Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Generator charging question

greatketch@...
 

Chuck,

The original Amel shore power system was designed to carry a maximum of 16 amps at 220V.  If the world was perfect, we would only ever plug into 220V shore power supplies that had 16 amp breakers in them, and we'd be protected inside and outside the boat.  The world is not perfect.

To be rigorous about it, a breaker on the boat does not absolutely protect the shore power cord, since there COULD be a short circuit in the cord upstream of the breaker, but it is much better than nothing.

In French wiring, the usual breakers are 5, 10, 16, and 32 amps.

In USA wiring standard breakers are 7.5, 15, 20, 30 and 50 amps.

If you connect to USA 50 amp shore power supply, you would be best to use a double pole breaker since you would want BOTH hot wires to break in case of a problem.

Assuming your wiring is identical with the original standard factory install, If you can, the best breaker to use for shore power would be a European 16 amp double pole breaker.  Second best would be a American 15 amp double pole breaker for ~7% less available power.

Bill Kinney
Sm160, Hamonie
Grand Bahama Is.


---In amelyachtowners@..., <clacey9@...> wrote :

I should be an expert by now reading through two days worth of posts. But here is my simple question and takeaway from all this. If i choose to install a breaker right inside the lazz to protect the original shore cord would I use a 15 or 20 amp breaker. Or just monitor amperage. Or replace cord that can handle 30 amps as that is the breaker into 220v panel?

Chuck
SM2K #388 Joy



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Gasket for Hatches

Patrick McAneny
 

Kent, It was so flattened out that I did not notice or even looked.
Sorry,
Pat SM #123


-----Original Message-----
From: Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Fri, Jan 12, 2018 5:56 am
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Gasket for Hatches

 
Thanks Pat.  I'm still in Ft Lauderdale and can get them shipped to me here.

Was the original gasket hollow in cross section?  I read somewhere here that it was a trapezoidal shaped gasket.

Hi to Diane!

Kent
S/V Kristy
SM 243


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Generator charging question

Chuck_Kim_Joy
 

I should be an expert by now reading through two days worth of posts. But here is my simple question and takeaway from all this. If i choose to install a breaker right inside the lazz to protect the original shore cord would I use a 15 or 20 amp breaker. Or just monitor amperage. Or replace cord that can handle 30 amps as that is the breaker into 220v panel?

Chuck
SM2K #388 Joy

On Fri, Jan 12, 2018 at 1:20 PM, Ryan Meador ryan.d.meador@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Bill,
Thank you for that data sheet.  I had not discovered it before.  It contains one piece of info that is new: the temperature rating is 85°C.  That means, by the ABYC chart, that its current rating is somewhere between 15-23A.  I guess the system really is designed for 16A shore power.  I have been overloading it... all the more reason I need to upgrade!  I apologize to anyone who I misled with my incomplete information.

Thanks,
Ryan
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA


On Fri, Jan 12, 2018 at 2:13 PM, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Ryan,


This looks like your cable...


Nothing new there you haven't already figured out...


Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Grand Bahama Is.




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Generator charging question

Ryan Meador
 

Hi Bill,
Thank you for that data sheet.  I had not discovered it before.  It contains one piece of info that is new: the temperature rating is 85°C.  That means, by the ABYC chart, that its current rating is somewhere between 15-23A.  I guess the system really is designed for 16A shore power.  I have been overloading it... all the more reason I need to upgrade!  I apologize to anyone who I misled with my incomplete information.

Thanks,
Ryan
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA


On Fri, Jan 12, 2018 at 2:13 PM, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Ryan,


This looks like your cable...


Nothing new there you haven't already figured out...


Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Grand Bahama Is.



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Generator charging question

greatketch@...
 

Ryan,

This looks like your cable: 


Nothing you have not already figured out...

Bill Kinney
SM160,  Harmonie
Grand Bahama Is.


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Generator charging question

greatketch@...
 

Ryan,

This looks like your cable...


Nothing new there you haven't already figured out...


Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Grand Bahama Is.


Re: 24 Volt Outlet

Duane Siegfri
 

Thanks Bill R!


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Generator charging question

Ryan Meador
 

Hi Eric,
The cable reads "Silec Tenaflex SR 3G2.5mm2 USE H07 RNF 221".  That seems to pretty clearly mean the conductors are 2.5 sq mm, though if you think differently, please let me know.  This corresponds to approximately 13AWG, as you say.  The chart you linked does not list current limits, but the one I linked earlier does (if you fix the link. Yahoo seems to enjoy adding extra dots; it did the same for yours the first time).  I have not been able to divine the temperature rating of the wire, but 105°C does not seem unreasonable given the manufacturer claims it's good for high temperature environments (I contacted them early this week but haven't heard back).  Thus, I conclude from the table it rated for 26A under ABYC standards.  I do not know why this would be more permissive than USA building code, but I wonder if it might have something to do with the temperature rating.  I haven't been able to find a solid source for the temperature rating of Romex, but it sounds like it might be 60°C.

Thanks,
Ryan
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA


On Fri, Jan 12, 2018 at 10:36 AM, 'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Ryan are you meaning 2.5 mm diameter cable this is 10 gauge.  2.5 sq (cross section ) is something like 13 USA gauge.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

From: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com [mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2018 10:15 PM
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Generator charging question

 

 

My shore power cable has 2.5 sq mm conductors, according to the printing on the jacket.  This ABYC wire sizing chart suggests the maximum current for a cable of 3 conductors of that size is 26A.  I was under the impression it's rated for 35A because when I plug in the relevant info into the ABYC wire size calculator app, it says "10AWG or 2.5 sq mm"...  But apparently the metric value is calculated according to ISO, not ABYC, standards.  So at least somebody thinks it's rated for that..  I haven't been able to figure out what standard the app is referring to as "ISO", so I have no idea if that's something safe to rely on.  I guess I'll have be more careful about my usage than I thought!  Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

 

Ryan

SM 233 Iteration

Boston, MA, USA

 

 

On Thu, Jan 11, 2018 at 3:01 PM, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

The variable start timer is a standard feature on most small marine AC units where the manufacturer would reasonably expect more than one unit to be installed on a boat.

 

If you have multiple AC units that are starting at the same time, dig into the manual.  You will most likely find a way to alter the timing so they stagger-start when powered up at the same time.

 

Climmia, Cruiseair, and MarinAire--among others--have this feature.

 

Bill Kinney

SM160, Harmonie

Grand Bahama Is.

 



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Generator charging question

Eric Freedman
 

Ryan are you meaning 2.5 mm diameter cable this is 10 gauge.  2.5 sq (cross section ) is something like 13 USA gauge.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2018 10:15 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Generator charging question

 

 

My shore power cable has 2.5 sq mm conductors, according to the printing on the jacket.  This ABYC wire sizing chart suggests the maximum current for a cable of 3 conductors of that size is 26A.  I was under the impression it's rated for 35A because when I plug in the relevant info into the ABYC wire size calculator app, it says "10AWG or 2.5 sq mm"...  But apparently the metric value is calculated according to ISO, not ABYC, standards.  So at least somebody thinks it's rated for that.  I haven't been able to figure out what standard the app is referring to as "ISO", so I have no idea if that's something safe to rely on.  I guess I'll have be more careful about my usage than I thought!  Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

 

Ryan

SM 233 Iteration

Boston, MA, USA

 

 

On Thu, Jan 11, 2018 at 3:01 PM, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

The variable start timer is a standard feature on most small marine AC units where the manufacturer would reasonably expect more than one unit to be installed on a boat.

 

If you have multiple AC units that are starting at the same time, dig into the manual.  You will most likely find a way to alter the timing so they stagger-start when powered up at the same time.

 

Climmia, Cruiseair, and MarinAire--among others--have this feature.

 

Bill Kinney

SM160, Harmonie

Grand Bahama Is.

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: 24 Volt Outlet

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Try this for the Amel sourced 24VDC plugs and receptacles:

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970


Re: 24 Volt Outlet

Duane Siegfri
 

Mark,
 thank you for offering to sell an outlet, but since Bill K provided the Amazon link I just bought it from there.  Easier for both of us.

Bill K -
You must have some wicked good search skills!  I looked on Amazon for a long time and didn't find it.

Thank you!
Duane


Re: 24 Volt Outlet

Duane Siegfri
 

Mark, since Bill K. had the link to the outlet on Amazon I ordered it from there, but thank you for offering to sell one to me.

Bill K. 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Gasket for Hatches

karkauai
 

Thanks Pat.  I'm still in Ft Lauderdale and can get them shipped to me here.

Was the original gasket hollow in cross section?  I read somewhere here that it was a trapezoidal shaped gasket.

Hi to Diane!

Kent
S/V Kristy
SM 243


Re: 24 Volt Outlet

svperegrinus@yahoo.com
 

We added one 24v Italian outlet (brown) below the 230v outlet above the desk in the aft cabin.

That's where the Lind/Mikegyver 24v to Apple Smart Connector for laptop converter plugs in, so we can use the laptop w/o having to turn on the inverter while at anchor.

We use one extra Italian plug to profit from the 24v outlet installed by the Amel factory above the refrigerator's countertop (i.e., starboardmost on the floor of the forward autopilot drive's cabinet), and which is powered by the same "stoplight"-icon breaker used to power the compass light.  We then run that cable topside and power iPads from it while sailing, although at anchor we've used it to power the laptop.

Cheerio,

Peregrinus
SM2K N. 350 (2002)
Herzliya Marina, Israel


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Generator charging question

Eric Freedman
 

Ryan,

Wiring in a building here in the USA when 12 gauge wire is used is a 20 amp circuit with a breaker.

10 gauge is 30 amps. I believe your boat was rewired with 10 gauge.

 

What is the writing on the cable.

This is the chart that I had sent in another email.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/awg-wire-gauge-d_731.html

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2018 10:15 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Generator charging question

 

 

My shore power cable has 2.5 sq mm conductors, according to the printing on the jacket.  This ABYC wire sizing chart suggests the maximum current for a cable of 3 conductors of that size is 26A.  I was under the impression it's rated for 35A because when I plug in the relevant info into the ABYC wire size calculator app, it says "10AWG or 2.5 sq mm"...  But apparently the metric value is calculated according to ISO, not ABYC, standards.  So at least somebody thinks it's rated for that.  I haven't been able to figure out what standard the app is referring to as "ISO", so I have no idea if that's something safe to rely on.  I guess I'll have be more careful about my usage than I thought!  Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

 

Ryan

SM 233 Iteration

Boston, MA, USA

 

 

On Thu, Jan 11, 2018 at 3:01 PM, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

The variable start timer is a standard feature on most small marine AC units where the manufacturer would reasonably expect more than one unit to be installed on a boat.

 

If you have multiple AC units that are starting at the same time, dig into the manual.  You will most likely find a way to alter the timing so they stagger-start when powered up at the same time.

 

Climmia, Cruiseair, and MarinAire--among others--have this feature.

 

Bill Kinney

SM160, Harmonie

Grand Bahama Is.

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Generator charging question

Ryan Meador
 

My shore power cable has 2.5 sq mm conductors, according to the printing on the jacket.  This ABYC wire sizing chart suggests the maximum current for a cable of 3 conductors of that size is 26A.  I was under the impression it's rated for 35A because when I plug in the relevant info into the ABYC wire size calculator app, it says "10AWG or 2.5 sq mm"...  But apparently the metric value is calculated according to ISO, not ABYC, standards.  So at least somebody thinks it's rated for that.  I haven't been able to figure out what standard the app is referring to as "ISO", so I have no idea if that's something safe to rely on.  I guess I'll have be more careful about my usage than I thought!  Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

Ryan
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA


On Thu, Jan 11, 2018 at 3:01 PM, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

The variable start timer is a standard feature on most small marine AC units where the manufacturer would reasonably expect more than one unit to be installed on a boat.


If you have multiple AC units that are starting at the same time, dig into the manual.  You will most likely find a way to alter the timing so they stagger-start when powered up at the same time.

Climmia, Cruiseair, and MarinAire--among others--have this feature.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Grand Bahama Is.



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: 24 Volt Outlet

Chuck_Kim_Joy
 

Arrrgg. I just paid $10 per on ebay.

On Thu, Jan 11, 2018 at 3:48 PM, Mark Pitt mark_pitt@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Or you can but the same plugs that Amel uses and sells but get them way cheaper from amazon.it (Italy).  They are:

https://www.amazon.it/gp/product/B00OU0I2J2/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A11IL2PNWYJU7H

3.10 euros each.  I put 10 in my basket and shipping to the US with Amazon Global Standard came out to 5.25 euros.  In addition, if you have an account at the US Amazon (or other country), it will work at amazon.it. It knows your US address and credit card info in addition to your account name as password.

Mark Pitt

Sabbatical III, SM#419


On 1/11/2018 5:22 PM, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:


The outlets that Amel used for 24 volt power are standard mains outlets--in Italy.  They are officially referred to as "Type L" outlets.

They are hard to source in the US, but are available here:

Amel's standard wiring for these was  +24V on the two outer pins, and -24V on the center pin.  Note that the 10 amp rating should be respected for 24V as well.

And should you need a gang of three outlets:

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Grand Bahama Is.





Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: 24 Volt Outlet

Mark Pitt
 

Or you can but the same plugs that Amel uses and sells but get them way cheaper from amazon.it (Italy).  They are:

https://www.amazon.it/gp/product/B00OU0I2J2/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A11IL2PNWYJU7H

3.10 euros each.  I put 10 in my basket and shipping to the US with Amazon Global Standard came out to 5.25 euros.  In addition, if you have an account at the US Amazon (or other country), it will work at amazon.it. It knows your US address and credit card info in addition to your account name as password.

Mark Pitt

Sabbatical III, SM#419


On 1/11/2018 5:22 PM, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:


The outlets that Amel used for 24 volt power are standard mains outlets--in Italy.  They are officially referred to as "Type L" outlets.

They are hard to source in the US, but are available here:

Amel's standard wiring for these was  +24V on the two outer pins, and -24V on the center pin.  Note that the 10 amp rating should be respected for 24V as well.

And should you need a gang of three outlets:

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Grand Bahama Is.




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: 24 Volt Outlet

Chuck_Kim_Joy
 

Thank Bill,
I searched far and wide for the plugs. I thought I found them and purchased the 16 amp ones (bust). 1mm difference does not show well on the computer. I have now ordered 5 of these (10 amp).

Chuck
Joy

On Thu, Jan 11, 2018 at 3:22 PM, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

The outlets that Amel used for 24 volt power are standard mains outlets--in Italy.  They are officially referred to as "Type L" outlets.


They are hard to source in the US, but are available here:

Amel's standard wiring for these was  +24V on the two outer pins, and -24V on the center pin.  Note that the 10 amp rating should be respected for 24V as well.

And should you need a gang of three outlets:

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Grand Bahama Is.



Re: 24 Volt Outlet

greatketch@...
 

The outlets that Amel used for 24 volt power are standard mains outlets--in Italy.  They are officially referred to as "Type L" outlets.

They are hard to source in the US, but are available here:

Amel's standard wiring for these was  +24V on the two outer pins, and -24V on the center pin.  Note that the 10 amp rating should be respected for 24V as well.

And should you need a gang of three outlets:

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Grand Bahama Is.