Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: re caulking of stanchion base

James Alton
 

Bill Kinney,

   Actually you may have done yourself a favour by using the slotted head style.  While the hex and square drive heads are really convenient since slippage of the tool is reduced, in my experience the maximum torque that you can apply to the head is not nearly as great as with the slotted head in a screw material that is not hardened.  I have driven probably upwards of 30,000 slotted bronze and stainless screws slotted screws and if the tool fits the head really well and the the screws are driven true, it is quite possible to twist the head right off of the screw if too much torque is applied, often without any damage to the slot in the head.  2 years ago, I drove 6000 square drive screws and I had to be quite careful to keep the torque down to prevent the square in the screw from beginning to yield.  I never broke off a single head due to the torque limitation and had to throw out several hundred screws that were damaged.  Future removal of those screws is very iffy IMO.  I think that the square and perhaps the hex drives are more suitable in a material where the head can be hardened such as a deck screw made of carbon steel.  I am not a fastener expert so just sharing my experiences but unless I can find a good reason to switch from the original slotted, I am going back with the original head installed by Amel.   If anyone has any information showing that a head other than hex beats the maximum torque of a slotted head, please enlighten me.

Best,

James Alton
SV Sueño
Maramu #220

On Aug 7, 2018, at 12:10 PM, mfmcgovern@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Davi,


That screw is black oxide coated mild steel.  It will rust in no time.  You want to use 316 Stainless Steel screws whenever you can on the boat.  Certainly for anything that is exposed to salt water.  Here is a link to a 316 Stainless Steel Hex Drive Flat Head screw should work for this application:  https://www.mcmaster.com/#93395a410/=1e1x4s3

Mark McGovern
SM 440 Cara
Deale, MD USA
 


---In amelyachtowners@...,
Davi,

That doesn't look like the right screw...  I do not think it is stainless...

The best choice would be part number Grainger Item# 26LG09  But before you order them, pull out one of t he existing screws to be sure the size and length is right!  All I know is what screws were used on my boat...

I used Grainger part number 31JR46.  It has a slotted head. I ordered them before I saw Joel's excellent suggestion to use the socket head screws. Next time!
 
Compass Marine has an excellent "how-to" page on the how's and why's of using butyl tape for sealing deck hardware.  https://marinehowto.com/bed-it-tape/

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA



---In amelyachtowners@...,
Bill, Hi there.... is this the screw for the job, from grainger? I think I might be needing this soon on my SM #56... Got some butyl tape ordered too...so would I unseat the stanchion, clean the rust from everything, tef gel the screws as per your instructions in this thread, then only use butyl tape to cover the whole stanchion base and rescrew everything down? 

Many thanks... 
Davi
 
 



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: re caulking of stanchion base

Mark Erdos
 

Bill,

 

Are you using an impact driver? Manual, air or electric?

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Monday, August 6, 2018 7:00 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: re caulking of stanchion base

 

 

James,

 

The bolts on Harmonie are Flat head machine screws, M8-1.25 x 30mm  I see no evidence that they had ever been removed since the boat was built in 1996.

 

We are very much on the same page with thinking about the issues/concerns in getting those bolts sealed back up.  If you read Joel's notes he does mention adding sealant under the stanchion base in addition to the tef-gel on the threads.  Done properly, that should keep the water away from the steel.

 

I think the combination is much better than just putting a dab of silicon on the screws as was done on my boat.

 

Here is my approach:

 

Each bolt hole will have a chamfer cut into the surface of the fiberglass with a countersink bit.

 

The bolts will have a thin coat of tef-gel added to the bottom couple of threads.  I might just put some down in the bolt hole to minimize contact with the upper threads--for all the reasons you expressed. Another alternative is to apply tef-gel to a screw, insert it all the way in the hole to smear the tef-gel on the female threads, then remove it and use a clean screw for final assembly.

 

The bottom of the stanchion base will have a layer of butyl sealing tape applied, with a little more wrapped around the bolt at the very top of the threads.

 

Butyl tape "flows" amazingly well.  Even if the threads of the bolts have a bit of tef-gel on them, I am confident that the butyl flowing into the chamfer I made at the top of the hole will be good enough to keep water out.

 

This basic technique has worked well for me in the past in similar situations. 

 

Bill Kinney

SM160, Harmonie

Annapolis, MD, USA


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Downwind sail for Amel 54

Alex Ramseyer <alexramseyer@...>
 

Dear Amelians,
I'm also evaluating a downwind / lightwind solution for my AMEL54, but I have the older configuration than Thomas, two separate poles, one on each side to be mounted to the mastfoot.
Other than that my requirements are identical to Thomas'. I haven't seen responses toThomas message, and appreciate each and every advice from the group.
fair winds,
Alex Ramseyer
AMEL54 #15
NO STRESS

On Tuesday, July 10, 2018, 5:18:54 AM GMT-4, 'S/V Garulfo' svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:


 

Hi all,

We need to replace our 10year old Genaker that died in the Atlantic ocean crossing. 

We are looking for a sail that can:

1. Be poled out opposite to the poled out genoa for 150°-210° downwind sailing (our 54 has the 3 pole attachment mast foot, 1 forward and two side),

2. sustain robust trade winds in that configuration (say up to 18knt apparent wind, 27 true wind). Or in other words such that we can near hull speed before we need to take it down to protect the sail itself. Our Genaker was  old and tired but it always felt a bit too light for the intended purposes,

3. be suitable for furler-emmagasinneur furling (A54 don’t have the SM ballooner setup, sadly)

4. Ideally, could also perform for reaching in light winds. Our hydranet sails are heavy and need 10kn apparent wind to fly properly. In other words, a sail to complement the beloved secret sail (mizzen staysail) in the prevalent conditions (150° to 100° awa).

5. Ideally, survive tropical sun as best as possible,

We spoke to sailmakers and I felt they are not very accustomed to the needs of long term cruising boats with ketch rigging. 

So i’m seeking feedback from the experienced sailors of this group, to see if there is a compromise to these requirements.


Many thanks in advance,


Thomas 
GARULFO 
A54-122
Curacao 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] resurrecting an old dessalator

Ryan Meador
 

Hi Kent,

Thank you for the data point.  It seems likely we have the same setup.  I believe my membranes are 20", though I haven't measured them.

Ryan and Kelly
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA



On Mon, Aug 6, 2018 at 10:57 PM Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Ryan,
I have SM 243, she has a 24V 60 L/H Desallator.  I'm not aboard now, but it sounds like that's what you have.  Two 20" membranes?
Kent


From: "Ryan Meador ryan.d.meador@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners@...
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2018 11:15 PM
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] resurrecting an old dessalator [1 Attachment]

 
[Attachment(s) from Ryan Meador included below]
Hi all,

I'm unsure of which model Dessalator is installed on my boat.  I've attached a photo..  The info on the label on the motor reads:

Amel
No 830042
Type MBT1141L
29V60l/h9848

It appears this is a 24V-only unit.  Is this typical?  I haven't had luck searching the mailing list archives for more info. I think there is something wrong with Yahoo right now..  Can anyone identify this model?

This unit has 13 hours on it.  That is not a typo.  The previous owner said he used it a couple times when he first got the boat and then never again.  I do not know if it was pickled at that time, nor if it has been flushed in the interim.  Can anyone offer advice on what I should do before I try turning it on?  I know I'll need to replace the membranes before I use it, but I just want to see if everything else works or if it needs a more serious overhaul.

Thanks,
Ryan and Kelly
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] changing cockpit cover installation from old Super Maramu to SM2K

karkauai
 

Hi Philipp,

I am going to replace my SM 2K cockpit enclosure with a Bimini type top.  If you want my framework, I will ship it to you at your cost.

Kent
Kristy
SM 243
Currently St Michaels MD USA

On Jul 28, 2018, at 11:01 AM, philipp.sollberger@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi dear Super Maramu Experts,


I think about to change my old installation of the cockpit cover on my SM#124 to the installation on the SM2K.

For this action I asked AMEL in La Rochelle and NV Equipment as well, but unfortunately I didn't get an answer that they could help.

Does anybody has a map with the dimensions of the inox tubes and also where to fix them on the cockpit triangle.


Many thanks for all support!


Philipp

SM#124, Félicie, Bâle



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Engine tray mounts

karkauai
 

Hi James,
Best advice I can give you is to get a surveyor very familiar with Amels.  I would get Olivier Beaute to do it and pay to fly him to where ever the boat is.  There is another well-thought-of Amel surveyor in Europe whose name you should be able to find on this forum.  I would also get Bill Rouse to assess the boat with you and take his Amel School as soon after purchasing the boat as possible.

Here’s how I replaced the mounts and aligned the engine with the CDrive.


Aligning the engine with the CDrive:
Have a solid aluminum piece made that has the same dimensions and bolt holes as the Vetus coupling.  Align the engine within recommended tolerances using this solid piece, mark everything, then replace the solid piece with the Vetus coupling.

Replacing the Engine Mounts:
I replaced my engine mounts a few years ago using Yanmar’s recommended mounts after repowering with a Yanmar 4JH4HTE 110HP.  The engine sits on the angle iron cradle and the cradle sits on the engine mounts which bolt to the stringers.  After removing the engine, the mounts were changed one at a time using the other existing mounts to keep the cradle where it was.  The new mounts were taller than the originals and the new engine required additional shims between the cradle and engine to get good alignment.

If this isn’t clear, let me know and I’ll try again.

Kent
Kristy SM243
Currently StMichaels MD USA

On Jul 28, 2018, at 9:08 AM, jamestim@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 


Hi Bill

The tray is in good condition and not rusty, just the forward mounts. They are old and just leaked the oil thats oil I think. Also, raw water pump leak would be enough of an explanation. 

Main reason for the replacement is just to clear up the alignment issues should there be one after realigning. More a preventive measure.

But yes, the tray is fine..

Thanks

James


Re: re caulking of stanchion base

mfmcgovern@...
 

Davi,

That screw is black oxide coated mild steel.  It will rust in no time.  You want to use 316 Stainless Steel screws whenever you can on the boat.  Certainly for anything that is exposed to salt water.  Here is a link to a 316 Stainless Steel Hex Drive Flat Head screw should work for this application:  https://www.mcmaster.com/#93395a410/=1e1x4s3

Mark McGovern
SM 440 Cara
Deale, MD USA
 


---In amelyachtowners@..., <greatketch@...> wrote :

Davi,

That doesn't look like the right screw...  I do not think it is stainless...

The best choice would be part number Grainger Item# 26LG09  But before you order them, pull out one of the existing screws to be sure the size and length is right!  All I know is what screws were used on my boat...

I used Grainger part number 31JR46.  It has a slotted head. I ordered them before I saw Joel's excellent suggestion to use the socket head screws. Next time!
 
Compass Marine has an excellent "how-to" page on the how's and why's of using butyl tape for sealing deck hardware.  https://marinehowto.com/bed-it-tape/

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA



---In amelyachtowners@..., <davi.rozgonyi@...> wrote :

Bill, Hi there.... is this the screw for the job, from grainger? I think I might be needing this soon on my SM #56... Got some butyl tape ordered too...so would I unseat the stanchion, clean the rust from everything, tef gel the screws as per your instructions in this thread, then only use butyl tape to cover the whole stanchion base and rescrew everything down? 

Many thanks... 
Davi
 
 


Re: re caulking of stanchion base

Craig Briggs
 

Hi Davi,
Suggest you use phosphoric acid to clean the rust and put some into the hole.  That will also passivate any rust on the embedded carbon steel plate, thus slowing future rusting.
Best, Craig, SN68


---In amelyachtowners@..., <davi.rozgonyi@...> wrote :

Bill, Hi there.... is this the screw for the job, from grainger? I think I might be needing this soon on my SM #56... Got some butyl tape ordered too...so would I unseat the stanchion, clean the rust from everything, tef gel the screws as per your instructions in this thread, then only use butyl tape to cover the whole stanchion base and rescrew everything down? 

Many thanks... 
Davi


Re: re caulking of stanchion base

mfmcgovern@...
 

Davi,

Those are black oxide coated mild steel.  They will rust in no time in that environment.  You want them made from 316 Stainless Steel.  Something like these should work:  https://www.mcmaster.com/#93395a410/=1e1x4s3

Mark McGovern
SM 440 Cara
Deale, MD USA


 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Question about the refrigiration system on an A54

ngtnewington Newington
 

Apologies you are right. I just measured 13.5v at the circulating pump. Not sure how I got that wrong, anyway. So they need to be 12v pumps for sure.

Nick 

Amelia (54)


On 7 Aug 2018, at 02:28, arno.luijten@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Today I measured the voltage directly across the circulation pump for the fridges and it measures 12.5 Volts when one or more fridges are running/cooling. That makes sense as the pump is 12 Volt.

Frigoboat does tell you to use a voltage divider in case you have a single  compressor setup and a 24 volt system. They even sell a device for this. But when you use the multi-compressor pump switch the divider is apparently build into the switch already.

So I dont' think the original Frigoboat pump can/should be used at 24 Volt. It's likely to burn up very quickly.

Cheers,

Arno


Re: re caulking of stanchion base

greatketch@...
 

Davi,

That doesn't look like the right screw...  I do not think it is stainless...

The best choice would be part number Grainger Item# 26LG09  But before you order them, pull out one of the existing screws to be sure the size and length is right!  All I know is what screws were used on my boat...

I used Grainger part number 31JR46.  It has a slotted head. I ordered them before I saw Joel's excellent suggestion to use the socket head screws. Next time!
 
Compass Marine has an excellent "how-to" page on the how's and why's of using butyl tape for sealing deck hardware.  https://marinehowto.com/bed-it-tape/

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA



---In amelyachtowners@..., <davi.rozgonyi@...> wrote :

Bill, Hi there.... is this the screw for the job, from grainger? I think I might be needing this soon on my SM #56... Got some butyl tape ordered too...so would I unseat the stanchion, clean the rust from everything, tef gel the screws as per your instructions in this thread, then only use butyl tape to cover the whole stanchion base and rescrew everything down? 

Many thanks... 
Davi
 
 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: re caulking of stanchion base

Mark Erdos
 

I guess I need to add this to the list of things to do one day.

 

What are the specs of the replacement screws?

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Bonaire

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Monday, August 6, 2018 7:12 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: re caulking of stanchion base

 

 

Paul,

 

I found them at https://www.grainger.com a great source for oddball bits and pieces at industrial--instead of marine--prices.

 

Bill Kinney

Sm160, Harmonie

Annapolis, MD, USA

 

 

 

 


Re: Question about the refrigiration system on an A54

Arno Luijten
 

Hi Thomas,

In the best Italian tradition the information is not very clear to discover, but if you go to https://nautikulma.fi/PDF/248-Veco.pdf, in the PDF at page 44 you will find the devices I referred to. It shows you the pump interface and the voltage divider. Maybe I have the user manual of the pump interface in one of the documentation binders on board, I would need to search for it.

Regartd,

Arno


Re: Question about the refrigiration system on an A54

ESTELLER
 

this12 volt pump can bé found 
in Osculati catalog at About 80 €
If his pump does not work probably the reason is on the carbons that can be easely checked and changed
It is also necessary to clean the head of the pump that can easely be opened 

José A54 ORION



Envoyé depuis mon smartphone Samsung Galaxy.


Re: re caulking of stanchion base

Davi Rozgonyi
 

Bill, Hi there.... is this the screw for the job, from grainger? I think I might be needing this soon on my SM #56... Got some butyl tape ordered too...so would I unseat the stanchion, clean the rust from everything, tef gel the screws as per your instructions in this thread, then only use butyl tape to cover the whole stanchion base and rescrew everything down? 

Many thanks... 
Davi


Re: SM Running Rigging

Craig Briggs
 

Hey Kent,

What line are you calling the "Tack Rope"?  
Sounds like an asym spinnaker pendant (non-Amel).

Craig


---In amelyachtowners@..., <karkauai@...> wrote :

I am replacing my running rigging prior to S Pacific cruise.  Looking at the files section, I have a couple questions:

What is the Tack Rope (10mm Kevlar, 11.5 meters)???

What line do you use for manually furling the genoa?  Diameter and length???  Is it led through blocks at the toe rail to the small cockpit winches?  It must be pretty long as it has to go from the cockpit to the furler and back, and have enough more to furl the sail.

Thanks in advance.
Kent
SM 243
Kristy



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Looking for suggestions on galley refrigerator

Craig Briggs
 

Out of curiosity I asked Veco (Annapolis Frigoboat/Climma distributor) about their warning to use only sea water for cooling, not tank water.  My questions are below with their answers in red. 
"Dear Veco,
I see in your Installation and Instruction Manual that you have a warning in Chapter 3 that the W35F and W50F Refrigeration Systems are designed to operate with sea water cooling only, not water from water tanks, etc. because serious health risks can occur. Frigoboat systems are designed for use with sea water only. There are no food-grade materials used, and if a condenser rupture were to occur there would be contamination of the drinking water from refrigerant and oil if the system was installed using the boat's water tanks.

I'm guessing the concern with using recirculating cooling water from a fresh water tank would be if the tank water were to heat up a lot or become insufficient, the refrigeration may not provide adequate cooling and food might spoil causing illness (and possible legal ramifications for your company). Absolutely. Also, we would rather not have the reputation of Frigoboat slighted by operators broadcasting of poor performance when in fact their systems have been installed and operated in a non-standard way.

Owner error might also allow the tank to become empty, although the system seemingly would respond as it would were a sea water feed to become clogged and no equipment damage would result. There is a temperature sensor on the condensing coil that will stop the compressor if it is seen that there is an inadequate supply of cooling water.

Can you confirm that the warning is indeed one to prevent owner error or is there actually an engineering issue with using fresh water from a tank?  That certainly seems not the issue as the system, I'm sure, will work fine in fresh water. By using recirculating water in a tank, you are adding several more steps of heat exchange. By using sea water we are always using a fresh source of water at a stable temperature. Heat travels from a higher temperature object to a lower temperature one, so for heat exchange to take place, there must be a difference in temperature between the two mediums, and the greater the difference, the more the heat exchange. The water recirculated back to the tank will be at a higher temperature than the water in the tank and so it will heat the water in the tank. The water in the tank has to be considerably warmer than its surroundings before it can dispense some of that heat, so the water in the tank will be warmer than the surroundings and the sea water. As the water in the tank gets warmer/hotter, there is less heat exchange, less efficiency, and more power is consumed due to elevated head pressures in the compressor. The Frigoboat W35 and W50 systems are designed to operate efficiently and safely with sea water at the maximum expected temperature. 
Best regards,
Craig Briggs
s/v Sangaris

I didn't word my last point very well - I meant to point out that the system doesn't care if it gets sea water or fresh water from, say, a river or in a lake. It's just a matter of them not wanting owners using tank water to avoid possible complaints, claims or the remote chance of drinking water contamination.

Craig


---In amelyachtowners@..., <uster@...> wrote :

Good morning Paul,

If I may point out regarding the “water cooled” units.
“Chapter 3” of the Installation and Instruction Manual
http://www.coastalclimatecontrol.com/images/PDF/Refer/Frigoboat_Manual_Rev_37.pdf
it says:
NOTE: The W35F and W50F compressors are designed to work with sea water only. They are not designed to use water from other sources, i.e. water tanks, skin tanks, or coolant pumped through secondary heat exchangers. Serious health risks and/or performance issues can occur if any form of liquid coolant delivery is used other than sea water being pumped directly into the system and then expelled back overboard.
I assume this is some lawyer statement to prevent any type of potential lawsuit should the system leak into the fresh water tank.
Personally, I would not have any issue using the fresh water tank, but wanted to point out the information.

Sincerely, Alexandre.



--------------------------------------------

On Mon, 8/6/18, osterberg.paul.l@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Looking for suggestions on galley refrigerator
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Monday, August 6, 2018, 8:00 AM


 









Mark! Did you consider to have a water cooled
compressor? We have changed the cooler and compressor in the
fridge box. To a water cooled, I also build a freezer where
the dishwasher was, also water cooled. Both compressors are
cooled by circulating fresh water from the drinking water
tank. Limited corrosion no growth of barnacles. No problem
to use when on the hard, and very energy efficient. No noice
from any fan. Took the water from the manual pump outlet to
the compressors.

I have thought of doing something about the fridge cabinet
as it get cool, but work most of the time and make noice
even after I changed the fan. One thought was a drawer
fridge, terribly expensive and does not match, or change
compressor and evaporator. I think I know the answer now.

Paul on SY Kerpa SM 259
 


Re: re caulking of stanchion base

Davi Rozgonyi
 

Hi Bill, is this the screw for the job? From the grainger site... I think this will be a task I'll have to do soon on my SM #56 too.... 
Thanks!
Davi


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Question about the refrigiration system on an A54

Sv Garulfo
 

Arno,

Thanks for the measure, it’s useful info. Do you have your source of frigoboat info? I’d be happy to read it. 
The circulation pump is hot indeed, and always has been, and I also saw it hot on a friend’s 54. Doesn’t mean it’s right! But the more data points the better. I’ll check all that again when we’re back in a couple of weeks. Looking forward to meeting you!


Thanks!

Thomas
Away from
GARULFO 
A54-122
Curacao 

On Tue, 7 Aug 2018 at 03:28, arno.luijten@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Today I measured the voltage directly across the circulation pump for the fridges and it measures 12.5 Volts when one or more fridges are running/cooling. That makes sense as the pump is 12 Volt.

Frigoboat does tell you to use a voltage divider in case you have a single  compressor setup and a 24 volt system. They even sell a device for this. But when you use the multi-compressor pump switch the divider is apparently build into the switch already.

So I dont' think the original Frigoboat pump can/should be used at 24 Volt. It's likely to burn up very quickly.

Cheers,

Arno


Re: SM Running Rigging

Ian Park
 

Kent
For Genoa furling just experiment. My switch needed cleaning so I sat on the foredeck with 8m of 10mm. It didn’t take long to fuel and little effort.
Ian
Ocean Hobo SN96