Date   

SM Running Rigging

karkauai
 

I am replacing my running rigging prior to S Pacific cruise.  Looking at the files section, I have a couple questions:

What is the Tack Rope (10mm Kevlar, 11.5 meters)???

What line do you use for manually furling the genoa?  Diameter and length???  Is it led through blocks at the toe rail to the small cockpit winches?  It must be pretty long as it has to go from the cockpit to the furler and back, and have enough more to furl the sail.

Thanks in advance.
Kent
SM 243
Kristy



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: re caulking of stanchion base

James Alton
 

Bill Kinney,

   I was originally thinking of using a non acid based silicone caulking for  bedding my stanchions but I think that you may have hit on the perfect solution using the Butyl tape to provide the required sealing. The caulking seal would have to rely on a good bond whereas the butyl should produce a good seal simply from compression and chamfering the top of the hole will increase the reliability of a compression seal.   While the butyl might not attach well to the fibreglass if some Tef-Gel is present, it will be well adhered to the inside of the stanchion base so should not try to crawl out.    You can also come back and gently tighten the bolts at a later time with Butyl which would destroy the bond and seal of a caulk.  The Butyl should reseal to the bolt in response the increased compression.  Finally, since these bolts really should be replaced and resealed as a part of a maintenance schedule the butyl is going to be easier to clean up.   I really really like your plan and will be packing some Butyl into my luggage!

   Do the holes tapped into the embedded steel bottom or pass completely through the steel?  I am thinking that if they pass thru that we can afford to be more generous with the Tef-gel since it will not be forced out of the hole to the surface.  If the holes bottom, your idea of using a bolt to apply the Tef Gel to the female threads sounds like an excellent way of applying the optimal amount of product.

   I also sometimes chamfer holes to provide a clean surface for caulking to bond to and I do think that it improves the seal.  I am sure that you will be careful to not cut away too much material but I have seen on a number of boats where the chamfering has extended pretty deep into fibreglass which can be a bad thing structurally since the shear strength is going to be reduced.  

Best,

James 
Maramu #220 

On Aug 6, 2018, at 7:00 PM, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

James,


The bolts on Harmonie are Flat head machine screws, M8-1.25 x 30mm  I see no evidence that they had ever been removed since the boat was built in 1996.

We are very much on the same page with thinking about the issues/concerns in getting those bolts sealed back up.  If you read Joel's notes he does mention adding sealant under the stanchion base in addition to the tef-gel on the threads.  Done properly, that should keep the water away from the steel.

I think the combination is much better than just putting a dab of silicon on the screws as was done on my boat.

Here is my approach:
 
Each bolt hole will have a chamfer cut into the surface of the fiberglass with a countersink bit.

The bolts will have a thin coat of tef-gel added to the bottom couple of threads.  I might just put some down in the bolt hole to minimize contact with the upper threads--for all the reasons you expressed. Another alternative is to apply tef-gel to a screw, insert it all the way in the hole to smear the tef-gel on the female threads, then remove it and use a clean screw for final assembly.

The bottom of the stanchion base will have a layer of butyl sealing tape applied, with a little more wrapped around the bolt at the very top of the threads.

Butyl tape "flows" amazingly well.  Even if the threads of the bolts have a bit of tef-gel on them, I am confident that the butyl flowing into the chamfer I made at the top of the hole will be good enough to keep water out.

This basic technique has worked well for me in the past in similar situations. 

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA



Re: re caulking of stanchion base

John Clark
 

Wow perfect timing ...I will say again.  

We are about to embark on this "maintenance" item.  Only lite rust on a few stanchion bases but I suspect they have not been addressed since 1990...

THX on the advice to use an impact wrench.  The previous owner was nice enough to leave an electric impact driver in the tool set!  

Joel, thanks for still being there!....or is it here?


                         Regards,  John

John Clark
SV Annie SM 37
Le Marin, Martinique


Re: Proud new owner of Amel SM50, first post

John Clark
 

Welcome aboard Charlie!


            This is the right place to ask one hundred questions....about Amels that is!   I am sitting on Annie, SM #37, I purchased her in December 2016 so I too am about a year and a half into her.   I bought her in Martinique and sailed her back to the States last summer and then got chased to North Carolina by those pesky hurricanes last year.  We sailed her down to the Florida Keys then back through the islands over the last 8 months and are now in Le Marin to do some Amel maintenance and eat excellent cheese and wine before heading west.  I still feel like I am getting to know the boat.


     Cloud Seven is not too much younger than Annie, they might have even met in La Rochelle.   Our close hull numbers likely means we will have similar bits of Amel evolution on our boats.  I am berthed next to "My Motu" SM #25, Scott, her owner is a nice fellow and like us bought his boat about a year ago.  He too could be a good source for info on our vintage hulls. 


I recommend also the Amel Owners Facebook group.  It is mostly the same people as the Forum, but it is a more "fun and games" with Amels type of site.  People do have tech conversations there as well and it is easier to post photos.   


To your questions (98 to go...)

Some others can probably give you better and more seasoned advice on the keel ballast but I can tell you two things: 

  1. The metal part of the keel should be encapsulated with a waterproof coating, like epoxy or glassed in.  If a previous owner stripped it off and then just primed and painted it, that could be the issue.

    

  2. I am sure you have heard of the Amel bonding system by now.  All metal parts that are in constant contact with sea water are electrically connected to the two anodes on the rudder.  Any break in the connection to the anodes will cause the affected parts to be not protected.  The metal keel ballast included.  The bonding connection to the keel is located at the bottom of the bilge sump in the engine room.  There should be a copper strap or copper bar that runs from a connection near the top of the bilge down to a keel bolt at the bottom of the sump.  You can find the top where there should be an accumulation of green/yellow wires.  The green/yellow wires are the Amel bonding system.    Also you can check under the aft berth to make sure the strap to the rudder post(and anodes) is intact.  


Aside:  The 12v and 24v DC electrical system is not grounded to the hull nor to the bonding system.  If someone in the past used a green/yellow wire as a ground, there could be some issues there as well.  In a bad case this can cause fast corrosion.  An Amel near us recently had a powered wifi antenna that somehow put 12v onto the standing rigging.  The boat was literally pouring rust from every place the rig touched the hull it looked horrid.  The owner said it happened over the course of just a few days. Once the wifi antenna was isolated the corrosion ceased….and clean up commenced. 


At survey in December 2016 I had zero rust on the keel ballast…. But that was a boat which was prepared for sale so it might have been cleaned up.  The boat has been in the water since that time.  We are about to haul out for C-Drive maintenance and fresh antifouling.  I will let you know what the keel looks like. 



                            Regards,  John


John Clark

SV Annie SM37

Le Marin, Martinique 


---In amelyachtowners@..., <charliekopp3@...> wrote :

Greetings to the group.

Nothing specific to report (although I do have about a hundred questions already). Just wanted to introduce myself to the group.

Last year, just before Halloween, I was lucky enough to fulfill a years-long dream and purchased Super Maramu #50. The vessel was already in Seattle, where I live, and already at my preferred marina as well.

I have sailed her about 20 times so far, and taken one 5-day trip up to the San Juan Islands.

I have noticed that it does, indeed, take a year to begin to understand the many systems. For example, I just noticed the excellent exhaust fan in the galley when I accidentally touched the controls while feeling for the light switch above and aft of the stove.

I've learned a lot already, fixed many things, discovered many more that need attention. My 2 biggest concerns currently are: Very rusty cast-iron ballast, and broken handle on fuel shutoff valve.

Anyway, hello to everyone. This is my first boat, quite possibly my last. I love the boat dearly, and I'm fairly obsessed with Monsieur Amel's story.

I'll be back, asking questions, weighing in on topics, and hopefully providing some assistance eventually.

- Charlie Kopp
-S/V Cloud Seven
-Amel SM #50 (1991)


Re: re caulking of stanchion base

greatketch@...
 

Paul,

I found them at https://www.grainger.com a great source for oddball bits and pieces at industrial--instead of marine--prices.

Bill Kinney
Sm160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA





Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: re caulking of stanchion base

greatketch@...
 

James,

The bolts on Harmonie are Flat head machine screws, M8-1.25 x 30mm  I see no evidence that they had ever been removed since the boat was built in 1996.

We are very much on the same page with thinking about the issues/concerns in getting those bolts sealed back up.  If you read Joel's notes he does mention adding sealant under the stanchion base in addition to the tef-gel on the threads.  Done properly, that should keep the water away from the steel.

I think the combination is much better than just putting a dab of silicon on the screws as was done on my boat.

Here is my approach:
 
Each bolt hole will have a chamfer cut into the surface of the fiberglass with a countersink bit.

The bolts will have a thin coat of tef-gel added to the bottom couple of threads.  I might just put some down in the bolt hole to minimize contact with the upper threads--for all the reasons you expressed. Another alternative is to apply tef-gel to a screw, insert it all the way in the hole to smear the tef-gel on the female threads, then remove it and use a clean screw for final assembly.

The bottom of the stanchion base will have a layer of butyl sealing tape applied, with a little more wrapped around the bolt at the very top of the threads.

Butyl tape "flows" amazingly well.  Even if the threads of the bolts have a bit of tef-gel on them, I am confident that the butyl flowing into the chamfer I made at the top of the hole will be good enough to keep water out.

This basic technique has worked well for me in the past in similar situations. 

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Original Autopilot Integration With New Chartplotter

James Alton
 


On Aug 5, 2018, at 6:54 PM, Bill Rouse brouse@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


I asked multiple circumnavigator, founder of the ARC and Odyssey, and  a very good friend, Jimmy Cornell, about autopilot failures. He said, that in his experience, about 10% of all autopilots will experience a critical component failure while crossing an ocean. In my comparatively limited experience, I saw about the same. I also saw far less than10% of boats crossing oceans have spares of all autopilot components. A failed rudder reference device will ruin a 3000 mile ocean crossing.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

On Sun, Aug 5, 2018, 12:19 greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
Bill Kinney,

   Thanks for your in depth and thoughtful response.  I think that you really hit the important points of my question.  

   It is clear that you consider your autopilot to be a critical component and I get it!  I really like your idea of keeping the one AP off of the network for the reasons you provided.  For myself, I would want to be sure that my depth sounders can function if a network failed.  I am still on the fence about the forward sonar but will be watching carefully to see if these devices improve over time.   You make a good point about in this day and age of handheld devices that the loss of the main chart plotter does not have to be considered a critical failure.

   I like the thought experiment that you use with your students and I can see that it is very useful.  If only the real world was that simple! (grin) In addition to how critical the “X” is to the functioning of a boat is the question of how much space should or can be dedicated to the required spares?  If space were unlimited, how nice it would be to have a complete spare engine for instance!  I wonder if  dedicating limited space to carrying more smaller components that covered multiple systems on average would allow us to keep our boats sailing longer than using that same space to fully cover a single but perhaps more critical item?  I don’t have the answer but the input from this forum and spending more time cruising on my boat will hopefully over time help me get the priorities sorted out.  

Best,

James Alton
SV Sueño
Maramu 220

Jams,

When it comes to spares and backups we are all informed by our experiences, prejudices and fears. It's hard to approach with total logic because we really don't have much reliable data about failure rates and causes.

One of the downsides to the NMEA2000 network is that it is all "of one piece." Although it is designed to be robust and fault tolerant, I have seen one corroded connector bring down a big piece of a boat's network.  It's probably a good idea to have a couple spare connectors, and a spare terminating resistor for a NMEA2000 network just in cast you need to bypass part of the circuit.

I do not have any bad experiences with rudder angle sensors, but all of the ones I have used were "dumb" ones hard wired to the course computer. They are simple circuits, and as long as they are kept dry, with good connections, they SHOULD work. On the other hand, without a working sensor, the AP is not usable...

Adding the complexity to have the rudder angle sensor connect through the network makes things...more complicated.  Our two independent AP computers have separate rudder angle sensors so I haven't really felt the need to think hard about backups for that part.  I do carry a complete, drop-in spare, linear drive.  So we have three drives, two computers, two rudder sensors, and two fluxgate compasses. Short of getting struck by lightening, we should be in good shape.

The only part of the system that we have deliberately kept independent of the NMEA2000 network is the backup AP.  If the network totally died, we would still have the ability to steer to a compass course with the older course computer.

We travel with enough hand held devices that include GPS receivers, and paper charts that even serious network problems would be an very annoying inconvenience, not a disaster.

I know some people love their forward scanning sonars, and for good reasons.  If I spent a lot of time cruising in rocky areas like New England I'd likely be more interested. For us, all of our "ground contact events" have been in gradual shoaling areas where we were well aware of the depth. When the forward scanning units get to the point they can help me find a 2.05 meter channel surrounded by 1.95 meter shoals I'll be all in!  

Theoretically, the forward scanning units would allow us to move through coral head infested waters without needing to be as attentive to time of day and visibility, but I am not ready to turn over that task to electronics. If we are doing the eyeball navigation thing anyway, the added value of the electronic version doesn't push it high enough on my wish list.  Don't get me wrong, these things are on my wish list, they just haven't quite gotten to the top of the priority list in the competition for available resources!

When my sailing students asked me some version of the question, "Do I need "X" on my boat to go cruising?" I asked them to do a thought experiment.  Imagine you are at anchor in the lagoon of an isolated tropical atoll.  Device "X" has just irreparably failed.  Can you get home?  If the answer is "Yes" then device "X" is a luxury.  One you might very much want to have, but in the harshest of analyses--a luxury.  If the answer is "No" and you would be stuck in this remote location until device "X" is working again, then you need two of them! 

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA

---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

Bill,

   I like your concept of having some stand alone instruments and would like to learn of a good way to have some of the benefits of the network without being reliant too on it .  I will be buying most everything new for my boat so have lots of options so long as I don’t blow the budget. (grin)   If you have any thoughts or suggestions on achieving a good balance between the standalone and networked items please share.    I am using a Zeus 3-9 as my plotter and was thinking of adding the B&G 4G radar.  My instrumentation is the original B&G Analog style which mostly still work.  The wind was replaced by an Advansea unit that still works fine but I think is being phased out.  I really like the idea of the forward looking sonar but wonder if the range and accuracy might improve if I wait a while on that one.  I have two backup chart plotters that are standalone plus a handheld.  I only have the original rotary autopilot which works fine so far. Would you recommend carrying a spare rudder sensor?  Beginning to get the boat ready for the trip from the Med. back to Florida.

Best,

James Alton
SV Sueño
Maramu #220,  about to begin another season in the Med!






Re: re caulking of stanchion base

Paul Osterberg
 

Bill
Where did you source the 360 l screws?
We are in the US until end October and could order them on line before departure to the Caribbean
Paul on Kerpa SM 259 now in Newport


SM2000 Hull 353 “Indecent”

Stephanie DiBelardino <stephiedib@...>
 

Dear All,

I want to thank you all for the information you have shared over the years. It has been a great help. Indecent had a contract on her two weeks after she was introduced to the market, and we closed 7/31/18. We are switching to a smaller motor yacht, 42’, with twin Cummins diesels, that will get us back and forth between the Bahamas and our slip in Palm Beach Gardens in max 4 hrs, and as little as 2 1/2 if we have flat seas and peg her.

I do not have an e-mail for the new owner, a fellow from California, so I will send him a snail mail introducing him to this group. Concurrently, I ask that my name be eliminated from this mailing list.

Many thanks and fair winds,
Stephanie
2013 Sabre Sedan Express, “Sea Dog”

On Aug 6, 2018, at 4:59 PM, amelyachtowners@... wrote:

Amel Yacht Owners - Forum for owners of Amel sailboats Group
15 Messages Digest #5749
1a Re: Question about the refrigiration system on an A54 by "Nick"
2a Re: Looking for suggestions on galley refrigerator by "James Cromie" jamescromie
2b Re: Looking for suggestions on galley refrigerator by sykerpa
2c Re: Looking for suggestions on galley refrigerator by "Mark Erdos" markerdos
2d Re: Looking for suggestions on galley refrigerator by "Alexandre Uster von Baar" uster.rm
2e Re: Looking for suggestions on galley refrigerator by sykerpa
3a Re: Original Autopilot Integration With New Chartplotter by bill_9895
3b Re: Original Autopilot Integration With New Chartplotter by isaac_02906
4a Guidance on replacing Engine tray mounts by jamestim@...
4b Re: Guidance on replacing Engine tray mounts by "Stephen Davis" flyboyscdswa
5a Re: Amel 54 main mast seal by "Barry Connor" connor_barry
6a re caulking of stanchion base by sykerpa
6b Re: re caulking of stanchion base by jamestim@...
6c Re: re caulking of stanchion base by bill_9895
7 Frigoboat drain hose blocked by ya_fohi
Messages
1a Re: Question about the refrigiration system on an A54
Mon Aug 6, 2018 5:02 am (PDT) . Posted by: "Nick"
Hi,
As I understand it the 12vcirculating pumps for the fridge systems are standard 12v pumps but actually get 24v as measured. They work fine at the higher voltage and pump enough sea water to cool my three fridges on Amelia. I am sure you could replace them with a 24v pump but then you would draw double the current and maybe pump more water. As a matter of interest my three fridges worked fine in the West Indies but I noticed the flow of water out of the port through hull to be a bit feeble. So I investigated and there was a bit of crud in the pipe work so I flushed it out and now the flow is much faster though the fridges seam to be no less or indeed more happy. My conclusion is that the flow rate is not overly critical even in hot Caribbean and cool Azores.

Nick

Amelia (Amel 54 #019) Canary Islands

Sent from my iPhone

On 5 Aug 2018, at 12:26, arno.luijten@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

So, for those interested:
I looked it up on the Interweb and is seems Frigoboat (actual company name is Veco S.p.A.) has this system where they use a special developed circulation pump designedd to run 24/7. Apparently they did not want to develop a 24 volt version so they only have a 12 volt version. To accommodate a 24 volt ship's system they have some devices (like the pump switch) to lower the voltage from 24 to 12 volt. The compressor and such still runs on 24 volt as this is the standard Danfoss system that can accept both 12 and 24 volt.
So the switch (http://www.penguinfrigo.co.uk/shop/product/581/) itself converts the 24 volt into 12 volt to supply the pump.

The tricky part is that this pump has a fairly low consumption (1Amp. @ 12 Volt) and this pump should not be replaced by just any other pump, given it's duty cycle and noise level.
I'm actually wondering if this is not just a 24 volt pump set to rum at 12 volt to make it last longer and more quiet.
Amel 54's come equipped with a spare pump right next to the active one. There is a reason for this.

Arno

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2a Re: Looking for suggestions on galley refrigerator
Mon Aug 6, 2018 5:56 am (PDT) . Posted by: "James Cromie" jamescromie
This is great. Thanks for sharing Mark.
Perhaps you’d be willing to share your private email with me- I wanted to ask some other questions.
My email address is Jamescromie “at” yahoo dot com, and perhaps you could send me your email

Thanks.
James

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 6, 2018, at 6:45 AM, 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

James,



I don’t use Costal Climate Control anymore after having a bad experience with them. I purchased the parts at Go2Marine (cheaper bc of free shipping). The part are the same except for the condensing unit. The old unit is no longer made. The new unit is a little smaller and much more efficient. If you have the low/high Amel set up you can bypass that as the compressor is variable speed and makes a lot less noise. Here is the list of parts I used:



SKU Description Qty.

422326 Frigoboat, 160H, Horizontal Box Evaporator, with Door

422330 Frigoboat, Mechanical Thermostat for Refrigerator

422313 Frigoboat, Capri 35F, Air Cooled Condensing Unit, with Speed Board, 12/24 volt





With best regards,



Mark



Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Bonaire

www.creampuff.us



From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, August 5, 2018 11:18 PM
To: isaac_02906@... [amelyachtowners]
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Looking for suggestions on galley refrigerator





Mark -

Where did you source your replacement components for the refrigerator (thermostat, condenser, and compressor). Did you use Coastal Climate Control? What components did you use specifically (were you able to replace with exactly the same parts?).



Thanks,

James

SV Soteria SM 437

On Aug 5, 2018, at 6:41 PM, Bill Rouse @billrouse [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:





Good job, Mark.


Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970



On Sun, Aug 5, 2018, 15:58 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:





Tom,



We rebuilt our entire unit when last in the USA. We replace the thermostat, condenser and compressor. Like you we wanted to maintain the aesthetics of the wood. We looked at replacement units but rebuilding saved us about $1,000 and wasn’t hard to do. At the time we had the unit out, we also wrapped it with ½” foam board. We used duct tape to secure it to the unit. Since doing all of this, our unit now cools nicely and we can maintain about 38F even in the warmer climates. I’m not sure how much the foam helped but I figured it couldn’t hurt to increase the r-value where we could. The top of the unit is still without foam as we couldn’t get the unit back under the counter top with foam on it. Another thing that helps is to cover the hole in the bottom of the unit. We used tape but I guess a bung would work just as well. Since cold air sinks it seemed to me that it made sense to cover this. Lastly, we put a layer of foam board between the compressor unit under the fridge and the box. The compressor puts out quite a bit of heat and surely had to impact the temp of the box. We did this all at once so I can’t really tell you what part made the most difference or worked best. But, hopefully it’ll give you a few ideas. If I had to do this over again, I would opt for a larger evaporator. Hope this helps...



With best regards,



Mark



Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Bonaire

www.creampuff.us



From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of thomas.kleman
Sent: Sunday, August 5, 2018 4:36 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Looking for suggestions on galley refrigerator





Hello- I own SM2K #422. The galley refrigerator seems incapable of getting to 47 degrees F, even when it has been defrosted. OK I'm in Bonaire where it's hot right now but........I've done the best I can on the door seal and have insulated the evaporator connection behind the unit pretty well.



In the settee units, I have lined the interior of both of them with Kevothermal vacuum insulated panels (R value of this stuff is 60 for 1 inch.....it comes thinner as well). This isn't practical for the galley refrigerator because the outside fits too tightly in its place and the inside has too many irregularities to build a vacuum insulated panel mosaic.



I don't want to replace it.........it works and having a new unit wouldn't be great aesthetically (and getting the wood panel off the old unit to remedy that looks difficult).



I've considered increasing the size of the evaporator........even though re-siting the evaporator drip tray and drain is likewise kind of a pain.........



So I'm in the "scratching my head" place right now considering solutions. I was wondering if anyone had done anything creative..








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2b Re: Looking for suggestions on galley refrigerator
Mon Aug 6, 2018 6:17 am (PDT) . Posted by: sykerpa
Mark! Did you consider to have a water cooled compressor? We have changed the cooler and compressor in the fridge box. To a water cooled, I also build a freezer where the dishwasher was, also water cooled. Both compressors are cooled by circulating fresh water from the drinking water tank. Limited corrosion no growth of barnacles. No problem to use when on the hard, and very energy efficient. No noice from any fan. Took the water from the manual pump outlet to the compressors.
I have thought of doing something about the fridge cabinet as it get cool, but work most of the time and make noice even after I changed the fan. One thought was a drawer fridge, terribly expensive and does not match, or change compressor and evaporator. I think I know the answer now.
Paul on SY Kerpa SM 259
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2c Re: Looking for suggestions on galley refrigerator
Mon Aug 6, 2018 6:27 am (PDT) . Posted by: "Mark Erdos" markerdos
Paul,

I did not opt for the water cooled units. I am happy with the basic air cooled unit. If I had to do it over, I might opt for the larger box evaporator but this would mean redoing the drain tray and plumbing in the unit. I am happy with the results.

Also, I should note the parts come pre-charged so the installation is just connecting the quick-connect fittings. No charging or Freon necessary.

With best regards,

Mark

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff

www.creampuff.us

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Monday, August 6, 2018 9:01 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Looking for suggestions on galley refrigerator

Mark! Did you consider to have a water cooled compressor? We have changed the cooler and compressor in the fridge box. To a water cooled, I also build a freezer where the dishwasher was, also water cooled. Both compressors are cooled by circulating fresh water from the drinking water tank. Limited corrosion no growth of barnacles. No problem to use when on the hard, and very energy efficient. No noice from any fan. Took the water from the manual pump outlet to the compressors.
I have thought of doing something about the fridge cabinet as it get cool, but work most of the time and make noice even after I changed the fan. One thought was a drawer fridge, terribly expensive and does not match, or change compressor and evaporator. I think I know the answer now.
Paul on SY Kerpa SM 259

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2d Re: Looking for suggestions on galley refrigerator
Mon Aug 6, 2018 6:56 am (PDT) . Posted by: "Alexandre Uster von Baar" uster.rm
Good morning Paul,

If I may point out regarding the “water cooled” units.
“Chapter 3” of the Installation and Instruction Manual
http://www.coastalclimatecontrol.com/images/PDF/Refer/Frigoboat_Manual_Rev_37.pdf
it says:
NOTE: The W35F and W50F compressors are designed to work with sea water only. They are not designed to use water from other sources, i.e. water tanks, skin tanks, or coolant pumped through secondary heat exchangers. Serious health risks and/or performance issues can occur if any form of liquid coolant delivery is used other than sea water being pumped directly into the system and then expelled back overboard.
I assume this is some lawyer statement to prevent any type of potential lawsuit should the system leak into the fresh water tank.
Personally, I would not have any issue using the fresh water tank, but wanted to point out the information.

Sincerely, Alexandre.

--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 8/6/18, @Kerpa [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Looking for suggestions on galley refrigerator
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Monday, August 6, 2018, 8:00 AM












Mark! Did you consider to have a water cooled
compressor? We have changed the cooler and compressor in the
fridge box. To a water cooled, I also build a freezer where
the dishwasher was, also water cooled. Both compressors are
cooled by circulating fresh water from the drinking water
tank. Limited corrosion no growth of barnacles. No problem
to use when on the hard, and very energy efficient. No noice
from any fan. Took the water from the manual pump outlet to
the compressors.

I have thought of doing something about the fridge cabinet
as it get cool, but work most of the time and make noice
even after I changed the fan. One thought was a drawer
fridge, terribly expensive and does not match, or change
compressor and evaporator. I think I know the answer now.

Paul on SY Kerpa SM 259





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2e Re: Looking for suggestions on galley refrigerator
Mon Aug 6, 2018 7:10 am (PDT) . Posted by: sykerpa
Alexandre
Thank you, yes assume legal protection, using the drinking water becoming more and more frequent as it has its advantages
Paul.
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3a Re: Original Autopilot Integration With New Chartplotter
Mon Aug 6, 2018 7:29 am (PDT) . Posted by: bill_9895
Mark,

The Puddle Jump is held every year. The page http://www.pacificpuddlejump..com/articles.html referenced is a historical listing of all the articles published in the rally's sponsor magazine, Latitude 38, from 2005 through 2016.


If you scan down the list, you will find for each year there is a "Recap" article published after the rally. Each of the "Recaps" include a table of the survey responses from the rally participants that includes passage speed information and breakdown experiences.


For anyone not familiar, Latitude 38 is the local sailing rag for the San Francisco Bay area. One of the better local sailing magazines around. Of course mostly dedicated to the local news, but lots of information and news of general sailing interest as well.


Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA




---In amelyachtowners@..., <mcerdos@...> wrote :

Which article are you referring to? There are a lot of them on this page.


With best regards,

Mark

Skipper
Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275
Currently cruising - Bonaire
www.creampuff.us


From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Monday, August 6, 2018 12:51 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Original Autopilot Integration With New Chartplotter




An interesting source of anecdotal information on failures underway is the annual recap article from the Pacific Puddle Jump Rally published in Latitude 38.


http://www. http://www.pacificpuddlejump.com/articles.htmlpacificpuddlejump http://www.pacificpuddlejump.com/articles.html.com/articles.html http://www.pacificpuddlejump.com/articles.html


It's not terribly helpful to give real rates of failure since usually only about 25% of the boats actually fill out the end of rally survey, and the information is very sketchy about why things broke, but it give you an idea none the less.



It's also really interesting to see real passage time data and engine hour usage instead of the kind of bragging one normally gets around the yacht club bar.



Bill Kinney

SM160, Harmonie

Annapolis, MD, USA



















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3b Re: Original Autopilot Integration With New Chartplotter
Mon Aug 6, 2018 9:02 am (PDT) . Posted by: isaac_02906
Thanks to all for your valuable experience and input.


Mark Isaac
Lulu
SM 391
South Freeport, ME



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4a Guidance on replacing Engine tray mounts
Mon Aug 6, 2018 8:03 am (PDT) . Posted by: jamestim@...
Hi Amel owners!


We have just purchased SM2k #260, very glad to have joined the family!


We are trying to find out information on the motor tray mounts on SM2k (Volvo). Are these Amel items or regular vets/volvo ones? Has anyone replaced them? Our survey has shown excessive vibration pointing at worn mounts causing misalignment..


Enclosed some pics of the mounts in question.


Thanks in advance!


James & Louise


S/V TITANIUM - Valencia, Spain
SM2k


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4b Re: Guidance on replacing Engine tray mounts
Mon Aug 6, 2018 12:14 pm (PDT) . Posted by: "Stephen Davis" flyboyscdswa
Hello James and Louise,

Congratulations on your new Amel. They are great boats, and this forum is a fantastic resource to help get you through the learning curve.

With regards to your engine mounts, I would have them changed, and re-aligned before you use the boat much. Poor alignment and worn mounts can lead to breaking the coupling, or even worse, the coupling and the shaft could break. If you can find a mechanic that has done this before on an SM, that would be ideal. It can be done by a very handy owner, but requires lifting the engine a bit, and the alignment procedure is critical. Did I mention, it is not a fun job. Usually, Olivier is listening, and he has a very detailed alignment procedure he can provide. If he does not chime in soon, I’ll find my copy of the procedure, and forward it to you.

Enjoy your new boat.

Steve Davis
Aloha SM 72
Hawaii

On Aug 6, 2018, at 5:03 AM, jamestim@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Hi Amel owners!



We have just purchased SM2k #260, very glad to have joined the family!



We are trying to find out information on the motor tray mounts on SM2k (Volvo). Are these Amel items or regular vets/volvo ones? Has anyone replaced them? Our survey has shown excessive vibration pointing at worn mounts causing misalignment..



Enclosed some pics of the mounts in question.



Thanks in advance!



James & Louise



S/V TITANIUM - Valencia, Spain

SM2k



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5a Re: Amel 54 main mast seal
Mon Aug 6, 2018 8:27 am (PDT) . Posted by: "Barry Connor" connor_barry
Thank's Bob,
This makes it easy to understand, I will only seal the outside edges with my 5200 which I believe will hold the pad together for awhile, I will be in the Caribbean in a year or so and would like to get the experts to do this for me.Did they replace with an original pad?I understand Amel are on August holiday, so I will inquire to get a pad when they are back.
Thank's again to all for the help and advise.
Best Regards
Barry and PennyS/V Lady Penelope IIAmel 54. #17Sailing Croatia
On Monday, August 6, 2018, 6:45:28 AM EDT, Bob Hodgins bobh@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Barry,
I had my main mast pad changed in January this year in Martinique. I watched and here is what they did.

The jack system they had was specially made for the job. It was a single hand pump for the hydraulic, it was connected to two cylinders, one for each side of the mast. They placed large hard wood blocks on deck to distribute the load, on each side of the mast. The jack cylinders went on top of these blocks, and there was a custom made wood block that fit under the main winch on each side of the mast. When they pumped the jack, each side lifted exactly the same. They lifted it only about 35 or 40 cm, cleaned out the old pad and slid in the new one.

You might not want to be putting 5200 under the mast because it will be difficult to clean out with that limited space to work under the foot. On the outside of the mast might be OK.

My original pad was completely dissolved from age. I think the mast settled down that amount, and caused the rig to be loose. After installing the new pad, they tuned the rig using a tension gauge. I think they did a very good, professional job.

Bob Hodgins
Amel 54 #31
Currently in Raiatea, French Polynesia

-
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6a re caulking of stanchion base
Mon Aug 6, 2018 9:55 am (PDT) . Posted by: sykerpa
Hello!
i have some very light rust stains at the base on some of my stanchion bases, which is the best way to re caulk them?
Any idea how to get stubborn screws to loosen up?


Paul on SY Kerpa SM#259
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6b Re: re caulking of stanchion base
Mon Aug 6, 2018 11:46 am (PDT) . Posted by: jamestim@...

Hi Paul


We've got the same issue, albeit a small one. Will be interested to hear what others think..


James


S/V TITANIUM - Valencia, Spain
SM2k #260



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6c Re: re caulking of stanchion base
Mon Aug 6, 2018 1:26 pm (PDT) . Posted by: bill_9895
Paul,

What a timely question! I am in the process of doing exactly that. I have an impact wrench with a flat blade screwdriver bit that has been the only way most of these bolts come out. It is VITAL that the bit fit the screws very closely.


When we bought Harmonie we were told that pulling these screws and re-seating them after treating with Tef-Gel should be a once in ten-year project on any Amel. If it is done often it is easy. If not... it is a miserable project.


Rust at the base of the stanchions can come from three sources.


On Harmonie there is no bedding compound between the flat part of the stanchion base and the fiberglass gunwale. This means that there is a fairly large flat area of stainless steel that is mostly excluded from the oxygen in the air that protects it from corrosion, but where water can creep in and get rust started. This is the least critical rust issue. I see it on each of the stanchions I have removed so far, even on those that showed no visible rust stains around them before removal.


The bolts themselves can corrode on the underside of the head. Again, a place where water can get to, but has limited access to air. The problem with this is it can significantly weaken the bolt. I have seen stainless bolts with this kind of corrosion where the head literally fell off. So far I have found one bolt like this. The head twisted off when I put torque on it to remove. I am in the process now of drilling it out for removal. Not my idea of fun.


The last possible source of rust staining is the most serious, and is the real reason for making this a routine maintenance project. When water finds its way down into the threads of the bolts it begins to corrode the steel plate that Amel set into the fiberglass. The resulting rust irresistibly expands and will destroy the fiberglass around it in a very slow motion explosion. This requires a complex, and expensive repair.


The impact wrench has been successful at removing the bolts so far (except the one that broke!) After removal the heads are beat up enough that I am replacing them with the most corrosion resistant machine screws I can find--of 316L stainless.


The rail has a joint about a meter forward of the aft corner. Once you get the rear two stanchions unbolted, that piece can be removed. (The stanchion all the way back on the transom is through bolted, not in a tapped hole.)


Once you get a few stanchions unbolted, you will have enough "wiggle room" to lift each of the stanchion bases up, clean them up, and get some caulking under them. Since the stainless screws are going to be threaded into steel backing plates, they should be generously treated with Tef-Gel or whatever brand of anti-corrosion thread lubricant is your favorite. Then all will be better for another decade!


Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA





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7 Frigoboat drain hose blocked
Mon Aug 6, 2018 1:59 pm (PDT) . Posted by: ya_fohi
Hi all,


In our 54 there is an upright Frigoboat fridge in the galley which has the small freezer compartment at the top, and just below that is a tray to collect melted ice. That tray is connected to a small drain hose which disappears behind the fridge to where I do not know!. This hose seems to be blocked resulting in water accumulating at the bottom of the fridge, I would be grateful if someone has dealt with this before and could advise how to get access to this hose as it does not seem to be easy at all without some major dismantling which I'm reluctant to do without knowing what I'm doing.


Cheers,
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amell 54 #98



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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Original Autopilot Integration With New Chartplotter

 

James,

You know the rule: "If you have the spare, the original part will never fail."

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970

Any opinions and conclusions expressed in this message are solely those of the author and should not be construed as representing the opinion of an expert. Manufacturers' and Expert's precautions must be taken when dealing with mechanical and/or electrical systems to ensure that you are NOT harmed, and/or the device and/or system is NOT ruined. If in doubt, do not touch any referred to mechanical and/or electrical device or system.


On Mon, Aug 6, 2018 at 5:12 PM James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Bill Rouse,


   Thank you for sharing your experience and other information on this subject.  While I have not have a rudder reference indicator fail on my own boat, I have had this happen on more than one occasion on customer boats.  In an ideal world, I would like to carry a complete spare autopilot but of course there will be stowage considerations and I need to establish my priority list.  To that end, I really appreciate hearing from those with more Ocean sailing experience to help me prioritize things. The rudder angle reference is a relatively small and light component so I am thinking of carrying one since the stowage impact is minimal.  

Best,

James Alton
SV Sueño
Maramu #220

On Aug 5, 2018, at 6:54 PM, Bill Rouse brouse@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


I asked multiple circumnavigator, founder of the ARC and Odyssey, and  a very good friend, Jimmy Cornell, about autopilot failures. He said, that in his experience, about 10% of all autopilots will experience a critical component failure while crossing an ocean. In my comparatively limited experience, I saw about the same. I also saw far less than10% of boats crossing oceans have spares of all autopilot components. A failed rudder reference device will ruin a 3000 mile ocean crossing.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

On Sun, Aug 5, 2018, 12:19 greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Jams,

When it comes to spares and backups we are all informed by our experiences, prejudices and fears. It's hard to approach with total logic because we really don't have much reliable data about failure rates and causes.

One of the downsides to the NMEA2000 network is that it is all "of one piece." Although it is designed to be robust and fault tolerant, I have seen one corroded connector bring down a big piece of a boat's network.  It's probably a good idea to have a couple spare connectors, and a spare terminating resistor for a NMEA2000 network just in cast you need to bypass part of the circuit.

I do not have any bad experiences with rudder angle sensors, but all of the ones I have used were "dumb" ones hard wired to the course computer. They are simple circuits, and as long as they are kept dry, with good connections, they SHOULD work. On the other hand, without a working sensor, the AP is not usable...

Adding the complexity to have the rudder angle sensor connect through the network makes things...more complicated.  Our two independent AP computers have separate rudder angle sensors so I haven't really felt the need to think hard about backups for that part.  I do carry a complete, drop-in spare, linear drive.  So we have three drives, two computers, two rudder sensors, and two fluxgate compasses. Short of getting struck by lightening, we should be in good shape.

The only part of the system that we have deliberately kept independent of the NMEA2000 network is the backup AP.  If the network totally died, we would still have the ability to steer to a compass course with the older course computer.

We travel with enough hand held devices that include GPS receivers, and paper charts that even serious network problems would be an very annoying inconvenience, not a disaster.

I know some people love their forward scanning sonars, and for good reasons.  If I spent a lot of time cruising in rocky areas like New England I'd likely be more interested. For us, all of our "ground contact events" have been in gradual shoaling areas where we were well aware of the depth. When the forward scanning units get to the point they can help me find a 2.05 meter channel surrounded by 1.95 meter shoals I'll be all in!  

Theoretically, the forward scanning units would allow us to move through coral head infested waters without needing to be as attentive to time of day and visibility, but I am not ready to turn over that task to electronics. If we are doing the eyeball navigation thing anyway, the added value of the electronic version doesn't push it high enough on my wish list.  Don't get me wrong, these things are on my wish list, they just haven't quite gotten to the top of the priority list in the competition for available resources!

When my sailing students asked me some version of the question, "Do I need "X" on my boat to go cruising?" I asked them to do a thought experiment.  Imagine you are at anchor in the lagoon of an isolated tropical atoll.  Device "X" has just irreparably failed.  Can you get home?  If the answer is "Yes" then device "X" is a luxury.  One you might very much want to have, but in the harshest of analyses--a luxury.  If the answer is "No" and you would be stuck in this remote location until device "X" is working again, then you need two of them! 

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA

---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

Bill,

   I like your concept of having some stand alone instruments and would like to learn of a good way to have some of the benefits of the network without being reliant too on it .  I will be buying most everything new for my boat so have lots of options so long as I don’t blow the budget. (grin)   If you have any thoughts or suggestions on achieving a good balance between the standalone and networked items please share.    I am using a Zeus 3-9 as my plotter and was thinking of adding the B&G 4G radar.  My instrumentation is the original B&G Analog style which mostly still work.  The wind was replaced by an Advansea unit that still works fine but I think is being phased out.  I really like the idea of the forward looking sonar but wonder if the range and accuracy might improve if I wait a while on that one.  I have two backup chart plotters that are standalone plus a handheld.  I only have the original rotary autopilot which works fine so far. Would you recommend carrying a spare rudder sensor?  Beginning to get the boat ready for the trip from the Med. back to Florida.

Best,

James Alton
SV Sueño
Maramu #220,  about to begin another season in the Med!






Proud new owner of Amel SM50, first post

Charlie Kopp
 

Greetings to the group.

Nothing specific to report (although I do have about a hundred questions already). Just wanted to introduce myself to the group.

Last year, just before Halloween, I was lucky enough to fulfill a years-long dream and purchased Super Maramu #50. The vessel was already in Seattle, where I live, and already at my preferred marina as well.

I have sailed her about 20 times so far, and taken one 5-day trip up to the San Juan Islands.

I have noticed that it does, indeed, take a year to begin to understand the many systems. For example, I just noticed the excellent exhaust fan in the galley when I accidentally touched the controls while feeling for the light switch above and aft of the stove.

I've learned a lot already, fixed many things, discovered many more that need attention. My 2 biggest concerns currently are: Very rusty cast-iron ballast, and broken handle on fuel shutoff valve.

Anyway, hello to everyone. This is my first boat, quite possibly my last. I love the boat dearly, and I'm fairly obsessed with Monsieur Amel's story.

I'll be back, asking questions, weighing in on topics, and hopefully providing some assistance eventually.

- Charlie Kopp
-S/V Cloud Seven
-Amel SM #50 (1991)


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Original Autopilot Integration With New Chartplotter

James Alton
 

Bill Rouse,

   Thank you for sharing your experience and other information on this subject.  While I have not have a rudder reference indicator fail on my own boat, I have had this happen on more than one occasion on customer boats.  In an ideal world, I would like to carry a complete spare autopilot but of course there will be stowage considerations and I need to establish my priority list.  To that end, I really appreciate hearing from those with more Ocean sailing experience to help me prioritize things. The rudder angle reference is a relatively small and light component so I am thinking of carrying one since the stowage impact is minimal.  

Best,

James Alton
SV Sueño
Maramu #220

On Aug 5, 2018, at 6:54 PM, Bill Rouse brouse@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


I asked multiple circumnavigator, founder of the ARC and Odyssey, and  a very good friend, Jimmy Cornell, about autopilot failures. He said, that in his experience, about 10% of all autopilots will experience a critical component failure while crossing an ocean. In my comparatively limited experience, I saw about the same. I also saw far less than10% of boats crossing oceans have spares of all autopilot components. A failed rudder reference device will ruin a 3000 mile ocean crossing.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

On Sun, Aug 5, 2018, 12:19 greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Jams,

When it comes to spares and backups we are all informed by our experiences, prejudices and fears. It's hard to approach with total logic because we really don't have much reliable data about failure rates and causes.

One of the downsides to the NMEA2000 network is that it is all "of one piece." Although it is designed to be robust and fault tolerant, I have seen one corroded connector bring down a big piece of a boat's network.  It's probably a good idea to have a couple spare connectors, and a spare terminating resistor for a NMEA2000 network just in cast you need to bypass part of the circuit.

I do not have any bad experiences with rudder angle sensors, but all of the ones I have used were "dumb" ones hard wired to the course computer. They are simple circuits, and as long as they are kept dry, with good connections, they SHOULD work. On the other hand, without a working sensor, the AP is not usable...

Adding the complexity to have the rudder angle sensor connect through the network makes things...more complicated.  Our two independent AP computers have separate rudder angle sensors so I haven't really felt the need to think hard about backups for that part.  I do carry a complete, drop-in spare, linear drive.  So we have three drives, two computers, two rudder sensors, and two fluxgate compasses. Short of getting struck by lightening, we should be in good shape.

The only part of the system that we have deliberately kept independent of the NMEA2000 network is the backup AP.  If the network totally died, we would still have the ability to steer to a compass course with the older course computer.

We travel with enough hand held devices that include GPS receivers, and paper charts that even serious network problems would be an very annoying inconvenience, not a disaster.

I know some people love their forward scanning sonars, and for good reasons.  If I spent a lot of time cruising in rocky areas like New England I'd likely be more interested. For us, all of our "ground contact events" have been in gradual shoaling areas where we were well aware of the depth. When the forward scanning units get to the point they can help me find a 2.05 meter channel surrounded by 1.95 meter shoals I'll be all in!  

Theoretically, the forward scanning units would allow us to move through coral head infested waters without needing to be as attentive to time of day and visibility, but I am not ready to turn over that task to electronics. If we are doing the eyeball navigation thing anyway, the added value of the electronic version doesn't push it high enough on my wish list.  Don't get me wrong, these things are on my wish list, they just haven't quite gotten to the top of the priority list in the competition for available resources!

When my sailing students asked me some version of the question, "Do I need "X" on my boat to go cruising?" I asked them to do a thought experiment.  Imagine you are at anchor in the lagoon of an isolated tropical atoll.  Device "X" has just irreparably failed.  Can you get home?  If the answer is "Yes" then device "X" is a luxury.  One you might very much want to have, but in the harshest of analyses--a luxury.  If the answer is "No" and you would be stuck in this remote location until device "X" is working again, then you need two of them! 

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA

---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

Bill,

   I like your concept of having some stand alone instruments and would like to learn of a good way to have some of the benefits of the network without being reliant too on it .  I will be buying most everything new for my boat so have lots of options so long as I don’t blow the budget. (grin)   If you have any thoughts or suggestions on achieving a good balance between the standalone and networked items please share.    I am using a Zeus 3-9 as my plotter and was thinking of adding the B&G 4G radar.  My instrumentation is the original B&G Analog style which mostly still work.  The wind was replaced by an Advansea unit that still works fine but I think is being phased out.  I really like the idea of the forward looking sonar but wonder if the range and accuracy might improve if I wait a while on that one.  I have two backup chart plotters that are standalone plus a handheld.  I only have the original rotary autopilot which works fine so far. Would you recommend carrying a spare rudder sensor?  Beginning to get the boat ready for the trip from the Med. back to Florida.

Best,

James Alton
SV Sueño
Maramu #220,  about to begin another season in the Med!






Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: re caulking of stanchion base

James Alton
 

Bill,

  Thanks so much for sharing your project of removing and resealing the stanchion bases and fastenings.  Your reasons for doing this project echo my own and despite limited sailing time due to the Schengen visa limitations, I will be soon removing as many of the stanchion bolts as I can on my own boat and resealing them since I consider this project to be very high on the list.  It is very encouraging to me that you have been able to remove all but one bolt so far,  I suspect you are using a good technique.    Do you know if the bolts on Haramonie might have been removed and resealed before or do you think that they are original?   I am glad to hear that you are replacing all of the bolts with the most corrosion resistant ones that you can find,  money well spent!  May I ask what size bolt and thread count were used on your boat?
    
    I do have one question that has been troubling me regarding this project.  Without a doubt, using a product like Tef-gel will make future removal of the bolts much easier and I want to do the same.  I am however wondering if the Tef-gel will be enough to keep water from working it’s way down the threads, into the holes and eventually corroding the embedded steel?  In an ideal world, perhaps we could have the Tef-Gel only on the area of the bolt that rides on the threads of the embedded steel and a really good sealant to exclude the water on the part of the bolt that passes through the fibreglass.  Carefully applying the Tef-Gel to only the embedded threaded portion and using sealant on the bolt itself is something that I was wondering about.   I am not sure that it would work well since any Tef-gel contamination of the fibreglass surface would probably ruin the sealant bond/seal.  Do you feel that the Tef-Gel will provide an adequate seal on it’s own to keep water from reaching the embedded steel and is this something that you have also pondered?

Best,

James Alton
SV Sueño
Maramu #220

  

  

On Aug 6, 2018, at 4:26 PM, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Paul,


What a timely question!  I am in the process of doing exactly that. I have an impact wrench with a flat blade screwdriver bit that has been the only way most of these bolts come out.  It is VITAL that the bit fit the screws very closely.

When we bought Harmonie we were told that pulling these screws and re-seating them after treating with Tef-Gel should be a once in ten-year project on any Amel.  If it is done often it is easy.  If not... it is a miserable project.

Rust at the base of the stanchions can come from three sources.

On Harmonie there is no bedding compound between the flat part of the stanchion base and the fiberglass gunwale.  This means that there is a fairly large flat area of stainless steel that is mostly excluded from the oxygen in the air that protects it from corrosion, but where water can creep in and get rust started.  This is the least critical rust issue. I see it on each of the stanchions I have removed so far, even on those that showed no visible rust stains around them before removal.

The bolts themselves can corrode on the underside of the head.  Again, a place where water can get to, but has limited access to air.  The problem with this is it can significantly weaken the bolt.  I have seen stainless bolts with this kind of corrosion where the head literally fell off.  So far I have found one bolt like this.  The head twisted off when I put torque on it to remove.  I am in the process now of drilling it out for removal. Not my idea of fun.

The last possible source of rust staining is the most serious, and is the real reason for making this a routine maintenance project.  When water finds its way down into the threads of the bolts it begins to corrode the steel plate that Amel set into the fiberglass. The resulting rust irresistibly expands and will destroy the fiberglass around it in a very slow motion explosion. This requires a complex, and expensive repair.

The impact wrench has been successful at removing the bolts so far (except the one that broke!)  After removal the heads are beat up enough that I am replacing them with the most corrosion resistant machine screws I can find--of 316L stainless. 

The rail has a joint about a meter forward of the aft corner.  Once you get the rear two stanchions unbolted, that piece can be removed. (The stanchion all the way back on the transom is through bolted, not in a tapped hole.)

Once you get a few stanchions unbolted, you will have enough "wiggle room" to lift each of the stanchion bases up, clean them up, and get some caulking under them.  Since the stainless screws are going to be threaded into steel backing plates, they should be generously treated with Tef-Gel or whatever  brand of anti-corrosion thread lubricant is your favorite.  Then all will be better for another decade!

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA


 



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: re caulking of stanchion base

amelforme
 

Hello everyone. All Amel boats with the stainless steel tube lifelines have a stainless steel bolt that fastens into a threaded hole in a mild steel bar that is laminated on the inside of the on deck bulwark. There have been some changes from year to year on whether a slotted screw head or a metric allen headed screw was used as the fastener as well as bolts with washers being substituted in some areas for the imbedded mild steel bar with the threaded hole. I do tell my clients, of which Bill Kinney is one of, to remove the fasteners at least once every ten years and slather them with Ultra Tef Gel or Never Seize or similar compounds. The closer you are to the equator and attendant higher temperatures, the more often you should do this. Remember, the bar on the inside that is threaded to receive the fastener is mild steel. Mild steel and stainless steel don’t play well with each other so a good seizure preventative compound needs to be used. A steady hand and a square strike on the impact driver with the hammer as well as perfectly proper fit of the screw drive bit or the allen bit is essential. A little, carefully applied heat with a cold quench can help to break a corroded bond between the two different metals. Some sealant on the inside of the U-shaped foot of the stanchion base is highly advisable. As Bill points out, the screw headed bolts seem to get more beat up and sloppy than the allen shaped female receiver bolts so I urge replacement with these, as Amel did in later years, to make the process easier in the future. If your boat is over ten years old and you are not absolutely positive that this maintenance has  been done, schedule it soon, like yesterday…

 

HAVE FUN WITH YOUR AMEL. Joel

 

 

Joel F. Potter-Cruising Yacht Specialist LLC

THE EXPERIENCED AMEL GUY

954 462 5869 office

954 812 2485 cell

 

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 4:26 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: re caulking of stanchion base

 

 

Paul,

 

What a timely question!  I am in the process of doing exactly that. I have an impact wrench with a flat blade screwdriver bit that has been the only way most of these bolts come out.  It is VITAL that the bit fit the screws very closely.

 

When we bought Harmonie we were told that pulling these screws and re-seating them after treating with Tef-Gel should be a once in ten-year project on any Amel.  If it is done often it is easy.  If not... it is a miserable project.

 

Rust at the base of the stanchions can come from three sources.

 

On Harmonie there is no bedding compound between the flat part of the stanchion base and the fiberglass gunwale.  This means that there is a fairly large flat area of stainless steel that is mostly excluded from the oxygen in the air that protects it from corrosion, but where water can creep in and get rust started.  This is the least critical rust issue. I see it on each of the stanchions I have removed so far, even on those that showed no visible rust stains around them before removal.

 

The bolts themselves can corrode on the underside of the head.  Again, a place where water can get to, but has limited access to air.  The problem with this is it can significantly weaken the bolt.  I have seen stainless bolts with this kind of corrosion where the head literally fell off.  So far I have found one bolt like this.  The head twisted off when I put torque on it to remove.  I am in the process now of drilling it out for removal. Not my idea of fun.

 

The last possible source of rust staining is the most serious, and is the real reason for making this a routine maintenance project.  When water finds its way down into the threads of the bolts it begins to corrode the steel plate that Amel set into the fiberglass. The resulting rust irresistibly expand! s and will destroy the fiberglass around it in a very slow motion explosion. This requires a complex, and expensive repair.

 

The impact wrench has been successful at removing the bolts so far (except the one that broke!)  After removal the heads are beat up enough that I am replacing them with the most corrosion resistant machine screws I can find--of 316L stainless. 

 

The rail has a joint about a meter forward of the aft corner.  Once you get the rear two stanchions unbolted, that piece can be removed. (The stanchion all the way back on the transom is through bolted, not in a tapped hole.)

 

Once you get a few stanchions unbolted, you will have enough "wiggle room" to lift each of the stanchion bases up, clean them up, and get some caulking under them.  Since the stainless screws are going to be threaded into steel backing plates, they should be generously treated with Tef-Gel or whatever  brand of anti-corrosion thread lubricant is your favorite.  Then all will be better for another decade!



Bill Kinney

SM160, Harmonie

Annapolis, MD, USA





 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Frigoboat drain hose blocked

Mark Erdos
 

Paul,

 

Don’t be afraid to pull the fridge out a bit. On the SM53 there are only three thumb screw holding the unit in. (perhaps a 54 owner could chime in with the locations of the screws on the 54) Once the screws are out, it is possible to pull the fridge out about a foot without pulling it all the way out. Take off the cabinet doors in the kitchen under the sink (the whole panel should come off with the doors attached – look for the Phillips head screws (I think 2 or 3) lift and remove. You can now get to the back of the fridge.

 

But before you do all of this. Remove the drain tray inside the fridge. Try putting a water hose over the hole in the fridge – pulse the water a couple of times. It is possible you have some dirt blocking the drain hose and a little pressure might help clear it. This drains to the bilge.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Bonaire

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Monday, August 6, 2018 4:59 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Frigoboat drain hose blocked

 

 

Hi all,

 

In our 54 there is an upright Frigoboat fridge in the galley which has the small freezer compartment at the top, and just below that is a tray to collect melted ice. That tray is connected to a small drain hose which disappears behind the fridge to where I do not know!. This hose seems to be blocked resulting in water accumulating at the bottom of the fridge, I would be grateful if someone has dealt with this before and could advise how to get access to this hose as it does not seem to be easy at all without some major dismantling which I'm reluctant to do without knowing what I'm doing.

 

Cheers,

Paul

Ya Fohi - Amell 54 #98

 


Frigoboat drain hose blocked

ya_fohi
 

Hi all,

In our 54 there is an upright Frigoboat fridge in the galley which has the small freezer compartment at the top, and just below that is a tray to collect melted ice. That tray is connected to a small drain hose which disappears behind the fridge to where I do not know!. This hose seems to be blocked resulting in water accumulating at the bottom of the fridge, I would be grateful if someone has dealt with this before and could advise how to get access to this hose as it does not seem to be easy at all without some major dismantling which I'm reluctant to do without knowing what I'm doing.

Cheers,
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amell 54 #98



Re: re caulking of stanchion base

greatketch@...
 

Paul,

What a timely question!  I am in the process of doing exactly that. I have an impact wrench with a flat blade screwdriver bit that has been the only way most of these bolts come out.  It is VITAL that the bit fit the screws very closely.

When we bought Harmonie we were told that pulling these screws and re-seating them after treating with Tef-Gel should be a once in ten-year project on any Amel.  If it is done often it is easy.  If not... it is a miserable project.

Rust at the base of the stanchions can come from three sources.

On Harmonie there is no bedding compound between the flat part of the stanchion base and the fiberglass gunwale.  This means that there is a fairly large flat area of stainless steel that is mostly excluded from the oxygen in the air that protects it from corrosion, but where water can creep in and get rust started.  This is the least critical rust issue. I see it on each of the stanchions I have removed so far, even on those that showed no visible rust stains around them before removal.

The bolts themselves can corrode on the underside of the head.  Again, a place where water can get to, but has limited access to air.  The problem with this is it can significantly weaken the bolt.  I have seen stainless bolts with this kind of corrosion where the head literally fell off.  So far I have found one bolt like this.  The head twisted off when I put torque on it to remove.  I am in the process now of drilling it out for removal. Not my idea of fun.

The last possible source of rust staining is the most serious, and is the real reason for making this a routine maintenance project.  When water finds its way down into the threads of the bolts it begins to corrode the steel plate that Amel set into the fiberglass. The resulting rust irresistibly expands and will destroy the fiberglass around it in a very slow motion explosion. This requires a complex, and expensive repair.

The impact wrench has been successful at removing the bolts so far (except the one that broke!)  After removal the heads are beat up enough that I am replacing them with the most corrosion resistant machine screws I can find--of 316L stainless. 

The rail has a joint about a meter forward of the aft corner.  Once you get the rear two stanchions unbolted, that piece can be removed. (The stanchion all the way back on the transom is through bolted, not in a tapped hole.)

Once you get a few stanchions unbolted, you will have enough "wiggle room" to lift each of the stanchion bases up, clean them up, and get some caulking under them.  Since the stainless screws are going to be threaded into steel backing plates, they should be generously treated with Tef-Gel or whatever  brand of anti-corrosion thread lubricant is your favorite.  Then all will be better for another decade!

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA


 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Guidance on replacing Engine tray mounts

Stephen Davis
 

Hello James and Louise,

Congratulations on your new Amel. They are great boats, and this forum is a fantastic resource to help get you through the learning curve. 

With regards to your engine mounts, I would have them changed, and re-aligned before you use the boat much. Poor alignment and worn mounts can lead to breaking the coupling, or even worse, the coupling and the shaft could break. If you can find a mechanic that has done this before on an SM, that would be ideal. It can be done by a very handy owner, but requires lifting the engine a bit, and the alignment procedure is critical. Did I mention, it is not a fun job. Usually, Olivier is listening, and he has a very detailed alignment procedure he can provide. If he does not chime in soon, I’ll find my copy of the procedure, and forward it to you. 

Enjoy your new boat. 

Steve Davis
Aloha SM 72
Hawaii


On Aug 6, 2018, at 5:03 AM, jamestim@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Amel owners!


We have just purchased SM2k #260, very glad to have joined the family!


We are trying to find out information on the motor tray mounts on SM2k (Volvo). Are these Amel items or regular vets/volvo ones? Has anyone replaced them? Our survey has shown excessive vibration pointing at worn mounts causing misalignment..


Enclosed some pics of the mounts in question. 


Thanks in advance!


James & Louise


S/V TITANIUM - Valencia, Spain

SM2k



Re: re caulking of stanchion base

James
 


Hi Paul

We've got the same issue, albeit a small one. Will be interested to hear what others think..

James

S/V TITANIUM - Valencia, Spain

SM2k #260



re caulking of stanchion base

Paul Osterberg
 

Hello!

i have some very light rust stains at the base on some of my stanchion bases, which is the best way to re caulk them?

Any idea how to get stubborn screws to loosen up?


Paul on SY Kerpa SM#259