Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: IMPORTANT - Dessalator JIC Flare fittings on High Pressure Hoses + More

 

Craig,

I cannot guarantee that anyone, anywhere is correct, rather all I can do is ask the questions of Dessalator, the OEM watermaker supplier to Amel, verify what Dessalator said, and verify what Dessalator meant.

When I asked the question, Dessalator told me “It is essential to reassemble the high pressure hose with Loctite 542 on the conical part.” I wasn't satisfied with that answer because of language issues with technical questions/answers. So I made 3 graphics of 542 on different parts of the JIC male end. After two-back-and-forths with Dessalator marking up my graphics, it was perfectly clear that by conical they meant the 37 degree flare portions and NOTHING on the threads. I also sent them a photo of a bottle of 542 to ensure that we were talking about the same Loctite product. They verified that. Then I produced the graphic shown here for the Amel School Clients. I reworded what Dessalator originally said to read,  “It is essential to reassemble the high pressure hose with Loctite 542 on the flare part only...not the threads.”

Then I posted a revised Membrane Replacement Procedure for my Clients.

At that point, I thought that this is important and maybe some other owners in the Amel Yacht Owners group would want the same information.

Note, at no time did I take the "easy way" out by GOOGLING for the answer.

I am sorry that what I did was not considered valuable by you, but maybe someone else needed it. And maybe someone could argue that there is a better and different way to handle this JIC flare joint...all possible. BUT, what I posted is what the OEM Supplier to Amel said and meant.



Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970






On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 4:05 PM sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Oh Bill, puleeze - nobody's arguing. Not worth getting your pants in a bunch. The Dessalator guy just had the wrong Loctite number. I'm sure you accurately reported the (incorrect) info he gave you.  Not a biggie - we still love you!


So bottom line, Loctite recommends putting 5452 on the flared male surface of JIC fittings and on the threads. Dessalator recommends putting 542 (a thread locker only) on the smooth flared surface. Easy to pick the correct one.  

Cheers, Craig

--In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

Craig & All,

You are correct about Loctite, and I said, that until yesterday, that is what I believed.

HOWEVER, I am correct about Dessalator stating this is required. In this case I believe that any Amel Owner should defer to what Dessalator states.

ADDITIONALLY, To ensure my complete understanding of what Dessalator was saying, I exchanged several drawings with Dessalator illustrating the application on the flare part of the JIC.

OF COURSE, any owner can and should make his own judgement as to what to do in  this case. 

I was hoping that my communication the Amel Owner's Group would be appreciated, rather than argued. I will consider this issue the next time I learn something that I believe owners would want to know.

A client of Amel School is testing the Dessalator procedure this week to see if it will stop the slight leak at the flare joint. We are hopeful that it will, however, I think there is at least a 50% chance that the flare faces are damaged and that is the cause of his leak. Possibly he will report on this thread the results.

Best,
Bill Rouse

On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 9:57 AM sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Bill and All,


Yes, do use a sealant on JIC fittings. Perhaps a typo in BebeBill's post, but Henkel, the manufactured of Loctite, does not recommend Loctite 542 for this, They recommend Loctite 5452 and state it should be applied to both the male face of the JIC fitting and to the threads (for vibration resistance). See their data sheet for more info at https://www.turtle.com/ASSETS/DOCUMENTS/ITEMS/EN/Loctite_1265769_Datasheet.pdf

Another option, perhaps easier to use, is the Flaretite Seal, which is a thin 304 stainless seal with L octite baked on. Just insert it over the JIC and connect.  And, of course, other brands are out there.

Cheers,  Craig Br iggs, SN68 Sangaris

---In amelyachtowners@...,
All,
Please read all of this.

Just when I was fairly confident that I knew all I needed to know about changing/servicing Dessalator Membranes, I learned something new from Dessalator, France.

As you know, the Dessalator High Pressure Hoses connect to the High Pressure Pump, Control Panel, and Membranes utilizing a stainless steel JIC Flare fitting. A JIC fitting is widely used in many industries for connections of fluid-carrying hoses at high pressure. JIC fitting connections have matched 37-degree flare seating surfaces. I have always believed that JIC seals metal-to-metal. I was wrong in terms of Dessalator.

Dessalator notified me yesterday to use Loctite 542 on the "flare part only" of all JIC fittings....(non-relevant text deleted).

Best, Bill Rouse



 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: IMPORTANT - Dessalator JIC Flare fittings on High Pressure Hoses + More

Craig Briggs
 


Hey Bill,

On the second part of your post about the gal with the possibly damaged high pressure flare faces, I've had perfect results with leaking/damaged flare joint in the past with the Flaretite seals which actually provide fresh metal for the sealing joint, along with the baked on Loctite. Certainly worth a try and much better than Loctite alone.

Cheers, Craig Briggs, SN68 Sangaris

--In amelyachtowners@..., <brouse@...> wrote :

Craig & All,

......(2nd part of original post)...................A client of Amel School is testing the Dessalator procedure this week to see if it will stop the slight leak at the flare joint. We are hopeful that it will, however, I think there is at least a 50% chance that the flare faces are damaged and that is the cause of his leak. Possibly he will report on this thread the results.

Best,
Bill Rouse


Re: Boots for spreaders

arthur saftlas
 

A properly trimmed genoa should not touch a spreader.

"The cure for anything is salt water; sweat, tears, or the sea." - Karen Blixen




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: IMPORTANT - Dessalator JIC Flare fittings on High Pressure Hoses + More

Craig Briggs
 

Oh Bill, puleeze - nobody's arguing. Not worth getting your pants in a bunch. The Dessalator guy just had the wrong Loctite number. I'm sure you accurately reported the (incorrect) info he gave you.  Not a biggie - we still love you!

So bottom line, Loctite recommends putting 5452 on the flared male surface of JIC fittings and on the threads. Dessalator recommends putting 542 (a thread locker only) on the smooth flared surface. Easy to pick the correct one.  

Cheers, Craig

--In amelyachtowners@..., <brouse@...> wrote :

Craig & All,

You are correct about Loctite, and I said, that until yesterday, that is what I believed.

HOWEVER, I am correct about Dessalator stating this is required. In this case I believe that any Amel Owner should defer to what Dessalator states.

ADDITIONALLY, To ensure my complete understanding of what Dessalator was saying, I exchanged several drawings with Dessalator illustrating the application on the flare part of the JIC.

OF COURSE, any owner can and should make his own judgement as to what to do in  this case. 

I was hoping that my communication the Amel Owner's Group would be appreciated, rather than argued. I will consider this issue the next time I learn something that I believe owners would want to know.

A client of Amel School is testing the Dessalator procedure this week to see if it will stop the slight leak at the flare joint. We are hopeful that it will, however, I think there is at least a 50% chance that the flare faces are damaged and that is the cause of his leak. Possibly he will report on this thread the results.

Best,
Bill Rouse

On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 9:57 AM sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Bill and All,


Yes, do use a sealant on JIC fittings. Perhaps a typo in BebeBill's post, but Henkel, the manufactured of Loctite, does not recommend Loctite 542 for this, They recommend Loctite 5452 and state it should be applied to both the male face of the JIC fitting and to the threads (for vibration resistance). See their data sheet for more info at https://www.turtle.com/ASSETS/DOCUMENTS/ITEMS/EN/Loctite_1265769_Datasheet.pdf

Another option, perhaps easier to use, is the Flaretite Seal, which is a thin 304 stainless seal with Loctite baked on. Just insert it over the JIC and connect.  And, of course, other brands are out there.

Cheers,  Craig Br iggs, SN68 Sangaris

---In amelyachtowners@..., <brouse@...> wrote :
All,
Please read all of this.

Just when I was fairly confident that I knew all I needed to know about changing/servicing Dessalator Membranes, I learned something new from Dessalator, France.

As you know, the Dessalator High Pressure Hoses connect to the High Pressure Pump, Control Panel, and Membranes utilizing a stainless steel JIC Flare fitting. A JIC fitting is widely used in many industries for connections of fluid-carrying hoses at high pressure. JIC fitting connections have matched 37-degree flare seating surfaces. I have always believed that JIC seals metal-to-metal. I was wrong in terms of Dessalator.

Dessalator notified me yesterday to use Loctite 542 on the "flare part only" of all JIC fittings....(non-relevant text deleted).

Best, Bill Rouse



 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: IMPORTANT - Dessalator JIC Flare fittings on High Pressure Hoses + More

Alan Leslie
 

Our Dessaltor DUO 60 manual, English version, states :

"The HP connectors should be installed strictly in accordance with the instructions (Appendix A2). Apply a little loctite or nut seal to the two male and female cones before tightening"

BUT this is not mentioned in the French version which came with the boat.

We have had leaks also from the tapered thread connector that screws into the membrane housing.

I use hydraulic thread sealant on all the metal to metal connections.

Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437





Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Alternator and Masse leak detector

 

Nick,

I am sending you an Off-Group, direct email.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970






On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 1:00 PM Nick Newington ngtnewington@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Bill,


I am the second owner.

The engine is original. I purchased the boat in June 2017,  it had been ashore in Grenada for three years as the then owner was very ill and unable to use the boat.

The only thing that was changed on the engine in my ownership has been the turbo boost pressure sensor. This was a five minute job to remove the old sensor and replace with new sensor. Done by Volvo agent in Martinique.

In the year I have owned the boat I have had no zinc sacrifice beyond normal, there was until recently no fault on the indicator including just after the turbo boost  sensor was replaced. So this fault is new.

I already have a propeller zinc.

Is there a way in which I can test if the Isolated ground has been defeated?

Nick
On 19 Jun 2018, at 16:07, Bill Rouse brouse@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Nick,

Your problem may be an indication of something much more serious.

How long have you owned this Amel 54? Has there been an engine change, or any sensors changed?

When Amel installed the Volvo D3-110, it had been modified to be Isolated Ground by Volvo France. If you ask any Volvo dealer to check the serial number for such a modification, it will not show up on Volvos database. In fact, it is difficult to find any Volvo record of this modification which occurred with 100% of all D3s installed when the 54 was built by Amel. 

I believe that your Isolated Ground has been defeated because of either:
  1. Engine change
  2. Non-Isolated Ground sensors or switches installed replacing original ones
  3. Some other modification made by some "expert" which has defeated the Non-Isolated Ground
Yes, if any of the above are true, when you disconnect the 24VDC Negative from the 24VDC Alternator, you will remove the fault indicated on the Bonding test circuit..

I consider this issue serious and you should seek expert help.. A defeated Isolated Ground has been the cause of ruined C-Drives and other serious issues. Until you have this resolved, you should add a propeller zinc, although that will not completely protect things.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970






On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 5:23 AM Nick Newington ngtnewington@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Alan,


I have had an electrician check the boat for me and I asked him to look into the -ve leak and to then try some diagnosis.

This is his reply  "I checked the leak controller, it shows a leak in negativ. I tried several things like bilge pump but nothing changed. When I dismantled the negativ from the 24 V alternator, the leak light went off. So, the problem might be the alternator or somewhere at the engine.”

So I reckon that this would suggest a fault on the 24v alternator or some kind of leak to the bonding system from the engine.

Nick


On 19 Jun 2018, at 02:18, divanz620@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Hi Nick,


We have a NEXT STEP-2 reg ...there is a file in the Files section showing how I did it

The reg in the Leece  Neville alt is not designed to charge deep cycle batteries.
Keeping the voltage always at 28.8V will eventually kill your AGM batteries. They need a bulk, absorption, float regimen if they are to be cared for properly.

We have 
600W solar panels and  a Victron MPPT controller
Leece Neville 175A engine alt with Next Step-2 reg
Victron Skyalla 100A charger
Promariner 30A charger

and they are all set to the same absorption and float voltages.


Diodes fail open, I don't think that can be the cause of your problem.

Somewhere on some device that has both 24VDC feed AND a connection to the bonding system, there is a connection between -ve and the bonding connection...and it may not be a metal to metal contact , frequently it is through the sea water. 

Good Luck
Alan
Elyse SM437  Yasawa-i-rara







Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Alternator and Masse leak detector

ngtnewington Newington
 

Hi Bill,

I am the second owner.

The engine is original. I purchased the boat in June 2017,  it had been ashore in Grenada for three years as the then owner was very ill and unable to use the boat.

The only thing that was changed on the engine in my ownership has been the turbo boost pressure sensor. This was a five minute job to remove the old sensor and replace with new sensor. Done by Volvo agent in Martinique.

In the year I have owned the boat I have had no zinc sacrifice beyond normal, there was until recently no fault on the indicator including just after the turbo boost  sensor was replaced. So this fault is new.

I already have a propeller zinc.

Is there a way in which I can test if the Isolated ground has been defeated?

Nick

On 19 Jun 2018, at 16:07, Bill Rouse brouse@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Nick,

Your problem may be an indication of something much more serious.

How long have you owned this Amel 54? Has there been an engine change, or any sensors changed?

When Amel installed the Volvo D3-110, it had been modified to be Isolated Ground by Volvo France. If you ask any Volvo dealer to check the serial number for such a modification, it will not show up on Volvos database. In fact, it is difficult to find any Volvo record of this modification which occurred with 100% of all D3s installed when the 54 was built by Amel. 

I believe that your Isolated Ground has been defeated because of either:
  1. Engine change
  2. Non-Isolated Ground sensors or switches installed replacing original ones
  3. Some other modification made by some "expert" which has defeated the Non-Isolated Ground
Yes, if any of the above are true, when you disconnect the 24VDC Negative from the 24VDC Alternator, you will remove the fault indicated on the Bonding test circuit..

I consider this issue serious and you should seek expert help. A defeated Isolated Ground has been the cause of ruined C-Drives and other serious issues. Until you have this resolved, you should add a propeller zinc, although that will not completely protect things.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970






On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 5:23 AM Nick Newington ngtnewington@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Alan,


I have had an electrician check the boat for me and I asked him to look into the -ve leak and to then try some diagnosis.

This is his reply  "I checked the leak controller, it shows a leak in negativ. I tried several things like bilge pump but nothing changed. When I dismantled the negativ from the 24 V alternator, the leak light went off. So, the problem might be the alternator or somewhere at the engine.”

So I reckon that this would suggest a fault on the 24v alternator or some kind of leak to the bonding system from the engine.

Nick


On 19 Jun 2018, at 02:18, divanz620@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Hi Nick,


We have a NEXT STEP-2 reg ...there is a file in the Files section showing how I did it

The reg in the Leece  Neville alt is not designed to charge deep cycle batteries.
Keeping the voltage always at 28.8V will eventually kill your AGM batteries. They need a bulk, absorption, float regimen if they are to be cared for properly.

We have 
600W solar panels and  a Victron MPPT controller
Leece Neville 175A engine alt with Next Step-2 reg
Victron Skyalla 100A charger
Promariner 30A charger

and they are all set to the same absorption and float voltages.


Diodes fail open, I don't think that can be the cause of your problem.

Somewhere on some device that has both 24VDC feed AND a connection to the bonding system, there is a connection between -ve and the bonding connection...and it may not be a metal to metal contact , frequently it is through the sea water. 

Good Luck
Alan
Elyse SM437  Yasawa-i-rara







Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Boots for spreaders

Patrick McAneny
 

Craig, First off, I am no Gentleman , ask my wife. Secondly , I spoke to my sail maker and will be sending it off for a patch, but I still want to put a boot on to lessen the chafe in the future. I just now think I found one on Amazon I will order, not cheap $100/pair.
Pat
SM3123



-----Original Message-----
From: sangaris@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Tue, Jun 19, 2018 9:41 am
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Boots for spreaders

 
Hey Pat,
Gentlemen don't sail upwind.  :-)

An option I've used is chafe patches on the genoa.

Cheers, Craig


---In amelyachtowners@..., <sailw32@...> wrote :

I have considerable chafe on my genoa that is only a few years old and maybe about 5000 miles on it. Its obviously rubbing on the spreader. Has anyone bought  boots for the spreaders on a SM that fit well. I have the wheels , but they don't provide enough protection.
Thanks,
Pat
SM#123


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] How to flush Volvo D3-110i-C

 

Bob,

This is all good. Thanks. 


Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970


On Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 00:24 rossidesigngroup@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Regarding fresh water flushes.  We also flush our entire system with fresh water (we do not have a loop for refrigerators but we also flush the pumps and lines to the toilets).  


However, we do this more frequently--when we are at the dock for more than a few days and even at anchor and sometimes we use the recommended mixture of Salt-A-Way.  We have been at the dock here at Cagliari for 8 days and will depart today--everything: Yanmar, Onan, AC, Anchor Wash, toilet pumps, and of course the sea chest and manifold have been in fresh water (measured at 140 ppm) the entire time.  Fresh water helps disolve deposits, prevents or kills marine growth, minimizes galvanic action.

We have a ball valve that isolates water from the manifold to the Dessalator.  When the Dessalator is flushed with fresh water, we let the water push back into the manifold and then shut the ball valve.  This keeps the supply hose to the low pressure pump in fresh water and prevents, say Salt-A-Way from entering the Dessalator system.

When we make water at anchor we usually divert the first few minutes of production into several 5 litre jugs that we keep on the engine room floor.  Usually this initial product has higher ppm and potential odor.  We use this same water to flush the generator/manifold etc. when we are finished.  It does not take much to flush the generator, manifold, engine, anchor wash.  We think it costs about $0.10/liter to make our own water so for a buck or 2 you have more than enough fresh water to do the job.

A couple of other actions regarding fresh water.  When we are at a dock and have been anchoring, we pull the chain out into a large rubber bucket that normally stores cleaning products and brushes.  We fill the bucket with fresh water and let the chain soak, change the water, and then let the chain dry on deck before it goes back into the chain locker.  Our guess is that most chain rust happens in the chain locker when the moist, salt laden chain sits there.  This may be another reason why the overhead of the chain locker deteriorates on some Amels. If we get a chance we also spray out the inside of the chain locker.

None of these actions seem burdensome to us.  If you build it into a routine, it is not complicated.  A side benefit is that they let us monitor how well the impellers and pumps are pulling water.

When underway we keep a large plastic bowl in our head sinks (the kind with a soft urethane bottom on the lower third of the bowl).  Most water is used for hand washing and face washing and that soapy water is just poured into the toilet and flushed....flushing it and keeping it in fresh water for periods of time as well.

Bob and Suzanne, KAIMI SM429
 
< /p>


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: IMPORTANT - Dessalator JIC Flare fittings on High Pressure Hoses + More

 

Craig & All,

You are correct about Loctite, and I said, that until yesterday, that is what I believed.

HOWEVER, I am correct about Dessalator stating this is required. In this case I believe that any Amel Owner should defer to what Dessalator states.

ADDITIONALLY, To ensure my complete understanding of what Dessalator was saying, I exchanged several drawings with Dessalator illustrating the application on the flare part of the JIC.

OF COURSE, any owner can and should make his own judgement as to what to do in  this case. 

I was hoping that my communication the Amel Owner's Group would be appreciated, rather than argued. I will consider this issue the next time I learn something that I believe owners would want to know.

A client of Amel School is testing the Dessalator procedure this week to see if it will stop the slight leak at the flare joint. We are hopeful that it will, however, I think there is at least a 50% chance that the flare faces are damaged and that is the cause of his leak. Possibly he will report on this thread the results.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970






On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 9:57 AM sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Bill and All,


Yes, do use a sealant on JIC fittings. Perhaps a typo in BebeBill's post, but Henkel, the manufactured of Loctite, does not recommend Loctite 542 for this, They recommend Loctite 5452 and state it should be applied to both the male face of the JIC fitting and to the threads (for vibration resistance). See their data sheet for more info at https://www.turtle.com/ASSETS/DOCUMENTS/ITEMS/EN/Loctite_1265769_Datasheet.pdf

Another option, perhaps easier to use, is the Flaretite Seal, which is a thin 304 stainless seal with Loctite baked on. Just insert it over the JIC and connect.  And, of course, other brands are out there.

Cheers,  Craig Br iggs, SN68 Sangaris

---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :
All,
Please read all of this.

Just when I was fairly confident that I knew all I needed to know about changing/servicing Dessalator Membranes, I learned something new from Dessalator, France.

As you know, the Dessalator High Pressure Hoses connect to the High Pressure Pump, Control Panel, and Membranes utilizing a stainless steel JIC Flare fitting. A JIC fitting is widely used in many industries for connections of fluid-carrying hoses at high pressure. JIC fitting connections have matched 37-degree flare seating surfaces. I have always believed that JIC seals metal-to-metal. I was wrong in terms of Dessalator.

Dessalator notified me yesterday to use Loctite 542 on the "flare part only" of all JIC fittings....(non-relevant text deleted).

Best, Bill Rouse



 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: IMPORTANT - Dessalator JIC Flare fittings on High Pressure Hoses + More

Mohammad Shirloo
 

Martin from Dessalator technical also recommended the use of Loctite 542 for the installation of a high pressure gauge that had gone bad.
 
Respectfully;
Mohammad and Aty
B&B Kokomo
Amel 54 #099
 



From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2018 7:51 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: IMPORTANT - Dessalator JIC Flare fittings on High Pressure Hoses + More

 

Bill and All,


Yes, do use a sealant on JIC fittings. Perhaps a typo in BebeBill's post, but Henkel, the manufactured of Loctite, does not recommend Loctite 542 for this, They recommend Loctite 5452 and state it should be applied to both the male face of the JIC fitting and to the threads (for vibration resistance). See their data sheet for more info at https://www.turtle.com/ASSETS/DOCUMENTS/ITEMS/EN/Loctite_1265769_Datasheet.pdf

Another option, perhaps easier to use, is the Flaretite Seal, which is a thin 304 stainless seal with Loctite baked on. Just insert it over the JIC and connect.  And, of course, other brands are out there.

Cheers,  Craig Briggs, SN68 Sangaris

---In amelyachtowners@..., <brouse@...> wrote :
All,
Please read all of this.

Just when I was fairly confident that I knew all I needed to know about changing/servicing Dessalator Membranes, I learned something new from Dessalator, France.

As you know, the Dessalator High Pressure Hoses connect to the High Pressure Pump, Control Panel, and Membranes utilizing a stainless steel JIC Flare fitting. A JIC fitting is widely used in many industries for connections of fluid-carrying hoses at high pressure. JIC fitting connections have matched 37-degree flare seating surfaces. I have always believed that JIC seals metal-to-metal. I was wrong in terms of Dessalator.

Dessalator notified me yesterday to use Loctite 542 on the "flare part only" of all JIC fittings....(non-relevant text deleted).

Best, Bill Rouse



 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Old B&G electronics for sale

Paul Cooper <paul.cooper74@...>
 

Cool.  Thanks!

On Monday, June 18, 2018, 7:49:59 PM MDT, osterberg.paul.l@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:


 

Paul, no the Raymarine instruments needs bigger holes so I just screw a thin piece of plywood behind the old holes and use that to guide the hole saw to make bigger holes. No problem, the same technique can be used for instruments with smaller holes, just need a thin ply or similar behind the old holes the make the hole at the right size. Good material to have aboard is plastic cutting boards very low cost and versatile for such purpose and many others. 

Paul on SY Kerpa SM 259


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Alternator and Masse leak detector

 

Nick,

Your problem may be an indication of something much more serious.

How long have you owned this Amel 54? Has there been an engine change, or any sensors changed?

When Amel installed the Volvo D3-110, it had been modified to be Isolated Ground by Volvo France. If you ask any Volvo dealer to check the serial number for such a modification, it will not show up on Volvos database. In fact, it is difficult to find any Volvo record of this modification which occurred with 100% of all D3s installed when the 54 was built by Amel. 

I believe that your Isolated Ground has been defeated because of either:
  1. Engine change
  2. Non-Isolated Ground sensors or switches installed replacing original ones
  3. Some other modification made by some "expert" which has defeated the Non-Isolated Ground
Yes, if any of the above are true, when you disconnect the 24VDC Negative from the 24VDC Alternator, you will remove the fault indicated on the Bonding test circuit.

I consider this issue serious and you should seek expert help. A defeated Isolated Ground has been the cause of ruined C-Drives and other serious issues. Until you have this resolved, you should add a propeller zinc, although that will not completely protect things.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970






On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 5:23 AM Nick Newington ngtnewington@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Alan,


I have had an electrician check the boat for me and I asked him to look into the -ve leak and to then try some diagnosis.

This is his reply  "I checked the leak controller, it shows a leak in negativ. I tried several things like bilge pump but nothing changed. When I dismantled the negativ from the 24 V alternator, the leak light went off. So, the problem might be the alternator or somewhere at the engine.”

So I reckon that this would suggest a fault on the 24v alternator or some kind of leak to the bonding system from the engine.

Nick


On 19 Jun 2018, at 02:18, divanz620@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Hi Nick,


We have a NEXT STEP-2 reg ...there is a file in the Files section showing how I did it

The reg in the Leece  Neville alt is not designed to charge deep cycle batteries.
Keeping the voltage always at 28.8V will eventually kill your AGM batteries. They need a bulk, absorption, float regimen if they are to be cared for properly.

We have 
600W solar panels and  a Victron MPPT controller
Leece Neville 175A engine alt with Next Step-2 reg
Victron Skyalla 100A charger
Promariner 30A charger

and they are all set to the same absorption and float voltages.


Diodes fail open, I don't think that can be the cause of your problem.

Somewhere on some device that has both 24VDC feed AND a connection to the bonding system, there is a connection between -ve and the bonding connection...and it may not be a metal to metal contact , frequently it is through the sea water. 

Good Luck
Alan
Elyse SM437  Yasawa-i-rara




Re: IMPORTANT - Dessalator JIC Flare fittings on High Pressure Hoses + More

Craig Briggs
 

Bill and All,

Yes, do use a sealant on JIC fittings. Perhaps a typo in BebeBill's post, but Henkel, the manufactured of Loctite, does not recommend Loctite 542 for this, They recommend Loctite 5452 and state it should be applied to both the male face of the JIC fitting and to the threads (for vibration resistance). See their data sheet for more info at https://www.turtle.com/ASSETS/DOCUMENTS/ITEMS/EN/Loctite_1265769_Datasheet.pdf

Another option, perhaps easier to use, is the Flaretite Seal, which is a thin 304 stainless seal with Loctite baked on. Just insert it over the JIC and connect.  And, of course, other brands are out there.

Cheers,  Craig Briggs, SN68 Sangaris

---In amelyachtowners@..., <brouse@...> wrote :
All,
Please read all of this.

Just when I was fairly confident that I knew all I needed to know about changing/servicing Dessalator Membranes, I learned something new from Dessalator, France.

As you know, the Dessalator High Pressure Hoses connect to the High Pressure Pump, Control Panel, and Membranes utilizing a stainless steel JIC Flare fitting. A JIC fitting is widely used in many industries for connections of fluid-carrying hoses at high pressure. JIC fitting connections have matched 37-degree flare seating surfaces. I have always believed that JIC seals metal-to-metal. I was wrong in terms of Dessalator.

Dessalator notified me yesterday to use Loctite 542 on the "flare part only" of all JIC fittings....(non-relevant text deleted).

Best, Bill Rouse



 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Alternator and Masse leak detector

ngtnewington Newington
 

Hi Alan,
Thanks
Yes I have checked the belts, no problem there.
The rectifier may be at fault, I think. Will have it bench tested.

Re -ve light leak coming on at the Masse it will be a long process but I guess starting with the bilge pump, wc motors, Bowthruster, windlasses etc etc. 
Thanks
Nick s/yAmelia


On 18 Jun 2018, at 09:40, divanz620@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Nick,

Have you checked the alternator belt tension? If the belts aren't tight enough they could slip at low revs and therefore the alt won't charge.
It could also be a blown rectifier in the alternator...you need an auto electrician to check that.
The red handles only disconnect the batteries from the users on the boat. The alternator output is wired directly to the batteries.
If you have a rectifier failure in the alternator it is very unlikely that would lead to the Masse -ve light being activated. 
Diodes generally fail open circuit not short circuit.
The -ve masse light indicates that you have a connection somewhere between house bank -ve and the bonding system (ground). The most likely cause of that is something that is 24VDC powered and also has metal parts in touch with saltwater. The macerator pumps in the heads are the usual culprit, but beware of AC devices such as laptop chargers which m ay internally have -ve connected to ground and that will feed back through the system if you have the original Calpeda A/C pump...that is where the AC ground is connected to the bonding system.
In summary i don't think your alternator issues are associated with your -ve masse issue.
Good luck
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437,  the Blue Lagoon, Fiji


IMPORTANT - Dessalator JIC Flare fittings on High Pressure Hoses + More

 

All,

Please read all of this.

Just when I was fairly confident that I knew all I needed to know about changing/servicing Dessalator Membranes, I learned something new from Dessalator, France.

As you know, the Dessalator High Pressure Hoses connect to the High Pressure Pump, Control Panel, and Membranes utilizing a stainless steel JIC Flare fitting. A JIC fitting is widely used in many industries for connections of fluid-carrying hoses at high pressure. JIC fitting connections have matched 37-degree flare seating surfaces. I have always believed that JIC seals metal-to-metal. I was wrong in terms of Dessalator.

Dessalator notified me yesterday to use Loctite 542 on the "flare part only" of all JIC fittings. I have modified the appropriate page(s) in my Amel School Book for all my clients. I normally do not share contents of the Amel School Book with anyone other than my clients, but I believe it is important to notify all of you.

I hope that this will help you.

Regarding the Amel School Book, Support, and Discounts on Amel OEM, or equivalent replacements, including Dessalator and many others: If you have owned your Amel for over 2 years, you might be interested in this: CLICK HERE

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970





Re: Boots for spreaders

Craig Briggs
 

Hey Pat,
Gentlemen don't sail upwind.  :-)

An option I've used is chafe patches on the genoa.

Cheers, Craig


---In amelyachtowners@..., <sailw32@...> wrote :

I have considerable chafe on my genoa that is only a few years old and maybe about 5000 miles on it. Its obviously rubbing on the spreader. Has anyone bought  boots for the spreaders on a SM that fit well. I have the wheels , but they don't provide enough protection.

Thanks,

Pat

SM#123


Boots for spreaders

Patrick McAneny
 

I have considerable chafe on my genoa that is only a few years old and maybe about 5000 miles on it. Its obviously rubbing on the spreader. Has anyone bought  boots for the spreaders on a SM that fit well. I have the wheels , but they don't provide enough protection.

Thanks,

Pat

SM#123


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] How to flush Volvo D3-110i-C

karkauai
 

All good ideas, Bob.  It is interesting that on Kristy, and other SMs I assume”, the drain for the chain locker is just below the “false floor” of the locker (not at the bottom of the locker).  I assume that is to prevent debris from clogging the drain.  The result is that water drains through the holes in the floor and sits in the bottom of the Vee of the hull.  It is not possible to drain that space without removing the chain and sucking the water out through one of the holes.  When my chain rusted into a solid ball, that Vee space was 2/3 full of bits of rust.  I cut a hole big enough to get a large shop vacuum hose in.  Then I replaced the cut out with a larger piece screwed to it to keep it from falling through the hole.
Bottom line is that there is always water in that space and always humidity in the locker.

Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy
SM 243

On Jun 19, 2018, at 1:24 AM, rossidesigngroup@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Regarding fresh water flushes.  We also flush our entire system with fresh water (we do not have a loop for refrigerators but we also flush the pumps and lines to the toilets).  


However, we do this more frequently--when we are at the dock for more than a few days and even at anchor and sometimes we use the recommended mixture of Salt-A-Way.  We have been at the dock here at Cagliari for 8 days and will depart today--everything: Yanmar, Onan, AC, Anchor Wash, toilet pumps, and of course the sea chest and manifold have been in fresh water (measured at 140 ppm) the entire time.  Fresh water helps disolve deposits, prevents or kills marine growth, minimizes galvanic action.

We have a ball valve that isolates water from the manifold to the Dessalator.  When the Dessalator is flushed with fresh water, we let the water push back into the manifold and then shut the ball valve.  This keeps the supply hose to the low pressure pump in fresh water and prevents, say Salt-A-Way from entering the Dessalator system.

When we make water at anchor we usually divert the first few minutes of production into several 5 litre jugs that we keep on the engine room floor.  Usually this initial product has higher ppm and potential odor.  We use this same water to flush the generator/manifold etc. when we are finished.  It does not take much to flush the generator, manifold, engine, anchor wash.  We think it costs about $0.10/liter to make our own water so for a buck or 2 you have more than enough fresh water to do the job.

A couple of other actions regarding fresh water.  When we are at a dock and have been anchoring, we pull the chain out into a large rubber bucket that normally stores cleaning products and brushes.  We fill the bucket with fresh water and let the chain soak, change the water, and then let the chain dry on deck before it goes back into the chain locker.  Our guess is that most chain rust happens in the chain locker when the moist, salt laden chain sits there.  This may be another reason why the overhead of the chain locker deteriorates on some Amels. If we get a chance we also spray out the inside of the chain locker.

None of these actions seem burdensome to us.  If you build it into a routine, it is not complicated.  A side benefit is that they let us monitor how well the impellers and pumps are pulling water.

When underway we keep a large plastic bowl in our head sinks (the kind with a soft urethane bottom on the lower third of the bowl).  Most water is used for hand washing and face washing and that soapy water is just poured into the toilet and flushed....flushing it and keeping it in fresh water for periods of time as well.

Bob and Suzanne, KAIMI SM429
 


Re: Shore Side Circuit Breaker Tripping When Plugging in Boat

Aras Grinius <n33077@...>
 

I've been having the same problem, however I use a YC-230 to combine voltage of 2 30 amp /120V to give give me 220V.  What I originally thought was that my batt charger failed.   
It tuned out I had a couple of issues: master breaker failed as did the alternator.   To get the engine panel working I had to excite the alternator to 1200 RPM's then it would begin to charge.  The master breaker being 30 years old will not stay closed. I ordered a new from Maude.  Right now, I'm putting everything back together and shall see if it is fixed.   What is strange is how everything failed seemingly at once.

Aras
Sharki #163
S/V FIASCO