Date   

Re: Inverter/Charger wiring advise

greatketch@...
 


This is a bit confusing...  but I added my second level comments in italics....


---In amelyachtowners@..., <john.biohead@...> wrote :

AC Currents are (almost) never the source of stray current corrosion. To be sure, AC wiring CAN carry DC currents that can be serious sources of stray currents.  This is why AMEL separated the DC Negative from the AC Safety Ground and Bonding system.

RIGHT SO ANY FAULTS IN THE INVERTER, OR DOWNSTREAM EQUIMENT THAT RESUTS IN A DC VOLTAGE OVERLAID ON THE AC WIRING COULD AND WOULD CONTRIBUTE TO A STRAY CURRENT THROUGH THE BONDING SYSTEM...


As with many things with electrics and water... it's complicated.  If such a fault occured, it would show up as a voltage on the bonding system.  Amel's decision to avoid connecting the DC negative with the bonding system is not without its own problems. There is no free lunch...


A couple things about the AC Safety Ground.  It is normally connected to the AC Neutral only at the source of power. This is done so it can provide a low resistance path to carry any leakage current back to the source of power and safely away from people.

SO THE AC SAFETY GROUND ON THE SP CABLE IS CONNECTED TO THE AMEL BONDING SYSTEM. 


Yes.

 

When the generator is running, it connects the AC Safety Ground and Neutral together inside the generator.  RIGHT AND NOW THAT YOU REMIND ME I NEED TO VERIFY THE CONDUCTIVITY BETWEEN THE AC NEUTRAL (BLUE) AND AMEL BONDING (GREEN/YELLOW) WHILE THE GENERTOR IS RUNNING.  WHEN OFF THE TRANSFER SWITCH REVERTS TO SP.  SO WHEN I CHECKED IT I WAS READING RESISTANCE OF THE SP CABLE  UNPLUGGED. 


It can be a little tough to measure by resistance, since you have to measure with the generator running, and small voltages can make the ohm-meter nuts. I checked voltage readings with the generator running between hot and neutral (220V) and between Hot and Safety Ground (220V) and then between Neutral and Safety Ground (~0V) which is what I'd expect.


Same with an inverter.  When it has an external source of power, it passes the AC Safety Ground on through.  When it turns on and becomes the "source of the power" it connects the AC Safety Ground and Neutral so any leakage from the Hot wire has a way to get back to the source of power without going through people.  RIGHT THAT IS EXACTLY HOW THE DEVICE IS CONFIGURED, BUT IT HAS A DISCONNECT TO NOT CONNECT THE CHASSIS GROUND(SAFETY-GROUND/AMEL BONDING) TO THE NEUTRAL.   I WILL CHECK AGAN WHAT THE GENERATOR DOES WHEN ACTIVE.   

 

ONE THOUGHT I HAVE IT THAT THE GENERATOR IS NOT ACTIVE VERY MUCH HOWEVER, THE INVERTER WILL BE POWERED MOST OF THE TIME.  IS THE LENGTH OF TIME THE CONNECTION IS MADE A FACTOR TO CONSIDER?  


I don't see where the time would matter much, it's more a safety issue.


Without a connection back to the inverter when the inverter is the source of power, the AC Safety Ground becomes worse than useless.  If there was an insulation fault that connected the Hot wire to the case of, for example, your microwave, the AC Safety Ground would not be able to drain off that voltage because it could not supply a path for the current back to the source.  In that case the entire bonding system would become charged to the same voltage as the Hot wire with no way for the current to get back to the inverter. Now to put this in perspective, it is very unlikely on the boat that you could find a way to complete that circuit with your body...  but "very unlikely" is not the same as "not possible."

 

UNDERSTOOD.  ONE OF THE DOWNFALLS OF ISOLATING NOT CONNECTING IT.  ON US SUBMARINES WE HAD A SIMILAR SETUP FOR THREE PHASE AC WITH NO GROUND.  POTENTIALLY DANGEROUS TO CREW BUT MORE RESILIENT TO DAMAGE AND ALLOWED CONTINUED OPERATION DOWNSTREAM.  NOT QUITE THE PURPOSE FOR OUR BOATS. 


It's a fuzzy situation where it stops being "safe".  A lot of small inverters have no Safety Ground connection at all.  The expectation being that there is no easy way for a human to put themselves in between the hot and neutral parts of the circuit.  A very different situation than grid power, where the Ground (literally, the earth you stand on) is the return circuit, so any contact with the hot wire is a serious problem.

 

I CERTAINLY INTEND TO THINK A BIT ON THE SET UP BEFORE IMPLEMENTING.  


I don't think what you propose is terribly dangerous, but on the other hand I think it would do nothing to prevent corrosion issues. So any safety loss comes with out a gain.


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Any owner with a Rocna 40?

Colin - ex SV Island Pearl
 

Hi Alexandra
Although the nice big Amel factory supplied s/s CQR type anchor never ever failed us, we replaced that on Island Pearl II with the Rocna 40 (galvanised steel version) for 2 years now and love it. I now sleep well every night and have never yet dragged when many with us here have dragged many times in big storms. We keep the original anchor as a spare with chain and rope ready to deploy in front port side locker.
Regards
Colin
Amel53 #332, Phuket

On Sat, Jan 6, 2018 at 7:45 AM, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 


For those who own a Rocna 40, could you please contact me.
uster@...
uster "at" rocketmail "dot" com

Thanks in advance, sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Lost on September 6 during Hurricane Irma at
IGY Simpson Bay Marina, St Maarten, NA




--
Colin Streeter
0411 016 445


Re: Inverter/Charger wiring advise

John Clark
 

John,

 

If you are not sure about the status of the AC Safety Ground, you really should have a qualified electrician review your plans. What I write below is based on what I think is a good understanding of the matter, but I wouldn't want to risk your life on it...

UNDERSTOOD  ;)

 

AC Currents are (almost) never the source of stray current corrosion. To be sure, AC wiring CAN carry DC currents that can be serious sources of stray currents.  This is why AMEL separated the DC Negative from the AC Safety Ground and Bonding system.

RIGHT SO ANY FAULTS IN THE INVERTER, OR DOWNSTREAM EQUIMENT THAT RESUTS IN A DC VOLTAGE OVERLAID ON THE AC WIRING COULD AND WOULD CONTRIBUTE TO A STRAY CURRENT THROUGH THE BONDING SYSTEM...

 

A couple things about the AC Safety Ground.  It is normally connected to the AC Neutral only at the source of power. This is done so it can provide a low resistance path to carry any leakage current back to the source of power and safely away from people.

SO THE AC SAFETY GROUND ON THE SP CABLE IS CONNECTED TO THE AMEL BONDING SYSTEM. 

 

 

When your source of power is shore power the AC Safety Ground and the AC Neutral are connected only on shore, never on the boat.  A boat that has no isolation transformer, nor inverter, nor generator would never have the Neutral and Safety Ground connected together on the boat.  AGREED.

 

If your source of shore power comes into the boat through an isolation transformer, the transformer becomes the "source of power" and the AC Safety Ground and Neutral are connected together there.  

 

When the generator is running, it connects the AC Safety Ground and Neutral together inside the generator.  RIGHT AND NOW THAT YOU REMIND ME I NEED TO VERIFY THE CONDUCTIVITY BETWEEN THE AC NEUTRAL (BLUE) AND AMEL BONDING (GREEN/YELLOW) WHILE THE GENERTOR IS RUNNING.  WHEN OFF THE TRANSFER SWITCH REVERTS TO SP.  SO WHEN I CHECKED IT I WAS READING RESISTANCE OF THE SP CABLE  UNPLUGGED. 

 

Same with an inverter.  When it has an external source of power, it passes the AC Safety Ground on through.  When it turns on and becomes the "source of the power" it connects the AC Safety Ground and Neutral so any leakage from the Hot wire has a way to get back to the source of power without going through people.  RIGHT THAT IS EXACTLY HOW THE DEVICE IS CONFIGURED, BUT IT HAS A DISCONNECT TO NOT CONNECT THE CHASSIS GROUND(SAFETY-GROUND/AMEL BONDING) TO THE NEUTRAL.   I WILL CHECK AGAN WHAT THE GENERATOR DOES WHEN ACTIVE.   

 

ONE THOUGHT I HAVE IT THAT THE GENERATOR IS NOT ACTIVE VERY MUCH HOWEVER, THE INVERTER WILL BE POWERED MOST OF THE TIME.  IS THE LENGTH OF TIME THE CONNECTION IS MADE A FACTOR TO CONSIDER?  

 

The inverter case is connected to the AC Safety Ground in the event of a inadvertent connection between the Hot wire and the case so that voltage can be drawn off before it becomes dangerous to people.

 

 

Without a connection back to the inverter when the inverter is the source of power, the AC Safety Ground becomes worse than useless.  If there was an insulation fault that connected the Hot wire to the case of, for example, your microwave, the AC Safety Ground would not be able to drain off that voltage because it could not supply a path for the current back to the source.  In that case the entire bonding system would become charged to the same voltage as the Hot wire with no way for the current to get back to the inverter. Now to put this in perspective, it is very unlikely on the boat that you could find a way to complete that circuit with your body...  but "very unlikely" is not the same as "not possible."

 

UNDERSTOOD.  ONE OF THE DOWNFALLS OF ISOLATING NOT CONNECTING IT.  ON US SUBMARINES WE HAD A SIMILAR SETUP FOR THREE PHASE AC WITH NO GROUND.  POTENTIALLY DANGEROUS TO CREW BUT MORE RESILIENT TO DAMAGE AND ALLOWED CONTINUED OPERATION DOWNSTREAM.  NOT QUITE THE PURPOSE FOR OUR BOATS. 

 

I CERTAINLY INTEND TO THINK A BIT ON THE SET UP BEFORE IMPLEMENTING.  


Re: Inverter Replacement

svperegrinus@yahoo.com
 

Duane,

Our Prosine was also installed by Lean Marine in 2013.  I guess we are fortunate ours is OK, despite some abuse.

Best of luck with the replacement!

Peregrinus
SM2K #350


---In amelyachtowners@..., <sailor63109@...> wrote :

We also installed the Xantrex Prosine 1800i.

It lasted one year and quit.  The error code was "contact the factory".  Xantrex replaced it promptly without waiting for the old one to come back, they just asked me to remove the serial number from it before we put it in the trash.  

So factory support was excellent, but I don't have much faith in it now.  It was installed by an electrician recommended by Joel Potter (Lean Marine in Ft. Lauderdale), so I don't think that was the issue.

Duane
Wanderer, SM#477


Re: Inverter/Charger wiring advise

greatketch@...
 

John,

If you are not sure about the status of the AC Safety Ground, you really should have a qualified electrician review your plans. What I write below is based on what I think is a good understanding of the matter, but I wouldn't want to risk your life on it...

AC Currents are (almost) never the source of stray current corrosion. To be sure, AC wiring CAN carry DC currents that can be serious sources of stray currents.  This is why AMEL separated the DC Negative from the AC Safety Ground and Bonding system.

A couple things about the AC Safety Ground.  It is normally connected to the AC Neutral only at the source of power. This is done so it can provide a low resistance path to carry any leakage current back to the source of power and safely away from people.

When your source of power is shore power the AC Safety Ground and the AC Neutral are connected only on shore, never on the boat.  A boat that has no isolation transformer, nor inverter, nor generator would never have the Neutral and Safety Ground connected together on the boat.

If your source of shore power comes into the boat through an isolation transformer, the transformer becomes the "source of power" and the AC Safety Ground and Neutral are connected together there.  

When the generator is running, it connects the AC Safety Ground and Neutral together inside the generator.

Same with an inverter.  When it has an external source of power, it passes the AC Safety Ground on through.  When it turns on and becomes the "source of the power" it connects the AC Safety Ground and Neutral so any leakage from the Hot wire has a way to get back to the source of power without going through people.

The inverter case is connected to the AC Safety Ground in the event of a inadvertent connection between the Hot wire and the case so that voltage can be drawn off before it becomes dangerous to people.

Without a connection back to the inverter when the inverter is the source of power, the AC Safety Ground becomes worse than useless.  If there was an insulation fault that connected the Hot wire to the case of, for example, your microwave, the AC Safety Ground would not be able to drain off that voltage because it could not supply a path for the current back to the source.  In that case the entire bonding system would become charged to the same voltage as the Hot wire with no way for the current to get back to the inverter. Now to put this in perspective, it is very unlikely on the boat that you could find a way to complete that circuit with your body...  but "very unlikely" is not the same as "not possible."


Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
North Bimini, Bahamas.


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Amel decals replacement

Jean-Pierre's MacBook Air <jgermain@...>
 

Hello John,

Indeed my decals were replaced by SS panels.

Does look good I must admit.  :-)

Jean-Pierre Germain
SY Eleuthera, SM007
Panama



On 7 Jan 2018, at 16:28, john.biohead@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Hi Stephanie,

    I too need to do something with our decals.  I saw a picture of an 
SM that had replaced the side decals with polished stainless steel that looked terrific.  

I think it was SM007 Eluthera, JP's boat.  Now it is coming back, he had Emek in Turkey fabricate the panel.  I wonder if Emek has a template?  

JP, am I remembering right?

JOhn
SV Annie  SM37
St. Augustine.



Re: Inverter/Charger wiring advise

John Clark
 

Hi Bill,
   I plan to connect the chassis of the inverter to the Amel green/yellow bonding system. The inverter connects the AC neutral to the chassis ground when in inverter mode.  Would that not allow stray current through the Amel bonding system and therefore other water exposed metal?


When I examined the existing AC distribution system I found the Amel bonding to be isolated from the neutral(blue wires).  Is that how it is supposed to be?

John


Re: Inverter/Charger wiring advise

greatketch@...
 

John,

Popcorn can be important!

Your confirmation that the inverter does not cross-connect the DC negative and the AC safety ground is key. Such a cross connection would destroy the "floating" part of the Amel DC Floating Negative.

On the other hand, I am wondering why you feel the need to remove the connection between  AC Neutral and the AC Safety Ground at the inverter?

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
North Bimini, Bahamas


---In amelyachtowners@..., <mfmcgovern@...> wrote :

John,

I do not see any attached wiring diagram and I did not see anything in the Photo section either.  However, that might just be me!  Check that you attached the wiring diagram be sure.

That said, it sure sounds like you are on the right track.  Popcorn underway sounds like a noble pursuit!

Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA...freezing our a$$es off...


Re: Inverter/Charger wiring advise

John Clark
 

Hi Mark,  Yes Yahoo is sometimes funny about the attachments.  Let's try again. Well it looks like it loaded but then gives an error message.  I will try to send to photos section after typing.  See photo called "
Magna Wiring"


 Also I posted the same pic on the Amel FB group.


Re: Looking for a Super Maramu 2000

John Clark
 

Olaf,
   I agree with Bill R. and Mark.   I used Stephanie last year for my SM purchase and she (and JP) were great to work with.  Stephanie helps with all the paperwork and smoothed the way for an easy transaction.  Before I bought my SM in Le Marin,  I contacted Olivier when I was closing in on an SM in Europe and he gave good advice and made himself available on short notice.  

                                   Regards,  John

John Clark
SV Annie SM 37
St. Augustine  


Re: Amel decals replacement

John Clark
 

Hi Stephanie,
    I too need to do something with our decals.  I saw a picture of an 
SM that had replaced the side decals with polished stainless steel that looked terrific.  

I think it was SM007 Eluthera, JP's boat.  Now it is coming back, he had Emek in Turkey fabricate the panel.  I wonder if Emek has a template?  

JP, am I remembering right?

JOhn
SV Annie  SM37
St. Augustine.


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Haul out southern Sicily or Malta

Mohammad Shirloo
 

Thanks Bill.
 
My e-mails still bounce back. It may be something on our end. Do you have an alternate e-mail I could try?
 
Mohammad and Aty
B&B Kokomo
Amel 54 #099


From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2018 12:44 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Haul out southern Sicily or Malta

 

M&A,

That email, Bill"at"AmelSchool.com, is working. I just tried it. 

I worked with both of the following people there:
Andrew Wilson - Commercial Manager awilson@...
Joanne Mifsud - Executive Secretary jmifsud@... 
MIYY LTD | Manoel Island | Gzira | MALTA
(+356) 2133 4453/4 7 | (+356) 2134 3900

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

On Sat, Jan 6, 2018 at 12:32 PM, 'Mohammad Shirloo' mshirloo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Thanks Bill. Since we are currently wintering in Licata Sicily, this was our first choice. Good to know you had a good experience with them. Any contact people at the boat yard?
 
I tried sending you an e-mail to Bill@... and the e-mail was bounced back. What is a good e-mail for you now?
 
Mohammad and Aty
B&B Kokomo
Amel 54 #099
 


From: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com [mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2018 6:29 AM
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Haul out southern Sicily or Malta

 

I would choose Manoel Island Boatyard, Malta over di Ragusa, and did in 2013. Larger assortment of parts/material, more experience, and less price. 



On Jan 4, 2018 00:35, "mshirloo@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Hi everyone;


We need to haul out in May 2018 for our bottom paint, bow Thruster and C-drive  service. We also need to change out our batteries and possibly install an arch and solar. Looking for recommendation of yards and outfits that you have worked with and can recoomend in southern Sicily, Malta area. I have read most of the discussions on battery selection on the forum. Would appreciate recommended suppliers in the med or other areas that can ship to the med.


Thanks as always;



Mohammad and Aty

B&B Kokomo

Amel 54 #099









--
Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970


Re: Inverter/Charger wiring advise

mfmcgovern@...
 

John,

I do not see any attached wiring diagram and I did not see anything in the Photo section either.  However, that might just be me!  Check that you attached the wiring diagram be sure.

That said, it sure sounds like you are on the right track.  Popcorn underway sounds like a noble pursuit!

Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA...freezing our a$$es off...


Re: Inverter Replacement

John Clark
 

Well, I guess I am undergoing a similar evolution right now installing a whole house inverter for the first time.  I posted my wiring plan in a new topic.  

I think as Bill K said most modern inverter/chargers have isolated grounds.  The unit I selected (MagnaSine 4124, had an optional "system ground jumper"  that had to be disconnected to keep the inverter AC neutral separate from the chassis ground/earth/bond, but otherwise had no connections with the current carrying lines and earth. 


John

SV Annie SM 37
St. Augustine.



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Lifeline AGM 105 AmpHr Battery Replacement Procedures

mfmcgovern@...
 

Bill,

Your plan looks sound.  I replaced the 12 batteries in my SM2k last year and followed a similar procedure.  I agree with James that it would be best to load test each battery before installing them to make sure they are all good batteries.  People have reported getting "bad" new batteries.  Ideally, this would be done BEFORE they are shipped out to you.  If you cannot get a real load test done, get your hands on something like this:  https://www.amazon.com/BA7-100-1200-Electronic-Battery-System/dp/B0015PI7A4  Bill Rouse (ex BeBe) recommended this device to me and I'm quite happy with it.  When I replaced my batteries I had the battery shop load test each battery in my presence using their real load tester and then I used my BA7.  It was within a few % points of the "real" load tester.

I have taken your plan, put it into numbered steps and added a few suggestion below in RED:

1.  Take several pictures of the existing battery installation for reference.  
2.  Use masking tape to label each battery with a number and each cable (at both ends) with the number of the battery to which it is attached including whether it's the plus or minus terminal. 
3.  Take several pictures including one of each "pair" of the labeled installation and make a diagram on paper. 
4.  Turn off all power to the boat including the Permanent +12v for the radio (assuming you have this).
5.  Disconnect the batteries with the big red handles in the pilot berth.  
6.  Remove the batteries, inspect each cable and their terminals for corrosion, looseness etc and repair as required.  
7.  Clean all the battery cable terminals with sandpaper.
8.  Replace all 8 batteries in place and reconnect all the cables using the photos and diagram as a reference.
9.  Use come Corrosion X on each of the battery terminal before replacing the plastic caps. 
10.  Ask the boss to check that everything is correctly connected per the diagram and pictures.  Lucky for me my boss is an Electric Power Engineer!
11.  Use a multimeter to confirm that each of the four pairs of batteries is indeed 24 volts (assuming you have an SM and your batteries are wired in +24v series/parallel configuration) 
12.  Close the red battery handles and restore boat power.  
13.  If all is OK, turn on the battery charger and fully charge the batteries.
14.  Check that the vent line is clear.

Good luck!

Mark
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Haul out southern Sicily or Malta

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

M&A,

That email, Bill"at"AmelSchool.com, is working. I just tried it. 

I worked with both of the following people there:
Andrew Wilson - Commercial Manager awilson@...
Joanne Mifsud - Executive Secretary jmifsud@... 
MIYY LTD | Manoel Island | Gzira | MALTA
(+356) 2133 4453/4 7 | (+356) 2134 3900

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

On Sat, Jan 6, 2018 at 12:32 PM, 'Mohammad Shirloo' mshirloo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Thanks Bill. Since we are currently wintering in Licata Sicily, this was our first choice. Good to know you had a good experience with them. Any contact people at the boat yard?
 
I tried sending you an e-mail to Bill@... and the e-mail was bounced back. What is a good e-mail for you now?
 
Mohammad and Aty
B&B Kokomo
Amel 54 #099
 


From: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com [mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2018 6:29 AM
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Haul out southern Sicily or Malta

 

I would choose Manoel Island Boatyard, Malta over di Ragusa, and did in 2013. Larger assortment of parts/material, more experience, and less price. 



On Jan 4, 2018 00:35, "mshirloo@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Hi everyone;


We need to haul out in May 2018 for our bottom paint, bow Thruster and C-drive  service. We also need to change out our batteries and possibly install an arch and solar. Looking for recommendation of yards and outfits that you have worked with and can recoomend in southern Sicily, Malta area. I have read most of the discussions on battery selection on the forum. Would appreciate recommended suppliers in the med or other areas that can ship to the med.


Thanks as always;



Mohammad and Aty

B&B Kokomo

Amel 54 #099









--
Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Lifeline AGM 105 AmpHr Battery Replacement Procedures

John Clark
 

Hi Bill,
   that sounds good to me.  I opt for pictures over hand drawn wiring diagrams now that "digital film" is so inexpensive.   ;)  

 James' advice to check each battery individually is good advice especially since you have a lot invested in them.  If they are not yet shipped I would ask the shop to test them and provide data for each battery.  If you have a multi meter I would check voltage and polarity as you go about connecting the cells.  Just a dummy check that might save you from a lot of heartache if the wires get crossed.  

 Regards,  John

SV Annie
SM 37
St. Augustine.



Re: Max Prop Anti-Fouling Treatment

greatketch@...
 

Bill,

First, Prop Speed is still widely available. I am not sure why your local guys can't get it.  Assuming for whatever reason it can not be locally obtained, Velox is another product that works well for props and other running gear. Some people swear by one, others by the other.  Pick your favorite!

I would avoid standard bottom paint on the prop.  In theory, if you epoxy coat it you can isolate the copper from the bronze, but the smallest flaw in the epoxy coating and the paint will very rapidly fail.  It is also almost impossible to keep the epoxy adhered.  The same chemical process that causes the zinc to protect the prop from corrosion also tends to blow coatings off the prop unless they are specially designed for it.  Even PropSpeed only lasts about 12 months on most boats and then begins to fail.

Worst case:  Leave it naked, like everybody did 10 years ago, and clean it regularly underwater. A popular trick was to wrap it in a black plastic bag while anchored or docked for any extended time to keep stuff from growing. Then remove the bag before getting underway. Obviously a strategy best suited to warm tropical waters!

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
North Bimini, Bahamas


---In amelyachtowners@..., <pacificcool@...> wrote :

Two years ago I treated my Max Prop with Prop Speed to protect it from critters underwater.  I asked Peake Yachts here in Trinidad where I'm hauled out if they could reapply the Prop Speed (maybe its Speed Prop) and they said it's no longer available.  Does anyone have a suggestion on how to protect my Max Prop?  One web site suggested I sand it down to bare metal (done), apply an epoxy primer, and then apply anti-fouling.  For some reason it seems like that is not a great idea.  


Anyone have any suggestions?


Regards,

Bill Shaproski

S/V Pacific Cool


Inverter/Charger wiring advise

John Clark
 

Hi All,

  I am installing a “whole house” inverter/charger, a MagnaSine 4124 (230v/50hz.)

I explained to the vendor, Inverter Service Center in Tennessee , how the Amel electrical system has a floating DC negative and separate ground/earth/bonding connection.  He recommended this unit specifically for the boat because it is a native 230v/50hz not a US 240v/60hz unit tweaked to produce 50hz.  The grounding/neutral setup is apparently incompatible in those North American units.  

 

The Magna has an automatic transfer switch that will select incoming AC power or inverter output, incoming power preferred.   Both the hot and neutral AC lines are switched.   When it selects the inverter for AC output, the AC neutral is connected to chassis ground/earth by a “system bonding jumper” which I unplugged per instructions to keep the bonding separate from the neutral. 

 

I double checked the unit after unpacking and there is no continuity between the chassis ground/earth and the DC negative, and also  after unplugging the “system bonding jumper” there is no continuity to the ground from the inverter AC neutrals.  I intend to connect the chassis ground/earth to the Amel bonding system and leave the DC negative floating.

 

I intend to mount the unit next to the Dolphin charger on the port side of the engine room.  This is where the old HVAC compressor sat and is close to the main battery disconnect bus work.  The DC cable run should be less than one meter.  

 

Attached is a picture of my proposed wiring.  Is this how the unit should interact with the Amel bonding system?

 

Green is the Amel bonding system as it is wired on my boat and how I intend to connect the new inverter/charger. 

 

Pink is the location of circuit breakers.

 

I currently have two battery chargers powered from the 230V distribution panel, a 30A Dolphin, and a 40 A Mastervolt.  These were installed by previous owner.  

 

The AC panel is powered through a 40amp breaker and an automatic transfer switch which chooses between the 7KW Onan Generator or shore power.  Generator is preferred. Generator has a 30A AC breaker.  All as was installed by previous owner.

 

Inside the AC panel the bonding/earth connections (green/yellow wires) have no conductivity to the AC hot(brown) or AC neutral(blue).

 

There is a 600 watt inverter installed under the nav station that powers a portable 230v/50hz power strip.  No part of this unit is connected to the Amel bonding system.  Again all previous owner installation.

 

We have had no issues to date with galvanic corrosion.  We replaced rudder anodes in Charleston in August and they still look new.

 

And all this work is so we can make popcorn in the microwave underway.


Regards,  John


John Clark

SV Annie  SM37

St. Augustine FL......awaiting new microwave....



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Lifeline AGM 105 AmpHr Battery Replacement Procedures

James Alton
 

Bill,

   The only thing that I can think of to add would be to insure that the new batteries were individually all at a similar state of charge before connecting them.  It might also be a good idea to do a load test on each individual battery before connecting them together to ensure that they all seem healthy.  Most auto parts stores have a load tester if you do not have one yourself.  I am sure that one of the battery experts on the forum will step in to help you further.  Best of luck.

James

SV Sueño
Maramu #220

On Jan 7, 2018, at 1:51 PM, pacificcool@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


My 8 Lifeline AGM 105 AmpHr batteries are pretty much gone so I've ordered 8 new GPL-31T 105 Am Hr batteries from DC Battery in Fort Lauderdale and had them air air shipped to Trinidad.  The cost of the batteries was $2524 and shipping was $680.  If I had shipped by sea it would have cost about $200 but  could not find anyone to receive them in Trinidad if I wasn't there.  The air shipment was handled by Ezone.  The contact for Ezone is Paul Pantin, tel: 868-620-6135. I am happy with the service from DC Battery and Ezone.  Even with the air freight it was cheaper than buying them either in Trinidad or Grenada.  FYI, each battery weighs 70 pounds.


My question involves how to actually replace them.  I plan to take a picture of the existing battery installation for reference.  Then I will use masking tape to label each battery with a number and each cable (at both ends) with the number of the battery to which it is attached including whether it's the plus or minus terminal. Next I will take a picture of the labeled installation or simply make a diagram on paper.   Then I will disconnect the batteries with the big red handles in the pilot berth and turn off all power to the boat.  After that I will remove the batteries, inspect each cable and their termin als for corrosion, looseness etc and repair as required.  Next I will position all 8 batteries in place and reconnect all the cables using the photo or diagram.  Next I will ask the boss to check that everything is correctly connected per the diagram.  Once that is conformed I will close the red battery handles and restore boat power.  If all is OK, I will turn on the battery charger and fully charge the batteries,  Lastly, I will check that the vent line is clear.  


I ask any of you electrical experts if my plan is sound or if you think i have overlooked something.  My past experience with b attery replacement is a 6 volt  battery on a 51 Ford in 1959 and a 6 volt battery on a 1959 BMW R50 motorcycle.  I included the purchase and shipment details in case anyone else is considering battery replacement in the Caribbean.  Any comments or suggestions will be appreciated.  


Best Regards,

Bill Shaproski

S/V Pacific Cool