Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Isolated grounding question - solar installation

hanspeter baettig
 

Bill
The solar panels of your previous boat from Riza where , still are fixed on an aluminum frame !

Hanspeter
Tamango 2


----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----
Von : amelyachtowners@...
Datum : 26/06/2018 - 18:16 (MS)
An : amelyachtowners@...
Cc : jamescromie@...
Betreff : Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Isolated grounding question - solar installation

 

James,

I believe that if you assembled an expert panel to discuss this issue consisting of Nigel Calder, Henri Amel, Joe Dwyer (lightning expert), the best marine surveyors, and others, the shining star on that panel would be Henri Amel. Sure, that belief is personal and could be argued. Maybe what cannot be argued on this issue is that more design, effort, and money is has been but into each Amel Yacht during the last 20 years than any other builder of production pleasure yachts. I personally have had issues with a few Nigel Calder doctrines, but I can understand when he write these as "one-fits-all-boats" he certainly can be a little 'Off" on one design/boat.

From personal experience:
I do not believe that bonding is required on the arch of a SM anymore than its life rail, standing rigging and masts...they are not bonded by Amel, so Henri Amel agrees. My guess is, that as unpredictable as lightning is, it
almost always strikes the masts.
​BTW, ​
I am thankful for the carbon fiber masts...they make excellent lightning rods. I have twice experienced lightning strikes in anchorages where "unpredictable lightning" struck boat
​s​
with a carbon fiber mast
​s​
, and left all the rest of us mostly untouched.


Little side note: After Henri died, the management of Amel decided to add some things 
to the Amel bonding system
​ ​
like standing rigging and life rail
​. I wonder whose research they used, or maybe they thought it is easier to bond, than to explain? I will never know the answer to that question.​
 

EARTH to the Arch & Frames:
I do not think that DC Negative is attached to the solar panel frame. How do you know that it is? Home solar installations normally require a "safety ground" a/k/a EARTH attached to the frames, then to EARTH. It is possible that some expert, somewhere, has googled this point and relayed it to you. Remember DC Negative is not EARTH, and your Amel does not have an EARTH circuit for DC Voltage. I believe that the arch is isolated from DC Positive and Negative, and if so, connecting the Arch to Amel bonding is OK, but probably not necessary. Probably more important is dissimilar metal corrosion when using stainless steel and aluminum in the same construction. I know this is probably not the case with your Emek Arch, which is stainless, but, do your panels have aluminum frames?

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970







On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 7:39 AM Nick Newington ngtnewington@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Re lightening: this subject opens a can of worms with lots of theories. You should read Nigel Calder’s book. He explains the various ideas. Personally I am not at all convinced of one argument nor another. 


 My view re potential electrolysis is that on balance every metal fitting should be linked to the bonding system, but the important ones are the sea water exposed ones like through hull fittings and sea water pumps. The idea being that there is no potential difference between any one piece of hardware and another. 

Nick (Amelia hull 019 AML 54)
On 26 Jun 2018, at 13:02, James Cromie jamescromie@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Thank you for your input and experience. I waS also not originally planning to bond the frame. Your points about the other metallic fixtures are good. However, I wonder about how this situation may be different considering the arch is holding a high voltage system. My feeling is it should not matter as long as the solar power circuit “-“ is well insulated from the housing. 


What about the potential risk related to lightening? Is this at all relevant?

Pardon my ignorance!

James


On Jun 26, 2018, at 3:42 AM, divanz620@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Interesting....

We have a stainless arch with solar panels and a wind generator on a separate mount, but none of this framework is connected to the bonding system.
I'm not sure that this is necessary.
None of the other stainless structures on the boat are connected to the bonding system.
The masts and rigging aren't, neither are the rails around the boat, nor the bow roller fitments.
I'd be interested to know what others think about this
Olivier ? Bill R ? Bill K?
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437







Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Isolated grounding question - solar installation

 

James,

I believe that if you assembled an expert panel to discuss this issue consisting of Nigel Calder, Henri Amel, Joe Dwyer (lightning expert), the best marine surveyors, and others, the shining star on that panel would be Henri Amel. Sure, that belief is personal and could be argued. Maybe what cannot be argued on this issue is that more design, effort, and money is has been but into each Amel Yacht during the last 20 years than any other builder of production pleasure yachts. I personally have had issues with a few Nigel Calder doctrines, but I can understand when he write these as "one-fits-all-boats" he certainly can be a little 'Off" on one design/boat.

From personal experience:
I do not believe that bonding is required on the arch of a SM anymore than its life rail, standing rigging and masts...they are not bonded by Amel, so Henri Amel agrees. My guess is, that as unpredictable as lightning is, it
almost always strikes the masts.
​BTW, ​
I am thankful for the carbon fiber masts...they make excellent lightning rods. I have twice experienced lightning strikes in anchorages where "unpredictable lightning" struck boat
​s​
with a carbon fiber mast
​s​
, and left all the rest of us mostly untouched.


Little side note: After Henri died, the management of Amel decided to add some things 
to the Amel bonding system
​ ​
like standing rigging and life rail
​. I wonder whose research they used, or maybe they thought it is easier to bond, than to explain? I will never know the answer to that question.​
 

EARTH to the Arch & Frames:
I do not think that DC Negative is attached to the solar panel frame. How do you know that it is? Home solar installations normally require a "safety ground" a/k/a EARTH attached to the frames, then to EARTH. It is possible that some expert, somewhere, has googled this point and relayed it to you. Remember DC Negative is not EARTH, and your Amel does not have an EARTH circuit for DC Voltage. I believe that the arch is isolated from DC Positive and Negative, and if so, connecting the Arch to Amel bonding is OK, but probably not necessary. Probably more important is dissimilar metal corrosion when using stainless steel and aluminum in the same construction. I know this is probably not the case with your Emek Arch, which is stainless, but, do your panels have aluminum frames?

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970







On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 7:39 AM Nick Newington ngtnewington@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Re lightening: this subject opens a can of worms with lots of theories. You should read Nigel Calder’s book. He explains the various ideas. Personally I am not at all convinced of one argument nor another. 


 My view re potential electrolysis is that on balance every metal fitting should be linked to the bonding system, but the important ones are the sea water exposed ones like through hull fittings and sea water pumps. The idea being that there is no potential difference between any one piece of hardware and another. 

Nick (Amelia hull 019 AML 54)
On 26 Jun 2018, at 13:02, James Cromie jamescromie@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Thank you for your input and experience. I waS also not originally planning to bond the frame. Your points about the other metallic fixtures are good. However, I wonder about how this situation may be different considering the arch is holding a high voltage system. My feeling is it should not matter as long as the solar power circuit “-“ is well insulated from the housing. 


What about the potential risk related to lightening? Is this at all relevant?

Pardon my ignorance!

James


On Jun 26, 2018, at 3:42 AM, divanz620@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Interesting....

We have a stainless arch with solar panels and a wind generator on a separate mount, but none of this framework is connected to the bonding system.
I'm not sure that this is necessary.
None of the other stainless structures on the boat are connected to the bonding system.
The masts and rigging aren't, neither are the rails around the boat, nor the bow roller fitments.
I'd be interested to know what others think about this
Olivier ? Bill R ? Bill K?
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Iridium Go

Alex Ramseyer <alexramseyer@...>
 

IridiumGO has worked well on my boat. Of course there is the 2.4k bandwith limitation that comes with every Iridium connection..
Buy the external antenna and place it at a good spot where nothing disturbs the connection.
Cheers, Alex
SY NO STRESS, AMEL54

On Friday, June 22, 2018, 7:28:10 PM GMT-4, Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:


 

Agreed Kent. Now that my external antenna is working my iridium go is very good too. 

Not fast but reliable. Like my Amel. 
Porter
54-152

Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 

On Jun 22, 2018, at 10:55 AM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Pat,

I have an Iridium phone with a gadget that uses the phone to create a Bluetooth WiFi hotspot.  I use it to get weather and do email.  It was less than satisfactory until I added a permanent antenna.  Now it’s awesome...good signal, fast downloads.  Maybe the bad reviews are from people like me before my new antenna???

Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy
SM243


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] AMFA bilge pump gear sprocket broken

Porter McRoberts
 

I had the same thing happen on my Amel 54
Amel in Martinique had them 
But as I am becoming more and more intimate with machine shops and hardware stores in the Caribbean and panama  I have seen replacements commonly. 

I’d take that piston and bolt gearbox with you onto the city and I bet you’ll find either a guy who can repair it or some replacements. 

I hope that helps. 

Porter. 
A54-152

Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 

On Jun 25, 2018, at 1:13 AM, connor_barry@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi All,
Can anyone advise me how to get and repair the gear sprocket in the AMFA bilge pump on my Amel 54.
When the pump stopped working I thought it was needing the service kit, I replaced all the inner parts but then discovered that the gear sprocket had broken. The 24v electric motor is running fine. Can this nylon/plastic part be obtained and replaced?

Best Regards

Barry and Penny
“Lady Penelope II”
Amel 54. #17
Split Croatia


Re: Cam lock on main halyard?

Peter de Groot
 

Thank you Alan. The part I was missing is letting the knot go through the slot in the mast. I will experiment this weekend.
Regarding the bottom batten pocket of the main. I’m planning to get a new sail before we cruise. The leech of the current sail is not in the best of shape. I have not helped it with some of my clumsy furling. It frequently hangs up while unfurling


Re: AMFA bilge pump gear sprocket broken

Craig Briggs
 

Hi Barry and Penny,
You can get a replacement from. al Meekens at gearsmade.com.He can make it in plastic, like the original, or you can choose metal. You may also be able to fix it yourself. My repair job has lasted 10+ years and still going strong. Search my earlier posts for how to do it
Cheers, Craig Briggs SN68 Sangaris, sailing off St Marys northbound.


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Isolated grounding question - solar installation

hanspeter baettig
 

Hello James
As an Electric Engineer, I can trustful tell you. Lightening hit; has nothing to do what ever you do with your electrical/electronic installation on your boat. There is Nothing what you can do ! 
Only thanks god,  hopefully never will happen. This is the most dangerous problem with blue water sailing, specially in areas with a lot of lightening, for ex. strait of Singapure/Malasia or around everywhere in the tropics, but happens seldom. If yes, then we have a serious, costly problem,
But enyoi sailing. Cross my fingers.

kr
Hanspeter
SM 16, Tamango 2


----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----
Von : amelyachtowners@...
Datum : 26/06/2018 - 14:02 (MS)
An : amelyachtowners@...
Betreff : Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Isolated grounding question - solar installation

 

Thank you for your input and experience. I waS also not originally planning to bond the frame. Your points about the other metallic fixtures are good. However, I wonder about how this situation may be different considering the arch is holding a high voltage system. My feeling is it should not matter as long as the solar power circuit “-“ is well insulated from the housing. 


What about the potential risk related to lightening? Is this at all relevant?

Pardon my ignorance!

James


On Jun 26, 2018, at 3:42 AM, divanz620@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Interesting....

We have a stainless arch with solar panels and a wind generator on a separate mount, but none of this framework is connected to the bonding system.
I'm not sure that this is necessary.
None of the other stainless structures on the boat are connected to the bonding system.
The masts and rigging aren't, neither are the rails around the boat, nor the bow roller fitments.
I'd be interested to know what others think about this
Olivier ? Bill R ? Bill K?
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437





Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Isolated grounding question - solar installation

hanspeter baettig
 

Hello Alan
I'm not O, nor B, nor B 2 :-)
but have quit a long know how about the SM's
The Amel bonding system is unique to Amel. No other boats with similar trough hole installation, even HR, Baltic, Contest , Swan etc.
The bonding system is a help to protect maybe corrosion for metal which are in contact with saltwater. That's all about. Nothing to do with 220V grounding etc. Lots of comment , useful, in this forum.
For your arch, definitelly you don't need connetc the SS to the Amel bonding infrastructure. I hope your arch is above the sea level :-)

Hanspeter
SM 16, Tamango 2
 

----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----
Von : amelyachtowners@...
Datum : 26/06/2018 - 09:42 (MS)
An : amelyachtowners@...
Betreff : Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Isolated grounding question - solar installation

 

Interesting....

We have a stainless arch with solar panels and a wind generator on a separate mount, but none of this framework is connected to the bonding system.
I'm not sure that this is necessary.
None of the other stainless structures on the boat are connected to the bonding system.
The masts and rigging aren't, neither are the rails around the boat, nor the bow roller fitments.
I'd be interested to know what others think about this
Olivier ? Bill R ? Bill K?
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437





Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] bow thruster seal replacement

rossirossix4
 

AND...outside...run a rope through the bow thruster prop triangle and cleat to deck!
Bob KAIMI


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Isolated grounding question - solar installation

ngtnewington Newington
 

Re lightening: this subject opens a can of worms with lots of theories. You should read Nigel Calder’s book. He explains the various ideas. Personally I am not at all convinced of one argument nor another. 

 My view re potential electrolysis is that on balance every metal fitting should be linked to the bonding system, but the important ones are the sea water exposed ones like through hull fittings and sea water pumps. The idea being that there is no potential difference between any one piece of hardware and another. 

Nick (Amelia hull 019 AML 54)

On 26 Jun 2018, at 13:02, James Cromie jamescromie@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Thank you for your input and experience. I waS also not originally planning to bond the frame. Your points about the other metallic fixtures are good. However, I wonder about how this situation may be different considering the arch is holding a high voltage system. My feeling is it should not matter as long as the solar power circuit “-“ is well insulated from the housing. 


What about the potential risk related to lightening? Is this at all relevant?

Pardon my ignorance!

James


On Jun 26, 2018, at 3:42 AM, divanz620@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Interesting....

We have a stainless arch with solar panels and a wind generator on a separate mount, but none of this framework is connected to the bonding system.
I'm not sure that this is necessary.
None of the other stainless structures on the boat are connected to the bonding system.
The masts and rigging aren't, neither are the rails around the boat, nor the bow roller fitments.
I'd be interested to know what others think about this
Olivier ? Bill R ? Bill K?
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Cam lock on main halyard?

 

Peter,

Vertical battens were added by the previous owner. The SM mast is not made for vertical battens. You will likely have continued issues with then. The majority of owners who have installed vertical battens on a SM experience problems. With lots of extra care and skill, vertical battens can work, but in practical applications, many owners have reported problems. Additionally, your vertical battens may NOT match any other SM battens. The design used was up to the previous owner and the sailmaker. This is NOT true on the 54 mast which was designed by Amel for vertical battens.

Henri Amel's reason for the shortened sail halyards on both masts was to remove clutter. It makes sense because raising and lowering furling sails is not done very often. Once you get accustomed to adding the extension line, you will likely prefer it. Be sure to add the extension line before you do anything else...it is step #1.

Good luck with your new-to-you Amel.
 
Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970






On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 2:23 AM divanz620@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hello Peter again,


Regarding your batten having "broken through" the pocket...
We have a vertical battened main and the pockets are such that the batten is inserted upwards towards the leech of the sail, there is then a tail on the batten pocket with a velcro strip on it, which is pushed over the end of the batten and  into the batten pocket with a "pusher" (which is just a piece of batten shaped to fit the cap on the batten pocket tail), it should stay there...if your batten has come out, then maybe the velcro needs replacing....or the tail of the batten pocket is badly damaged and needs replacing
In any event you should probably have a sailmaker give the sail a good looking at.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Isolated grounding question - solar installation

James Cromie
 

Thank you for your input and experience. I waS also not originally planning to bond the frame. Your points about the other metallic fixtures are good. However, I wonder about how this situation may be different considering the arch is holding a high voltage system. My feeling is it should not matter as long as the solar power circuit “-“ is well insulated from the housing. 

What about the potential risk related to lightening? Is this at all relevant?

Pardon my ignorance!

James


On Jun 26, 2018, at 3:42 AM, divanz620@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Interesting....

We have a stainless arch with solar panels and a wind generator on a separate mount, but none of this framework is connected to the bonding system.
I'm not sure that this is necessary.
None of the other stainless structures on the boat are connected to the bonding system.
The masts and rigging aren't, neither are the rails around the boat, nor the bow roller fitments.
I'd be interested to know what others think about this
Olivier ? Bill R ? Bill K?
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Isolated grounding question - solar installation

Alan Leslie
 

Interesting....
We have a stainless arch with solar panels and a wind generator on a separate mount, but none of this framework is connected to the bonding system.
I'm not sure that this is necessary.
None of the other stainless structures on the boat are connected to the bonding system.
The masts and rigging aren't, neither are the rails around the boat, nor the bow roller fitments.
I'd be interested to know what others think about this
Olivier ? Bill R ? Bill K?
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Re: Cam lock on main halyard?

Alan Leslie
 

Hello Peter again,

Regarding your batten having "broken through" the pocket...
We have a vertical battened main and the pockets are such that the batten is inserted upwards towards the leech of the sail, there is then a tail on the batten pocket with a velcro strip on it, which is pushed over the end of the batten and  into the batten pocket with a "pusher" (which is just a piece of batten shaped to fit the cap on the batten pocket tail), it should stay there...if your batten has come out, then maybe the velcro needs replacing....or the tail of the batten pocket is badly damaged and needs replacing
In any event you should probably have a sailmaker give the sail a good looking at.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Re: Cam lock on main halyard?

Alan Leslie
 

Peter,
On my boat, the main halyard exits the mast and is attached to the car on the short track with a bowline. The tail of the bowline dangles below the car and ends in another bowline. The trick is to attach another long line with a bowline to that lower bowline, put the new line on the winch and winch it down slightly so that you can get the top bowline off the hook on the car. now you can release the line and feed the knots through the slot in the mast as the halyard goes up and the sail comes down.
With practice it's not hard.
If you have a ripped batten pocket it sounds like you need to take that sail to a sailmaker and have him go over it and repair any suspect spots.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] keep short poles up?

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Peter,

There was a famous new Zealand around the world racing sailor name of Peter Blake. His advice: off shore never sail close hauled, (racing or cruising) crack sheets and enjoy the better sea motion, speed and comfort, because the wind will change. Put it another way, don't fight to stay on the rhumb line take the easier passage, the wind will change. I'm talking long inter-island passages and trans ocean stuff. As a fervent erstwhile racing yachtsman it took me quite a while to come to grips with this. Against all my instincts, but I promise you PB was right. Back to the towels or soft leather protectors on the poles. With the best will in the world there will be times when your sail will make contact. Why not apply this simple protection. Makes more sense than wear patches on the sail.

Kind Regards

Danny Simms

On 26 June 2018 at 15:16 "pandmdegroot@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Hi Danny,
Thanks for your reply.  I'm still in the familiarization stage with the SM doing weekend off shore day sailing.  We're beating upwind for a relatively short down wind sail (heading back to the coast)  Recently I was leaving the short poles up to make it quicker, easier for the down wind leg.
When we head to Mexico (hopefully 2020) we'll  make judgments based on longer periods of relatively consistent wind direction.  I may revisit the towel or leather idea at that time.  For now the poles will be coming down.

Thanks
Peter de Groot
La Querida SM207

 


 


 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] keep short poles up?

Peter de Groot
 

Hi Danny,
Thanks for your reply.  I'm still in the familiarization stage with the SM doing weekend off shore day sailing.  We're beating upwind for a relatively short down wind sail (heading back to the coast)  Recently I was leaving the short poles up to make it quicker, easier for the down wind leg.
When we head to Mexico (hopefully 2020) we'll  make judgments based on longer periods of relatively consistent wind direction.  I may revisit the towel or leather idea at that time.  For now the poles will be coming down.

Thanks
Peter de Groot
La Querida SM207


Cam lock on main halyard?

Peter de Groot
 

Another beginners question:

During our last outing on La Querida (SM 207) upon deploying, the middle vertical batten on the mail sail had broke through the pocket and was dangling 3/4 out.  Seas were moderate and the wind was averaging 15 knots.  I was attempting to rescue the batten and had to untie the Alpine butterfly loop (lineman's loop) on the main halyard in order to lower it where the batten was within reach.  This knot was at the limit of my out-stretched arms, and difficult to untie in that position.  I was finally able to untie the knot and drop the halyard.  Batten rescued! (the complete sequence was: unfurl, detect problem, partial furl, untie knot on halyard, unfurl, lower halyard. rescue batten, etc.)


 OK that got me concerned....what if it was really rough?  What if there was some other malfunction (where furling was not an option) that required dropping the main quickly.....

I was recalling the camlocks on the halyards on the race boats I used to crew an wondering if that wouldn't be a reasonable option for the SM.


Has anyone considered or installed another method to secure the main halyard other than the pinned slide on the track?  Is there a better knot that releases quickly while working at the limit of ones reach?  Or is this beginner missing something else that's obvious?


Thanks in advance,

Peter de Groot

La Querida #207

Moss Landing, CA 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] bow thruster seal replacement

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi. If you mean the seal at the top of the bow thruster case where the tube enters the boat. Easy, with care so long as your thruster isn't rusted to the motor .Doesn't take long.  Put a large jubilee clamp around the tube tightly before you separate it from the motor. You need a second clamp to swap with as you go through the process.

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

On 25 June 2018 at 16:35 "sailunavida@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

How hard is it to replace the up position seal to stop leaking while underway on SM 2000? In the water?

 


 


 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] keep short poles up?

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi,

Have to agree with Bill Kinney. However it comes down to how long you will be going to windward and when you next need the poles.Do you want to go through the process of putting them up and down often. This can be needed in lumpy sea. It requires care being on deck handling poles in a seaway. I wrap and tape an old towel around the knuckle of the pole if I want to leave them up. I have often thought (but never done) of having soft leather boots made to lace over the knuckles. I think it would be a worthy addition.

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

On 25 June 2018 at 15:37 "greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

NO...


Like Bill R said, and f or another reason...

If you leave the short poles up you can not trim the genoa in tight enough to sail upwind well.  That last 2 or 3 inches will make a HUGE difference in your pointing ability!  Seriously, 10 degrees or more.  

When you are trying to work upwind, details matter.  This is one of the details!

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA


---In amelyachtowners@..., <brouse@...> wrote :

NO.

You will likely chafe your genoa on the elbows of the short pole when close hauled.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970






On Sun, Jun 24, 2018 at 7:12 PM pandmdegroot@... [amelyachtowners] < amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

 

Greetings all,

I have been the owner of SM hull 207 now "la Querida"  formerly "Liebling" for about one year now.  We've been doing weekend off shore sailing based out of Moss Landing, California. The last month we've been working on downwind sailing using the poles, so I've been leaving the short poles in place.

Well today, the jib ripped (tore) on the part of the short pole outboard of the shrouds.  We were doing a routine tack, and the sail was backwinded with some pressure against the shrouds and short pole end.  Upon releasing the sheet we heard the awful ripping sound.

Upon examining the pole end's outside surfaces none were particularly sharp, although the pin was oriented cotter pin outboard.  The ends of the cotter pin were recessed behind the pin end. For me, there were no obvious offending snag points, or sharp edges.

I'm not sure of the age of the jib (130%) but 6 months ago a local sail shop re-covered the leech and foot and said the rest of the sail was in good condition.


So my questions to the group are:

1.  Do you leave the short poles up when not doing downwind sailing?

2.  If the short poles do stay up, is there some additional protection you can recommend.


BTW.  We're loving the SM.  We've been working on upwind and downwind sailing with no autohelm, and no human inputs, just tuning the sails.  She behaves remarkably well.


Thanks in advance,  I read almost all the posts and really appreciate the knowledge,experience and helpfulness of the contributors.

 

 


 


 

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