Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Elongated hole on conical coupling

James Alton
 

Craig,

   I agree with your post.  I have also found that it is not uncommon to find loose coupling bolts and agree this is something to check on a regular basis.  I have had good results using Nylocs in addition to a good lock washer for coupling bolts.  For applications where the longer nylocs are a problem,  I use the red Loctite in addition to a good (new and sharp) lock washer.  If I encounter any difficulty removing the bolts due to the Loctite, the application of heat via a hot air paint stripper gun works wonders.

Best,

James
SV Sueño
Maramu #220

On Aug 1, 2018, at 2:28 PM, sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


I'd add  a fifth cause to Bill's excellent list, namely, the nuts having come loose. I've seen that on three boats, one with a nut actually missing. It's a good routine check to make and easily done.
Craig, SN68

---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

I would have no problem drilling one set of new holes in the flange.  If that bothers you at all, machining a new flange would be an easy job for any machine shop and would not be very expensive.

Based on the damage I see, it looks like the holes in the flange were quite a bit too big for the bolts used.  When this is done, two things happen. The metal of the flange is "point loaded" by the bolt, and the two flanges rotate relative to each other slightly when the transmission is shifted.  This result s in an impact of the bolt against the flange, which pushes metal aside every time the transmission is shifted, resulting in exactly the kind of damage you see.  The more the hole is enlarged, the further the bolt moves when shifting and the harder the impact. You can see where this story goes...

Larger holes than appropriate happen for one of four reasons.  The manufacturer wasn't confident of alignment, so gave some extra "wiggle room." Or, there was a mismatch of specifications between two different manufacturers. Or, the flange was sourced from third party stock parts without attention to such niggling details.  Or, a bolt was used without paying attention to the proper size. I vote for option three!

You should have a what a machinist calls a "clearance fit" on the bolts and holes. This minimizes the relative rotation of the the flanges during shifting, and spreads the load of the bo lt across as large an arc as possible. 

If at all feasible, the guy doing the drilling should have the mating flange as well so he can be absolutely sure of alignment. These need to be very carefully aligned. In the absence of a  documented specification (check the transmission manual...), I'd look for a relative runout of no more than 0.002" 

Also, it is best (although not always easily arranged!) if the bolts used are unthreaded where they go through the flange to spread the load across as wide an area of metal as possible.  

Good luck!

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Elongated hole on conical coupling

hanspeter baettig
 

Hi Bill Kinney
Intersting feedback about your tecnical knowhow, but nowbody answere his question. Why this e longated hole can happen ?
regards
Hanspeter
Tamango 2
on the way to Capo Verde
SM16


Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 01.08.2018 um 18:06 schrieb greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

I would have no problem drilling one set of new holes in the flange.  If that bothers you at all, machining a new flange would be an easy job for any machine shop and would not be very expensive.


Based on the damage I see, it looks like the holes in the flange were quite a bit too big for the bolts used.  When this is done, two things happen. The metal of the flange is "point loaded" by the bolt, and the two flanges rotate relative to each other slightly when the transmission is shifted.  This results in an impact of the bolt against the flange, which pushes metal aside every time the transmission is shifted, resulting in exactly the kind of damage you see.  The more the hole is enlarged, the further the bolt moves when shifting and the harder the impact. You can see where this story goes...

Larger holes than appropriate happen for one of four reasons.  The manufacturer wasn't confident of ali gnment, so gave some extra "wiggle room." Or, there was a mismatch of specifications between two different manufacturers. Or, the flange was sourced from third party stock parts without attention to such niggling details.  Or, a bolt was used without paying attention to the proper size. I vote for option three!

You should have a what a machinist calls a "clearance fit" on the bolts and holes. This minimizes the relative rotation of the the flanges during shifting, and spreads the load of the bolt across as large an arc as possible. 

If at all feasible, the guy doing the drilling should have the mating flange as well so he can be absolutely sure of alignment. These need to be very carefully aligned. In the absence of a  documented specification (check the transmission manual...), I'd look for a relative runout of no more than 0.002" 

Also, it is best (although no t always easily arranged!) if the bolts used are unthreaded where they go through the flange to spread the load across as wide an area of metal as possible.  

Good luck!

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA


Steering Failure on “Aloha” SM72

Stephen Davis
 

I want to thank everyone who helped diagnose our steering problems, and let you all know the final outcome. After our complete steering failure from Panama to Hawaii due to broken teeth in both steering racks, we assumed that replacement of both racks and pinion/steering shaft would resolve the problem, but that proved not to be the case. We have now replaced both steering cables, and our steering perfect.

When we removed the steering cables from the boat and racks, we found that one cable worked smoothly by hand, and the other was nearly impossible to move. We inspected the bad cable externally, and found no sign of any damage. When I get time, I’ll attempt to cut the sheath off the cable, and determine what actually failed. Once the new cables were installed in the boat, the steering was smoother than it has ever been, and we have the required 1.5 turns in each direction.

When we first replaced the racks and pinion, I couldn’t imagine we had a problem with the cables, as they look incredibly robust. We learned a lesson on this one, and if anyone suspects a problem with their steering, I’d recommend replacement of all components. The cables and racks are made by Ultraflex of Italy, and can be supplied by Amel for about $1200 plus shipping. That price also includes a new pinion. Our pinion was in serviceable condition, but we did not want to mate the
new racks with a slightly worn pinion. If you have an older hull number like ours, you will probably find the original Ultraflex cables are M41 23 FT, and the new cables supplied will be M61 25FT. They appear to be the same cables except the new ones are 2’ longer and have a different style adjustment nut near the quadrant. I suspect sometime not to long after hull 72, Amel decided that a 2’ longer cable made for a slightly smoother cable run. Also, the end pieces that screw onto the cables and then insert into the racks were originally of a plastic material. At some point in production, Amel started manufacturing a metal end piece, and changing them out in the racks supplied by Ultraflex. We were able to buy the end pieces from Amel for about $50 each, and replace the ones provided with our new racks. If you have an older SM with the plastic end pieces, it would not be a bad idea to change them.

We could not find a lot of good information on the forum regarding how to take the steering apart. The first time we changed the racks and pinion was a bit of a learning curve. By the third time we completely removed the steering from the boat to change the cables, we were fairly good at it. It is not a bad job once you know what you are doing, and we could now easily remove the entire steering system from the boat and reinstall in a day. Removing the cables requires at least 2 people. I’ll try and write something up and post it when I have time. Anyone with a fairly old hull number that has seen a lot of sea miles should consider replacing their steering. We had convinced ourselves the steering would last forever, but learned the hard way, that is not the case. My other recommendation is while on a nice day sail, rig your emergency steering, and see how it works. You will find the boat actually fun to steer with the tiller, and it would be nice to know you have all the parts available, and know how to put it together.

On another note, Liz and I are the OCC Port Officers for Hawaii, and for anyone considering sailing here, please contact us, and we can provide you some useful information. Thanks again for the help in diagnosing our problem, and now we are going sailing.

Best Regards,

Steve and Liz Davis
Aloha SM 72
Ko Olina, Hawaii


Re: Elongated hole on conical coupling

Craig Briggs
 


I'd add  a fifth cause to Bill's excellent list, namely, the nuts having come loose. I've seen that on three boats, one with a nut actually missing. It's a good routine check to make and easily done.
Craig, SN68

---In amelyachtowners@..., <greatketch@...> wrote :

I would have no problem drilling one set of new holes in the flange.  If that bothers you at all, machining a new flange would be an easy job for any machine shop and would not be very expensive.

Based on the damage I see, it looks like the holes in the flange were quite a bit too big for the bolts used.  When this is done, two things happen. The metal of the flange is "point loaded" by the bolt, and the two flanges rotate relative to each other slightly when the transmission is shifted.  This results in an impact of the bolt against the flange, which pushes metal aside every time the transmission is shifted, resulting in exactly the kind of damage you see.  The more the hole is enlarged, the further the bolt moves when shifting and the harder the impact. You can see where this story goes...

Larger holes than appropriate happen for one of four reasons.  The manufacturer wasn't confident of alignment, so gave some extra "wiggle room." Or, there was a mismatch of specifications between two different manufacturers. Or, the flange was sourced from third party stock parts without attention to such niggling details.  Or, a bolt was used without paying attention to the proper size. I vote for option three!

You should have a what a machinist calls a "clearance fit" on the bolts and holes. This minimizes the relative rotation of the the flanges during shifting, and spreads the load of the bolt across as large an arc as possible. 

If at all feasible, the guy doing the drilling should have the mating flange as well so he can be absolutely sure of alignment. These need to be very carefully aligned. In the absence of a  documented specification (check the transmission manual...), I'd look for a relative runout of no more than 0.002" 

Also, it is best (although not always easily arranged!) if the bolts used are unthreaded where they go through the flange to spread the load across as wide an area of metal as possible.  

Good luck!

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA


Re: Elongated hole on conical coupling

greatketch@...
 

I would have no problem drilling one set of new holes in the flange.  If that bothers you at all, machining a new flange would be an easy job for any machine shop and would not be very expensive.

Based on the damage I see, it looks like the holes in the flange were quite a bit too big for the bolts used.  When this is done, two things happen. The metal of the flange is "point loaded" by the bolt, and the two flanges rotate relative to each other slightly when the transmission is shifted.  This results in an impact of the bolt against the flange, which pushes metal aside every time the transmission is shifted, resulting in exactly the kind of damage you see.  The more the hole is enlarged, the further the bolt moves when shifting and the harder the impact. You can see where this story goes...

Larger holes than appropriate happen for one of four reasons.  The manufacturer wasn't confident of alignment, so gave some extra "wiggle room." Or, there was a mismatch of specifications between two different manufacturers. Or, the flange was sourced from third party stock parts without attention to such niggling details.  Or, a bolt was used without paying attention to the proper size. I vote for option three!

You should have a what a machinist calls a "clearance fit" on the bolts and holes. This minimizes the relative rotation of the the flanges during shifting, and spreads the load of the bolt across as large an arc as possible. 

If at all feasible, the guy doing the drilling should have the mating flange as well so he can be absolutely sure of alignment. These need to be very carefully aligned. In the absence of a  documented specification (check the transmission manual...), I'd look for a relative runout of no more than 0.002" 

Also, it is best (although not always easily arranged!) if the bolts used are unthreaded where they go through the flange to spread the load across as wide an area of metal as possible.  

Good luck!

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Plastimo water outlet Amel 54

Wolfgang Weber
 

Dear Alex and Thomas,
Thank you very much. I will buy a new part as the German Plastimo had no Information about service of this outlet. After changing I will try to open the old one and let you know.Back on boat end of August.
Wolfgang Weber SY Elise Amel 54#162



Re: The mistery slick

greatketch@...
 


Great to hear that the problem was one of the less expensive possibilities!

A good lesson to remember in diagnosis:  If there is oil in the exhaust it MIGHT be coming from oil or fuel in the engine exhaust, but it also could be coming from oil leaking into the raw cooling water.

Using my best 20/20 hindsight:  Collect a sample of the raw water coming out of the anti-syphon vent.  This is water that has gone through all of the engine cooling circuit, but not yet mixed with exhaust gases.  The presence (or absence!) of oil there can be an important clue in tracking down the source of the problem.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA

---In amelyachtowners@..., <svperegrinus@...> wrote :

I would like to thank all who responded, but in particular Jeffrey Kaus and Bill Kinney and Trevor Lusty: you were in the right track.  Failed oil cooler.

However, the transmission oil cooler by www.ejbowman.co.uk came out OK....

... the problem was the Yanmar 100 HP turbo's oil cooler.  Had to get a new one for $1606 + VAT (parts only).

To test both oil coolers, they warm them up to 75°C or so and then inject compressed air.  Then they look for air bubbles.

For those with oil in the water but no smoke/engine performance issues, check this first.

Regards,

Peregrinus
SM2K Nr. 350 (2002)


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Plastimo water outlet Amel 54

Alex Ramseyer <alexramseyer@...>
 

Dear Thomas, Wolfgang,
I just had a look and it is the elbow unit that you want to order.
Best regards,
Alex Ramseyer 
Amel54, NO STRESS

Am Di., Juli 31, 2018 at 9:44 schrieb 'S/V Garulfo' svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners]
:
 

Hi Wolfgang,

Unfortunately I can’t answer your question as we are not in the boat, but I’m interested in the answer as ours is dripping too!

So maybe another 54 owner can have a quick look inside the cockpit locker to answer your question?

Incidentally we are in Hyères, but you say only your boat is there? We’ll go to the marina to say hi to the Amel bunch, let us know if you need a check on Elyse! 

Thomas
away from 
GARULFO 
A54-122
Curacao



On Fri, 27 Jul 2018 at 18:10, webercardio webercardio@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hello to the group, 
My plastimo wateroutlet in the Cockpit is dripping. Did anyone service this outlet?
I am not on the boat, so I have to know for replacement if it is Plastimo water outlet with straight (62029) or elbow (62030) terminals. 
Thank you very much Wolfgang Weber SY Elise Amel 54 #162 Hyeres







Re: Finally a real forum member

Arno Luijten
 

Hi All,

We have now taken our new pride to Curacao, she is lying safely at the dock of Curacao Marine in good company of another 54 and a Sharky.
Our "maidenvoyage" went very well, it took us 72 hours to get from Martinique to Curacao. Now a long list of things to do awaits us to bring Luna back to her former glory. But I cannot wait to get started.
So I will be on at the boat quite frequently, anyone that want to pay us a visit there is more then welcome.

Regards,

Arno


Re: Elongated hole on conical coupling

svperegrinus@yahoo.com
 

I had included a picture but it is nowhere to be seen, so I attach it again. 


Re: The mistery slick

svperegrinus@yahoo.com
 

I would like to thank all who responded, but in particular Jeffrey Kaus and Bill Kinney and Trevor Lusty: you were in the right track.  Failed oil cooler.

However, the transmission oil cooler by www.ejbowman.co.uk came out OK....

... the problem was the Yanmar 100 HP turbo's oil cooler.  Had to get a new one for $1606 + VAT (parts only).

To test both oil coolers, they warm them up to 75°C or so and then inject compressed air.  Then they look for air bubbles.

For those with oil in the water but no smoke/engine performance issues, check this first.

Regards,

Peregrinus
SM2K Nr. 350 (2002)


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Transmission problem, [1 Attachment]

Ann-Sofie Svanberg <kanalmamman@...>
 

Have you check so you don't have anything in the propeller?

/Ann-Sofie
S/Y Lady Annila, SM232

Skickat från min iPad

30 juli 2018 kl. 20:07 skrev Anna Eriksson anna@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

There is something wrong in the transmissionbox. Se photo.
And the motor is vibrating more than before it happened. I am now driving on 1800... How sirious is this???
From my wifes telefon
Arthur. Sundqvist
Vista. SM 435








Elongated hole on conical coupling

svperegrinus@yahoo.com
 

While re-aligning engine to C-Drive, one hole was found elongated. As the part is not available, the Yanmar dealer proposes drilling new holes, which sounds reasonable, but it'd be nice to know if the consensus is that the part will remain strong enough/will continue to have enough metal to absorb whatever heat it is designed to absorb.


Also, what caused this? Thanks in advance,


Peregrinus
SM2K N. 350 (2002)


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Plastimo water outlet Amel 54

Sv Garulfo
 

Hi Wolfgang,

Unfortunately I can’t answer your question as we are not in the boat, but I’m interested in the answer as ours is dripping too!

So maybe another 54 owner can have a quick look inside the cockpit locker to answer your question?

Incidentally we are in Hyères, but you say only your boat is there? We’ll go to the marina to say hi to the Amel bunch, let us know if you need a check on Elyse! 

Thomas
away from 
GARULFO 
A54-122
Curacao



On Fri, 27 Jul 2018 at 18:10, webercardio webercardio@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hello to the group, 
My plastimo wateroutlet in the Cockpit is dripping. Did anyone service this outlet?
I am not on the boat, so I have to know for replacement if it is Plastimo water outlet with straight (62029) or elbow (62030) terminals. 
Thank you very much Wolfgang Weber SY Elise Amel 54 #162 Hyeres







Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Safety deposit box in aft head of Super maramu

Alan Leslie
 

I would like to know how to take the safe out completely...i don't need it.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Max Prop purchase

Patrick McAneny
 

I have decided to buy a Max Prop and I remember someone asking me to let them know in hopes of perhaps getting a better price. PYI  price for a 22" prop is $3750. Fred at PYI suggested that I contact Fawcett in Annapolis their dealer for a better price . Fawcett discounted it to $3400. I am ready to order it very soon , if anyone is interest in buying a Max prop, let me know and I will ask for a better price , but would not expect too much.

Thanks,

Pat


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Transmission problem, [1 Attachment]

Bob Grey
 

Arthur, check your engine mounts, cdrive mounts and engine bed mounts as if the nuts are loose, you get bad vibration, 
note it’s the nut under the beam that comes loose not the nylon nut you see. I also had an engine bed frame stud snap once which caused vibration.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Tuesday, July 31, 2018, 05:02, Anna Eriksson anna@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 
[Attachment(s) from Anna Eriksson included below]

There is something wrong in the transmissionbox. Se photo.
And the motor is vibrating more than before it happened. I am now driving on 1800... How sirious is this???
From my wifes telefon
Arthur. Sundqvist
Vista. SM 435








Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Transmission problem, [1 Attachment]

 

Are the brake pads on the shaft brake touching the disk?


Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

On Mon, Jul 30, 2018, 14:07 Anna Eriksson anna@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
[Attachment(s) from Anna Eriksson included below]

There is something wrong in the transmissionbox. Se photo.
And the motor is vibrating more than before it happened. I am now driving on 1800... How sirious is this???
From my wifes telefon
Arthur. Sundqvist
Vista. SM 435








Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] halyard engine lift for engine removal and replacement

 

Thanks, I appreciate it. 


Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

On Mon, Jul 30, 2018, 10:54 sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Bill,

Katherine and I have removed our engine (and generator) many times (like 6 or 8) with the boat's rigging very safely and without incident. Takes a few hours but is very straightforward. 

We start by removing the engine room hatch cover, then disconnect all engine connections, shaft coupling and engine mounts. About 3 hours to do this.

Next we put shackles on the engine's lifting tabs and tie a short stout line between them. This become a lifting "sling" for the halyards and control lines we'll use and those can be slid along the sling to balance the engine. Once the lifting halyard is tensioned it doesn't slip.

Now we rig lifting line #1 by removing the main sheet from it's tang on the mizzen and running another line from the engine sling, up to the tang, over to the genoa sheet turning block and then to the genoa winch. (We actually use the tail end of the genoa sheet for this - plenty strong.)

Now we rig lifting line #2 using the balooner halyard. Run it aft by putting it in front of the topping lift winch, or just use a snatch block made fast anywhere in front of the mast. Then create a "fair" lead to the engine by using another snatch block on the foc d'artimon halyard. You can also supplement that with a snatch block from the main boom. And, for real "belts and suspenders" we sometimes add the engine lifting halyard.

Next we rig an athwartships control line from the sling to the other genoa winch. 

Now you just orchestrate a coordinated lift - it helps to have a third person if available. Lifting lines #1 and #2 give you precise fore and aft control and the athwartships line controls right and left. You can also easily nudge the engine a bit as it comes up.  As it comes up we stop frequently and snug up the extra halyard so we've always got redundancy.

This is simply how we usually do it - as you get into it you may well need to create variations that may work better for you - there's no strict formula.  Just keep at least two lines carrying the weight of the engine. 

We usually just lower the engine onto a cockpit seat to do our repair work, but when we do remove it from the boat we like to use the main halyard over the boom end, with another safety.  That's a pain because you have to lower the sail, and you can use the balooner cleverly snatched forward to let it go aft without chafing the mast.

Enjoy - this ranks right up there with fun Amel projects and your dockmates will be green with envy ... or call the mental health professionals to intercede.

Cheers,
Craig and Katherine Briggs, SN68, Sangaris


---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :



Well i read the horror story of a SM owner who almost sunk his boat while lifting his engine with a stretchy line to replace the silent blocks. Was only saved by the quick reaction of the people of the marina he was in. 

In French, but worth a read, if only for the entertainment as it’s quite well written

See 1er Janvier in

Enjoy,

Thomas, 
away from
GARULFO
A54-122
Curaçao 



On Mon, 30 Jul 2018 at 01:37, Bill Rouse brouse@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

I have an Amel School Client that I would like to get some "firsthand" information for.

He is going to be repowering his 54. He is interested in discussing all of the necessary rigging that was utilized if you removed your engine with a halyard.

I apologize for being in the middle of this discussion, but my client is going to be out of reach for about two weeks.

If you have firsthand knowledge of utilizing a halyard to remove an engine, I would like to hear from you. If you prefer direct email, bill"at"amelschool.com

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970

Any opinions and conclusions expressed in this message are solely those of the author and should not be construed as representing the opinion of an expert. Manufacturers' and Expert's precautions must be taken when dealing with mechanical and/or electrical systems to ensure that you are NOT harmed, and/or the device and/or system is NOT ruined. If in doubt, do not touch any referred to mechanical and/or electrical device or system.


Transmission problem,

Anna Eriksson
 

There is something wrong in the transmissionbox. Se photo.
And the motor is vibrating more than before it happened. I am now driving on 1800... How sirious is this???
From my wifes telefon
Arthur. Sundqvist
Vista. SM 435