Date   

Fresh Water Leak At Aft Head

pacificcool@...
 

I have SM 141 from 1995.  My current problem is a fresh water leak somewhere in the aft head.  Some time back I noticed that there was a fresh water accumulation in the cavity under the entrance to the aft head.  This is where you can access the head sea cock and where the drain hose from the shower pan passes through going forward.  I was able to confirm that the leak is not from the shower drain hose aft end where it attaches to the shower pan.  So the only other place could be where the drain hose passes through the forward wall of the cavity.  Unfortunately this is very difficult to access.  I was eventually able to put another clamp on the hose and tighten it. 


To isolate the source of the leak I stopped using the aft head completely to determine if that would eliminate the water accumulation.  However, it did not and a large amount of fresh water accumulated in the cavity again.  This time it was much cleaner which led me to believe it must be coming from the hot or cold fresh water supply lines.  But I cannot see how a leaking fresh water supply line would have a path to allow water to enter the cavity in front of the head door.  I turned off the fresh water pump to determine if that would stop the leak.  If yes, then it would confirm that the leak is from one of the supply lines.  But that would not explain how it gets into the cavity. 


One possibility is that there is a leak of one of the fresh water supply lines that leaks into the shower pan and then leaks out where the shower pan drain line exits the cavity at the forward end (where it’s difficult to access).  Unfortunately, I’m not at the boat now so cannot determine if turning off the fresh water pump stopped the leak.  But I’m pretty sure it must have.

If anyone recognizes this scenario, please advise.  I suppose I will have to disassemble the sink to see where the leak is and then replace the shower pan drain hose.  The problem is how to replace the drain hose given how difficult it is to access the forward end.  Any suggestions are welcome.  I will be flying back to the boat in a week. 


Regards,

Bill Shaproski

S/V Pacific Cool



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat

Mohammad Shirloo
 

Reudi;
 
The main reason to run the Genset while using the bow thruster is not to reduce the load on the batteries. Putting out 400-500A for short bursts will not have a significant negative effect on the batteries.
 
By running the Genset you are maintaining a higher voltage to the bow thruster, reducing the current requirement and thus reducing the heat generated in the bow thruster and all associated wiring supplying the bow thruster. This will maximize the time the bow thruster will function before the thermal cutoff kicks in.  Therefore for us it is not a calculation of battery vs. generator life, but an issue of safety. A few extra seconds of bow thruster availability may make a big difference in the result of the maneuver.
 
Respectfully;
Mohammad Shirloo
323-633-2222 Cell
310-644-0908 Fax
 



From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2018 8:32 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat

 

Thanks for all your thoughtful responses. This is a great forum and I have learned a lot within a short time about AMEL. I love it!

Here some comments on your responses: 

I’m not using the bow truster more than 5-6 seconds per burst. When I use it, I’m carefully not to overdue and I usualy waiting to cool down a bit between 2 burst. Thats why I was wondering how fast it was paused by the system….

No, I don’t use generator while use the bow truster, as AMEL and many others recommending. I agree with Thomas about it. 
- In one hand the Engine is running always when use the BT and is supporting the batteries as well . 
- On the other hand I do not extensively use the BT so my Batteries should be able to carry the load. 

- AND most important; I don’t want to shorten the live of my GenSet just to help the batteries a bit.
In my opinion is; The live of a Diesel engine is shorten by too many short usage without much load and without running it at leased 30min at a time. When I turn the GenSet on, I use it for many things at the time, Laundry, Water-maker, heater, charging, whatsoever. Therefore it runs at leased an hour when it’s on.

BTW: 
We don’t had the 425A fuse on #55 either. Olivier recommended to install it and also an emergency shutoff in the BT compartment . So we did. ;-)

Fair winds!
Ruedi 
WASABI A54/55
Kithnos

Von: <amelyachtowners@...> on behalf of "'S/V Garulfo' svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Antworten an: <amelyachtowners@...>
Datum: Donnerstag, 28. Juni 2018 um 13:33
An: <amelyachtowners@...>
Betreff: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat

 

Hi Mohammad and Aty,

So you don't have that 425A fuse on Kokomo?
It'd be interesting to have other data points. 

When we started seeing A54s for sale, someone from the yard in Hyères told us Amel started to fit the emergency disconnect on 54s  after instances of incidents where the bow thruster wouldn't stop. The thermal switch should provide that safety stop, but maybe they felt there should be a manual override too, in case.

By the way, it was in the same sentence as "have the genset running when you use the bow thruster" that raised a few eyebrows in this group a while back. At the time, not knowing better, I took it for granted. Sufficient and safe, yes. Necessary?, I'm not sure. We don't do it anymore as we don't go to marinas that much and when we do, we try to play the game of least-bow-thruster-usage to improve our handling skills, and our batteries can handle the high current discharge.


Fair winds!

Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Curacao



On Thu, 28 Jun 2018 at 05:38, 'Mohammad Shirloo' mshirloo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Thomas;
 
Your fuse may have been added on because I've heard some surveyors and insurance companies regard this situation as unsafe and will require the fuse to be added. I'm pretty sure that we were told by Olivier during our survey that the bow thruster is directly connected to the batteries. When I inquired about the reason, I believe the response was that Amel felt that the safety of the boat, when absolutely needing the bow thruster to be operational, was more important than the possibility of the bow thruster being damaged due to overuse.
 
The emergency disconnect is a manually operated switch which would require intervention form a person to stop current flowing to the bow thruster.
 
Respectfully;
Mohammad and Aty
B&B Kokomo
Amel 54 #099
 


From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 2:01 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat

 


Hi Mohammad,

On Garulfo (54-122) there is also a 425A fuse on the positive cable and an emergency disconnect (big red button), both housed in the box inside the forward locker. 

I recently found the emergency disconnect to be rusted frozen so it's on the list for replacement. 

I would encourage others to test the emergency disconnect as it has a carbon steel backing plate and is mounted without any kind of waterproofing so is bound to rust. 

Fair winds,

Thomas 
GARULFO
A54-122
Curacao 


On Wed, 27 Jun 2018 at 19:27, 'Mohammad Shirloo' mshirloo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hello Reudi;
 
Yes, the Amel 54 has a thermal cutoff to prevent damage to the thruster as well as continuous high current draw (Around 550 Amps at 24V) which could lead to fire on board. We've had the thermal cutoff kick in  only a couple of times and it has reset in a matter of minutes. We have not timed the exact reset duration.
 
I'm not aware of any adjustments in the thermal cutoff. The bow thruster has a direct connection to the batteries without a breaker. The thermal cutoff is the only safety items preventing major damage to the thruster and/or wiring.
 
Try to use the thruster in bursts (less than 15 seconds), as much as possible, so it has time to cool down between usage. We try to over correct a bit when we use use the BT so as the bow falls off, the BT has more time to cool.
 
Respectfully;
Mohammad Shirloo
323-633-2222 Cell
310-644-0908 Fax
 


From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 9:58 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...


Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat


 

Dear Forum

On my Amel-54 I discovered that the bow truster stops working after repeatingly use within 10-15 min timeframe.

I used the bow truster a bit more than usual when I practiced some manouvers first time; - and on a second occation when I had to manouver in a marina with a lot of windguests of 18+ kn and another chain over my Anker...

It stopped working and after a while (maybe 10 min.) it re-started & operated normaly. I know BT Is not made for constant use, - only few seconds at a time. Then wait and re-use another time.

Question from a beginner:

Does the bow truster has a termic fuse which is activated after some time of usage to save the motor from overheating? 

Does anyone know exactly how it works and if this can be adjusted because I think the BT on Wasabi switches of quite fast. Any ideas or other information?

Best regards

Ruedi

SY Wasabi A54#55

Sailing Cyclades GR.




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat

Rudolf Waldispuehl
 

Thanks for all your thoughtful responses. This is a great forum and I have learned a lot within a short time about AMEL. I love it!

Here some comments on your responses: 

I’m not using the bow truster more than 5-6 seconds per burst. When I use it, I’m carefully not to overdue and I usualy waiting to cool down a bit between 2 burst. Thats why I was wondering how fast it was paused by the system….

No, I don’t use generator while use the bow truster, as AMEL and many others recommending. I agree with Thomas about it. 
- In one hand the Engine is running always when use the BT and is supporting the batteries as well . 
- On the other hand I do not extensively use the BT so my Batteries should be able to carry the load. 

- AND most important; I don’t want to shorten the live of my GenSet just to help the batteries a bit.
In my opinion is; The live of a Diesel engine is shorten by too many short usage without much load and without running it at leased 30min at a time. When I turn the GenSet on, I use it for many things at the time, Laundry, Water-maker, heater, charging, whatsoever. Therefore it runs at leased an hour when it’s on.

BTW: 
We don’t had the 425A fuse on #55 either. Olivier recommended to install it and also an emergency shutoff in the BT compartment . So we did. ;-)

Fair winds!
Ruedi 
WASABI A54/55
Kithnos

Von: <amelyachtowners@...> on behalf of "'S/V Garulfo' svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Antworten an: <amelyachtowners@...>
Datum: Donnerstag, 28. Juni 2018 um 13:33
An: <amelyachtowners@...>
Betreff: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat

 

Hi Mohammad and Aty,

So you don't have that 425A fuse on Kokomo?
It'd be interesting to have other data points. 

When we started seeing A54s for sale, someone from the yard in Hyères told us Amel started to fit the emergency disconnect on 54s  after instances of incidents where the bow thruster wouldn't stop. The thermal switch should provide that safety stop, but maybe they felt there should be a manual override too, in case.

By the way, it was in the same sentence as "have the genset running when you use the bow thruster" that raised a few eyebrows in this group a while back. At the time, not knowing better, I took it for granted. Sufficient and safe, yes. Necessary?, I'm not sure. We don't do it anymore as we don't go to marinas that much and when we do, we try to play the game of least-bow-thruster-usage to improve our handling skills, and our batteries can handle the high current discharge.


Fair winds!

Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Curacao



On Thu, 28 Jun 2018 at 05:38, 'Mohammad Shirloo' mshirloo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Thomas;
 
Your fuse may have been added on because I've heard some surveyors and insurance companies regard this situation as unsafe and will require the fuse to be added. I'm pretty sure that we were told by Olivier during our survey that the bow thruster is directly connected to the batteries. When I inquired about the reason, I believe the response was that Amel felt that the safety of the boat, when absolutely needing the bow thruster to be operational, was more important than the possibility of the bow thruster being damaged due to overuse.
 
The emergency disconnect is a manually operated switch which would require intervention form a person to stop current flowing to the bow thruster.
 
Respectfully;
Mohammad and Aty
B&B Kokomo
Amel 54 #099
 


From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 2:01 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat

 


Hi Mohammad,

On Garulfo (54-122) there is also a 425A fuse on the positive cable and an emergency disconnect (big red button), both housed in the box inside the forward locker. 

I recently found the emergency disconnect to be rusted frozen so it's on the list for replacement. 

I would encourage others to test the emergency disconnect as it has a carbon steel backing plate and is mounted without any kind of waterproofing so is bound to rust. 

Fair winds,

Thomas 
GARULFO
A54-122
Curacao 


On Wed, 27 Jun 2018 at 19:27, 'Mohammad Shirloo' mshirloo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hello Reudi;
 
Yes, the Amel 54 has a thermal cutoff to prevent damage to the thruster as well as continuous high current draw (Around 550 Amps at 24V) which could lead to fire on board. We've had the thermal cutoff kick in  only a couple of times and it has reset in a matter of minutes. We have not timed the exact reset duration.
 
I'm not aware of any adjustments in the thermal cutoff. The bow thruster has a direct connection to the batteries without a breaker. The thermal cutoff is the only safety items preventing major damage to the thruster and/or wiring.
 
Try to use the thruster in bursts (less than 15 seconds), as much as possible, so it has time to cool down between usage. We try to over correct a bit when we use use the BT so as the bow falls off, the BT has more time to cool.
 
Respectfully;
Mohammad Shirloo
323-633-2222 Cell
310-644-0908 Fax
 


From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 9:58 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...


Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat


 

Dear Forum

On my Amel-54 I discovered that the bow truster stops working after repeatingly use within 10-15 min timeframe.

I used the bow truster a bit more than usual when I practiced some manouvers first time; - and on a second occation when I had to manouver in a marina with a lot of windguests of 18+ kn and another chain over my Anker..

It stopped working and after a while (maybe 10 min.) it re-started & operated normaly. I know BT Is not made for constant use, - only few seconds at a time. Then wait and re-use another time.

Question from a beginner:

Does the bow truster has a termic fuse which is activated after some time of usage to save the motor from overheating? 

Does anyone know exactly how it works and if this can be adjusted because I think the BT on Wasabi switches of quite fast. Any ideas or other information?

Best regards

Ruedi

SY Wasabi A54#55

Sailing Cyclades GR.




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel 54 Foresail furlers

Porter McRoberts
 

I did this in January. New furlers from Paul at a great discount. Installed in Fort Lauderdale with Nance and Underwood. It’s very reassuring to have renewed confidence in the boat. The possibility of furling issues really debases 
what the boat is all about.   The furlers themselves are bullet proof.... so far. 

The additional issues: no belt changes, retained value of the boat when you sell it, esthetically improved, new seals and a better seal design. 

I hope this nudges anyone on the fence. 

Porter

A54-152 IBIS. 
Panama City 




Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 

On Jun 29, 2018, at 9:37 AM, 'Mohammad Shirloo' mshirloo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hello Arno;
 
The offer through Paul is available until 6/30/18. We have just ordered two of them.
 
In our analysis and talking to others who have installed them, it made sense to do it now. The pricing offered is well below retail.
 
Respectfully;
Mohammad Shirloo
323-633-2222 Cell
310-644-0908 Fax
 


From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2018 2:45 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel 54 Foresail furlers

 

Arno,

As per Q1 2018 original 2017 offer was NO longer available; a new (higher priced) proposal  was made via

Paul Hrabowsky

Bamar North American & Carribean Distributor

604.728.7445

paul@...

  

which I understand has now expired as well.

Best Regards Teun

AMELIT  54 – 128

NOUMEA NEW CALEDONIA

Jun 29, 2018   20:43:46

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2018 1:26 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel 54 Foresail furlers

 

Hi Forum,

A while ago I noticed a conversation about getting new furlers for the Amel 54 at a group rate. Does someone know what the actual state of this initiative is?

Thanks,

Arno Luijten


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: A54 Sleipner bowthruster uneven brush wear

Sv Garulfo
 

Hi Peter and all,
Attached pictures of the 4 relays we currently have installed on our A54.
We couldn't find any references for the brushes. Pls let us know if you have made any progress on this since your last email.

Thanks
Regards
Soraya
GARULFO, A54-122


On 16 June 2018 at 14:11, Peter Forbes ppsforbes@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

This forum is just amazing - I have have just had the same problem [Bow Thruster] (lots of carbon dust and therefore probably worn out brushes) not the one side thrust (but that’s interesting too). On Carango A 54#035.


Can anyone tell me the part number or description of the relays I should have as spares (I am away from boat for now) and also the part number or dimensions of the brushes which I am sure need replacement.

I presume the springs have to be removed to change the brushes?. Quite a fiddle job as the screws are so small with large hole beneath and some on the aft, difficult to see side of the motor,

Thank you

Peter
Pete Forbes
Carango 
River Azul South Brittany, France


Peter Forbes
00447836 209730

On 7 Jun 2018, at 01:41, Bill Rouse brouse@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Thanks for the details.


Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www..amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

On Wed, Jun 6, 2018, 12:54 'S/V Garulfo' svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Hi Bill and 54 owners,

The issue with the Port-only-thrusting was resolved by removing and dismantling the double-solenoid power relay. After cleaning the contacts with sandpaper and corrosionX-ing the springs, it functioned correctly again. The issue was confusing because each relay would behave correctly independently (connecting the top posts and disconnecting the bottom ones) but activating the starboard one would cause the other one to loose its bottom (idle) connection(!). 

Some more info I gathered in the meantime:

* The front relay (red and blue wires) is activated for starboard operation. The back relay (red and grey wires) for port. 
* Power cables are marked A1, A2, D1, D2. A1 and A2 are the stator posts, D1 and D2 are the rotor bobin posts.
* the rotor and stator circuits are in series.. The voltage of the rotor is reversed depending on direction. 
* A1 is permanently connected to batteries Neg. A2, D1 and D2 are controlled by the relays. 
* on idle, A2, D1 and D2 are connected together. 
* on Starboard, the front relay connects D2 to batteries Pos (top posts). A2 and D1 are still connected by the bottom posts of the back relay. Circuit is: Pos=D2-rotor-D1=A2-stator-A1=Neg
* on Port, the back relay connects D1 to batteries Pos (top posts). A2 and D2 are still connected by the bottom posts of the front relay. Circuit is: Pos=D1-rotor-D2=A2-stator-A1=Neg

Hope that will help,

Fair winds and happy thrusting

(Oh, and the ground circuit leak got resolved too in the operation. Not sure exactly how, but it did)

Thomas
GARULFO
AMEL 54 #122
Bonaire 


On Mon, 28 May 2018 at 21:43, S/V Garulfo <svgarulfo@...> wrote:
Hi Bill,

I agree the motor is probably fine, as it can run in one direction. 
I can hear the big Albright double-solenoid motor-reversing contactor click for both starboard and port operation. So joystick is innocent.

I think i know what 4 relays you mean (in the plastic junction box) but didn't foresee they played a part in the thrusting operation. I assumed it was only the raising/lowering of the thruster, and that my problem was closer to the Side-Power unit. 

I measured voltage on the Albright contactor posts in port/starboard/idle operation to see if I can reverse engineer what is supposed to happen to the 4 power cables going into the motor.. Need to look at the results with a fresh pair of eyes in the morning. And maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree.


Thanks as always,


Thomas 
GARULFO
AMEL 54 #122
Bonaire 

On Mon, 28 May 2018 at 21:02, Bill Rouse brouse@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Thomas,

It is probably not the motor and is either the joystick or one of the 4 relays. 

Eliminate the joystick first.... 

It is unlikely that your relays are numbered because out of about 10 54s, I have only seen 1 with numbered relays, but they are all the same relay. If all 54s are wired the same, I think it will be relay #2, but, if you have a spare relay, it is easy enough to replace them one at a time until you find the culprit. Of course the problem can be corrosion between the relay terminals and the female spade connectors.

If I owned a 54, I would have 4 spare relays.

Good Luck!

On Mon, May 28, 2018 at 4:22 PM, 'S/V Garulfo' svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Hi Scott,

Talking of the devil...

I haven't looked into the carbon dust and brushes yet, cause I reconnected the thruster for a quick stop in a marina and after the initial 'all-good' tests, it decided to only thrust to port and not starboard....
So I've got a second issue to troubleshoot. If anyone has experienced it and has clues, it's very welcome.. 

I'll check the state of the brushes for uneven wear too, to give you another data point.. 
Note that i don't have an oil reservoir in my unit.


Fair winds to all,

Thomas
GARULFO
AMEL 54 #122
Bonaire 

On Mon, 28 May 2018 at 05:54, cpp_berkeley <no_reply@...> wrote:

Craig,


Answers to your questions below:

1) After we let it cool down (~30 minutes) it ran fine. Perhaps a bit weaker but that's probably to be expected considering that some of the brushes have worn down considerably and actually even cracked, exposing just bare conductors. My fear is that going forward, it will continue to overheat prematurely and leave us without a bow thruster when we most need it.

2) The sidepower bowthruster has a drain plug underwater between the two props and a fill reservoir in the bow locker. Obviously oil is changed on the hard. My understanding is that the way to change the oil is to open the plug and continue filling the reservoir until the oil coming out of the plug looks clean. That way, you don't get air into the system.

The mechanic drained all of the oil and he put the plug back and filled the reservoir. The next day, the oil level had dropped, indicating that the air migrated upwards (and/or the thick oil slowly migrated downwards). This drop in oil level continued for a few days. It seems reasonably stable now, but I'm unsure whether some air was still stuck in the gearleg and never made its way out..


Also, we now have a strong "Mass -" leak. Thomas of S/V Garulfo posted that he had a bow thruster leak, possibly from carbon dust. I'll go check that now and report back.

But in general, any idea why the carbon brushes would be wearing so unevenly?


Scott

A54 #69 

S/V Tengah 



Hi Scott,

Your post raises a couple of questions. 
1. You say the unit had a thermal shutdown - did it work after it cooled  down?  Any problems?
2. In what way did the mechanic have trouble getting air out of the system? On the SN and SM one simply turns the bottom section upside down to drain and then pours in new oil. No issue with air. Perhaps the 54 is a different design that I'm not familiar with.

Craig



Hi all,


I was coming into the quay at Zante yesterday in our A54 with about 10-15 knots on the beam and used the sidepower bow thruster in 10-15 second bursts and all of the sudden, thermal shutdown!


After executing an exciting no thruster stern-to med mooring into a tight spot (with expectant spectators!) I opened up the bow thruster compartment to see a lot of carbon dust. I took the motor cover off and inspected the brushes and found that for each of the pairs (4 pairs, 8 total brushes), one was worn MUCH more than the other one. On some pairs, it's the top one that was worn more, on some, it was the bottom one. Some brushes were down to loose wire.


On the attached photo, you can see the extent of the uneven wear for one pair.


We recently had the boatyard change the bowthruster oil and they drained it all before adding new oil, which resulted in challenges getting all the air out of the system. We then completed a 1350 mile passage. These probably have nothing to do with it, but maybe I'm wrong.


Before I go out and spend money to replace the brushes and possibly experience similar uneven wear, anyone have any ideas as to why this happened and how to rectify it?


Thanks!


Scott

A54 #69 

S/V Tengah 



 




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel 54 Foresail furlers

Mohammad Shirloo
 

Hello Arno;
 
The offer through Paul is available until 6/30/18. We have just ordered two of them.
 
In our analysis and talking to others who have installed them, it made sense to do it now. The pricing offered is well below retail.
 
Respectfully;
Mohammad Shirloo
323-633-2222 Cell
310-644-0908 Fax
 



From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2018 2:45 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel 54 Foresail furlers

 

Arno,

As per Q1 2018 original 2017 offer was NO longer available; a new (higher priced) proposal  was made via

Paul Hrabowsky

Bamar North American & Carribean Distributor

604.728.7445

paul@...

  

which I understand has now expired as well.

Best Regards Teun

AMELIT  54 – 128

NOUMEA NEW CALEDONIA

Jun 29, 2018   20:43:46

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2018 1:26 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel 54 Foresail furlers

 

Hi Forum,

A while ago I noticed a conversation about getting new furlers for the Amel 54 at a group rate. Does someone know what the actual state of this initiative is?

Thanks,

Arno Luijten


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Frigoboat re-charging

Craig Briggs
 

Paul,

In addition to Ian's excellent info, you'll want to be sure to install a new dryer each time you open/evacuate the system, especially with your moisture issue. Since Ian didn't mention it, I'm guessing your units may have had Frigoboat's pre-charged freon lines with no drier, but since you're opening the system for evacuation it's critical to install one - very simple and $25.. (I've got Northern Lights refrigeration which doesn't use pre-charged lines, so a drier is standard.)

Cheers, Craig Briggs, SN68 Sangaris, Brunswick, GA


---In amelyachtowners@..., <sharongbrown@...> wrote :

Ian,

Thanks for the detailed info - that's a great help. The 54 has a Frigoboat with connectors for both high & low pressure. It does seem then that I have a blockage then. I'm in Antigua so finding a vacuum pump at reasonable price may be a bit challenging. If I do find one, then what is the procedure to use it? I assume I connect to the service port in the manifold (the centre one), but then which side do I open - high or low?

Cheers,
Paul


Re: Amel 54 Foresail furlers

Arno Luijten
 

Hi Teun,

Thanks for that.

How is your new yacht treating you?
Did you get the new furlers?

Regards,

Arno


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel 54 Foresail furlers

Teun BAAS
 

Arno,

 

As per Q1 2018 original 2017 offer was NO longer available; a new (higher priced) proposal  was made via

 

Paul Hrabowsky

Bamar North American & Carribean Distributor

604.728.7445

paul@...

  

which I understand has now expired as well.

 

Best Regards Teun

AMELIT  54 – 128

NOUMEA NEW CALEDONIA

 

Jun 29, 2018   20:43:46

 

 

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2018 1:26 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel 54 Foresail furlers

 

 

Hi Forum,

 

A while ago I noticed a conversation about getting new furlers for the Amel 54 at a group rate. Does someone know what the actual state of this initiative is?

 

Thanks,

 

Arno Luijten


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: SM Batteries

Alan Leslie
 

Hi Colin,
I'm humbled by your reply...I'm no expert but I try to learn from others and research before I make any changes
I'm sure from experience that overcharging batteries is as big a killer as undercharging. It all needs to be balanced.
And it seems to me that everything may seem fine for a while and then batteries suddenly fail because .?..
Your 300W solar direct to the batteries would have been the killer I'm sure....maybe you would have survived if you hadn't connected to shore power?
Everything needs to be regulated.....perhaps you need a solar mppt with bigger capacity do you can coonnectall the solar through it?
With our 6v AGMs one thing I did that seems to have maintained status quo was to wire in battery balancers on each bank to ensure that the voltage across each 6V battery was the same..we have 3 of them one for each series bank..I bought them from a chinese co. on alibaba...4 years out we see no loss in capacity...yet
I have to say I'm impressed with how far you've traveled since your start...well done mate.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437 Vuda Pt Fiji


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: SM Batteries

Colin - ex SV Island Pearl
 

Hi Alan

Thank you very much for your ever generous and excellent advice as usual.

I will do exactly as you have done once again. It has been great to be a year or so behind you on this site, and to copy much of what you have done ahead of us.

Trying to think through how 300w of direct wired solar could cook a 450amp robust Trojan battery bank?? A German cruiser friend (pretty technical guy/ enginer) advised me to do that as the output ftom 300w solar was well below 10% of battery bank...

BUT this has been the first marina since where we have plugged in to shore power for more than one day. So whilst cruising all was fine. I assumed the Victron Inv/charger would sense those extra amps trickling in and stop charging ... which it does ... BUT ... I guess if tge Charger had already got tge banks to 100% and then on a bright sunny day tge 300w solar just kept pushing it up and up.

When I returned to the boat late afternoon after 4 days away the Link was showing 29v and +69.5 amps over 100%!!

Do you think that is how this could have ocurred?

PS I should add that it was well over 25kts those days too and one of our Rutland1200's wind gens was on however that is usually pretty good at shutting down when charge is up.


On Fri, 29 Jun. 2018, 05:22 divanz620@... [amelyachtowners], <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Colin,


There's probably little doubt that attaching the extra 300W of solar directly to your battery bank did them more harm than good. The constant 28.8V from the alternator doesn't help either if you do long periods of motoring.

Our 12 x 6V AGM batteries came with charging ranges Absorption 7.25 - 7.45V, Float 6.8 - 6.9V.
I opted for the middle of the range so for 4 in series as a 24V system, we have Absorption 29.4V and float 27.4V.
All our charging systems (Engine Alt, Solar, D400 wind, Victron 100A and Promariner 30A) are set to those voltages and all bar the D400 wind generator have a battery temperature input, so those voltages vary depending on the temperature of the batteries.

Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Isolated grounding question - solar installation

ngtnewington Newington
 


Just a thought on bonding the solar frame. If it is bonded then no static will build up as it will be drained. This could reduce radio interference. Apart from that I can not see any real advantage.
Nick (Amelia hull19 54)


On 28 Jun 2018, at 03:25, James Cromie jamescromie@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Thank you all for your thoughtful responses.  I find this forum to be one of the great aspects of owning an Amel.  In the short time I have owned my own Amel, I have gained such a tremendous amount of knowledge and understanding just from the ongoing discourse on this forum.  


As far as the solar panel arch and panels:  yes, my panels do have an aluminum frame.  I might use G-10 insulation at the mounting points of the aluminum solar panel frames to the steel arch, but it seems as though there is no strong argument to connect the arch to the bonding system.  
I will tackle this project in another two weeks and hopefully post some photos of the installation… always interested in the critique from those more experienced than myself while I’m on this incredibly steep learning curve!

Best,
James
Soteria SM2K 347
Portsmouth, RI


On Jun 26, 2018, at 12:16 PM, Bill Rouse brouse@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


James,

I believe that if you assembled an expert panel to discuss this issue consisting of Nigel Calder, Henri Amel, Joe Dwyer (lightning expert), the best marine surveyors, and others, the shining star on that panel would be Henri Amel. Sure, that belief is personal and could be argued. Maybe what cannot be argued on this issue is that more design, effort, and money is has been but into each Amel Yacht during the last 20 years than any other builder of production pleasure yachts. I personally have had issues with a few Nigel Calder doctrines, but I can understand when he write these as "one-fits-all-boats" he certainly can be a little 'Off" on one design/boat.

From personal experience:
I do not believe that bonding is required on the arch of a SM anymore than its life rail, standing rigging and masts...they are not bonded by Amel, so Henri Amel agrees. My guess is, that as unpredictable as lightning is, it 
almost always strikes the masts. 
​BTW, ​
I am thankful for the carbon fiber masts...they make excellent lightning rods. I have twice experienced lightning strikes in anchorages where "unpredictable lightning" struck boat
​s​
with a carbon fiber mast
​s​
, and left all the rest of us mostly untouched.


Little side note: After Henri died, the management of Amel decided to add some things 
to the Amel bonding system
​ ​
like standing rigging and life rail
​. I wonder whose research they used, or maybe they thought it is easier to bond, than to explain? I will never know the answer to that question.​
 

EARTH to the Arch & Frames:
I do not think that DC Negative is attached to the solar panel frame. How do you know that it is? Home solar installations normally require a "safety ground" a/k/a EARTH attached to the frames, then to EARTH. It is possible that some expert, somewhere, has googled this point and relayed it to you. Remember DC Negative is not EARTH, and your Amel does not have an EARTH circuit for DC Voltage. I believe that the arch is isolated from DC Positive and Negative, and if so, connecting the Arch to Amel bonding is OK, but probably not necessary. Probably more important is dissimilar metal corrosion when using stainless steel and aluminum in the same construction. I know this is probably not the case with your Emek Arch, which is stainless, but, do your panels have aluminum frames?

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970







On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 7:39 AM Nick Newington ngtnewington@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Re lightening: this subject opens a can of worms with lots of theories. You should read Nigel Calder’s book. He explains the various ideas. Personally I am not at all convinced of one argument nor another. 


 My view re potential electrolysis is that on balance every metal fitting should be linked to the bonding system, but the important ones are the sea water exposed ones like through hull fittings and sea water pumps. The idea being that there is no potential difference between any one piece of hardware and another. 

Nick (Amelia hull 019 AML 54)
On 26 Jun 2018, at 13:02, James Cromie jamescromie@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Thank you for your input and experience. I waS also not originally planning to bond the frame. Your points about the other metallic fixtures are good. However, I wonder about how this situation may be different considering the arch is holding a high voltage system. My feeling is it should not matter as long as the solar power circuit “-“ is well insulated from the housing. 


What about the potential risk related to lightening? Is this at all relevant?

Pardon my ignorance!

James


On Jun 26, 2018, at 3:42 AM, divanz620@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Interesting....

We have a stainless arch with solar panels and a wind generator on a separate mount, but none of this framework is connected to the bonding system.
I'm not sure that this is necessary.
None of the other stainless structures on the boat are connected to the bonding system.
The masts and rigging aren't, neither are the rails around the boat, nor the bow roller fitments.
I'd be interested to know what others think about this
Olivier ? Bill R ? Bill K?
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437







Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: SM Batteries

karkauai
 

Great, thanks Mark.  I’ve already ordered from them and should be able to pick up when I get back from NC in 2 wks.  Great idea to use battery cases to check the fit.  I didn’t know you could do that, so made some cardboard ones to do the same.  I’ll have them load tested before I take them.

Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy

On Jun 28, 2018, at 6:31 PM, mfmcgovern@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent,


I don't know where you are planning on getting your batteries from but I highly recommend that you check this local Annapolis place for before you buy anything:  https://www.stevensbattery.com/

The owner is a boater and very knowledgeable.  They have great customer service and pricing.  They have a ton of batteries in stock but they turn them over quickly.  Last year I purchased 12 x Deka Marine Master DC31DT for a lower price than I could find anywhere on the internet when factoring in shipping cost - somewhere around $120 each.  I bought them in September of 2017 and the stickers on them show that they were manufactured in July of 2017.  They also load tested each one of them for me before loading them into my car so I knew that I was not getting a "dud".  

Last, they let a friend of mine borrow some empty 6v battery cases so that he could mock up his battery bank to see how many batteries he can fit.  They would likely let you do the same if you asked.

Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA
   


 


Amel 54 Foresail furlers

Arno Luijten
 

Hi Forum,


A while ago I noticed a conversation about getting new furlers for the Amel 54 at a group rate. Does someone know what the actual state of this initiative is?


Thanks,


Arno Luijten


Re: Finally a real forum member

Arno Luijten
 

Hi John,

That may be sooner then you think. I will be on Martinique in the week of 9 July.

Regards,

Arno


Re: Finally a real forum member

Arno Luijten
 

Hi Nick,

Quick question; Where did you get the Micron 77 from? I looked at a few chandleries in the Caribbean but did not find it.

Cheers,

Arno


Re: SM Batteries

Alan Leslie
 

Hi Colin,

There's probably little doubt that attaching the extra 300W of solar directly to your battery bank did them more harm than good. The constant 28.8V from the alternator doesn't help either if you do long periods of motoring.

Our 12 x 6V AGM batteries came with charging ranges Absorption 7.25 - 7.45V, Float 6.8 - 6.9V.
I opted for the middle of the range so for 4 in series as a 24V system, we have Absorption 29.4V and float 27.4V.
All our charging systems (Engine Alt, Solar, D400 wind, Victron 100A and Promariner 30A) are set to those voltages and all bar the D400 wind generator have a battery temperature input, so those voltages vary depending on the temperature of the batteries.

Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Re: SM Batteries

mfmcgovern@...
 

Kent,

I don't know where you are planning on getting your batteries from but I highly recommend that you check this local Annapolis place for before you buy anything:  https://www.stevensbattery.com/

The owner is a boater and very knowledgeable.  They have great customer service and pricing.  They have a ton of batteries in stock but they turn them over quickly.  Last year I purchased 12 x Deka Marine Master DC31DT for a lower price than I could find anywhere on the internet when factoring in shipping cost - somewhere around $120 each.  I bought them in September of 2017 and the stickers on them show that they were manufactured in July of 2017.  They also load tested each one of them for me before loading them into my car so I knew that I was not getting a "dud".  

Last, they let a friend of mine borrow some empty 6v battery cases so that he could mock up his battery bank to see how many batteries he can fit.  They would likely let you do the same if you asked.

Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA
   


 


Re: SM Batteries

Colin - ex SV Island Pearl
 

Our 8 x Trojan 105's 225amp 6v lead acid batteries failed here in Mauritius today after being plugged in to shore power whilst we travelled inland for 4 days. We have just purchased 8 x 220 amp 6V AGM's (just over US$2000) of same dimensions. There were limited choices available out here in the Indian Ocean and with many on the forum now moved to AGM's, we decided to part ways from the trusty Trojans we liked so much, when none were available here.

We have a Victron 24v Victron 70amp/3000w Inverter charger and 850w solar coming in through a Tracer 40amp solar controller. Our Rutland 1200 Wind Gen solar controller unit would not work with the recent 300w of extra solar panels we put on so I direct wired those in to the battery bank and that could possibly have been my downfall!

Also our Yanmar 75hp has the original standard 80amp alternator on it which I think pushes out a constant 28.8v.

Any wisdom and/or suggestions on what I should look out for or change tomorrow when I connect the AGM's into my system for the first time after running this boat on lead acid for the past 16yrs? The AGM's came with no charge settings so keen to know what most of you set your various 3 stage charge settings at?


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Frigoboat re-charging

Ian Shepherd
 

Hi Paul,

Antigua might prove more expensive but there must be a source to cope with all the a/c units out there. I can't remember what the mains voltage is in Antigua. I suspect 220V due to it's heritage?

I normally connect my gas bottle to the centre port using the yellow hose, the blue compressor suction line to the blue port and the pump to the red port. In this case I would leave the gas bottle closed and open both the blue and red valves. Be sure that the hoses are the right way round. The ends are different, one end designed to open the valve in the end of the compressor connection fitting.

Before you recharge the gas, be certain to purge both the manifold and the blue line. Shut both valves then open the gas bottle then the blue valve with the blue hose fitting slackened where it connects to the compressor. Let the gas flow through then tighten the hose so that the gas flows into the compressor. If you don't purge and any air gets into the system then you will also get moisture in as well, ruining the good work you just did.

Good luck. I will be off line for a couple of days as I am sailing back to Cyprus tomorrow.

Ian Shepherd SM2K 414 Crusader Israel



On 28/06/2018 19:44, sharongbrown@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:
 
Ian,

Thanks for the detailed info - that's a great help. The 54 has a Frigoboat with connectors for both high & low pressure. It does seem then that I have a blockage then. I'm in Antigua so finding a vacuum pump at reasonable price may be a bit challenging. If I do find one, then what is the procedure to use it? I assume I connect to the service port in the manifold (the centre one), but then which side do I open - high or low?

Cheers,
Paul

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