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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Onan Water Pump
ianjenkins1946 <ianjudyjenkins@hotmail.com>
Hi Mark and Duane ,
Having spent a couple of hours this morning fitting a new impeller to my Onan plus cleaning the broken impeller blades from the heat exchangerwould be interested in that same item - can you send me the reference
On 8 Jul 2018, at 15:40, sailor63109@... [amelyachtowners] < amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
Mark,
Thanks for the photo and the part reference. I was wondering how I would support a heavy bronze fitting off the hose, but the plastic one you used appears not to need support, so another problem solved!
Thanks!
Duane
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Freshwater Pump - pressure sensing mechanical switch
Colin - ex SV Island Pearl
Thank you Wolfgang, you are correct. Earlier on we had noticed that the pump never kept running when plugged into a marina shore power, as batteries always fully charged, but then started it's nonsense again every morning at anchor as the charge fell below 25.1 volts.
That was the first problem we had some 3 months before it got much worse.
We are sorted now, as a new pressure switch is being sent out by Amel (our one will be fixed and kept as a spare) and we have also a 2nd complete fresh water pump system which bypasses the original one (with it's own one way valve and pressure switch), and quick system change over taps to change over between the two separate systems. In this way we will be back in business tomorrow and can also go back to the original Amel system (and visa versa) when that new pressure switch part finally arrives from Amel.
Thanks to all for the suggestions and assistance. Also a special thanks to Bill Rouse for the huge amount of very informative fresh water pump setting information (10 pages) sent privately from his exceptional 400+ page Amel maintenance book. Whist I do not have a copy of Bill's complete book, from the 10 pages I have now seen, I would think his book should be the first resource any new (or existing) Amel owner should turn to, and keep handy on board.
Fair winds
Colin Streeter SV Island Pearl II - SM#332
On Sun, Jul 8, 2018 at 6:02 PM, webercardio webercardio@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
Our freshwaterpump did not stop running, when the voltage of the batterie were low. Wolfgang Weber SY Elise Amel 54#162
-- Colin Streeter0411 016 445
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine cruising RPM
Porter McRoberts
Teun, Mostly true. New long block 800 hours ago and New injectors about 400 hours ago. It is a common rail. On a different topic. We’re currently stuck in panama with a bad boost pressure sensor. I have envy of anyone who can unplug the computer and have the engine run. The concept that a computer controlled engine be installed in a world cruising sailboat seems antithetical to the purpose of a sailboat, and to ours in particular. I’ve been training (at your knees, and especially Bill R’s) for the past year to be as self sufficient as possible, and to be thwarted by a stray electron underscores how vulnerable we are. Our cruising buddies are on a 1984 trintella. Sailed from Croatia. They are in year #5. Old Perkins runs like a boss. I asked my buddy, who is in his own right a Jedi of machinery, how often he changes his fuel filters. He chuckled. “I don’t think I’ve needed to do that” he said. Pressure’s good. Engine runs well. I had engine envy. Not that the Volvo isn’t a fine piece of hardware, but.... it’s the intersection of important and complicated. Not a good combo. Like I say. Thank God for sails, and the fact that we sailors got around just fine for the first 1000 years without motors.
In short. Seems like diesels (or the industry and associated standards) took a step back in the past 15 years putting efficiency over simplicity. I think Nigel Calder would agree.
Have wonderful Sundays. Without this motor glitch we wouldn’t have seen the incredibly beautiful town of El Valle up here in the Panamanian cordillera.
Porter, Helen and crew S/V Ibis 54-152 Panama City
On Jul 7, 2018, at 6:30 PM, Teun BAAS teun@... [amelyachtowners] < amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
Hi Porter,
I understood you had a new VOLVO installed. If so,
and it is a common rail, then there is NO need to run the engine on high rpms to “burn out the soot”.
This is the specific instruction I got this week from the SYDNEY VOLVO technician installing my VOLVO D3 110 H here in NOUMEA NEW CALEDONIA.
Best Regards Teun
AMELIT 54 – 128
NOUMEA NEW CALEDONIA
Jul 08, 2018
10:27:44
Thanks Mark.
If temp is the final data point, we cruise at about 79-80. What should be the goal?
Porter
Porter,
It really doesn’t matter how you do it but you need to create internal engine heat to clean out the engine. This is done with a load
on the engine. If in neutral, it will take longer to create a load and heat. In gear while underway will heat up the engine faster.
This is true for all diesel engines.
Where you run the RPM depends on the engine. Typically, 80% of max power will heat up the engine nicely without too much strain. This
is also good for the turbocharger, if fitted with one.
How long? At least every couple of hours while underway, if not a little more frequently... We run ours up every hour for about five
minutes. This works for us.
Keep in mind, this is not just the ship’s engine but also true for the genset. Running a genset without load will cause carbon buildup.
Keep the genset loaded when charging batteries etc. We find it best to run a couple of AC units or do a load of laundry etc. The battery charger only puts load on the genset at the beginning of the charge cycle.
Hope this helps.
With best regards,
Mark
Skipper
Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275
Currently cruising -
Curacao
www.creampuff.us
Ok. Bullshit aside.
I do have a few real questions, that I’ve had for a while.
It’s the same for all diesels. Yes?
Is “racing” out of gear best? I would think load would be required to increase fuel consumption and thus heat. Fuel burn>>heat dissipation 2/2 raw water flow.
Forget the rpm. Where is the throttle? 100% down? 80%?
Many thanks, as always to this great group.
Bob,
Wow! Sorry. I didn’t realize I had to be so freaking specific. Seriously! The essence of the post I made is 100% correct. I didn’t intend
to make a verbatim quote of the manual. If I had, I would have used quotation marks. I stated this is OUTLINED in the manual. I did not say this is a DIRECT QUOTE from the manual. Geeez! And, please note I did say 4JH4 manual, not 4JH3 as you are quoting.
But if you want specific details of the JH4 Operation Manual, publication number OAJH4-G00102, page 78. I quote, “Periodically operate
the engine near maximum speed while underway. This will generate higher exhaust temperatures, which help clean out hard carbon deposits, maintain engine performance and prolong the life of the engine”
This is below the section you quote about running it in idle and speaks specifically about running the engine
while underway.
Regardless of whether this is done in neutral or in gear while underway, the purpose of the procedure is to raise the internal temperature
of the engine periodically to remove carbon build up. Carbon build up will kill a diesel engine.
I’m feelin’ a little crabby today. Can you tell?
With best regards,
Mark
Skipper
Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275
Currently cruising -
Curacao
www.creampuff.us
Hi Mark,
Regarding "Running a lower RPMs without load will shorten the life of the engine unless it is pushed up at least once per hour for about 5 minutes. This is outlinede in the Yanmar
operation manual."
This is not to challenge the veracity of your statement but I cannot find that in my Yanmar manual. Maybe you have a different manual and it would be helpful (really) to have you
quote what it says.
What my 4JH3-HTE Operation Manual says (on page 30 section 4.6) is:
"When operating the engine at low speed ffor long periods of time, race the engine once every 2 hours"..."Racing the Engine, Morse Remote Control Handle Pull out the handle lever...and
shift the engine speed from high to low several times...Racing the engine removes carbon built up in the compustion chamber around the fuel injection valve. Neglecting to race tthe engine will cause the exhaust to turn black and lower the efficiency of the
engine".
In other words it says to gun the engine several times while it is in neutral.
Like others, we vary my speed between 1600 and 2200 for cruising and can cruise up to 2400 rpm. We also run it at say 2800 for 5 minutes or so periodically. However, I cannot
find where Yanmar recommends this. There are postings in this group (not yours) that say to run it full out for 5 minutes, even full out fo 30 minutes but I don't think that is advisable. Seems that vibration is higher and it might be hard on the transmission
and c drive as well. Like most of us we vary the speed and run it harder at times but we also do the "Racing" procedure that is in our manual.
Bob and Suzanne, KAIMI #429
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Sad video of Nikimat
Mark Garver
Hard to watch, I remember seeing the message here about Alex’s loss right after Irma. He does continue to help on this forum and in many other ways!
Godspeed Alexandre and Nikimat!
On Jul 8, 2018, at 8:29 AM, brentcameron61@... [amelyachtowners] < amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
I stumbled across this video yesterday. Apparently Nikimat (2001 Super Maramu, Hull # 289) is going to be parted out to rebuild Agapanthe (Rafael's boat a 1999 Super Maramu, Hull #246). Both were totalled in Hurricane Irma at St. Martin. I only post this to show the toughness of these boats. I know many of us wondered exactly what kind of damage it would take to sink a Super Maramu. Despite severe damage and being nearly chopped in half, Nikimat looks to be in remarkably good condition considering what she lived through in her final hours. (I did check with Alexandre before posting this). Despite everything he's gone through, he continues to be a leader in this great community, helping others.
http://picbear.online/used_boats_for_sale_caribbean
Brent Cameron Future Super Maramu owner
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Re: Freshwater Pump - pressure sensing mechanical switch
webercardio <webercardio@...>
Our freshwaterpump did not stop running, when the voltage of the batterie were low. Wolfgang Weber SY Elise Amel 54#162
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Mark,
Thanks for the photo and the part reference. I was wondering how I would support a heavy bronze fitting off the hose, but the plastic one you used appears not to need support, so another problem solved!
Thanks! Duane
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Brent Cameron
I stumbled across this video yesterday. Apparently Nikimat (2001 Super Maramu, Hull # 289) is going to be parted out to rebuild Agapanthe (Rafael's boat a 1999 Super Maramu, Hull #246). Both were totalled in Hurricane Irma at St. Martin. I only post this to show the toughness of these boats. I know many of us wondered exactly what kind of damage it would take to sink a Super Maramu. Despite severe damage and being nearly chopped in half, Nikimat looks to be in remarkably good condition considering what she lived through in her final hours. (I did check with Alexandre before posting this). Despite everything he's gone through, he continues to be a leader in this great community, helping others.
http://picbear.online/used_boats_for_sale_caribbean
Brent Cameron Future Super Maramu owner
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine cruising RPM
Mark Erdos
Porter,
I think you
need to look in the manual for the correct temperature range of the engine. It
should give you a range in the specs section. You will want to run at the high
end of the range for a few minutes.
My 4jh4 tops
out at 87°C or about 190°F. At lower RPMs it runs just below 82°C or about 180°F
With best
regards,
Mark
Skipper
Sailing Vessel
- Cream Puff - SM2K - #275
Currently
cruising - Curacao
www.creampuff.us
From:
amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, July 7, 2018 7:24 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine cruising RPM
Thanks Mark.
If temp is the final data point, we cruise at about 79-80.
What should be the goal?
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On Jul 7, 2018, at 11:13 AM, 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@...
[amelyachtowners] < amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:
Porter,
It really doesn’t matter how you do it
but you need to create internal engine heat to clean out the engine. This is
done with a load on the engine. If in neutral, it will take longer to create a
load and heat. In gear while underway will heat up the engine faster.
This is true for all diesel engines.
Where you run the RPM depends on the
engine. Typically, 80% of max power will heat up the engine nicely without too
much strain. This is also good for the turbocharger, if fitted with one.
How long? At least every couple of hours
while underway, if not a little more frequently... We run ours up every hour
for about five minutes. This works for us.
Keep in mind, this is not just the
ship’s engine but also true for the genset. Running a genset without load will
cause carbon buildup. Keep the genset loaded when charging batteries etc. We
find it best to run a couple of AC units or do a load of laundry etc. The
battery charger only puts load on the genset at the beginning of the charge
cycle.
Hope this helps.
With best regards,
Mark
Skipper
Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275
Currently cruising - Curacao
www.creampuff.us
Ok. Bullshit aside.
I
do have a few real questions, that I’ve had for a while.
It’s
the same for all diesels. Yes?
Is
“racing” out of gear best? I would think load would be required to
increase fuel consumption and thus heat. Fuel burn>>heat dissipation 2/2
raw water flow.
Forget
the rpm. Where is the throttle? 100% down? 80%?
Many
thanks, as always to this great group.
Bob,
Wow! Sorry. I didn’t realize I had to be
so freaking specific. Seriously! The essence of the post I made is 100%
correct. I didn’t intend to make a verbatim quote of the manual. If I
had, I would have used quotation marks. I stated this is OUTLINED in the
manual. I did not say this is a DIRECT QUOTE from the manual. Geeez! And,
please note I did say 4JH4 manual, not 4JH3 as you are quoting.
But if you want specific details of the
JH4 Operation Manual, publication number OAJH4-G00102, page 78. I quote,
“Periodically operate the engine near maximum speed while underway. This will
generate higher exhaust temperatures, which help clean out hard carbon
deposits, maintain engine performance and prolong the life of the engine”
This is below the section you quote
about running it in idle and speaks specifically about running the engine while
underway.
Regardless of whether this is done in
neutral or in gear while underway, the purpose of the procedure is to raise the
internal temperature of the engine periodically to remove carbon build up.
Carbon build up will kill a diesel engine.
I’m feelin’ a little crabby today. Can
you tell?
With best regards,
Mark
Skipper
Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275
Currently cruising - Curacao
www.creampuff.us
Hi Mark,
Regarding
"Running a lower RPMs without load will shorten the life of the engine
unless it is pushed up at least once per hour for about 5 minutes. This is
outlinede in the Yanmar operation manual."
This
is not to challenge the veracity of your statement but I cannot find that in my
Yanmar manual. Maybe you have a different manual and it would be helpful
(really) to have you quote what it says.
What
my 4JH3-HTE Operation Manual says (on page 30 section 4.6) is:
"When
operating the engine at low speed ffor long periods of time, race the engine
once every 2 hours"..."Racing the Engine, Morse Remote Control Handle
Pull out the handle lever...and shift the engine speed from high to low several
times...Racing the engine removes carbon built up in the compustion chamber
around the fuel injection valve. Neglecting to race tthe engine will
cause the exhaust to turn black and lower the efficiency of the engine".
In
other words it says to gun the engine several times while it is in neutral.
Like
others, we vary my speed between 1600 and 2200 for cruising and can cruise up
to 2400 rpm. We also run it at say 2800 for 5 minutes or so
periodically. However, I cannot find where Yanmar recommends this.
There are postings in this group (not yours) that say to run it full out for 5
minutes, even full out fo 30 minutes but I don't think that is advisable. Seems
that vibration is higher and it might be hard on the transmission and c drive
as well. Like most of us we vary the speed and run it harder at times but
we also do the "Racing" procedure that is in our manual.
Bob
and Suzanne, KAIMI #429
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine cruising RPM
Mark Erdos
Teun,
Common rail
engines have been around for years and while they offer lower emissions and
soot from the exhaust they are not the cure-all. The thing to remember here is
all marine diesel engines are engines designed for land adapted to a marine
application. No diesel engine is designed to run at 25% power for days on end. If
a land based application called for only 25 hp then a 25 hp engine would be
used, not a 110 hp engine. It is my opinion the even the most modern newest technologically
advanced diesel engine still has emission issues (soot and carbon buildup) at
low end rpms. Look at the recent history of VW and how they adjusted the
software of the engine to trick the emissions computers. They did this because their
latest efforts at design and massive expenditure failed to produce a clean
burning diesel engine.
So, the question
I have for you is, what does it hurt to push up the RPM once in a while? If the
engine is designed to run at x RPM then it should be able to run at 80% of x
rpm for at least five minutes per hour, should it not?
With best
regards,
Mark
Skipper
Sailing Vessel
- Cream Puff - SM2K - #275
Currently
cruising - Curacao
www.creampuff.us
From:
amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, July 7, 2018 7:30 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine cruising RPM
Importance: High
Hi Porter,
I understood you had a
new VOLVO installed. If so, and it is a common rail, then there is NO
need to run the engine on high rpms to “burn out the soot”.
This is the specific
instruction I got this week from the SYDNEY VOLVO technician installing my
VOLVO D3 110 H here in NOUMEA NEW CALEDONIA.
Best
Regards Teun
AMELIT
54 – 128
NOUMEA
NEW CALEDONIA
Jul 08, 2018 10:27:44
From:
amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2018 10:24 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine cruising RPM
Thanks Mark.
If
temp is the final data point, we cruise at about 79-80. What should be the goal?
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On Jul 7, 2018, at 11:13 AM, 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@...
[amelyachtowners] < amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:
Porter,
It really doesn’t matter how you do it
but you need to create internal engine heat to clean out the engine. This is
done with a load on the engine. If in neutral, it will take longer to create a
load and heat. In gear while underway will heat up the engine faster.
This is true for all diesel engines.
Where you run the RPM depends on the
engine. Typically, 80% of max power will heat up the engine nicely without too
much strain. This is also good for the turbocharger, if fitted with one.
How long? At least every couple of hours
while underway, if not a little more frequently... We run ours up every hour
for about five minutes. This works for us.
Keep in mind, this is not just the
ship’s engine but also true for the genset. Running a genset without load will
cause carbon buildup. Keep the genset loaded when charging batteries etc. We
find it best to run a couple of AC units or do a load of laundry etc. The
battery charger only puts load on the genset at the beginning of the charge
cycle.
Hope this helps.
With best regards,
Mark
Skipper
Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275
Currently cruising - Curacao
www.creampuff.us
Ok. Bullshit aside.
I
do have a few real questions, that I’ve had for a while.
It’s
the same for all diesels. Yes?
Is
“racing” out of gear best? I would think load would be required to
increase fuel consumption and thus heat. Fuel burn>>heat dissipation 2/2
raw water flow.
Forget
the rpm. Where is the throttle? 100% down? 80%?
Many
thanks, as always to this great group.
Bob,
Wow! Sorry. I didn’t realize I had to be
so freaking specific. Seriously! The essence of the post I made is 100%
correct. I didn’t intend to make a verbatim quote of the manual. If I
had, I would have used quotation marks. I stated this is OUTLINED in the
manual. I did not say this is a DIRECT QUOTE from the manual. Geeez! And,
please note I did say 4JH4 manual, not 4JH3 as you are quoting.
But if you want specific details of the
JH4 Operation Manual, publication number OAJH4-G00102, page 78. I quote,
“Periodically operate the engine near maximum speed while underway. This will
generate higher exhaust temperatures, which help clean out hard carbon
deposits, maintain engine performance and prolong the life of the engine”
This is below the section you quote
about running it in idle and speaks specifically about running the engine while
underway.
Regardless of whether this is done in
neutral or in gear while underway, the purpose of the procedure is to raise the
internal temperature of the engine periodically to remove carbon build up.
Carbon build up will kill a diesel engine.
I’m feelin’ a little crabby today. Can
you tell?
With best regards,
Mark
Skipper
Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275
Currently cruising - Curacao
www.creampuff.us
Hi Mark,
Regarding
"Running a lower RPMs without load will shorten the life of the engine
unless it is pushed up at least once per hour for about 5 minutes. This is
outlinede in the Yanmar operation manual."
This
is not to challenge the veracity of your statement but I cannot find that in my
Yanmar manual. Maybe you have a different manual and it would be helpful
(really) to have you quote what it says.
What
my 4JH3-HTE Operation Manual says (on page 30 section 4.6) is:
"When
operating the engine at low speed ffor long periods of time, race the engine
once every 2 hours"..."Racing the Engine, Morse Remote Control Handle
Pull out the handle lever...and shift the engine speed from high to low several
times...Racing the engine removes carbon built up in the compustion chamber
around the fuel injection valve. Neglecting to race tthe engine will
cause the exhaust to turn black and lower the efficiency of the engine".
In
other words it says to gun the engine several times while it is in neutral.
Like
others, we vary my speed between 1600 and 2200 for cruising and can cruise up
to 2400 rpm. We also run it at say 2800 for 5 minutes or so
periodically. However, I cannot find where Yanmar recommends this.
There are postings in this group (not yours) that say to run it full out for 5
minutes, even full out fo 30 minutes but I don't think that is advisable. Seems
that vibration is higher and it might be hard on the transmission and c drive
as well. Like most of us we vary the speed and run it harder at times but
we also do the "Racing" procedure that is in our manual.
Bob
and Suzanne, KAIMI #429
|
|
|
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine cruising RPM
Thanks Mark, Good to know, just couldn't find it in our manual so I do appreciate the citation from the other Yanmar manual. Based on that I think I feel better about operating at higher speeds periodically--we max out at about 3300 rpm.
Bob KAIMI SM#429
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine cruising RPM
Courtney Gorman
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On Jul 7, 2018, at 7:26 PM, Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] < amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
Courtney! We’ll get there too fast! Thanks again Porter A54-152
Porter both Joel and Bill told me to run my engine max 1 hr out of every to to keep it and the turbo happy I just wait until I want to hurry then kick ass Not fuel efficient but if everything else stays happy then........ Same with cars run them hard sometimes or they have issues Cheers Courtney sv Trippin 54 #101 Grenada
Hi Ryan, TAMD22 with fixed prop, at survey with fresh bottom and clean prop we maxed out at 2700rpm and 7-8 knots. 19 no later waiting for haul out and fresh paint we are maxing out around 2400 rpm and 6.5 kts. Prop had some groth that a diver scraped a few months ago...probably not the cleanest prop at the moment.
John SV Annie about to run south from Beryl....
Hi all,
I've dug through the forum history on the topic of the "correct" RPM range for the Super Maramu, and I haven't quite found what I want. What I have learned is there probably is no single, correct answer -- it depends on the engine and the prop. But what I really want to know is not what RPM I should be seeing at wide open throttle, but what RPM I should be cruising at? By this I mean the RPM you would use if you needed to motor for a long period of time. If the max RPM is different for everyone, it stands to reason that cruising RPM should also be different for everyone. Is there some way of calculating this RPM from the max? I've heard a rule of thumb of 80% of max RPM, but given that some of our engines are "over-propped" by design, I don't know if it applies, or even if it's a good rule in the first place. Should we rev to whatever is necessary to go a certain speed? Is there any harm in operating the engine close to/at wide open throttle for extended periods of time?
For the record, I have a Volvo TMD22 (B?)... I typically cruise at around 2400rpm, which yields a boat speed of about 6.5kts. I have a fixed three-blade prop (probably the original spare). I think the boat went faster at this RPM last year when I first bought her, but that could be me misremembering the RPM, or the tachometer going out of calibration, or the fact that I badly need a bottom job (though I had it scraped only a couple weeks ago). I do not know my max RPM; my engine needs a new timing belt and I don't think it's prudent to stress it until that is replaced. The fastest I've gone is about 2600 and I'm sure it can go higher. I saw around 7.2kts STW at that speed.
Thanks, Ryan and Kelly SM 233 Iteration Boston, MA, USA
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine cruising RPM
Teun BAAS
Hi Porter,
I understood you had a new VOLVO installed. If so,
and it is a common rail, then there is NO need to run the engine on high rpms to “burn out the soot”.
This is the specific instruction I got this week from the SYDNEY VOLVO technician installing my VOLVO D3 110 H here in NOUMEA NEW CALEDONIA.
Best Regards Teun
AMELIT 54 – 128
NOUMEA NEW CALEDONIA
Jul 08, 2018
10:27:44
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2018 10:24 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine cruising RPM
Thanks Mark.
If temp is the final data point, we cruise at about 79-80. What should be the goal?
Porter
Porter,
It really doesn’t matter how you do it but you need to create internal engine heat to clean out the engine. This is done with a load
on the engine. If in neutral, it will take longer to create a load and heat. In gear while underway will heat up the engine faster.
This is true for all diesel engines.
Where you run the RPM depends on the engine. Typically, 80% of max power will heat up the engine nicely without too much strain. This
is also good for the turbocharger, if fitted with one.
How long? At least every couple of hours while underway, if not a little more frequently... We run ours up every hour for about five
minutes. This works for us.
Keep in mind, this is not just the ship’s engine but also true for the genset. Running a genset without load will cause carbon buildup.
Keep the genset loaded when charging batteries etc. We find it best to run a couple of AC units or do a load of laundry etc. The battery charger only puts load on the genset at the beginning of the charge cycle.
Hope this helps.
With best regards,
Mark
Skipper
Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275
Currently cruising -
Curacao
www.creampuff.us
Ok. Bullshit aside.
I do have a few real questions, that I’ve had for a while.
It’s the same for all diesels. Yes?
Is “racing” out of gear best? I would think load would be required to increase fuel consumption and thus heat. Fuel burn>>heat dissipation 2/2 raw water flow.
Forget the rpm. Where is the throttle? 100% down? 80%?
Many thanks, as always to this great group.
Bob,
Wow! Sorry. I didn’t realize I had to be so freaking specific. Seriously! The essence of the post I made is 100% correct. I didn’t intend
to make a verbatim quote of the manual. If I had, I would have used quotation marks. I stated this is OUTLINED in the manual. I did not say this is a DIRECT QUOTE from the manual. Geeez! And, please note I did say 4JH4 manual, not 4JH3 as you are quoting.
But if you want specific details of the JH4 Operation Manual, publication number OAJH4-G00102, page 78. I quote, “Periodically operate
the engine near maximum speed while underway. This will generate higher exhaust temperatures, which help clean out hard carbon deposits, maintain engine performance and prolong the life of the engine”
This is below the section you quote about running it in idle and speaks specifically about running the engine
while underway.
Regardless of whether this is done in neutral or in gear while underway, the purpose of the procedure is to raise the internal temperature
of the engine periodically to remove carbon build up. Carbon build up will kill a diesel engine.
I’m feelin’ a little crabby today. Can you tell?
With best regards,
Mark
Skipper
Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275
Currently cruising -
Curacao
www.creampuff.us
Hi Mark,
Regarding "Running a lower RPMs without load will shorten the life of the engine unless it is pushed up at least once per hour for about 5 minutes. This is outlinede in the Yanmar
operation manual."
This is not to challenge the veracity of your statement but I cannot find that in my Yanmar manual. Maybe you have a different manual and it would be helpful (really) to have you
quote what it says.
What my 4JH3-HTE Operation Manual says (on page 30 section 4.6) is:
"When operating the engine at low speed ffor long periods of time, race the engine once every 2 hours"..."Racing the Engine, Morse Remote Control Handle Pull out the handle lever...and
shift the engine speed from high to low several times...Racing the engine removes carbon built up in the compustion chamber around the fuel injection valve. Neglecting to race tthe engine will cause the exhaust to turn black and lower the efficiency of the
engine".
In other words it says to gun the engine several times while it is in neutral.
Like others, we vary my speed between 1600 and 2200 for cruising and can cruise up to 2400 rpm. We also run it at say 2800 for 5 minutes or so periodically. However, I cannot
find where Yanmar recommends this. There are postings in this group (not yours) that say to run it full out for 5 minutes, even full out fo 30 minutes but I don't think that is advisable. Seems that vibration is higher and it might be hard on the transmission
and c drive as well. Like most of us we vary the speed and run it harder at times but we also do the "Racing" procedure that is in our manual.
Bob and Suzanne, KAIMI #429
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine cruising RPM
Porter McRoberts
Courtney! We’ll get there too fast! Thanks again Porter A54-152
On Jul 7, 2018, at 1:49 PM, Courtney Gorman Itsfun1@... [amelyachtowners] < amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
Porter both Joel and Bill told me to run my engine max 1 hr out of every to to keep it and the turbo happy I just wait until I want to hurry then kick ass Not fuel efficient but if everything else stays happy then........ Same with cars run them hard sometimes or they have issues Cheers Courtney sv Trippin 54 #101 Grenada
Hi Ryan, TAMD22 with fixed prop, at survey with fresh bottom and clean prop we maxed out at 2700rpm and 7-8 knots. 19 no later waiting for haul out and fresh paint we are maxing out around 2400 rpm and 6.5 kts. Prop had some groth that a diver scraped a few months ago...probably not the cleanest prop at the moment.
John SV Annie about to run south from Beryl....
Hi all,
I've dug through the forum history on the topic of the "correct" RPM range for the Super Maramu, and I haven't quite found what I want. What I have learned is there probably is no single, correct answer -- it depends on the engine and the prop. But what I really want to know is not what RPM I should be seeing at wide open throttle, but what RPM I should be cruising at? By this I mean the RPM you would use if you needed to motor for a long period of time. If the max RPM is different for everyone, it stands to reason that cruising RPM should also be different for everyone. Is there some way of calculating this RPM from the max? I've heard a rule of thumb of 80% of max RPM, but given that some of our engines are "over-propped" by design, I don't know if it applies, or even if it's a good rule in the first place. Should we rev to whatever is necessary to go a certain speed? Is there any harm in operating the engine close to/at wide open throttle for extended periods of time?
For the record, I have a Volvo TMD22 (B?)... I typically cruise at around 2400rpm, which yields a boat speed of about 6.5kts. I have a fixed three-blade prop (probably the original spare). I think the boat went faster at this RPM last year when I first bought her, but that could be me misremembering the RPM, or the tachometer going out of calibration, or the fact that I badly need a bottom job (though I had it scraped only a couple weeks ago). I do not know my max RPM; my engine needs a new timing belt and I don't think it's prudent to stress it until that is replaced. The fastest I've gone is about 2600 and I'm sure it can go higher. I saw around 7.2kts STW at that speed.
Thanks, Ryan and Kelly SM 233 Iteration Boston, MA, USA
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine cruising RPM
Porter McRoberts
Thanks Mark. If temp is the final data point, we cruise at about 79-80. What should be the goal? Thanks again!
On Jul 7, 2018, at 11:13 AM, 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] < amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
Porter,
It really doesn’t
matter how you do it but you need to create internal engine heat to clean out
the engine. This is done with a load on the engine. If in neutral, it will take
longer to create a load and heat. In gear while underway will heat up the
engine faster.
This is true
for all diesel engines.
Where you run
the RPM depends on the engine. Typically, 80% of max power will heat up the
engine nicely without too much strain. This is also good for the turbocharger,
if fitted with one.
How long? At
least every couple of hours while underway, if not a little more frequently.. We
run ours up every hour for about five minutes. This works for us.
Keep in mind,
this is not just the ship’s engine but also true for the genset. Running a
genset without load will cause carbon buildup. Keep the genset loaded when
charging batteries etc. We find it best to run a couple of AC units or do a load
of laundry etc. The battery charger only puts load on the genset at the beginning
of the charge cycle.
Hope this
helps.
With best
regards,
Mark
Skipper
Sailing Vessel
- Cream Puff - SM2K - #275
Currently
cruising - Curacao
www.creampuff.us
Ok. Bullshit aside.
I do have a few real questions, that I’ve had for a
while.
It’s the same for all diesels. Yes?
Is “racing” out of gear best? I would think load would
be required to increase fuel consumption and thus heat. Fuel burn>>heat
dissipation 2/2 raw water flow.
Forget the rpm. Where is the throttle? 100% down? 80%?
Many thanks, as always to this great group.
Bob,
Wow! Sorry. I didn’t realize I had to be
so freaking specific. Seriously! The essence of the post I made is 100%
correct. I didn’t intend to make a verbatim quote of the manual. If I
had, I would have used quotation marks. I stated this is OUTLINED in the
manual. I did not say this is a DIRECT QUOTE from the manual. Geeez! And,
please note I did say 4JH4 manual, not 4JH3 as you are quoting.
But if you want specific details of the
JH4 Operation Manual, publication number OAJH4-G00102, page 78. I quote, “Periodically
operate the engine near maximum speed while underway. This will generate higher
exhaust temperatures, which help clean out hard carbon deposits, maintain
engine performance and prolong the life of the engine”
This is below the section you quote
about running it in idle and speaks specifically about running the engine while
underway.
Regardless of whether this is done in
neutral or in gear while underway, the purpose of the procedure is to raise the
internal temperature of the engine periodically to remove carbon build up.
Carbon build up will kill a diesel engine.
I’m feelin’ a little crabby today. Can
you tell?
With best regards,
Mark
Skipper
Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275
Currently cruising - Curacao
www.creampuff.us
Hi Mark,
Regarding
"Running a lower RPMs without load will shorten the life of the engine
unless it is pushed up at least once per hour for about 5 minutes. This is
outlinede in the Yanmar operation manual."
This
is not to challenge the veracity of your statement but I cannot find that in my
Yanmar manual. Maybe you have a different manual and it would be helpful
(really) to have you quote what it says.
What
my 4JH3-HTE Operation Manual says (on page 30 section 4.6) is:
"When
operating the engine at low speed ffor long periods of time, race the engine
once every 2 hours"..."Racing the Engine, Morse Remote Control Handle
Pull out the handle lever...and shift the engine speed from high to low several
times...Racing the engine removes carbon built up in the compustion chamber
around the fuel injection valve. Neglecting to race tthe engine will
cause the exhaust to turn black and lower the efficiency of the engine".
In
other words it says to gun the engine several times while it is in neutral.
Like
others, we vary my speed between 1600 and 2200 for cruising and can cruise up
to 2400 rpm. We also run it at say 2800 for 5 minutes or so
periodically. However, I cannot find where Yanmar recommends this.
There are postings in this group (not yours) that say to run it full out for 5
minutes, even full out fo 30 minutes but I don't think that is advisable. Seems
that vibration is higher and it might be hard on the transmission and c drive
as well. Like most of us we vary the speed and run it harder at times but
we also do the "Racing" procedure that is in our manual.
Bob
and Suzanne, KAIMI #429
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Onan Water Pump
Mark Erdos
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
From: amelyachtowners@...
[mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, July 7, 2018 2:41 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Onan Water Pump
There was some discussion in 2015 about adding a strainer to the Onan raw
water hose going before the heat exchanger. I'm supposing several people
might have done that and I was wondering if sometone could post a photo of the
installation and your opinion on the operation.
Here is a sample of what I thought was being installed
(perhaps a different manufacturer):
file:///C:/Users/Duane/Downloads/Y%20Strainers%20-%20Filtration%20-%20Grainger%20Industrial%20Supply.pdf
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Onan Water Pump
The Onan 4 cylinder and the Onan 3 cylinder Kubota take the same water pump (Onan 132-0459 132−0358) (Sherwood G-702)...probably year 1995 to 2015...maybe more years.
Best,
Any opinions and conclusions expressed in this message are solely those of the author and should not be construed as representing the opinion of an expert. Manufacturers' and Expert's precautions must be taken when dealing with mechanical and/or electrical systems to ensure that you are NOT harmed, and/or the device and/or system is NOT ruined. If in doubt, do not touch any referred to mechanical and/or electrical device or system.
Mark,
I found the G702 on Amazon and would like to order one as a spare.
However, I need to be sure that pump is the right one for my MDKAW model from 2005. Do all ONAN that we use on our AMELS have the same pump? Where can i ask/research to be sure in case there are different Sherwood pumps for our ONANS available?
Thans, Alex SY NO STRESS AMEL54 #15
Duane, Actually, you're right - it is easy-peasy and you definitely don't need to go to the expense of a shop rebuilt. I agree with Mark that having two pumps works great - you can rebuild one at your leisure after popping the new one on. I do this with both my genset and my main engine water pumps - have rebuilt them both many times over the years. In lieu of a press you can just carefully tap out the shaft using a socket from your socket wrench set as a "pusher". On reassembly you may want to put parts in the freezer and/or hot water to make them go together more easily. Sourcing parts is easy. Have fun with it! Cheers, Craig Briggs ---In amelyachtowners@...
om, wrote : Bill R.,
Thank for your post. I actually had a rebuild kit on board (memory is an occasional thing for me these days it seems) and though easi-peasi, just rebuild the pump! But it will take a shop to get this one apart.
I agree with you, another pump is the way to go.
Duane
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] New file uploaded to amelyachtowners
Jean-Pierre's MacBook Air <jgermain@...>
I have this Y installed plus a one way check. Valve with spring ball to keep the water trapped upon genes shutdown.
Adds a lot to peace of mind and definitely adds 50 hours to the “now junk” time.
Jean-Pierre Germain
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine cruising RPM
Courtney Gorman
Porter both Joel and Bill told me to run my engine max 1 hr out of every to to keep it and the turbo happy I just wait until I want to hurry then kick ass Not fuel efficient but if everything else stays happy then........ Same with cars run them hard sometimes or they have issues Cheers Courtney sv Trippin 54 #101
On Jul 7, 2018, at 11:36 AM, John Clark john.biohead@... [amelyachtowners] < amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
Hi Ryan, TAMD22 with fixed prop, at survey with fresh bottom and clean prop we maxed out at 2700rpm and 7-8 knots. 19 no later waiting for haul out and fresh paint we are maxing out around 2400 rpm and 6.5 kts. Prop had some groth that a diver scraped a few months ago...probably not the cleanest prop at the moment.
John SV Annie about to run south from Beryl....
Hi all,
I've dug through the forum history on the topic of the "correct" RPM range for the Super Maramu, and I haven't quite found what I want. What I have learned is there probably is no single, correct answer -- it depends on the engine and the prop. But what I really want to know is not what RPM I should be seeing at wide open throttle, but what RPM I should be cruising at? By this I mean the RPM you would use if you needed to motor for a long period of time. If the max RPM is different for everyone, it stands to reason that cruising RPM should also be different for everyone. Is there some way of calculating this RPM from the max? I've heard a rule of thumb of 80% of max RPM, but given that some of our engines are "over-propped" by design, I don't know if it applies, or even if it's a good rule in the first place. Should we rev to whatever is necessary to go a certain speed? Is there any harm in operating the engine close to/at wide open throttle for extended periods of time?
For the record, I have a Volvo TMD22 (B?)... I typically cruise at around 2400rpm, which yields a boat speed of about 6.5kts. I have a fixed three-blade prop (probably the original spare). I think the boat went faster at this RPM last year when I first bought her, but that could be me misremembering the RPM, or the tachometer going out of calibration, or the fact that I badly need a bottom job (though I had it scraped only a couple weeks ago). I do not know my max RPM; my engine needs a new timing belt and I don't think it's prudent to stress it until that is replaced. The fastest I've gone is about 2600 and I'm sure it can go higher. I saw around 7.2kts STW at that speed.
Thanks, Ryan and Kelly SM 233 Iteration Boston, MA, USA
|
|
|
There was some discussion in 2015 about adding a strainer to the Onan raw water hose going before the heat exchanger. I'm supposing several people might have done that and I was wondering if sometone could post a photo of the installation and your opinion on the operation.
Here is a sample of what I thought was being installed (perhaps a different manufacturer):
file:///C:/Users/Duane/Downloads/Y%20Strainers%20-%20Filtration%20-%20Grainger%20Industrial%20Supply.pdf
Thanks, Duane Wanderer, SM#477
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New file uploaded to amelyachtowners
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