarf back the edges of each panel about 8x the thickness and glass the two pcs. Together, again as strong as a solid panel if done well.  If you add any athwartships stiffeners, they could go in full length before the panels were installed which is what I will do if I go with a solid glass panel.  With care perhaps I will never need to replace the original panels which are now 30  years old.
  Best of luck with the pvc pipe, it should be ok if nothing extrodinary happens.  I think I will either use stainless pipe or a very heavy wall fiberglass pipe with a replaceable liner.

Best,
James  SV Sueno, Maramu #220


Sent from Samsung Mobile



-------- Original message --------
From: "sangaris@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Date: 11-25-2017 12:29 PM (GMT-04:00)
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow locker and hawse pipe deterioration


 

Thanks, again, James.


While the original floor did span the entire hull width, it was most certainly installed before the deck went on. One could not now fit a full spanning replacement piece for repair and constructing one in situ would be a bear. So, while the floor does stiffen the hull, I'm comfortable tying in two sections to the original tabbing.

Yes, it was surprising to find the original floor unfinished on the bottom - the top was gelcoated and well sealed from moisture.  It was clearly the original factory installed piece. The tabbing was only on the top. Similarly, the front of the bow thruster box was also unfinished except for the corners where there's frp tabbing over the joint. This plywood is starting to delaminate and repairing it is really critical, before it totally rots out.

Finally, while the original steel pipe may have added some support to the deck, I think the vertical bulkhead between the lockers, which is tabbed into the bow thruster box is doing that work. That is, any force on the pipe would be totally transferred to the floor and thus to the vertical bulkhead and the bow thruster box. I'm comfortable with using Schedule 80 PVC pipe as the replacement and it will be bonded to the underside of the deck and the floor with the original tabbing the steel pipe had - it's only about 18" long and will be very strong in both compression and tension.

Craig SN68

---In amelyachtowners@..., <lokiyawl2@...> wrote :

Craig,

   Thanks for the interesting discussion.    3/8” of solid glass will easily span 16” with adequate stiffness and in fact is probably  overkill.  On the other hand I would look at this from the standpoint of spanning the entire distance between the two sides of the boat rather than relying on the fore aft center panel and the deck to effectively support the floor.  I still think that this might require a method to stiffen the floor panel some.  It would be interesting to know the details of the engineering for sure but the design of the lockers and the positions of the panels suggests to me that these panels add quite a bit of strength and rigidity to the hull an deck in bow area.  The center partition panel for instance I believe would see some of the windlass and forestay loads while the locker floor would stiffen the hull quite a bit.  In other words, if I find the need to rebuild my forward lockers I will be sure to completely restore the original strength and stiffness and probably a bit more just to be sure that the boat has not been weakened at all.

    I am surprised that the plywood forming the floor of your lockers was not glassed over even on the top side of the panel?  Is  there any chance that the floor had been replaced before you bought the boat?  The floor on my Maramu is glassed on both sides though the glass on the bottom stops at the edge of the plywood leaving a gap at the hull since it would have been almost impossible to cover that joint from the bottom.  I have seen other Maramus where the bottom of the floor panel as viewed from inside the chain locker was not glassed so it is curious as to why the construction is different.     If you only have 20 square feet in the locker floor panels then the weight is certainly not going to be an issue but I think that it will be a little heavier than you thought.  I am getting about 60 lbs. for the floor panel in solid glass based on your 20 square foot estimate:  20 square feet x .375 = 7.5”/12 = .625 x 96  = 60 lbs.   You will also be removing the old plywood so the actual increase in weight would be less than that.  For sure with the all fibreglass panels you will never have to worry about the floor rotting again.  
   You are correct,  a 3/8” 4' x 8’ sheet of fir plywood would weigh in the neighbourhood of 36 pounds and so would a 12” x 12” x 12” block of Fir since other than the glue both of these are essentially the same thing. (grin)  The 12” x 12” x 12” solid block of fibreglass would be around 96 lbs. so about 3X the density.  

   I do wonder if the steel pipe originally installed by Amel as the chain pipe might be needed from a structural standpoint as a compression member between the floor of the lockers and the deck in certain circumstances.  An anchor launched in deep water running out fairly quickly and a ball/loop of chain jamming in the chain locker under the locker floor for instance cut put quite a bit of upward force on the locker floor.  A strong compression member could carry that stress to the deck which should be quite a bit stronger than just the 3/8” fibreglass floor… Henri might have had that concern in mind when the steel pipe was specified but I am only guessing.  So while I might upgrade some materials when making repairs such as using stainless pipe instead of the original steel, I personally would be a little uncomfortable reducing the strength as compared to the original design.

 Best of luck with your project.  

James
SV Suneo,  Maramu #220

   
On Nov 21, 2017, at 10:51 AM, sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Thanks again, James,

Interestingly, the original construction was not fiberglassed plywood. It was just plywood with fiberglass tabbing around the edges to the hull and then finished on top with gelcoat over both the tabbing and the unfinished plywood. The underside was not finished. 

I should think a thickness of about 3/8" would be sufficient since the width being spanned runs from 2-3 inches to only about 16" maximum.  If I'm not mistaken 3/8 plywood is only about 1 pound per square foot, say roughly 36 pounds for a full 4' X 8' sheet (I think that's the 36 lbs you noted).  In any event there's only about 20 square feet total, so the total weight will only be 25 to 30 pounds - and similar to what I removed. Plus all our stern-heavy Amels need some extra weight up front, anyway :-)  

Regarding the hawse pipe support, I was able to retain the original fiberglass support structures (fillets) on the underside of the deck and on the floor by cutting and peeling out the pipe in small pieces.  This will give excellent support to the new pipe akin to the original.

Cheers, Craig


---In amelyachtowners@..., <lokiyawl2@...> wrote :

Craig,

   Solid fiberglass weighs in around 96 lbs. per square foot versus for instance fir plywood at 36 lbs. per square foot so it is likely that you will add some weight by going with all fibreglass panels to reach the desired stiffness but that would certainly solve the rot concerns permanently.  There are bulking fabrics such as fab matt to build thickness with less weight but I have seen so many failures with those products that I would avoid them myself.  I would think that you could reach the desired stiffness with a total panel thickness that was  thinner than the wood plus fibreglass original so the weight increase should not be as much 3X.  You could add solid fibreglass ribs to the bottom of your panels get the desired stiffness with a lighter weight as compared to a plain panel and I don’t think the ribs would interfere in anyway.  If the panels in my boat rot out at some point, I would certainly consider a similar solution since the anchor locker is going to be a tough place for wood due to the ongoing humidity and dampness.  

    Your idea of using the conduit is interesting as it would never corrode.  I wonder if it would be strong enough by itself and how to secure the ends so that it could never move?  Some kind of a plastic replaceable liner inside of a heavy fibreglass pipe glassed at both ends sounds interesting and permanent.

Best,

James
SV Sueno,  Maramu #220


On Nov 20, 2017, at 4:25 PM, sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Thanks, James, for your good input.  


I'm thinking of using Heavy Wall Schedule 80 PVC electrical conduit for the new hawse pipe - easy to work with and should last longer than I. 
May just lay up fiberglass panels for the bottoms.

Craig SN#68


---In amelyachtowners@..., <lokiyawl2@...> wrote :

Craig,

   Good information.  Just note that plywood panels can definitely rot out if glassed on the top and bottom.  Just think of all of the rotten plywood core decks,  transoms in power boats etc.  If you can however exclude the water from the wood completely or keep the moisture content of the wood below a critical level it will never rot.  Epoxy resin will do a better job of excluding moisture than polyester.  The edge of the plywood panel where the end grain of the wood is needs to be very well sealed since moisture will travel the fastest through the end grain.  Any holes in the panel need to have a ring of epoxy around the hole to prevent any moisture entering the panel, caulking isn’t enough IMO.  A Marine plywood panel should have a waterproof glue but you can buy panels that vary greatly in durability based on the wood species selected.   Wood boats can last a very long time  (one boat that I maintain is 109 years old and the planking is almost all original and solid)  even though they remain wet for most of there lives.  Using durable woods and providing good ventilation are the key points.  For the bow lockers I would suggest selecting a species in the “durable” category such as Fir or Sapele.  Be sure that the panel is solid core with no voids and that the inner plys are of the same species/durability rating.   If the locker contains air that is saturated (near or at 100% humidity due to a lack of venting and water being in the locker) any exposed wood will tend to take on moisture and cannot ever dry.  Opening the locker lids on a nice day or providing some kind of ventilation can help lower the humidity levels in the lockers and thereby extend the life of the original or replacement panels.   

    Thanks for the information about the chain pipe being galvanized,  I did not realize this.  This might be a good place for 316 stainless or perhaps using a very thick fibreglass pipe which will of course wear over time.   

James
SV Sueno,  Maramu #220 

On Nov 20, 2017, at 10:53 AM, sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Over the years there have been several posts about the bow locker floors deteriorating due to water rotting out the plywood. I did a minor repair to mine some years ago, but other sections succumbed and I've now removed the entire floors from both lockers. 


Int


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Flexofold Prop

Patrick McAneny
 

Bill, I appreciate your assessment , and I am sure you are correct in that the small difference between most of the props would not add up to much.
Thanks,
Pat


-----Original Message-----
From: greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Sun, Nov 26, 2017 12:42 am
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Flexofold Prop

 
Pat,

I have limited experience with Flexofold props.  They were on saildrives on a catamaran in a fleet I maintained.  They worked... but had a very curious tendency to fall off!  We could never figure out why.  I think it was a saildrive thing rather than prop related, but when the owner changed to fixed props, they never fell off again....

 Like all folding props they had poor response in reverse.  They needed a LOT of RPM to really unfold and give decent thrust.  I don't think it would be an issue on an Amel, you would just give more throttle than you are used to, but when trying to prop steer a cat, it gave a very unequal response between the forward and reverse props that took a lot of getting used to

If I was you, I wouldn't sharpen my pencil too much in the analysis of the differences between various folding/feathering props.  In the real world the very minor differences between them can vary quite a bit between different boats. By way of example, when Yachting Monthly did their testing they said that a MaxProp had MORE prop walk than a fixed prop.  One the one boat I drove with a fixed and then a maxprop and that was absolutely NOT true.

The drag differences are so small they are truly trivial, and hiding partially behind the keel like they do on an Amel, that difference would be even smaller. The other parameters vary a lot from one installation to another.  Not suggesting that there is anything wrong with your choice just that it would be hard to make a BAD choice--they are all going to be WAY better sailing than a fixed prop.

My 2 cents worth...

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Caribbean Cruising Guides and Charts

JEFFREY KRAUS