Date   

Shore power cord

eric freedman
 

Ryan,

I bought 100 feet of 10 gauge round black rubber coated wire from Home depot about 8 years ago. It is rated at 30 amps. I hooked  it up to a 50 amp USA twist-lock plug and use only the red, black and green ground. DO NOT HOOK UP THE WHITE NEUTRAL. 

It works well with everything on board running including 3 AC units. The AC units are on timers so they all do not start at once.

I have never seen over 16 amps when everything is running.

It looks exactly like the factory stock wire supplied by Amel.

100 feet is long but on occasion it comes in handy.

I am currently working to make a box to connect into the wire near the pedestal plug with a 35 amp circuit breaker in it. This is because the breaker on the 50  amp pedestal is 50 amps.

 

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

I pulled the wire all the way from the stern to the transfer case so there are no splices.

I have made a number of adapters for the 30 and 50 amp European plugs that just plug into the 50 amp twistlock.

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 2:19 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Generator charging question

 

 

Interesting that so many marinas as so limiting on power.  Is it possible to run all three air conditioners on 16A?  I've never measured the draw.

 

My SM has a shore power cord and main breaker sized for 35A (I was under the impression this is true for all SM).  I believe the generator runs through that same 35A breaker, so that's the max there as well (it's basically moot since it's a 9kW generator).  My shore power cord could use a replacement, so I've been investigating the possibility of upgrading it to handle 50A.  It would be handy to have the extra power to run the heat in the winter.  My boat came from the factory with extra dedicated heater circuits, which I don't think are standard, so it would be no trouble at all to exceed 35A draw from the panel.  The biggest challenge is fitting a larger cord through the conduit to the panel.

 

Ryan

SM 233 Iteration

Boston, MA, USA

 

 

On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 2:10 PM, 'Mohammad Shirloo' mshirloo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Ryan;

 

We have a 100A and a 40A charger aboard. If the batteries are being drained to proper levels for optimal life, the 100A charger will only be at max output for 10-15 minutes before the charge rate drops below the max output, so there is minimal advantage in running the two charges together. The disadvantages are, at least to a certain extent, unknown and are dependent on many factors.

 

As far as the shore power connections in other parts of the world, in the Med, there are many marinas and harbors that only have 16A connections. However there are many that also have 32A connections. Some have higher output connections as well. The limiting factor on the Amels, is the shore power connection and wiring to the panel. On our 54, it is sized for 32A. Therefore there is a 32A breaker in the aft lazarette that feeds the panel. You have to check on your SM to see the wire sizing and shore power breaker sizing.

 

The only way to get the full 50A 230V to the panel is by the generator.

 

 

Respectfully;

Mohammad and Aty

B&B Kokomo

Amel 54 #099

 

 


From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 9:39 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Generator charging question

 

At first glance, I thought it could be dangerous to use multiple smart chargers because they could get into different states, but after thinking through all the possible combinations, I've convinced myself it is actually safe -- provided the total current is less than what the batteries can accept.  It might not produce the optimal results for your battery lifespan, though: they could transition from bulk to acceptance or acceptance to float before the battery is actually ready, because each charger can only sense its own contribution to the charge current.  Chargers in different stages shouldn't fight each other directly because they sense the current/voltage of the system.  Floating at different voltages should be safe; the charger with the lower float voltage would just not be doing anything.  If one or more chargers has a float voltage above that which the batteries are designed to handle, that would be bad... but that's also bad with just one charger.

 

I do not think it is safe to mix smart chargers and dumb chargers without knowing exactly how the dumb charger works.  It is conceivable that the dumb charger just puts out a constant voltage, and would act as a sink for a higher voltage -- then you'd get the two chargers directly fighting each other, possibly tripping breakers, and definitely wasting power.  The same could happen with two dumb chargers that have different voltage setpoints; presumably the ones Amel installed as stock were configured with the same voltage and/or were smart enough to shut off if they started acting as a sink.

 

As an aside, is a 16A shore power connection typical in some parts of the world?  At 230V, that's about the same wattage as the "small boat" 30A@120V connections in the USA.  A larger yacht like a Super Maramu is expected to connect to 50A@240V in the US, but usually also has the option of connecting to two 30A@120V connections.  I assume you can't connect to two 16A@230V connections because the 230V parts of the world don't use a split-phase power system like we do in the US, but perhaps I'm wrong about that.

 

Thanks,

Ryan

SM 233 Iteration

Boston, MA, USA

 

 

On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 2:11 AM, svperegrinus@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Our solar chargers by Genasun are not properly adjustable to the voltages required by Trojan for our AGM batteries.  So we disconnect solar when on shorepower to prevent over-voltage charging of full batteries.

 

We routinely turn on both battery chargers as follows:

 

(1) When charging from the generator.

(2) When we will have shore power for only one day or two.

 

Evidently after one hour or less the batteries charge at less than 100 A, and at this point it makes no difference whether you have one or both chargers on.  So we routinely turn one off.

 

Cheers,

 

Peregrinus

SM2K N. 350 (2002)

Herzliya

 

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Generator charging question

Mohammad Shirloo
 

Ryan;
 
The ACs draw about 4-5 A at 230V. So with all three running and the charger and other systems you will exceed the 16A. At the recommendation of Bill Rouse of Ex BeBe and now AmelSchool.com (had to give Bill a plug, he has been of tremendous help to every one here), we installed a power meter which helps greatly in monitoring the current being used on board so we do not exceed the limits of the type of connection that is feeding the panel. In this manner we can turn systems on-off based on what we need to do on board.
 
I'm not sure about the SM, but there should be another breaker just for the shore power, before it gets to the main breaker at the panel. On our 54 it is in the aft lazarette, which is the closets point to the shore power connection. I would think that it would be prudent to have a breaker right where the shore power comes in, so that the wires from the shore power connection to the main panel are not left unprotected.
 
We have spent one winter sailing the Greek Isles. It was the coldest winter in 50 years with temperatures typically in the 30s and winds of force 6-9. We managed to heat the entire boat and run all systems on 16A shore power in most occasions by managing the systems that were used simultaneously. The Amels are extremely well designed to function well in most conditions.
 
We have not made any modifications to the factory installed systems for the past 3 years that we have owned her, and are very happy with the systems as installed by the factory. The suggestion to us from every one when we first joined the group, which we have now come to appreciate, was to not make any modifications until you have used the boat extensively for over a year.
 
 
 
Respectfully;
Mohammad and Aty
B&B Kokomo
Amel 54 #099
 


From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 11:19 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Generator charging question

 

Interesting that so many marinas as so limiting on power.  Is it possible to run all three air conditioners on 16A?  I've never measured the draw.

My SM has a shore power cord and main breaker sized for 35A (I was under the impression this is true for all SM).  I believe the generator runs through that same 35A breaker, so that's the max there as well (it's basically moot since it's a 9kW generator).  My shore power cord could use a replacement, so I've been investigating the possibility of upgrading it to handle 50A.  It would be handy to have the extra power to run the heat in the winter.  My boat came from the factory with extra dedicated heater circuits, which I don't think are standard, so it would be no trouble at all to exceed 35A draw from the panel.  The biggest challenge is fitting a larger cord through the conduit to the panel.

Ryan
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA


On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 2:10 PM, 'Mohammad Shirloo' mshirloo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Ryan;
 
We have a 100A and a 40A charger aboard. If the batteries are being drained to proper levels for optimal life, the 100A charger will only be at max output for 10-15 minutes before the charge rate drops below the max output, so there is minimal advantage in running the two charges together. The disadvantages are, at least to a certain extent, unknown and are dependent on many factors.
 
As far as the shore power connections in other parts of the world, in the Med, there are many marinas and harbors that only have 16A connections. However there are many that also have 32A connections. Some have higher output connections as well. The limiting factor on the Amels, is the shore power connection and wiring to the panel. On our 54, it is sized for 32A. Therefore there is a 32A breaker in the aft lazarette that feeds the panel. You have to check on your SM to see the wire sizing and shore power breaker sizing.
 
The only way to get the full 50A 230V to the panel is by the generator.
 
 
Respectfully;
Mohammad and Aty
B&B Kokomo
Amel 54 #099
 


From: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com [mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 9:39 AM
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Generator charging question

 

At first glance, I thought it could be dangerous to use multiple smart chargers because they could get into different states, but after thinking through all the possible combinations, I've convinced myself it is actually safe -- provided the total current is less than what the batteries can accept.  It might not produce the optimal results for your battery lifespan, though: they could transition from bulk to acceptance or acceptance to float before the battery is actually ready, because each charger can only sense its own contribution to the charge current.  Chargers in different stages shouldn't fight each other directly because they sense the current/voltage of the system.  Floating at different voltages should be safe; the charger with the lower float voltage would just not be doing anything.  If one or more chargers has a float voltage above that which the batteries are designed to handle, that would be bad... but that's also bad with just one charger.

I do not think it is safe to mix smart chargers and dumb chargers without knowing exactly how the dumb charger works.  It is conceivable that the dumb charger just puts out a constant voltage, and would act as a sink for a higher voltage -- then you'd get the two chargers directly fighting each other, possibly tripping breakers, and definitely wasting power.  The same could happen with two dumb chargers that have different voltage setpoints; presumably the ones Amel installed as stock were configured with the same voltage and/or were smart enough to shut off if they started acting as a sink.

As an aside, is a 16A shore power connection typical in some parts of the world?  At 230V, that's about the same wattage as the "small boat" 30A@120V connections in the USA.  A larger yacht like a Super Maramu is expected to connect to 50A@240V in the US, but usually also has the option of connecting to two 30A@120V connections.  I assume you can't connect to two 16A@230V connections because the 230V parts of the world don't use a split-phase power system like we do in the US, but perhaps I'm wrong about that.

Thanks,
Ryan
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA


On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 2:11 AM, svperegrinus@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Our solar chargers by Genasun are not properly adjustable to the voltages required by Trojan for our AGM batteries.  So we disconnect solar when on shorepower to prevent over-voltage charging of full batteries.


We routinely turn on both battery chargers as follows:

(1) When charging from the generator.
(2) When we will have shore power for only one day or two.

Evidently after one hour or less the batteries charge at less than 100 A, and at this point it makes no difference whether you have one or both chargers on.  So we routinely turn one off.

Cheers,

Peregrinus
SM2K N. 350 (2002)
Herzliya




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] electrolysis on jib furling gearbox? [1 Attachment]

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi, welcome to the group. 

The grease dripping out of the bottom of the gearbox is most likely from the forestay although after 20 years if it has not been replenished there would not be much left. Amel grease the forestay inside the foil to eliminate friction. In hot climates this grease softens and comes out the bottom. Messy. I had my forestay off a couple of years ago and regreased mine as we fed it back into the foil using most of two grease cartridges. The furling was noticeably quieter afterwards. I had been contemplating using a needle point grease gun to pump grease in at the top of the foil in situ but took the opportunity while it was down to do the job. As to the corrosion, salt and water in a situation with two plates and access for water between for 20 years.... I suspect that to be the cause.

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

Mangonui New Zealand

On 10 January 2018 at 17:11 "pandmdegroot@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Greetings and Happy New Year,

I’m new to the group having purchased “Liebling” SM hull #207 In June 2017.  Now she is “La Querida” berthed in Moss Landing, California.

Over the last several months I noticed something like grease dripping out from the jib furling gearbox and finally dismantled it last weekend.  In general it was in reasonable shape for a 20 year old gearbox.  However the aluminum  disc on the out put shaft showed considerable pitting which I interpret as electrolysis.  On my particular box, the aluminum is in contact with a bronze or brass bushing.  I did some reading on line and was quite alarmed to learn that neighboring boats and poor grounding of the marina shore power apparently can accelerate electrolysis on a well designed and maintained boat such as our Amels.  So two questions:

  1. Has anyone else experienced this electrolysis on the aluminum disc on top of the gearbox?  (or is mine indicative of a bigger problem)
  2. I briefly investigated galvanic isolators as protection for poorly grounded shore power.  Is this worthwhile?

Thanks in advance.

BTW our plans are to cruise to Mexicos west coast after retirement in about 3 years.  Saludos a todas!

 


 


Repairs to PC Boards- Onan and others

eric freedman
 

Hi Alex,

Here is a note I received from my friend Marten in Bogota. He is a Dutch engineer who repairs circuit boards.

Please contact him directly and use my name.

Fair Winds

Eric Freedman

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

. I even start to repair now for the Colombian navy. The boards need to have a minimum value of 500$, else it does not make sense to repair, but I guess it is. The epoxy might be an issue, it depends of how thick it is. It takes sometimes a lot of effort only to remove it. Best would be to send an email with a picture of the board, so we can check if it is worth to send and to repair. My professional email: co@...

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2018 1:56 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] who does ONAN PCB board repairs?

 

 

Dear Amelians,

I had to buy a new PCB board for my ONAN generator which finally seems to work fine for more than just a couple days...

I kept my old board, hoping to find someone who knows how to analyze faults and eventually repair this rather expensive part and then keep it as a spare.

So does anyone of you know somebody who could do this work?

Best regards,

Alex, SY NO STRESS

AMEL54 #15


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] electrolysis on jib furling gearbox?

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Good afternoon Peter,

Following Olivier’s recommendations I installed a Galvanic Isolator, here is the illustration: http://www.nikimat.com/galvanic_isolator.html

Sincerely, Alexandre



--------------------------------------------

On Wed, 1/10/18, pandmdegroot@sbcglobal.net [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] electrolysis on jib furling gearbox?
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, January 10, 2018, 7:53 AM


 









thanks Joel,Yes your absolutely correct
about the fishing boats.  The marina also has many derelict
boats and live-aboards on vessels well past their prime.  I
will pursue the galvanic isolator.  I wan't sure about
the grease coming out of the bottom of the gearbox, but
I'm one to investigate until my confidence builds.  it
turns out there were "dry" pockets within the
gearbox, and the upper bearings had significant rust and no
longer turned smoothly.
Thanks for the history and
advice
Peter de
GrootLa QueridaSM #207


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Generator charging question

Ryan Meador
 

Interesting that so many marinas as so limiting on power.  Is it possible to run all three air conditioners on 16A?  I've never measured the draw.

My SM has a shore power cord and main breaker sized for 35A (I was under the impression this is true for all SM).  I believe the generator runs through that same 35A breaker, so that's the max there as well (it's basically moot since it's a 9kW generator).  My shore power cord could use a replacement, so I've been investigating the possibility of upgrading it to handle 50A.  It would be handy to have the extra power to run the heat in the winter.  My boat came from the factory with extra dedicated heater circuits, which I don't think are standard, so it would be no trouble at all to exceed 35A draw from the panel.  The biggest challenge is fitting a larger cord through the conduit to the panel.

Ryan
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA


On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 2:10 PM, 'Mohammad Shirloo' mshirloo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Ryan;
 
We have a 100A and a 40A charger aboard. If the batteries are being drained to proper levels for optimal life, the 100A charger will only be at max output for 10-15 minutes before the charge rate drops below the max output, so there is minimal advantage in running the two charges together. The disadvantages are, at least to a certain extent, unknown and are dependent on many factors.
 
As far as the shore power connections in other parts of the world, in the Med, there are many marinas and harbors that only have 16A connections. However there are many that also have 32A connections. Some have higher output connections as well. The limiting factor on the Amels, is the shore power connection and wiring to the panel. On our 54, it is sized for 32A. Therefore there is a 32A breaker in the aft lazarette that feeds the panel. You have to check on your SM to see the wire sizing and shore power breaker sizing.
 
The only way to get the full 50A 230V to the panel is by the generator.
 
 
Respectfully;
Mohammad and Aty
B&B Kokomo
Amel 54 #099
 


From: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com [mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 9:39 AM
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Generator charging question

 

At first glance, I thought it could be dangerous to use multiple smart chargers because they could get into different states, but after thinking through all the possible combinations, I've convinced myself it is actually safe -- provided the total current is less than what the batteries can accept.  It might not produce the optimal results for your battery lifespan, though: they could transition from bulk to acceptance or acceptance to float before the battery is actually ready, because each charger can only sense its own contribution to the charge current.  Chargers in different stages shouldn't fight each other directly because they sense the current/voltage of the system.  Floating at different voltages should be safe; the charger with the lower float voltage would just not be doing anything.  If one or more chargers has a float voltage above that which the batteries are designed to handle, that would be bad... but that's also bad with just one charger.

I do not think it is safe to mix smart chargers and dumb chargers without knowing exactly how the dumb charger works.  It is conceivable that the dumb charger just puts out a constant voltage, and would act as a sink for a higher voltage -- then you'd get the two chargers directly fighting each other, possibly tripping breakers, and definitely wasting power.  The same could happen with two dumb chargers that have different voltage setpoints; presumably the ones Amel installed as stock were configured with the same voltage and/or were smart enough to shut off if they started acting as a sink.

As an aside, is a 16A shore power connection typical in some parts of the world?  At 230V, that's about the same wattage as the "small boat" 30A@120V connections in the USA.  A larger yacht like a Super Maramu is expected to connect to 50A@240V in the US, but usually also has the option of connecting to two 30A@120V connections.  I assume you can't connect to two 16A@230V connections because the 230V parts of the world don't use a split-phase power system like we do in the US, but perhaps I'm wrong about that.

Thanks,
Ryan
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA


On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 2:11 AM, svperegrinus@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Our solar chargers by Genasun are not properly adjustable to the voltages required by Trojan for our AGM batteries.  So we disconnect solar when on shorepower to prevent over-voltage charging of full batteries.


We routinely turn on both battery chargers as follows:

(1) When charging from the generator.
(2) When we will have shore power for only one day or two.

Evidently after one hour or less the batteries charge at less than 100 A, and at this point it makes no difference whether you have one or both chargers on.  So we routinely turn one off.

Cheers,

Peregrinus
SM2K N. 350 (2002)
Herzliya




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Generator charging question

Mohammad Shirloo
 

Hi Ryan;
 
We have a 100A and a 40A charger aboard. If the batteries are being drained to proper levels for optimal life, the 100A charger will only be at max output for 10-15 minutes before the charge rate drops below the max output, so there is minimal advantage in running the two charges together. The disadvantages are, at least to a certain extent, unknown and are dependent on many factors.
 
As far as the shore power connections in other parts of the world, in the Med, there are many marinas and harbors that only have 16A connections. However there are many that also have 32A connections. Some have higher output connections as well. The limiting factor on the Amels, is the shore power connection and wiring to the panel. On our 54, it is sized for 32A. Therefore there is a 32A breaker in the aft lazarette that feeds the panel. You have to check on your SM to see the wire sizing and shore power breaker sizing.
 
The only way to get the full 50A 230V to the panel is by the generator.
 
 
Respectfully;
Mohammad and Aty
B&B Kokomo
Amel 54 #099
 


From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 9:39 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Generator charging question

 

At first glance, I thought it could be dangerous to use multiple smart chargers because they could get into different states, but after thinking through all the possible combinations, I've convinced myself it is actually safe -- provided the total current is less than what the batteries can accept.  It might not produce the optimal results for your battery lifespan, though: they could transition from bulk to acceptance or acceptance to float before the battery is actually ready, because each charger can only sense its own contribution to the charge current.  Chargers in different stages shouldn't fight each other directly because they sense the current/voltage of the system.  Floating at different voltages should be safe; the charger with the lower float voltage would just not be doing anything.  If one or more chargers has a float voltage above that which the batteries are designed to handle, that would be bad... but that's also bad with just one charger.

I do not think it is safe to mix smart chargers and dumb chargers without knowing exactly how the dumb charger works.  It is conceivable that the dumb charger just puts out a constant voltage, and would act as a sink for a higher voltage -- then you'd get the two chargers directly fighting each other, possibly tripping breakers, and definitely wasting power.  The same could happen with two dumb chargers that have different voltage setpoints; presumably the ones Amel installed as stock were configured with the same voltage and/or were smart enough to shut off if they started acting as a sink.

As an aside, is a 16A shore power connection typical in some parts of the world?  At 230V, that's about the same wattage as the "small boat" 30A@120V connections in the USA.  A larger yacht like a Super Maramu is expected to connect to 50A@240V in the US, but usually also has the option of connecting to two 30A@120V connections.  I assume you can't connect to two 16A@230V connections because the 230V parts of the world don't use a split-phase power system like we do in the US, but perhaps I'm wrong about that.

Thanks,
Ryan
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA


On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 2:11 AM, svperegrinus@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Our solar chargers by Genasun are not properly adjustable to the voltages required by Trojan for our AGM batteries.  So we disconnect solar when on shorepower to prevent over-voltage charging of full batteries.


We routinely turn on both battery chargers as follows:

(1) When charging from the generator.
(2) When we will have shore power for only one day or two.

Evidently after one hour or less the batteries charge at less than 100 A, and at this point it makes no difference whether you have one or both chargers on.  So we routinely turn one off.

Cheers,

Peregrinus
SM2K N. 350 (2002)
Herzliya



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Side Windows loose screws

James Alton
 

Oliver,

   It was very kind of you to  take the time to answer my question about whether balsa core was used in the vertical sides of the roof where the side windows are installed.  

Thank you very much!

James Alton
SV Sueño
Maramu #220
Arbatax,  Italy

On Jan 10, 2018, at 9:58 AM, Beaute Olivier atlanticyachtsurvey@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Hello James, Herbert and JP,

the vertical sides of the roof, where the side windows and their S/S frames are installed are NOT balsa cored. This is just plain GRP.
On SMs and SAs, the S/S frame-GRP-plexiglas window-wooden frame are attached to gether with screws and bolts (one screw- one bolt).
Once the screws/bolts heads move, the silicone seal is broken and there may be water ingress. It's time to remove all screws-bolts and put new silicone filler. But the window will stay in place.
The nuts for the bolts are accessible under the wooden trim ( above and below window ) that is nailed into the wooden frame.

If the window itself is leaking (broken), then it's a much bigger job...

Olivier


On Wednesday, January 10, 2018 12:48 PM, "James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 
Hello,

   Can anyone tell me if the cabin sides on the latter  (my hull # is 220) Maramus are balsa cored in the area of the windows?

Thanks,

James 

SV Sueño

Maramu #220

Arbatax,  Italy

On Jan 8, 2018, at 7:26 PM, James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

JPG,

   You mentioned removing the balsa.  So the cabin sides of the SM are cored with balsa as opposed to being just one solid laminate?  It would be nice to know the construction since window replacement is on my short list as well. Actually if there is core in there I am going to move it to the top of the list!   I used to use cut down  allen wrenches shaped and sharpened to form cutting edges (in place of the bent nail) to cut out a core but found a better solution.  You can get small saw blades for your dremel and these make core removal fast and you can also use the blades to abrade the inside edges of the glass to give your epoxy a good bond.  It’s a bit of a pain but you can extract essentially all of the water that entered the holes by using vacuum. You can use the same basic supplies and set up that is normally used for vacuum bagging,  just add a good water separator to protect your pump.  It is always better to get the water out before sealing things up if at all possible..  Kept completely dry, balsa lasts pretty much forever, good stuff.

   I hope that you are having a great time in the Bahamas!

Best,

James

SV Sueño,  Maramu #220

On Jan 8, 2018, at 4:48 PM, Jean-Pierre's MacBook Air jgermain@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Hello Herbert,

I encountered the same problem on my SM when I recaulked the side windows.  

First option: The screws are not long enough to traverse into the wood trim on the inside of the cabin.  Procure various length M6 screws and drill through to the inside.  Pack with lots of Sikaflex and finish the work with a nice looking ball nut on the wood trim.  

Other option: this is what I did.  Make the hole bigger, but no larger in diameter than the width of the SS strip (about 14 MM if memory serves me right), clean out the wet balsa with a nail bent to 90 degrees on the end of your drill, fill with epoxy then drill a pilot hole where needed and reuse the original hardware.

Good luck,



Jean-Pierre Germain
SY Eleuthera, SM007
Shelter Bay Marina


On 8 Jan 2018, at 16:03, herbert@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Many of the screws that hold the stainless frame of the side windows are loose on our Santorin and some are not holding good enough to allow tightening. It looks as they ar e just screwed through to wooden panel that is used as a packing plate at the inside. Did anyone replace these screws already? What is the best solution to fix that? 

thx, Herbert
SN120 KALI MERA, Shelter Bay, Panama











Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] electrolysis on jib furling gearbox?

Ryan Meador
 

It's been a while since I've studied this, but I don't think this is electrolysis in the typical sense (even though in most cases people misuse that word to mean "galvanic corrosion").  Galvanic isolators and zincs only afford protection to submerged metal where the ocean completes the circuit.  Dissimilar metals in direct contact with each other will galvanically corrode on their own, no ocean required.  The solution is to make sure they don't touch using some type of isolating grease.  I think Tef-Gel is the brand usually recommended for this type of thing.

Ryan
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA


On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 12:54 PM, 'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Peter,

I have one end of this grouper permanently attached to the bonding at the fuel fill bonding clamp.

As soon as I pull into a marina I always drop it over the side. I had to rig a line to the groupers cable so there was not stain on the wire. You would be surprised how quickly the grouper gets dissolve in some marinas.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com [mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 11:40 AM
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] electrolysis on jib furling gearbox?

 

 

Peter,

 

While you are waiting to install a galvanic isolator, consider buying an additional easy to install (i.e. no haul out required) sacrificial anode like this one or similar:  https://www.amazon.com/Martyr-CMGROUPERZ-Alloy-Grouper-Hanging/dp/B001TK98LM

 

It can be connected to the green/yellow bonding wire at a terminal in the Aft locker and then just hung off the back of the boat.  It will give you some additional protection of your underwater metal until you get the issue sorted.   

 

Mark McGovern

SM #440 Cara

Deale, MD USA 

 



Re: Generator charging question

svperegrinus@yahoo.com
 

Ryan,

We've run both Mastervolt chargers at the same time for years (100A & 30A).  

No, if the chargers are properly set to charge at the voltages recommended by the battery manufacturer, it is impossible to overcharge the batteries, because each charger senses what the other one is doing.  


Cheerio,


Mystery Part

Chuck_Kim_Joy
 

Hi All,

I had some work done on the bow thruster. When the person finished up and left this was left on the forward berth. I queried a few people but they had no idea. So I put the question to the masses. Thanks for your time.


Regards,

Chuck

s/v Joy

SM2K #388


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Gasket for Hatches

eric freedman
 

Hi Kent,

Did you try contacting Budget Marine in St Maarten?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 12:21 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Gasket for Hatches

 

 

Hi all,
RigRite says it will be a month or more before they have Goiot Tradition hatch gaskets available.

Does anyone have another source? Joel, is there anyone in S Florida who would have them?

Has anyone used another gasket material?

Does anyone have the dimensions and hardness of the Goiot gaskets?

HatchMasters says they've sold a round profile gasket for these hatches, but won't give a size recommendation.

Thanks for any help.

Kent
SM243 Kristy
Currently Ft Lauderdale


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] electrolysis on jib furling gearbox?

eric freedman
 

Peter,

I have one end of this grouper permanently attached to the bonding at the fuel fill bonding clamp.

As soon as I pull into a marina I always drop it over the side. I had to rig a line to the groupers cable so there was not stain on the wire. You would be surprised how quickly the grouper gets dissolve in some marinas.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 11:40 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] electrolysis on jib furling gearbox?

 

 

Peter,

 

While you are waiting to install a galvanic isolator, consider buying an additional easy to install (i.e. no haul out required) sacrificial anode like this one or similar:  https://www.amazon.com/Martyr-CMGROUPERZ-Alloy-Grouper-Hanging/dp/B001TK98LM

 

It can be connected to the green/yellow bonding wire at a terminal in the Aft locker and then just hung off the back of the boat.  It will give you some additional protection of your underwater metal until you get the issue sorted.   

 

Mark McGovern

SM #440 Cara

Deale, MD USA 

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Generator charging question

Ryan Meador
 

At first glance, I thought it could be dangerous to use multiple smart chargers because they could get into different states, but after thinking through all the possible combinations, I've convinced myself it is actually safe -- provided the total current is less than what the batteries can accept.  It might not produce the optimal results for your battery lifespan, though: they could transition from bulk to acceptance or acceptance to float before the battery is actually ready, because each charger can only sense its own contribution to the charge current.  Chargers in different stages shouldn't fight each other directly because they sense the current/voltage of the system.  Floating at different voltages should be safe; the charger with the lower float voltage would just not be doing anything.  If one or more chargers has a float voltage above that which the batteries are designed to handle, that would be bad... but that's also bad with just one charger.

I do not think it is safe to mix smart chargers and dumb chargers without knowing exactly how the dumb charger works.  It is conceivable that the dumb charger just puts out a constant voltage, and would act as a sink for a higher voltage -- then you'd get the two chargers directly fighting each other, possibly tripping breakers, and definitely wasting power.  The same could happen with two dumb chargers that have different voltage setpoints; presumably the ones Amel installed as stock were configured with the same voltage and/or were smart enough to shut off if they started acting as a sink.

As an aside, is a 16A shore power connection typical in some parts of the world?  At 230V, that's about the same wattage as the "small boat" 30A@120V connections in the USA.  A larger yacht like a Super Maramu is expected to connect to 50A@240V in the US, but usually also has the option of connecting to two 30A@120V connections.  I assume you can't connect to two 16A@230V connections because the 230V parts of the world don't use a split-phase power system like we do in the US, but perhaps I'm wrong about that.

Thanks,
Ryan
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA


On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 2:11 AM, svperegrinus@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Our solar chargers by Genasun are not properly adjustable to the voltages required by Trojan for our AGM batteries.  So we disconnect solar when on shorepower to prevent over-voltage charging of full batteries.


We routinely turn on both battery chargers as follows:

(1) When charging from the generator.
(2) When we will have shore power for only one day or two.

Evidently after one hour or less the batteries charge at less than 100 A, and at this point it makes no difference whether you have one or both chargers on.  So we routinely turn one off.

Cheers,

Peregrinus
SM2K N. 350 (2002)
Herzliya



Re: Gasket for Hatches

karkauai
 

Hi all,
RigRite says it will be a month or more before they have Goiot Tradition hatch gaskets available.

Does anyone have another source? Joel, is there anyone in S Florida who would have them?

Has anyone used another gasket material?

Does anyone have the dimensions and hardness of the Goiot gaskets?

HatchMasters says they've sold a round profile gasket for these hatches, but won't give a size recommendation.

Thanks for any help.

Kent
SM243 Kristy
Currently Ft Lauderdale


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] electrolysis on jib furling gearbox? [1 Attachment]

mfmcgovern@...
 

Peter,

While you are waiting to install a galvanic isolator, consider buying an additional easy to install (i.e. no haul out required) sacrificial anode like this one or similar:  https://www.amazon.com/Martyr-CMGROUPERZ-Alloy-Grouper-Hanging/dp/B001TK98LM

It can be connected to the green/yellow bonding wire at a terminal in the Aft locker and then just hung off the back of the boat.  It will give you some additional protection of your underwater metal until you get the issue sorted.   

Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA 
 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Coppercoat?

ianjenkins1946 <ianjudyjenkins@hotmail.com>
 

Hi Bernard, Mark,


 We have had Coppercoat on since 2010. As reported before on this site we had mixed views the first season--the boat had been stationary in a muddy river in the UK for 6 months after application and in particular we hadn't given is a gentle sanding down before launch.

 Since then we have been very happy, though it's fair to say that the boat is now ashore most winters. We've been in the Med all this time, except for a few months on the west coast of Scotland.


A little slime builds up after a couple of months but comes off very easily.


 Application is actually pretty easy, though as with all such jobs it's important to prepare properly. In our case that meant sand blasting 10 years of antifouling. The guy who did it used a machine so precise that the gel coat looked as though it had just left the mould.


 At that point get a surveyor to run his moisture meter over the hull and give you a written report that it is in good order. After that, in our case, they had to slightly roughen up the gelcoat surface as we chose to put two coats of ordinary epoxy on before the Coppercoat. The iron keel needs to treated carefully with appropriate epoxy on a completely dry day.


 Once that preparation had been done, painting on the Coppercoat was very simple using a roller. It's a water based paint. It's really important to mix one litre at a time as the copper powder is heavy. You need one person mixing while another rolls. You can pretty well roll one coat straight away on another. There is not a lot of drying time needed--check on the instructions.


 We had sanded and painted antifouling for 33 years before we found Coppercoat and it achieves for us everything we hoped for.


 Ian and Judy, Pen Azen, SM 302, Preveza, Greece


From: amelyachtowners@... <amelyachtowners@...> on behalf of 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners]
Sent: 09 January 2018 20:19:43
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Coppercoat?
 


Part of the argument for Copper Coat is their claim you save money not having to haul the boat as often. However, you will still need to haul an Amel to do drive maintenance. Therefore, not much of a savings when you think about it.

 

Also, the procedure to apply Copper Coat is not something an everyday boat yard does often or knows how to do. It is not as easy to apply as paint.

 

My 2 cents

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Martinique

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 9, 2018 11:11 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Coppercoat?

 

 

Hello there
I’d be interested if n group members thoughts and ideas experience with coppercoat
Assuming the hull is dry and well prepared etc
All the best for the new year
Miles
Maramu




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Side Windows loose screws

Beaute Olivier
 

Hello James, Herbert and JP,

the vertical sides of the roof, where the side windows and their S/S frames are installed are NOT balsa cored. This is just plain GRP.
On SMs and SAs, the S/S frame-GRP-plexiglas window-wooden frame are attached to gether with screws and bolts (one screw- one bolt).
Once the screws/bolts heads move, the silicone seal is broken and there may be water ingress. It's time to remove all screws-bolts and put new silicone filler. But the window will stay in place.
The nuts for the bolts are accessible under the wooden trim ( above and below window ) that is nailed into the wooden frame.

If the window itself is leaking (broken), then it's a much bigger job...

Olivier


On Wednesday, January 10, 2018 12:48 PM, "James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote:


 
Hello,

   Can anyone tell me if the cabin sides on the latter  (my hull # is 220) Maramus are balsa cored in the area of the windows?

Thanks,

James 

SV Sueño

Maramu #220

Arbatax,  Italy

On Jan 8, 2018, at 7:26 PM, James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

JPG,

   You mentioned removing the balsa.  So the cabin sides of the SM are cored with balsa as opposed to being just one solid laminate?  It would be nice to know the construction since window replacement is on my short list as well. Actually if there is core in there I am going to move it to the top of the list!   I used to use cut down  allen wrenches shaped and sharpened to form cutting edges (in place of the bent nail) to cut out a core but found a better solution.  You can get small saw blades for your dremel and these make core removal fast and you can also use the blades to abrade the inside edges of the glass to give your epoxy a good bond.  It’s a bit of a pain but you can extract essentially all of the water that entered the holes by using vacuum. You can use the same basic supplies and set up that is normally used for vacuum bagging,  just add a good water separator to protect your pump.  It is always better to get the water out before sealing things up if at all possible..  Kept completely dry, balsa lasts pretty much forever, good stuff.

   I hope that you are having a great time in the Bahamas!

Best,

James

SV Sueño,  Maramu #220

On Jan 8, 2018, at 4:48 PM, Jean-Pierre's MacBook Air jgermain@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Hello Herbert,

I encountered the same problem on my SM when I recaulked the side windows.  

First option: The screws are not long enough to traverse into the wood trim on the inside of the cabin.  Procure various length M6 screws and drill through to the inside.  Pack with lots of Sikaflex and finish the work with a nice looking ball nut on the wood trim.  

Other option: this is what I did.  Make the hole bigger, but no larger in diameter than the width of the SS strip (about 14 MM if memory serves me right), clean out the wet balsa with a nail bent to 90 degrees on the end of your drill, fill with epoxy then drill a pilot hole where needed and reuse the original hardware.

Good luck,



Jean-Pierre Germain
SY Eleuthera, SM007
Shelter Bay Marina


On 8 Jan 2018, at 16:03, herbert@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Many of the screws that hold the stainless frame of the side windows are loose on our Santorin and some are not holding good enough to allow tightening. It looks as they ar e just screwed through to wooden panel that is used as a packing plate at the inside. Did anyone replace these screws already? What is the best solution to fix that? 

thx, Herbert
SN120 KALI MERA, Shelter Bay, Panama









Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] electrolysis on jib furling gearbox?

amelforme
 

Any time, Peter.

 

All The Best, Joel

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 8:54 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] electrolysis on jib furling gearbox?

 

 

thanks Joel,

Yes your absolutely correct about the fishing boats.  The marina also has many derelict boats and live-aboards on vessels well past their prime.  I will pursue the galvanic isolator.  I wan't sure about the grease coming out of the bottom of the gearbox, but I'm one to investigate until my confidence builds.  it turns out there were "dry" pockets within the gearbox, and the upper bearings had significant rust and no longer turned smoothly.

 

Thanks for the history and advice

 

Peter de Groot

La Querida

SM #207


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] electrolysis on jib furling gearbox?

Peter de Groot
 

Thank you 
Mohammad and Aty,

Your recommendation is appreciated.

Yes I realized to late that I didn't include my name!

Peter de Groot
La Querida
SM #207