Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Upwind with staysail

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

My SM2K came with a trinquette (Staysail).
The installation from the previous owner was well made:
http://www.nikimat.com/staysail.html
The attach point was going through the deck to the hull itself.
The rigging was not so good and I end up adding friction rings (not pictures).

Therefore, it was a pain.
When I wanted to tack the Genoa, I had to furl it in, then tack, then unfurl it.
Also I obtain the same performance partially deploying the Genoa “inside” the shroud.

As Bill mentioned, you should definitely wait at least 1 year before modify your Amel.
If you really think you need a stay sail, then you should chat with Heinz who owns Quetzal SM2K #292.
1) It is detachable so you do not have to furl the Genoa.
2) the forestay reaches the top of the mast eliminating the need for running back stay.

Sincerely, Alexandre





--------------------------------------------

On Sun, 4/8/18, Bill Rouse @billrouse [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Upwind with staysail
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Sunday, April 8, 2018, 8:36 AM


 









Paul,
I
will give you five things that I have learned that may help
you.
1) Most of the
staysails added to SMs happen early in ownership...after
owning. a SM for a year or so, it is rarely added. You
should understand why this is true.2) Cruising
isn't a race. In fact, a longer sail on a SM can result
on more enjoyment.
3) Some 54
owners, who experience a malfunction in the Trinket, will
wait years before repairs. 4) The majority of
circumnavigation miles will be downwind.5) I have
seen a Trinket added incorrectly to a SM resulting in
serious problems.
I
see you signed your email "still looking" so
I'll add two more.1) You should own your Amel
for at least a year before you plan changes because
you'll probably change your mind.2) Finding a
good SM is not a small task and the most important thing is
not the price.
Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander
Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island,
TX 77550
+1(832)
380-4970
On Sun, Apr
8, 2018, 01:54 paul.cooper74@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:















 









An Amel-owner told me that using the
"Trinkette", or staysail, on a SM gains 5-6
degrees of upwind performance.  Can anyone verify this
claim?
Paul
C..still looking


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Upwind with staysail

 

Paul,

I will give you five things that I have learned that may help you.

1) Most of the staysails added to SMs happen early in ownership...after owning. a SM for a year or so, it is rarely added. You should understand why this is true.
2) Cruising isn't a race. In fact, a longer sail on a SM can result on more enjoyment.
3) Some 54 owners, who experience a malfunction in the Trinket, will wait years before repairs. 
4) The majority of circumnavigation miles will be downwind.
5) I have seen a Trinket added incorrectly to a SM resulting in serious problems.

I see you signed your email "still looking" so I'll add two more.
1) You should own your Amel for at least a year before you plan changes because you'll probably change your mind.
2) Finding a good SM is not a small task and the most important thing is not the price.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970


On Sun, Apr 8, 2018, 01:54 paul.cooper74@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

An Amel-owner told me that using the "Trinkette", or staysail, on a SM gains 5-6 degrees of upwind performance.  Can anyone verify this claim?


Paul C.

still looking


Re: Upwind with staysail

greatketch@...
 

Paul, 

That... seems unlikely.  

My boat’s best VMG under normal conditions comes when she points at about 37 deg AWA, and 50 deg TWA with a standard Genoa.  A claim of 31 deg AWA with a commensurate increase in VMG, seems far fetched for a SM, I do not believe the keel design will support that without stalling.

But being an engineer, I like to hear numbers.  How high does the person making this claim think a standard rig will point, and what is the claim for performance with a staysail? And are we talking about pointing by measuring apparent wind angle, or true wind angle?  How about leeway?

Talking pointing angle or tacking angle is a place to start, but upwind performance is really about VMG over the ground.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Big Grand Cat, Abacos, Bahamas 


---In amelyachtowners@..., <paul.cooper74@...> wrote :

An Amel-owner told me that using the "Trinkette", or staysail, on a SM gains 5-6 degrees of upwind performance.  Can anyone verify this claim?


Paul C.

still looking


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel 54 bilge alarm feedback

JEFFREY KRAUS
 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Wind or Water generator

JEFFREY KRAUS
 


Re: Upwind with staysail

Alan Leslie
 

Whether you can oint higher to the wind will depend largely on where the sail is sheeted. If you have a track inboard of the standing rigging then it is possible that you can point higher. If in the case of our trinquette it is sheeted to the rail, then no.
We use the trinquette in heavy weather, when close to the wind is neither comfortable nor necessary / possible, and when reaching with the genoa.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Upwind with staysail

Heinz Stutenbaeumer
 

Hi Paul 
I got a second rig behind my fore sail. 
I  use it with a staysail or a storm sail in strong winds. I can easy  remove the rig in normal weather. This way I don't need to roll in  the Genoa completely when I make a turn. 
The former owner told me he also used it to go higher up in the wind. 

Fair Winds 
Heinz Stutenbäumer
SM 2000 292 




Mit freundlichen Grüßen 
Heinz Stutenbāumer
Dachdeckermeister

Am 08.04.2018 um 02:54 schrieb paul.cooper74@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

An Amel-owner told me that using the "Trinkette", or staysail, on a SM gains 5-6 degrees of upwind performance.  Can anyone verify this claim?


Paul C.

still looking


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel 54 bilge alarm feedback

Sv Garulfo
 

Jeff and Peter,

I know what you mean about the tester lever on the float trigger, I have seen one on an SM2K. Very useful. Unfortunately there isn't one on the equipment used on our boat. However I can use a screwdriver to raise the float through the slots, so it's not too bad. 


Fair winds,

Thomas,
GARULFO
A54 #122
St Martin 


On Sun, 8 Apr 2018 at 02:31, Peter Forbes ppsforbes@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Jeff,


Where is the test lever for bilge alarm?

Peter Forbes
Carango
Bermuda 




On 7 Apr 2018, at 23:05, JEFFREY KRAUS jmkraus@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Thomas,
There should be a test lever to raise the float to set off the alarm to test it.
As to moving the switch, remember, offshore you are rocking and rolling often, so if you move the alarm, you may be hearing it more often then you'd like. I've had mine go off a few times, due to various issues, in various conditions, and never felt the water level compromised any pumps or other engine room components. 
Best Regards,
Jeff Spirit Amel 54 #14


On Sat, Apr 07, 2018 at 07:18 PM, 'S/V Garulfo' svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 

Hi all,

Today's maintenance task was testing the bilge alarm. We had heard recently of at least one 54 owner who found out the hard way it didn't work. So it was high on the list and, sure enough, the test failed. It turned out the buzzer was dead and the lamp burnt within 5s. The floater trigger worked ok. 

So we replaced the light bulb and the buzzer. We heard the original buzzer in a friend's SM2K and the new one and they are equally loud. 
Which made me think I'd like to add a 3 way switch to test/silence it, as it would be pretty counterproductive/unsettling to have the siren scream while troubleshooting why you're sinking. 

I also thought the position of the floater trigger in the bilge to be rather high. A few components (pumps, engine, c drive) would have their feet wet before it triggers. So thinking of relocating it lower in the sump, while not compromising access/maintenability.

Any thoughts?

Test your testers!

Fair winds 


Thomas 
GARULFO
A54 #122
Saint Martin, FWI


Upwind with staysail

paul.cooper74@...
 

An Amel-owner told me that using the "Trinkette", or staysail, on a SM gains 5-6 degrees of upwind performance.  Can anyone verify this claim?


Paul C.

still looking


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel 54 bilge alarm feedback

Peter Forbes
 

Jeff,

Where is the test lever for bilge alarm?

Peter Forbes
Carango
Bermuda 


On 7 Apr 2018, at 23:05, JEFFREY KRAUS jmkraus@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Thomas,
There should be a test lever to raise the float to set off the alarm to test it.
As to moving the switch, remember, offshore you are rocking and rolling often, so if you move the alarm, you may be hearing it more often then you'd like. I've had mine go off a few times, due to various issues, in various conditions, and never felt the water level compromised any pumps or other engine room components. 
Best Regards,
Jeff Spirit Amel 54 #14


On Sat, Apr 07, 2018 at 07:18 PM, 'S/V Garulfo' svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 

Hi all,

Today's maintenance task was testing the bilge alarm. We had heard recently of at least one 54 owner who found out the hard way it didn't work. So it was high on the list and, sure enough, the test failed. It turned out the buzzer was dead and the lamp burnt within 5s. The floater trigger worked ok. 

So we replaced the light bulb and the buzzer. We heard the original buzzer in a friend's SM2K and the new one and they are equally loud. 
Which made me think I'd like to add a 3 way switch to test/silence it, as it would be pretty counterproductive/unsettling to have the siren scream while troubleshooting why you're sinking. 

I also thought the position of the floater trigger in the bilge to be rather high. A few components (pumps, engine, c drive) would have their feet wet before it triggers. So thinking of relocating it lower in the sump, while not compromising access/maintenability.

Any thoughts?

Test your testers!

Fair winds 


Thomas 
GARULFO
A54 #122
Saint Martin, FWI


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel 54 bilge alarm feedback

Peter Forbes
 

I think the positioning of my bilge alarm is good. I checked mine recently by removing and tipping upside down and found malfunction due to corroded wiring which I corrected and now all OK. I agree the alarm would be unwelcome whilst dealing with a flooding crisis.

Peter Forbes
Amel 54 #036
Carango


On 7 Apr 2018, at 23:05, JEFFREY KRAUS jmkraus@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Thomas,
There should be a test lever to raise the float to set off the alarm to test it.
As to moving the switch, remember, offshore you are rocking and rolling often, so if you move the alarm, you may be hearing it more often then you'd like. I've had mine go off a few times, due to various issues, in various conditions, and never felt the water level compromised any pumps or other engine room components. 
Best Regards,
Jeff Spirit Amel 54 #14


On Sat, Apr 07, 2018 at 07:18 PM, 'S/V Garulfo' svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 

Hi all,

Today's maintenance task was testing the bilge alarm. We had heard recently of at least one 54 owner who found out the hard way it didn't work. So it was high on the list and, sure enough, the test failed. It turned out the buzzer was dead and the lamp burnt within 5s. The floater trigger worked ok. 

So we replaced the light bulb and the buzzer. We heard the original buzzer in a friend's SM2K and the new one and they are equally loud. 
Which made me think I'd like to add a 3 way switch to test/silence it, as it would be pretty counterproductive/unsettling to have the siren scream while troubleshooting why you're sinking. 

I also thought the position of the floater trigger in the bilge to be rather high. A few components (pumps, engine, c drive) would have their feet wet before it triggers. So thinking of relocating it lower in the sump, while not compromising access/maintenability.

Any thoughts?

Test your testers!

Fair winds 


Thomas 
GARULFO
A54 #122
Saint Martin, FWI


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Wind or Water generator

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Jeff,

the comments were on this forum a few months ago, probably directed at wind generators in general but he had a D 400 he would have been pleased to dispose of. I did wonder if there was something wrong with his install as he had had trouble getting it to work at all. 

For the replacement in the first instance I communicated with Super Wind in Germany to discuss possible servicing options. They were incredibly helpful sending me detailed annotated drawings and diagrams showing tests and then instructions on dismantling. In the event we found the housing worn from failing bearings. After 9 years continuous service you might expect that. So I went with the replacement. As I had installed the original with a knowledgeable technician I needed no help there. The owners manual provided has quite detailed instructions, clear, concise and understandable. It is a bit of a trick lifting the unit onto the top of the mizzen from the bosuns chair. If you go down this path Ill tell you my method. As to advice, you could do no better than contact Klaus Krieger at Super Wind even if you buy elsewhere although they are happy to ship. You will need the stop switch, two fuses, the controller and the dump elements as well as the generator. I got my originals all at once at the Annapolis  boat show and the extras were usable with the new unit.

Kind Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl



On 08 April 2018 at 13:56 "JEFFREY KRAUS jmkraus@opt online.net [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 


Will do.
I'm  surprised at any negative comments on the d400. I've only heard good things. 
I need to educate myself on the different components involved. what dealer did you use, and how was their support in helping on the install?
I thought Ocean Energy's people were extremely knowledgeable and helpful, however they don't offer any wind generating systems, only solar and hydro.
I'm skeptical on the hydro, due to my thoughts previously expressed..
Thanks for answering my questions.
Best Regards,
Jeff

On Sat, Apr 07, 2018 at 08:21 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 

 

Hi Jeff,

Weight: Superwind 11.5 kg D 400 17 kg or 33% heavier. At the top of a mast that is significant. Output. Superwind is rated for 350 watts and the D400 400 watts. I have been happy with the output from my Superwind, I have read on the forum an owners scathing comments about the lack of out put from a D400. Perhaps we had different expectations. As I said before. Not much output below 10 knots apparent, 15 knots quite good, 20 knots plus, terrific. When the batteries are full the Superwind diverts to two heater type elements to absorb the surplus, means you don't have to monitor the battery status. Its whole design is aimed to independent long term operation. The new 353 model is even more robust designed to withstand ice falls. The output is the same. I saw no reason to change. Google them, they have a good web site.

Regards

Danny

On 08 April 2018 at 10:08 "JEFFREY KRAUS jmkraus@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Danny,
It helps a lot. The rail mounting was recommended by someone else, who contacted me directly. Never thought of that, and it makes a lot of sense. Outside the rail wiring isn't a major asthetically disturbing concept. 
I think that the wiring through the locker is also a good idea.
What is the weight comparison between the super wind and the d400? Any idea?
What are the output specs comparatively? Any idea?
A plate to mount the wind generator on top of the mizzen attaching it to the existing extruding plate sounds like an excellent option.  
When I return to the boat later this month, I'm going to envision the options and get a better feel for the actual deployment. 
I greatly appreciate your feedback.
Best Regards,
Jeff Spirit Amel 54 #14


On Sat, Apr 07, 2018 at 03:44 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 

 

Hi Jeff, The top of the Mizzen has a flat plate on it that extends beyond the extrusion. When we bought Ocean Pearl it had a hole at each corner. We made the mast for the wind generator with a matching plate that we bolted to the top of the mast with a strip of 3mm thick rubber between the two plates. Any wind generator you mount on the top of the mizzen must not need servicing or physical stopping, for obvious reasons. It must be vibration free, some will make the mizzen mast sing, and it must be genuinely quiet.. The D400 was one I looked at closely when we bought ours at the Annapolis boat show. We went around and around looking at all the options. The D400 is very bulky and heavy and I didn't like its clumsy swing to the side feathering in strong winds which is achieved by having a very short tail

Our wind generator is German made Super Wind. It is designed for remote locations and needs no service. I described its feathering and silence in my previous. After 9 years with no need for service at any time the bearings were worn and we replaced it this year. The technology remains the same. I contacted the company in Germany and they could not have been more helpful. We bought the replacement unit from and agent in New Zealand. I posted photos of the mast and month or two back while it was off for the change. Sadly I recently deleted them from my camera.

Solar panels. We have two 130 watt 12 volt panels linked together to give 24 volts, hence just 130 watts. We got them at Island Water world in St Maarten and they provided a clamp system that we used to attach them to the port side rail just aft of the cockpit, about 1/3 in 2/3 out if you get my meaning.Thy sit happily there and are easy to swing up out of harms way when docking.  Because I thought this may be a temporary site I surface ran the wiring down a staunchon across the deck, up and over the coaming and into the big cockpit locker and from there to the batteries via appropriate fuses and a controller. It has worked so well and is so unobtrusive we have left them there for 9 years. A cheap as chips solution and added benefit, works well. The surface mounted wiring is just not noticed so I've left that too I have in the past posted photos.

Hope this helps

Regards

Danny

On 08 April 2018 at 00:33 "JEFFREY KRAUS jmkraus@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Danny,
A couple questions if you don't mind.
How did you mount the wind generator? What type is it? Have you heard of the d400, and any thoughts on it? How large, and where did you mount your solar panels?  9 years is a long time, and I have to assume that improvements have been made on the technology of both the wind and solar components. With that said, you seem to have a great combination that have got the job done with flying colors! That is amazing battery life, and speaks to an opitimal generating efficiency. Bravo!
Best Regards,
Jeff Spirit Amel 54 #14



On Sat, Apr 07, 2018 at 05:19 AM, simms simms@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 

 

Hi Paul. I'll repeat my thoughts from past posts. We have had for 9 years a super wind generator on top of the mizzen.  mast. There is no vibration and no noise. It cannot be heard.. It has mechanially auto feathering blades and a stop switch which because of the auto feathering never needs to be used in strong winds. It never has to be used because of the sensibilities of night wstch crew or marins neighbours because you cant hear it.
I agree. Under 10 knots apparent wind the charge is slight. 15 knots good. 20 knots plus terrific. We only have 130 watts solar plus the 350 watt wind generator. I like having my bases covered. Sunny and windless ok. Windy and cloudy. Ok. Windy and sunny. Wow. Hiwever it was never my desire to be able to run all my high draw systems on these secondary chargers. I did not want to cross oceeans relying on diesel engines for my electrcity. Mid ocean storms can go for days with heavy cloud cover. Hence the wind gen. If i lost diesel generation i wanted to be able to keep my esential eletronics going. I could live without air con etc. As an aside. In my experience electric auto helms are not big current users. Radar is as are inverters. Auto helms should not be set too finely. A little bit of wandering does no harm and use a lot less juice.
Lastly I attribute the 8 years I got from.my flooded lead acid batteries to the combination of wind generator and solar. I thrashed them at times but mostly that constant charge looked after them
Regards
Danny
AM 299
Ocean Pearl



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

-------- Original message --------
From: "'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Date: 7/04/18 01:38 (GMT+12:00)
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Wind or Water generator

 

 

Paul,

 

We have an Air Breeze generator.. It is okay, not great.

 

It is one of the quietest systems on the market but can still be a little annoying. One of the best features is it can be turned off and locked with an installed switch. This is also a big plus when at dock..

 

When on the hook, we turn it on at night. It will add enough charge to the batteries (15+ knts) that we do not have to start the genset in the morning. Solar usually picks up enough after 10am. We run all three refrigeration units, instruments (anchor alarm) and fans at night. During the day, it is off as we have ample solar. In the Caribbean, I can count on one hand the days where our solar set up has not been adequate to charge the batteries and offset our power needs due to cloudy conditions.

 

On overnight passages, it will be on at night unless the person on watch gets tired of hearing it. No matter what, we always seem to have to run the genset for about a hour at night when sailing due to instruments, radar and auto-pilot etc. The wind generator doesn’t produce enough to offset this usage, even in stronger winds.

 

Hope this helps confirm your hesitation on a wind generator.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Guadeloupe

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, April 6, 2018 6:32 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Wind or Water generator

 

 

We have 850 watt of solar power that covers our need when at anchor, even a partly cloudy day. But during passage at night we need to run the Genset something that take away some of the joy of sailing.

I have been thinking of installing a wind generator as we are going to spend a few seasons in the Caribbean where it is not uncommon with strong wind and cloud days. But hopefully we will also cross the Pacific and I assume more or less following wind and the wind generator will not contribute very much.

Does anyone of you out there have any experience with the Watt and Sea or the Swi-Tec hydro generators. Or any other brand? Pros and cons with hydro generators? For you who have both Hydro and Water generators what would be your first choice?

 

Paul on S/Y Kerpa SM#259

 

 

 

 

 


 

 

 


 

 

 


 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel 54 bilge alarm feedback

JEFFREY KRAUS
 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Wind or Water generator

JEFFREY KRAUS
 


Re: Rebuild genoa furler yes or no

eric freedman
 

Sorry wrong subject

 

 

David,

I had the genoa furler serviced by Amel in Martinique in November.

The gears were fine however they replaced 5 bearings and 9 seals or the other way around. They also replaced the electrical wire. The cost was 1200- euros. However this was while Amel was changing my rigging.

The cost was about 10,000 euros.

You will have to pat the rigger to remove the headstay and the motor and then replace the grease in the foil and mount the motor again. I would strongly suggest you have this done. Removing the motor from the headstay is a serious project.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2018 12:57 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: St Martin

 

 

Hi Porter,

 

Sorry - dropped by, but missed you.  Hope things are going well in Martinique.

 

Our standing rigging has arrived - finally.  If was made-up and shipped by ACMO in good time, but we opted to piggy-back our pallet into a container, that was scheduled for a good connection by sea-freight from Z-Spars in France to FKG here in SXM.  We saved a stack of money over air-freight (3 days), but somehow the container was delayed out of France by 4 weeks . . .   

 

Anyway, after we finish here, we will be skipping down-chain, with the mandatory stop in AMEL HQ in MQ - for a little AMEL-specific spares & service, and maybe a rig-check.  Still pondering whether to service the Genoa Furler there.

 

Anyway, hope to catch up somewhere down the track.

 

Best,

 

David

Perigee, SM#396

Back in St Maarten, after Easter in St Baarths

 

 

On Thursday, 22 March 2018, 7:35, "Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

David!  

Hello. We’re over in the IWW Marina. Provisioning and deciding on new sails. 

Looks like you’re wearing out your Visa card!!

Went to FKG yesterday. Looks like a serious outfit!!

 

What wind gen are you thinking?  

 

Please stop by if you’re  around. 

We leave probably sat or Sunday for Martinique and a haulout Tuesday. 

 

What are your Sailing plans after the refit?

Good to hear from you

 

Porter

Excuse the errors.  

Sent from my IPhone 


On Mar 21, 2018, at 4:01 PM, dbv_au@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Porter, 

Where are you?  We are in anchored the lagoon, Dutch side, awaiting our standing rigging, which we are doing with FKG.  Plus a host of other projects kicking in while the masts will be off (wind gen on mizzen, VHF & AIS aerials,  N2K wind sensors, cabling, new A/P, and so on).

Cheers,

David
Perigee, SM#396

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: St Martin

eric freedman
 

 

David,

I had the genoa furler serviced by Amel in Martinique in November.

The gears were fine however they replaced 5 bearings and 9 seals or the other way around. They also replaced the electrical wire. The cost was 1200- euros. However this was while Amel was changing my rigging.

The cost was about 10,000 euros.

You will have to pat the rigger to remove the headstay and the motor and then replace the grease in the foil and mount the motor again. I would strongly suggest you have this done. Removing the motor from the headstay is a serious project.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2018 12:57 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: St Martin

 

 

Hi Porter,

 

Sorry - dropped by, but missed you.  Hope things are going well in Martinique.

 

Our standing rigging has arrived - finally.  If was made-up and shipped by ACMO in good time, but we opted to piggy-back our pallet into a container, that was scheduled for a good connection by sea-freight from Z-Spars in France to FKG here in SXM.  We saved a stack of money over air-freight (3 days), but somehow the container was delayed out of France by 4 weeks . . .   

 

Anyway, after we finish here, we will be skipping down-chain, with the mandatory stop in AMEL HQ in MQ - for a little AMEL-specific spares & service, and maybe a rig-check.  Still pondering whether to service the Genoa Furler there.

 

Anyway, hope to catch up somewhere down the track.

 

Best,

 

David

Perigee, SM#396

Back in St Maarten, after Easter in St Baarths

 

 

On Thursday, 22 March 2018, 7:35, "Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

David!  

Hello. We’re over in the IWW Marina. Provisioning and deciding on new sails. 

Looks like you’re wearing out your Visa card!!

Went to FKG yesterday. Looks like a serious outfit!!

 

What wind gen are you thinking?  

 

Please stop by if you’re  around. 

We leave probably sat or Sunday for Martinique and a haulout Tuesday. 

 

What are your Sailing plans after the refit?

Good to hear from you

 

Porter

Excuse the errors.  

Sent from my IPhone 


On Mar 21, 2018, at 4:01 PM, dbv_au@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Porter, 

Where are you?  We are in anchored the lagoon, Dutch side, awaiting our standing rigging, which we are doing with FKG.  Plus a host of other projects kicking in while the masts will be off (wind gen on mizzen, VHF & AIS aerials,  N2K wind sensors, cabling, new A/P, and so on).

Cheers,

David
Perigee, SM#396

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Wind or Water generator

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Jeff,

Weight: Superwind 11.5 kg D 400 17 kg or 33% heavier. At the top of a mast that is significant. Output. Superwind is rated for 350 watts and the D400 400 watts. I have been happy with the output from my Superwind, I have read on the forum an owners scathing comments about the lack of out put from a D400. Perhaps we had different expectations. As I said before. Not much output below 10 knots apparent, 15 knots quite good, 20 knots plus, terrific. When the batteries are full the Superwind diverts to two heater type elements to absorb the surplus, means you don't have to monitor the battery status. Its whole design is aimed to independent long term operation. The new 353 model is even more robust designed to withstand ice falls. The output is the same. I saw no reason to change. Google them, they have a good web site.

Regards

Danny

On 08 April 2018 at 10:08 "JEFFREY KRAUS jmkraus@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Danny,
It helps a lot. The rail mounting was recommended by someone else, who contacted me directly. Never thought of that, and it makes a lot of sense. Outside the rail wiring isn't a major asthetically disturbing concept. 
I think that the wiring through the locker is also a good idea.
What is the weight comparison between the super wind and the d400? Any idea?
What are the output specs comparatively? Any idea?
A plate to mount the wind generator on top of the mizzen attaching it to the existing extruding plate sounds like an excellent option.  
When I return to the boat later this month, I'm going to envision the options and get a better feel for the actual deployment. 
I greatly appreciate your feedback.
Best Regards,
Jeff Spirit Amel 54 #14


On Sat, Apr 07, 2018 at 03:44 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 

 

Hi Jeff, The top of the Mizzen has a flat plate on it that extends beyond the extrusion. When we bought Ocean Pearl it had a hole at each corner. We made the mast for the wind generator with a matching plate that we bolted to the top of the mast with a strip of 3mm thick rubber between the two plates. Any wind generator you mount on the top of the mizzen must not need servicing or physical stopping, for obvious reasons. It must be vibration free, some will make the mizzen mast sing, and it must be genuinely quiet.. The D400 was one I looked at closely when we bought ours at the Annapolis boat show. We went around and around looking at all the options. The D400 is very bulky and heavy and I didn't like its clumsy swing to the side feathering in strong winds which is achieved by having a very short tail

Our wind generator is German made Super Wind. It is designed for remote locations and needs no service. I described its feathering and silence in my previous. After 9 years with no need for service at any time the bearings were worn and we replaced it this year. The technology remains the same. I contacted the company in Germany and they could not have been more helpful. We bought the replacement unit from and agent in New Zealand. I posted photos of the mast and month or two back while it was off for the change. Sadly I recently deleted them from my camera.

Solar panels. We have two 130 watt 12 volt panels linked together to give 24 volts, hence just 130 watts. We got them at Island Water world in St Maarten and they provided a clamp system that we used to attach them to the port side rail just aft of the cockpit, about 1/3 in 2/3 out if you get my meaning.Thy sit happily there and are easy to swing up out of harms way when docking.  Because I thought this may be a temporary site I surface ran the wiring down a staunchon across the deck, up and over the coaming and into the big cockpit locker and from there to the batteries via appropriate fuses and a controller. It has worked so well and is so unobtrusive we have left them there for 9 years. A cheap as chips solution and added benefit, works well. The surface mounted wiring is just not noticed so I've left that too I have in the past posted photos.

Hope this helps

Regards

Danny

On 08 April 2018 at 00:33 "JEFFREY KRAUS jmkraus@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Danny,
A couple questions if you don't mind.
How did you mount the wind generator? What type is it? Have you heard of the d400, and any thoughts on it? How large, and where did you mount your solar panels?  9 years is a long time, and I have to assume that improvements have been made on the technology of both the wind and solar components. With that said, you seem to have a great combination that have got the job done with flying colors! That is amazing battery life, and speaks to an opitimal generating efficiency. Bravo!
Best Regards,
Jeff Spirit Amel 54 #14



On Sat, Apr 07, 2018 at 05:19 AM, simms simms@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 

 

Hi Paul. I'll repeat my thoughts from past posts. We have had for 9 years a super wind generator on top of the mizzen.  mast. There is no vibration and no noise. It cannot be heard. It has mechanially auto feathering blades and a stop switch which because of the auto feathering never needs to be used in strong winds. It never has to be used because of the sensibilities of night wstch crew or marins neighbours because you cant hear it.
I agree. Under 10 knots apparent wind the charge is slight. 15 knots good. 20 knots plus terrific. We only have 130 watts solar plus the 350 watt wind generator. I like having my bases covered. Sunny and windless ok. Windy and cloudy. Ok. Windy and sunny. Wow. Hiwever it was never my desire to be able to run all my high draw systems on these secondary chargers. I did not want to cross oceeans relying on diesel engines for my electrcity. Mid ocean storms can go for days with heavy cloud cover. Hence the wind gen. If i lost diesel generation i wanted to be able to keep my esential eletronics going. I could live without air con etc. As an aside. In my experience electric auto helms are not big current users. Radar is as are inverters. Auto helms should not be set too finely. A little bit of wandering does no harm and use a lot less juice.
Lastly I attribute the 8 years I got from.my flooded lead acid batteries to the combination of wind generator and solar. I thrashed them at times but mostly that constant charge looked after them
Regards
Danny
AM 299
Ocean Pearl



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

-------- Original message --------
From: "'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Date: 7/04/18 01:38 (GMT+12:00)
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Wind or Water generator

 

 

Paul,

 

We have an Air Breeze generator. It is okay, not great.

 

It is one of the quietest systems on the market but can still be a little annoying. One of the best features is it can be turned off and locked with an installed switch. This is also a big plus when at dock..

 

When on the hook, we turn it on at night. It will add enough charge to the batteries (15+ knts) that we do not have to start the genset in the morning. Solar usually picks up enough after 10am. We run all three refrigeration units, instruments (anchor alarm) and fans at night. During the day, it is off as we have ample solar. In the Caribbean, I can count on one hand the days where our solar set up has not been adequate to charge the batteries and offset our power needs due to cloudy conditions.

 

On overnight passages, it will be on at night unless the person on watch gets tired of hearing it. No matter what, we always seem to have to run the genset for about a hour at night when sailing due to instruments, radar and auto-pilot etc. The wind generator doesn’t produce enough to offset this usage, even in stronger winds.

 

Hope this helps confirm your hesitation on a wind generator.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Guadeloupe

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, April 6, 2018 6:32 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Wind or Water generator

 

 

We have 850 watt of solar power that covers our need when at anchor, even a partly cloudy day. But during passage at night we need to run the Genset something that take away some of the joy of sailing.

I have been thinking of installing a wind generator as we are going to spend a few seasons in the Caribbean where it is not uncommon with strong wind and cloud days. But hopefully we will also cross the Pacific and I assume more or less following wind and the wind generator will not contribute very much.

Does anyone of you out there have any experience with the Watt and Sea or the Swi-Tec hydro generators. Or any other brand? Pros and cons with hydro generators? For you who have both Hydro and Water generators what would be your first choice?

 

Paul on S/Y Kerpa SM#259

 

 

 

 

 


 

 

 


 


Amel 54 bilge alarm feedback

Sv Garulfo
 

Hi all,

Today's maintenance task was testing the bilge alarm. We had heard recently of at least one 54 owner who found out the hard way it didn't work. So it was high on the list and, sure enough, the test failed. It turned out the buzzer was dead and the lamp burnt within 5s. The floater trigger worked ok. 

So we replaced the light bulb and the buzzer. We heard the original buzzer in a friend's SM2K and the new one and they are equally loud. 
Which made me think I'd like to add a 3 way switch to test/silence it, as it would be pretty counterproductive/unsettling to have the siren scream while troubleshooting why you're sinking. 

I also thought the position of the floater trigger in the bilge to be rather high. A few components (pumps, engine, c drive) would have their feet wet before it triggers. So thinking of relocating it lower in the sump, while not compromising access/maintenability.

Any thoughts?

Test your testers!

Fair winds 


Thomas 
GARULFO
A54 #122
Saint Martin, FWI


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Wind or Water generator

JEFFREY KRAUS
 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Wind or Water generator

Teun BAAS <teunbaas@...>
 

HI Jeff,

 

Correction: SPEEDWIND should read SUPERWIND.

 

Best Regards Teun

Apr 08, 2018   07:31:44

 

 

 

From: Teun BAAS [mailto:teunbaas@...]
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2018 7:16 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Cc: Thomas HOEHNE ; 'Gilles Watelot'
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Wind or Water generator

 

Hi Jeff,

 

I am going thru the same process right now and will have a SS arch welded for AMELIT as per the design received from Bill ROUSE. The selected welder is extremely busy so it will be done here in NOUMEA early July; 3 panels for arnd 850 watts (on paper).

I am now discussing having a reinforced post welded on the solar arch for a wind generator; have read (& seen on YouTube; SY-ZERO) very good things about the German SPEEDWIND; my impression is now reinforced by Danny’s experience with the SPEEDWIND.

 

Like you, I was not enthusiastic about messing up the profile of AMELIT but at the same time I need to be practical; I looked into a sliding system on the arch to keep a low profile (not higher than the booms) but allowing access to the dinghy and the swim platform. We decided against as ultimately the sliding mechanism will give problems and no longer be functional.

 

I also didn’t want to use the aft sun deck as I like to use that exactly for that purpose – that’s also why she has the sun matrasses; during passage I need to put the dinghy there.

 

Only thing I am still undecided is having the SPEEDWIND (there is a new 2018 model) on the solar arch or on the MIZZEN mast.

 

 

Looking forward to hearing your ultimate decisions.

 

Best Regards

 

Teun

 

AMELIT A54 #128

NOUMEA, NEW CALEDONIA

Apr 08, 2018   06:49:37

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2018 11:07 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Wind or Water generator

 

 

I want to thank everyone who is contributing their knowledge and insight into this topic.

 

Currently S/V Spirit has no means to charge it's battery pack without burning diesel, and with an expected Pacific adventure in 2019  approaching, that needs to change. 

 

I'm followed, with interest, the comments on the shaft generator. Please comment on it's connection, and ability to operate. A few questions on it:

1. Will it operate only when the motor is running? With a locked brake, the prop doesn't turn unless running. Do you bypass the brake? Turning the shaft without the motor running is not recommended as heathy for the transmission. If I'm running the engine, I'm burning diesel.

 

A couple weeks ago, I went up to Maine to speak with Ocean Planet Energy Systems. They carry an array of Solar panels, and the Watt and Sea hydro generator. Very helpful and knowledgable folks, whose business is electrical generating systems.

 

One of the owners sailed the Vende Globe twice. He used the hydro generator. 

Some thoughts on it: 

1. The southern ocean is not the weed filled Caribbean, and apparently (as pointed out by Ian?) the Atlantic has it's share of crap floating around to clog the prop on the generator. I'm sure the pacific has it's share. You mount the gen set on the stern. Not a particularly encouraging place to visit offshore especially in nautical conditions.

2. It's not cheap. Over 5K

3. If you're not moving, it's not producing. (Duh!)

 

The D400 Questions and comments

!. Seems like the best wind generator available today. Quiet and efficient

2. Has anyone mounted one on their mizzen? How high up? Did you use some sort of flange clamp over the mast to avoid putting holes in the mast? 

I'd prefer to avoid a post with the generator on top mounted on the stern. It's just me, but I'd find it unsightly. 

 

Solar panels Questions and comments

!. Obviously a necessity

2. Where to mount them. Again, an arch is not something I'd like to employ. It's just me. 

That said, OES offers panels that can be mounted on the Bimini, and others that can be walked on. As such, I'm thinking that perhaps I mount them on the top of the aft cabin, and/or on the bimini, with a disconnect on the bimini for easy removal when the bimini is folded up.

 

It seems that some combination of solar and another means of generating electricity is the most efficient way to go. As of now, I'm leaning towards the d400 mounted on the mizzen, if it can be done effectively, and a combo of panels mounted primarily on the aft cabin top. One downside to that is when I make short offshore runs, I store my dingy upside down on the aft cabin. It would cover the panels. I'll live with that.

 

I appreciate any feedback. Many Amelians are much more familiar with these systems and I look forward to their comments and advice. I love burning diesel, but I realize that it's time to take advantage of these alternative energy production alternatives. Besides, loading up the boat with hidden and deck secured stashes of diesel, is extra weight, and effects trim. Not that we own raceboats, but a well designed boat should be kept within it's parameters of design both astheticly(sp?) and from weight balanced perspective. 

 

Before I buy anything, I'd like to feel that I've made the best choice for MY needs, which may not be the best choice for someone else with a different perspective, or other needs. 

 

Thanks, and Best Regards to All

 

Jeff Spirit Amel 54 #14 Puerto Real, Puerto Rico

On Fri, Apr 06, 2018 at 08:47 PM, James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 

Ian,

 

   Can you comment on the output of the Amel shaft generator on your boat at various speeds?  My boat has the generator as well but the previous owner removed the drive pulley on the back of the transmission to install a flex coupling..  I plan to have the generator operational for our Transatlantic in 2020.

 

James

SV Sueño

Maramu #220

 

On Apr 6, 2018, at 7:32 PM, Ian parkianj@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Agree with a John. The Santorin also has the prop shaft alternator and it is a gem. From talking to other cruisers en route there seems to be general agreement that maintenance free daytime solar just beats 24 hour wind generation.  
Just a comment to add - our Atlantic crossing buddies had a towed generator which just collected Sargasso weed so had to be ‘suspended’. The prop on an Amel isn’t affected because of its depth, keel protection and size. Any water generator needs to be easily accessible to free it from flotsam.

Ian 

Ocean Hobo SN 96. Antigua