Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Onan Water Pump

ianjenkins1946 <ianjudyjenkins@hotmail.com>
 

Hi Mark and Duane , 

Having spent a couple of hours this morning fitting a new impeller to my Onan plus cleaning the broken impeller blades from the heat exchangerwould be interested in that same item - can you send me the reference 


On 8 Jul 2018, at 15:40, sailor63109@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Mark,

Thanks for the photo and the part reference.  I was wondering how I would support a heavy bronze fitting off the hose, but the plastic one you used appears not to need support, so another problem solved!

Thanks!
Duane


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Freshwater Pump - pressure sensing mechanical switch

Colin - ex SV Island Pearl
 

Thank you Wolfgang, you are correct. Earlier on we had noticed that the pump never kept running when plugged into a marina shore power, as batteries always fully charged, but then started it's nonsense again every morning at anchor as the charge fell below 25.1 volts.

That was the first problem we had some 3 months before it got much worse.

We are sorted now, as a new pressure switch is being sent out by Amel (our one will be fixed and kept as a spare) and we have also a 2nd complete fresh water pump system which bypasses the original one (with it's own one way valve and pressure switch), and quick system change over taps to change over between the two separate systems. In this way we will be back in business tomorrow and can also go back to the original Amel system (and visa versa) when that new pressure switch part finally arrives from Amel.

Thanks to all for the suggestions and assistance. Also a special thanks to Bill Rouse for the huge amount of very informative fresh water pump setting information (10 pages) sent privately from his exceptional 400+ page Amel maintenance book. Whist I do not have a copy of Bill's complete book, from the 10 pages I have now seen, I would think his book should be the first resource any new (or existing) Amel owner should turn to, and keep handy on board.

Fair winds

Colin Streeter
SV Island Pearl II - SM#332
Grand Bay, Mauritius


On Sun, Jul 8, 2018 at 6:02 PM, webercardio webercardio@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Our freshwaterpump did not stop running, when the voltage of the batterie were low.
Wolfgang Weber SY Elise Amel 54#162







--
Colin Streeter
0411 016 445


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine cruising RPM

Porter McRoberts
 

Teun,
Mostly true. New long block 800 hours ago and New injectors about 400 hours ago. 
It is a common rail. 
On a different topic. We’re currently stuck in panama with a bad boost pressure sensor. 
I have envy of anyone who can unplug the computer and have the engine run. 
The concept that a computer controlled engine be installed in a world cruising sailboat seems antithetical to the purpose of a sailboat, and to ours in particular. 
I’ve been training (at your knees, and especially Bill R’s) for the past year to be as self sufficient as possible, and to be thwarted by a stray electron underscores how vulnerable we are. Our cruising buddies are on a 1984 trintella. Sailed from Croatia. They are in year #5. Old Perkins runs like a boss. I asked my buddy, who is in his own right a Jedi of machinery, how often he changes his fuel filters.  He chuckled.  “I don’t think I’ve needed to do that” he said. Pressure’s good. Engine runs well. 
I had engine envy. Not that the Volvo isn’t a fine piece of hardware, but.... it’s the intersection of important and complicated. Not a good combo. Like I say. Thank God for sails, and the fact that we sailors got around just fine for the first 1000 years without motors. 

In short. Seems like diesels (or the industry and associated standards) took a step back in the past 15 years putting efficiency over simplicity. I think Nigel Calder would agree. 

Have wonderful Sundays. Without this motor glitch we wouldn’t have seen the incredibly beautiful town of El Valle up here in the Panamanian cordillera. 

Porter, Helen and crew
S/V Ibis
54-152
Panama City



On Jul 7, 2018, at 6:30 PM, Teun BAAS teun@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Porter,

 

I understood you had a new VOLVO installed. If so, and it is a common rail, then there is NO need to run the engine on high rpms to “burn out the soot”.

 

This is the specific instruction I got this week from the SYDNEY VOLVO technician installing my VOLVO D3 110 H here in NOUMEA NEW CALEDONIA.

 

Best Regards Teun

AMELIT  54 – 128

NOUMEA NEW CALEDONIA

Jul 08, 2018   10:27:44

 

 

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2018 10:24 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine cruising RPM

 

 

Thanks Mark. 

If temp is the final data point, we cruise at about 79-80. What should be the goal?

Thanks again!

Porter


On Jul 7, 2018, at 11:13 AM, 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Porter,

 

It really doesn’t matter how you do it but you need to create internal engine heat to clean out the engine. This is done with a load on the engine. If in neutral, it will take longer to create a load and heat. In gear while underway will heat up the engine faster.

 

This is true for all diesel engines.

 

Where you run the RPM depends on the engine. Typically, 80% of max power will heat up the engine nicely without too much strain. This is also good for the turbocharger, if fitted with one.

 

How long? At least every couple of hours while underway, if not a little more frequently... We run ours up every hour for about five minutes. This works for us.

 

Keep in mind, this is not just the ship’s engine but also true for the genset. Running a genset without load will cause carbon buildup. Keep the genset loaded when charging batteries etc. We find it best to run a couple of AC units or do a load of laundry etc. The battery charger only puts load on the genset at the beginning of the charge cycle.

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Curacao

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, July 7, 2018 11:35 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine cruising RPM

 

 

Ok. Bullshit aside. 

I do have a few real questions, that I’ve had for a while. 

It’s the same for all diesels. Yes?  

Is “racing” out of gear best?  I would think load would be required to increase fuel consumption and thus heat. Fuel burn>>heat dissipation 2/2 raw water flow. 

Forget the rpm. Where is the throttle?  100% down? 80%?  

And for how long?  

 

Many thanks, as always to this great group. 

 

Porter

A54-152. 

 

 

Excuse the errors.  

Sent from my IPhone 


On Jul 7, 2018, at 9:02 AM, 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Bob,

 

Wow! Sorry. I didn’t realize I had to be so freaking specific. Seriously! The essence of the post I made is 100% correct. I didn’t intend to make a verbatim quote of the manual. If  I had, I would have used quotation marks. I stated this is OUTLINED in the manual. I did not say this is a DIRECT QUOTE from the manual. Geeez! And, please note I did say 4JH4 manual, not 4JH3 as you are quoting.

 

But if you want specific details of the JH4 Operation Manual, publication number OAJH4-G00102, page 78. I quote, “Periodically operate the engine near maximum speed while underway. This will generate higher exhaust temperatures, which help clean out hard carbon deposits, maintain engine performance and prolong the life of the engine”

This is below the section you quote about running it in idle and speaks specifically about running the engine while underway.

 

Regardless of whether this is done in neutral or in gear while underway, the purpose of the procedure is to raise the internal temperature of the engine periodically to remove carbon build up. Carbon build up will kill a diesel engine.

 

I’m feelin’ a little crabby today. Can you tell?

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Curacao

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, July 7, 2018 3:20 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine cruising RPM

 

 

Hi Mark,

Regarding "Running a lower RPMs without load will shorten the life of the engine unless it is pushed up at least once per hour for about 5 minutes. This is outlinede in the Yanmar operation manual."

 

This is not to challenge the veracity of your statement but I cannot find that in my Yanmar manual. Maybe you have a different manual and it would be helpful (really) to have you quote what it says. 

 

What my 4JH3-HTE Operation Manual says (on page 30 section 4.6) is: 

 

"When operating the engine at low speed ffor long periods of time, race the engine once every 2 hours"..."Racing the Engine, Morse Remote Control Handle Pull out the handle lever...and shift the engine speed from high to low several times...Racing the engine removes carbon built up in the compustion chamber around the fuel injection valve.  Neglecting to race tthe engine will cause the exhaust to turn black and lower the efficiency of the engine".

 

In other words it says to gun the engine several times while it is in neutral.

 

Like others, we vary my speed between 1600 and 2200 for cruising and can cruise up to 2400 rpm.  We also run it at say 2800 for 5 minutes or so periodically.  However, I cannot find where Yanmar recommends this.  There are postings in this group (not yours) that say to run it full out for 5 minutes, even full out fo 30 minutes but I don't think that is advisable. Seems that vibration is higher and it might be hard on the transmission and c drive as well.  Like most of us we vary the speed and run it harder at times but we also do the "Racing" procedure that is in our manual.

 

Bob and Suzanne, KAIMI #429

La Maddalena, Sardegna

 

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Sad video of Nikimat

Mark Garver
 

Hard to watch, I remember seeing the message here about Alex’s loss right after Irma. He does continue to help on this forum and in many other ways!

Godspeed Alexandre and Nikimat!


On Jul 8, 2018, at 8:29 AM, brentcameron61@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

I stumbled across this video yesterday.  Apparently Nikimat (2001 Super Maramu, Hull # 289) is going to be parted out to rebuild Agapanthe (Rafael's boat a 1999 Super Maramu, Hull #246).  Both were totalled in Hurricane Irma at St. Martin.  I only post this to show the toughness of these boats.  I know many of us wondered exactly what kind of damage it would take to sink a Super Maramu.  Despite severe damage and being nearly chopped in half,  Nikimat looks to be in remarkably good condition considering what she lived through in her final hours.  (I did check with Alexandre before posting this).  Despite everything he's gone through, he continues to be a leader in this great community, helping others.   

 

http://picbear.online/used_boats_for_sale_caribbean


Brent Cameron

Future Super Maramu owner


Re: Freshwater Pump - pressure sensing mechanical switch

webercardio <webercardio@...>
 

Our freshwaterpump did not stop running, when the voltage of the batterie were low.
Wolfgang Weber SY Elise Amel 54#162





Re: Onan Water Pump

Duane Siegfri
 

Mark,

Thanks for the photo and the part reference.  I was wondering how I would support a heavy bronze fitting off the hose, but the plastic one you used appears not to need support, so another problem solved!

Thanks!
Duane


Sad video of Nikimat

Brent Cameron
 

I stumbled across this video yesterday.  Apparently Nikimat (2001 Super Maramu, Hull # 289) is going to be parted out to rebuild Agapanthe (Rafael's boat a 1999 Super Maramu, Hull #246).  Both were totalled in Hurricane Irma at St. Martin.  I only post this to show the toughness of these boats.  I know many of us wondered exactly what kind of damage it would take to sink a Super Maramu.  Despite severe damage and being nearly chopped in half,  Nikimat looks to be in remarkably good condition considering what she lived through in her final hours.  (I did check with Alexandre before posting this).  Despite everything he's gone through, he continues to be a leader in this great community, helping others.   

 

http://picbear.online/used_boats_for_sale_caribbean


Brent Cameron

Future Super Maramu owner


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine cruising RPM

Mark Erdos
 

Porter,

 

I think you need to look in the manual for the correct temperature range of the engine. It should give you a range in the specs section. You will want to run at the high end of the range for a few minutes.

 

My 4jh4 tops out at 87°C or about 190°F. At lower RPMs it runs just below 82°C or about 180°F

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Curacao

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, July 7, 2018 7:24 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine cruising RPM

 

 

Thanks Mark. 

If temp is the final data point, we cruise at about 79-80. What should be the goal?

Thanks again!

Porter


On Jul 7, 2018, at 11:13 AM, 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Porter,

 

It really doesn’t matter how you do it but you need to create internal engine heat to clean out the engine. This is done with a load on the engine. If in neutral, it will take longer to create a load and heat. In gear while underway will heat up the engine faster.

 

This is true for all diesel engines.

 

Where you run the RPM depends on the engine. Typically, 80% of max power will heat up the engine nicely without too much strain. This is also good for the turbocharger, if fitted with one.

 

How long? At least every couple of hours while underway, if not a little more frequently... We run ours up every hour for about five minutes. This works for us.

 

Keep in mind, this is not just the ship’s engine but also true for the genset. Running a genset without load will cause carbon buildup. Keep the genset loaded when charging batteries etc. We find it best to run a couple of AC units or do a load of laundry etc. The battery charger only puts load on the genset at the beginning of the charge cycle.

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Curacao

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, July 7, 2018 11:35 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine cruising RPM

 

 

Ok. Bullshit aside. 

I do have a few real questions, that I’ve had for a while. 

It’s the same for all diesels. Yes?  

Is “racing” out of gear best?  I would think load would be required to increase fuel consumption and thus heat. Fuel burn>>heat dissipation 2/2 raw water flow. 

Forget the rpm. Where is the throttle?  100% down? 80%?  

And for how long?  

 

Many thanks, as always to this great group. 

 

Porter

A54-152. 

 

 

Excuse the errors.  

Sent from my IPhone 


On Jul 7, 2018, at 9:02 AM, 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Bob,

 

Wow! Sorry. I didn’t realize I had to be so freaking specific. Seriously! The essence of the post I made is 100% correct. I didn’t intend to make a verbatim quote of the manual. If  I had, I would have used quotation marks. I stated this is OUTLINED in the manual. I did not say this is a DIRECT QUOTE from the manual. Geeez! And, please note I did say 4JH4 manual, not 4JH3 as you are quoting.

 

But if you want specific details of the JH4 Operation Manual, publication number OAJH4-G00102, page 78. I quote, “Periodically operate the engine near maximum speed while underway. This will generate higher exhaust temperatures, which help clean out hard carbon deposits, maintain engine performance and prolong the life of the engine”

This is below the section you quote about running it in idle and speaks specifically about running the engine while underway.

 

Regardless of whether this is done in neutral or in gear while underway, the purpose of the procedure is to raise the internal temperature of the engine periodically to remove carbon build up. Carbon build up will kill a diesel engine.

 

I’m feelin’ a little crabby today. Can you tell?

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Curacao

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, July 7, 2018 3:20 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine cruising RPM

 

 

Hi Mark,

Regarding "Running a lower RPMs without load will shorten the life of the engine unless it is pushed up at least once per hour for about 5 minutes. This is outlinede in the Yanmar operation manual."

 

This is not to challenge the veracity of your statement but I cannot find that in my Yanmar manual. Maybe you have a different manual and it would be helpful (really) to have you quote what it says. 

 

What my 4JH3-HTE Operation Manual says (on page 30 section 4.6) is: 

 

"When operating the engine at low speed ffor long periods of time, race the engine once every 2 hours"..."Racing the Engine, Morse Remote Control Handle Pull out the handle lever...and shift the engine speed from high to low several times...Racing the engine removes carbon built up in the compustion chamber around the fuel injection valve.  Neglecting to race tthe engine will cause the exhaust to turn black and lower the efficiency of the engine".

 

In other words it says to gun the engine several times while it is in neutral.

 

Like others, we vary my speed between 1600 and 2200 for cruising and can cruise up to 2400 rpm.  We also run it at say 2800 for 5 minutes or so periodically.  However, I cannot find where Yanmar recommends this.  There are postings in this group (not yours) that say to run it full out for 5 minutes, even full out fo 30 minutes but I don't think that is advisable. Seems that vibration is higher and it might be hard on the transmission and c drive as well.  Like most of us we vary the speed and run it harder at times but we also do the "Racing" procedure that is in our manual.

 

Bob and Suzanne, KAIMI #429

La Maddalena, Sardegna

 

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine cruising RPM

Mark Erdos
 

Teun,

 

Common rail engines have been around for years and while they offer lower emissions and soot from the exhaust they are not the cure-all. The thing to remember here is all marine diesel engines are engines designed for land adapted to a marine application. No diesel engine is designed to run at 25% power for days on end. If a land based application called for only 25 hp then a 25 hp engine would be used, not a 110 hp engine. It is my opinion the even the most modern newest technologically advanced diesel engine still has emission issues (soot and carbon buildup) at low end rpms. Look at the recent history of VW and how they adjusted the software of the engine to trick the emissions computers. They did this because their latest efforts at design and massive expenditure failed to produce a clean burning diesel engine.

 

So, the question I have for you is, what does it hurt to push up the RPM once in a while? If the engine is designed to run at x RPM then it should be able to run at 80% of x rpm for at least five minutes per hour, should it not?

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Curacao

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, July 7, 2018 7:30 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine cruising RPM
Importance: High

 

 

Hi Porter,

 

I understood you had a new VOLVO installed. If so, and it is a common rail, then there is NO need to run the engine on high rpms to “burn out the soot”.

 

This is the specific instruction I got this week from the SYDNEY VOLVO technician installing my VOLVO D3 110 H here in NOUMEA NEW CALEDONIA.

 

Best Regards Teun

AMELIT  54 – 128

NOUMEA NEW CALEDONIA

Jul 08, 2018   10:27:44

 

 

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2018 10:24 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine cruising RPM

 

 

Thanks Mark. 

If temp is the final data point, we cruise at about 79-80. What should be the goal?

Thanks again!

Porter

Sent from my iPad


On Jul 7, 2018, at 11:13 AM, 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Porter,

 

It really doesn’t matter how you do it but you need to create internal engine heat to clean out the engine. This is done with a load on the engine. If in neutral, it will take longer to create a load and heat. In gear while underway will heat up the engine faster.

 

This is true for all diesel engines.

 

Where you run the RPM depends on the engine. Typically, 80% of max power will heat up the engine nicely without too much strain. This is also good for the turbocharger, if fitted with one.

 

How long? At least every couple of hours while underway, if not a little more frequently... We run ours up every hour for about five minutes. This works for us.

 

Keep in mind, this is not just the ship’s engine but also true for the genset. Running a genset without load will cause carbon buildup. Keep the genset loaded when charging batteries etc. We find it best to run a couple of AC units or do a load of laundry etc. The battery charger only puts load on the genset at the beginning of the charge cycle.

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Curacao

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, July 7, 2018 11:35 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine cruising RPM

 

 

Ok. Bullshit aside. 

I do have a few real questions, that I’ve had for a while. 

It’s the same for all diesels. Yes?  

Is “racing” out of gear best?  I would think load would be required to increase fuel consumption and thus heat. Fuel burn>>heat dissipation 2/2 raw water flow. 

Forget the rpm. Where is the throttle?  100% down? 80%?  

And for how long?  

 

Many thanks, as always to this great group. 

 

Porter

A54-152. 

 

 

Excuse the errors.  

Sent from my IPhone 


On Jul 7, 2018, at 9:02 AM, 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Bob,

 

Wow! Sorry. I didn’t realize I had to be so freaking specific. Seriously! The essence of the post I made is 100% correct. I didn’t intend to make a verbatim quote of the manual. If  I had, I would have used quotation marks. I stated this is OUTLINED in the manual. I did not say this is a DIRECT QUOTE from the manual. Geeez! And, please note I did say 4JH4 manual, not 4JH3 as you are quoting.

 

But if you want specific details of the JH4 Operation Manual, publication number OAJH4-G00102, page 78. I quote, “Periodically operate the engine near maximum speed while underway. This will generate higher exhaust temperatures, which help clean out hard carbon deposits, maintain engine performance and prolong the life of the engine”

This is below the section you quote about running it in idle and speaks specifically about running the engine while underway.

 

Regardless of whether this is done in neutral or in gear while underway, the purpose of the procedure is to raise the internal temperature of the engine periodically to remove carbon build up. Carbon build up will kill a diesel engine.

 

I’m feelin’ a little crabby today. Can you tell?

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Curacao

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, July 7, 2018 3:20 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine cruising RPM

 

 

Hi Mark,

Regarding "Running a lower RPMs without load will shorten the life of the engine unless it is pushed up at least once per hour for about 5 minutes. This is outlinede in the Yanmar operation manual."

 

This is not to challenge the veracity of your statement but I cannot find that in my Yanmar manual. Maybe you have a different manual and it would be helpful (really) to have you quote what it says. 

 

What my 4JH3-HTE Operation Manual says (on page 30 section 4.6) is: 

 

"When operating the engine at low speed ffor long periods of time, race the engine once every 2 hours"..."Racing the Engine, Morse Remote Control Handle Pull out the handle lever...and shift the engine speed from high to low several times...Racing the engine removes carbon built up in the compustion chamber around the fuel injection valve.  Neglecting to race tthe engine will cause the exhaust to turn black and lower the efficiency of the engine".

 

In other words it says to gun the engine several times while it is in neutral.

 

Like others, we vary my speed between 1600 and 2200 for cruising and can cruise up to 2400 rpm.  We also run it at say 2800 for 5 minutes or so periodically.  However, I cannot find where Yanmar recommends this.  There are postings in this group (not yours) that say to run it full out for 5 minutes, even full out fo 30 minutes but I don't think that is advisable. Seems that vibration is higher and it might be hard on the transmission and c drive as well.  Like most of us we vary the speed and run it harder at times but we also do the "Racing" procedure that is in our manual.

 

Bob and Suzanne, KAIMI #429

La Maddalena, Sardegna

 

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine cruising RPM

rossirossix4
 

Thanks Mark,
Good to know, just couldn't find it in our manual so I do appreciate the citation from the other Yanmar manual.  Based on that I think I feel better about operating at higher speeds periodically--we max out at about 3300 rpm.

Bob KAIMI SM#429


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine cruising RPM

Courtney Gorman
 

Cheers Porter enjoy 


On Jul 7, 2018, at 7:26 PM, Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Courtney!  We’ll get there too fast!  

Thanks again
Porter
A54-152



On Jul 7, 2018, at 1:49 PM, Courtney Gorman Itsfun1@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Porter both Joel and Bill told me to run my engine max 1 hr out of every to to keep it and the turbo happy 

I just wait until I want to hurry then kick ass 
Not fuel efficient but if everything else stays happy then........
Same with cars run them hard sometimes or they have issues 
Cheers 
Courtney 
sv Trippin 54 #101
Grenada 


On Jul 7, 2018, at 11:36 AM, John Clark john.biohead@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Ryan,
  TAMD22 with fixed prop,  at survey with fresh bottom and clean prop we maxed out at 2700rpm and 7-8 knots.  19 no later waiting for haul out and fresh paint we are maxing out around 2400 rpm and 6.5 kts.  Prop had some groth that a diver scraped a few months ago...probably not the cleanest prop at the moment.

John
SV Annie
about to run south from Beryl....

On Fri, Jul 6, 2018, 2:36 PM Ryan Meador ryan.d.meador@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi all,

I've dug through the forum history on the topic of the "correct" RPM range for the Super Maramu, and I haven't quite found what I want.  What I have learned is there probably is no single, correct answer -- it depends on the engine and the prop.  But what I really want to know is not what RPM I should be seeing at wide open throttle, but what RPM I should be cruising at?  By this I mean the RPM you would use if you needed to motor for a long period of time.  If the max RPM is different for everyone, it stands to reason that cruising RPM should also be different for everyone.  Is there some way of calculating this RPM from the max?  I've heard a rule of thumb of 80% of max RPM, but given that some of our engines are "over-propped" by design, I don't know if it applies, or even if it's a good rule in the first place.  Should we rev to whatever is necessary to go a certain speed?  Is there any harm in operating the engine close to/at wide open throttle for extended periods of time?

For the record, I have a Volvo TMD22 (B?)...  I typically cruise at around 2400rpm, which yields a boat speed of about 6.5kts.  I have a fixed three-blade prop (probably the original spare).  I think the boat went faster at this RPM last year when I first bought her, but that could be me misremembering the RPM, or the tachometer going out of calibration, or the fact that I badly need a bottom job (though I had it scraped only a couple weeks ago).  I do not know my max RPM; my engine needs a new timing belt and I don't think it's prudent to stress it until that is replaced.  The fastest I've gone is about 2600 and I'm sure it can go higher.  I saw around 7.2kts STW at that speed.

Thanks,
Ryan and Kelly
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine cruising RPM

Teun BAAS
 

Hi Porter,

 

I understood you had a new VOLVO installed. If so, and it is a common rail, then there is NO need to run the engine on high rpms to “burn out the soot”.

 

This is the specific instruction I got this week from the SYDNEY VOLVO technician installing my VOLVO D3 110 H here in NOUMEA NEW CALEDONIA.

 

Best Regards Teun

AMELIT  54 – 128

NOUMEA NEW CALEDONIA

Jul 08, 2018   10:27:44

 

 

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2018 10:24 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine cruising RPM

 

 

Thanks Mark. 

If temp is the final data point, we cruise at about 79-80. What should be the goal?

Thanks again!

Porter


On Jul 7, 2018, at 11:13 AM, 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Porter,

 

It really doesn’t matter how you do it but you need to create internal engine heat to clean out the engine. This is done with a load on the engine. If in neutral, it will take longer to create a load and heat. In gear while underway will heat up the engine faster.

 

This is true for all diesel engines.

 

Where you run the RPM depends on the engine. Typically, 80% of max power will heat up the engine nicely without too much strain. This is also good for the turbocharger, if fitted with one.

 

How long? At least every couple of hours while underway, if not a little more frequently... We run ours up every hour for about five minutes. This works for us.

 

Keep in mind, this is not just the ship’s engine but also true for the genset. Running a genset without load will cause carbon buildup. Keep the genset loaded when charging batteries etc. We find it best to run a couple of AC units or do a load of laundry etc. The battery charger only puts load on the genset at the beginning of the charge cycle.

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Curacao

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, July 7, 2018 11:35 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine cruising RPM

 

 

Ok. Bullshit aside. 

I do have a few real questions, that I’ve had for a while. 

It’s the same for all diesels. Yes?  

Is “racing” out of gear best?  I would think load would be required to increase fuel consumption and thus heat. Fuel burn>>heat dissipation 2/2 raw water flow. 

Forget the rpm. Where is the throttle?  100% down? 80%?  

And for how long?  

 

Many thanks, as always to this great group. 

 

Porter

A54-152. 

 

 

Excuse the errors.  

Sent from my IPhone 


On Jul 7, 2018, at 9:02 AM, 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Bob,

 

Wow! Sorry. I didn’t realize I had to be so freaking specific. Seriously! The essence of the post I made is 100% correct. I didn’t intend to make a verbatim quote of the manual. If  I had, I would have used quotation marks. I stated this is OUTLINED in the manual. I did not say this is a DIRECT QUOTE from the manual. Geeez! And, please note I did say 4JH4 manual, not 4JH3 as you are quoting.

 

But if you want specific details of the JH4 Operation Manual, publication number OAJH4-G00102, page 78. I quote, “Periodically operate the engine near maximum speed while underway. This will generate higher exhaust temperatures, which help clean out hard carbon deposits, maintain engine performance and prolong the life of the engine”

This is below the section you quote about running it in idle and speaks specifically about running the engine while underway.

 

Regardless of whether this is done in neutral or in gear while underway, the purpose of the procedure is to raise the internal temperature of the engine periodically to remove carbon build up. Carbon build up will kill a diesel engine.

 

I’m feelin’ a little crabby today. Can you tell?

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Curacao

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, July 7, 2018 3:20 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine cruising RPM

 

 

Hi Mark,

Regarding "Running a lower RPMs without load will shorten the life of the engine unless it is pushed up at least once per hour for about 5 minutes. This is outlinede in the Yanmar operation manual."

 

This is not to challenge the veracity of your statement but I cannot find that in my Yanmar manual. Maybe you have a different manual and it would be helpful (really) to have you quote what it says. 

 

What my 4JH3-HTE Operation Manual says (on page 30 section 4.6) is: 

 

"When operating the engine at low speed ffor long periods of time, race the engine once every 2 hours"..."Racing the Engine, Morse Remote Control Handle Pull out the handle lever...and shift the engine speed from high to low several times...Racing the engine removes carbon built up in the compustion chamber around the fuel injection valve.  Neglecting to race tthe engine will cause the exhaust to turn black and lower the efficiency of the engine".

 

In other words it says to gun the engine several times while it is in neutral.

 

Like others, we vary my speed between 1600 and 2200 for cruising and can cruise up to 2400 rpm.  We also run it at say 2800 for 5 minutes or so periodically.  However, I cannot find where Yanmar recommends this.  There are postings in this group (not yours) that say to run it full out for 5 minutes, even full out fo 30 minutes but I don't think that is advisable. Seems that vibration is higher and it might be hard on the transmission and c drive as well.  Like most of us we vary the speed and run it harder at times but we also do the "Racing" procedure that is in our manual.

 

Bob and Suzanne, KAIMI #429

La Maddalena, Sardegna

 

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine cruising RPM

Porter McRoberts
 

Courtney!  We’ll get there too fast!  
Thanks again
Porter
A54-152



On Jul 7, 2018, at 1:49 PM, Courtney Gorman Itsfun1@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Porter both Joel and Bill told me to run my engine max 1 hr out of every to to keep it and the turbo happy 

I just wait until I want to hurry then kick ass 
Not fuel efficient but if everything else stays happy then........
Same with cars run them hard sometimes or they have issues 
Cheers 
Courtney 
sv Trippin 54 #101
Grenada 


On Jul 7, 2018, at 11:36 AM, John Clark john.biohead@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Ryan,
  TAMD22 with fixed prop,  at survey with fresh bottom and clean prop we maxed out at 2700rpm and 7-8 knots.  19 no later waiting for haul out and fresh paint we are maxing out around 2400 rpm and 6.5 kts.  Prop had some groth that a diver scraped a few months ago...probably not the cleanest prop at the moment.

John
SV Annie
about to run south from Beryl....

On Fri, Jul 6, 2018, 2:36 PM Ryan Meador ryan.d.meador@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi all,

I've dug through the forum history on the topic of the "correct" RPM range for the Super Maramu, and I haven't quite found what I want.  What I have learned is there probably is no single, correct answer -- it depends on the engine and the prop.  But what I really want to know is not what RPM I should be seeing at wide open throttle, but what RPM I should be cruising at?  By this I mean the RPM you would use if you needed to motor for a long period of time.  If the max RPM is different for everyone, it stands to reason that cruising RPM should also be different for everyone.  Is there some way of calculating this RPM from the max?  I've heard a rule of thumb of 80% of max RPM, but given that some of our engines are "over-propped" by design, I don't know if it applies, or even if it's a good rule in the first place.  Should we rev to whatever is necessary to go a certain speed?  Is there any harm in operating the engine close to/at wide open throttle for extended periods of time?

For the record, I have a Volvo TMD22 (B?)...  I typically cruise at around 2400rpm, which yields a boat speed of about 6.5kts.  I have a fixed three-blade prop (probably the original spare).  I think the boat went faster at this RPM last year when I first bought her, but that could be me misremembering the RPM, or the tachometer going out of calibration, or the fact that I badly need a bottom job (though I had it scraped only a couple weeks ago).  I do not know my max RPM; my engine needs a new timing belt and I don't think it's prudent to stress it until that is replaced.  The fastest I've gone is about 2600 and I'm sure it can go higher.  I saw around 7.2kts STW at that speed.

Thanks,
Ryan and Kelly
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine cruising RPM

Porter McRoberts
 

Thanks Mark. 
If temp is the final data point, we cruise at about 79-80. What should be the goal?
Thanks again!
Porter


On Jul 7, 2018, at 11:13 AM, 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Porter,

 

It really doesn’t matter how you do it but you need to create internal engine heat to clean out the engine. This is done with a load on the engine. If in neutral, it will take longer to create a load and heat. In gear while underway will heat up the engine faster.

 

This is true for all diesel engines.

 

Where you run the RPM depends on the engine. Typically, 80% of max power will heat up the engine nicely without too much strain. This is also good for the turbocharger, if fitted with one.

 

How long? At least every couple of hours while underway, if not a little more frequently.. We run ours up every hour for about five minutes. This works for us.

 

Keep in mind, this is not just the ship’s engine but also true for the genset. Running a genset without load will cause carbon buildup. Keep the genset loaded when charging batteries etc. We find it best to run a couple of AC units or do a load of laundry etc. The battery charger only puts load on the genset at the beginning of the charge cycle.

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Curacao

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, July 7, 2018 11:35 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine cruising RPM

 

 

Ok. Bullshit aside. 

I do have a few real questions, that I’ve had for a while. 

It’s the same for all diesels. Yes?  

Is “racing” out of gear best?  I would think load would be required to increase fuel consumption and thus heat. Fuel burn>>heat dissipation 2/2 raw water flow. 

Forget the rpm. Where is the throttle?  100% down? 80%?  

And for how long?  

 

Many thanks, as always to this great group. 

 

Porter

A54-152. 

 

 

Excuse the errors.  

Sent from my IPhone 


On Jul 7, 2018, at 9:02 AM, 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Bob,

 

Wow! Sorry. I didn’t realize I had to be so freaking specific. Seriously! The essence of the post I made is 100% correct. I didn’t intend to make a verbatim quote of the manual. If  I had, I would have used quotation marks. I stated this is OUTLINED in the manual. I did not say this is a DIRECT QUOTE from the manual. Geeez! And, please note I did say 4JH4 manual, not 4JH3 as you are quoting.

 

But if you want specific details of the JH4 Operation Manual, publication number OAJH4-G00102, page 78. I quote, “Periodically operate the engine near maximum speed while underway. This will generate higher exhaust temperatures, which help clean out hard carbon deposits, maintain engine performance and prolong the life of the engine”

This is below the section you quote about running it in idle and speaks specifically about running the engine while underway.

 

Regardless of whether this is done in neutral or in gear while underway, the purpose of the procedure is to raise the internal temperature of the engine periodically to remove carbon build up. Carbon build up will kill a diesel engine.

 

I’m feelin’ a little crabby today. Can you tell?

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Curacao

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, July 7, 2018 3:20 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine cruising RPM

 

 

Hi Mark,

Regarding "Running a lower RPMs without load will shorten the life of the engine unless it is pushed up at least once per hour for about 5 minutes. This is outlinede in the Yanmar operation manual."

 

This is not to challenge the veracity of your statement but I cannot find that in my Yanmar manual. Maybe you have a different manual and it would be helpful (really) to have you quote what it says. 

 

What my 4JH3-HTE Operation Manual says (on page 30 section 4.6) is: 

 

"When operating the engine at low speed ffor long periods of time, race the engine once every 2 hours"..."Racing the Engine, Morse Remote Control Handle Pull out the handle lever...and shift the engine speed from high to low several times...Racing the engine removes carbon built up in the compustion chamber around the fuel injection valve.  Neglecting to race tthe engine will cause the exhaust to turn black and lower the efficiency of the engine".

 

In other words it says to gun the engine several times while it is in neutral.

 

Like others, we vary my speed between 1600 and 2200 for cruising and can cruise up to 2400 rpm.  We also run it at say 2800 for 5 minutes or so periodically.  However, I cannot find where Yanmar recommends this.  There are postings in this group (not yours) that say to run it full out for 5 minutes, even full out fo 30 minutes but I don't think that is advisable. Seems that vibration is higher and it might be hard on the transmission and c drive as well.  Like most of us we vary the speed and run it harder at times but we also do the "Racing" procedure that is in our manual.

 

Bob and Suzanne, KAIMI #429

La Maddalena, Sardegna

 

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Onan Water Pump

Mark Erdos
 

Duane,

 

I opted to install an in-line strainer. It has worked very well and I wish I had done it sooner. The strainer is made by Banjo and is heavy-duty glass reinforced polypropylene. It contains a stainless steel mesh screen. The basket can be checked by removing a plug at the bottom but I prefer to remove the basket covering to check for impeller blades. I found this to be the less messy method

 

Here is a pic:

 

 

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/amelyachtowners/photos/albums/1867763827/lightbox/303227963?orderBy=ordinal&sortOrder=asc&photoFilter=ALL#zax/303227963

 

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Curacao

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, July 7, 2018 2:41 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Onan Water Pump

 

 

There was some discussion in 2015 about adding a strainer to the Onan raw water hose going before the heat exchanger.  I'm supposing several people might have done that and I was wondering if sometone could post a photo of the installation and your opinion on the operation.  

 

Here is a sample of what I thought was being installed (perhaps a different manufacturer):

 

file:///C:/Users/Duane/Downloads/Y%20Strainers%20-%20Filtration%20-%20Grainger%20Industrial%20Supply.pdf

 

Thanks,

Duane

Wanderer, SM#477

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Onan Water Pump

 

The Onan 4 cylinder and the Onan 3 cylinder Kubota take the same water pump (Onan 132-0459 132−0358) (Sherwood G-702)...probably year 1995 to 2015...maybe more years.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970

Any opinions and conclusions expressed in this message are solely those of the author and should not be construed as representing the opinion of an expert. Manufacturers' and Expert's precautions must be taken when dealing with mechanical and/or electrical systems to ensure that you are NOT harmed, and/or the device and/or system is NOT ruined. If in doubt, do not touch any referred to mechanical and/or electrical device or system.


On Sat, Jul 7, 2018 at 9:39 AM Alex Ramseyer alexramseyer@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Mark,
I found the G702 on Amazon and would like to order one as a spare.
However, I need to be sure that pump is the right one for my MDKAW model from 2005. Do all ONAN that we use on our AMELS have the same pump? Where can i  ask/research to be sure in case there are different Sherwood pumps for our ONANS available?
Thans, Alex
SY NO STRESS
AMEL54 #15

On Saturday, July 7, 2018, 8:58:29 AM GMT-4, sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 


Duane,
Actually, you're right - it is easy-peasy and you definitely don't need to go to the expense of a shop rebuilt. I agree with Mark that having two pumps works great - you can rebuild one at your leisure after popping the new one on. I do this with both my genset and my main engine water pumps - have rebuilt them both many times over the years.
In lieu of a press you can just carefully tap out the shaft using a socket from your socket wrench set as a "pusher". On reassembly you may want to put parts in the freezer and/or hot water to make them go together more easily. Sourcing parts is easy.
Have fun with it!
Cheers, Craig Briggs

---In amelyachtowners@... om, wrote :

Bill R.,

Thank for your post.  I actually had a rebuild kit on board (memory is an occasional thing for me these days it seems) and though easi-peasi, just rebuild the pump!  But it will take a shop to get this one apart.

I agree with you, another pump is the way to go.

Duane


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] New file uploaded to amelyachtowners

Jean-Pierre's MacBook Air <jgermain@...>
 

I have this Y installed plus a one way check. Valve with spring ball to keep the water trapped upon genes shutdown.

Adds a lot to peace of mind and definitely adds 50 hours to the “now junk” time.

Jean-Pierre Germain
SY Eleuthera, SM007

On 7 Jul 2018, at 08:37, amelyachtowners@... wrote:

Hello


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine cruising RPM

Courtney Gorman
 

Porter both Joel and Bill told me to run my engine max 1 hr out of every to to keep it and the turbo happy 
I just wait until I want to hurry then kick ass 
Not fuel efficient but if everything else stays happy then........
Same with cars run them hard sometimes or they have issues 
Cheers 
Courtney 
sv Trippin 54 #101
Grenada 


On Jul 7, 2018, at 11:36 AM, John Clark john.biohead@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Ryan,
  TAMD22 with fixed prop,  at survey with fresh bottom and clean prop we maxed out at 2700rpm and 7-8 knots.  19 no later waiting for haul out and fresh paint we are maxing out around 2400 rpm and 6.5 kts.  Prop had some groth that a diver scraped a few months ago...probably not the cleanest prop at the moment.

John
SV Annie
about to run south from Beryl....

On Fri, Jul 6, 2018, 2:36 PM Ryan Meador ryan.d.meador@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi all,

I've dug through the forum history on the topic of the "correct" RPM range for the Super Maramu, and I haven't quite found what I want.  What I have learned is there probably is no single, correct answer -- it depends on the engine and the prop.  But what I really want to know is not what RPM I should be seeing at wide open throttle, but what RPM I should be cruising at?  By this I mean the RPM you would use if you needed to motor for a long period of time.  If the max RPM is different for everyone, it stands to reason that cruising RPM should also be different for everyone.  Is there some way of calculating this RPM from the max?  I've heard a rule of thumb of 80% of max RPM, but given that some of our engines are "over-propped" by design, I don't know if it applies, or even if it's a good rule in the first place.  Should we rev to whatever is necessary to go a certain speed?  Is there any harm in operating the engine close to/at wide open throttle for extended periods of time?

For the record, I have a Volvo TMD22 (B?)...  I typically cruise at around 2400rpm, which yields a boat speed of about 6.5kts.  I have a fixed three-blade prop (probably the original spare).  I think the boat went faster at this RPM last year when I first bought her, but that could be me misremembering the RPM, or the tachometer going out of calibration, or the fact that I badly need a bottom job (though I had it scraped only a couple weeks ago).  I do not know my max RPM; my engine needs a new timing belt and I don't think it's prudent to stress it until that is replaced.  The fastest I've gone is about 2600 and I'm sure it can go higher.  I saw around 7.2kts STW at that speed.

Thanks,
Ryan and Kelly
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA


Re: Onan Water Pump

Duane Siegfri
 

There was some discussion in 2015 about adding a strainer to the Onan raw water hose going before the heat exchanger.  I'm supposing several people might have done that and I was wondering if sometone could post a photo of the installation and your opinion on the operation.  

Here is a sample of what I thought was being installed (perhaps a different manufacturer):

file:///C:/Users/Duane/Downloads/Y%20Strainers%20-%20Filtration%20-%20Grainger%20Industrial%20Supply.pdf

Thanks,
Duane
Wanderer, SM#477


New file uploaded to amelyachtowners

amelyachtowners@...
 

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the amelyachtowners
group.

File : /Onan Genset Information/Y Strainers - Filtration - Grainger Industrial Supply.pdf
Uploaded by : sailor63109 <sailor63109@yahoo.com>
Description : Strainer to catch impeller debris on hose to heat exchanger.

You can access this file at the URL:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/amelyachtowners/files/Onan%20Genset%20Information/Y%20Strainers%20-%20Filtration%20-%20Grainger%20Industrial%20Supply.pdf

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
https://help.yahoo.com/kb/index?page=content&y=PROD_GRPS&locale=en_US&id=SLN15398

Regards,

sailor63109 <sailor63109@yahoo.com>