Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] GP150 GPS Data Output Fault

Dean Gillies
 

Hi Bill,
Thanks for those suggestions.
I did check the manual in detail and have even reset the unit to factory defaults, but no go.
I am not near a dealer, and I’m moving around so the repair option (if they are interested in doing that) will have to wait. I’ll try the UK as I might be able to organise that in the coming months.

I found those second hand units on eBay earlier today, but they don’t ship to anywhere near me.

I might reconfigure my system tomorrow to use the MFD as the source. This may also solve a problem I posted about previously where there is no heading data at the Hydra display.

Cheers
Dean



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Diaphragm Bilge Pump failure.

 

James,

Thanks for the detail information...great test!

That output is about 22 liters/min and lower than the OEM. The OEM MARINA ZZ was spec'd at 32 liters/min.

It is a difficult choice, with no clear winner, but I suggest this pump as the best substitute available today:


Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970






On Sat, Jun 30, 2018 at 12:08 PM lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Bill,


   A while back we were discussing the Sealand T series pump as a possible replacement for the original bilge pump and wondering what the flow rate would be.  I just installed one of the these pumps and did a test for you.  Here are the conditions:

1.  Sealand T series pump operating at 13.3 volts.
2.  1 1/2" hose used for the pickup and discharge.
3.  Length of pickup hose to pump 7 1/2'
4.  Length of discharge hose:  2 1/2'
5.  Gentle bends in hose shields corrugated exhaust hose.
6.  Discharge is into a 1 1/2" tee fitting for a scupper drain that is above the waterline.
7.  Pickup is fitted with a Whale coarse plastic strainer, probably some restriction.
8.  Total lift is approx. 6'  (if you need a more accurate measurement let me know) 

Test procedure:  The bilge was pumped down until the T series pump was just starting to suck air.  5 measured gallons of water were added to the bilge and the pump was run until it just began sucking air.  Time required:  52 seconds, so it appears that the capacity for this installation is about 345 gph.  

Sorry that it took a while to get this data to you.

Best,

James Alton
SV Sueño
Maramu #220


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Diaphragm Bilge Pump failure.

James Alton
 

Bill,

   A while back we were discussing the Sealand T series pump as a possible replacement for the original bilge pump and wondering what the flow rate would be.  I just installed one of the these pumps and did a test for you.  Here are the conditions:

1.  Sealand T series pump operating at 13.3 volts.
2.  1 1/2" hose used for the pickup and discharge.
3.  Length of pickup hose to pump 7 1/2'
4.  Length of discharge hose:  2 1/2'
5.  Gentle bends in hose shields corrugated exhaust hose.
6.  Discharge is into a 1 1/2" tee fitting for a scupper drain that is above the waterline.
7.  Pickup is fitted with a Whale coarse plastic strainer, probably some restriction.
8.  Total lift is approx. 6'  (if you need a more accurate measurement let me know) 

Test procedure:  The bilge was pumped down until the T series pump was just starting to suck air.  5 measured gallons of water were added to the bilge and the pump was run until it just began sucking air.  Time required:  52 seconds, so it appears that the capacity for this installation is about 345 gph.  

Sorry that it took a while to get this data to you.

Best,

James Alton
SV Sueño
Maramu #220


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] GP150 GPS Data Output Fault

 

Dean,

Here are 4 choices for you:
  1. You should go to Input/Output Setting on Page 14 of your Furuno Manual and make sure all is set correctly.
  2. A Furuno Dealer can likely repair your GP 150.
  3. Here is a used GP 150: https://www.ebay.com/itm/FURUNO-GPS-Navigator-GP-150-Used/263718096794?hash=item3d66d2cf9a:g:uGYAAOSwMM9bCwpg
  4. The GP 90 has the same footprint and NMEA 0183 data output as the GP 150. Here is a used GP 90: https://www.ebay.com/itm/FURUNO-GPS-Navigator-GP-90-Display-Unit/162821591463?epid=665585165&hash=item25e8ec51a7:g:yDYAAOSwVF1aQpj1

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970






On Sat, Jun 30, 2018 at 11:06 AM trifin@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi All,

I seem to have a fault with my Furuno GP-150 GPS unit, where it has stopped outputting NMEA0183 data on all ports. The fault results in position/time data appearing on neither the ICOM505 radio nor the Hydra3000 display. There is also no GPS data going to the MFD12 chart plotters either.


I was a bit confused for a while because the chart plotters seemed to be still getting GPS data, however I’ve discovered that this is being sourced from the AIS FA50 over Ethernet and not from the GP-150 (even though the GP150 is wired to send NMEA0183 data to the chart plotter).


I’m wondering if anyone else has experienced this fault, and if so, what was your solution?


The GP150 is no longer sold, maybe there’s a second hand option?

Repair option?


I could also reconfigure my system and have the chart plotter route GPS LatLon and GPS Time to the Icom and Hydra. I don’t like this solution for reliability reasons, but maybe a temporary solution while GP150 gets repaired.


Maybe there is another product which can replace the GP150?


It’s not critical to have the data on the Hydra, but I want it on the radio for safety reasons.


Cheers

Dean

SY Stella 

Amel 54#154



GP150 GPS Data Output Fault

Dean Gillies
 

Hi All,

I seem to have a fault with my Furuno GP-150 GPS unit, where it has stopped outputting NMEA0183 data on all ports. The fault results in position/time data appearing on neither the ICOM505 radio nor the Hydra3000 display. There is also no GPS data going to the MFD12 chart plotters either.


I was a bit confused for a while because the chart plotters seemed to be still getting GPS data, however I’ve discovered that this is being sourced from the AIS FA50 over Ethernet and not from the GP-150 (even though the GP150 is wired to send NMEA0183 data to the chart plotter).


I’m wondering if anyone else has experienced this fault, and if so, what was your solution?


The GP150 is no longer sold, maybe there’s a second hand option?

Repair option?


I could also reconfigure my system and have the chart plotter route GPS LatLon and GPS Time to the Icom and Hydra. I don’t like this solution for reliability reasons, but maybe a temporary solution while GP150 gets repaired.


Maybe there is another product which can replace the GP150?


It’s not critical to have the data on the Hydra, but I want it on the radio for safety reasons.


Cheers

Dean

SY Stella 

Amel 54#154



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat

amelliahona <no_reply@...>
 

All; 

 I have enjoyed this discussion and echo the thoughts of Olivier et al.  I would also suggest that the genset on/charger on concept is a good idea when using the windlass as well.  DC motors just do best when the voltage is higher end of the design limits.  

Sincerely, 

Gary S. Silver
s/v Liahona
Amel SM 2000 #335
Puerto Del Rey, Puerto Rico


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat

Mohammad Shirloo
 

Reudi;
 
There are many aspects that affect the life of a diesel engine. If properly maintained and regularly run under proper load it is not unusual for a diesel engine to run in the 15,000 to 20,000 hours. We cruise for about half the year currently and we only put about 200 hours per year. So the lifetime of a diesel engine could last well beyond the average cruising life time.
 
Respectfully;
Mohammad Shirloo
323-633-2222 Cell
310-644-0908 Fax
 


From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2018 12:33 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat

 

Hello Olivier and Forum

Thanks a lot for your advice and it perfectly make sense what you say. I was not thinking of this Voltage aspects!
BTW, 
Do you have an ideas what is the average lifetime of such an ONAN GenSet in hours and years? 

Fair winds and take care. 
Best regards
Ruedi
SY WASABI A54#55

Von: <amelyachtowners@...> on behalf of "Beaute Olivier atlanticyachtsurvey@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Antworten an: <amelyachtowners@...>
Datum: Freitag, 29. Juni 2018 um 20:20
An: <amelyachtowners@...>
Betreff: Re: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat

 

Hello all AMEL 54 owners,

there is indeed a thermic switch on the bow-thruster motor. It is connected to one of the carbon brushes. If you have already had it stop the motor, several times, or you purchased a used boat and you don't know about the over-use of the bow-thruster by the former owner, it may be time to check the carbon brushes of this motor.
Indeed, worn out brushes lead to warming up where the brushes make contact with the rotor. And worn out brushes make the motor less powerful, then you may use it a longer time for the same amount of thrust.
If you see a lot of carbon dust around your BT motor, it's time to check/replace them.

Moreover, when AMEL says that you should turn ON the generator when using the bow-thruster (and the 100A battery charger), this is because the bow-thruster will work with higher voltage (the voltage drop will be less if the charger is ON, and as the main engine alternator is not charging much at low revs). With higher voltage, the amperage will be less, the warming up of the thermic switch too and the wear of the carbon brushes too.

Now, I agree that you don't absolutely need to turn on the generator and battery charger in any conditions. But do it if you enter a harbor that you don't know (you may use the BT a lot) or if the wind is strong.

In the french Navy, when a vessel enters a harbor, every means of power is systematically turned ON, in case one fails. Bill R will tell us how they do in the US Navy, but it may be the same.
This was the idea of Captain AMEL and Mr. Carteau when they decided to give the "Generator ON when docking" advice.

Rüdi, don't worry about too much wear on your generator, it is a very resistant piece of hardware....


Keep enjoying easy dockings!!

Olivier

On Friday, June 29, 2018, 5:42:37 PM GMT+2, 'Mohammad Shirloo' mshirloo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 

Reudi;
 
The main reason to run the Genset while using the bow thruster is not to reduce the load on the batteries. Putting out 400-500A for short bursts will not have a significant negative effect on the batteries.
 
By running the Genset you are maintaining a higher voltage to the bow thruster, reducing the current requirement and thus reducing the heat generated in the bow thruster and all associated wiring supplying the bow thruster. This will maximize the time the bow thruster will function before the thermal cutoff kicks in.  Therefore for us it is not a calculation of battery vs. generator life, but an issue of safety. A few extra seconds of bow thruster availability may make a big difference in the result of the maneuver.
 
Respectfully;
Mohammad Shirloo
323-633-2222 Cell
310-644-0908 Fax
 


From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2018 8:32 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat

 

Thanks for all your thoughtful responses. This is a great forum and I have learned a lot within a short time about AMEL. I love it!

Here some comments on your responses: 

I’m not using the bow truster more than 5-6 seconds per burst. When I use it, I’m carefully not to overdue and I usualy waiting to cool down a bit between 2 burst. Thats why I was wondering how fast it was paused by the system….

No, I don’t use generator while use the bow truster, as AMEL and many others recommending. I agree with Thomas about it. 
- In one hand the Engine is running always when use the BT and is supporting the batteries as well . 
- On the other hand I do not extensively use the BT so my Batteries should be able to carry the load. 

- AND most important; I don’t want to shorten the live of my GenSet just to help the batteries a bit.
In my opinion is; The live of a Diesel engine is shorten by too many short usage without much load and without running it at leased 30min at a time. When I turn the GenSet on, I use it for many things at the time, Laundry, Water-maker, heater, charging, whatsoever. Therefore it runs at leased an hour when it’s on.

BTW: 
We don’t had the 425A fuse on #55 either. Olivier recommended to install it and also an emergency shutoff in the BT compartment . So we did. ;-)

Fair winds!
Ruedi 
WASABI A54/55
Kithnos

Von: <amelyachtowners@...> on behalf of "'S/V Garulfo' svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Antworten an: <amelyachtowners@...>
Datum: Donnerstag, 28. Juni 2018 um 13:33
An: <amelyachtowners@...>
Betreff: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat

 

Hi Mohammad and Aty,

So you don't have that 425A fuse on Kokomo?
It'd be interesting to have other data points. 

When we started seeing A54s for sale, someone from the yard in Hyères told us Amel started to fit the emergency disconnect on 54s  after instances of incidents where the bow thruster wouldn't stop. The thermal switch should provide that safety stop, but maybe they felt there should be a manual override too, in case.

By the way, it was in the same sentence as "have the genset running when you use the bow thruster" that raised a few eyebrows in this group a while back. At the time, not knowing better, I took it for granted. Sufficient and safe, yes. Necessary?, I'm not sure. We don't do it anymore as we don't go to marinas that much and when we do, we try to play the game of least-bow-thruster-usage to improve our handling skills, and our batteries can handle the high current discharge.


Fair winds!

Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Curacao



On Thu, 28 Jun 2018 at 05:38, 'Mohammad Shirloo' mshirloo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Thomas;
 
Your fuse may have been added on because I've heard some surveyors and insurance companies regard this situation as unsafe and will require the fuse to be added. I'm pretty sure that we were told by Olivier during our survey that the bow thruster is directly connected to the batteries. When I inquired about the reason, I believe the response was that Amel felt that the safety of the boat, when absolutely needing the bow thruster to be operational, was more important than the possibility of the bow thruster being damaged due to overuse.
 
The emergency disconnect is a manually operated switch which would require intervention form a person to stop current flowing to the bow thruster.
 
Respectfully;
Mohammad and Aty
B&B Kokomo
Amel 54 #099
 


From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 2:01 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat

 


Hi Mohammad,

On Garulfo (54-122) there is also a 425A fuse on the positive cable and an emergency disconnect (big red button), both housed in the box inside the forward locker. 

I recently found the emergency disconnect to be rusted frozen so it's on the list for replacement. 

I would encourage others to test the emergency disconnect as it has a carbon steel backing plate and is mounted without any kind of waterproofing so is bound to rust. 

Fair winds,

Thomas 
GARULFO
A54-122
Curacao 


On Wed, 27 Jun 2018 at 19:27, 'Mohammad Shirloo' mshirloo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hello Reudi;
 
Yes, the Amel 54 has a thermal cutoff to prevent damage to the thruster as well as continuous high current draw (Around 550 Amps at 24V) which could lead to fire on board. We've had the thermal cutoff kick in  only a couple of times and it has reset in a matter of minutes. We have not timed the exact reset duration.
 
I'm not aware of any adjustments in the thermal cutoff. The bow thruster has a direct connection to the batteries without a breaker. The thermal cutoff is the only safety items preventing major damage to the thruster and/or wiring.
 
Try to use the thruster in bursts (less than 15 seconds), as much as possible, so it has time to cool down between usage. We try to over correct a bit when we use use the BT so as the bow falls off, the BT has more time to cool.
 
Respectfully;
Mohammad Shirloo
323-633-2222 Cell
310-644-0908 Fax
 


From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 9:58 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...


Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat


 

Dear Forum

On my Amel-54 I discovered that the bow truster stops working after repeatingly use within 10-15 min timeframe.

I used the bow truster a bit more than usual when I practiced some manouvers first time; - and on a second occation when I had to manouver in a marina with a lot of windguests of 18+ kn and another chain over my Anker...

It stopped working and after a while (maybe 10 min.) it re-started & operated normaly. I know BT Is not made for constant use, - only few seconds at a time. Then wait and re-use another time.

Question from a beginner:

Does the bow truster has a termic fuse which is activated after some time of usage to save the motor from overheating? 

Does anyone know exactly how it works and if this can be adjusted because I think the BT on Wasabi switches of quite fast. Any ideas or other information?

Best regards

Ruedi

SY Wasabi A54#55

Sailing Cyclades GR.




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat

Rudolf Waldispuehl
 

Thanks a lot, I learned something important! Also from Olivier's response.
Sincerely 
Ruedi

Von: <amelyachtowners@...> on behalf of "'Mohammad Shirloo' mshirloo@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Antworten an: <amelyachtowners@...>
Datum: Freitag, 29. Juni 2018 um 18:56
An: <amelyachtowners@...>
Betreff: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat

 

Reudi;
 
The main reason to run the Genset while using the bow thruster is not to reduce the load on the batteries. Putting out 400-500A for short bursts will not have a significant negative effect on the batteries.
 
By running the Genset you are maintaining a higher voltage to the bow thruster, reducing the current requirement and thus reducing the heat generated in the bow thruster and all associated wiring supplying the bow thruster. This will maximize the time the bow thruster will function before the thermal cutoff kicks in.  Therefore for us it is not a calculation of battery vs. generator life, but an issue of safety. A few extra seconds of bow thruster availability may make a big difference in the result of the maneuver.
 
Respectfully;
Mohammad Shirloo
323-633-2222 Cell
310-644-0908 Fax
 



From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2018 8:32 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat

 

Thanks for all your thoughtful responses. This is a great forum and I have learned a lot within a short time about AMEL. I love it!

Here some comments on your responses: 

I’m not using the bow truster more than 5-6 seconds per burst. When I use it, I’m carefully not to overdue and I usualy waiting to cool down a bit between 2 burst. Thats why I was wondering how fast it was paused by the system….

No, I don’t use generator while use the bow truster, as AMEL and many others recommending. I agree with Thomas about it. 
- In one hand the Engine is running always when use the BT and is supporting the batteries as well . 
- On the other hand I do not extensively use the BT so my Batteries should be able to carry the load. 

- AND most important; I don’t want to shorten the live of my GenSet just to help the batteries a bit.
In my opinion is; The live of a Diesel engine is shorten by too many short usage without much load and without running it at leased 30min at a time. When I turn the GenSet on, I use it for many things at the time, Laundry, Water-maker, heater, charging, whatsoever. Therefore it runs at leased an hour when it’s on.

BTW: 
We don’t had the 425A fuse on #55 either. Olivier recommended to install it and also an emergency shutoff in the BT compartment . So we did. ;-)

Fair winds!
Ruedi 
WASABI A54/55
Kithnos

Von: <amelyachtowners@...> on behalf of "'S/V Garulfo' svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Antworten an: <amelyachtowners@...>
Datum: Donnerstag, 28. Juni 2018 um 13:33
An: <amelyachtowners@...>
Betreff: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat

 

Hi Mohammad and Aty,

So you don't have that 425A fuse on Kokomo?
It'd be interesting to have other data points. 

When we started seeing A54s for sale, someone from the yard in Hyères told us Amel started to fit the emergency disconnect on 54s  after instances of incidents where the bow thruster wouldn't stop. The thermal switch should provide that safety stop, but maybe they felt there should be a manual override too, in case.

By the way, it was in the same sentence as "have the genset running when you use the bow thruster" that raised a few eyebrows in this group a while back. At the time, not knowing better, I took it for granted. Sufficient and safe, yes. Necessary?, I'm not sure. We don't do it anymore as we don't go to marinas that much and when we do, we try to play the game of least-bow-thruster-usage to improve our handling skills, and our batteries can handle the high current discharge.


Fair winds!

Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Curacao



On Thu, 28 Jun 2018 at 05:38, 'Mohammad Shirloo' mshirloo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Thomas;
 
Your fuse may have been added on because I've heard some surveyors and insurance companies regard this situation as unsafe and will require the fuse to be added. I'm pretty sure that we were told by Olivier during our survey that the bow thruster is directly connected to the batteries. When I inquired about the reason, I believe the response was that Amel felt that the safety of the boat, when absolutely needing the bow thruster to be operational, was more important than the possibility of the bow thruster being damaged due to overuse.
 
The emergency disconnect is a manually operated switch which would require intervention form a person to stop current flowing to the bow thruster.
 
Respectfully;
Mohammad and Aty
B&B Kokomo
Amel 54 #099
 


From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 2:01 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat

 


Hi Mohammad,

On Garulfo (54-122) there is also a 425A fuse on the positive cable and an emergency disconnect (big red button), both housed in the box inside the forward locker. 

I recently found the emergency disconnect to be rusted frozen so it's on the list for replacement. 

I would encourage others to test the emergency disconnect as it has a carbon steel backing plate and is mounted without any kind of waterproofing so is bound to rust. 

Fair winds,

Thomas 
GARULFO
A54-122
Curacao 


On Wed, 27 Jun 2018 at 19:27, 'Mohammad Shirloo' mshirloo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hello Reudi;
 
Yes, the Amel 54 has a thermal cutoff to prevent damage to the thruster as well as continuous high current draw (Around 550 Amps at 24V) which could lead to fire on board. We've had the thermal cutoff kick in  only a couple of times and it has reset in a matter of minutes. We have not timed the exact reset duration.
 
I'm not aware of any adjustments in the thermal cutoff. The bow thruster has a direct connection to the batteries without a breaker. The thermal cutoff is the only safety items preventing major damage to the thruster and/or wiring.
 
Try to use the thruster in bursts (less than 15 seconds), as much as possible, so it has time to cool down between usage. We try to over correct a bit when we use use the BT so as the bow falls off, the BT has more time to cool.
 
Respectfully;
Mohammad Shirloo
323-633-2222 Cell
310-644-0908 Fax
 


From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 9:58 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...


Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat


 

Dear Forum

On my Amel-54 I discovered that the bow truster stops working after repeatingly use within 10-15 min timeframe.

I used the bow truster a bit more than usual when I practiced some manouvers first time; - and on a second occation when I had to manouver in a marina with a lot of windguests of 18+ kn and another chain over my Anker...

It stopped working and after a while (maybe 10 min.) it re-started & operated normaly. I know BT Is not made for constant use, - only few seconds at a time. Then wait and re-use another time.

Question from a beginner:

Does the bow truster has a termic fuse which is activated after some time of usage to save the motor from overheating? 

Does anyone know exactly how it works and if this can be adjusted because I think the BT on Wasabi switches of quite fast. Any ideas or other information?

Best regards

Ruedi

SY Wasabi A54#55

Sailing Cyclades GR.




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat

Rudolf Waldispuehl
 

Hello Olivier and Forum

Thanks a lot for your advice and it perfectly make sense what you say. I was not thinking of this Voltage aspects!
BTW, 
Do you have an ideas what is the average lifetime of such an ONAN GenSet in hours and years? 

Fair winds and take care. 
Best regards
Ruedi
SY WASABI A54#55

Von: <amelyachtowners@...> on behalf of "Beaute Olivier atlanticyachtsurvey@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Antworten an: <amelyachtowners@...>
Datum: Freitag, 29. Juni 2018 um 20:20
An: <amelyachtowners@...>
Betreff: Re: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat

 

Hello all AMEL 54 owners,

there is indeed a thermic switch on the bow-thruster motor. It is connected to one of the carbon brushes. If you have already had it stop the motor, several times, or you purchased a used boat and you don't know about the over-use of the bow-thruster by the former owner, it may be time to check the carbon brushes of this motor.
Indeed, worn out brushes lead to warming up where the brushes make contact with the rotor. And worn out brushes make the motor less powerful, then you may use it a longer time for the same amount of thrust.
If you see a lot of carbon dust around your BT motor, it's time to check/replace them.

Moreover, when AMEL says that you should turn ON the generator when using the bow-thruster (and the 100A battery charger), this is because the bow-thruster will work with higher voltage (the voltage drop will be less if the charger is ON, and as the main engine alternator is not charging much at low revs). With higher voltage, the amperage will be less, the warming up of the thermic switch too and the wear of the carbon brushes too.

Now, I agree that you don't absolutely need to turn on the generator and battery charger in any conditions. But do it if you enter a harbor that you don't know (you may use the BT a lot) or if the wind is strong.

In the french Navy, when a vessel enters a harbor, every means of power is systematically turned ON, in case one fails. Bill R will tell us how they do in the US Navy, but it may be the same.
This was the idea of Captain AMEL and Mr. Carteau when they decided to give the "Generator ON when docking" advice.

Rüdi, don't worry about too much wear on your generator, it is a very resistant piece of hardware...


Keep enjoying easy dockings!!

Olivier

On Friday, June 29, 2018, 5:42:37 PM GMT+2, 'Mohammad Shirloo' mshirloo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 

Reudi;
 
The main reason to run the Genset while using the bow thruster is not to reduce the load on the batteries. Putting out 400-500A for short bursts will not have a significant negative effect on the batteries.
 
By running the Genset you are maintaining a higher voltage to the bow thruster, reducing the current requirement and thus reducing the heat generated in the bow thruster and all associated wiring supplying the bow thruster. This will maximize the time the bow thruster will function before the thermal cutoff kicks in.  Therefore for us it is not a calculation of battery vs. generator life, but an issue of safety. A few extra seconds of bow thruster availability may make a big difference in the result of the maneuver.
 
Respectfully;
Mohammad Shirloo
323-633-2222 Cell
310-644-0908 Fax
 


From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2018 8:32 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat

 

Thanks for all your thoughtful responses. This is a great forum and I have learned a lot within a short time about AMEL. I love it!

Here some comments on your responses: 

I’m not using the bow truster more than 5-6 seconds per burst. When I use it, I’m carefully not to overdue and I usualy waiting to cool down a bit between 2 burst. Thats why I was wondering how fast it was paused by the system….

No, I don’t use generator while use the bow truster, as AMEL and many others recommending. I agree with Thomas about it. 
- In one hand the Engine is running always when use the BT and is supporting the batteries as well . 
- On the other hand I do not extensively use the BT so my Batteries should be able to carry the load. 

- AND most important; I don’t want to shorten the live of my GenSet just to help the batteries a bit.
In my opinion is; The live of a Diesel engine is shorten by too many short usage without much load and without running it at leased 30min at a time. When I turn the GenSet on, I use it for many things at the time, Laundry, Water-maker, heater, charging, whatsoever. Therefore it runs at leased an hour when it’s on.

BTW: 
We don’t had the 425A fuse on #55 either. Olivier recommended to install it and also an emergency shutoff in the BT compartment . So we did. ;-)

Fair winds!
Ruedi 
WASABI A54/55
Kithnos

Von: <amelyachtowners@...> on behalf of "'S/V Garulfo' svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Antworten an: <amelyachtowners@...>
Datum: Donnerstag, 28. Juni 2018 um 13:33
An: <amelyachtowners@...>
Betreff: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat

 

Hi Mohammad and Aty,

So you don't have that 425A fuse on Kokomo?
It'd be interesting to have other data points. 

When we started seeing A54s for sale, someone from the yard in Hyères told us Amel started to fit the emergency disconnect on 54s  after instances of incidents where the bow thruster wouldn't stop. The thermal switch should provide that safety stop, but maybe they felt there should be a manual override too, in case.

By the way, it was in the same sentence as "have the genset running when you use the bow thruster" that raised a few eyebrows in this group a while back. At the time, not knowing better, I took it for granted. Sufficient and safe, yes. Necessary?, I'm not sure. We don't do it anymore as we don't go to marinas that much and when we do, we try to play the game of least-bow-thruster-usage to improve our handling skills, and our batteries can handle the high current discharge.


Fair winds!

Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Curacao



On Thu, 28 Jun 2018 at 05:38, 'Mohammad Shirloo' mshirloo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Thomas;
 
Your fuse may have been added on because I've heard some surveyors and insurance companies regard this situation as unsafe and will require the fuse to be added. I'm pretty sure that we were told by Olivier during our survey that the bow thruster is directly connected to the batteries. When I inquired about the reason, I believe the response was that Amel felt that the safety of the boat, when absolutely needing the bow thruster to be operational, was more important than the possibility of the bow thruster being damaged due to overuse.
 
The emergency disconnect is a manually operated switch which would require intervention form a person to stop current flowing to the bow thruster.
 
Respectfully;
Mohammad and Aty
B&B Kokomo
Amel 54 #099
 


From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 2:01 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat

 


Hi Mohammad,

On Garulfo (54-122) there is also a 425A fuse on the positive cable and an emergency disconnect (big red button), both housed in the box inside the forward locker. 

I recently found the emergency disconnect to be rusted frozen so it's on the list for replacement. 

I would encourage others to test the emergency disconnect as it has a carbon steel backing plate and is mounted without any kind of waterproofing so is bound to rust. 

Fair winds,

Thomas 
GARULFO
A54-122
Curacao 


On Wed, 27 Jun 2018 at 19:27, 'Mohammad Shirloo' mshirloo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hello Reudi;
 
Yes, the Amel 54 has a thermal cutoff to prevent damage to the thruster as well as continuous high current draw (Around 550 Amps at 24V) which could lead to fire on board. We've had the thermal cutoff kick in  only a couple of times and it has reset in a matter of minutes. We have not timed the exact reset duration.
 
I'm not aware of any adjustments in the thermal cutoff. The bow thruster has a direct connection to the batteries without a breaker. The thermal cutoff is the only safety items preventing major damage to the thruster and/or wiring.
 
Try to use the thruster in bursts (less than 15 seconds), as much as possible, so it has time to cool down between usage. We try to over correct a bit when we use use the BT so as the bow falls off, the BT has more time to cool.
 
Respectfully;
Mohammad Shirloo
323-633-2222 Cell
310-644-0908 Fax
 


From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 9:58 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...


Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat


 

Dear Forum

On my Amel-54 I discovered that the bow truster stops working after repeatingly use within 10-15 min timeframe.

I used the bow truster a bit more than usual when I practiced some manouvers first time; - and on a second occation when I had to manouver in a marina with a lot of windguests of 18+ kn and another chain over my Anker...

It stopped working and after a while (maybe 10 min.) it re-started & operated normaly. I know BT Is not made for constant use, - only few seconds at a time. Then wait and re-use another time.

Question from a beginner:

Does the bow truster has a termic fuse which is activated after some time of usage to save the motor from overheating? 

Does anyone know exactly how it works and if this can be adjusted because I think the BT on Wasabi switches of quite fast. Any ideas or other information?

Best regards

Ruedi

SY Wasabi A54#55

Sailing Cyclades GR.




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Finally a real forum member

ngtnewington Newington
 

Jolly Harbour Budget Marine in Antigua


On 29 Jun 2018, at 03:19, arno.luijten@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Nick,


Quick question; Where did you get the Micron 77 from? I looked at a few chandleries in the Caribbean but did not find it.

Cheers,

Arno


Re: Fresh Water Leak At Aft Head

pacificcool@...
 

Thanks for the great comments. There is at last 5 liters last time I checked so I doubt it cold be the AC unit, but I'll check it anyway.  I had not thought about the shower fresh water lines, just the sink ones.  Thank again.  

Bill Shaproski


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Amel 54 Foresail furlers

Barry Connor
 

Thank’s Guys,
You reminded me also to chase Paul up too.
He replied to me that he will organize when he returns from his holiday on 6th July.  I will be ordering through Nance and Underwood in Florida, I and friends of mine have had business with them in the past and all good experiences. My install through them will be later when we get to US.
Best 

Barry and Penny
“Lady Penelope II”
Amel 54. #17
Trogir. Croatia 


On Jun 29, 2018, at 6:45 PM, arno.luijten@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

I have contacted Paul from Bamar USA. He responded very quickly although he is away for holidays. He will look into this when he gets back (July 6th). He thinks he can serve me as well at the latest proposed rate.

Thanks all,

Arno


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Fresh Water Leak At Aft Head

karkauai
 

Hi Bill.  Not sure how much water you are talking about.  The aft AC unit drains condensation into the gray water system.  If that pan’s drain is occluded, the condensate water could overflow and end up where you describe.

Any leak aft of the bulkhead could end up there, I think, if you are sailing/heeling.

Is your fresh water pump running when all taps are turned off?  If not, it has tone from something in the drainage system, rain water, or AC condensate.

Kent
Kristy
SM 243

On Jun 29, 2018, at 12:35 PM, pacificcool@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

I have SM 141 from 1995.  My current problem is a fresh water leak somewhere in the aft head.  Some time back I noticed that there was a fresh water accumulation in the cavity under the entrance to the aft head.  This is where you can access the head sea cock and where the drain hose from the shower pan passes through going forward.  I was able to confirm that the leak is not from the shower drain hose aft end where it attaches to the shower pan.  So the only other place could be where the drain hose passes through the forward wall of the cavity.  Unfortunately this is very difficult to access.  I was eventually able to put another clamp on the hose and tighten it. 


To isolate the source of the leak I stopped using the aft head completely to determine if that would eliminate the water accumulation.  However, it did not and a large amount of fresh water accumulated in the cavity again.  This time it was much cleaner which led me to believe it must be coming from the hot or cold fresh water supply lines.  But I cannot see how a leaking fresh water supply line would have a path to allow water to enter the cavity in front of the head door.  I turned off the fresh water pump to determine if that would stop the leak.  If yes, then it would confirm that the leak is from one of the supply lines.  But that would not explain how it gets into the cavity. 


One possibility is that there is a leak of one of the fresh water supply lines that leaks into the shower pan and then leaks out where the shower pan drain line exits the cavity at the forward end (where it’s difficult to access).  Unfortunately, I’m not at the boat now so cannot determine if turning off the fresh water pump stopped the leak.  But I’m pretty sure it must have.

If anyone recognizes this scenario, please advise.  I suppose I will have to disassemble the sink to see where the leak is and then replace the shower pan drain hose.  The problem is how to replace the drain hose given how difficult it is to access the forward end.  Any suggestions are welcome.  I will be flying back to the boat in a week. 


Regards,

Bill Shaproski

S/V Pacific Cool



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat

Porter McRoberts
 

Simply incredible, these responses. 
They are so very appreciated. I learn so much from this forum, it’s about worth the price of admission!
Thank you all. So much

Porter and Helen
S/V Ibis
Amel 54-152



On Jun 29, 2018, at 12:20 PM, Beaute Olivier atlanticyachtsurvey@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hello all AMEL 54 owners,

there is indeed a thermic switch on the bow-thruster motor. It is connected to one of the carbon brushes. If you have already had it stop the motor, several times, or you purchased a used boat and you don't know about the over-use of the bow-thruster by the former owner, it may be time to check the carbon brushes of this motor.
Indeed, worn out brushes lead to warming up where the brushes make contact with the rotor. And worn out brushes make the motor less powerful, then you may use it a longer time for the same amount of thrust.
If you see a lot of carbon dust around your BT motor, it's time to check/replace them.

Moreover, when AMEL says that you should turn ON the generator when using the bow-thruster (and the 100A battery charger), this is because the bow-thruster will work with higher voltage (the voltage drop will be less if the charger is ON, and as the main engine alternator is not charging much at low revs). With higher voltage, the amperage will be less, the warming up of the thermic switch too and the wear of the carbon brushes too.

Now, I agree that you don't absolutely need to turn on the generator and battery charger in any conditions. But do it if you enter a harbor that you don't know (you may use the BT a lot) or if the wind is strong.

In the french Navy, when a vessel enters a harbor, every means of power is systematically turned ON, in case one fails. Bill R will tell us how they do in the US Navy, but it may be the same.
This was the idea of Captain AMEL and Mr. Carteau when they decided to give the "Generator ON when docking" advice.

Rüdi, don't worry about too much wear on your generator, it is a very resistant piece of hardware...


Keep enjoying easy dockings!!

Olivier

On Friday, June 29, 2018, 5:42:37 PM GMT+2, 'Mohammad Shirloo' mshirloo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 

Reudi;
 
The main reason to run the Genset while using the bow thruster is not to reduce the load on the batteries. Putting out 400-500A for short bursts will not have a significant negative effect on the batteries.
 
By running the Genset you are maintaining a higher voltage to the bow thruster, reducing the current requirement and thus reducing the heat generated in the bow thruster and all associated wiring supplying the bow thruster. This will maximize the time the bow thruster will function before the thermal cutoff kicks in.  Therefore for us it is not a calculation of battery vs. generator life, but an issue of safety. A few extra seconds of bow thruster availability may make a big difference in the result of the maneuver.
 
Respectfully;
Mohammad Shirloo
323-633-2222 Cell
310-644-0908 Fax
 


From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2018 8:32 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat

 

Thanks for all your thoughtful responses. This is a great forum and I have learned a lot within a short time about AMEL. I love it!

Here some comments on your responses: 

I’m not using the bow truster more than 5-6 seconds per burst. When I use it, I’m carefully not to overdue and I usualy waiting to cool down a bit between 2 burst. Thats why I was wondering how fast it was paused by the system….

No, I don’t use generator while use the bow truster, as AMEL and many others recommending. I agree with Thomas about it. 
- In one hand the Engine is running always when use the BT and is supporting the batteries as well . 
- On the other hand I do not extensively use the BT so my Batteries should be able to carry the load. 

- AND most important; I don’t want to shorten the live of my GenSet just to help the batteries a bit.
In my opinion is; The live of a Diesel engine is shorten by too many short usage without much load and without running it at leased 30min at a time. When I turn the GenSet on, I use it for many things at the time, Laundry, Water-maker, heater, charging, whatsoever. Therefore it runs at leased an hour when it’s on.

BTW: 
We don’t had the 425A fuse on #55 either. Olivier recommended to install it and also an emergency shutoff in the BT compartment . So we did. ;-)

Fair winds!
Ruedi 
WASABI A54/55
Kithnos

Von: <amelyachtowners@...> on behalf of "'S/V Garulfo' svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Antworten an: <amelyachtowners@...>
Datum: Donnerstag, 28. Juni 2018 um 13:33
An: <amelyachtowners@...>
Betreff: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat

 

Hi Mohammad and Aty,

So you don't have that 425A fuse on Kokomo?
It'd be interesting to have other data points. 

When we started seeing A54s for sale, someone from the yard in Hyères told us Amel started to fit the emergency disconnect on 54s  after instances of incidents where the bow thruster wouldn't stop. The thermal switch should provide that safety stop, but maybe they felt there should be a manual override too, in case.

By the way, it was in the same sentence as "have the genset running when you use the bow thruster" that raised a few eyebrows in this group a while back. At the time, not knowing better, I took it for granted. Sufficient and safe, yes. Necessary?, I'm not sure. We don't do it anymore as we don't go to marinas that much and when we do, we try to play the game of least-bow-thruster-usage to improve our handling skills, and our batteries can handle the high current discharge.


Fair winds!

Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Curacao



On Thu, 28 Jun 2018 at 05:38, 'Mohammad Shirloo' mshirloo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Thomas;
 
Your fuse may have been added on because I've heard some surveyors and insurance companies regard this situation as unsafe and will require the fuse to be added. I'm pretty sure that we were told by Olivier during our survey that the bow thruster is directly connected to the batteries. When I inquired about the reason, I believe the response was that Amel felt that the safety of the boat, when absolutely needing the bow thruster to be operational, was more important than the possibility of the bow thruster being damaged due to overuse.
 
The emergency disconnect is a manually operated switch which would require intervention form a person to stop current flowing to the bow thruster.
 
Respectfully;
Mohammad and Aty
B&B Kokomo
Amel 54 #099
 


From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 2:01 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat

 


Hi Mohammad,

On Garulfo (54-122) there is also a 425A fuse on the positive cable and an emergency disconnect (big red button), both housed in the box inside the forward locker. 

I recently found the emergency disconnect to be rusted frozen so it's on the list for replacement. 

I would encourage others to test the emergency disconnect as it has a carbon steel backing plate and is mounted without any kind of waterproofing so is bound to rust. 

Fair winds,

Thomas 
GARULFO
A54-122
Curacao 


On Wed, 27 Jun 2018 at 19:27, 'Mohammad Shirloo' mshirloo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hello Reudi;
 
Yes, the Amel 54 has a thermal cutoff to prevent damage to the thruster as well as continuous high current draw (Around 550 Amps at 24V) which could lead to fire on board. We've had the thermal cutoff kick in  only a couple of times and it has reset in a matter of minutes. We have not timed the exact reset duration.
 
I'm not aware of any adjustments in the thermal cutoff. The bow thruster has a direct connection to the batteries without a breaker. The thermal cutoff is the only safety items preventing major damage to the thruster and/or wiring.
 
Try to use the thruster in bursts (less than 15 seconds), as much as possible, so it has time to cool down between usage. We try to over correct a bit when we use use the BT so as the bow falls off, the BT has more time to cool.
 
Respectfully;
Mohammad Shirloo
323-633-2222 Cell
310-644-0908 Fax
 


From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 9:58 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...


Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat


 

Dear Forum

On my Amel-54 I discovered that the bow truster stops working after repeatingly use within 10-15 min timeframe.

I used the bow truster a bit more than usual when I practiced some manouvers first time; - and on a second occation when I had to manouver in a marina with a lot of windguests of 18+ kn and another chain over my Anker...

It stopped working and after a while (maybe 10 min.) it re-started & operated normaly. I know BT Is not made for constant use, - only few seconds at a time. Then wait and re-use another time.

Question from a beginner:

Does the bow truster has a termic fuse which is activated after some time of usage to save the motor from overheating? 

Does anyone know exactly how it works and if this can be adjusted because I think the BT on Wasabi switches of quite fast. Any ideas or other information?

Best regards

Ruedi

SY Wasabi A54#55

Sailing Cyclades GR.




Re: Fresh Water Leak At Aft Head

greatketch@...
 

Bill, 
One place where a fresh water supply leak will drain to where you are finding water is from the lines that supply the shower. You might want to remove the cover over those lines and inspect the connections and the bottom side of the shower valve. 

That’s my first bet for the problem.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA


---In amelyachtowners@..., <pacificcool@...> wrote :

I have SM 141 from 1995.  My current problem is a fresh water leak somewhere in the aft head.  Some time back I noticed that there was a fresh water accumulation in the cavity under the entrance to the aft head.  This is where you can access the head sea cock and where the drain hose from the shower pan passes through going forward.  I was able to confirm that the leak is not from the shower drain hose aft end where it attaches to the shower pan.  So the only other place could be where the drain hose passes through the forward wall of the cavity.  Unfortunately this is very difficult to access.  I was eventually able to put another clamp on the hose and tighten it. 


To isolate the source of the leak I stopped using the aft head completely to determine if that would eliminate the water accumulation.  However, it did not and a large amount of fresh water accumulated in the cavity again.  This time it was much cleaner which led me to believe it must be coming from the hot or cold fresh water supply lines.  But I cannot see how a leaking fresh water supply line would have a path to allow water to enter the cavity in front of the head door.  I turned off the fresh water pump to determine if that would stop the leak.  If yes, then it would confirm that the leak is from one of the supply lines.  But that would not explain how it gets into the cavity. 


One possibility is that there is a leak of one of the fresh water supply lines that leaks into the shower pan and then leaks out where the shower pan drain line exits the cavity at the forward end (where it’s difficult to access).  Unfortunately, I’m not at the boat now so cannot determine if turning off the fresh water pump stopped the leak.  But I’m pretty sure it must have.

If anyone recognizes this scenario, please advise.  I suppose I will have to disassemble the sink to see where the leak is and then replace the shower pan drain hose.  The problem is how to replace the drain hose given how difficult it is to access the forward end.  Any suggestions are welcome.  I will be flying back to the boat in a week. 


Regards,

Bill Shaproski

S/V Pacific Cool



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Fresh Water Leak At Aft Head

 

Have you confirmed that it is NOT an AC condensation leak? 

It is a common issue that the plastic condensate collection box under the evaporator coil, cracks and leaks.

Also, there is an easier way to check for a freshwater supply hose leak than you are planning to do.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970






On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 11:37 AM pacificcool@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

I have SM 141 from 1995.  My current problem is a fresh water leak somewhere in the aft head.  Some time back I noticed that there was a fresh water accumulation in the cavity under the entrance to the aft head.  This is where you can access the head sea cock and where the drain hose from the shower pan passes through going forward.  I was able to confirm that the leak is not from the shower drain hose aft end where it attaches to the shower pan.  So the only other place could be where the drain hose passes through the forward wall of the cavity.  Unfortunately this is very difficult to access.  I was eventually able to put another clamp on the hose and tighten it. 


To isolate the source of the leak I stopped using the aft head completely to determine if that would eliminate the water accumulation.  However, it did not and a large amount of fresh water accumulated in the cavity again.  This time it was much cleaner which led me to believe it must be coming from the hot or cold fresh water supply lines.  But I cannot see how a leaking fresh water supply line would have a path to allow water to enter the cavity in front of the head door.  I turned off the fresh water pump to determine if that would stop the leak.  If yes, then it would confirm that the leak is from one of the supply lines.  But that would not explain how it gets into the cavity. 


One possibility is that there is a leak of one of the fresh water supply lines that leaks into the shower pan and then leaks out where the shower pan drain line exits the cavity at the forward end (where it’s difficult to access).  Unfortunately, I’m not at the boat now so cannot determine if turning off the fresh water pump stopped the leak.  But I’m pretty sure it must have.

If anyone recognizes this scenario, please advise.  I suppose I will have to disassemble the sink to see where the leak is and then replace the shower pan drain hose.  The problem is how to replace the drain hose given how difficult it is to access the forward end.  Any suggestions are welcome.  I will be flying back to the boat in a week. 


Regards,

Bill Shaproski

S/V Pacific Cool



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat

Beaute Olivier
 

Hello all AMEL 54 owners,

there is indeed a thermic switch on the bow-thruster motor. It is connected to one of the carbon brushes. If you have already had it stop the motor, several times, or you purchased a used boat and you don't know about the over-use of the bow-thruster by the former owner, it may be time to check the carbon brushes of this motor.
Indeed, worn out brushes lead to warming up where the brushes make contact with the rotor. And worn out brushes make the motor less powerful, then you may use it a longer time for the same amount of thrust.
If you see a lot of carbon dust around your BT motor, it's time to check/replace them.

Moreover, when AMEL says that you should turn ON the generator when using the bow-thruster (and the 100A battery charger), this is because the bow-thruster will work with higher voltage (the voltage drop will be less if the charger is ON, and as the main engine alternator is not charging much at low revs). With higher voltage, the amperage will be less, the warming up of the thermic switch too and the wear of the carbon brushes too.

Now, I agree that you don't absolutely need to turn on the generator and battery charger in any conditions. But do it if you enter a harbor that you don't know (you may use the BT a lot) or if the wind is strong.

In the french Navy, when a vessel enters a harbor, every means of power is systematically turned ON, in case one fails. Bill R will tell us how they do in the US Navy, but it may be the same.
This was the idea of Captain AMEL and Mr. Carteau when they decided to give the "Generator ON when docking" advice.

Rüdi, don't worry about too much wear on your generator, it is a very resistant piece of hardware...


Keep enjoying easy dockings!!

Olivier

On Friday, June 29, 2018, 5:42:37 PM GMT+2, 'Mohammad Shirloo' mshirloo@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:


 

Reudi;
 
The main reason to run the Genset while using the bow thruster is not to reduce the load on the batteries. Putting out 400-500A for short bursts will not have a significant negative effect on the batteries.
 
By running the Genset you are maintaining a higher voltage to the bow thruster, reducing the current requirement and thus reducing the heat generated in the bow thruster and all associated wiring supplying the bow thruster. This will maximize the time the bow thruster will function before the thermal cutoff kicks in.  Therefore for us it is not a calculation of battery vs. generator life, but an issue of safety. A few extra seconds of bow thruster availability may make a big difference in the result of the maneuver.
 
Respectfully;
Mohammad Shirloo
323-633-2222 Cell
310-644-0908 Fax
 


From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2018 8:32 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat

 

Thanks for all your thoughtful responses. This is a great forum and I have learned a lot within a short time about AMEL. I love it!

Here some comments on your responses: 

I’m not using the bow truster more than 5-6 seconds per burst. When I use it, I’m carefully not to overdue and I usualy waiting to cool down a bit between 2 burst. Thats why I was wondering how fast it was paused by the system….

No, I don’t use generator while use the bow truster, as AMEL and many others recommending. I agree with Thomas about it. 
- In one hand the Engine is running always when use the BT and is supporting the batteries as well . 
- On the other hand I do not extensively use the BT so my Batteries should be able to carry the load. 

- AND most important; I don’t want to shorten the live of my GenSet just to help the batteries a bit.
In my opinion is; The live of a Diesel engine is shorten by too many short usage without much load and without running it at leased 30min at a time. When I turn the GenSet on, I use it for many things at the time, Laundry, Water-maker, heater, charging, whatsoever. Therefore it runs at leased an hour when it’s on.

BTW: 
We don’t had the 425A fuse on #55 either. Olivier recommended to install it and also an emergency shutoff in the BT compartment . So we did. ;-)

Fair winds!
Ruedi 
WASABI A54/55
Kithnos

Von: <amelyachtowners@...> on behalf of "'S/V Garulfo' svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Antworten an: <amelyachtowners@...>
Datum: Donnerstag, 28. Juni 2018 um 13:33
An: <amelyachtowners@...>
Betreff: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat

 

Hi Mohammad and Aty,

So you don't have that 425A fuse on Kokomo?
It'd be interesting to have other data points. 

When we started seeing A54s for sale, someone from the yard in Hyères told us Amel started to fit the emergency disconnect on 54s  after instances of incidents where the bow thruster wouldn't stop. The thermal switch should provide that safety stop, but maybe they felt there should be a manual override too, in case.

By the way, it was in the same sentence as "have the genset running when you use the bow thruster" that raised a few eyebrows in this group a while back. At the time, not knowing better, I took it for granted. Sufficient and safe, yes. Necessary?, I'm not sure. We don't do it anymore as we don't go to marinas that much and when we do, we try to play the game of least-bow-thruster-usage to improve our handling skills, and our batteries can handle the high current discharge.


Fair winds!

Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Curacao



On Thu, 28 Jun 2018 at 05:38, 'Mohammad Shirloo' mshirloo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Thomas;
 
Your fuse may have been added on because I've heard some surveyors and insurance companies regard this situation as unsafe and will require the fuse to be added. I'm pretty sure that we were told by Olivier during our survey that the bow thruster is directly connected to the batteries. When I inquired about the reason, I believe the response was that Amel felt that the safety of the boat, when absolutely needing the bow thruster to be operational, was more important than the possibility of the bow thruster being damaged due to overuse.
 
The emergency disconnect is a manually operated switch which would require intervention form a person to stop current flowing to the bow thruster.
 
Respectfully;
Mohammad and Aty
B&B Kokomo
Amel 54 #099
 


From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 2:01 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat

 


Hi Mohammad,

On Garulfo (54-122) there is also a 425A fuse on the positive cable and an emergency disconnect (big red button), both housed in the box inside the forward locker. 

I recently found the emergency disconnect to be rusted frozen so it's on the list for replacement. 

I would encourage others to test the emergency disconnect as it has a carbon steel backing plate and is mounted without any kind of waterproofing so is bound to rust. 

Fair winds,

Thomas 
GARULFO
A54-122
Curacao 


On Wed, 27 Jun 2018 at 19:27, 'Mohammad Shirloo' mshirloo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hello Reudi;
 
Yes, the Amel 54 has a thermal cutoff to prevent damage to the thruster as well as continuous high current draw (Around 550 Amps at 24V) which could lead to fire on board. We've had the thermal cutoff kick in  only a couple of times and it has reset in a matter of minutes. We have not timed the exact reset duration.
 
I'm not aware of any adjustments in the thermal cutoff. The bow thruster has a direct connection to the batteries without a breaker. The thermal cutoff is the only safety items preventing major damage to the thruster and/or wiring.
 
Try to use the thruster in bursts (less than 15 seconds), as much as possible, so it has time to cool down between usage. We try to over correct a bit when we use use the BT so as the bow falls off, the BT has more time to cool.
 
Respectfully;
Mohammad Shirloo
323-633-2222 Cell
310-644-0908 Fax
 


From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 9:58 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...


Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat


 

Dear Forum

On my Amel-54 I discovered that the bow truster stops working after repeatingly use within 10-15 min timeframe.

I used the bow truster a bit more than usual when I practiced some manouvers first time; - and on a second occation when I had to manouver in a marina with a lot of windguests of 18+ kn and another chain over my Anker...

It stopped working and after a while (maybe 10 min.) it re-started & operated normaly. I know BT Is not made for constant use, - only few seconds at a time. Then wait and re-use another time.

Question from a beginner:

Does the bow truster has a termic fuse which is activated after some time of usage to save the motor from overheating? 

Does anyone know exactly how it works and if this can be adjusted because I think the BT on Wasabi switches of quite fast. Any ideas or other information?

Best regards

Ruedi

SY Wasabi A54#55

Sailing Cyclades GR.




Re: Amel 54 Foresail furlers

Arno Luijten
 

I have contacted Paul from Bamar USA. He responded very quickly although he is away for holidays. He will look into this when he gets back (July 6th). He thinks he can serve me as well at the latest proposed rate.

Thanks all,

Arno


Fresh Water Leak At Aft Head

pacificcool@...
 

I have SM 141 from 1995.  My current problem is a fresh water leak somewhere in the aft head.  Some time back I noticed that there was a fresh water accumulation in the cavity under the entrance to the aft head.  This is where you can access the head sea cock and where the drain hose from the shower pan passes through going forward.  I was able to confirm that the leak is not from the shower drain hose aft end where it attaches to the shower pan.  So the only other place could be where the drain hose passes through the forward wall of the cavity.  Unfortunately this is very difficult to access.  I was eventually able to put another clamp on the hose and tighten it. 


To isolate the source of the leak I stopped using the aft head completely to determine if that would eliminate the water accumulation.  However, it did not and a large amount of fresh water accumulated in the cavity again.  This time it was much cleaner which led me to believe it must be coming from the hot or cold fresh water supply lines.  But I cannot see how a leaking fresh water supply line would have a path to allow water to enter the cavity in front of the head door.  I turned off the fresh water pump to determine if that would stop the leak.  If yes, then it would confirm that the leak is from one of the supply lines.  But that would not explain how it gets into the cavity. 


One possibility is that there is a leak of one of the fresh water supply lines that leaks into the shower pan and then leaks out where the shower pan drain line exits the cavity at the forward end (where it’s difficult to access).  Unfortunately, I’m not at the boat now so cannot determine if turning off the fresh water pump stopped the leak.  But I’m pretty sure it must have.

If anyone recognizes this scenario, please advise.  I suppose I will have to disassemble the sink to see where the leak is and then replace the shower pan drain hose.  The problem is how to replace the drain hose given how difficult it is to access the forward end.  Any suggestions are welcome.  I will be flying back to the boat in a week. 


Regards,

Bill Shaproski

S/V Pacific Cool



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat

Mohammad Shirloo
 

Reudi;
 
The main reason to run the Genset while using the bow thruster is not to reduce the load on the batteries. Putting out 400-500A for short bursts will not have a significant negative effect on the batteries.
 
By running the Genset you are maintaining a higher voltage to the bow thruster, reducing the current requirement and thus reducing the heat generated in the bow thruster and all associated wiring supplying the bow thruster. This will maximize the time the bow thruster will function before the thermal cutoff kicks in.  Therefore for us it is not a calculation of battery vs. generator life, but an issue of safety. A few extra seconds of bow thruster availability may make a big difference in the result of the maneuver.
 
Respectfully;
Mohammad Shirloo
323-633-2222 Cell
310-644-0908 Fax
 



From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2018 8:32 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat

 

Thanks for all your thoughtful responses. This is a great forum and I have learned a lot within a short time about AMEL. I love it!

Here some comments on your responses: 

I’m not using the bow truster more than 5-6 seconds per burst. When I use it, I’m carefully not to overdue and I usualy waiting to cool down a bit between 2 burst. Thats why I was wondering how fast it was paused by the system….

No, I don’t use generator while use the bow truster, as AMEL and many others recommending. I agree with Thomas about it. 
- In one hand the Engine is running always when use the BT and is supporting the batteries as well . 
- On the other hand I do not extensively use the BT so my Batteries should be able to carry the load. 

- AND most important; I don’t want to shorten the live of my GenSet just to help the batteries a bit.
In my opinion is; The live of a Diesel engine is shorten by too many short usage without much load and without running it at leased 30min at a time. When I turn the GenSet on, I use it for many things at the time, Laundry, Water-maker, heater, charging, whatsoever. Therefore it runs at leased an hour when it’s on.

BTW: 
We don’t had the 425A fuse on #55 either. Olivier recommended to install it and also an emergency shutoff in the BT compartment . So we did. ;-)

Fair winds!
Ruedi 
WASABI A54/55
Kithnos

Von: <amelyachtowners@...> on behalf of "'S/V Garulfo' svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Antworten an: <amelyachtowners@...>
Datum: Donnerstag, 28. Juni 2018 um 13:33
An: <amelyachtowners@...>
Betreff: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat

 

Hi Mohammad and Aty,

So you don't have that 425A fuse on Kokomo?
It'd be interesting to have other data points. 

When we started seeing A54s for sale, someone from the yard in Hyères told us Amel started to fit the emergency disconnect on 54s  after instances of incidents where the bow thruster wouldn't stop. The thermal switch should provide that safety stop, but maybe they felt there should be a manual override too, in case.

By the way, it was in the same sentence as "have the genset running when you use the bow thruster" that raised a few eyebrows in this group a while back. At the time, not knowing better, I took it for granted. Sufficient and safe, yes. Necessary?, I'm not sure. We don't do it anymore as we don't go to marinas that much and when we do, we try to play the game of least-bow-thruster-usage to improve our handling skills, and our batteries can handle the high current discharge.


Fair winds!

Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Curacao



On Thu, 28 Jun 2018 at 05:38, 'Mohammad Shirloo' mshirloo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Thomas;
 
Your fuse may have been added on because I've heard some surveyors and insurance companies regard this situation as unsafe and will require the fuse to be added. I'm pretty sure that we were told by Olivier during our survey that the bow thruster is directly connected to the batteries. When I inquired about the reason, I believe the response was that Amel felt that the safety of the boat, when absolutely needing the bow thruster to be operational, was more important than the possibility of the bow thruster being damaged due to overuse.
 
The emergency disconnect is a manually operated switch which would require intervention form a person to stop current flowing to the bow thruster.
 
Respectfully;
Mohammad and Aty
B&B Kokomo
Amel 54 #099
 


From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 2:01 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat

 


Hi Mohammad,

On Garulfo (54-122) there is also a 425A fuse on the positive cable and an emergency disconnect (big red button), both housed in the box inside the forward locker. 

I recently found the emergency disconnect to be rusted frozen so it's on the list for replacement. 

I would encourage others to test the emergency disconnect as it has a carbon steel backing plate and is mounted without any kind of waterproofing so is bound to rust. 

Fair winds,

Thomas 
GARULFO
A54-122
Curacao 


On Wed, 27 Jun 2018 at 19:27, 'Mohammad Shirloo' mshirloo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hello Reudi;
 
Yes, the Amel 54 has a thermal cutoff to prevent damage to the thruster as well as continuous high current draw (Around 550 Amps at 24V) which could lead to fire on board. We've had the thermal cutoff kick in  only a couple of times and it has reset in a matter of minutes. We have not timed the exact reset duration.
 
I'm not aware of any adjustments in the thermal cutoff. The bow thruster has a direct connection to the batteries without a breaker. The thermal cutoff is the only safety items preventing major damage to the thruster and/or wiring.
 
Try to use the thruster in bursts (less than 15 seconds), as much as possible, so it has time to cool down between usage. We try to over correct a bit when we use use the BT so as the bow falls off, the BT has more time to cool.
 
Respectfully;
Mohammad Shirloo
323-633-2222 Cell
310-644-0908 Fax
 


From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 9:58 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...


Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow-Truster overheat


 

Dear Forum

On my Amel-54 I discovered that the bow truster stops working after repeatingly use within 10-15 min timeframe.

I used the bow truster a bit more than usual when I practiced some manouvers first time; - and on a second occation when I had to manouver in a marina with a lot of windguests of 18+ kn and another chain over my Anker...

It stopped working and after a while (maybe 10 min.) it re-started & operated normaly. I know BT Is not made for constant use, - only few seconds at a time. Then wait and re-use another time.

Question from a beginner:

Does the bow truster has a termic fuse which is activated after some time of usage to save the motor from overheating? 

Does anyone know exactly how it works and if this can be adjusted because I think the BT on Wasabi switches of quite fast. Any ideas or other information?

Best regards

Ruedi

SY Wasabi A54#55

Sailing Cyclades GR.



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