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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Alternator and Masse leak detector
John Clark
My SM#37, with Volvo TMD22 requires a rev for tach and 12v alternator to fire off. Not sure if it is right but it has been stable for last year. John Clark SV Annie SM37 enroute to St. Lucia.
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Shore Side Circuit Breaker Tripping When Plugging in Boat
pacificcool@...
I have a 220 volt Super Maramu from 1995 (#141) which is currently in Fort Lauderdale waiting to be sold. I moved to a new dock yesterday and when I plugged into the 50 Amp shore power outlet, the circuit breaker in the house tripped. At the previous dock (where i had stayed only two days), there was only 115volts with a 15 Amp circuit breaker. Before plugging in to the first house, I turned off all 220 volt circuit breakers in the boat except the battery charger which can accept any voltage per the manual (it's a Victron 80 Amp charger). The GFI tripped and would not reset. I suspect something happened there that affected my boat. Maybe a fuse blew or a hidden breaker tripped, but I cannot find it. Does anyone know if there is a fuse or hidden breaker that could be tripped? Or can anyone suggest a fix? Best Regards Bill Shaproski S/V Pacific Cool
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Re: Alternator and Masse leak detector
greatketch@...
Nick, There are no "partial failures" of diodes. As solid state devices they either work--or not. When they fail they fail "open" and block current flow in both directions. It is possible, I guess, you could have a short circuit inside the alternator somewhere, but the chances of it working at all would then be pretty close to zero. Bill Kinney SM160, Harmonie Annapolis, MD, USA ---In amelyachtowners@..., <kwzy6vgkpvtfohjddjsrotobzwf2pjeafjwalhur@...> wrote : Hello fellow Amelians, I have had a great passage to the Azores from Antigua (14.5 days). Some months ago I asked the forum about exciting the 24v alternator and was advised by Bill to check the relay and excitation circuit which I did. However I still have the same problem that the alternator needs 1500 rpm to "kick in". Once kicked in I can throttle back idle and still charge. No big deal right.....well yes and no I am beginning to think that maybe one of the diodes is defective and that I might have a small current drain through the alternator. Does anyone know if a diode failure is compatible with the general history I have described? Why am I thinking along these lines? I had to return to the UK for two weeks, so when I left the boat last week I checked the "Masse" leak indicator that came up with a leak on the -ve side. Unfortunately I had to catch my plane so I only turned off the master red handles for the batteries. Thinking that the batteries would be isolated. Now back in the UK, unable to check the boat I am worrying. If I am correct, the red handles do not isolate the chargers or the 24v alternator from the battery bank. Thus if there is a diode failure on the 24v alternator the batteries could be leaking despite the red handles being turned off. This could be bad for my anodes and prop for example not to mention the battery bank. Does anyone know if the red handles isolate the 24v Alternator or not. I can not remember 100% but I believe not as when I was working on the engine one time I turned off the handles only to discover the cables to all be still live. To summarise what my questions are: 1. Is the excitation history, i.e. reving to 1500 etc on the 24v alternator compatible with partial diode failure? 2. Do the red handles shut off everything? 3. Could a -ve leak as detected by the masse be compatible with diode failure? Nick Amelia (amel 54 hull 019)
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Re: Capacitors for 160 AC Dessalator
rossirossix4
For the record the electric motor for our pump (2004 SM #429) is a Leroy Somer LS100L P T No 509059 P J004 2.20kW 0.94COS 15.00A
Bob
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Re: Alternator and Masse leak detector
Hi Nick,
Have you checked the alternator belt tension? If the belts aren't tight enough they could slip at low revs and therefore the alt won't charge. It could also be a blown rectifier in the alternator...you need an auto electrician to check that. The red handles only disconnect the batteries from the users on the boat. The alternator output is wired directly to the batteries. If you have a rectifier failure in the alternator it is very unlikely that would lead to the Masse -ve light being activated. Diodes generally fail open circuit not short circuit. The -ve masse light indicates that you have a connection somewhere between house bank -ve and the bonding system (ground). The most likely cause of that is something that is 24VDC powered and also has metal parts in touch with saltwater. The macerator pumps in the heads are the usual culprit, but beware of AC devices such as laptop chargers which may internally have -ve connected to ground and that will feed back through the system if you have the original Calpeda A/C pump...that is where the AC ground is connected to the bonding system. In summary i don't think your alternator issues are associated with your -ve masse issue. Good luck Cheers Alan Elyse SM437, the Blue Lagoon, Fiji
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Alternator and Masse leak detector
kwzy6vgkpvtfohjddjsrotobzwf2pjeafjwalhur@...
Hello fellow Amelians, I have had a great passage to the Azores from Antigua (14.5 days). Some months ago I asked the forum about exciting the 24v alternator and was advised by Bill to check the relay and excitation circuit which I did. However I still have the same problem that the alternator needs 1500 rpm to "kick in". Once kicked in I can throttle back idle and still charge. No big deal right.....well yes and no I am beginning to think that maybe one of the diodes is defective and that I might have a small current drain through the alternator. Does anyone know if a diode failure is compatible with the general history I have described? Why am I thinking along these lines? I had to return to the UK for two weeks, so when I left the boat last week I checked the "Masse" leak indicator that came up with a leak on the -ve side. Unfortunately I had to catch my plane so I only turned off the master red handles for the batteries. Thinking that the batteries would be isolated. Now back in the UK, unable to check the boat I am worrying. If I am correct, the red handles do not isolate the chargers or the 24v alternator from the battery bank. Thus if there is a diode failure on the 24v alternator the batteries could be leaking despite the red handles being turned off. This could be bad for my anodes and prop for example not to mention the battery bank. Does anyone know if the red handles isolate the 24v Alternator or not. I can not remember 100% but I believe not as when I was working on the engine one time I turned off the handles only to discover the cables to all be still live. To summarise what my questions are: 1. Is the excitation history, i.e. reving to 1500 etc on the 24v alternator compatible with partial diode failure? 2. Do the red handles shut off everything? 3. Could a -ve leak as detected by the masse be compatible with diode failure? Nick Amelia (amel 54 hull 019)
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Capacitors for 160 AC Dessalator
Mohammad Shirloo
Hi
Gary;
I do
not believe that the reason for the two capacitors is to achieve a different
capacitance level by wiring in series or parallel. I believe they serve
different functions. One is a start capacitor which provides the initial large
instantaneous current required to start the motor and the other is a run
capacitor which dictates the direction of rotation.
If any
one goes out, the motor will not function correctly. The capacitors on our HP
pump are connected to a black box controller by Lafert. My information comes
directly from the main technical support person at Dessalator Martin Dee Jong.
He is extremely knowledgeable with Dessalator products and am sure can help you
further if you need it. His number
is +33
607346511. He is typically in France and is very good at responding to
calls.
Respectfully;
Mohammad and Aty
B&B Kokomo
Amel 54 #099 From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of amelliahona Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2018 9:39 PM To: amelyachtowners@... Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Capacitors for 160 AC Dessalator Mohammad & Aty: I don't know if we have the same motor for the HP Pump on the 160 l/hr
Dessalator pump but I have noted your two different capacitors as opposed to the
two 30 uf capacitors on mine. Two 30 uf capacitors wired in PARALLEL yield
a total capacitance of 60 uf.
A 70 uf and a 180 uf capacitor wired in SERIES yields a capacitance of 50.4
uf, whereas if they were wired in PARALLEL that would yield a capacitance of 250
uf. I am guessing yours are wired in series.
I am wondering if perhaps the manufacturer changed how these are wired
(economics of capacitors supply or they were changed as a repair along the way
or perhaps some more obscure reason??). The run capacitor sizing is a
matter of trial and error in most cases to yield the greatest efficiency of the
motor (i.e. the lowest running temperature). If you have nothing better to
do, I would be interested if you could verify how yours are wired.
All the best,
Gary S. Silver
s/v Liahona
Amel SM 2000 #335
Puerto Rico
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Capacitors for 160 AC Dessalator
amelliahona <no_reply@...>
Mohammad & Aty:
I don't know if we have the same motor for the HP Pump on the 160 l/hr Dessalator pump but I have noted your two different capacitors as opposed to the two 30 uf capacitors on mine. Two 30 uf capacitors wired in PARALLEL yield a total capacitance of 60 uf. A 70 uf and a 180 uf capacitor wired in SERIES yields a capacitance of 50.4 uf, whereas if they were wired in PARALLEL that would yield a capacitance of 250 uf. I am guessing yours are wired in series. I am wondering if perhaps the manufacturer changed how these are wired (economics of capacitors supply or they were changed as a repair along the way or perhaps some more obscure reason??). The run capacitor sizing is a matter of trial and error in most cases to yield the greatest efficiency of the motor (i.e. the lowest running temperature). If you have nothing better to do, I would be interested if you could verify how yours are wired. All the best, Gary S. Silver s/v Liahona Amel SM 2000 #335 Puerto Rico
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Re: Capacitors for 160 AC Dessalator
rossirossix4
Thanks Gary! Great source for the part. After posting I had done a bit of examination to see that the stud was just for mounting. This may explain why our Dessalator seems to still be working OK. I don't have an IR gun but it is high on my list! If we can, we will make the temp measurements.
Bob and Suzanne, SM429 KAIMI
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Re: Older Maramu steering system pics
Steve Leeds
Are you just servicing the steering rack or replacing the cables?
Steve Yacht MACCABEE 1985 Sharki 121
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Old B&G electronics for sale
Paul Cooper <paul.cooper74@...>
Thanks for your reply, Paul, and sorry for my delay in responding but I have been travelling. Just one question. I heard that the Raymarine instruments and the B & G instruments need different diameter holes. Did you need to install a board of some kind to mount the new instruments at the helm?
On Sunday, June 10, 2018, 11:57:39 AM MDT, osterberg.paul.l@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:
Paul The depth and speed transducer was installed by the yard, but I have done it before with a high quality hole saw it should be no problem. The mast was down so easy to pull out the old unit and at the same time pull a mono filament line all the way to pull the new cable. we then pulled all the three transducer cables to the instruments above the pentry space, but if I did it again I would probably buy an ITC5 box and connect all transducers at the base of the mast and only pull a NMEA backbone cable to the instruments, one cable instead of three. The it was very easy install and connect the instruments. >>The new electronics for the Autopilot needs the new rudder indicator transducer, I kept the old one for the old system and installed the new one it was a little bit tricky, I can send you a picture if you want se how I did it. Else it was rather easy installation after ripping out and rearrange most cables in the space were the rotary drive is. >>I had problem to find space for both the old and the new electronics for the autopilot. the EV1 unit we placed in the cupboard beside the starboard sofa. The cost for the Instrument with thre displays was ca 1300 USD at Annapolis boat show last Oktober. we bought from THE GPS store and we did not need to pay any tax. We the added three more instruments. close hauled, and two I 70 displays one in the cockpit for navigation data to be able to utilize the full screen for charts on the chart plotter and one i 70 display at the nav table. the instruments are just north of 400 each, the close hauled we found a good price at Defender.com. the full cost including the new AP electronics was ca 5000$ PAUL on sykerpa.com SM#259
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Capacitors for 160 AC Dessalator
Mohammad Shirloo
Hello
Bob;
We
have the 150 l/h dessalator. The HP pump motor is the LAFERT AMME 100L BA4 50HZ
230V 3.0HP 220-240V.
The
two capacitors are:
If you
have the same motor, this information may be of use. Of course the brand of the
capacitor would be irrelevant. One important item to keep in mind, is the
resistor that connects the two poles of the capacitor, I believe for
discharge after power down. When we changed ours, we unsoldered the resistor
from the existing capacitor and re-soldered to the new.
Hope
this helps. Let me know if you need any additional information. We are not on
board but have detailed pictures to reference.
Respectfully;
Mohammad and Aty
B&B Kokomo
Amel 54 #099 From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2018 11:36 PM To: amelyachtowners@... Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Capacitors for 160 AC Dessalator
Does anyone have a part number or source for the 2 large black capacitors on the high pressure pump for the Dessalator 160? They both have a stud for a nut on one end to fasten (and provide electrical contact) to the pump bracket. Ours still work but are falling apart physically-- I've got them held together with cable ties and need to replace them at some point. We've searched the site, but couldn't really find the answer. Bob and Suzanne, KAIMI SM 429 Cagliari, Sardenga
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Re: 2001 Amel SM (Norfolk) HIN 1045353
This is going back a bit but I've been looking at all of the old posts trying to gather information on the SM's to help with my search and help me narrow down what I actually want. From what I've been able to tell Bill, the Amel 12 Letter serial number system for the Super Maramu's works like this:
First three letters are the company (AML) Letters 4&5 are the Model (SM for Super Maramu) Letters 6,7 & 8 are the Hull Number (387 in your case) Letter 9 is the Month as you say (where A=January, B=February.... L=December) Letter 10 is the last digit of the year it was built (in your case 2002) and then the last two letters (are the model year - in your case 2003) I've looked at dozens of SM's and they all fit that pattern excepting two very early ones (a 1992 and a 1990 Annie) where the patterns make no sense at all (and aren't 12 digits) which make me think that there might be a transcription error like the HIN above in this post which doesn't make sense either as you suggest. Those boats are early enough that it is possible they didn't use this scheme (I don't have an earlier data point that would suggest they didn't) but in 2001, the scheme you pointed out was definitely in effect. I've also noticed that the point the model year jumps ahead of the build year is somewhere between April and September (with September being the most prevalent but a few examples of July/April thrown in to confuse things). Anyway, the more I dig, the more I discover that they are all great boats (with a few notorious examples) and it's just a bit of trivia that maybe Olivier can explain to us. Brent Cameron Future Super Maramu Owner
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Barnacle Buster
Patrick McAneny
Mark, Yes after four years of keeping my eye on the temp gauge and keeping the rpms in a lower range so not drive up the temp , its resolved. It came down to a small rubber seal that I did not know existed .I am very happy to have this resolved and now be able to run at full throttle if need be.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Thanks,
Pat SM#123
-----Original Message----- From: 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] To: amelyachtowners Sent: Sat, Jun 16, 2018 9:53 pm Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Barnacle Buster Pat,
Good for you.
Looks like you finally have the overheat issue resolved.
From: amelyachtowners@...
[mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2018 7:46 PM To: amelyachtowners@... Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Barnacle Buster Bill,
I decided not to flush it ,other than with water. For one thing its impossible
to get to the engine block drain, without removing things that have not been
moved in 24 years, better to leave sleeping dogs lie. That sleeve I emailed you
about on the heat exchanger plays an important role , it forces the water
(antifreeze) to go through the first two openings in the tube and then out the
other end which insures the heat transfer . Not having a sleeve allowed some of
my water to bypass the H/E thus the overheating. We just came in from running
the snot out the boat , like 2800 rpm for twenty minute and it never went above
190 ,problem solved. So if you have a Volvo TMD22 and have persistent overheating
, check to see if you have this small rubber sleeve that slides over the H/E
tube , mine had fallen apart over time. Also I bought parts that were $288 for
a Volvo here (end caps), for $48 through Parts4Engines in the UK , but
for a Perkins M80T, so buy Perkins not Volvo parts,tip of the day!
Pat
SM#123
-----Original Message-----
From: greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...> Sent: Sat, Jun 16, 2018 2:39 pm Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Barnacle Buster Pat,
Here is a link to the BB Material
Safety Data Sheet.
It does have more in it than just
the phos acid listed. I expect corrosion inhibitors, and
surfactants. But it does work a treat!
Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Freezer seal
Bill,
Thanks!
With best regards,
Mark
Skipper Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff www.creampuff.us
From: amelyachtowners@...
[mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2018 10:08 PM To: amelyachtowners@... Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Freezer seal
Mark,
I doubled the seals, running two in parallel everywhere I had room. Does that help? I don't know for sure, but it falls under the category of "It can't hurt!"
If you do that you will need 3X 17 feet to do both boxes. If you run just one seal around the box, 2X 17 feet should work.
Bill Kinney SM160, Harmonie Annapolis, MD, USA
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Re: Capacitors for 160 AC Dessalator
amelliahona <no_reply@...>
Bob & Suzzane:
These capacitors should be 30 uf (micro farad) 450 volt AC capacitors with a stud at the top for mounting and wiring via pigtails. You can purchase them here: http://store.eurtonelectric.com/capacitorcbb60-d111uf450vac-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1.aspx Very reasonable price. Capacitors are usually specified at twice the operating voltage as the device, hence the 450 VAC rating. The stud is for mounting only and is not part of the electrical connection. Only the pig-tail wiring is part of the electrical connection. As capacitors fail the motor doesn't run as efficiently and runs at a higher temperature. Bill Rouse told me his high pressure pump would run at 235 def F under load while mine ran at 197 deg F right after I replaced the capacitors. I wish I would have measured the temp with the IR thermometer prior to changing the capacitors to see what effect it had. Perhaps you could do that for the group and measure the operating temp of the motor (just point your IR thermometer at the cooling fin area of the motor) before and after you change your capacitors. All the best, Gary S. Silver s/v Liahona Amel SM 2000 #335
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Capacitors for 160 AC Dessalator
rossirossix4
Does anyone have a part number or source for the 2 large black capacitors on the high pressure pump for the Dessalator 160? They both have a stud for a nut on one end to fasten (and provide electrical contact) to the pump bracket. Ours still work but are falling apart physically-- I've got them held together with cable ties and need to replace them at some point. We've searched the site, but couldn't really find the answer. Bob and Suzanne, KAIMI SM 429 Cagliari, Sardenga
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Re: Freezer seal
greatketch@...
Mark,
I doubled the seals, running two in parallel everywhere I had room. Does that help? I don't know for sure, but it falls under the category of "It can't hurt!" If you do that you will need 3X 17 feet to do both boxes. If you run just one seal around the box, 2X 17 feet should work. Bill Kinney SM160, Harmonie Annapolis, MD, USA
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Barnacle Buster
Pat,
Good for you. Looks like you finally have the overheat issue resolved.
With best regards,
Mark
Skipper Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff www.creampuff.us
From: amelyachtowners@...
[mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2018 7:46 PM To: amelyachtowners@... Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Barnacle Buster
Bill, I decided not to flush it ,other than with water. For one thing its impossible to get to the engine block drain, without removing things that have not been moved in 24 years, better to leave sleeping dogs lie. That sleeve I emailed you about on the heat exchanger plays an important role , it forces the water (antifreeze) to go through the first two openings in the tube and then out the other end which insures the heat transfer . Not having a sleeve allowed some of my water to bypass the H/E thus the overheating. We just came in from running the snot out the boat , like 2800 rpm for twenty minute and it never went above 190 ,problem solved. So if you have a Volvo TMD22 and have persistent overheating , check to see if you have this small rubber sleeve that slides over the H/E tube , mine had fallen apart over time. Also I bought parts that were $288 for a Volvo here (end caps), for $48 through Parts4Engines in the UK , but for a Perkins M80T, so buy Perkins not Volvo parts,tip of the day!
Pat SM#123 -----Original Message-----
Pat,
Here is a link to the BB Material Safety Data Sheet.
It does have more in it than just the phos acid listed. I expect corrosion inhibitors, and surfactants. But it does work a treat!
Bill Kinney SM160, Harmonie Annapolis, MD
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Freezer seal
Bill K
You suggested this product to re-seal the freezers. It comes in 17 feet rolls. Was this enough to do both units under the seats?
When we re-did our under-seat fridge gaskets, we used a product from MD Building, #1025, D-profile, 5/16 x 23/64. We got it from Amazon.
It is important to note that with gaskets like this, there is a maximum specified compression that needs to be adhered to for best sealing and longest life. If the gasket is over-compressed it might seem to seal better at first, but it quickly takes on a permanent "set" and is then no longer flexible enough to make a good seal. For most hollow rubber gaskets, such as this this, maximum compression is 25% of the uncompressed thickness. I have installed shims that take the weight of the lid so the gaskets do not get squeezed too much.
Bill Kinney SM#160, Harmonie Charlotte Amalie, StT, USVI
With best regards,
Mark
Skipper Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275 www.creampuff.us
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