On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 04:47 AM, simms@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 

Hi Miles, thanks for this. However I am fortunate not to be one of the major or total loss incidents. We had a surge from a nearby lightning strike. We were not hit but lost a lot of electronics from the surge. The insurers turned themselves inside out to make life as difficult as possible for us. In the end we got everything replaced with new equipment the same as we had. All good but cost us a lot. It was several years ago and all systems have worked fine ever since. I have talked it over with our new broker
Regards
Danny

Sent from my Vodafone Smart

On 17 Feb 2018 11:38, "'Miles Bidwell' milesbid@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hello Danny,

 

I have been following your sad story and I feel very badly for you.  It is of no value to you, but, on behalf of others,  I want to put in some comments following Eric’s post about Pantaenius insurance.  I had Pantaenius for 8 years in Europe after 6 months with Lloyds.  Pantaenius was about one-third the cost for better coverage.  I didn’t have any claims, but a friend had his boat almost destroyed on the hard by a hurricane in Granada.  He said that Pantaenius adjusters were the first on the scene.  His boat had a repair estimate (shipping back to France) about the same as the agreed value.  He chose to repair and still has the boat.   Pantaenius  Europe does not insure American owned boats in US waters (they don’t like trial lawyers) so I had to give it up when I came back. 

Now, Pantaenius has a US company affiliate (subsidiary?) and I again have their insurance.  I have an agreed upon value policy that appears to be exactly what they say it is.  There is no fine print.  We agreed upon the value after I had an appraiser go over my boat and list all of the things that I had added or replaced and the condition and we estimated a market value that Pantaenius accepted without question.   I did have a major claim a year ago after something big ran into my boat when it was on a mooring in Newport RI.  Pantaenius took care of their part without  difficulty for me and without any argument.  

 

Regards,

 

Miles  s/y Ladybug, sm216 in Port du Marin, Martinique

On 16 Feb 2018, at 18:27, Ian Park parkianj@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

You have to ensure copper coat is continually stirred while applying otherwise it may not work so well. Best advice is do it yourself. Advantages are it is an epoxy coat on top of your gel coat. You only have to jet wash and light sand prior to re launch. No build up of layers of anti foul. If you encounter any slime or shell you can use stainless steel scrubbers or paint scrapers while in the water. 
It works for us but understand it’s not everyone’s choice. 

Ian
Ocean Hobo SN96

On 17 February 2018 at 02:36 "Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

I think you should share his name and what he wrote.

Sincerely, Alexandre

--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 2/15/18, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Insurance. Does it deliver
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Thursday, February 15, 2018, 7:27 PM


 










Hi all,As I said before I was burned badly by
an insurance company. I changed brokers and have a
"agreed value" policy with my new broker.I
forwarded him some of the correspondence because, firstly I
wanted him to know what was going on and secondly to see
what he said regarding my "agreed Value" policy.
He has sent me a response which is helpful. He does have a
good name. Is it OK for me to share his reply with the
group. I'm not trying to promote him, just to add
something that may be
helpful.RegardsDannySM 299 Ocean
PearlMangonui 
New Zealand
On 16 February 2018 at 06:42
"Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@...
[amelyachtowners]"
<amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

  Alexandre,
Trust me, I for one will reread my policy with a more
critical eye. Its disgusting how an insurance company would
look for any excuse , even an invalid one to escape their
responsibly . I will guarantee that the vast majority of
boaters are not aware of these practices, and believe that
they have an umbrella of protection , that in reality does
not exist. I urge you guys to find a way to tell your story
to a wider audience.  Pat SM
Shenanigans


-----Original
Message-----
From: Alexandre Uster von Baar
uster@... [amelyachtowners]
<amelyachtowners@...>
To:
amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Thu, Feb 15, 2018 9:11 am
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner
saying goodbye

 Hello
Pat,

I totally agree
with you Danny.

This is
why my lawyer said it was a rip off to start with.
You are paying in good faith a higher premium
thinking you are covered, but you are not.


I URGE everybody to read their insurance
policies.
Most of you probably never even
receive it (I had to ask for mine).

I think as a boating community, if we group
ourselves we have a way to make things better.

Example on my insurance
policy it says in case of a name storm approaching you have
to:
remove anything that offers wind
resistance which is: bimini, sails, lazy bags, blade of wind
turbine, dinghy, etc. these items must be removed and store
inside the boat. As Rafael tragically find out, this also
include barbecues. That is why they say “anything” even
if not listed...
Then it says the boom
must be attached to the deck.
Then you
have to close all unnecessary sea cock.

Valuable objects such as electronics must be disassembled
and store on land...
Then you have to
“triple” the number of normal fenders, dock lines, etc.

IF YOU FAIL TO DO ANY OF THESE, the policy
is canceled.

I really
implore Rafael to tell his story…

Last week I met a french guy, so we chat, he
used to be hired by insurance adjuster to find
“anything” on a boat. He said, if there was a fire, the
insurance adjuster would hire him to find any electrical
welding (if I understood properly), as soon as they find 1,
even if it is at the top of the mast, the policy is void and
they don’t reimburse.
He said he was
disgusted and like many sailor I met now simply has
liability.

Alexandre


--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 2/15/18, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel
Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying goodbye
To:
amelyachtowners@...
Date: Thursday, February 15, 2018, 7:15 AM


 









The
insurance company based
the premiums on the Agreed value ,
and then
only will pay out based on what they determine the
market value is, because they don't want
you to be
enriched ! Did they not enrich
themselves by charging
excessive premiums
for coverage they probably never intended

to honor ? This kind of information needs to get out to
the
entire boating community through the
internet and sailing
magazines . I
encourage anyone treated unfairly to relate

their story , if  it results in lost business maybe they
will get the message. If 10% of those covered
by a company
cancelled and took their
business elsewhere and gave the
reason why
, it would get their attention. Its sad to lose a
dream .
Pat 

SM Shenanigans






-----Original
Message-----

From: Alexandre Uster von
Baar uster@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>

To: amelyachtowners
<amelyachtown

Sent:
Thu, Feb 15, 2018 6:34 am


Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying
goodbye








 













Good
morning Danny,





I also have an “agreed” policy (from
Helvetia through de
Lassee), BUT as my
lawyer told me, this is a rip off as, it
is
written on the contrat that the insurance has the right
to challenge the “agreed value” and pay
only the market
value because the owner
would “enrich” himself if case
of a
total loss. (meaning that: if you are reimburse the
agreed value, you would “enrich” yourself
getting more
than the market value).


That is
what my insurance is doing, so my lawyer ask me to
compile all the invoices for the last 5 years
to prove that
1) vessel was better equipped
justifying the agreed value,
2) vessel was
better maintained (justifying the higher

agreed value) 3) that my expenses were higher than the
average, etc...


So now I have my own
adjuster writing a full report with all
the
details.


We have been working since November on this.






So for
anyone thinking they are safely covered with an
“agreed” value, please read your entire
policy. If you
want I can show the specific
section where what I just
explained is
written. That will be in french in my case.






Sincerely, Alexandre






--------------------------------------------


On Wed,
2/14/18, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:





Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner
saying
goodbye


To: amelyachtowners@...


Date:
Wednesday, February 14, 2018, 10:51 PM








 
































I too have been raped by
insurers in the past. I now


have a policy with an
"agreed Value" . I hope
that


would help
in the case of a write off.DannySM


299 Ocean PearlOn 15
February 2018 at 11:19



"Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...



[amelyachtowners]"



<amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:





  Dear Rafael,








I think you need to tell


the Group
“your” story about the insurance.





We have the same
insurance


Helvetia contracted through de Lassee and I
really think


every Amel owner should know the ridiculous
excuses they


used to remove 30% of the value of your boat.






It is not
“my” place to


tell everybody the way they treated “you”,
but I
will


write mine with all the
details when it will be settled.






I am
definitely sorry that


your vessel was destroy soon after you
purchased her and
did


not had the joy of sailing
her.







Sincerely, Alexandre









--------------------------------------------


On Wed,
2/14/18, rcavie


<no_reply@...>
wrote:





Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner
saying



goodbye



To:


amelyachtowners@...


Date:


Wednesday,
February 14, 2018, 1:57 PM








 





























Dear


friends AMEL ownersProbably
this



will be



the last email that I send and I will withdraw from


the
group. The reason is that Hurricane


Irma


destroyed my Amel SM2k and
it will be


impossible for me to


recover it.The


insurance
will only pay a fraction of


what


it would cost me to buy an
equal one. Deductibles and


other reasons.This situation
not only


destroyed my


ship but my dreams. My
dreams



of living on board with my


wife, my dreams


of
crossing the Atlantic to the East, my





dreams of sailing the
Mediterranean and perhaps other


seas


and finally returning to the
beautiful


South of



Chile.



In this



group I gained friends



and knowledge and


for that,
I thank each and every one of





you, especially Eric and
Alexandre who from the
beginning


helped me
with their advice.





If


you sail to Chile you will have a


friend



here.Greetings to





all


Fair


windsRafaelSM2k


246

On 16 February 2018 at 14:27 "Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Hi all,

As I said before I was burned badly by an insurance company. I changed brokers and have a "agreed value" policy with my new broker.

I forwarded him some of the correspondence because, firstly I wanted him to know what was going on and secondly to see what he said regarding my "agreed Value" policy. He has sent me a response which is helpful. He does have a good name. Is it OK for me to share his reply with the group. I'm not trying to promote him, just to add something that may be helpful.

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

Mangonui 
New Zealand

On 16 February 2018 at 06:42 "Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Alexandre, Trust me, I for one will reread my policy with a more critical eye. Its disgusting how an insurance company would look for any excuse , even an invalid one to escape their responsibly . I will guarantee that the vast majority of boaters are not aware of these practices, and believe that they have an umbrella of protection , that in reality does not exist. I urge you guys to find a way to tell your story to a wider audience. 

Pat 

SM Shenanigans

-----Original Message-----
From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Thu, Feb 15, 2018 9:11 am
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying goodbye

 

Hello Pat,

I totally agree with you Danny.

This is why my lawyer said it was a rip off to start with.
You are paying in good faith a higher premium thinking you are covered, but you are not.

I URGE everybody to read their insurance policies.
Most of you probably never even receive it (I had to ask for mine).

I think as a boating community, if we group ourselves we have a way to make things better.

Example on my insurance policy it says in case of a name storm approaching you have to:
remove anything that offers wind resistance which is: bimini, sails, lazy bags, blade of wind turbine, dinghy, etc. these items must be removed and store inside the boat. As Rafael tragically find out, this also include barbecues. That is why they say “anything” even if not listed...
Then it says the boom must be attached to the deck.
Then you have to close all unnecessary sea cock.
Valuable objects such as electronics must be disassembled and store on land...
Then you have to “triple” the number of normal fenders, dock lines, etc.
IF YOU FAIL TO DO ANY OF THESE, the policy is canceled.

I really implore Rafael to tell his story…

Last week I met a french guy, so we chat, he used to be hired by insurance adjuster to find “anything” on a boat. He said, if there was a fire, the insurance adjuster would hire him to find any electrical welding (if I understood properly), as soon as they find 1, even if it is at the top of the mast, the policy is void and they don’t reimburse.
He said he was disgusted and like many sailor I met now simply has liability.

Alexandre

--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 2/15/18, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying goodbye
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Thursday, February 15, 2018, 7:15 AM


 









The
insurance company based the premiums on the Agreed value ,
and then only will pay out based on what they determine the
market value is, because they don't want you to be
enriched ! Did they not enrich themselves by charging
excessive premiums for coverage they probably never intended
to honor ? This kind of information needs to get out to the
entire boating community through the internet and sailing
magazines . I encourage anyone treated unfairly to relate
their story , if  it results in lost business maybe they
will get the message. If 10% of those covered by a company
cancelled and took their business elsewhere and gave the
reason why , it would get their attention. Its sad to lose a
dream .
Pat 

SM Shenanigans






-----Original
Message-----

From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>

To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtown

Sent: Thu, Feb 15, 2018 6:34 am

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying
goodbye








 













Good morning Danny,





I also have an “agreed” policy (from Helvetia through de
Lassee), BUT as my lawyer told me, this is a rip off as, it
is written on the contrat that the insurance has the right
to challenge the “agreed value” and pay only the market
value because the owner would “enrich” himself if case
of a total loss. (meaning that: if you are reimburse the
agreed value, you would “enrich” yourself getting more
than the market value).


That is what my insurance is doing, so my lawyer ask me to
compile all the invoices for the last 5 years to prove that
1) vessel was better equipped justifying the agreed value,
2) vessel was better maintained (justifying the higher
agreed value) 3) that my expenses were higher than the
average, etc...


So now I have my own adjuster writing a full report with all
the details.


We have been working since November on this.





So for anyone thinking they are safely covered with an
“agreed” value, please read your entire policy. If you
want I can show the specific section where what I just
explained is written. That will be in french in my case.





Sincerely, Alexandre





--------------------------------------------


On Wed, 2/14/18, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:





Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying
goodbye


To: amelyachtowners@...


Date: Wednesday, February 14, 2018, 10:51 PM








 
































I too have been raped by insurers in the past. I now


have a policy with an "agreed Value" . I hope
that


would help in the case of a write off.DannySM


299 Ocean PearlOn 15 February 2018 at 11:19


"Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...


[amelyachtowners]"


<amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:





  Dear Rafael,








I think you need to tell


the Group “your” story about the insurance.





We have the same insurance


Helvetia contracted through de Lassee and I really think


every Amel owner should know the ridiculous excuses they


used to remove 30% of the value of your boat.





It is not “my” place to


tell everybody the way they treated “you”, but I
will


write mine with all the details when it will be settled.






I am definitely sorry that


your vessel was destroy soon after you purchased her and
did


not had the joy of sailing her.





Sincerely, Alexandre








--------------------------------------------


On Wed, 2/14/18, rcavie


<no_reply@...>
wrote:





Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying


goodbye


To:


amelyachtowners@...


Date:


Wednesday, February 14, 2018, 1:57 PM








 





























Dear


friends AMEL ownersProbably this


will be


the last email that I send and I will withdraw from


the group. The reason is that Hurricane


Irma


destroyed my Amel SM2k and it will be


impossible for me to


recover it.The


insurance will only pay a fraction of


what


it would cost me to buy an equal one. Deductibles and


other reasons.This situation not only


destroyed my


ship but my dreams. My dreams


of living on board with my


wife, my dreams


of crossing the Atlantic to the East, my





dreams of sailing the Mediterranean and perhaps other


seas


and finally returning to the beautiful


South of


Chile.


In this


group I gained friends


and knowledge and


for that, I thank each and every one of





you, especially Eric and Alexandre who from the
beginning


helped me with their advice.





If


you sail to Chile you will have a


friend


here.Greetings to





all


Fair


windsRafaelSM2k


246