Date   

Re: Travel on the US East Coast

Duane Siegfri
 

Has there been a date/time/place set yet for the rendezvous?

Thanks,
Duane
Wanderer, SM#477


Gas shut off

Patrick McAneny
 

I am not getting any power to my propane switch. I bought a wire tracer and cannot trace the wire. The solenoid is 12v . Does anyone know where the 12v power source would originate? I could not find a 12v buss bar . The solenoid works , I jumped it across the starter battery , with a meter I cannot find any voltage at the switch. It could be as simple as a blown fuse.

Thanks,

Pat SM#123


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Bow Thruster Rusted Shut [1 Attachment]

rettirc@...
 

About 8 months ago took me 3 days of frustration, fearing the worst, thinking that it would never come out. It eventually came.

Just be persistent as mentioned, keep spraying penetrating oil you will get there.

I just removed the thruster again this week for new gears, it was out in 30 minutes.

Tonight I shall be reinstating the unit.

Can't wait to test it with new gears and prop.

Chris
Jaygo
SM224


Re: Bow Thruster Rusted Shut

greatketch@...
 

When we had our main drive motor rebuilt, we were told by company that did the work that about the only thing that kills these motors is if the splined shaft wears out or is otherwise damaged.  As far as I know these motors are now irreplaceable (if somebody know otherwise, please speak up!).

In short, you will HAVE to get the shaft out of the motor.  Work really long and really hard at it.  DO not cut the shaft.  That will cause a cascade of issues that will be really hard to put right.  Remember, the shaft is a carbon fiber tube, with a steel drive shaft inside.  I can not think of a way to put it back together so it will work as it should.

This will be really hard, but worth taking all the advice available on the forum and trying ALL of it.  When you DO get it apart, you will understand why the maintenance schedule is to drop this at least every two years and apply a good waterproof grease to the splines.  

If properly maintained, this won't ever be a problem again.  After reading so many horror stories on here about this issue, I was dreading my first bow thruster maintenance. Harmonie's previous owner did such a good job maintaining things, when I took out the last of the four bolts, the drive unit fell out of the motor all by itself with only gravity pulling.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Deltaville, VA, USA

---In amelyachtowners@..., <steve@...> wrote :

Complete Fail.
I tried everything, but that shaft is not coming out. Ever. I was super clamped on with the custom tool that I had made. Can't say how much force was on that thing, but it was enough to make it impossible to turn those four bolts. Best I can think of is that the spindled shaft inside has fused to the receiver. I'll have to dive the prop to replace. "Changing prop while boat is in the water" is off the table. Going to have to cut that shaft if I ever want it to come out, I'm afraid. Open to all ideas...
-Capt Bode


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Slowing down in increasing winds

greatketch@...
 

I'll have to think about the gooseneck, and how it changes things...  a good thought...  And I agree the elasticity of the mainsheet can help... but only to a point.  If the mainsheet stretches enough to allow the boom to hit the shrouds, more problems can occur than are solved.

There is another really important piece of the puzzle, that someone else mentioned earlier in this discussion.  The position of the traveler has a huge impact on the amount of damage that can happen in a gybe.  

If the traveler is centered, and the boom is eased out only with the mainsheet, a gybe can be really dangerous.  With that much mainsheet out, the boom can rise when it crosses, when the mainsail goose-wings around the mast.  It can rise enough to actually hit the backstay as it comes across.  If the boom was out touching (or very close to touching) the aft lower shroud, when it comes across it can impact the aft lower shroud on the other side.  Both of these scenarios are potentially disastrous both to the boom--and the rig itself.

If the traveler is all the way over to the leeward side, then these problems can't happen, or at least are minimized, because the mainsheet is so much shorter, and the boom is stopped halfway across, before it can get really moving.

One of the things I really love about the Amel set up is that the traveler is long enough to actually be really useful as a sail trim tool. When sailing anything upwind of a beam reach, we  adjust the traveler far more often than we do the mainsheet.  If we are sailing downwind, the traveler is always (no exceptions--ever) eased down to the leeward side.

There are aways two parts to preventing damage in an accidental gybe.  First is avoid the gybe in the first place.  A nice idea, but it will happen to everybody.  The second part is to be sure the boat is set up so damage is avoided or minimized.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Deltaville, VA, USA


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Slowing down in increasing winds

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi  bill and all. This acidental gybe discussion started from a boat having to do a crash gybe to avoid a collision. Opinions were given regarding lifting the pin on the traveller line control winch to allow the traveller to run free in the gybe. I expressed concern at the lack of control on the boom leading to excessive shock loading. The proper way to gybe is to pull the mainsheet in, pass in a controlled manner through the gybe and as the load comes on feed the mainsheet out quickly but with some restraint. In racing I have seen split mains and bent booms when this is  not done. In pur situations as .mum snd dad sailors with octen only one on watch we cant slways do it the best way so we must do sll we can to reduce shock loading. When gybing by choice i remove the preventer' the traveller stays fully extended.in dtrongercwind I would centralize the traveller I pull the mainsheet in. Then i gybe, then wind the traveller scross to the new side. Be prepared for high loads on the winch handle as you wind across.  As to the attachment point for the preventer I hope you all use the mainsheet spot' not the forward boom vang attachment point. In extreme conditions don't gybe. Go head to wind and tack and bear away to the new course. We call that a granny gybe. Alternatively when you are head to wind do what you should have done before the conditions got extreme and furl the main and mizzen. 

Regsrds

Danny

SM 299

Ocean pearl

On 30 May 2mizzen 018 at 14:57 "greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

It is important to remember that the Amel tackles are vangs to pull the boom down and control sail shape, and are really very poorly set up to function as preventers--no matter what Amel calls them.


Anytime the boom is further outboard of the end of the traveler, we tension the vang to control sail shape and keep leech tension up and reduce excessive twist.  The boat goes faster with the whole sail, top to bottom, trimmed to a proper angle to the wind

In strong winds and rough seas counting on a line connected to the middle of the boom to stop an accidental gybe is a very bad idea.  Never on an Amel, but on other boats, I have seen lines rigged that way cause the boom to fold in half in an accidental gybe, or when a deep roll caused the end of the boom to dip into a wave.  That ruins your whole day.

A REAL preventer is attached at the outboard END of the boom and lead forward, then aft to the cockpit so it can be eased--under control--if needed.  

We never sail wing-on-wing on Harmonie.  If we are going downwind, the ballooner is set. If we are not going downwind long enough to justify the effort of the ballooner, we reach at 150 degrees to the true wind and then we make better VMG downwind than we would wing-on-wing.  If we really need to sail straight downwind a short distance for some reason, I furl the main and go jib-n-jigger. We might lose a little speed, but for a short distance, the peace of mind is more than worth it to me.

I personally would never sail wing-on-wing with the main boom anything other than fully out to the shrouds.  An accidental gybe happens when the boom crosses the wind.  If the boom is not all the way out--as far as it can go--you make an accidental gybe that much more likely.  It is not worth it.

The number of boats I have seen seriously damaged by an accidental gybe has taught me to avoid them at all cost.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Norfolk, VA, USA

 


 


 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: rig tuning

Ryan Meador
 

Thank you for finding that, Bill!  It sounds like I will need to slack all my rigging and start from scratch, which I think will necessitate a professional.  Olivier has also graciously agreed to come visit my boat and take a look, which I'm sure will teach me a lot.

Thanks,
Ryan and Kelly
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA



On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 8:01 PM, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Ryan (and everybody else)


The one thing I hate about this forum host is the totally AWFUL search capabilities it has.  It took a bit of digging to find, but here is the link to the rigging procedure that Olivier posted. It is really helpful, and makes things really clear.  There are several things in the initial set up that are going to be unique to the precision that Amel used in building these boats, but the final tensioning is pretty much the way I always handled any boat.


If you have an Amel to which this procedure relates, do what I just did and SAVE this link, and print it out for future reference.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Norfolk, VA, USA



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Bow Thruster Rusted Shut

James Alton
 

Bode,

   Mark is giving you good advice, go slow and have patience.  My bow thruster was stuck as well but after a couple days of spraying penetrants in the holes and lots of gentle tapping it came out.  I used a raw hide mallet to do the tapping to prevent damage but a block of wood and a steel hammer should work as well.  I think that taps from each side alternating helps to loosen the joint between the motor and the shaft.  If you search on this subject there have been a lot other owners that were able to remove bow thrusters that were stuck.

Best of luck,

James
SV Sueño
Maramu #220

On May 30, 2018, at 8:46 AM, 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Bode,

 

Using the special Amel tool, the removal process can take several days. Tighten the tool, spray penetrating oil, repeat. 

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2018 8:03 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Bow Thruster Rusted Shut [1 Attachment]

 

  

[Attachment(s) from steve@... [amelyachtowners] included below]

Complete Fail.

I tried everything, but that shaft is not coming out. Ever. I was super clamped on with the custom tool that I had made. Can't say how much force was on that thing, but it was enough to make it impossible to turn those four bolts. Best I can think of is that the spindled shaft inside has fused to the receiver. I'll have to dive the prop to replace. "Changing prop while boat is in the water" is off the table. Going to have to cut that shaft if I ever want it to come out, I'm afraid. Open to all ideas...

-Capt Bode

 




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Bow Thruster Rusted Shut [1 Attachment]

 

Steve,

I am confused. What do you mean, "Can't say how much force was on that thing, but it was enough to make it impossible to turn those four bolts. "

​Which four bolts?

The most important ingredient with this job is patience, next is lots of penetrating fluid, next is tapping or vibrating, and last is downward pressure.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970





On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 7:02 AM, steve@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
[Attachment(s) from steve@... [amelyachtowners] included below]

Complete Fail.

I tried everything, but that shaft is not coming out. Ever. I was super clamped on with the custom tool that I had made. Can't say how much force was on that thing, but it was enough to make it impossible to turn those four bolts. Best I can think of is that the spindled shaft inside has fused to the receiver. I'll have to dive the prop to replace. "Changing prop while boat is in the water" is off the table. Going to have to cut that shaft if I ever want it to come out, I'm afraid. Open to all ideas...
-Capt Bode



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Bow Thruster Rusted Shut [1 Attachment]

Craig Briggs
 

Agree with Mark and I'd say add rotational and impact forces to the stew. 


---In amelyachtowners@..., <mcerdos@...> wrote :

Bode,

 

Using the special Amel tool, the removal process can take several days. Tighten the tool, spray penetrating oil, repeat.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2018 8:03 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Bow Thruster Rusted Shut [1 Attachment]

 

 

[Attachment(s) from steve@... [amelyachtowners] included below]

Complete Fail.

I tried everything, but that shaft is not coming out. Ever. I was super clamped on with the custom tool that I had made. Can't say how much force was on that thing, but it was enough to make it impossible to turn those four bolts. Best I can think of is that the spindled shaft inside has fused to the receiver. I'll have to dive the prop to replace. "Changing prop while boat is in the water" is off the table. Going to have to cut that shaft if I ever want it to come out, I'm afraid. Open to all ideas...

-Capt Bode

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Bow Thruster Rusted Shut [1 Attachment]

Mark Erdos
 

Bode,

 

Using the special Amel tool, the removal process can take several days. Tighten the tool, spray penetrating oil, repeat.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2018 8:03 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Bow Thruster Rusted Shut [1 Attachment]

 

 

[Attachment(s) from steve@... [amelyachtowners] included below]

Complete Fail.

I tried everything, but that shaft is not coming out. Ever. I was super clamped on with the custom tool that I had made. Can't say how much force was on that thing, but it was enough to make it impossible to turn those four bolts. Best I can think of is that the spindled shaft inside has fused to the receiver. I'll have to dive the prop to replace. "Changing prop while boat is in the water" is off the table. Going to have to cut that shaft if I ever want it to come out, I'm afraid. Open to all ideas...

-Capt Bode

 


Re: Bow Thruster Rusted Shut

Steven Bode - SV Intention 1994-SM#117
 

Complete Fail.
I tried everything, but that shaft is not coming out. Ever. I was super clamped on with the custom tool that I had made. Can't say how much force was on that thing, but it was enough to make it impossible to turn those four bolts. Best I can think of is that the spindled shaft inside has fused to the receiver. I'll have to dive the prop to replace. "Changing prop while boat is in the water" is off the table. Going to have to cut that shaft if I ever want it to come out, I'm afraid. Open to all ideas...
-Capt Bode


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Slowing down in increasing winds

Ian Park
 

Wow
I didn’t intend to open a big discussion like that. I always gybe the usual way like Danny describes. But I did leave the knob across once and there was an accidental gybe. There was no impact shock load as the whole car system slowed the final arrest of the boom, so no sudden full load on the traveller or boom attachments.
Just for the record I wasn’t advocating this as a method of gybing. The main sheet is so easy to pull in by hand on the winch that control is simple.
In my early days of ownership the mainsheet did catch the midships centre knob a couple of times (sometimes the mainsheet gets jammed against its own top pulley leaving one strand hanging loose). Since then I removed that knob and only use the outer one to hold the window down. Never had a problem since, nor any leaks.

Happy gybing everyone
Off back to UK tomorrow from. Antigua and it looks like there might be some long downwind days............

Ian
Ocean Hobo SN96


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Slowing down in increasing winds

James Alton
 

Bill,

   Your comment about a real preventer needing to run to the end of a boom raises some interesting questions.  Namely what are some factors that determine the shock loading that the boom and the rig receives in an uncontrolled gybe?  Here a a few things that I believe are significant:

1.  The elasticity of the mainsheet.  A modern super low stretch fiber as opposed to using conventional Dacron for instance will greatly increase the shock load.   

2.  Because our mainsheet attaches to the bottom of the boom and the mass of the boom is I assume above the centreline of the boom with the sail attached, the ability of the boom to rotate longitudinally should absorb some of the shock since that rotation would occur in opposition to the membrane of the sail.  A fixed/ non rotating gooseneck on the other hand would receive a large torsional load by comparison.   I would very much be interested in your input on the rotating gooseneck design of our boats because I had not thought much about it until this discussion came up,  but I am starting to like it.   

I would like to add that compared to what I am used to on other boats, the weldements on the boom for the attachment of the mainsheet seem to be incredibly strong.  The boom itself also seems to be a heavier extrusion than what I would expect for a boat the size of mine.   Being a Ketch of course shortens both the main and the mizzen booms and thereby reduces the risks of a jibe causing damage.  While all measures to prevent an accidental jibe are important,  it seems to me that Amel may have done a lot to help reduce the risk of damage to the rig due to an uncontrolled gybe.  

Does anyone know of an instance where the main or mizzen boom or rig of a SM,  SN or Maramu was damaged in an uncontrolled gybe?   That could be an interesting data point given the Ocean miles that some of these boats have accumulated over the years.

Thanks!

James
SV Sueño
Maramu #220


On May 29, 2018, at 10:57 PM, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

It is important to remember that the Amel tackles are vangs to pull the boom down and control sail shape, and are really very poorly set up to function as preventers--no matter what Amel calls them.


Anytime the boom is further outboard of the end of the traveler, we tension the vang to control sail shape and keep leech tension up and reduce excessive twist.  The boat goes faster with the whole sail, top to bottom, trimmed to a proper angle to the wind

In strong winds and rough seas counting on a line connected to the middle of the boom to stop an accidental gybe is a very bad idea.  Never on an Amel, but on other boats, I have seen lines rigged that way cause the boom to fold in half in an accidental gybe, or when a deep roll caused the end of the boom to dip into a wave.  That ruins your whole day.

A REAL preventer is attached at the outboard END of the boom and lead forward, then af t to the cockpit so it can be eased--under control--if needed.  

We never sail wing-on-wing on Harmonie.  If we are going downwind, the ballooner is set. If we are not going downwind long enough to justify the effort of the ballooner, we reach at 150 degrees to the true wind and then we make better VMG downwind than we would wing-on-wing.  If we really need to sail straight downwind a short distance for some reason, I furl the main and go jib-n-jigger. We might lose a little speed, but for a short distance, the peace of mind is more than worth it to me.

I personally would never sail wing-on-wing with the main boom anything other than fully out to the shrouds.  An accidental gybe happens when the boom crosses the wind.  If the boom is not all the way out--as far as it can go--you make an accidental gybe that much more likely.  It is not worth it.

The number of boats I have seen seriously damaged by an accidental gybe has taught me to avoid them at all cost.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Norfolk, VA, USA




Re: Slowing down in increasing winds

Alan Leslie
 

Well Bill, maybe we're not all as good as you.
It's happened to me a number of times when things haven't gone quite according to plan and there's not much distance between the mainsheet going to the second block and that knob.
I feel much better with my knob on the inside !
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Re: Slowing down in increasing winds

greatketch@...
 

It is important to remember that the Amel tackles are vangs to pull the boom down and control sail shape, and are really very poorly set up to function as preventers--no matter what Amel calls them.

Anytime the boom is further outboard of the end of the traveler, we tension the vang to control sail shape and keep leech tension up and reduce excessive twist.  The boat goes faster with the whole sail, top to bottom, trimmed to a proper angle to the wind

In strong winds and rough seas counting on a line connected to the middle of the boom to stop an accidental gybe is a very bad idea.  Never on an Amel, but on other boats, I have seen lines rigged that way cause the boom to fold in half in an accidental gybe, or when a deep roll caused the end of the boom to dip into a wave.  That ruins your whole day.

A REAL preventer is attached at the outboard END of the boom and lead forward, then aft to the cockpit so it can be eased--under control--if needed.  

We never sail wing-on-wing on Harmonie.  If we are going downwind, the ballooner is set. If we are not going downwind long enough to justify the effort of the ballooner, we reach at 150 degrees to the true wind and then we make better VMG downwind than we would wing-on-wing.  If we really need to sail straight downwind a short distance for some reason, I furl the main and go jib-n-jigger. We might lose a little speed, but for a short distance, the peace of mind is more than worth it to me.

I personally would never sail wing-on-wing with the main boom anything other than fully out to the shrouds.  An accidental gybe happens when the boom crosses the wind.  If the boom is not all the way out--as far as it can go--you make an accidental gybe that much more likely.  It is not worth it.

The number of boats I have seen seriously damaged by an accidental gybe has taught me to avoid them at all cost.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Norfolk, VA, USA


Re: Slowing down in increasing winds

greatketch@...
 

.......and talking of snagging something, how many times has your main sheet got caught around that knob near the centerline that latches the windscreen shut?

Errrr... Never!  Not once in 20,000 miles. I am not sure how that could even happen.  

In a tack the mainsheet is tight at the beginning middle and end.  During a gybe, the mainsheet is tightened and the traveler moved before the stern is turned through the wind.  Other than an accidental gybe, when would you ever let the boom move across with a slack mainsheet?  

Even in an accidental gybe, the wind is from aft and the traveler off to what was the leeward side, there is STILL no way for the sheet to snag that knob.  

Maybe you just don't use the traveler as you should?

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Norfolk, VA, USA


Re: SM2000 353 Indecent

richard.colebatch <no_reply@...>
 

Could you also send the info to me please.  richardcolebatch609@...

Many thanks.


Re: SM2000 353 Indecent

Michael Ward
 

Please send sale info.


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Slowing down in increasing winds

karkauai
 

Hmmm, maybe I’m just lucky, but that’s never happened on Kristy.

Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy
SM243