Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Diaphragm Bilge Pump failure.

greatketch@...
 

James,

Your offer of testing a Sealand pump in an Amel bilge is fun and fascinating. Unfortunetly we'll be headed to the Bahamas before such fun could be had!

Yes, the Rule can pump 27 feet up, but at zero flow rate.  Also, the head required to actually move water is more than just the lift height.  The piping resistance is the larger and usually more significant contributor.  

(Note, I am a chemical engineer, and for a time pumps and pump selection was an important part of my world.  So I'll likely subject the good members of this forum to way more detail than they need...)

I did a quick and dirty calculation of flow rate for the following system:

10 feet of smooth bore 1.5" hose, two elbows, a total of 4 feet of vertical lift. I calculate such a system would require a pump discharge head of about 6.7 feet at 1000GPH.  Pretty close to a Rule 4000 pump curve.  (Details available on request for you masochists out there...)  2 inch hose would be better, but you get the idea...


Bill Kinney
SM160,  Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL


Re: Battery Charger Options

greatketch@...
 

Alan,

We are (relatively) new owners of a Victron MultiPlus 24/3000/70 charger/inverter.  After 4 months, I obviously can't speak to long term reliability, but the performance and feature set are exceptional.  It is much more sophisticated than the Xantrax unit it replaced and much more precise at voltage control while charging.

One of the reasons we chose this unit was that we can use the optional USC interface and connect a computer to fully program each of the parameters. This lets us match the performance of both the inverter and the charger to our battery system and have it manage the AC system exactly as we want.

For a stand-alone charger, I think you'll be happy with the Centaur.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Diaphragm Bilge Pump failure.

VLADIMIR SONSEV
 

 Offshore racing council required two electrical and two manual bilge pumps. One manual pump must be down below.
Just for your information.

Vladimir
SM "Life is Good"

On Dec 2, 2017 13:58, "greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

I had a boss once whose favorite line was, "Show me the data." I learned a lot from him...  

Ratings are all fine and good, but the real world can always change things. So I just timed how long it took my Amel original diaphragm pump to move 12 liters of water: 42 seconds. A flow rate of: 17 liters per minute (or 4.5GPM)  I have read the "32 l/min" number several times, but don't know its original source.

Whenever I see someone write down a number and proclaim that "this is the minimum capacity for a bilge pump for this boat" I wonder how they came up with that number.  

I think of bilge pumps in two categories:  Dewatering and emergency.  

Dewatering is just the normal day to day emptying of the bilge.  On most boats that would include shaft drip, rain water leaks, etc.  We don't have those, so for us it is just the routine emptying of gray water from the sump.   The primary pump selection issue here is not about capacity, but rather picking a pump that will not choke on any lumpy bits from the galley sink.  Given that requirement, we do not have a lot of options. 

An emergency bilge pump is another matter. Any hole in the hull below the water line will overwhelm most bilge pumps.  8gpm is a good number for a 1/2 inch hole, and the flow rate rises with the square of the diameter... so a 1 inch hole would be 24gpm, and a 2 inch hole pushes 100gpm.  That's a LOT.

A boat like an Amel with watertight bulkheads has an extra issue.  Any hole outside the engine room can not drain to the bilge anywhere near as fast as water comes in from the ocean.  So the size of the pump in the sump doesn't matter.

My own personnel takeaway is that a bilge pump that could actually keep up with a significant hole in the boat (on an Amel, maybe a broken engine raw water hose?) is larger than any recommendation I have seen, and borders on impractical.  If you have a hole in the boat too big to plug with your thumb, and you can't stop it, you are sinking--eventually. (Watertight bulkheads aside, of course!)

Ratings on centrifugal bilge pumps are a pretty sad joke. They are all rated at Zero head, and that's just plain goofy. Most of them don't even supply a curve of output flow vs head, and even if they did most people would not know how to interpret it ("pressure head" is much more complex than just discharge height.)  In a real world installation you'd be very lucky to get even 1/4 of the flow rate listed on the box.

All that is a very long winded way of saying... With all the variables and considerations I don't pretend to know what a "proper" capacity is. I do not even know what kind of logical criteria one would use to set one.  I have seen many "authorities" and committees proclaim a number, but their logic is either (arguably) flawed or not specified.

On Harmonie we have: 
  • The standard Amel installed diaphragm bilge pump,  
  • A bilge level alarm,
  • An identical spare electric pump ready to plug in as a replacement if needed, 
  • The Amel installed manual bilge pump, 
  • And a portable manual bilge pump for really serious emergencies.  
I'm comfortable with that list.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL







---In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

Bill,

   Thanks for the confirmation on the duckbills being nitrile in the Sealand pump.  I suspect that this pump would be great for pumping the sump.   What is you opinion about the capacity of this pump in regards to being the sole electric bilge pump aboard?   I am used to installing centrifugal pumps in boats this size with ratings 10X higher.  I think something as small as a 1/2” hole 4’ below the WL would flow almost 8 GPM….

James

Maramu #220 

On Dec 1, 2017, at 10:58 PM, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

The only rubber in the T-series pumps in contact with pumped water are the joker valves.  


The sealand joker valves (they call them "duckbill valves") are made of nitrile rubber, which is good for oil contact.



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Diaphragm Bilge Pump failure.

James Alton
 

Bill Kinney,

  Thanks for giving your opinion on sizing bilge pumps, along with the list of pumps that you carry.   I really like the idea of doing some testing to get some real world data before considering making any changes.

  I am curious about the Rule 4000 centrifugal pump since according to the flow chart it is supposed to be able to lift as high as 27 ft. which I think is almost 12 psi?  The pump also has a 2” discharge.  http://www.strongmanpumps.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Rule-Pump-Performance-Chart.jpg 

   My interest in this pump would be for dewatering and if installed it would be mounted well above the bottom of the sump and hopefully would never get wet.   When time permits,  I will do some of my own testing to simulate an installation in my Maramu with one of the 4000 GPH Rule pumps and will post what I find out.  I would like to see a number above 30 GPM..we will see.
 
I am aware that the centrifugal pumps are rated at 0 head and with no hose and agree that this has no bearing on real life conditions.  

One other factor that I have found which can greatly reduce the discharge of a pump more than expected is the type of house being used.  The type that is heavily corrugated internally appears to reduce the flow by about half (visual observation of the stream as opposed to actual measurement)  as compared to a smooth bore hose of similar diameter. 

  Assuming you are in Florida. I have a 12V Sealand T2 pump at my shop which is also in Florida that I would be glad to ship to you and cover the shipping on both ways if you would like to do a capacity test?  I have not checked to see if the 12V version of this pump has different specs. than the 24V?

James

SV Sueno,  Maramu #220


     

On Dec 2, 2017, at 1:58 PM, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


I had a boss once whose favorite line was, "Show me the data." I learned a lot from him...  

Ratings are all fine and good, but the real world can always change things. So I just timed how long it took my Amel original diaphragm pump to move 12 liters of water: 42 seconds. A flow rate of: 17 liters per minute (or 4.5GPM)  I have read the "32 l/min" number several times, but don't know its original source.

Whenever I see someone write down a number and proclaim that "this is the minimum capacity for a bilge pump for this boat" I wonder how they came up with that number.  

I think of bilge pumps in two categories:  Dewatering and emergency.  

Dewatering is just the normal day to day emptying of the bilge.  On most boats that would include shaft drip, rain water leaks, etc.  We don't have those, so for us it is just the routine emptying of gray water from the sump.   The primary pump selection issue here is not about capacity, but rather picking a pump that will not choke on any lumpy bits from the galley sink.  Given that requirement, we do not have a lot of options. 

An emergency bilge pump is another matter. Any hole in the hull below the water line will overwhelm most bilge pumps.  8gpm is a good number for a 1/2 inch hole, and the flow rate rises with the square of the diameter... so a 1 inch hole would be 24gpm, and a 2 inch hole pushes 100gpm.  That's a LOT.

A boat like an Amel with watertight bulkheads has an extra issue.  Any hole outside the engine room can not drain to the bilge anywhere near as fast as water comes in from the ocean.  So the size of the pump in the sump doesn't matter.

My own personnel takeaway is that a bilge pump that could actually keep up with a significant hole in the boat (on an Amel, maybe a broken engine raw water hose?) is larger than any recommendation I have seen, and borders on impractical.  If you have a hole in the boat too big to plug with your thumb, and you can't stop it, you are sinking--eventually. (Watertight bulkheads aside, of course!)

Ratings on centrifugal bilge pumps are a pretty sad joke. They are all rated at Zero head, and that's just plain goofy. Most of them don't even supply a curve of output flow vs head, and even if they did most people would not know how to interpret it ("pressure head" is much more complex than just discharge height.)  In a real world installation you'd be very lucky to get even 1/4 of the flow rate listed on the box.

All that is a very long winded way of saying... With all the variables and considerations I don't pretend to know what a "proper" capacity is. I do not even know what kind of logical criteria one would use to set one.  I have seen many "authorities" and committees proclaim a number, but their logic is either (arguably) flawed or not specified.

On Harmonie we have: 
  • The standard Amel installed diaphragm bilge pump,  
  • A bilge level alarm,
  • An identical spare electric pump ready to plug in as a replacement if needed, 
  • The Amel installed manual bilge pump, 
  • And a portable manual bilge pump for really serious emergencies.  
I'm comfortable with that list.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL







---In amelyachtowners@..., <lokiyawl2@...> wrote :

Bill,

   Thanks for the confirmation on the duckbills being nitrile in the Sealand pump.  I suspect that this pump would be great for pumping the sump.   What is you opinion about the capacity of this pump in regards to being the sole electric bilge pump aboard?   I am used to installing centrifugal pumps in boats this size with ratings 10X higher.  I think something as small as a 1/2” hole 4’ below the WL would flow almost 8 GPM….

James

Maramu #220 

On Dec 1, 2017, at 10:58 PM, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

The only rubber in the T-series pumps in contact with pumped water are the joker valves.  


The sealand joker valves (they call them "duckbill valves") are made of nitrile rubber, which is good for oil contact.





Re: Bow Thuster Control Box

Craig Briggs
 

Don't know if newer control boxes/boards are different, but on my SN (1992 #68) the board is pretty simple and I could easily spot the fried segments of printed conductor and simply soldered wire jumpers between the endpoint nodes. That was many years ago and it's worked perfectly since.
Craig


---In amelyachtowners@..., <johnhayes862@...> wrote :

Hi Chuck

Count me in

My Santorin is 1991 vintage

John Hayes 
Nga Waka
Wellington 
New Zealand


On 3/12/2017, at 9:21 AM, Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Does the same box exist on the 54!

If so count me in too. 
Thanks!
Porter
54-152
S/V Ibis
Ragged Islands, Bahamas

Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 

On Dec 2, 2017, at 1:38 PM, 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

I’m not sure I have the same box but if I do, I’d like to keep a spare since they are now unavailable.

Can someone post a picture of what we are talking about, please.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising – St. Lucia, the crime island

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, December 2, 2017 1:33 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Bow Thuster Control Box

 

 

I too would join in a group order for a spare bow thruster control box.  

 

Derick Gates

SM2K#400

Brava

Currently on the hard in Bailey's boatyard, Falmouth Harbour, Antigua


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Charcoal Filter

VLADIMIR SONSEV
 



On Dec 3, 2017 07:49, "Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Good morning Duane,

I won’t answer your question, but just share my experience.

I had a carbon filter “after” the fresh water pump for the same reason - I wish I had been able to put it after the “flushing” valve, as all the water had chlorine removed instead of only the one going to the water maker.

I also had a sediment filter “before” the fresh water pump, this was to reduce the maintenance/cleaning on the fresh water pump.
It work well, but the water pressure considerably decreased and I had to lower the setting on the D-Square/Pressure Plate significantly running on house power (was never a problem on shore power).

Sincerely, Alexandre

--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 12/2/17, sailor63109@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...om> wrote:

Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Charcoal Filter
To: amelyachtowners@...m
Date: Saturday, December 2, 2017, 11:48 AM


 









I'm planning on adding a charcoal
filter prior to the watermaker to remove chlorine.  As long
as I'm adding it, it seems reasonable to filter all the
fresh water for the boat.
Does anyone have an idea
how much a 10" carbon block filter (like this: https://airwaterice.com/filters/10-5-micron-carbon-block.html)
would reduce the flow and pressure at the faucets in the
boat?  We have the Marco UP3 4gpm fresh water pump and it
seems to do well without the filter.  I just don't know
how much reduction in flow I'll have with the carbon
filter in line.  
I checked the flow at the
kitchen tap at 1.5gpm, but the pump was not running at full
speed so it's hard to tell what it could pump with more
head loss from the filter.  In the forward head it was at
3.0gpm.  With both the kitchen and fwd head faucet on the
flow from the galley faucet total flow was 3.2gpm.  Looking at the Flow
vs. Pressure diagram from Marco, the pump is operating
toward the high pressure side of the pump
curve.
Duane
Wanderer,
SM#477 



Hi Duane,

I have carbon filter on my watermaker suction line to reduce chlorine during a wash cycle. I use 5 micron carbon filter and I don't use a booster pump.

But you have to be very careful restricting high pressure pump suction line. You have to select carbon filter that gives you low pressure drop at maximum flow.
Too much restriction on a suction line can damage your high pressure pump.
You have to measure a vacuum on the suction line. You should not have deeper vacuum than pump specification alow at maximum flow. 
I have permanently installed a combination vacuum/Pressure gauge on the suction line. I monitor gauge readings and change filters if vacuum is deeper than in the pump spec. 

Best regards
Vladimir
S/V  "LIFE IS GOOD "


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Charcoal Filter

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Good morning Duane,

I won’t answer your question, but just share my experience.

I had a carbon filter “after” the fresh water pump for the same reason - I wish I had been able to put it after the “flushing” valve, as all the water had chlorine removed instead of only the one going to the water maker.

I also had a sediment filter “before” the fresh water pump, this was to reduce the maintenance/cleaning on the fresh water pump.
It work well, but the water pressure considerably decreased and I had to lower the setting on the D-Square/Pressure Plate significantly running on house power (was never a problem on shore power).

Sincerely, Alexandre




--------------------------------------------

On Sat, 12/2/17, sailor63109@yahoo.com [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Charcoal Filter
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, December 2, 2017, 11:48 AM


 









I'm planning on adding a charcoal
filter prior to the watermaker to remove chlorine.  As long
as I'm adding it, it seems reasonable to filter all the
fresh water for the boat.
Does anyone have an idea
how much a 10" carbon block filter (like this: https://airwaterice.com/filters/10-5-micron-carbon-block.html)
would reduce the flow and pressure at the faucets in the
boat?  We have the Marco UP3 4gpm fresh water pump and it
seems to do well without the filter.  I just don't know
how much reduction in flow I'll have with the carbon
filter in line.  
I checked the flow at the
kitchen tap at 1.5gpm, but the pump was not running at full
speed so it's hard to tell what it could pump with more
head loss from the filter.  In the forward head it was at
3.0gpm.  With both the kitchen and fwd head faucet on the
flow from the galley faucet total flow was 3.2gpm.  Looking at the Flow
vs. Pressure diagram from Marco, the pump is operating
toward the high pressure side of the pump
curve.
Duane
Wanderer,
SM#477


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Charcoal Filter

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Good morning Duane,

I won’t answer your question, but just share my experience.

I had a carbon filter “after” the fresh water pump for the same reason - I wish I had been able to put it after the “flushing” valve, as all the water had chlorine removed instead of only the one going to the water maker.

I also had a sediment filter “before” the fresh water pump, this was to reduce the maintenance/cleaning on the fresh water pump.
It work well, but the water pressure considerably decreased and I had to lower the setting on the D-Square/Pressure Plate significantly running on house power (was never a problem on shore power).

Sincerely, Alexandre




--------------------------------------------

On Sat, 12/2/17, sailor63109@yahoo.com [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Charcoal Filter
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, December 2, 2017, 11:48 AM


 









I'm planning on adding a charcoal
filter prior to the watermaker to remove chlorine.  As long
as I'm adding it, it seems reasonable to filter all the
fresh water for the boat.
Does anyone have an idea
how much a 10" carbon block filter (like this: https://airwaterice.com/filters/10-5-micron-carbon-block.html)
would reduce the flow and pressure at the faucets in the
boat?  We have the Marco UP3 4gpm fresh water pump and it
seems to do well without the filter.  I just don't know
how much reduction in flow I'll have with the carbon
filter in line.  
I checked the flow at the
kitchen tap at 1.5gpm, but the pump was not running at full
speed so it's hard to tell what it could pump with more
head loss from the filter.  In the forward head it was at
3.0gpm.  With both the kitchen and fwd head faucet on the
flow from the galley faucet total flow was 3.2gpm.  Looking at the Flow
vs. Pressure diagram from Marco, the pump is operating
toward the high pressure side of the pump
curve.
Duane
Wanderer,
SM#477


Re: Battery Charger Options

Alan Leslie
 

We have a Victron Skyllar 24/100 for 3 Years now, very happy with it
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Re: Solar Panel Location

sjeukendrup@...
 


4 off standard size solar panels 200 watt each + MPPT regulator TRISTAR 24 / 60 AMP generate 8A at 24V.

 Best regards, Stefan Jeukendrup


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] can't open saloon floor panels

Ryan Meador
 

That's an interesting theory. The water temperature is about 50 degrees right now. I'll give your idea a test.

Thanks,
Ryan

On Dec 2, 2017 7:08 PM, "James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Ryan,


   If the boat is currently in cold Boston waters, it is possible that the heated air (with a higher relative humidity) is condensing on the colder panels and soaking in, thereby swelling the wood.   You might try removing one panel, placing it in a relatively high location so that it will see the higher temperatures/lower relative humidity and see if it returns to a size that fits the location.  If the test panel fits after drying for a few days, then you have your answer.  

Best,

James

SV Sueno 
Maramu #220

On Dec 2, 2017, at 7:05 PM, Ryan Meador ryan.d.meador@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


There aren't any hinges; all of the panels lift out.

I also just this evening realized that the panel outboard of the table is stuck too, but the ones directly beneath the table are easy to open.

Thanks,
Ryan
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA



On Dec 2, 2017 12:34 PM, "Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Hi Ryan,

Have you checked the hinges,

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

On 02 December 2017 at 11:51 "Ryan Meador ryan.d.meador@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...om> wrote:

 

 

Hi all,
My SM has the wooden floor panels, not the blue ones.  A while after I bought the boat in the beginning of August, I noticed the smoothly-opening floor panels that run the length of the saloon were taking some effort to open.  I chalked it up to humidity.  But it's been getting worse, to the point where I now need to use a tool to grab onto the holes to lift them as my fingers aren't strong enough.  None of the other floor panels on the boat are affected.  My hygrometer has been reading 45-55% for the last few weeks (since I started paying attention) so even if it was humidity, I would have expected them to dry out again by now.  The temperature has dropped a bit, but I've been keeping the boat heated.  The panels are properly aligned with the rubber stripes in the floor.  Any idea what has happened?  I'd rather not shave them down without understanding it.

Thanks,
Ryan
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA

 


 






Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] can't open saloon floor panels

James Alton
 

Ryan,

   If the boat is currently in cold Boston waters, it is possible that the heated air (with a higher relative humidity) is condensing on the colder panels and soaking in, thereby swelling the wood.   You might try removing one panel, placing it in a relatively high location so that it will see the higher temperatures/lower relative humidity and see if it returns to a size that fits the location.  If the test panel fits after drying for a few days, then you have your answer.  

Best,

James

SV Sueno 
Maramu #220

On Dec 2, 2017, at 7:05 PM, Ryan Meador ryan.d.meador@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


There aren't any hinges; all of the panels lift out.

I also just this evening realized that the panel outboard of the table is stuck too, but the ones directly beneath the table are easy to open.

Thanks,
Ryan
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA



On Dec 2, 2017 12:34 PM, "Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Ryan,

Have you checked the hinges,

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

On 02 December 2017 at 11:51 "Ryan Meador ryan.d.meador@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

 

Hi all,
My SM has the wooden floor panels, not the blue ones.  A while after I bought the boat in the beginning of August, I noticed the smoothly-opening floor panels that run the length of the saloon were taking some effort to open.  I chalked it up to humidity.  But it's been getting worse, to the point where I now need to use a tool to grab onto the holes to lift them as my fingers aren't strong enough.  None of the other floor panels on the boat are affected.  My hygrometer has been reading 45-55% for the last few weeks (since I started paying attention) so even if it was humidity, I would have expected them to dry out again by now.  The temperature has dropped a bit, but I've been keeping the boat heated.  The panels are properly aligned with the rubber stripes in the floor.  Any idea what has happened?  I'd rather not shave them down without understanding it.

Thanks,
Ryan
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA

 


 






Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] can't open saloon floor panels

Ryan Meador
 

There aren't any hinges; all of the panels lift out.

I also just this evening realized that the panel outboard of the table is stuck too, but the ones directly beneath the table are easy to open.

Thanks,
Ryan
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA



On Dec 2, 2017 12:34 PM, "Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Ryan,

Have you checked the hinges,

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

On 02 December 2017 at 11:51 "Ryan Meador ryan.d.meador@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

 

Hi all,
My SM has the wooden floor panels, not the blue ones.  A while after I bought the boat in the beginning of August, I noticed the smoothly-opening floor panels that run the length of the saloon were taking some effort to open.  I chalked it up to humidity.  But it's been getting worse, to the point where I now need to use a tool to grab onto the holes to lift them as my fingers aren't strong enough.  None of the other floor panels on the boat are affected.  My hygrometer has been reading 45-55% for the last few weeks (since I started paying attention) so even if it was humidity, I would have expected them to dry out again by now.  The temperature has dropped a bit, but I've been keeping the boat heated.  The panels are properly aligned with the rubber stripes in the floor.  Any idea what has happened?  I'd rather not shave them down without understanding it.

Thanks,
Ryan
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA

 


 



Re: Solar Panel Location

Mark Isaac
 

Thanks to all for your input on solar panel location as well as your experience with Atlantic Towers and Emek.  Bill, I would welcome the opportunity to see your installation.  I'll be back in FLL tomorrow mid morning until Tuesday evening.  Please email me when you have a moment at isaac_zero two nine zero six at yahoo.


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Bow Thuster Control Box

JOHN HAYES
 

Hi Chuck

Count me in

My Santorin is 1991 vintage

John Hayes 
Nga Waka
Wellington 
New Zealand


On 3/12/2017, at 9:21 AM, Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Does the same box exist on the 54!

If so count me in too. 
Thanks!
Porter
54-152
S/V Ibis
Ragged Islands, Bahamas

Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 

On Dec 2, 2017, at 1:38 PM, 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

I’m not sure I have the same box but if I do, I’d like to keep a spare since they are now unavailable.

Can someone post a picture of what we are talking about, please.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising – St. Lucia, the crime island

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, December 2, 2017 1:33 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Bow Thuster Control Box

 

 

I too would join in a group order for a spare bow thruster control box.  

 

Derick Gates

SM2K#400

Brava

Currently on the hard in Bailey's boatyard, Falmouth Harbour, Antigua


Re: Charcoal Filter

Paul Osterberg
 

Duane
Do not know how much it reduce the flow, but we added a similar filter and filter all the freash water. We have not notice any problem at all with the water flow, we have a Jabsco par 5 pump.
Paul on SY Kerpa SM#259


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Bow Thuster Control Box

Porter McRoberts
 

Does the same box exist on the 54!
If so count me in too. 
Thanks!
Porter
54-152
S/V Ibis
Ragged Islands, Bahamas

Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 

On Dec 2, 2017, at 1:38 PM, 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

I’m not sure I have the same box but if I do, I’d like to keep a spare since they are now unavailable.

Can someone post a picture of what we are talking about, please.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising – St. Lucia, the crime island

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, December 2, 2017 1:33 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Bow Thuster Control Box

 

 

I too would join in a group order for a spare bow thruster control box.  

 

Derick Gates

SM2K#400

Brava

Currently on the hard in Bailey's boatyard, Falmouth Harbour, Antigua


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Diaphragm Bilge Pump failure.

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Bill,

Have to agree with you. No bilge pump of a size you could fit in a boat would deal with water coming in from a hole in the hull. Anyone who has in water swapped or removed for cleaning a through hull transducer would have any illusions about this. The volume of water gushing in from this very moderate hole is sobering. Henri's watertight bulkheads are the only sensible protection from a breach in the hull. 

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

On 03 December 2017 at 06:58 "greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

I had a boss once whose favorite line was, "Show me the data." I learned a lot from him...  

Ratings are all fine and good, but the real world can always change things. So I just timed how long it took my Amel original diaphragm pump to move 12 liters of water: 42 seconds. A flow rate of: 17 liters per minute (or 4.5GPM)  I have read the "32 l/min" number several times, but don't know its original source.

Whenever I see someone write down a number and proclaim that "this is the minimum capacity for a bilge pump for this boat" I wonder how they came up with that number.  

I think of bilge pumps in two categories:  Dewatering and emergency.  

Dewatering is just the normal day to day emptying of the bilge.  On most boats that would include shaft drip, rain water leaks, etc.  We don't have those, so for us it is just the routine emptying of gray water from the sump.   The primary pump selection issue here is not about capacity, but rather picking a pump that will not choke on any lumpy bits from the galley sink.  Given that requirement, we do not have a lot of options. 

An emergency bilge pump is another matter. Any hole in the hull below the water line will overwhelm most bilge pumps.  8gpm is a good number for a 1/2 inch hole, and the flow rate rises with the square of the diameter... so a 1 inch hole would be 24gpm, and a 2 inch hole pushes 100gpm.  That's a LOT.

A boat like an Amel with watertight bulkheads has an extra issue.  Any hole outside the engine room can not drain to the bilge anywhere near as fast as water comes in from the ocean.  So the size of the pump in the sump doesn't matter.

My own personnel takeaway is that a bilge pump that could actually keep up with a significant hole in the boat (on an Amel, maybe a broken engine raw water hose?) is larger than any recommendation I have seen, and borders on impractical.  If you have a hole in the boat too big to plug with your thumb, and you can't stop it, you are sinking--eventually. (Watertight bulkheads aside, of course!)

Ratings on centrifugal bilge pumps are a pretty sad joke. They are all rated at Zero head, and that's just plain goofy. Most of them don't even supply a curve of output flow vs head, and even if they did most people would not know how to interpret it ("pressure head" is much more complex than just discharge height.)  In a real world installation you'd be very lucky to get even 1/4 of the flow rate listed on the box.

All that is a very long winded way of saying... With all the variables and considerations I don't pretend to know what a "proper" capacity is. I do not even know what kind of logical criteria one would use to set one.  I have seen many "authorities" and committees proclaim a number, but their logic is either (arguably) flawed or not specified.

On Harmonie we have: 
  • The standard Amel installed diaphragm bilge pump,  
  • A bilge level alarm,
  • An identical spare electric pump ready to plug in as a replacement if needed, 
  • The Amel installed manual bilge pump, 
  • And a portable manual bilge pump for really serious emergencies.  
I'm comfortable with that list.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL







---In amelyachtowners@..., <lokiyawl2@...> wrote :

Bill,

   Thanks for the confirmation on the duckbills being nitrile in the Sealand pump.  I suspect that this pump would be great for pumping the sump.   What is you opinion about the capacity of this pump in regards to being the sole electric bilge pump aboard?   I am used to installing centrifugal pumps in boats this size with ratings 10X higher.  I think something as small as a 1/2” hole 4’ below the WL would flow almost 8 GPM….

James

Maramu #220 

On Dec 1, 2017, at 10:58 PM, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

The only rubber in the T-series pumps in contact with pumped water are the joker valves.  


The sealand joker valves (they call them "duckbill valves") are made of nitrile rubber, which is good for oil contact.

 

 


 


Amel 54 dishwasher failure (and solution)

Sv Garulfo
 

Of potential interest to 54-ians with a Dometic dishwasher. 

We had an issue with it, leaking heavily and showing error code 10 (issue with the water intake, as per the manual). 

The problem was that the conduit to some sort of "there is enough water in the dishwasher" captor was very dirty, preventing it from stopping the inflow until the no-intake water error was reported. Unfortunately that means the overflow too. 

The solution was simply to clean that conduit, after removing the plastic ring that covers it at the bottom of the inside of the dishwasher (3 screws) underneath the metal filter. No need to remove the dishwasher from its location to do that, although we did to track to issue down, and it's fairly straightforward. 

Hope that will help 


Thomas & Soraya
Garulfo
Amel 54 #122
Gran Canaria, Canary Island, Spain 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Bow Thuster Control Box

Mark Erdos
 

I’m not sure I have the same box but if I do, I’d like to keep a spare since they are now unavailable.

Can someone post a picture of what we are talking about, please.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising – St. Lucia, the crime island

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, December 2, 2017 1:33 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Bow Thuster Control Box

 

 

I too would join in a group order for a spare bow thruster control box.  

 

Derick Gates

SM2K#400

Brava

Currently on the hard in Bailey's boatyard, Falmouth Harbour, Antigua