Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Old B&G electronics for sale

Paul Osterberg
 

Paul, no the Raymarine instruments needs bigger holes so I just screw a thin piece of plywood behind the old holes and use that to guide the hole saw to make bigger holes. No problem, the same technique can be used for instruments with smaller holes, just need a thin ply or similar behind the old holes the make the hole at the right size. Good material to have aboard is plastic cutting boards very low cost and versatile for such purpose and many others. 
Paul on SY Kerpa SM 259


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Alternator and Masse leak detector

Alan Leslie
 

Hi Nick,

We have a NEXT STEP-2 reg ...there is a file in the Files section showing how I did it

The reg in the Leece  Neville alt is not designed to charge deep cycle batteries.
Keeping the voltage always at 28.8V will eventually kill your AGM batteries. They need a bulk, absorption, float regimen if they are to be cared for properly.

We have 
600W solar panels and  a Victron MPPT controller
Leece Neville 175A engine alt with Next Step-2 reg
Victron Skyalla 100A charger
Promariner 30A charger

and they are all set to the same absorption and float voltages.


Diodes fail open, I don't think that can be the cause of your problem.

Somewhere on some device that has both 24VDC feed AND a connection to the bonding system, there is a connection between -ve and the bonding connection...and it may not be a metal to metal contact , frequently it is through the sea water. 

Good Luck
Alan
Elyse SM437  Yasawa-i-rara


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Alternator and Masse leak detector

Patrick McAneny
 

Danny, OK , good to know, its always been like that and I guess with other things to worry about ,I never gave it much thought.
Thanks,
Pat


-----Original Message-----
From: Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Mon, Jun 18, 2018 5:45 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Alternator and Masse leak detector

 
Hi Pat. No it is not normal. I have had the same on Ocean pearl and through my rather practical life on other motors in vehicles of diverse types. The excitation circuit is faulty. This circuit feeds voltage to the alternator from the battery. When it is not functioning, as you have found, the alternator self excites if you rev it. On my tmd22 the excitation was activated by tuning the key on and was routed through a voltmeter. (The voltmeter was incedental, it just happend to be in that ciruit and was a handy way to see it was functional) You may have a different circuit but it will be activated by turning the key on. My 24 volt alternator is excited by a feed from the house batteries activated by a solenoid activated by a feed through the start key from the 12 volt starting battery.
Search from your key looking for a separated wire or a poor connection.
Regards
Danny
SM 299. Ocean Pearl
On 19 June 2018 at 09:27 "Patr ick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
Since several boats are the same , in that they need to rev up to charge, maybe someone could chime in and say if this normal or not.
Pat
SM#123


-----Original Message-----
From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Mon, Jun 18, 2018 4:20 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Alternator and Masse leak detector

 
Was the same on NIKIMAT SM2K #289 (and on a 1976 Aston Martin I owned).

Sincerely, Alexandre

--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 6/18/18, John Clark john.biohead@... [amelyachtowners] < amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Alternator and Masse leak detector
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Monday, June 18, 2018, 11:30 AM


 









My SM#37,  with Volvo TMD22 requires a
rev for tach and 12v alternator to fire off.&# 160; Not sure if
it is right but it has been stable for last year.
John Clark SV Annie 
SM37enroute to St. Lucia.
On Mon, Jun
18, 2018, 9:46 AM greatketch@...
[amelyachtowners] < amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:















 










Nick,
There
are no "partial failures" of diodes.  As solid
state devices they either work--or not.  When they fail
they fail "open" and block current flow in both
directions.
It
is possible, I guess, you could have a short circuit inside
the alternator somewhere, but the chances of it working at
all would then be pretty close to zero.
Bill
KinneySM160,
HarmonieAnnapolis,
MD, USA < br>
---In amelyachtowners@...,
wrote
:

Hello
fellow Amelians,
I have had a great passage
to the Azores from Antigua (14.5
days). 
Some months ago I asked
 the forum about exciting the 24v alternator and was
advised by Bill to check the relay and excitation circuit
 which I did. However I still have the same problem that
the alternator needs 1500 rpm to "kick in". Once
kicked in I can throttle back idle and still
charge.
No big deal right.....well
yes and no I am beginning to think that maybe one of the
diodes is defective and that I might have a small current
drain through the alternator. Does anyone know if a diode
failure is compatible with the general history I have
described?
Why am I thinking along
these lines? I had to return to the UK for two weeks, so
when I left the boat last week I  checked the
"Masse" leak indicator that came up with a leak on
the -ve side. Unfortunately I had to catch my plane so I
only turned off the master red handles for the batteries.
Thinking that the batteries would be
isolated.
Now back in the UK, unable
to check the boat I am worrying. If I am correct, the red
handles do not isolate the chargers or the 24v alternator
from the battery bank. Thus if there is a diode failure on
the 24v alternator the batteries could be leaking despite
the red handles being turned off. This could be bad for my
anodes and prop for example not to mention the battery bank.
Does anyone know if the red handles isolate the 24v
Alternator or not. I can not remember 100% but I believe not
as when I was working on the engine one time I turned off
the handles only to discover the cabl es to all be still
live. 
To summarise what my
questions are:1. Is the excitation
history, i.e. reving to 1500 etc on the 24v alternator
compatible with partial diode failure?2.
Do the red handles shut off
everything? 3. Could a -ve leak as
detected by the masse be compatible with diode
failure?
NickAmelia
(amel 54 hull 019)







 
 

 

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Shore Side Circuit Breaker Tripping When Plugging in Boat

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi,

I had the same occur when my hot water cylinder was turned on. The element was faulty and shorted out so the shore power breaker flipped..

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

On 19 June 2018 at 10:05 "mfmcgovern@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Bill,


One fairly simple thing to check is the auto transfer switch that selects ether the generator or shore power for AC Power.  Mine failed soon after converting our shore power cable to be able to plug into a US 50 Amp shore power outlet.  The switch on my SM was located in the engine room in a plastic box labelled "QUAI/GE" mounted on a wooden board outboard/above of the generator.  My SM is a 2004 model so I don't know if yours is configured the same as mine.

Mark Erdos from Cream Puff had the same switch fail on him as well:  http://www.creampuff.us/2015/07/the-night-the-lights-went-out-in-georgia/   I did not replace the failed switch with another autotransfer switch. I replaced it with a more robust manual "break-before-make" switch:  https://www.bluesea.com/products/8357/AC_Rotary_Switch_Panel_65_Ampere_2_positions_%2B_OFF_2_Pole

Note that this setup does require that I actually go into the engine room to change the switch position from Shore Power to Generator.  But as Mark Erdos pointed out to me, you really should be going into the engine room to check the oil in the generator anyway before starting it up!  

I hope this helps.  Good luck finding your issue.

Mark McGovern
SM 440 Cara
Deale, MD USA  
 

 


 


 


Re: Shore Side Circuit Breaker Tripping When Plugging in Boat

mfmcgovern@...
 

Bill,

One fairly simple thing to check is the auto transfer switch that selects ether the generator or shore power for AC Power.  Mine failed soon after converting our shore power cable to be able to plug into a US 50 Amp shore power outlet.  The switch on my SM was located in the engine room in a plastic box labelled "QUAI/GE" mounted on a wooden board outboard/above of the generator.  My SM is a 2004 model so I don't know if yours is configured the same as mine.

Mark Erdos from Cream Puff had the same switch fail on him as well:  http://www.creampuff.us/2015/07/the-night-the-lights-went-out-in-georgia/   I did not replace the failed switch with another autotransfer switch. I replaced it with a more robust manual "break-before-make" switch:  https://www.bluesea.com/products/8357/AC_Rotary_Switch_Panel_65_Ampere_2_positions_%2B_OFF_2_Pole

Note that this setup does require that I actually go into the engine room to change the switch position from Shore Power to Generator.  But as Mark Erdos pointed out to me, you really should be going into the engine room to check the oil in the generator anyway before starting it up!  

I hope this helps.  Good luck finding your issue.

Mark McGovern
SM 440 Cara
Deale, MD USA  
 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] How to flush Volvo D3-110i-C

Mark Erdos
 

Paul,

 

Sorry, I misread your post. You did say raw-water side.

 

The best way to clean the raw water side is to remove the heat exchanger and after cooler from the engine. Either take them to a radiator shop or put them in a bucket with a phosphoric acid solution.

 

I think I would replace “crunchy” hoses. Else, the inside of hoses can be cleaned with a pressure washer.

 

Also check the exhaust elbow for any holes or blockage. Any side of salt on the outside of the elbow indicates a pin size hole and needs to be addressed.

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2018 1:07 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] How to flush Volvo D3-110i-C

 

 

Hi,

 

I'm looking for some advice on how to flush the raw water system on my Volvo D3-110i-C. I know it has debris/salt etc. build up because I can feel it crunching in the rubber hose when I squeeze it, and also the engine which normally runs a 78°C at 1250rpm is now running at 83°C or higher.

 

Any advice would be much appreciated.

 

Cheers,

Paul

Ya Fohi - Amrl 54 #98

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] How to flush Volvo D3-110i-C

 

Don't forget to check any in-line devices like a transmission oil cooler (heat exchanger). Many times I have found this to be the problem. 

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

On Mon, Jun 18, 2018, 16:14 sharongbrown@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi,

I'm looking for some advice on how to flush the raw water system on my Volvo D3-110i-C. I know it has debris/salt etc. build up because I can feel it crunching in the rubber hose when I squeeze it, and also the engine which normally runs a 78°C at 1250rpm is now running at 83°C or higher.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Cheers,
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amrl 54 #98



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] How to flush Volvo D3-110i-C

Mohammad Shirloo
 

Hi Paul;
 
In order to get Kokomo ready for the winter, we flush out all of her raw water systems with fresh water for about 15 minutes. We accomplish this by turning off the main thru hull valve, removing the raw water strainer cover and supplying the systems with a fresh water hose. We turn on each system one by one, from the anchor wash, refrigerators, A/C, generator and finally the main engine. We are able to keep up with the water demand on all systems with a single 3/4" hose, except the main engine which we need two hoses for. We leave the raw water main valve closed for the winter.
 
This may not help in your situation if you have existing buildup, but I would assume that since recirculation of an agent like barnacle buster or saltaway may prove challenging, you would have to leave some kind of product within the system for some time to dislodge the buildup and then flush out. Off course some the dislodged items may create issues else where. Have you inspected your heat exchanger on the Volvo for buildup? This may explain some of your temperature rise.
 
Respectfully;
Mohammad Shirloo
323-633-2222 Cell
310-644-0908 Fax
 



From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2018 10:07 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] How to flush Volvo D3-110i-C

 

Hi,

I'm looking for some advice on how to flush the raw water system on my Volvo D3-110i-C. I know it has debris/salt etc. build up because I can feel it crunching in the rubber hose when I squeeze it, and also the engine which normally runs a 78°C at 1250rpm is now running at 83°C or higher.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Cheers,
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amrl 54 #98



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Alternator and Masse leak detector

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Pat. No it is not normal. I have had the same on Ocean pearl and through my rather practical life on other motors in vehicles of diverse types. The excitation circuit is faulty. This circuit feeds voltage to the alternator from the battery. When it is not functioning, as you have found, the alternator self excites if you rev it. On my tmd22 the excitation was activated by tuning the key on and was routed through a voltmeter. (The voltmeter was incedental, it just happend to be in that ciruit and was a handy way to see it was functional) You may have a different circuit but it will be activated by turning the key on. My 24 volt alternator is excited by a feed from the house batteries activated by a solenoid activated by a feed through the start key from the 12 volt starting battery.

Search from your key looking for a separated wire or a poor connection.

Regards

Danny

SM 299. Ocean Pearl

On 19 June 2018 at 09:27 "Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Since several boats are the same , in that they need to rev up to charge, maybe someone could chime in and say if this normal or not.

Pat
SM#123


-----Original Message-----
From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Mon, Jun 18, 2018 4:20 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Alternator and Masse leak detector

 
Was the same on NIKIMAT SM2K #289 (and on a 1976 Aston Martin I owned).

Sincerely, Alexandre

--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 6/18/18, John Clark john.biohead@... [amelyachtowners] < amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Alternator and Masse leak detector
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Monday, June 18, 2018, 11:30 AM


 









My SM#37,  with Volvo TMD22 requires a
rev for tach and 12v alternator to fire off.  Not sure if
it is right but it has been stable for last year.
John Clark SV Annie 
SM37enroute to St. Lucia.
On Mon, Jun
18, 2018, 9:46 AM greatketch@...
[amelyachtowners] < amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:















 










Nick,
There
are no "partial failures" of diodes.  As solid
state devices they either work--or not.  When they fail
they fail "open" and block current flow in both
directions.
It
is possible, I guess, you could have a short circuit inside
the alternator somewhere, but the chances of it working at
all would then be pretty close to zero.
Bill
KinneySM160,
HarmonieAnnapolis,
MD, USA

---In amelyachtowners@...,
<kwzy6vgkpvtfohjddjsrotobzwf2pjeafjwalhur@...> wrote
:

Hello
fellow Amelians,
I have had a great passage
to the Azores from Antigua (14.5
days). 
Some months ago I asked
 the forum about exciting the 24v alternator and was
advised by Bill to check the relay and excitation circuit
 which I did. However I still have the same problem that
the alternator needs 1500 rpm to "kick in". Once
kicked in I can throttle back idle and still
charge.
No big deal right.....well
yes and no I am beginning to think that maybe one of the
diodes is defective and that I might have a small current
drain through the alternator. Does anyone know if a diode
failure is compatible with the general history I have
described?
Why am I thinking along
these lines? I had to return to the UK for two weeks, so
when I left the boat last week I  checked the
"Masse" leak indicator that came up with a leak on
the -ve side. Unfortunately I had to catch my plane so I
only turned off the master red handles for the batteries.
Thinking that the batteries would be
isolated.
Now back in the UK, unable
to check the boat I am worrying. If I am correct, the red
handles do not isolate the chargers or the 24v alternator
from the battery bank. Thus if there is a diode failure on
the 24v alternator the batteries could be leaking despite
the red handles being turned off. This could be bad for my
anodes and prop for example not to mention the battery bank.
Does anyone know if the red handles isolate the 24v
Alternator or not. I can not remember 100% but I believe not
as when I was working on the engine one time I turned off
the handles only to discover the cables to all be still
live. 
To summarise what my
questions are:1. Is the excitation
history, i.e. reving to 1500 etc on the 24v alternator
compatible with partial diode failure?2.
Do the red handles shut off
everything? 3. Could a -ve leak as
detected by the masse be compatible with diode
failure?
NickAmelia
(amel 54 hull 019)







 

 


 


 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] How to flush Volvo D3-110i-C

Mark Erdos
 

Paul,

 

I would suggest using a bucket and a pump to circulate a flushing agent through the engine for a couple of hours. You can use any automotive radiator flushing agent to clean the coolant side of the engine. You will need to drain all the coolant and remove the impeller. Make a loop from the water intake to the water exit (at the exhaust elbow) to circulate the fluids. When done, add new coolant and replace the impeller.

 

If your engine is running hot or hotter than normal it is probably not the coolant side that needs help. You will most likely find your heat exchanger or after cooler (if you have a turbo) is starting to clog on the seawater side. This is the most common cause of a marine engine running hot.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2018 1:07 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] How to flush Volvo D3-110i-C

 

 

Hi,

 

I'm looking for some advice on how to flush the raw water system on my Volvo D3-110i-C. I know it has debris/salt etc. build up because I can feel it crunching in the rubber hose when I squeeze it, and also the engine which normally runs a 78°C at 1250rpm is now running at 83°C or higher.

 

Any advice would be much appreciated.

 

Cheers,

Paul

Ya Fohi - Amrl 54 #98

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Alternator and Masse leak detector

ngtnewington Newington
 

Well on Amelia the Alternator did not need revving up to kick in until a few months ago. So in my opinion it is not correct. 

You can look at the pulley ratio, compare the pulley circumferences of the pulley on the engine v the smaller alt pulley. if it is 2:1 then 900 rpm engine speed equates to 1800 rpm on the alt. Then check the alt specs for output at that rpm.

Nick

On 18 Jun 2018, at 22:27, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Since several boats are the same , in that they need to rev up to charge, maybe someone could chime in and say if this normal or not.

Pat
SM#123


-----Original Message-----
From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Mon, Jun 18, 2018 4:20 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Alternator and Masse leak detector

 
Was the same on NIKIMAT SM2K #289 (and on a 1976 Aston Martin I owned).

Sincerely, Alexandre

--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 6/18/18, John Clark john.biohead@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Alternator and Masse leak detector
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Monday, June 18, 2018, 11:30 AM


 









My SM#37,  with Volvo TMD22 requires a
rev for tach and 12v alternator to fire off.  Not sure if
it is right but it has been stable for last year.
John Clark SV Annie 
SM37enroute to St. Lucia.
On Mon, Jun
18, 2018, 9:46 AM greatketch@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:















 










Nick,
There
are no "partial failures" of diodes.  As solid
state devices they either work--or not.  When they fail
they fail "open" and block current flow in both
directions.
It
is possible, I guess, you could have a short circuit inside
the alternator somewhere, but the chances of it working at
all would then be pretty close to zero.
Bill
KinneySM160,
HarmonieAnnapolis,
MD, USA

---In amelyachtowners@...,
wrote
:

Hello
fellow Amelians,
I have had a great passage
to the Azores from Antigua (14.5
days). 
Some months ago I asked
 the forum about exciting the 24v alternator and was
advised by Bill to check the relay and excitation circuit
 which I did. However I still have the same problem that
the alternator needs 1500 rpm to "kick in". Once
kicked in I can throttle back idle and still
charge.
No big deal right.....well
yes and no I am beginning to think that maybe one of the
diodes is defective and that I might have a small current
drain through the alternator. Does anyone know if a diode
failure is compatible with the general history I have
described?
Why am I thinking along
these lines? I had to return to the UK for two weeks, so
when I left the boat last week I  checked the
"Masse" leak indicator that came up with a leak on
the -ve side. Unfortunately I had to catch my plane so I
only turned off the master red handles for the batteries.
Thinking that the batteries would be
isolated.
Now back in the UK, unable
to check the boat I am worrying. If I am correct, the red
handles do not isolate the chargers or the 24v alternator
from the battery bank. Thus if there is a diode failure on
the 24v alternator the batteries could be leaking despite
the red handles being turned off. This could be bad for my
anodes and prop for example not to mention the battery bank.
Does anyone know if the red handles isolate the 24v
Alternator or not. I can not remember 100% but I believe not
as when I was working on the engine one time I turned off
the handles only to discover the cables to all be still
live. 
To summarise what my
questions are:1. Is the excitation
history, i.e. reving to 1500 etc on the 24v alternator
compatible with partial diode failure?2.
Do the red handles shut off
everything? 3. Could a -ve leak as
detected by the masse be compatible with diode
failure?
NickAmelia
(amel 54 hull 019)










Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Alternator and Masse leak detector

ngtnewington Newington
 

HI Alan,

Thanks, all good info. When I get back to the boat next Saturday I will check it again. I am toying with the idea of buying a 3 stage regulator too. 

I have Lifeline AGM bank of batteries. I have noticed that the Alternator brings the bank up to 28.55v but then stays at that voltage rather than drop back to float slightly lower. According to Lifeline AGM website the batteries can tolerate 28.8v so that should be ok. On the recent transatlantic passage we motored for 18 hours straight at one point and obviously the batteries were full and kept being charged at 28.55v. I checked the bank by feeling them and listening. There was no boiling or even warmth. So I reckon the current internal regulator is OK nevertheless I am not 100% about a long motor, say of 24 or even 48 hours. My new bank was expensive! I want 8 years out of that bank! I have a very good charging system, new Mastervolt 30A and new Xantrex 70A inverter charger as well as twin Rutland 1200 wind generators and 530w of solar all set to AGM’s plus of course the 175A alternator. Our wind solar combo covers pretty much everything even 24 x 7 autopilot. The only regulator not set to AGM is the Leece_Neville. So I am toying with changing the regulator. What brand/model do you have?

As for my leak I am not convinced that a diode can not be faulty and stuck in the short position whilst still charging, or that the alternator can not leak to ground and still work. when I get back to the boat it will be simple to remove the negative cable from the Alt and then try the “Masse” tester. I also wonder if the bow thruster could be at fault, carbon build up from worn brushes could leak. Tracking these problems is always tricky but a process of elimination is the only way.

Last time I was in Fiji was 1992, is Musket Cove still a yachtie hang out? I loved the Great Astrolabe reef area and Nevandra, Malolo Lai Lai. Suva YC was rainy but had good G+T’s

Nick


On 18 Jun 2018, at 20:50, divanz620@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Hi Nick,


Another possibility (and I completely forgot about this until I was reminded by a friend) is the little red light at the bottom left of the 24VDC panel.
If your 24VDC alternator has the standard automotive type internal regulator then this lamp is what provides the excitation current.
If everything is working normally, when you turn the key on, this lamp should light. When you start the engine and the alternator is spinning, this lamp should go out.
Have someone watch this lamp when you turn the key on and then start the engine. If the lamp doesn't light at startup this could be your problem...blown lamp or bad connection somewhere.

BTW the reason I forgot about it is that our little red lamp is disconnected as we have an external 3 stage regulator connected to the 175A Leece Neville 24VDC alternator (the internal regulator is disconnected) in order to charge (and more importantly not overcharge) the house batteries in a proper manner.

Good Luck
Alan
Elyse SM437



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Alternator and Masse leak detector

Patrick McAneny
 

Since several boats are the same , in that they need to rev up to charge, maybe someone could chime in and say if this normal or not.
Pat
SM#123


-----Original Message-----
From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Mon, Jun 18, 2018 4:20 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Alternator and Masse leak detector

 
Was the same on NIKIMAT SM2K #289 (and on a 1976 Aston Martin I owned).

Sincerely, Alexandre

--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 6/18/18, John Clark john.biohead@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Alternator and Masse leak detector
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Monday, June 18, 2018, 11:30 AM


 









My SM#37,  with Volvo TMD22 requires a
rev for tach and 12v alternator to fire off.  Not sure if
it is right but it has been stable for last year.
John Clark SV Annie 
SM37enroute to St. Lucia.
On Mon, Jun
18, 2018, 9:46 AM greatketch@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:















 










Nick,
There
are no "partial failures" of diodes.  As solid
state devices they either work--or not.  When they fail
they fail "open" and block current flow in both
directions.
It
is possible, I guess, you could have a short circuit inside
the alternator somewhere, but the chances of it working at
all would then be pretty close to zero.
Bill
KinneySM160,
HarmonieAnnapolis,
MD, USA

---In amelyachtowners@...,
wrote
:

Hello
fellow Amelians,
I have had a great passage
to the Azores from Antigua (14.5
days). 
Some months ago I asked
 the forum about exciting the 24v alternator and was
advised by Bill to check the relay and excitation circuit
 which I did. However I still have the same problem that
the alternator needs 1500 rpm to "kick in". Once
kicked in I can throttle back idle and still
charge.
No big deal right.....well
yes and no I am beginning to think that maybe one of the
diodes is defective and that I might have a small current
drain through the alternator. Does anyone know if a diode
failure is compatible with the general history I have
described?
Why am I thinking along
these lines? I had to return to the UK for two weeks, so
when I left the boat last week I  checked the
"Masse" leak indicator that came up with a leak on
the -ve side. Unfortunately I had to catch my plane so I
only turned off the master red handles for the batteries.
Thinking that the batteries would be
isolated.
Now back in the UK, unable
to check the boat I am worrying. If I am correct, the red
handles do not isolate the chargers or the 24v alternator
from the battery bank. Thus if there is a diode failure on
the 24v alternator the batteries could be leaking despite
the red handles being turned off. This could be bad for my
anodes and prop for example not to mention the battery bank.
Does anyone know if the red handles isolate the 24v
Alternator or not. I can not remember 100% but I believe not
as when I was working on the engine one time I turned off
the handles only to discover the cables to all be still
live. 
To summarise what my
questions are:1. Is the excitation
history, i.e. reving to 1500 etc on the 24v alternator
compatible with partial diode failure?2.
Do the red handles shut off
everything? 3. Could a -ve leak as
detected by the masse be compatible with diode
failure?
NickAmelia
(amel 54 hull 019)








Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Alternator and Masse leak detector

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Was the same on NIKIMAT SM2K #289 (and on a 1976 Aston Martin I owned).

Sincerely, Alexandre



--------------------------------------------

On Mon, 6/18/18, John Clark john.biohead@gmail.com [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Alternator and Masse leak detector
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, June 18, 2018, 11:30 AM


 









My SM#37,  with Volvo TMD22 requires a
rev for tach and 12v alternator to fire off.  Not sure if
it is right but it has been stable for last year.
John Clark SV Annie 
SM37enroute to St. Lucia.
On Mon, Jun
18, 2018, 9:46 AM greatketch@yahoo.com
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
wrote:















 










Nick,
There
are no "partial failures" of diodes.  As solid
state devices they either work--or not.  When they fail
they fail "open" and block current flow in both
directions.
It
is possible, I guess, you could have a short circuit inside
the alternator somewhere, but the chances of it working at
all would then be pretty close to zero.
Bill
KinneySM160,
HarmonieAnnapolis,
MD, USA

---In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com,
<kwzy6vgkpvtfohjddjsrotobzwf2pjeafjwalhur@...> wrote
:

Hello
fellow Amelians,
I have had a great passage
to the Azores from Antigua (14.5
days). 
Some months ago I asked
 the forum about exciting the 24v alternator and was
advised by Bill to check the relay and excitation circuit
 which I did. However I still have the same problem that
the alternator needs 1500 rpm to "kick in". Once
kicked in I can throttle back idle and still
charge.
No big deal right.....well
yes and no I am beginning to think that maybe one of the
diodes is defective and that I might have a small current
drain through the alternator. Does anyone know if a diode
failure is compatible with the general history I have
described?
Why am I thinking along
these lines? I had to return to the UK for two weeks, so
when I left the boat last week I  checked the
"Masse" leak indicator that came up with a leak on
the -ve side. Unfortunately I had to catch my plane so I
only turned off the master red handles for the batteries.
Thinking that the batteries would be
isolated.
Now back in the UK, unable
to check the boat I am worrying. If I am correct, the red
handles do not isolate the chargers or the 24v alternator
from the battery bank. Thus if there is a diode failure on
the 24v alternator the batteries could be leaking despite
the red handles being turned off. This could be bad for my
anodes and prop for example not to mention the battery bank.
Does anyone know if the red handles isolate the 24v
Alternator or not. I can not remember 100% but I believe not
as when I was working on the engine one time I turned off
the handles only to discover the cables to all be still
live. 
To summarise what my
questions are:1. Is the excitation
history, i.e. reving to 1500 etc on the 24v alternator
compatible with partial diode failure?2.
Do the red handles shut off
everything? 3. Could a -ve leak as
detected by the masse be compatible with diode
failure?
NickAmelia
(amel 54 hull 019)


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Alternator and Masse leak detector

Alan Leslie
 

Hi Nick,

Another possibility (and I completely forgot about this until I was reminded by a friend) is the little red light at the bottom left of the 24VDC panel.
If your 24VDC alternator has the standard automotive type internal regulator then this lamp is what provides the excitation current.
If everything is working normally, when you turn the key on, this lamp should light. When you start the engine and the alternator is spinning, this lamp should go out.
Have someone watch this lamp when you turn the key on and then start the engine. If the lamp doesn't light at startup this could be your problem...blown lamp or bad connection somewhere.

BTW the reason I forgot about it is that our little red lamp is disconnected as we have an external 3 stage regulator connected to the 175A Leece Neville 24VDC alternator (the internal regulator is disconnected) in order to charge (and more importantly not overcharge) the house batteries in a proper manner.

Good Luck
Alan
Elyse SM437


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Alternator and Masse leak detector

Patrick McAneny
 

I also have to rev it up to get it generating on my Volvo TMD22a , not sure if that is normal or not .
Pat SM#123


-----Original Message-----
From: John Clark john.biohead@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Mon, Jun 18, 2018 12:54 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Alternator and Masse leak detector

 
My SM#37,  with Volvo TMD22 requires a rev for tach and 12v alternator to fire off.  Not sure if it is right but it has been stable for last year.

John Clark 
SV Annie  SM37
enroute to St. Lucia.

On Mon, Jun 18, 2018, 9:46 AM greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Nick,

There are no "partial failures" of diodes.  As solid state devices they either work--or not.  When they fail they fail "open" and block current flow in both directions.

It is possible, I guess, you could have a short circuit inside the alternator somewhere, but the chances of it working at all would then be pretty close to zero.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA


---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

Hello fellow Amelians,

I have had a great passage to the Azores from Antigua (14.5 days). 

Some months ago I asked  the forum about exciting the 24v alternator and was advised by Bill to check the relay and excitation circuit  which I did. However I still have the same problem that the alternator needs 1500 rpm to "kick in". Once kicked in I can throttle back idle and still charge.

No big deal right.....well yes and no I am beginning to think that maybe one of the diodes is defective and that I might have a small current drain through the alternator. Does anyone know if a diode failure is compatible with the general history I have described?

Why am I thinking along these lines? I had to return to the UK for two weeks, so when I left the boat last week I  checked the "Masse" leak indicator that came up with a leak on the -ve side. Unfortunately I had to catch my plane so I only turned off the master red handles for the batteries. Thinking that the batteries would be isolated.

Now back in the UK, unable to check the boat I am worrying. If I am correct, the red handles do not isolate the chargers or the 24v alternator from the battery bank. Thus if there is a diode failure on the 24v alternator the batteries could be leaking despite the red handles being turned off. This could be bad for my anodes and prop for example not to mention the battery bank. Does anyone know if the red handles isolate the 24v Alternator or not. I can not remember 100% but I believe not as when I was working on the engine one time I turned off the handles only to discover the cables to all be still live. 

To summarise what my questions are:
1. Is the excitation history, i.e. reving to 1500 etc on the 24v alternator compatible with partial diode failure?
2. Do the red handles shut off everything? 
3. Could a -ve leak as detected by the masse be compatible with diode failure?

Nick
Amelia (amel 54 hull 019)




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Capacitors for 160 AC Dessalator

Mohammad Shirloo
 

When we first got on board that is what we did. We dialed back the pressure to remain at 150l/hr or less. However, when we had to replace the black box controller on the HP pump, I had several in depth discussions with Martin at Dessalator to better understand the process and the systems. Martin stated that it is perfectly safe to run the HP pump on the high side of the green of the HP pressure gauge just shy of the redline. He said you could run the system in this configuration 24x7x365 without any issues or harm to the system.
 
So we have been doing this for the past 2 years. The output of the water maker will depend, to a large extent, on the water temperature. The higher the temperature the higher the output. Ours ranges between 145 to 175 l/hr. Martin mentioned that the rating of 150l/hr was placed on the system to make sure that it would produce that amount in the most adverse conditions.
 
Most of my information is from Martin and have not done much research on the matter. However, I have found Martin to be very knowledgeable.
 
Respectfully;
Mohammad Shirloo
323-633-2222 Cell
310-644-0908 Fax
 



From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2018 11:32 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Capacitors for 160 AC Dessalator

 

Gary & Mohammad,

The Dessalator D150, later named the D160 went through lots of changes, with the membranes being about the only part that remainded the about the same in all models. I said about the same because when Dessalator made the D150, each of the two 25x40 membranes was rated at 75 liters per hour at pressure. Filmtech changed manufacturing of this membrane, increasing output to 80 liters and Dessalator renamed the D150 to D160. 

BTW, some owners produce more than the rated numbers. You should not. Dial back the pressure knob so that output is correct for your membranes. Too much output and/or too much pressure will shorten membrane life. 


Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

On Sun, Jun 17, 2018, 23:39 amelliahona <no_reply@...> wrote:
 

Mohammad & Aty:  


I don't know if we have the same motor for the HP Pump on the 160 l/hr Dessalator pump but I have noted your two different capacitors as opposed to the two 30 uf capacitors on mine.  Two 30 uf capacitors wired in PARALLEL yield a total capacitance of 60 uf.  

A 70 uf and a 180 uf capacitor wired in SERIES yields a capacitance of 50.4 uf, whereas if they were wired in PARALLEL that would yield a capacitance of 250 uf.  I am guessing yours are wired in series.

I am wondering if perhaps the manufacturer changed how these are wired (economics of capacitors supply or they were changed as a repair along the way or perhaps some more obscure reason??).  The run capacitor sizing is a matter of trial and error in most cases to yield the greatest efficiency of the motor (i.e. the lowest running temperature).  If you have nothing better to do, I would be intereste d if you could verify how yours are wired.

All the best, 

Gary S. Silver
s/v Liahona
Amel SM 2000 #335
Puerto Rico



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Capacitors for 160 AC Dessalator

 

Gary & Mohammad,

The Dessalator D150, later named the D160 went through lots of changes, with the membranes being about the only part that remainded the about the same in all models. I said about the same because when Dessalator made the D150, each of the two 25x40 membranes was rated at 75 liters per hour at pressure. Filmtech changed manufacturing of this membrane, increasing output to 80 liters and Dessalator renamed the D150 to D160. 

BTW, some owners produce more than the rated numbers. You should not. Dial back the pressure knob so that output is correct for your membranes. Too much output and/or too much pressure will shorten membrane life. 


Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970


On Sun, Jun 17, 2018, 23:39 amelliahona <no_reply@...> wrote:
 

Mohammad & Aty:  


I don't know if we have the same motor for the HP Pump on the 160 l/hr Dessalator pump but I have noted your two different capacitors as opposed to the two 30 uf capacitors on mine.  Two 30 uf capacitors wired in PARALLEL yield a total capacitance of 60 uf.  

A 70 uf and a 180 uf capacitor wired in SERIES yields a capacitance of 50.4 uf, whereas if they were wired in PARALLEL that would yield a capacitance of 250 uf.  I am guessing yours are wired in series.

I am wondering if perhaps the manufacturer changed how these are wired (economics of capacitors supply or they were changed as a repair along the way or perhaps some more obscure reason??).  The run capacitor sizing is a matter of trial and error in most cases to yield the greatest efficiency of the motor (i.e. the lowest running temperature).  If you have nothing better to do, I would be intereste d if you could verify how yours are wired.

All the best, 

Gary S. Silver
s/v Liahona
Amel SM 2000 #335
Puerto Rico



How to flush Volvo D3-110i-C

ya_fohi
 

Hi,

I'm looking for some advice on how to flush the raw water system on my Volvo D3-110i-C. I know it has debris/salt etc. build up because I can feel it crunching in the rubber hose when I squeeze it, and also the engine which normally runs a 78°C at 1250rpm is now running at 83°C or higher.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Cheers,
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amrl 54 #98



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Alternator and Masse leak detector

John Clark
 

My SM#37,  with Volvo TMD22 requires a rev for tach and 12v alternator to fire off.  Not sure if it is right but it has been stable for last year.

John Clark 
SV Annie  SM37
enroute to St. Lucia.

On Mon, Jun 18, 2018, 9:46 AM greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 


Nick,

There are no "partial failures" of diodes.  As solid state devices they either work--or not.  When they fail they fail "open" and block current flow in both directions.

It is possible, I guess, you could have a short circuit inside the alternator somewhere, but the chances of it working at all would then be pretty close to zero.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA


---In amelyachtowners@..., <kwzy6vgkpvtfohjddjsrotobzwf2pjeafjwalhur@...> wrote :

Hello fellow Amelians,


I have had a great passage to the Azores from Antigua (14.5 days). 


Some months ago I asked  the forum about exciting the 24v alternator and was advised by Bill to check the relay and excitation circuit  which I did. However I still have the same problem that the alternator needs 1500 rpm to "kick in". Once kicked in I can throttle back idle and still charge.


No big deal right.....well yes and no I am beginning to think that maybe one of the diodes is defective and that I might have a small current drain through the alternator. Does anyone know if a diode failure is compatible with the general history I have described?


Why am I thinking along these lines? I had to return to the UK for two weeks, so when I left the boat last week I  checked the "Masse" leak indicator that came up with a leak on the -ve side. Unfortunately I had to catch my plane so I only turned off the master red handles for the batteries. Thinking that the batteries would be isolated.


Now back in the UK, unable to check the boat I am worrying. If I am correct, the red handles do not isolate the chargers or the 24v alternator from the battery bank. Thus if there is a diode failure on the 24v alternator the batteries could be leaking despite the red handles being turned off. This could be bad for my anodes and prop for example not to mention the battery bank. Does anyone know if the red handles isolate the 24v Alternator or not. I can not remember 100% but I believe not as when I was working on the engine one time I turned off the handles only to discover the cables to all be still live. 


To summarise what my questions are:

1. Is the excitation history, i.e. reving to 1500 etc on the 24v alternator compatible with partial diode failure?

2. Do the red handles shut off everything? 

3. Could a -ve leak as detected by the masse be compatible with diode failure?


Nick

Amelia (amel 54 hull 019)