Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat

Rudolf Waldispuehl
 

Thanks a lot, I learned something important! Also from Olivier's response.
Sincerely 
Ruedi

Von: <amelyachtowners@...> on behalf of "'Mohammad Shirloo' mshirloo@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Antworten an: <amelyachtowners@...>
Datum: Freitag, 29. Juni 2018 um 18:56
An: <amelyachtowners@...>
Betreff: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat

 

Reudi;
 
The main reason to run the Genset while using the bow thruster is not to reduce the load on the batteries. Putting out 400-500A for short bursts will not have a significant negative effect on the batteries.
 
By running the Genset you are maintaining a higher voltage to the bow thruster, reducing the current requirement and thus reducing the heat generated in the bow thruster and all associated wiring supplying the bow thruster. This will maximize the time the bow thruster will function before the thermal cutoff kicks in.  Therefore for us it is not a calculation of battery vs. generator life, but an issue of safety. A few extra seconds of bow thruster availability may make a big difference in the result of the maneuver.
 
Respectfully;
Mohammad Shirloo
323-633-2222 Cell
310-644-0908 Fax
 



From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2018 8:32 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat

 

Thanks for all your thoughtful responses. This is a great forum and I have learned a lot within a short time about AMEL. I love it!

Here some comments on your responses: 

I’m not using the bow truster more than 5-6 seconds per burst. When I use it, I’m carefully not to overdue and I usualy waiting to cool down a bit between 2 burst. Thats why I was wondering how fast it was paused by the system….

No, I don’t use generator while use the bow truster, as AMEL and many others recommending. I agree with Thomas about it. 
- In one hand the Engine is running always when use the BT and is supporting the batteries as well . 
- On the other hand I do not extensively use the BT so my Batteries should be able to carry the load. 

- AND most important; I don’t want to shorten the live of my GenSet just to help the batteries a bit.
In my opinion is; The live of a Diesel engine is shorten by too many short usage without much load and without running it at leased 30min at a time. When I turn the GenSet on, I use it for many things at the time, Laundry, Water-maker, heater, charging, whatsoever. Therefore it runs at leased an hour when it’s on.

BTW: 
We don’t had the 425A fuse on #55 either. Olivier recommended to install it and also an emergency shutoff in the BT compartment . So we did. ;-)

Fair winds!
Ruedi 
WASABI A54/55
Kithnos

Von: <amelyachtowners@...> on behalf of "'S/V Garulfo' svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Antworten an: <amelyachtowners@...>
Datum: Donnerstag, 28. Juni 2018 um 13:33
An: <amelyachtowners@...>
Betreff: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat

 

Hi Mohammad and Aty,

So you don't have that 425A fuse on Kokomo?
It'd be interesting to have other data points. 

When we started seeing A54s for sale, someone from the yard in Hyères told us Amel started to fit the emergency disconnect on 54s  after instances of incidents where the bow thruster wouldn't stop. The thermal switch should provide that safety stop, but maybe they felt there should be a manual override too, in case.

By the way, it was in the same sentence as "have the genset running when you use the bow thruster" that raised a few eyebrows in this group a while back. At the time, not knowing better, I took it for granted. Sufficient and safe, yes. Necessary?, I'm not sure. We don't do it anymore as we don't go to marinas that much and when we do, we try to play the game of least-bow-thruster-usage to improve our handling skills, and our batteries can handle the high current discharge.


Fair winds!

Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Curacao



On Thu, 28 Jun 2018 at 05:38, 'Mohammad Shirloo' mshirloo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Thomas;
 
Your fuse may have been added on because I've heard some surveyors and insurance companies regard this situation as unsafe and will require the fuse to be added. I'm pretty sure that we were told by Olivier during our survey that the bow thruster is directly connected to the batteries. When I inquired about the reason, I believe the response was that Amel felt that the safety of the boat, when absolutely needing the bow thruster to be operational, was more important than the possibility of the bow thruster being damaged due to overuse.
 
The emergency disconnect is a manually operated switch which would require intervention form a person to stop current flowing to the bow thruster.
 
Respectfully;
Mohammad and Aty
B&B Kokomo
Amel 54 #099
 


From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 2:01 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat

 


Hi Mohammad,

On Garulfo (54-122) there is also a 425A fuse on the positive cable and an emergency disconnect (big red button), both housed in the box inside the forward locker. 

I recently found the emergency disconnect to be rusted frozen so it's on the list for replacement. 

I would encourage others to test the emergency disconnect as it has a carbon steel backing plate and is mounted without any kind of waterproofing so is bound to rust. 

Fair winds,

Thomas 
GARULFO
A54-122
Curacao 


On Wed, 27 Jun 2018 at 19:27, 'Mohammad Shirloo' mshirloo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hello Reudi;
 
Yes, the Amel 54 has a thermal cutoff to prevent damage to the thruster as well as continuous high current draw (Around 550 Amps at 24V) which could lead to fire on board. We've had the thermal cutoff kick in  only a couple of times and it has reset in a matter of minutes. We have not timed the exact reset duration.
 
I'm not aware of any adjustments in the thermal cutoff. The bow thruster has a direct connection to the batteries without a breaker. The thermal cutoff is the only safety items preventing major damage to the thruster and/or wiring.
 
Try to use the thruster in bursts (less than 15 seconds), as much as possible, so it has time to cool down between usage. We try to over correct a bit when we use use the BT so as the bow falls off, the BT has more time to cool.
 
Respectfully;
Mohammad Shirloo
323-633-2222 Cell
310-644-0908 Fax
 


From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 9:58 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...


Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat


 

Dear Forum

On my Amel-54 I discovered that the bow truster stops working after repeatingly use within 10-15 min timeframe.

I used the bow truster a bit more than usual when I practiced some manouvers first time; - and on a second occation when I had to manouver in a marina with a lot of windguests of 18+ kn and another chain over my Anker...

It stopped working and after a while (maybe 10 min.) it re-started & operated normaly. I know BT Is not made for constant use, - only few seconds at a time. Then wait and re-use another time.

Question from a beginner:

Does the bow truster has a termic fuse which is activated after some time of usage to save the motor from overheating? 

Does anyone know exactly how it works and if this can be adjusted because I think the BT on Wasabi switches of quite fast. Any ideas or other information?

Best regards

Ruedi

SY Wasabi A54#55

Sailing Cyclades GR.




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat

Rudolf Waldispuehl
 

Hello Olivier and Forum

Thanks a lot for your advice and it perfectly make sense what you say. I was not thinking of this Voltage aspects!
BTW, 
Do you have an ideas what is the average lifetime of such an ONAN GenSet in hours and years? 

Fair winds and take care. 
Best regards
Ruedi
SY WASABI A54#55

Von: <amelyachtowners@...> on behalf of "Beaute Olivier atlanticyachtsurvey@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Antworten an: <amelyachtowners@...>
Datum: Freitag, 29. Juni 2018 um 20:20
An: <amelyachtowners@...>
Betreff: Re: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat

 

Hello all AMEL 54 owners,

there is indeed a thermic switch on the bow-thruster motor. It is connected to one of the carbon brushes. If you have already had it stop the motor, several times, or you purchased a used boat and you don't know about the over-use of the bow-thruster by the former owner, it may be time to check the carbon brushes of this motor.
Indeed, worn out brushes lead to warming up where the brushes make contact with the rotor. And worn out brushes make the motor less powerful, then you may use it a longer time for the same amount of thrust.
If you see a lot of carbon dust around your BT motor, it's time to check/replace them.

Moreover, when AMEL says that you should turn ON the generator when using the bow-thruster (and the 100A battery charger), this is because the bow-thruster will work with higher voltage (the voltage drop will be less if the charger is ON, and as the main engine alternator is not charging much at low revs). With higher voltage, the amperage will be less, the warming up of the thermic switch too and the wear of the carbon brushes too.

Now, I agree that you don't absolutely need to turn on the generator and battery charger in any conditions. But do it if you enter a harbor that you don't know (you may use the BT a lot) or if the wind is strong.

In the french Navy, when a vessel enters a harbor, every means of power is systematically turned ON, in case one fails. Bill R will tell us how they do in the US Navy, but it may be the same.
This was the idea of Captain AMEL and Mr. Carteau when they decided to give the "Generator ON when docking" advice.

Rüdi, don't worry about too much wear on your generator, it is a very resistant piece of hardware...


Keep enjoying easy dockings!!

Olivier

On Friday, June 29, 2018, 5:42:37 PM GMT+2, 'Mohammad Shirloo' mshirloo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 

Reudi;
 
The main reason to run the Genset while using the bow thruster is not to reduce the load on the batteries. Putting out 400-500A for short bursts will not have a significant negative effect on the batteries.
 
By running the Genset you are maintaining a higher voltage to the bow thruster, reducing the current requirement and thus reducing the heat generated in the bow thruster and all associated wiring supplying the bow thruster. This will maximize the time the bow thruster will function before the thermal cutoff kicks in.  Therefore for us it is not a calculation of battery vs. generator life, but an issue of safety. A few extra seconds of bow thruster availability may make a big difference in the result of the maneuver.
 
Respectfully;
Mohammad Shirloo
323-633-2222 Cell
310-644-0908 Fax
 


From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2018 8:32 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat

 

Thanks for all your thoughtful responses. This is a great forum and I have learned a lot within a short time about AMEL. I love it!

Here some comments on your responses: 

I’m not using the bow truster more than 5-6 seconds per burst. When I use it, I’m carefully not to overdue and I usualy waiting to cool down a bit between 2 burst. Thats why I was wondering how fast it was paused by the system….

No, I don’t use generator while use the bow truster, as AMEL and many others recommending. I agree with Thomas about it. 
- In one hand the Engine is running always when use the BT and is supporting the batteries as well . 
- On the other hand I do not extensively use the BT so my Batteries should be able to carry the load. 

- AND most important; I don’t want to shorten the live of my GenSet just to help the batteries a bit.
In my opinion is; The live of a Diesel engine is shorten by too many short usage without much load and without running it at leased 30min at a time. When I turn the GenSet on, I use it for many things at the time, Laundry, Water-maker, heater, charging, whatsoever. Therefore it runs at leased an hour when it’s on.

BTW: 
We don’t had the 425A fuse on #55 either. Olivier recommended to install it and also an emergency shutoff in the BT compartment . So we did. ;-)

Fair winds!
Ruedi 
WASABI A54/55
Kithnos

Von: <amelyachtowners@...> on behalf of "'S/V Garulfo' svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Antworten an: <amelyachtowners@...>
Datum: Donnerstag, 28. Juni 2018 um 13:33
An: <amelyachtowners@...>
Betreff: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat

 

Hi Mohammad and Aty,

So you don't have that 425A fuse on Kokomo?
It'd be interesting to have other data points. 

When we started seeing A54s for sale, someone from the yard in Hyères told us Amel started to fit the emergency disconnect on 54s  after instances of incidents where the bow thruster wouldn't stop. The thermal switch should provide that safety stop, but maybe they felt there should be a manual override too, in case.

By the way, it was in the same sentence as "have the genset running when you use the bow thruster" that raised a few eyebrows in this group a while back. At the time, not knowing better, I took it for granted. Sufficient and safe, yes. Necessary?, I'm not sure. We don't do it anymore as we don't go to marinas that much and when we do, we try to play the game of least-bow-thruster-usage to improve our handling skills, and our batteries can handle the high current discharge.


Fair winds!

Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Curacao



On Thu, 28 Jun 2018 at 05:38, 'Mohammad Shirloo' mshirloo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Thomas;
 
Your fuse may have been added on because I've heard some surveyors and insurance companies regard this situation as unsafe and will require the fuse to be added. I'm pretty sure that we were told by Olivier during our survey that the bow thruster is directly connected to the batteries. When I inquired about the reason, I believe the response was that Amel felt that the safety of the boat, when absolutely needing the bow thruster to be operational, was more important than the possibility of the bow thruster being damaged due to overuse.
 
The emergency disconnect is a manually operated switch which would require intervention form a person to stop current flowing to the bow thruster.
 
Respectfully;
Mohammad and Aty
B&B Kokomo
Amel 54 #099
 


From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 2:01 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat

 


Hi Mohammad,

On Garulfo (54-122) there is also a 425A fuse on the positive cable and an emergency disconnect (big red button), both housed in the box inside the forward locker. 

I recently found the emergency disconnect to be rusted frozen so it's on the list for replacement. 

I would encourage others to test the emergency disconnect as it has a carbon steel backing plate and is mounted without any kind of waterproofing so is bound to rust. 

Fair winds,

Thomas 
GARULFO
A54-122
Curacao 


On Wed, 27 Jun 2018 at 19:27, 'Mohammad Shirloo' mshirloo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hello Reudi;
 
Yes, the Amel 54 has a thermal cutoff to prevent damage to the thruster as well as continuous high current draw (Around 550 Amps at 24V) which could lead to fire on board. We've had the thermal cutoff kick in  only a couple of times and it has reset in a matter of minutes. We have not timed the exact reset duration.
 
I'm not aware of any adjustments in the thermal cutoff. The bow thruster has a direct connection to the batteries without a breaker. The thermal cutoff is the only safety items preventing major damage to the thruster and/or wiring.
 
Try to use the thruster in bursts (less than 15 seconds), as much as possible, so it has time to cool down between usage. We try to over correct a bit when we use use the BT so as the bow falls off, the BT has more time to cool.
 
Respectfully;
Mohammad Shirloo
323-633-2222 Cell
310-644-0908 Fax
 


From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 9:58 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...


Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat


 

Dear Forum

On my Amel-54 I discovered that the bow truster stops working after repeatingly use within 10-15 min timeframe.

I used the bow truster a bit more than usual when I practiced some manouvers first time; - and on a second occation when I had to manouver in a marina with a lot of windguests of 18+ kn and another chain over my Anker...

It stopped working and after a while (maybe 10 min.) it re-started & operated normaly. I know BT Is not made for constant use, - only few seconds at a time. Then wait and re-use another time.

Question from a beginner:

Does the bow truster has a termic fuse which is activated after some time of usage to save the motor from overheating? 

Does anyone know exactly how it works and if this can be adjusted because I think the BT on Wasabi switches of quite fast. Any ideas or other information?

Best regards

Ruedi

SY Wasabi A54#55

Sailing Cyclades GR.




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Finally a real forum member

ngtnewington Newington
 

Jolly Harbour Budget Marine in Antigua


On 29 Jun 2018, at 03:19, arno.luijten@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Nick,


Quick question; Where did you get the Micron 77 from? I looked at a few chandleries in the Caribbean but did not find it.

Cheers,

Arno


Re: Fresh Water Leak At Aft Head

pacificcool@...
 

Thanks for the great comments. There is at last 5 liters last time I checked so I doubt it cold be the AC unit, but I'll check it anyway.  I had not thought about the shower fresh water lines, just the sink ones.  Thank again.  

Bill Shaproski


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Amel 54 Foresail furlers

Barry Connor
 

Thank’s Guys,
You reminded me also to chase Paul up too.
He replied to me that he will organize when he returns from his holiday on 6th July.  I will be ordering through Nance and Underwood in Florida, I and friends of mine have had business with them in the past and all good experiences. My install through them will be later when we get to US.
Best 

Barry and Penny
“Lady Penelope II”
Amel 54. #17
Trogir. Croatia 


On Jun 29, 2018, at 6:45 PM, arno.luijten@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

I have contacted Paul from Bamar USA. He responded very quickly although he is away for holidays. He will look into this when he gets back (July 6th). He thinks he can serve me as well at the latest proposed rate.

Thanks all,

Arno


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Fresh Water Leak At Aft Head

karkauai
 

Hi Bill.  Not sure how much water you are talking about.  The aft AC unit drains condensation into the gray water system.  If that pan’s drain is occluded, the condensate water could overflow and end up where you describe.

Any leak aft of the bulkhead could end up there, I think, if you are sailing/heeling.

Is your fresh water pump running when all taps are turned off?  If not, it has tone from something in the drainage system, rain water, or AC condensate.

Kent
Kristy
SM 243

On Jun 29, 2018, at 12:35 PM, pacificcool@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

I have SM 141 from 1995.  My current problem is a fresh water leak somewhere in the aft head.  Some time back I noticed that there was a fresh water accumulation in the cavity under the entrance to the aft head.  This is where you can access the head sea cock and where the drain hose from the shower pan passes through going forward.  I was able to confirm that the leak is not from the shower drain hose aft end where it attaches to the shower pan.  So the only other place could be where the drain hose passes through the forward wall of the cavity.  Unfortunately this is very difficult to access.  I was eventually able to put another clamp on the hose and tighten it. 


To isolate the source of the leak I stopped using the aft head completely to determine if that would eliminate the water accumulation.  However, it did not and a large amount of fresh water accumulated in the cavity again.  This time it was much cleaner which led me to believe it must be coming from the hot or cold fresh water supply lines.  But I cannot see how a leaking fresh water supply line would have a path to allow water to enter the cavity in front of the head door.  I turned off the fresh water pump to determine if that would stop the leak.  If yes, then it would confirm that the leak is from one of the supply lines.  But that would not explain how it gets into the cavity. 


One possibility is that there is a leak of one of the fresh water supply lines that leaks into the shower pan and then leaks out where the shower pan drain line exits the cavity at the forward end (where it’s difficult to access).  Unfortunately, I’m not at the boat now so cannot determine if turning off the fresh water pump stopped the leak.  But I’m pretty sure it must have.

If anyone recognizes this scenario, please advise.  I suppose I will have to disassemble the sink to see where the leak is and then replace the shower pan drain hose.  The problem is how to replace the drain hose given how difficult it is to access the forward end.  Any suggestions are welcome.  I will be flying back to the boat in a week. 


Regards,

Bill Shaproski

S/V Pacific Cool



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat

Porter McRoberts
 

Simply incredible, these responses. 
They are so very appreciated. I learn so much from this forum, it’s about worth the price of admission!
Thank you all. So much

Porter and Helen
S/V Ibis
Amel 54-152



On Jun 29, 2018, at 12:20 PM, Beaute Olivier atlanticyachtsurvey@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hello all AMEL 54 owners,

there is indeed a thermic switch on the bow-thruster motor. It is connected to one of the carbon brushes. If you have already had it stop the motor, several times, or you purchased a used boat and you don't know about the over-use of the bow-thruster by the former owner, it may be time to check the carbon brushes of this motor.
Indeed, worn out brushes lead to warming up where the brushes make contact with the rotor. And worn out brushes make the motor less powerful, then you may use it a longer time for the same amount of thrust.
If you see a lot of carbon dust around your BT motor, it's time to check/replace them.

Moreover, when AMEL says that you should turn ON the generator when using the bow-thruster (and the 100A battery charger), this is because the bow-thruster will work with higher voltage (the voltage drop will be less if the charger is ON, and as the main engine alternator is not charging much at low revs). With higher voltage, the amperage will be less, the warming up of the thermic switch too and the wear of the carbon brushes too.

Now, I agree that you don't absolutely need to turn on the generator and battery charger in any conditions. But do it if you enter a harbor that you don't know (you may use the BT a lot) or if the wind is strong.

In the french Navy, when a vessel enters a harbor, every means of power is systematically turned ON, in case one fails. Bill R will tell us how they do in the US Navy, but it may be the same.
This was the idea of Captain AMEL and Mr. Carteau when they decided to give the "Generator ON when docking" advice.

Rüdi, don't worry about too much wear on your generator, it is a very resistant piece of hardware...


Keep enjoying easy dockings!!

Olivier

On Friday, June 29, 2018, 5:42:37 PM GMT+2, 'Mohammad Shirloo' mshirloo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 

Reudi;
 
The main reason to run the Genset while using the bow thruster is not to reduce the load on the batteries. Putting out 400-500A for short bursts will not have a significant negative effect on the batteries.
 
By running the Genset you are maintaining a higher voltage to the bow thruster, reducing the current requirement and thus reducing the heat generated in the bow thruster and all associated wiring supplying the bow thruster. This will maximize the time the bow thruster will function before the thermal cutoff kicks in.  Therefore for us it is not a calculation of battery vs. generator life, but an issue of safety. A few extra seconds of bow thruster availability may make a big difference in the result of the maneuver.
 
Respectfully;
Mohammad Shirloo
323-633-2222 Cell
310-644-0908 Fax
 


From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2018 8:32 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat

 

Thanks for all your thoughtful responses. This is a great forum and I have learned a lot within a short time about AMEL. I love it!

Here some comments on your responses: 

I’m not using the bow truster more than 5-6 seconds per burst. When I use it, I’m carefully not to overdue and I usualy waiting to cool down a bit between 2 burst. Thats why I was wondering how fast it was paused by the system….

No, I don’t use generator while use the bow truster, as AMEL and many others recommending. I agree with Thomas about it. 
- In one hand the Engine is running always when use the BT and is supporting the batteries as well . 
- On the other hand I do not extensively use the BT so my Batteries should be able to carry the load. 

- AND most important; I don’t want to shorten the live of my GenSet just to help the batteries a bit.
In my opinion is; The live of a Diesel engine is shorten by too many short usage without much load and without running it at leased 30min at a time. When I turn the GenSet on, I use it for many things at the time, Laundry, Water-maker, heater, charging, whatsoever. Therefore it runs at leased an hour when it’s on.

BTW: 
We don’t had the 425A fuse on #55 either. Olivier recommended to install it and also an emergency shutoff in the BT compartment . So we did. ;-)

Fair winds!
Ruedi 
WASABI A54/55
Kithnos

Von: <amelyachtowners@...> on behalf of "'S/V Garulfo' svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Antworten an: <amelyachtowners@...>
Datum: Donnerstag, 28. Juni 2018 um 13:33
An: <amelyachtowners@...>
Betreff: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat

 

Hi Mohammad and Aty,

So you don't have that 425A fuse on Kokomo?
It'd be interesting to have other data points. 

When we started seeing A54s for sale, someone from the yard in Hyères told us Amel started to fit the emergency disconnect on 54s  after instances of incidents where the bow thruster wouldn't stop. The thermal switch should provide that safety stop, but maybe they felt there should be a manual override too, in case.

By the way, it was in the same sentence as "have the genset running when you use the bow thruster" that raised a few eyebrows in this group a while back. At the time, not knowing better, I took it for granted. Sufficient and safe, yes. Necessary?, I'm not sure. We don't do it anymore as we don't go to marinas that much and when we do, we try to play the game of least-bow-thruster-usage to improve our handling skills, and our batteries can handle the high current discharge.


Fair winds!

Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Curacao



On Thu, 28 Jun 2018 at 05:38, 'Mohammad Shirloo' mshirloo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Thomas;
 
Your fuse may have been added on because I've heard some surveyors and insurance companies regard this situation as unsafe and will require the fuse to be added. I'm pretty sure that we were told by Olivier during our survey that the bow thruster is directly connected to the batteries. When I inquired about the reason, I believe the response was that Amel felt that the safety of the boat, when absolutely needing the bow thruster to be operational, was more important than the possibility of the bow thruster being damaged due to overuse.
 
The emergency disconnect is a manually operated switch which would require intervention form a person to stop current flowing to the bow thruster.
 
Respectfully;
Mohammad and Aty
B&B Kokomo
Amel 54 #099
 


From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 2:01 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat

 


Hi Mohammad,

On Garulfo (54-122) there is also a 425A fuse on the positive cable and an emergency disconnect (big red button), both housed in the box inside the forward locker. 

I recently found the emergency disconnect to be rusted frozen so it's on the list for replacement. 

I would encourage others to test the emergency disconnect as it has a carbon steel backing plate and is mounted without any kind of waterproofing so is bound to rust. 

Fair winds,

Thomas 
GARULFO
A54-122
Curacao 


On Wed, 27 Jun 2018 at 19:27, 'Mohammad Shirloo' mshirloo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hello Reudi;
 
Yes, the Amel 54 has a thermal cutoff to prevent damage to the thruster as well as continuous high current draw (Around 550 Amps at 24V) which could lead to fire on board. We've had the thermal cutoff kick in  only a couple of times and it has reset in a matter of minutes. We have not timed the exact reset duration.
 
I'm not aware of any adjustments in the thermal cutoff. The bow thruster has a direct connection to the batteries without a breaker. The thermal cutoff is the only safety items preventing major damage to the thruster and/or wiring.
 
Try to use the thruster in bursts (less than 15 seconds), as much as possible, so it has time to cool down between usage. We try to over correct a bit when we use use the BT so as the bow falls off, the BT has more time to cool.
 
Respectfully;
Mohammad Shirloo
323-633-2222 Cell
310-644-0908 Fax
 


From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 9:58 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...


Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat


 

Dear Forum

On my Amel-54 I discovered that the bow truster stops working after repeatingly use within 10-15 min timeframe.

I used the bow truster a bit more than usual when I practiced some manouvers first time; - and on a second occation when I had to manouver in a marina with a lot of windguests of 18+ kn and another chain over my Anker...

It stopped working and after a while (maybe 10 min.) it re-started & operated normaly. I know BT Is not made for constant use, - only few seconds at a time. Then wait and re-use another time.

Question from a beginner:

Does the bow truster has a termic fuse which is activated after some time of usage to save the motor from overheating? 

Does anyone know exactly how it works and if this can be adjusted because I think the BT on Wasabi switches of quite fast. Any ideas or other information?

Best regards

Ruedi

SY Wasabi A54#55

Sailing Cyclades GR.




Re: Fresh Water Leak At Aft Head

greatketch@...
 

Bill, 
One place where a fresh water supply leak will drain to where you are finding water is from the lines that supply the shower. You might want to remove the cover over those lines and inspect the connections and the bottom side of the shower valve. 

That’s my first bet for the problem.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA


---In amelyachtowners@..., <pacificcool@...> wrote :

I have SM 141 from 1995.  My current problem is a fresh water leak somewhere in the aft head.  Some time back I noticed that there was a fresh water accumulation in the cavity under the entrance to the aft head.  This is where you can access the head sea cock and where the drain hose from the shower pan passes through going forward.  I was able to confirm that the leak is not from the shower drain hose aft end where it attaches to the shower pan.  So the only other place could be where the drain hose passes through the forward wall of the cavity.  Unfortunately this is very difficult to access.  I was eventually able to put another clamp on the hose and tighten it. 


To isolate the source of the leak I stopped using the aft head completely to determine if that would eliminate the water accumulation.  However, it did not and a large amount of fresh water accumulated in the cavity again.  This time it was much cleaner which led me to believe it must be coming from the hot or cold fresh water supply lines.  But I cannot see how a leaking fresh water supply line would have a path to allow water to enter the cavity in front of the head door.  I turned off the fresh water pump to determine if that would stop the leak.  If yes, then it would confirm that the leak is from one of the supply lines.  But that would not explain how it gets into the cavity. 


One possibility is that there is a leak of one of the fresh water supply lines that leaks into the shower pan and then leaks out where the shower pan drain line exits the cavity at the forward end (where it’s difficult to access).  Unfortunately, I’m not at the boat now so cannot determine if turning off the fresh water pump stopped the leak.  But I’m pretty sure it must have.

If anyone recognizes this scenario, please advise.  I suppose I will have to disassemble the sink to see where the leak is and then replace the shower pan drain hose.  The problem is how to replace the drain hose given how difficult it is to access the forward end.  Any suggestions are welcome.  I will be flying back to the boat in a week. 


Regards,

Bill Shaproski

S/V Pacific Cool



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Fresh Water Leak At Aft Head

 

Have you confirmed that it is NOT an AC condensation leak? 

It is a common issue that the plastic condensate collection box under the evaporator coil, cracks and leaks.

Also, there is an easier way to check for a freshwater supply hose leak than you are planning to do.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970






On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 11:37 AM pacificcool@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

I have SM 141 from 1995.  My current problem is a fresh water leak somewhere in the aft head.  Some time back I noticed that there was a fresh water accumulation in the cavity under the entrance to the aft head.  This is where you can access the head sea cock and where the drain hose from the shower pan passes through going forward.  I was able to confirm that the leak is not from the shower drain hose aft end where it attaches to the shower pan.  So the only other place could be where the drain hose passes through the forward wall of the cavity.  Unfortunately this is very difficult to access.  I was eventually able to put another clamp on the hose and tighten it. 


To isolate the source of the leak I stopped using the aft head completely to determine if that would eliminate the water accumulation.  However, it did not and a large amount of fresh water accumulated in the cavity again.  This time it was much cleaner which led me to believe it must be coming from the hot or cold fresh water supply lines.  But I cannot see how a leaking fresh water supply line would have a path to allow water to enter the cavity in front of the head door.  I turned off the fresh water pump to determine if that would stop the leak.  If yes, then it would confirm that the leak is from one of the supply lines.  But that would not explain how it gets into the cavity. 


One possibility is that there is a leak of one of the fresh water supply lines that leaks into the shower pan and then leaks out where the shower pan drain line exits the cavity at the forward end (where it’s difficult to access).  Unfortunately, I’m not at the boat now so cannot determine if turning off the fresh water pump stopped the leak.  But I’m pretty sure it must have.

If anyone recognizes this scenario, please advise.  I suppose I will have to disassemble the sink to see where the leak is and then replace the shower pan drain hose.  The problem is how to replace the drain hose given how difficult it is to access the forward end.  Any suggestions are welcome.  I will be flying back to the boat in a week. 


Regards,

Bill Shaproski

S/V Pacific Cool



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat

Beaute Olivier
 

Hello all AMEL 54 owners,

there is indeed a thermic switch on the bow-thruster motor. It is connected to one of the carbon brushes. If you have already had it stop the motor, several times, or you purchased a used boat and you don't know about the over-use of the bow-thruster by the former owner, it may be time to check the carbon brushes of this motor.
Indeed, worn out brushes lead to warming up where the brushes make contact with the rotor. And worn out brushes make the motor less powerful, then you may use it a longer time for the same amount of thrust.
If you see a lot of carbon dust around your BT motor, it's time to check/replace them.

Moreover, when AMEL says that you should turn ON the generator when using the bow-thruster (and the 100A battery charger), this is because the bow-thruster will work with higher voltage (the voltage drop will be less if the charger is ON, and as the main engine alternator is not charging much at low revs). With higher voltage, the amperage will be less, the warming up of the thermic switch too and the wear of the carbon brushes too.

Now, I agree that you don't absolutely need to turn on the generator and battery charger in any conditions. But do it if you enter a harbor that you don't know (you may use the BT a lot) or if the wind is strong.

In the french Navy, when a vessel enters a harbor, every means of power is systematically turned ON, in case one fails. Bill R will tell us how they do in the US Navy, but it may be the same.
This was the idea of Captain AMEL and Mr. Carteau when they decided to give the "Generator ON when docking" advice.

Rüdi, don't worry about too much wear on your generator, it is a very resistant piece of hardware...


Keep enjoying easy dockings!!

Olivier

On Friday, June 29, 2018, 5:42:37 PM GMT+2, 'Mohammad Shirloo' mshirloo@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:


 

Reudi;
 
The main reason to run the Genset while using the bow thruster is not to reduce the load on the batteries. Putting out 400-500A for short bursts will not have a significant negative effect on the batteries.
 
By running the Genset you are maintaining a higher voltage to the bow thruster, reducing the current requirement and thus reducing the heat generated in the bow thruster and all associated wiring supplying the bow thruster. This will maximize the time the bow thruster will function before the thermal cutoff kicks in.  Therefore for us it is not a calculation of battery vs. generator life, but an issue of safety. A few extra seconds of bow thruster availability may make a big difference in the result of the maneuver.
 
Respectfully;
Mohammad Shirloo
323-633-2222 Cell
310-644-0908 Fax
 


From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2018 8:32 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat

 

Thanks for all your thoughtful responses. This is a great forum and I have learned a lot within a short time about AMEL. I love it!

Here some comments on your responses: 

I’m not using the bow truster more than 5-6 seconds per burst. When I use it, I’m carefully not to overdue and I usualy waiting to cool down a bit between 2 burst. Thats why I was wondering how fast it was paused by the system….

No, I don’t use generator while use the bow truster, as AMEL and many others recommending. I agree with Thomas about it. 
- In one hand the Engine is running always when use the BT and is supporting the batteries as well . 
- On the other hand I do not extensively use the BT so my Batteries should be able to carry the load. 

- AND most important; I don’t want to shorten the live of my GenSet just to help the batteries a bit.
In my opinion is; The live of a Diesel engine is shorten by too many short usage without much load and without running it at leased 30min at a time. When I turn the GenSet on, I use it for many things at the time, Laundry, Water-maker, heater, charging, whatsoever. Therefore it runs at leased an hour when it’s on.

BTW: 
We don’t had the 425A fuse on #55 either. Olivier recommended to install it and also an emergency shutoff in the BT compartment . So we did. ;-)

Fair winds!
Ruedi 
WASABI A54/55
Kithnos

Von: <amelyachtowners@...> on behalf of "'S/V Garulfo' svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Antworten an: <amelyachtowners@...>
Datum: Donnerstag, 28. Juni 2018 um 13:33
An: <amelyachtowners@...>
Betreff: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat

 

Hi Mohammad and Aty,

So you don't have that 425A fuse on Kokomo?
It'd be interesting to have other data points. 

When we started seeing A54s for sale, someone from the yard in Hyères told us Amel started to fit the emergency disconnect on 54s  after instances of incidents where the bow thruster wouldn't stop. The thermal switch should provide that safety stop, but maybe they felt there should be a manual override too, in case.

By the way, it was in the same sentence as "have the genset running when you use the bow thruster" that raised a few eyebrows in this group a while back. At the time, not knowing better, I took it for granted. Sufficient and safe, yes. Necessary?, I'm not sure. We don't do it anymore as we don't go to marinas that much and when we do, we try to play the game of least-bow-thruster-usage to improve our handling skills, and our batteries can handle the high current discharge.


Fair winds!

Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Curacao



On Thu, 28 Jun 2018 at 05:38, 'Mohammad Shirloo' mshirloo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Thomas;
 
Your fuse may have been added on because I've heard some surveyors and insurance companies regard this situation as unsafe and will require the fuse to be added. I'm pretty sure that we were told by Olivier during our survey that the bow thruster is directly connected to the batteries. When I inquired about the reason, I believe the response was that Amel felt that the safety of the boat, when absolutely needing the bow thruster to be operational, was more important than the possibility of the bow thruster being damaged due to overuse.
 
The emergency disconnect is a manually operated switch which would require intervention form a person to stop current flowing to the bow thruster.
 
Respectfully;
Mohammad and Aty
B&B Kokomo
Amel 54 #099
 


From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 2:01 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat

 


Hi Mohammad,

On Garulfo (54-122) there is also a 425A fuse on the positive cable and an emergency disconnect (big red button), both housed in the box inside the forward locker. 

I recently found the emergency disconnect to be rusted frozen so it's on the list for replacement. 

I would encourage others to test the emergency disconnect as it has a carbon steel backing plate and is mounted without any kind of waterproofing so is bound to rust. 

Fair winds,

Thomas 
GARULFO
A54-122
Curacao 


On Wed, 27 Jun 2018 at 19:27, 'Mohammad Shirloo' mshirloo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hello Reudi;
 
Yes, the Amel 54 has a thermal cutoff to prevent damage to the thruster as well as continuous high current draw (Around 550 Amps at 24V) which could lead to fire on board. We've had the thermal cutoff kick in  only a couple of times and it has reset in a matter of minutes. We have not timed the exact reset duration.
 
I'm not aware of any adjustments in the thermal cutoff. The bow thruster has a direct connection to the batteries without a breaker. The thermal cutoff is the only safety items preventing major damage to the thruster and/or wiring.
 
Try to use the thruster in bursts (less than 15 seconds), as much as possible, so it has time to cool down between usage. We try to over correct a bit when we use use the BT so as the bow falls off, the BT has more time to cool.
 
Respectfully;
Mohammad Shirloo
323-633-2222 Cell
310-644-0908 Fax
 


From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 9:58 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...


Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat


 

Dear Forum

On my Amel-54 I discovered that the bow truster stops working after repeatingly use within 10-15 min timeframe.

I used the bow truster a bit more than usual when I practiced some manouvers first time; - and on a second occation when I had to manouver in a marina with a lot of windguests of 18+ kn and another chain over my Anker...

It stopped working and after a while (maybe 10 min.) it re-started & operated normaly. I know BT Is not made for constant use, - only few seconds at a time. Then wait and re-use another time.

Question from a beginner:

Does the bow truster has a termic fuse which is activated after some time of usage to save the motor from overheating? 

Does anyone know exactly how it works and if this can be adjusted because I think the BT on Wasabi switches of quite fast. Any ideas or other information?

Best regards

Ruedi

SY Wasabi A54#55

Sailing Cyclades GR.




Re: Amel 54 Foresail furlers

Arno Luijten
 

I have contacted Paul from Bamar USA. He responded very quickly although he is away for holidays. He will look into this when he gets back (July 6th). He thinks he can serve me as well at the latest proposed rate.

Thanks all,

Arno


Fresh Water Leak At Aft Head

pacificcool@...
 

I have SM 141 from 1995.  My current problem is a fresh water leak somewhere in the aft head.  Some time back I noticed that there was a fresh water accumulation in the cavity under the entrance to the aft head.  This is where you can access the head sea cock and where the drain hose from the shower pan passes through going forward.  I was able to confirm that the leak is not from the shower drain hose aft end where it attaches to the shower pan.  So the only other place could be where the drain hose passes through the forward wall of the cavity.  Unfortunately this is very difficult to access.  I was eventually able to put another clamp on the hose and tighten it. 


To isolate the source of the leak I stopped using the aft head completely to determine if that would eliminate the water accumulation.  However, it did not and a large amount of fresh water accumulated in the cavity again.  This time it was much cleaner which led me to believe it must be coming from the hot or cold fresh water supply lines.  But I cannot see how a leaking fresh water supply line would have a path to allow water to enter the cavity in front of the head door.  I turned off the fresh water pump to determine if that would stop the leak.  If yes, then it would confirm that the leak is from one of the supply lines.  But that would not explain how it gets into the cavity. 


One possibility is that there is a leak of one of the fresh water supply lines that leaks into the shower pan and then leaks out where the shower pan drain line exits the cavity at the forward end (where it’s difficult to access).  Unfortunately, I’m not at the boat now so cannot determine if turning off the fresh water pump stopped the leak.  But I’m pretty sure it must have.

If anyone recognizes this scenario, please advise.  I suppose I will have to disassemble the sink to see where the leak is and then replace the shower pan drain hose.  The problem is how to replace the drain hose given how difficult it is to access the forward end.  Any suggestions are welcome.  I will be flying back to the boat in a week. 


Regards,

Bill Shaproski

S/V Pacific Cool



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat

Mohammad Shirloo
 

Reudi;
 
The main reason to run the Genset while using the bow thruster is not to reduce the load on the batteries. Putting out 400-500A for short bursts will not have a significant negative effect on the batteries.
 
By running the Genset you are maintaining a higher voltage to the bow thruster, reducing the current requirement and thus reducing the heat generated in the bow thruster and all associated wiring supplying the bow thruster. This will maximize the time the bow thruster will function before the thermal cutoff kicks in.  Therefore for us it is not a calculation of battery vs. generator life, but an issue of safety. A few extra seconds of bow thruster availability may make a big difference in the result of the maneuver.
 
Respectfully;
Mohammad Shirloo
323-633-2222 Cell
310-644-0908 Fax
 



From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2018 8:32 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat

 

Thanks for all your thoughtful responses. This is a great forum and I have learned a lot within a short time about AMEL. I love it!

Here some comments on your responses: 

I’m not using the bow truster more than 5-6 seconds per burst. When I use it, I’m carefully not to overdue and I usualy waiting to cool down a bit between 2 burst. Thats why I was wondering how fast it was paused by the system….

No, I don’t use generator while use the bow truster, as AMEL and many others recommending. I agree with Thomas about it. 
- In one hand the Engine is running always when use the BT and is supporting the batteries as well . 
- On the other hand I do not extensively use the BT so my Batteries should be able to carry the load. 

- AND most important; I don’t want to shorten the live of my GenSet just to help the batteries a bit.
In my opinion is; The live of a Diesel engine is shorten by too many short usage without much load and without running it at leased 30min at a time. When I turn the GenSet on, I use it for many things at the time, Laundry, Water-maker, heater, charging, whatsoever. Therefore it runs at leased an hour when it’s on.

BTW: 
We don’t had the 425A fuse on #55 either. Olivier recommended to install it and also an emergency shutoff in the BT compartment . So we did. ;-)

Fair winds!
Ruedi 
WASABI A54/55
Kithnos

Von: <amelyachtowners@...> on behalf of "'S/V Garulfo' svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Antworten an: <amelyachtowners@...>
Datum: Donnerstag, 28. Juni 2018 um 13:33
An: <amelyachtowners@...>
Betreff: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat

 

Hi Mohammad and Aty,

So you don't have that 425A fuse on Kokomo?
It'd be interesting to have other data points. 

When we started seeing A54s for sale, someone from the yard in Hyères told us Amel started to fit the emergency disconnect on 54s  after instances of incidents where the bow thruster wouldn't stop. The thermal switch should provide that safety stop, but maybe they felt there should be a manual override too, in case.

By the way, it was in the same sentence as "have the genset running when you use the bow thruster" that raised a few eyebrows in this group a while back. At the time, not knowing better, I took it for granted. Sufficient and safe, yes. Necessary?, I'm not sure. We don't do it anymore as we don't go to marinas that much and when we do, we try to play the game of least-bow-thruster-usage to improve our handling skills, and our batteries can handle the high current discharge.


Fair winds!

Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Curacao



On Thu, 28 Jun 2018 at 05:38, 'Mohammad Shirloo' mshirloo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Thomas;
 
Your fuse may have been added on because I've heard some surveyors and insurance companies regard this situation as unsafe and will require the fuse to be added. I'm pretty sure that we were told by Olivier during our survey that the bow thruster is directly connected to the batteries. When I inquired about the reason, I believe the response was that Amel felt that the safety of the boat, when absolutely needing the bow thruster to be operational, was more important than the possibility of the bow thruster being damaged due to overuse.
 
The emergency disconnect is a manually operated switch which would require intervention form a person to stop current flowing to the bow thruster.
 
Respectfully;
Mohammad and Aty
B&B Kokomo
Amel 54 #099
 


From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 2:01 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat

 


Hi Mohammad,

On Garulfo (54-122) there is also a 425A fuse on the positive cable and an emergency disconnect (big red button), both housed in the box inside the forward locker. 

I recently found the emergency disconnect to be rusted frozen so it's on the list for replacement. 

I would encourage others to test the emergency disconnect as it has a carbon steel backing plate and is mounted without any kind of waterproofing so is bound to rust. 

Fair winds,

Thomas 
GARULFO
A54-122
Curacao 


On Wed, 27 Jun 2018 at 19:27, 'Mohammad Shirloo' mshirloo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hello Reudi;
 
Yes, the Amel 54 has a thermal cutoff to prevent damage to the thruster as well as continuous high current draw (Around 550 Amps at 24V) which could lead to fire on board. We've had the thermal cutoff kick in  only a couple of times and it has reset in a matter of minutes. We have not timed the exact reset duration.
 
I'm not aware of any adjustments in the thermal cutoff. The bow thruster has a direct connection to the batteries without a breaker. The thermal cutoff is the only safety items preventing major damage to the thruster and/or wiring.
 
Try to use the thruster in bursts (less than 15 seconds), as much as possible, so it has time to cool down between usage. We try to over correct a bit when we use use the BT so as the bow falls off, the BT has more time to cool.
 
Respectfully;
Mohammad Shirloo
323-633-2222 Cell
310-644-0908 Fax
 


From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 9:58 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...


Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat


 

Dear Forum

On my Amel-54 I discovered that the bow truster stops working after repeatingly use within 10-15 min timeframe.

I used the bow truster a bit more than usual when I practiced some manouvers first time; - and on a second occation when I had to manouver in a marina with a lot of windguests of 18+ kn and another chain over my Anker...

It stopped working and after a while (maybe 10 min.) it re-started & operated normaly. I know BT Is not made for constant use, - only few seconds at a time. Then wait and re-use another time.

Question from a beginner:

Does the bow truster has a termic fuse which is activated after some time of usage to save the motor from overheating? 

Does anyone know exactly how it works and if this can be adjusted because I think the BT on Wasabi switches of quite fast. Any ideas or other information?

Best regards

Ruedi

SY Wasabi A54#55

Sailing Cyclades GR.




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat

Rudolf Waldispuehl
 

Thanks for all your thoughtful responses. This is a great forum and I have learned a lot within a short time about AMEL. I love it!

Here some comments on your responses: 

I’m not using the bow truster more than 5-6 seconds per burst. When I use it, I’m carefully not to overdue and I usualy waiting to cool down a bit between 2 burst. Thats why I was wondering how fast it was paused by the system….

No, I don’t use generator while use the bow truster, as AMEL and many others recommending. I agree with Thomas about it. 
- In one hand the Engine is running always when use the BT and is supporting the batteries as well . 
- On the other hand I do not extensively use the BT so my Batteries should be able to carry the load. 

- AND most important; I don’t want to shorten the live of my GenSet just to help the batteries a bit.
In my opinion is; The live of a Diesel engine is shorten by too many short usage without much load and without running it at leased 30min at a time. When I turn the GenSet on, I use it for many things at the time, Laundry, Water-maker, heater, charging, whatsoever. Therefore it runs at leased an hour when it’s on.

BTW: 
We don’t had the 425A fuse on #55 either. Olivier recommended to install it and also an emergency shutoff in the BT compartment . So we did. ;-)

Fair winds!
Ruedi 
WASABI A54/55
Kithnos

Von: <amelyachtowners@...> on behalf of "'S/V Garulfo' svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Antworten an: <amelyachtowners@...>
Datum: Donnerstag, 28. Juni 2018 um 13:33
An: <amelyachtowners@...>
Betreff: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat

 

Hi Mohammad and Aty,

So you don't have that 425A fuse on Kokomo?
It'd be interesting to have other data points. 

When we started seeing A54s for sale, someone from the yard in Hyères told us Amel started to fit the emergency disconnect on 54s  after instances of incidents where the bow thruster wouldn't stop. The thermal switch should provide that safety stop, but maybe they felt there should be a manual override too, in case.

By the way, it was in the same sentence as "have the genset running when you use the bow thruster" that raised a few eyebrows in this group a while back. At the time, not knowing better, I took it for granted. Sufficient and safe, yes. Necessary?, I'm not sure. We don't do it anymore as we don't go to marinas that much and when we do, we try to play the game of least-bow-thruster-usage to improve our handling skills, and our batteries can handle the high current discharge.


Fair winds!

Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Curacao



On Thu, 28 Jun 2018 at 05:38, 'Mohammad Shirloo' mshirloo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Thomas;
 
Your fuse may have been added on because I've heard some surveyors and insurance companies regard this situation as unsafe and will require the fuse to be added. I'm pretty sure that we were told by Olivier during our survey that the bow thruster is directly connected to the batteries. When I inquired about the reason, I believe the response was that Amel felt that the safety of the boat, when absolutely needing the bow thruster to be operational, was more important than the possibility of the bow thruster being damaged due to overuse.
 
The emergency disconnect is a manually operated switch which would require intervention form a person to stop current flowing to the bow thruster.
 
Respectfully;
Mohammad and Aty
B&B Kokomo
Amel 54 #099
 


From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 2:01 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat

 


Hi Mohammad,

On Garulfo (54-122) there is also a 425A fuse on the positive cable and an emergency disconnect (big red button), both housed in the box inside the forward locker. 

I recently found the emergency disconnect to be rusted frozen so it's on the list for replacement. 

I would encourage others to test the emergency disconnect as it has a carbon steel backing plate and is mounted without any kind of waterproofing so is bound to rust. 

Fair winds,

Thomas 
GARULFO
A54-122
Curacao 


On Wed, 27 Jun 2018 at 19:27, 'Mohammad Shirloo' mshirloo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hello Reudi;
 
Yes, the Amel 54 has a thermal cutoff to prevent damage to the thruster as well as continuous high current draw (Around 550 Amps at 24V) which could lead to fire on board. We've had the thermal cutoff kick in  only a couple of times and it has reset in a matter of minutes. We have not timed the exact reset duration.
 
I'm not aware of any adjustments in the thermal cutoff. The bow thruster has a direct connection to the batteries without a breaker. The thermal cutoff is the only safety items preventing major damage to the thruster and/or wiring.
 
Try to use the thruster in bursts (less than 15 seconds), as much as possible, so it has time to cool down between usage. We try to over correct a bit when we use use the BT so as the bow falls off, the BT has more time to cool.
 
Respectfully;
Mohammad Shirloo
323-633-2222 Cell
310-644-0908 Fax
 


From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 9:58 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...


Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat


 

Dear Forum

On my Amel-54 I discovered that the bow truster stops working after repeatingly use within 10-15 min timeframe.

I used the bow truster a bit more than usual when I practiced some manouvers first time; - and on a second occation when I had to manouver in a marina with a lot of windguests of 18+ kn and another chain over my Anker..

It stopped working and after a while (maybe 10 min.) it re-started & operated normaly. I know BT Is not made for constant use, - only few seconds at a time. Then wait and re-use another time.

Question from a beginner:

Does the bow truster has a termic fuse which is activated after some time of usage to save the motor from overheating? 

Does anyone know exactly how it works and if this can be adjusted because I think the BT on Wasabi switches of quite fast. Any ideas or other information?

Best regards

Ruedi

SY Wasabi A54#55

Sailing Cyclades GR.




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel 54 Foresail furlers

Porter McRoberts
 

I did this in January. New furlers from Paul at a great discount. Installed in Fort Lauderdale with Nance and Underwood. It’s very reassuring to have renewed confidence in the boat. The possibility of furling issues really debases 
what the boat is all about.   The furlers themselves are bullet proof.... so far. 

The additional issues: no belt changes, retained value of the boat when you sell it, esthetically improved, new seals and a better seal design. 

I hope this nudges anyone on the fence. 

Porter

A54-152 IBIS. 
Panama City 




Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 

On Jun 29, 2018, at 9:37 AM, 'Mohammad Shirloo' mshirloo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hello Arno;
 
The offer through Paul is available until 6/30/18. We have just ordered two of them.
 
In our analysis and talking to others who have installed them, it made sense to do it now. The pricing offered is well below retail.
 
Respectfully;
Mohammad Shirloo
323-633-2222 Cell
310-644-0908 Fax
 


From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2018 2:45 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel 54 Foresail furlers

 

Arno,

As per Q1 2018 original 2017 offer was NO longer available; a new (higher priced) proposal  was made via

Paul Hrabowsky

Bamar North American & Carribean Distributor

604.728.7445

paul@...

  

which I understand has now expired as well.

Best Regards Teun

AMELIT  54 – 128

NOUMEA NEW CALEDONIA

Jun 29, 2018   20:43:46

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2018 1:26 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel 54 Foresail furlers

 

Hi Forum,

A while ago I noticed a conversation about getting new furlers for the Amel 54 at a group rate. Does someone know what the actual state of this initiative is?

Thanks,

Arno Luijten


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: A54 Sleipner bowthruster uneven brush wear

Sv Garulfo
 

Hi Peter and all,
Attached pictures of the 4 relays we currently have installed on our A54.
We couldn't find any references for the brushes. Pls let us know if you have made any progress on this since your last email.

Thanks
Regards
Soraya
GARULFO, A54-122


On 16 June 2018 at 14:11, Peter Forbes ppsforbes@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

This forum is just amazing - I have have just had the same problem [Bow Thruster] (lots of carbon dust and therefore probably worn out brushes) not the one side thrust (but that’s interesting too). On Carango A 54#035.


Can anyone tell me the part number or description of the relays I should have as spares (I am away from boat for now) and also the part number or dimensions of the brushes which I am sure need replacement.

I presume the springs have to be removed to change the brushes?. Quite a fiddle job as the screws are so small with large hole beneath and some on the aft, difficult to see side of the motor,

Thank you

Peter
Pete Forbes
Carango 
River Azul South Brittany, France


Peter Forbes
00447836 209730

On 7 Jun 2018, at 01:41, Bill Rouse brouse@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Thanks for the details.


Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www..amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

On Wed, Jun 6, 2018, 12:54 'S/V Garulfo' svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Hi Bill and 54 owners,

The issue with the Port-only-thrusting was resolved by removing and dismantling the double-solenoid power relay. After cleaning the contacts with sandpaper and corrosionX-ing the springs, it functioned correctly again. The issue was confusing because each relay would behave correctly independently (connecting the top posts and disconnecting the bottom ones) but activating the starboard one would cause the other one to loose its bottom (idle) connection(!). 

Some more info I gathered in the meantime:

* The front relay (red and blue wires) is activated for starboard operation. The back relay (red and grey wires) for port. 
* Power cables are marked A1, A2, D1, D2. A1 and A2 are the stator posts, D1 and D2 are the rotor bobin posts.
* the rotor and stator circuits are in series.. The voltage of the rotor is reversed depending on direction. 
* A1 is permanently connected to batteries Neg. A2, D1 and D2 are controlled by the relays. 
* on idle, A2, D1 and D2 are connected together. 
* on Starboard, the front relay connects D2 to batteries Pos (top posts). A2 and D1 are still connected by the bottom posts of the back relay. Circuit is: Pos=D2-rotor-D1=A2-stator-A1=Neg
* on Port, the back relay connects D1 to batteries Pos (top posts). A2 and D2 are still connected by the bottom posts of the front relay. Circuit is: Pos=D1-rotor-D2=A2-stator-A1=Neg

Hope that will help,

Fair winds and happy thrusting

(Oh, and the ground circuit leak got resolved too in the operation. Not sure exactly how, but it did)

Thomas
GARULFO
AMEL 54 #122
Bonaire 


On Mon, 28 May 2018 at 21:43, S/V Garulfo <svgarulfo@...> wrote:
Hi Bill,

I agree the motor is probably fine, as it can run in one direction. 
I can hear the big Albright double-solenoid motor-reversing contactor click for both starboard and port operation. So joystick is innocent.

I think i know what 4 relays you mean (in the plastic junction box) but didn't foresee they played a part in the thrusting operation. I assumed it was only the raising/lowering of the thruster, and that my problem was closer to the Side-Power unit. 

I measured voltage on the Albright contactor posts in port/starboard/idle operation to see if I can reverse engineer what is supposed to happen to the 4 power cables going into the motor.. Need to look at the results with a fresh pair of eyes in the morning. And maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree.


Thanks as always,


Thomas 
GARULFO
AMEL 54 #122
Bonaire 

On Mon, 28 May 2018 at 21:02, Bill Rouse brouse@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Thomas,

It is probably not the motor and is either the joystick or one of the 4 relays. 

Eliminate the joystick first.... 

It is unlikely that your relays are numbered because out of about 10 54s, I have only seen 1 with numbered relays, but they are all the same relay. If all 54s are wired the same, I think it will be relay #2, but, if you have a spare relay, it is easy enough to replace them one at a time until you find the culprit. Of course the problem can be corrosion between the relay terminals and the female spade connectors.

If I owned a 54, I would have 4 spare relays.

Good Luck!

On Mon, May 28, 2018 at 4:22 PM, 'S/V Garulfo' svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Hi Scott,

Talking of the devil...

I haven't looked into the carbon dust and brushes yet, cause I reconnected the thruster for a quick stop in a marina and after the initial 'all-good' tests, it decided to only thrust to port and not starboard....
So I've got a second issue to troubleshoot. If anyone has experienced it and has clues, it's very welcome.. 

I'll check the state of the brushes for uneven wear too, to give you another data point.. 
Note that i don't have an oil reservoir in my unit.


Fair winds to all,

Thomas
GARULFO
AMEL 54 #122
Bonaire 

On Mon, 28 May 2018 at 05:54, cpp_berkeley <no_reply@...> wrote:

Craig,


Answers to your questions below:

1) After we let it cool down (~30 minutes) it ran fine. Perhaps a bit weaker but that's probably to be expected considering that some of the brushes have worn down considerably and actually even cracked, exposing just bare conductors. My fear is that going forward, it will continue to overheat prematurely and leave us without a bow thruster when we most need it.

2) The sidepower bowthruster has a drain plug underwater between the two props and a fill reservoir in the bow locker. Obviously oil is changed on the hard. My understanding is that the way to change the oil is to open the plug and continue filling the reservoir until the oil coming out of the plug looks clean. That way, you don't get air into the system.

The mechanic drained all of the oil and he put the plug back and filled the reservoir. The next day, the oil level had dropped, indicating that the air migrated upwards (and/or the thick oil slowly migrated downwards). This drop in oil level continued for a few days. It seems reasonably stable now, but I'm unsure whether some air was still stuck in the gearleg and never made its way out..


Also, we now have a strong "Mass -" leak. Thomas of S/V Garulfo posted that he had a bow thruster leak, possibly from carbon dust. I'll go check that now and report back.

But in general, any idea why the carbon brushes would be wearing so unevenly?


Scott

A54 #69 

S/V Tengah 



Hi Scott,

Your post raises a couple of questions. 
1. You say the unit had a thermal shutdown - did it work after it cooled  down?  Any problems?
2. In what way did the mechanic have trouble getting air out of the system? On the SN and SM one simply turns the bottom section upside down to drain and then pours in new oil. No issue with air. Perhaps the 54 is a different design that I'm not familiar with.

Craig



Hi all,


I was coming into the quay at Zante yesterday in our A54 with about 10-15 knots on the beam and used the sidepower bow thruster in 10-15 second bursts and all of the sudden, thermal shutdown!


After executing an exciting no thruster stern-to med mooring into a tight spot (with expectant spectators!) I opened up the bow thruster compartment to see a lot of carbon dust. I took the motor cover off and inspected the brushes and found that for each of the pairs (4 pairs, 8 total brushes), one was worn MUCH more than the other one. On some pairs, it's the top one that was worn more, on some, it was the bottom one. Some brushes were down to loose wire.


On the attached photo, you can see the extent of the uneven wear for one pair.


We recently had the boatyard change the bowthruster oil and they drained it all before adding new oil, which resulted in challenges getting all the air out of the system. We then completed a 1350 mile passage. These probably have nothing to do with it, but maybe I'm wrong.


Before I go out and spend money to replace the brushes and possibly experience similar uneven wear, anyone have any ideas as to why this happened and how to rectify it?


Thanks!


Scott

A54 #69 

S/V Tengah 



 




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel 54 Foresail furlers

Mohammad Shirloo
 

Hello Arno;
 
The offer through Paul is available until 6/30/18. We have just ordered two of them.
 
In our analysis and talking to others who have installed them, it made sense to do it now. The pricing offered is well below retail.
 
Respectfully;
Mohammad Shirloo
323-633-2222 Cell
310-644-0908 Fax
 



From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2018 2:45 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel 54 Foresail furlers

 

Arno,

As per Q1 2018 original 2017 offer was NO longer available; a new (higher priced) proposal  was made via

Paul Hrabowsky

Bamar North American & Carribean Distributor

604.728.7445

paul@...

  

which I understand has now expired as well.

Best Regards Teun

AMELIT  54 – 128

NOUMEA NEW CALEDONIA

Jun 29, 2018   20:43:46

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2018 1:26 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel 54 Foresail furlers

 

Hi Forum,

A while ago I noticed a conversation about getting new furlers for the Amel 54 at a group rate. Does someone know what the actual state of this initiative is?

Thanks,

Arno Luijten


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Frigoboat re-charging

Craig Briggs
 

Paul,

In addition to Ian's excellent info, you'll want to be sure to install a new dryer each time you open/evacuate the system, especially with your moisture issue. Since Ian didn't mention it, I'm guessing your units may have had Frigoboat's pre-charged freon lines with no drier, but since you're opening the system for evacuation it's critical to install one - very simple and $25.. (I've got Northern Lights refrigeration which doesn't use pre-charged lines, so a drier is standard.)

Cheers, Craig Briggs, SN68 Sangaris, Brunswick, GA


---In amelyachtowners@..., <sharongbrown@...> wrote :

Ian,

Thanks for the detailed info - that's a great help. The 54 has a Frigoboat with connectors for both high & low pressure. It does seem then that I have a blockage then. I'm in Antigua so finding a vacuum pump at reasonable price may be a bit challenging. If I do find one, then what is the procedure to use it? I assume I connect to the service port in the manifold (the centre one), but then which side do I open - high or low?

Cheers,
Paul


Re: Amel 54 Foresail furlers

Arno Luijten
 

Hi Teun,

Thanks for that.

How is your new yacht treating you?
Did you get the new furlers?

Regards,

Arno


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel 54 Foresail furlers

Teun BAAS
 

Arno,

 

As per Q1 2018 original 2017 offer was NO longer available; a new (higher priced) proposal  was made via

 

Paul Hrabowsky

Bamar North American & Carribean Distributor

604.728.7445

paul@...

  

which I understand has now expired as well.

 

Best Regards Teun

AMELIT  54 – 128

NOUMEA NEW CALEDONIA

 

Jun 29, 2018   20:43:46

 

 

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2018 1:26 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel 54 Foresail furlers

 

 

Hi Forum,

 

A while ago I noticed a conversation about getting new furlers for the Amel 54 at a group rate. Does someone know what the actual state of this initiative is?

 

Thanks,

 

Arno Luijten

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