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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Tonnage
greatketch@...
Do not assume that the "tons" shown on your documentation certificate has anything to do with the vessel's weight.
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It is an archaic calculation that is an estimate of the boat's cargo carrying capacity based on its volume. On US certificates it is calculated from the boat’s width, height, and length. Because, you know many of us haul freight with our Amel’s and the government needs to be sure it gets its duties collected accurately. Or something. Some countries use a rough approximate calculation (like the USA and the UK) others take this to the silly limit and require an exact calculation of the internal volume from a lines drawing of the hull. The whole concept is rather a waste to time and energy for a yacht, but rules is rules! Bill Kinney SM160, Harmonie Fort Lauderdale, FL ---In amelyachtowners@..., <simms@...> wrote : Follow on from my previous. That is way more than Amel specs. Sent from my Vodafone Smart
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Solar Panel Location
Mark Isaac
Hello All,
I am considering adding solar to our SM and would like to know where members of the group have placed their panels and how they feel about their choice. Ours does not currently have an arch, but we are willing to add one should that be the best location. It looks like at least a few in the group have nice, clean installations using Atlantic Towers, and any feedback about their product and working with them would be appreciated. Mark SM #391 Ft. Lauderdale
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Tonnage
Ian Park
Figures for a Santorin are -
Part 1 brass registration plate on board says 15 13/100 tons Registration certificate says Gross Tonnage 18.11 and Registered tonnage 15.13 The original AMEL brochure says Displacement loaded 22,045 lbs and total weight empty 18,738 lbs, ballast 8,156lbs. When hauled out in UK by crane we registered a shade over 15 tons (British). Confirm previous comments that Part 1 registration refers to an ancient measurement of predicted volume. If anyone fancies doing the math between all these figures - enjoy! Ian Ocean Hobo SN96
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Tonnage
Dear Andy
The British Registry allows the use of a simple approximate formula, which is not recognized by the Danish Registry. Thanks anyway Jeppe
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Tonnage
Andy Buxford
If you're on the Part 1 registry then these weights were recorded when
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your boat was surveyed. • https://ydsa.co.uk/registration/how-do-i-arrange-a-measurement/ • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonnage On Tue, Nov 28, 2017 at 8:21 PM, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@rocketmail.com [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Tonnage
Rédouan Assar <red1assar@...>
I am sure they have the linesplan. At least try to get scaled regular sections from them, I will dig out my old books and see what can be done.
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Redouan
On 29 Nov 2017, at 11:58, jej@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Tonnage
Dear Rédouan
Thanks, sounds easy, if you know what you are doing. My SM is currently in the water and winterized for the winter. I hope Amel can help me with calculations or line-drawings. Thanks again Kind Regards Jeppe, SM464
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Tonnage
Rédouan Assar <red1assar@...>
Once your boat is out of the water it is relatively easy to make the linesplan with a theodolite. You then plot them and interpolate the volume between areas of each cross section. If you have a software like AutoCAD it would be even simpler.
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It is a nice winter evening project to do if you have the boat out of the water. I shall be back to the boat in January and if I can get hold of a theodolite in Portimao, I might do it just to bring my naval architect spirit back and get the SM linesplan! Redouan
On 29 Nov 2017, at 10:58, jej@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Tonnage
Dear Redouan
You are absolutely right. The International Tonnage Certificate is a virtual measure based on the volume of the ship. And yes it is expensive to get the measurer to make the line-drawings again and calculate the volume that is one of the basic parameteres of the tonnage calculation. I will try my luck with at Amel, if there is no Irish or Swedish registered SM with the needed numbers or calculations or line-drawings. Thanks for your answer. Kind Regards Jeppe, SM464 _/_/)
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Tonnage
Rédouan Assar <red1assar@...>
Hello,
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From my humble experience with tonnage calculations when designing and registering fishing vessels I believe the tonnage is linked to the volume of the boat, not its weight and is referring to ancient cargoes of barils or ‘tonneau’ in french. I recommend that you ask amel as they can easily give you this from the linesplan or you need to spend some time out of the water with a theodolite and pick up the hull lines to calculate the volume. You then use the class formulae to get the tonnage value required by your specific country of registry. It is interesting that it is required for Sailing boat of this size, usually in Europe it is for commercial vessels above 24m, hence many fishermen asking for 23.95m boats! Redouan
On 29 Nov 2017, at 08:42, seagasm@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Tonnage
Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
That's why I asked if it was US tons. A tonne and an imperial ton are very close. US tons, lighter. Like US gallons. Sent from my Vodafone Smart
On 29 Nov 2017 18:42, "seagasm@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Tonnage
seagasm@...
Don't get confused with Tonnes (metric) and Tons (imperial). Tonne is an alternate spelling used to describe a metric ton. It is almost never used in American English, but it is widely used outside of the United States. Again, a tonne, also known as a metric ton, is a unit of measurement equal to 1,000 kilograms. A tonne is larger than a U.S. ton.
Best Regards Barry & Robyn Tradewinds III SM # 171
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Tonnage
Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
Follow on from my previous. That is way more than Amel specs. Sent from my Vodafone Smart
On 29 Nov 2017 18:29, "'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Tonnage
eric freedman
I am not sure, The numbers came from Amel when she was made. Fair Winds Eric Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376
From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2017 12:39 AM To: 'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Tonnage
That would be US tons? Sent from my Vodafone Smart On 29 Nov 2017 18:29, "'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
Kimberlites stated tonnage on the USA Documentation is 25 net tons and 28 gross tons. Fair Winds Eric Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376
From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Hi, On the travel lift scales Ocean Pearl is 18 tonnes loaded, if the scales are correct. Regards Danny SM 299 Ocean Pearl
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Tonnage
Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
That would be US tons? Sent from my Vodafone Smart
On 29 Nov 2017 18:29, "'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Tonnage
eric freedman
Kimberlites stated tonnage on the USA Documentation is 25 net tons and 28 gross tons. Fair Winds Eric Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376
From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 4:47 PM To: amelyachtowners@... Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Tonnage
Hi, On the travel lift scales Ocean Pearl is 18 tonnes loaded, if the scales are correct. Regards Danny SM 299 Ocean Pearl
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Carrying spare rigging ?
smiles bernard
its just dawned on me that both the terminals in the picture i uploaded would work with Peters suggested option of a wire 'tail' section and a swaged eye fitting plus some bulldog clamps or the dyneema soft shackle option Bill explained I'll double check whats aloft when i'm next onboard in a few weeks! All the best Miles
On Tuesday, November 28, 2017, 9:49:08 PM GMT, 'smilesbernard@...' smilesbernard@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:
thanks all! yes i have been wondering about the dyneema option. It does seem like a good one Peter's idea about the wire clamps is a good one - i took this setup with me last time i went long distance but it only really helps with a wire failure at deck level after crossing the atlantic in my previous old 30fter my brand new aft lower on the windward side had begun to fray but right at the swagged mast fitting to wire junction. So i could not repair it. luckily i carried old rigging spares and had a spare mast swage fitting so a local rigger could make a replacement. My current rig is from 2012 and was apparently replaced by an Amel experienced rigger in S france. I'm therefore hopeful it'll be ok for a N atlantic circuit..... the question in my mind is always the mast fitting side of things.... thats the harder part. At a push i suppose one could loop a dyneema temporary stay over the opposite spreader if there was a problem with the lower shrouds or attach it to a cotterpin at the mast head? thanks for all the thoughts - very much appreciated btw i found these spares onboard - my lower shroud mast terminals look like the cup and ball fitting on the right of the attached photo which is new to me. I might see if there are any staylok etc options . . . . I presume the fitting on the left will make sense once i have climbed to the mast head! Thanks all! Fair winds Miles
On Tuesday, November 28, 2017, 4:47:09 PM GMT, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:
Miles, Dyneema is the way to go for emergency replacement rigging. It is stronger than you need, you can carry 100 feet of it in a tiny little space (Unlike wire!) It doesn't care if it sits in water or even oil. Just throw it in the bilge and forget about it until you need it. It is ridiculously easy to splice, and it is way stronger than you need. You do need to do some thinking ahead of time about how you would attach it to the mast, spreaders, and chainplates but you can do some very creative things with homemade soft shackles. It is very rare that a rigging wire fails in the run of the wire, it almost always the terminal hardware that fails so you can not count on having that to attach to. Size the dyneema not based on strength (that would be too stretchy) but rather on (approximately) matching the stretch of the SS wire it is replacing. A rough rule of thumb is two times the diameter of the stainless wire. These guys have a lot of fittings and know-how on dyneema rigging: http://www.colligomarine.com My old boat (a 40 foot cruising ketch) actually had an all dyneema rig. People laughed, it is supposed to be a race boat thing, but getting rid of several hundred pounds of weight up high in the rig made a huge difference in the boat's performance to windward. I am not sure what you mean when you write, "aft lowers seem to take a lot of working on ocean crossings." If you can see them moving around (working?) then they are MUCH too loose. In a properly tuned rig some of the tension will come off the leeward wires in a stiff breeze, but if they get loose enough they are moving around, that's a problem. Bill Kinney SM160, Harmonie Fort Lauderdale, FL ---In amelyachtowners@..., <smilesbernard@...> wrote : Hello there I'd value this groups thoughts on carrying spare rigging on long journeys - to allow for repairs on passage or in remote locations. What supplies do you carry ? My 1985 isomat masted (single spreader) maramu is pretty new to me and I've yet to see the masthead and the rigging terminals up there but the aft lowers have a ball and cup system that then locates into he spreader -to- mast attachment. In my experience aft lowers seem to take a lot of working on ocean crossings I was going to see about sourcing a spare to allow basic at sea repairs. Anyway it'd be great to hear people's approach! I wonder people dyneema based options for a 'get me home' jury rig and any mast / turnbuckle attachments these require? All the best Miles Maramu 1985
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Quantity and Type of Primary Rode
Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
Hi Mark, on our primary anchor we have 100 meters of 10 mm chain plus spliced to it a further 100 meters of nylon anchor rode, I think 25mm. To achieve a splice that goes through the entry to the hause pipe I had to splice into two chain links. In deeper water or strong winds it is not unusual to utilise all the chain and some nylon. Our second anchor (stowed in the port forward deck locker) we have 50 meters of 10 mm chain and 80 meters of nylon anchor rode. In addition we have a significant length of 20 mm nylon rode attached to our sea anchor which can be utilised. Regards Danny SM 299 Ocean Pearl
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Tonnage
Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
Hi, On the travel lift scales Ocean Pearl is 18 tonnes loaded, if the scales are correct. Regards Danny SM 299 Ocean Pearl
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Carrying spare rigging ?
smiles bernard
thanks all! yes i have been wondering about the dyneema option. It does seem like a good one Peter's idea about the wire clamps is a good one - i took this setup with me last time i went long distance but it only really helps with a wire failure at deck level after crossing the atlantic in my previous old 30fter my brand new aft lower on the windward side had begun to fray but right at the swagged mast fitting to wire junction. So i could not repair it. luckily i carried old rigging spares and had a spare mast swage fitting so a local rigger could make a replacement. My current rig is from 2012 and was apparently replaced by an Amel experienced rigger in S france. I'm therefore hopeful it'll be ok for a N atlantic circuit..... the question in my mind is always the mast fitting side of things.... thats the harder part. At a push i suppose one could loop a dyneema temporary stay over the opposite spreader if there was a problem with the lower shrouds or attach it to a cotterpin at the mast head? thanks for all the thoughts - very much appreciated btw i found these spares onboard - my lower shroud mast terminals look like the cup and ball fitting on the right of the attached photo which is new to me. I might see if there are any staylok etc options . . . . I presume the fitting on the left will make sense once i have climbed to the mast head! Thanks all! Fair winds Miles
On Tuesday, November 28, 2017, 4:47:09 PM GMT, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:
Miles, Dyneema is the way to go for emergency replacement rigging. It is stronger than you need, you can carry 100 feet of it in a tiny little space (Unlike wire!) It doesn't care if it sits in water or even oil. Just throw it in the bilge and forget about it until you need it. It is ridiculously easy to splice, and it is way stronger than you need. You do need to do some thinking ahead of time about how you would attach it to the mast, spreaders, and chainplates but you can do some very creative things with homemade soft shackles. It is very rare that a rigging wire fails in the run of the wire, it almost always the terminal hardware that fails so you can not count on having that to attach to. Size the dyneema not based on strength (that would be too stretchy) but rather on (approximately) matching the stretch of the SS wire it is replacing. A rough rule of thumb is two times the diameter of the stainless wire. These guys have a lot of fittings and know-how on dyneema rigging: http://www.colligomarine.com My old boat (a 40 foot cruising ketch) actually had an all dyneema rig. People laughed, it is supposed to be a race boat thing, but getting rid of several hundred pounds of weight up high in the rig made a huge difference in the boat's performance to windward. I am not sure what you mean when you write, "aft lowers seem to take a lot of working on ocean crossings." If you can see them moving around (working?) then they are MUCH too loose. In a properly tuned rig some of the tension will come off the leeward wires in a stiff breeze, but if they get loose enough they are moving around, that's a problem. Bill Kinney SM160, Harmonie Fort Lauderdale, FL ---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote : Hello there I'd value this groups thoughts on carrying spare rigging on long journeys - to allow for repairs on passage or in remote locations. What supplies do you carry ? My 1985 isomat masted (single spreader) maramu is pretty new to me and I've yet to see the masthead and the rigging terminals up there but the aft lowers have a ball and cup system that then locates into he spreader -to- mast attachment. In my experience aft lowers seem to take a lot of working on ocean crossings I was going to see about sourcing a spare to allow basic at sea repairs. Anyway it'd be great to hear people's approach! I wonder people dyneema based options for a 'get me home' jury rig and any mast / turnbuckle attachments these require? All the best Miles Maramu 1985
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