Hi everyone,

So we traced the leak back to the bow thruster.   Not sure yet what is wong with it. Chances are some carbon dust from the brushes creates the negative-grounding connection. 

We built another leak detector with a LED bulb and 2 wires to second the amel detector. We plug one end on the grounding and the other end to the positive of the 24V battery bank. A leak on the negative circuit would light the bulb. We found it's more sensitive than our amel built detector and would show a dim light even when the amel detector wouldn't light (to the naked eye). That may show our amel detector isn't 100% working order. I'll troubleshoot that next. 

One aspect of the issue we are still a bit confused about: 

Despite disconnecting the big cable that connects the battery bank to the front locker where the bow thruster (and others components like the windlass, etc) are, we would still see a strong leak. We had to disconnect another cable that goes in the engine room to remove the leak altogether. There we thought we had 2 sources of strong leaks.... 

We failed to trace the ER leak (while forelocker cable disconnected from the battery bank's end), so we concentrated on the forelocker one (while ER cable disconnected). When we eventually disconnected the bow thruster from its end and reconnected everything else from their end in the forelocker, we could see only a very dim leak (and undetected by the amel detector). We then reconnected the ER cable, expecting to see and diagnose the second strong leak, but it was gone... 

So is it possible that the ER cable was showing the bow thruster leak despite the main forelocker cable being disconnected? 

If yes (and it seems to be the case) then the methodology of disconnecting all-but-one cable from the batteries is somewhat flawed... The ER cable lead was a going roundabout.  

On a positive note, we now have a better handle on the cable soup (tidy, but opaque) in the ER. Bring on the labelling machine!

TBC

Fair winds,

Thomas 

GARULFO 

Amel 54 #122

Saint Martin, FWI

On Thu, 26 Apr 2018 at 14:24, rossidesigngroup@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

We  had the same.  Comes and goes.  Eventually we discovered it was dependent on another boat near us--  it would happen when the other boat docked andhooked up to shore power, then disappear when it left.  Months later, in another location it happened again.  I have had the feeling we were ending up detecting a leak in a nearby boat (boats at most marinas share the same ground, even use your zincs if they don't have them).  I have no idea how this is possible, maybe some of you with more electrical knowlege do!  We also have a galvanic isolator with detection as well and no correlation with its indicators.  The only time our galvanic isolator showed a leak was in a questionable marina in Greece.  Tests with a volt meter showed the galvanic isolator was solving the problem even though indicating a fault.  The Amel indicator showed no fault. BTW the addition of a galvanic isolator slowed our rudder zinc loss to near zero.  

Bob and Suzanne, KAIMI SM 429 In the water in Malta

PS Adm Bill--should I post my Amel WOB results?

 

Porter. (and Bill)  forgive me if I am jumping in at the wrong point.  

Porter the transformer is for regulating shore power onto the boat.  It gives one the option to use different voltage inputs on the SP cable and get 220/230v supplied to the boat's AC distribution panel. Charging the battery is a different matter.

 Porter, I installed the MagnaSine  4124 inverter-charger over Christmas (2017) and have had good experience with it so far.  I corresponded a lot with Bill Kinney during the installation trying to make sure I did not foul up the Amel bonding set up.  I think we worked through it OK.  The unit is wired between the auto transfer switch (the one that selects the generator or shore power for AC) and acts as a charger if AC is present upstream (from SP or the genset,) or as an inverter if there is no other source of AC.  I set it up to be the "whole house" inverter so it supplies the main AC distribution panel.   We routinely run the microwave, vacuum, food processor...etc from the battery.    I paid about $1900 USD  for the unit plus the remote control unit, which you will need.

As a charger it supplies 63 amps to the battery at the start and ramps down as the battery voltage comes up.  It is programmable so you can set it to which ever battery type you have.   We have AGMs and it does the absorb phase at 28.6V then floats at 26.5V  We run in it in parallel with a 40A charger to speed things along at the start. 

I installed the unit in the engine room forward port side.  It has internal cooling fans, and internal temperature sensors to shut it down if it gets too hot. It seems to be happy there so far.  

If you have a charger that is becoming unreliable  I definitely recommend getting a new charger  while you are near good shipping points.  We now have three chargers, in addition to the solar, engine alternator, and shaft alternator.  Can't have too much.

   See you soon,  John and Colleen

SV Annie  SM 37

St Thomas, USVI

 

We  had the same.  Comes and goes.  Eventually we discovered it was dependent on another boat near us--  it would happen when the other boat docked andhooked up to shore power, then disappear when it left.  Months later, in another location it happened again.  I have had the feeling we were ending up detecting a leak in a nearby boat (boats at most marinas share the same ground, even use your zincs if they don't have them).  I have no idea how this is possible, maybe some of you with more electrical knowlege do!  We also have a galvanic isolator with detection as well and no correlation with its indicators.  The only time our galvanic isolator showed a leak was in a questionable marina in Greece.  Tests with a volt meter showed the galvanic isolator was solving the problem even though indicating a fault.  The Amel indicator showed no fault. BTW the addition of a galvanic isolator slowed our rudder zinc loss to near zero.  

Bob and Suzanne, KAIMI SM 429 In the water in Malta

PS Adm Bill--should I post my Amel WOB results?

 

All,

I did some research on using Mineral Spirits and Paint thinner on Plexiglass to see if my past experience in working with these materials seemed to be accurate.  I found that there seems to consensus that 100% Mineral Spirits is considered safe for Plexiglass.  While  “Paint Thinner” (for oil based paints) tends to be mostly Mineral Spirits it can apparently also contain a mixture of other solvents,  some of which  could be harmful to Plexiglass.  So I want to correct my statement that Paint Thinner is safe for use on Plexiglass, even though I have used various brands of solvent labelled “Paint Thinner” for decades without any problems.   It is possible that I might have just been lucky in selecting Paint Thinner brands that were safe and I sure don’t want an Amel owner to find one that isn’t based on something that I posted.    

In my research, I also found that apparently Isopropyl alcohol is often used to clean silicone from aircraft canopies and is apparently considered safe but I have not used it myself so don’t know how well it works for this application.

Best,

James

SV Sueño

Maramu #220

On Apr 26, 2018, at 2:33 AM, James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Ryan,

   Well I have used mineral spirits/paint thinner (for oil based paints,  not urethanes)  on Acrylics for 40 years on countless boats without any obvious negative effects but that is the only testing that I have done.  I always tape to keep the worst of the caulking off.  Scrap the bulk of the material off with something soft like the soft plastic spreaders used for applying bondo and then finish cleaning with rags and the paint thinner.  Also, if you only clean up a small area at a time, your caulking will be easier to remove.  Once you disturb the bead and spread it out thin, it cures much more quickly.

   Bill R. is definitely right that if you use a lower strength silicone that the future removal will be much easier.  My reasons for using the 3145 is because the caulking can last the life of the new plexiglass without leakage and I would rather fight with the removal aspect at the end than to deal with leaks and having to redo the caulking.  There seems to always be a piper to pay!  (grin)  The 3145 btw  is also non corrosive so the stainless screws fair a bit better than if you use the more common silicones with the acetic acid in them.  I think that there are other non corrosive silicones with a lower strength than the 3145 out there but don’t know of any that are clear or white off hand.  Perhaps others can help. 

Best of luck with your project.

James

SV Sueño

Maramu #220 

  

On Apr 25, 2018, at 6:07 PM, Bill Rouse brouse@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Silicone RTV. If you get any squeezed out when screwing down, cut it with a razor and peel it off. Let the screws do the securing and the RTV, the sealing. The next owner will be thankful.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

On Wed, Apr 25, 2018, 19:47 Ryan Meador ryan.d.meador@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Pat and Ian, that might be a workable idea, but it would be a lot of work.  Getting the masking tape right to paint the edges (to cover the sealant) was a huge job, and this would be the same again.

James, both of your ideas seem like much less work.  I had not considered using longer screws.  That still leaves the problem of getting the butyl tape into position, and it's very frustrating to cut... so I think perhaps I'll go the silicone route.  I also was not aware silicone could be easily wiped off acrylic.  I thought I would have to use a solvent (like acetone) which would attack it.  I'm surprised mineral spirits is safe; I usually consider that harsher than acetone.

Does anyone have a recommendation for a silicone?

Thanks,

Ryan

SM 233 Iteration

Boston, MA, USA

On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 1:06 PM, James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Ryan,

   If you want to use the butyl tape, just get some longer screws, pins or even some drill bits that fit the holes in your window panels.  Next locate a few corner holes in your frame.  Insert two long screws pins or whatever you are using into the matching holes in your new plexiglass and hold the new panel an inch or two above your window frame.  You can now work the long screws or pins into the holes you exposed in the frame and at that point lower the plexiglass into perfect position on the first try.  From that point just install several of your permanent screws and remove the temporary long locating screws or pins.  If you still have concerns, do a dry run without the butyl.  You will need some extra hands.  And no worries cleaning most silicones off of acrylic.  You can pretty much remove it with a clean rag.  Mineral spirits or paint thinner is safe for the acrylic if needed.  Don't use anything harsh like acetone.  I will let someone else recommend the sealant.  I will be using the Dow Corning 3145 Gray on mine..  

Best,

James

SV Sueno

Maramu #220

On Apr 25, 2018 11:08 AM, "Ryan Meador ryan.d.meador@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Hi all,

I'm replacing my dodger windows. I've had the acrylic fabricated, I've painted the edges, I've filled and drilled the screw holes.... The only thing I'm missing is the sealant.

I had intended to use butyl tape, but the stuff I got is way too stickly to work with. It's almost impossible to cut, and even if I got it in place, I'd be unable to fine tune the window position before screwing.

I think the original sealant was a type of silicone. Does anyone know what it was and how it was applied? I'm scared it will squish out onto the window and I won't be able to get it off the acrylic.

Thanks,

Ryan

SM 233 Iteration

Boston, MA, USA