Date   

Cancelling my membership from this forum

Rink De Haan
 

Dear all,

I am cancelling my membership from this forum.
After a private discussion with Bill and his obvious immense support I have to conclude we don't share the same values.

Thanks for all good advice and interaction in the past 10 years.

Best regards,

Rink
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Bill Rouse <brouse@...>
Date: 2018-05-11 13:53 GMT+02:00
Subject: From Bill ROUSE
To: Rink de Haan <rinkdehaan@...>
Cc: lji004@...


Rink,

I incorrectly CC'D Jose at his old email address. His current email address is lji004@...

I am not going to get into a finger pointing situation with you. I mentioned Judy to Jose because he knows Judy. And, even if he didn't know Judy, the fact that she was in recovery has as much to do with it as you stating that I am a Texan.

You have been rude, childish, and offensive to not only me, but others in the Group. You are disruptive and contribute very little good information.

I have always stated that I am the self-appointed Amel Advocate in the Amel Owners Group. I know that I have saved others tens of thousands of Euros by preaching the mantra to "not change anything for a year." I have also advocated keeping your Amel pure and unadulterated. I call this the Amel Way. I am not going to respond to your Solar Arch accusations, or anything else.

I have blocked your email address and will no longer see your emails because I do not want to see them. I suggest that you do the same because you obviously have a problem with me.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

On Fri, May 11, 2018, 03:36 Rink de Haan <rinkdehaan@...> wrote:
Dear Bill and Jose Luis,

I appreciatie the opportunity to discuss Amel Owner Group communication policy together with Jose Luis.

In my 10 years as an owner and member of this group I have never insulted, nor reacted negatively towards Bill.
I have checked all my postings on the slightest possibility of this. I have found only positive reactions. So I would like to ask Bill to provide the examples. 
Bill is confusing me with someone else or he is just dishonest and trying to influence the discussion with Jose Luis. 
I am also really sorry for Bill and his wife of her being in hospital though I don't understand where it is related to our discussion. So let's please stick to the factual part of the discussion.

I apologize for binging the Texan aspect in if it hurts Bill's feelings. I was referring to a posting of Bill dated  April 19, 2015 were he stated that he is much aware of the Texan element when he stated "I hope that I do not come across too arrogant, but I am a Texan and it is in my DNA...some things cannot be helped. ;)". I am in the opinion that Bill crossed the line of decency in the discussion with Jose. He did not responded to the real message of Jose, but merely turned it into a rant for The Amel Way (of which every member of this group is aware). 
No opinion should be used in a way that it creates frustrated members and block any discussion outside of The Amel Way.
The example of the arch is just to question if The Captain would have advised to do this (as The Amel Way). 

I would like to ask Jose Luis to have a close look at the conversation Bill had with Jose and determine if this is in line with the way of the forum where exchanging views and thoughts are to be treated with respect and not to be killed by having ownership of the absolute truth. No one has!

If Jose Luis decides I crossed the line, I will apologize to Bill and the group.

Leaves me to state that I absolutely value Bill's contributions though the way he puts them sometimes is hard to swallow. 

Looking forward for your replies,

Rink




2018-05-10 23:50 GMT+02:00 Bill Rouse <brouse@...>:
Rink,

I have never said a single insulting or rude word to you.

You have personally insulted me on the Amel Owners Group 3 times in about 5 years.

You asked for the Group Moderator to talk to me because I support the Amel Way and because I am a Texan. I am very proud to say you are correct.

I copied the Group Owner so that he is aware of what you want and so you can email him directly.

BTW, I received your last public insult to me on the Amel Owners Group today when I was consoling my wife at the hospital...she was recovering from surgery. 

There is one more sentence in this email which is from my heart, but not visible to you because we are not face-to-face. When a Texan has stern words for someone, it is always face-to-face.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970



Re: Experiemental Chromed WOB Provided by Amel

Craig Briggs
 

Bob and Suzanne,
Many thanks for updating us on the WOB. It sounds like Amel recognizes the problem and is working to fix it. Good to hear that Bill Rouse is also encouraging Amel to improve the original design and that the "Amel Way" can evolve when shortcomings are found. A little disappointing, though, that Amel hasn't moved more quickly and is still supplying the original WOB's that are clearly not hard enough.
Cheers,
Craig Briggs, SN68 Sangaris


---In amelyachtowners@..., <rossidesigngroup@...> wrote :

Hi Everyone,
Given recent postings on the WOB and my experience about a month ago I think it is a good time to post regarding an experiemental WOB that I had received from Amel.  I had received it in March, 2014 and thought, mistakenly that this was simply the new design that AMEL provided.  Instead, I learned later that these were trial versions that Amel had somehow provided to me.  Not sure if anyone else got them.  So here are the pics I posted back in September,  2014 -- https://www.dropbox.com/sc/1tompsdjss3rr0r/AACGUoVzzawY5RnlyKpnjwRga
.
In a phone conversation with Maud she confirmed that Amel was trying these out.  About 2 years ago I had installed this new type WOB in Turkey and changed it here in Malta and examined it carefully (note we visited Croatia and Venice on the way back, so the miles are there).  Please also note that I am making no claims about whether Amel should convert to these but I will tell you what I reported to Amel--which is that I was replacing the O ring inside and re-using the WOB!  Below is the content of my email to Maud and her response back to me.  I thought it was important to provide the information to Amel and give them time before placing it in front of the group.  Please also note that Adm Bill was privy to the info and he has contacted Amel to suggest they consider switching to the new WOB.

OK...the email to Maud on April 4 and her response on April 5.

"Hi Maud,

About 3.5 years ago you sent me an "experimental" WOB that Amel was trying out.  It is a normal bronze WOB with a stainless surface where the lip seals mount.  I was confused about it but in a later telephone conversation you talked with someone at Amel and then explained to me that Amel was trying out the new special WOB.  I promised to mount it and report back to you.

I serviced the Amel drive on my Super Maramu KAIMI #429 about 2 years ago and installed the special WOB.  Last week I serviced it again. There was virtually no wear on the WOB.  There was no evidence of water in the drive oil (90 wt) and the springs inside the seals were not rusted (I pack them with grease).

It is my impression that the WOB did very well.  While I could see some "polishing" could not detect any ridge or groove with my fingernail and I replaced the O ring inside the WOB and am re-using the WOB.   I plan to report back again on the next service in a year or 2.

I have included a link to photos of the removed WOB.  For comparison I show a regular used WOB.  You are welcome to forward this email to any others at Amel and I will be happy to answer any other questions that you have.

Click on individual images for larger photo --
https://photos.app.goo.gl/cW2QtzN7OeKaupoP2

Robert Rossi  SM#429 KAIMI"

Response back from Maud-- 
"Dear Robert,
Thank you for your nice message and detailed report. I will forward the results of your test to the AMEL technical department and I am certain they will be glad to hear it is very positive.
Thank you again for being such a supportive customer!!
Have a nice day.
With my kindest regards,

Maud TOUILLET
Service clientèle/Customer service"

Highlights--I could detect NO wear other than a bit of polishing where normally you would see a groove...note the used bronze version as a comparison.  There was no evidence of water in the 90 wt oil which I actually ran back through my Mr.Funnel to see if there was water--none-- and now have re-stored for possible future use.  Note also that there was no noticeable rust on the springs in the seals.  And, as noted, I am re-using the WOB.  We plan on pulling out for hurricane season in the Caribbean 14 months from now and I will re-check it.  Ironically, the entire process left me kind of upset with myself for even doing the change! 


Bob and Suzanne, KAIMI SM429 Gozo in the Maltese archipelago
 
 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Fresh Water Pump

Peter Forbes
 

Porter,

Yes and Maud said she couldn’t get one. Now I know what you say I will try again.

Many thanks - where is your boat 152?

Peter

Peter Forbes
00447836 209730

On 11 May 2018, at 10:48, Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Peter

Just 6 months ago I got a new one from Maud. 
Expensive, but it was there in a week. 
Have you asked Amel?

Porter
54-152

Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 

On May 11, 2018, at 4:23 AM, Peter Forbes ppsforbes@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

I am finding great difficulty finding a European source for the fresh water pump on my 54. The existing seems to draw 1 amp and pump 6 litres a minute. I can find one that draws 3.7 amps but I don’t know if that will be too much for that frigoboat circuit.

Any ideas?

Peter Forbes
00447836 209730


Chesapeake Rendezvous

Patrick McAneny
 

So far nine boats have expressed interest in attending the rendezvous , however no one has included a time period , that would not work for them. Joel suggested that someone needed to establish a date, so plans could be made. That made sense , we filled that role at the first rendezvous four years ago , so I thought we would do that again. To determine a date , we need to know , when would be good for you. So could everyone interested, email me back and tell me what time period this summer would not be good for them. We will then try  to pick a time good for most. Please email us direct at sailw32@... , so that we do not clog up this site with posts that others have no interest in. In order to have time for planning , I would guess we would be planning on some time between late July to early Sept. There was eight boats and about 30 people at the first rendezvous , more than expected , so maybe we will surpass that number this time. BTW , if you hang around after dinner , Joel buys rounds. That is sure to attract sailors . We will post updates to the Amel site from time to time.

Thanks,

Pat & Diane

SM Shenanigans


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] SM Prop Shaft Seal direction and Bush*** IMPORTANT RESPONSE***

Ian Townsend
 

We echo what so many have said. Bill Rouse has always been there for us no matter what. He has helped troubleshoot, problem solve and educate. In short, our cruising experience wouldn't be the same without him. So for that, Margaret and I want to thank you Bill. 

By virtue of the kind of responses we are seeing on this conversation string (and thankfully only a few others in the past), I am happy to see that this group can self-regulate disrespectful behavior. Let's hope the message is heard.

Ian & Margaret
S/V Loca Lola II 
SM153

On May 11, 2018, at 4:21 AM, Peter Forbes ppsforbes@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Bill contributes enormous value to this forum from a huge base of invaluable probably unparalleled knowledge.


Thank you for all your help over the years of my Amel ownership.

Very sadly Carango Amel 54 #035 is now for sale.

Peter

Peter Forbes
00447836 209730

On 11 May 2018, at 01:17, James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Porter,


   Well put..  Bill Rouse IMO deserves a lot more respect than he seems to be receiving from some.  He has been there to help just about anyone that needed it on countless occasions including myself.  

   And while I am only coming into my third year as an Amel owner, I also feel that what is being called the “Amel-way” also deserves considerable respect which is backed by an amazing about of sailing miles and history.   

Best to all Amel owners,

James
SV Sueño
Maramu #220

On May 10, 2018, at 6:48 PM, Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

I am with Alex, Danny et al. 

The time, consideration,  free and concomitantly priceless advice Bill Rouse has selflessly contributed to the forum is immeasurable. And this goes for many others too. 
We can’t get offended by some vigorous debate.   That’s one of the facets of the forum which makes it great!  

I rarely see right for right’s sake here. I am consistently impressed with the selfless and time consuming responses to help others who we may never meet!  

The contributions by Bill and other are so invaluable.  

Please keep it up!!!

Porter
Ibis. 54-152 Bonaire
 

Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 

On May 10, 2018, at 4:05 PM, Alex Ramseyer alexramseyer@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Rink,
I don't agree.
Alex
SY NO STRESS
AMEL54

On Thursday, May 10, 2018, 3:53:51 PM GMT-4, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 

Hi Rink, I cant agree with you on this. Nor do I think an insulting crack at Texans is appropriate. Bill is always consistent. Polite, firm and unwavering. It does us no harm to have such a strong Amel advocate. Anyone who wishes can ignore him. As well as being sound advice, retaining the "fleet" as near to original is doing us all a big favor as it maintains the value of our unique vessels. Because of the work he does Bill has seen instances of modified Amels that have turned out less than satisfactory. I know of one new owner who has spent a small fortune replacing failing/failed modifications to restore the boat to Amel standard. As to the arches, personally I think they are ugly

Bill, please keep up the good work

I will add two comments. Possibly  hours in estruries or harbours like the Chesapeake and Delaware water with suspended silt will cause more rapid wear,Secondly..oil floats on water and I cannot see how oil could run or drip out the bottom. My observation is that when the seals begin to fail the oil level rises as well as becoming milky as the volume is increased by the addition of water.

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl


On 11 May 2018 at 06:15 "Rink de Haan rinkdehaan@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote: 

 

 

Dear all. I think it is time for some action from our moderator. The way Bill responds to a viable discussion doesn’t add value to this forum. There us no such thing as the absolute Amel way. Like for instance building an Emek arch on a 53. Which for Sure is the absolute wrong Amel way. The way you react Bill limits the interest of other Amel to interact, which is against the purpose of this group.. Texan anti intellectual rudeness is not the standard of this forum
Hope for better times
Rink de Haan
Amel 2k #330 Razors Edge


 

 


 

 




Re: New member question

pjn.mccallin@...
 

I am selling a 2003 MM2000 literally just arrived in Antigua. Suggest in first instance you review Boatshed sight.


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Fresh Water Pump

Porter McRoberts
 

Peter
Just 6 months ago I got a new one from Maud. 
Expensive, but it was there in a week. 
Have you asked Amel?

Porter
54-152

Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 

On May 11, 2018, at 4:23 AM, Peter Forbes ppsforbes@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

I am finding great difficulty finding a European source for the fresh water pump on my 54. The existing seems to draw 1 amp and pump 6 litres a minute. I can find one that draws 3.7 amps but I don’t know if that will be too much for that frigoboat circuit.

Any ideas?

Peter Forbes
00447836 209730


Fresh Water Pump

Peter Forbes
 

I am finding great difficulty finding a European source for the fresh water pump on my 54. The existing seems to draw 1 amp and pump 6 litres a minute. I can find one that draws 3.7 amps but I don’t know if that will be too much for that frigoboat circuit.

Any ideas?

Peter Forbes
00447836 209730


Re: Compensating for Additional Weight of Solar Installation

Alan Leslie
 

We have the EMEK arch and had the same issues...we just raised the waterline.
People go on about the exhaust ports being underwater, but it doesn't matter, if you're on stbd tack motor sailing the ports will be under water anyway no matter where your waterline paint is.
I an now VERY pleased not to have the buildup of slime under the aft sections of the boat.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] SM Prop Shaft Seal direction and Bush*** IMPORTANT RESPONSE***

Peter Forbes
 

Bill contributes enormous value to this forum from a huge base of invaluable probably unparalleled knowledge.

Thank you for all your help over the years of my Amel ownership.

Very sadly Carango Amel 54 #035 is now for sale.

Peter

Peter Forbes
00447836 209730

On 11 May 2018, at 01:17, James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Porter,


   Well put..  Bill Rouse IMO deserves a lot more respect than he seems to be receiving from some.  He has been there to help just about anyone that needed it on countless occasions including myself.  

   And while I am only coming into my third year as an Amel owner, I also feel that what is being called the “Amel-way” also deserves considerable respect which is backed by an amazing about of sailing miles and history.   

Best to all Amel owners,

James
SV Sueño
Maramu #220

On May 10, 2018, at 6:48 PM, Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

I am with Alex, Danny et al. 

The time, consideration,  free and concomitantly priceless advice Bill Rouse has selflessly contributed to the forum is immeasurable. And this goes for many others too. 
We can’t get offended by some vigorous debate.   That’s one of the facets of the forum which makes it great!  

I rarely see right for right’s sake here. I am consistently impressed with the selfless and time consuming responses to help others who we may never meet!  

The contributions by Bill and other are so invaluable.  

Please keep it up!!!

Porter
Ibis. 54-152 Bonaire
 

Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 

On May 10, 2018, at 4:05 PM, Alex Ramseyer alexramseyer@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Rink,
I don't agree.
Alex
SY NO STRESS
AMEL54

On Thursday, May 10, 2018, 3:53:51 PM GMT-4, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 

Hi Rink, I cant agree with you on this. Nor do I think an insulting crack at Texans is appropriate. Bill is always consistent. Polite, firm and unwavering. It does us no harm to have such a strong Amel advocate. Anyone who wishes can ignore him. As well as being sound advice, retaining the "fleet" as near to original is doing us all a big favor as it maintains the value of our unique vessels. Because of the work he does Bill has seen instances of modified Amels that have turned out less than satisfactory. I know of one new owner who has spent a small fortune replacing failing/failed modifications to restore the boat to Amel standard. As to the arches, personally I think they are ugly

Bill, please keep up the good work

I will add two comments. Possibly  hours in estruries or harbours like the Chesapeake and Delaware water with suspended silt will cause more rapid wear,Secondly..oil floats on water and I cannot see how oil could run or drip out the bottom. My observation is that when the seals begin to fail the oil level rises as well as becoming milky as the volume is increased by the addition of water.

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl


On 11 May 2018 at 06:15 "Rink de Haan rinkdehaan@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote: 

 

 

Dear all. I think it is time for some action from our moderator. The way Bill responds to a viable discussion doesn’t add value to this forum. There us no such thing as the absolute Amel way. Like for instance building an Emek arch on a 53. Which for Sure is the absolute wrong Amel way. The way you react Bill limits the interest of other Amel to interact, which is against the purpose of this group.. Texan anti intellectual rudeness is not the standard of this forum
Hope for better times
Rink de Haan
Amel 2k #330 Razors Edge


 

 


 

 




Re: New member question

paul.cooper74@...
 

Paul,

We did look at the two SNs for sale in Martinique.  The one with the Mitzubishi engine has been on a mooring, untouched, for a year and a half and is essentially a complete fixer-upper.  If one wanted to undertake that the price would be negotiable to rock bottom I imagine.  Definitely not something we would touch.  

The other one was as described:  clean, well-equipped and maintained with lots of upgrades, (perhaps too many).

In the end we decided we wanted more room aboard, and more speed,  so we have been shopping for a Super Maramu and still haven't found the right one.

Good luck.

Paul C.


Experiemental Chromed WOB Provided by Amel

rossirossix4
 

Hi Everyone,
Given recent postings on the WOB and my experience about a month ago I think it is a good time to post regarding an experiemental WOB that I had received from Amel.  I had received it in March, 2014 and thought, mistakenly that this was simply the new design that AMEL provided.  Instead, I learned later that these were trial versions that Amel had somehow provided to me.  Not sure if anyone else got them.  So here are the pics I posted back in September,  2014 -- https://www.dropbox.com/sc/1tompsdjss3rr0r/AACGUoVzzawY5RnlyKpnjwRga
.
In a phone conversation with Maud she confirmed that Amel was trying these out.  About 2 years ago I had installed this new type WOB in Turkey and changed it here in Malta and examined it carefully (note we visited Croatia and Venice on the way back, so the miles are there).  Please also note that I am making no claims about whether Amel should convert to these but I will tell you what I reported to Amel--which is that I was replacing the O ring inside and re-using the WOB!  Below is the content of my email to Maud and her response back to me.  I thought it was important to provide the information to Amel and give them time before placing it in front of the group.  Please also note that Adm Bill was privy to the info and he has contacted Amel to suggest they consider switching to the new WOB.

OK...the email to Maud on April 4 and her response on April 5.

"Hi Maud,

About 3.5 years ago you sent me an "experimental" WOB that Amel was trying out.  It is a normal bronze WOB with a stainless surface where the lip seals mount.  I was confused about it but in a later telephone conversation you talked with someone at Amel and then explained to me that Amel was trying out the new special WOB.  I promised to mount it and report back to you.

I serviced the Amel drive on my Super Maramu KAIMI #429 about 2 years ago and installed the special WOB.  Last week I serviced it again. There was virtually no wear on the WOB.  There was no evidence of water in the drive oil (90 wt) and the springs inside the seals were not rusted (I pack them with grease).

It is my impression that the WOB did very well.  While I could see some "polishing" could not detect any ridge or groove with my fingernail and I replaced the O ring inside the WOB and am re-using the WOB.   I plan to report back again on the next service in a year or 2.

I have included a link to photos of the removed WOB.  For comparison I show a regular used WOB.  You are welcome to forward this email to any others at Amel and I will be happy to answer any other questions that you have.

Click on individual images for larger photo --
https://photos.app.goo.gl/cW2QtzN7OeKaupoP2

Robert Rossi  SM#429 KAIMI"

Response back from Maud-- 
"Dear Robert,
Thank you for your nice message and detailed report. I will forward the results of your test to the AMEL technical department and I am certain they will be glad to hear it is very positive.
Thank you again for being such a supportive customer!!
Have a nice day.
With my kindest regards,

Maud TOUILLET
Service clientèle/Customer service"

Highlights--I could detect NO wear other than a bit of polishing where normally you would see a groove...note the used bronze version as a comparison.  There was no evidence of water in the 90 wt oil which I actually ran back through my Mr.Funnel to see if there was water--none-- and now have re-stored for possible future use.  Note also that there was no noticeable rust on the springs in the seals.  And, as noted, I am re-using the WOB.  We plan on pulling out for hurricane season in the Caribbean 14 months from now and I will re-check it.  Ironically, the entire process left me kind of upset with myself for even doing the change! 


Bob and Suzanne, KAIMI SM429 Gozo in the Maltese archipelago
 
 


Re: New member question

Paul Martin
 

Hi Paul,

I am new to the group as well and looking for my Amel.  I saw the two Santorin's in Martinique and was wondering what your impressions of the two were?  How did the one with the MItsubishi engine look?  The other one looks absolutely perfect.  What did you end up going with if I may ask?

Thank you,
Paul


Viewing an Amel in the PNW ?

wzgqluaj33gucu6gw4fjnjpvxylwommjo3tu5dzs@...
 

Hello,


I am wondering if it might be possible to view an Amel in the PNW ?  A dockside vist ?


I just sold my current sailboat that I have sailed for sixteen years and I believe that I would like to purchase an Amel now. 


I am wondering if it might be possible to view an Amel somewhere in the Washington or BC, Canada area.


I realize that this might be a bit of an odd request, but I would really like to view an Amel and talk to the owners before starting the search for my own. 


Thank you for your time.


Fair winds, Paul


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] SM Prop Shaft Seal direction and Bush*** IMPORTANT RESPONSE***

James Alton
 

Porter,

   Well put.  Bill Rouse IMO deserves a lot more respect than he seems to be receiving from some.  He has been there to help just about anyone that needed it on countless occasions including myself.  

   And while I am only coming into my third year as an Amel owner, I also feel that what is being called the “Amel-way” also deserves considerable respect which is backed by an amazing about of sailing miles and history.   

Best to all Amel owners,

James
SV Sueño
Maramu #220

On May 10, 2018, at 6:48 PM, Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

I am with Alex, Danny et al. 

The time, consideration,  free and concomitantly priceless advice Bill Rouse has selflessly contributed to the forum is immeasurable. And this goes for many others too. 
We can’t get offended by some vigorous debate.   That’s one of the facets of the forum which makes it great!  

I rarely see right for right’s sake here. I am consistently impressed with the selfless and time consuming responses to help others who we may never meet!  

The contributions by Bill and other are so invaluable.  

Please keep it up!!!

Porter
Ibis. 54-152 Bonaire
 

Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 

On May 10, 2018, at 4:05 PM, Alex Ramseyer alexramseyer@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Rink,
I don't agree.
Alex
SY NO STRESS
AMEL54

On Thursday, May 10, 2018, 3:53:51 PM GMT-4, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 

Hi Rink, I cant agree with you on this. Nor do I think an insulting crack at Texans is appropriate. Bill is always consistent. Polite, firm and unwavering. It does us no harm to have such a strong Amel advocate. Anyone who wishes can ignore him. As well as being sound advice, retaining the "fleet" as near to original is doing us all a big favor as it maintains the value of our unique vessels. Because of the work he does Bill has seen instances of modified Amels that have turned out less than satisfactory. I know of one new owner who has spent a small fortune replacing failing/failed modifications to restore the boat to Amel standard. As to the arches, personally I think they are ugly

Bill, please keep up the good work

I will add two comments. Possibly  hours in estruries or harbours like the Chesapeake and Delaware water with suspended silt will cause more rapid wear,Secondly..oil floats on water and I cannot see how oil could run or drip out the bottom. My observation is that when the seals begin to fail the oil level rises as well as becoming milky as the volume is increased by the addition of water.

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl


On 11 May 2018 at 06:15 "Rink de Haan rinkdehaan@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote: 

 

 

Dear all. I think it is time for some action from our moderator. The way Bill responds to a viable discussion doesn’t add value to this forum. There us no such thing as the absolute Amel way. Like for instance building an Emek arch on a 53. Which for Sure is the absolute wrong Amel way. The way you react Bill limits the interest of other Amel to interact, which is against the purpose of this group.. Texan anti intellectual rudeness is not the standard of this forum
Hope for better times
Rink de Haan
Amel 2k #330 Razors Edge


 

 


 

 




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Main sheet boom slider broken

karkauai
 

That would do it, Alan ;-)>
I like Steve’s solution with strict instructions to crew.


Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy
SM243

On May 10, 2018, at 2:12 AM, divanz620@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

The biggest problem is the main sheet attachment. We've broken two of them becsause of over enthusiatic crew on the mainsheet button

My solution : 
1. make an aluminium piece of the same thickness but a bit longer and WELD it to the boom.
2. trip the cct breaker for the main sheet winch so it MUST be wound in manually.

Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437....just arrived Savusavu, Fiji.....


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] SM Prop Shaft Seal direction and Bush*** IMPORTANT RESPONSE***

Porter McRoberts
 

I am with Alex, Danny et al. 
The time, consideration,  free and concomitantly priceless advice Bill Rouse has selflessly contributed to the forum is immeasurable. And this goes for many others too. 
We can’t get offended by some vigorous debate.   That’s one of the facets of the forum which makes it great!  

I rarely see right for right’s sake here. I am consistently impressed with the selfless and time consuming responses to help others who we may never meet!  

The contributions by Bill and other are so invaluable.  

Please keep it up!!!

Porter
Ibis. 54-152 Bonaire
 

Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 

On May 10, 2018, at 4:05 PM, Alex Ramseyer alexramseyer@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Rink,
I don't agree.
Alex
SY NO STRESS
AMEL54

On Thursday, May 10, 2018, 3:53:51 PM GMT-4, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 

Hi Rink, I cant agree with you on this. Nor do I think an insulting crack at Texans is appropriate. Bill is always consistent. Polite, firm and unwavering. It does us no harm to have such a strong Amel advocate. Anyone who wishes can ignore him. As well as being sound advice, retaining the "fleet" as near to original is doing us all a big favor as it maintains the value of our unique vessels. Because of the work he does Bill has seen instances of modified Amels that have turned out less than satisfactory. I know of one new owner who has spent a small fortune replacing failing/failed modifications to restore the boat to Amel standard. As to the arches, personally I think they are ugly

Bill, please keep up the good work

I will add two comments. Possibly  hours in estruries or harbours like the Chesapeake and Delaware water with suspended silt will cause more rapid wear,Secondly..oil floats on water and I cannot see how oil could run or drip out the bottom. My observation is that when the seals begin to fail the oil level rises as well as becoming milky as the volume is increased by the addition of water.

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl


On 11 May 2018 at 06:15 "Rink de Haan rinkdehaan@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Dear all. I think it is time for some action from our moderator. The way Bill responds to a viable discussion doesn’t add value to this forum. There us no such thing as the absolute Amel way. Like for instance building an Emek arch on a 53. Which for Sure is the absolute wrong Amel way. The way you react Bill limits the interest of other Amel to interact, which is against the purpose of this group. Texan anti intellectual rudeness is not the standard of this forum
Hope for better times
Rink de Haan
Amel 2k #330 Razors Edge


 

 


 

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] SM Prop Shaft Seal direction and Bush*** IMPORTANT RESPONSE***

Jose Venegas
 

Danny and Bill,

First, I don't take it personally our interaction and also respect and by-enlarge agree with your conservative approach to keeping the boat as close as possible to the original design.  I also agree that the safest approach for new owners, particularly those without background or experience should stay within the original specs.  So I don't see as a personal argument but more as an open discussion that may or may not lead to a better solution for some of the small issues of our boats. 

For example, adding grease ports to the furling gears can prolong the life of these very expensive parts for a long time.  The "amel way" resulted in the replacement of two gears by the previous owner and onece by me.  This is a clear example of how the "amel way" COULD BE can be improved.

Now, we all know that milky oil in the C-Drive is something common in most of our boats in spite of trying to strictly follow the "amel way".   We also know that Amel has been experimenting with ways to reduce the premature entry of water by making harder bushings and that in Martinique they have been changing the scheme having two seals to prevent water in and only one to prevent oil out.  You also told me that they now recommend heavier oil and that they had worked on a  hardened bushing surface that seems to work but Maud told me that they did not plan to sell them it in the future.  So even Amel has recognized the need to work on reducing the incidence of water leaking into the C-Drive which may not kill it but even you would agree is not good.  And that has been my motivation to write these posts.

As for Danny statement that oil cannot leave because it is lighter than water, it all depends on which direction the seals are oriented. With the Amel way, water is only prevented to come by the outer seal. Once it is gone, water can flow up along the two other seals that are not preventing that motion. In my experiment I had both the inner and central seals with the lips facing the propeller (preventing water from coming in but allowing oil to move out)  The outer seal was facing the C-drive, thus acting to prevent the oil from leaking out but allowing some lubrication by the water.  My experience was that after 4 and 1/2 seasons there was a very slow reduction of the oil level when the outer seal/bushing wore out.  However, this leak was eliminated by adding the additive that made the oil heavier.  So, water or oil can move in or out depending on the direction of the seals that remain working.  

With my approach, the outer seal was the only one preventing oil from leaving and, just as I observed, oil began to flow out very slowly when that seal/bush surface wear developed a leak since the two inner seals did not prevent the flow of oil out.  The good news was that the leak was very very slow and that making the oil heavier acted to make that last seal work again since the additional viscous pressure drop forced the seal lip towards the shaft preventing or minimizing a further oil leak.  Note that from there on the seal was well lubricated by a minimal oil leak and likely would have kept working for a long time before oil began to flow out again.  

The good news is that this approach allows you to keep sailing until you find the proper place to do the repair and, as in my experience of 5 seasons without damaging the C-Drive.  Note that I kept the bushing/seals in place as an experiment and not as a recommendation to the general user, BUT MY EXPERIENCE LEADS ME TO RECOMMEND THE ALTERNATIVE SEAL ORIENTATION to eliminate the milky oil and give you the time to find a proper site for repairing it 

Of course, everyone is free to take it or not my recommendation and I hope that within the coming years we compare notes to see how things are going.  I do promise that I will immediately report if my C-Drive freezes ;)

No hard feelings and this closes my chapter FOR this topic until at least 2 years.

Fair winds

Jose
Ipanema SM2K 278






Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] SM Prop Shaft Seal direction and Bush*** IMPORTANT RESPONSE***

Teun BAAS <teunbaas@...>
 

I believe Danny refers to me as the “new to AMEL owner who spent a small fortune” and he is absolutely right.

 

Clearly for the original owner of my boat money was not so much an object. He ordered EURO285K on AMEL options when she was built and spent, during his ownership, a huge amount of money on maintenance & upgrades performed by the some of the most reputable yards in EUROPE and NEW ZEALAND (all as per original invoices on board). The problem was that all these craftsmen only focused on their task at hand while completely ignoring how everything worked together as they were unaware of the AMEL philosophy as in (unnecessarily) drilling another raw water inlet for the new state of the art water maker.

 

I had trained for 3 weeks on a private AMEL 54 charter in the Caribbean where, at my specific request, doing maintenance (oil changes, heat exchanger removal for acid cleaning etc. etc.) was part of the charter. However when I arrived on “my” boat in December 2017 and sat in the engine room I absolutely didn’t recognize the bulk head; all the hoses crawling over & under each other; unable to get to the fridge strainer without twisting myself in a pretzel, where is the bilge pump?, where is the fresh water pump? etc. and wondered if there could have been such a difference between the 2007 and the 2009 productions

 

I met both Judy and Bill in their house in GALVESTON TX during hurricane HARVEY when I retained Bill as a purchase consultant; in the (pre) purchase process Bill made himself tirelessly available; frequently checking in & up on me while I was in NEW CALEDONIA living on the boat during the initial 3 months getting her ready for a sea-trial. He exceeded well over the allotted hours of the pre-purchase agreement w/o asking for additional compensation. My seller engaged Bill to go to NEW CALEDONIA for 1 week to hand the boat over to me; this handover was delayed at least twice. So many issues emerged that, frustrated, both the seller and I asked Bill to come over even as the boat was unable to move (due to an engine electrical fire the day after I arrived on board).

 

Bill’s involvement demonstrated his value for a NEW AMEL owner, unfamiliar with AMEL I didn’t understand nor appreciate the peculiarities of the way the boat is designed & built. But I specifically purchased an AMEL because of its reputation for quality, safety & reliability; I didn’t buy a “sail boat” but I wanted an AMEL!!!

 

By the time Bill arrived the boat had passed the complete survey (by the ex AMEL agent for the SP) except for the sea-trial as we didn’t have a running engine and were waiting for spare parts. Before Bill arrived the seller, from time to time, balked at some of the issues we reported (boat had NOT sailed for 20 months); once Bill was on board and every evening sent the seller a report (including pictures) of his findings there was NO more discussion and everything was replaced & restored to the OEM specs as well as equipment. For example: the seller had replaced the AMEL fresh water pump with a very expensive (USD1,500 to USD2,000) XCALIBUR pump; it failed. He reported a spare to be on board. That one (used) didn’t work either – so he clearly had 2 of these pumps during ownership and both failed. I frequently had gray water in the engine room; Bill determined that the AMEL bilge pump was replaced for a submerged pump etc. etc. A 5000 watt VICTRON was installed on the location of the original bilge pump as the original location for the charger was used by the new (state of the art) water maker etc. etc.

230V & 5000 watt VICTRON were right next to the raw water intake and the gray water bilge. Bill decided this was a major hazard and needed to change; again a major (expensive) exercise moving the VICTRON from the engine room (no room) to the closet near the pilot berth.

Some of major items seller & I shared the cost like the new engine (after spending USD15K on parts & labor and still NOT working) but the majority of all the costs were paid by the seller.  

 

Without Bill I would have taken delivery of the boat as the surveyor didn’t pick up on any of this as technically everything worked and was marine grade and functional for a sailboat – but it was not for an AMEL sailboat. Bill was of so much help to both seller and me during the 1st week that we jointly paid for extending his stay with another week. He worked tirelessly ALL day and I while was worn out at night he would still be on his computer for hours doing research on issues relating to my boat as well as replying other people with their AMEL questions.

 

Yes Bill is very, very set in his AMEL way but, in all honesty, from what I read on the forum in almost all cases the AMEL design has been well thought out & tested over time. Looking at my original owner he though he improved on AMEL by buying hugely more expensive pumps, motors, equipment etc.; had them installed by top of the line yards (the NEW ZEALAND yard handled AMERICA CUP boats) and over all with a disappointing, unsafe & unreliable final result.

 

I don’t have the feeling Bill is not open to discussion and surely I always found Judy and him to be extremely polite, typical Southern USA lady & gentleman - the complete opposite of my rambunctious, obnoxious Dutch in your face “say as you see it”  

If have had discussions with Bill while he is still doing this, at his age fly all over the world (NEW CAL for me; Spain last month) to help, introduce & train people with their AMEL. Surely he doesn’t need the money – he is just completely dedicated to AMEL.

 

Finally – I have been reading fori for the last 20 to 30 years; motorcycles; motorhomes, cars, cruising etc. etc. and invariably there is always name calling which then degrades into worse. I was telling somebody else here in the marina the other day that The AMEL OWNER GROUP forum is the only forum I am aware of without any of the disrespectful annotations: just an exchange of opinions & experiences of real AMEL sailors. Let’s keep it that way.

 

Best Regards Teun BAAS

AMELIT A54 #128

NOUMEA NEW CALEDONIA

May 11, 2018   09:10:30

 

 

 

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2018 6:50 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] SM Prop Shaft Seal direction and Bush*** IMPORTANT RESPONSE***

 

 

Hi Rink, I cant agree with you on this. Nor do I think an insulting crack at Texans is appropriate. Bill is always consistent. Polite, firm and unwavering. It does us no harm to have such a strong Amel advocate. Anyone who wishes can ignore him. As well as being sound advice, retaining the "fleet" as near to original is doing us all a big favor as it maintains the value of our unique vessels. Because of the work he does Bill has seen instances of modified Amels that have turned out less than satisfactory. I know of one new owner who has spent a small fortune replacing failing/failed modifications to restore the boat to Amel standard. As to the arches, personally I think they are ugly

Bill, please keep up the good work

I will add two comments. Possibly  hours in estruries or harbours like the Chesapeake and Delaware water with suspended silt will cause more rapid wear,Secondly..oil floats on water and I cannot see how oil could run or drip out the bottom. My observation is that when the seals begin to fail the oil level rises as well as becoming milky as the volume is increased by the addition of water.

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

 

On 11 May 2018 at 06:15 "Rink de Haan rinkdehaan@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Dear all. I think it is time for some action from our moderator. The way Bill responds to a viable discussion doesn’t add value to this forum. There us no such thing as the absolute Amel way. Like for instance building an Emek arch on a 53. Which for Sure is the absolute wrong Amel way. The way you react Bill limits the interest of other Amel to interact, which is against the purpose of this group. Texan anti intellectual rudeness is not the standard of this forum

Hope for better times

Rink de Haan

Amel 2k #330 Razors Edge

 

 

 

 


 


 


Re: SM Prop Shaft Seal direction and Bush***RESPONSE TO *** IMPORTAN

Craig Briggs
 

HI Miles,

Yes, of course it's (mainly) a function of motoring hours and I think Jose agrees. I've been motoring about 400 hours a year lately, but my bottom paint lasts about 3 years, so I'm keen to have a long-lived solution. 

Super that you never get water in the oil. From posts to this forum that seems to be the exception, but more power to you!. 

I do think there are other factors involved here, such as different propellers in differing states of maintenance giving differing amounts of vibration; alignment of the drive shaft, condition of engine mounts etc., all playing on vibration and the efficacy of the lip seals. The hardness of the bearing and orientation of the rotary shaft seals are certainly key factors, but if you add it all up there is likely a wide variation between all our boats.

So, in your case, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" - keep it like the Captain divined and Admiral CW Bill proselytizes! (Can't recall if that was one in and two out as you noted or two in and one out, but whatever.)

Cheers, Craig


---In amelyachtowners@..., <milesbid@...> wrote :

Jose, Craig,

 

I don’t understand why two years has any significance.  The original Amel instructions were to change the wearing out bearing every 650 hours.  How much the bearing wears is a function of engine hours not time.   Any valid comparison test would need to for the same number of hours at the same engine speed.

For over 5000 engine hours, I have changed the wearing out bearing using lots of silicone grease and following the Amel instructions of the first bearing facing in and the outer two bearings facing out.  I have done this (or Amel has done it) every 650 hours or so.  I have never had any problem of water in the oil or loss of oil.    I have had  my boat since it was new and I learned early on that everything that Amel does or recommends is for a reason.   

 

Regards,

 

Miles

s/y Ladybug, sm 216, Le Marin Martinique