Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Guidance on replacing Engine tray mounts [1 Attachment]

Stephen Davis
 

Hi James,

I am attaching a PDF with the written instructions for the alignment. The Vetus mounts you found are the correct mounts, and are what came as original equipment. Some people have changed to other mounts, but we had these installed by the Amel recommended mechanic in Martinique in 2016, and they are very vibration free.

Good luck on your project.

Regards,

Steve
Aloha SM72
Hawaii


On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 1:00 AM jamestim@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
[Attachment(s) from jamestim@... [amelyachtowners] included below]


Hi Stephen

Yes, I agree on the seriousness of the alignment.. Olivier described to me the process for alignment, but if you've got something written I appreciate that.. I listened carefully, but didn't take any notes..

My first step is to find someone who has ideally done this job before.. Worst case, I'll find a good mechanic and we can figure it out together.. 

Are these mounts the Vetus type? 

I think I found what looks to be correct.. But if you can confirm?

Thanks again..
JAMES



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] resurrecting an old dessalator

Ryan Meador
 

Hi Bill,

I'm told my boat had about 35000 miles on it when I bought it.  It was cruised extensively in Europe after purchase, it's been across the Atlantic at least once (maybe 3 times), been to Bermuda many times, and been all through the Caribbean many times.  Frank just didn't see the value in the watermaker for some reason.

Ryan and Kelly
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA


On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 3:37 AM Bill Rouse brouse@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

I would turn it on and be prepared to test the TDS of the produced water. 

This confirms what I have said before that many Amels were sold in Europe that never really went anywhere. I bet your downwind poles, rigging, and downwind sails are new as well.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool..com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

On Tue, Aug 7, 2018, 15:14 Ryan Meador ryan.d.meador@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Kent,

Thank you for the data point.  It seems likely we have the same setup.  I believe my membranes are 20", though I haven't measured them.

Ryan and Kelly
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA



On Mon, Aug 6, 2018 at 10:57 PM Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Ryan,
I have SM 243, she has a 24V 60 L/H Desallator.  I'm not aboard now, but it sounds like that's what you have.  Two 20" membranes?
Kent


From: "Ryan Meador ryan.d.meador@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners@...
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2018 11:15 PM
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] resurrecting an old dessalator [1 Attachment]

 
[Attachment(s) from Ryan Meador included below]
Hi all,

I'm unsure of which model Dessalator is installed on my boat.  I've attached a photo..  The info on the label on the motor reads:

Amel
No 830042
Type MBT1141L
29V60l/h9848

It appears this is a 24V-only unit.  Is this typical?  I haven't had luck searching the mailing list archives for more info. I think there is something wrong with Yahoo right now..  Can anyone identify this model?

This unit has 13 hours on it.  That is not a typo.  The previous owner said he used it a couple times when he first got the boat and then never again.  I do not know if it was pickled at that time, nor if it has been flushed in the interim.  Can anyone offer advice on what I should do before I try turning it on?  I know I'll need to replace the membranes before I use it, but I just want to see if everything else works or if it needs a more serious overhaul.

Thanks,
Ryan and Kelly
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA




Toe pulley (headsail)

jlm@jlmertz.fr
 

Bonjour,

On my Super Maramu 2000 I have the two pulley cracked ! (they are maked "AMEL")

Amel have no delivery time for this spare part .......

It seams that I am not the only one with this problem ....

Did any one of you solved this without AMEL part ?

Merci

JL MERTZ

Cottonbay.fr


Re: Original Autopilot Integration With New Chartplotter

SV Perigee
 

Greetings all,


Adding to the group gestalt on this one . . .

 

New Chartplotter (existing A/P)

 

When we acquired our 2003 SM #396, then MOONSHOT, now PERIGEE, in Newport RI, Oct’16, the previous owner had started down the path of moving to NMEA2000.  The basis was a new Furuno Chartplotter and DRS4 radar; integrating AIS (Furuno FA-50) via Furuno Ethernet into a Furuno NAVNet TZT14 display, situated at the NAV STN in the ledge where the original radar display was located.  There were indications that a sister or compatible Furuno Chartplotter unit had also been installed at the helm, but this had been removed by the time the boat was placed on the market.

 

In any case, at the time of purchase, in order to facilitate access to the TZT chartplotter data at the helm (e.g. radar/AIS), a bracket for mounting an iPad had been installed above the engine instrument binnacle.  This was presumably to take advantage of the built-in WiFi capability of the TZT chartplotter, to pair with an App on an iDevice, which we have done successfully.  The iPad can be either “Read Only” (simply mirror the screen of the TZT at the NAV STN), or you can grant access privileges to allow the iPad app to control the TZT chartplotter from the helm (or any other) connected iDevice.  Both modalities work, in a fashion – sight delays in screen-build and refresh.


The original 400-series RayMarine autopilot was still in place – linear drive only, no rotary.  I had thought to install a rotary drive to supplement the linear drive, but ultimately decided to ‘keep it simple’ from a spares perspective, and hence stayed with all linear-drive only.  Perigee came with a new (still-in-the-box) linear drive, so this helped the decision.


Note: at that time, we did not have a back-up rudder position sensor, either installed or in spares.  I believe that the RM 400-series A/P absolutely needs a rudder sensor to function; but reading the literature of later generation RM A/Ps (e.g. the ‘Evolution’ system), manually calibrating the “Hard Over Time” might also be possible in lieu.


The original 400-series RayMarine A/P had been upgraded with the addition of the SHS (Smart Heading Sensor which is, basically, a Rate Gyro to supplement the original flux-gate compass), so was about as good as a 400-series unit can get (I think this addition takes the standard -400 to the “G” spec).  We were certainly more than happy with the performance and reliability of the system.  The control head was (if I recall correctly) a ST-7001+, as commonly installed, and was all that we needed or wanted.  BTW, the new EVO-400 A/Ps can interface with the legacy ST-7001 control head, and the -7001 may even be a better solution in some cases; such as, for example, changing display illumination is quicker and easier on the ‘old’ 7001-series control head.  The only ‘glitch’ we encountered with the original A/P was when we spent an extended period in a slip with the wheel lashed firmly amidships.


The rudder sensor developed a ‘weird spot’ at the point where the rudder had been lashed.  I conclude that this was due either to some minute wear or corrosion of the sensor mechanism at that exact spot.  The fault was evident for a week or two after getting underway again, with the A/P indicating “no rudder sensor” whenever the rudder position was at just that spot, at which point the A/P would alarm and drop into standby.   This fault eventually went away, but our experience may be instructive regarding lashing the wheel too firmly – some degree of movement may be more desirable than not.


Regarding NMEA interfacing.  The RM 400-series A/P uses -183 to communicate with the outside world.  To accommodate this, a Furuno NMEA black-box interface was used to create a bidirectional bridge between the -183 A/P and the NMEA-2000 backbone used by the new Furuno TZT Chartplotter (and, from the chartplotter, via the Ethernet network, to/for the Radar).  The HEADING information from the A/P was used as the HDG input for the Chartplotter display and Radar Sensor.  Active ROUTE info from the chartplotter enabled A/P TRACK functions (great when motoring for extended periods).  WIND information from the HYDRA-2000 processor (still with analogue sensors at that time) was made available to the NMEA-2000 network by yet another Furuno NMEA interface box, to provide an input to the chartplotter for True-wind calculations and also, importantly, for provide wind data to the A/P thereby enabling the WIND VANE functions. This set-up exceeded expectations.  But I did (eventually) discover these 183>-<2000 interface boxes to be the source of annoying 1Hz electrical interference that affected HF/SSB reception.


Later Developments

When the SONIC SPEED unit failed – whether sensor or processor, as yet unknown – we researched replacements for the Sonic Speed, but could find none (we found out later that a drop-in replacement for the Sonic Speed WAS available, we just couldn’t find it.).  Anyway, the failure of the sonic speed precipitated the transition to replace the analogue sensors with digital ones (initially boat speed / STW).  We settled on the DST800, using the same through-hull as the analogue depth sounder.  Rather than doing digital-analogue inputs to the Hydra, we elected to expand the N2K backbone to the junction area at the base of the main mast, and then make an additional N2K drop near the A/P to feed new digital displays at the helm.  We replaced the 5x B&G analogue instruments at the helm with 3x B&G Triton2 MFDs.  We have been very happy with this set-up.


We held the analogue wind sensors for the time being, using the pre-existing Hydra-183<->N2K bridge to send data onto the N2K network, from which the new digital displays at the helm received their data.  Worked first time, as it should.


All functionality for the RM-400G A/P was preserved: heading OUT to the radar/chartplotter, and RTE and WIND IN for the A/P TRACK and Wind Vane modes respectively.


When we had the masts off for the replacement of the standing rigging, we replaced the analogue wind-sensors on the top of the main mast with a digital MHU (at the same some extending the new N2K backbone to the mast head).


Autopilot Upgrade

Shortly afterwards, we then changed out the legacy RM-400G A/P, to be replaced by the latest RM EVO-400 system.  The 183>-<2000 interface box for the auto-pilot was replaced by an expensive RM cable to bridge the RayMarine proprietary SeaTalkNG network to the N2K network.  But other than that, the new A/P install was ‘out of the box’.   At the same time, I replaced the old rudder sensor with the new one that came with the EVO-400 but, strictly speaking, this was unnecessary.   I also replaced the old linear drive with the one we already had in spares.


I then serviced the old linear drive – replacing the clutch & brushes – before returning the refurbished unit to spares.  This was a morning’s work, if you have the parts on-hand, and an uncluttered work-bench ashore, which made it a fearless task.  Knowing that the new linear drive was already installed and working also de-stressed the work programme.


Redundancy

To provide redundancy for the A/P brain and other components, we then bought another complete EVO-400 A/P kit (Sail version); it has an earlier version, with a more rounded control head, but otherwise functionally identical.  I upgraded the firmware on the back-up EVO-400 CPU (the Starship enterprise thingey) to the latest-but-one version (couldn’t see any positives about the very latest version, and perhaps some potential downsides); the Control Head needed an update to the latest version; and the Grey Box was already up-to-date.  So the firmware on all components of the installed and backup-in-a-box systems are the same.  I know that having different variants shouldn’t ever be an issue, but I took the trouble to check and do so, “just in case”.



Hydra 2000

With all-digital sensors, and new helm displays, the Hydra-2000 processor and display at the NAV STN became redundant, and was electrically disconnected.  But it remains in place until we decide what to do with the hole.


With the Hydra-2000 decommissioned, we missed having a nice big readout of the wind at the NAV STN.  Whilst underway, we do get a readout of NAV parameters – including wind, apparent & true - on the TZT14 chartplotter display, via a configurable pop-out side bar.  But at anchor, having the chartplotter on chews more juice (and pumps heat into the cabin), so we installed a B&G Vulcan7, the smallest unit that would provide WiFi connectivity (the Vulcan5 did not, and in any case has now been discontinued).  We chose B&G, simply for similarity with the Triton2 displays at the helm.  We did consider putting another Triton2 MFD downstairs at the NAV STN, but for a small sum more we get more functionality (including the WiFi, which we don’t use at the moment, but fully expect to in time).  And we also like the thought of a backup, albeit smaller, chartplotter at the NAV STN.  Even though we have not put on a set of charts, it has a basic basemap, and may be able to provide a limp-home functionality if ever needed.  Also, importantly, it has its own built-in GPS (that can be put onto the N2K network, although we have inhibited this for the time being) AND the unit can, if we want, also output route (and wind) information onto the N2K network for the TRACK (and wind-vane) function of the autopilot.


AIS

The disappointment of the whole set-up is that we are unable to port RADAR or AIS data off the FURUNO CanBus or Ethernet networks, and onto the N2K backbone.  Meaning that we do not have RADAR or AIS at the helm, unless we add a Furuno MFD at the helm, or run the Furuno APP on an iPad.  As we already use a completely independent NAV-only solution at the helm for situational awareness (iSailor), we do not often run the Furuno app on the iPad.  As a result, electronic conflict resolution, via either RADAR or AIS, is mainly done downstairs at the NAV station.  This is a matter of choice, to reinforce that watch-keeping is primarily visual, and the watch-keeper’s job is to keep their head up and eyes out of the cockpit.  So keeping the RADAR and AIS away from the helm discourages the person on the HELM from getting distracted by being “head down”.  We have found this also encourages and reinforces team-work and communication in tight situations, having 4-eyes instead of 2 working a problem.  But in normal solo-watch situations, someone sitting at the helm can easily see the chartplotter at the NAV STN, and any AIS (or radar) target of interest can be readily seen.  With the basics established, we have only just started to set the AIS and RADAR proximity alarms.


All that said, having AIS data on the N2K network would be a welcome enhancement, as we could then use one of the Triton2 MFDs to show proximate AIS traffic.  To that end, we are looking at supplementing the current Furuno AIS (Ethernet-based FA-50) with another AIS unit.  Current thinking is that this might be something like the Vesper Marine WatchMate XB-8000, which has the added benefit of providing a N2K gateway, with WiFi and USB connectivity also built-in (e.g., to feed OpenCPN on a computer and big-screen, as Steve on SV ALOHA does).


Power Management

The other thing in mind is to re-wire the NAV STN.  The reason being that, we now have a host of 24-to-12V DC-DC converters powering the various boxes at the NAV STN (i.e., 2x for the TZT Chartplotter, others for VHF, AIS, Ethernet HUB, Radar PWR supply, and WeatherFax, for example).  These converters are supplied from a common rail, which is powered up by the single NAV STN Circuit Breaker in the hanging locker.  Meaning that just to get the VHF up and running, for example, we have the whole current draw for all those converters, whether or not any of the downstream equipment is on.  We are thinking to insert a separate switch panel to direct power to the individual DC-DC converters, which then power their respective equipment.  But that’s a topic for another day.


Lessons Learnt

Minimise risk during transition: we were able to preserve the original functionality along the way, with minimal risk of ending up with black screens because of a single fault.  We achieved this by adopting an incremental approach, rather than going ‘big bang’.  (Basically, we were doing a “cruising re-fit” and wished not to be tied down if a glitch in supply or installation might mean that we needed to go to sea with limited (or no) navigation, communication or surveillance capability.)

 

Ooops – a single point-of-failure:  Now, the whole N2K network is being fed from a common power supply (the Furuno TZT chartplotter).  Recently, we had to have the chartplotter out to be returned to Furuno for repair (another story).  Which took down the whole N2K network.  (We did have a separate 12V-DC power connector at the ready, just in case, but it was unnecessary.)   One thought is to provide power to electrically separate A and B sides of the N2K network (keeping a common data-path), and establish the ability to provide 12V-DC separately to either side, independent of the Furuno chartplotter.  Basically, the ‘A’ side, which links sensors to the NAV Station, and ‘B’ side which takes data to/from the NAV STN from/to the helm & A/P controller.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           

Prior understanding is necessary – one can never do too much homework:  In order to keep upgrade costs from making a startling up-tick near the end, a decision regarding the overall orientation of the upgrade path needs to be made at an early stage.  A clear picture of the end-state needs to be established.  In my case, this was to keep as closely as possible to the ‘as factory fitted’: RayMarine for Autopilot, Furuno for Radar (& Chartplotter), and B&G for Sensors & Instruments.  I didn’t have a choice about the Furuno Radar & Chartplotter combo, but are nevertheless happy with the choice made by the previous owner.  So this was no biggie.  But getting to the A/P, it is less clear.  Knowing what I do now, it may have been better to keep the Raymarine Linear Drive and Rudder sensor, and move to a B&G A/P (brain, control head & heading reference unit).  This would have gotten away from the Raymarine SeaTalk NG, and placed everything (except AIS & Radar) on the N2K network and allowed all data from the B&G sensor suite to be available on the B&G A/P Control Head which would, as an added benefit, enable to use the B&G Vulcan7 downstairs at the nav station to also be an A/P controller (either as a secondary whilst on-watch below, or backup should the helm controller fail).  Or, go all Raymarine, keeping the RM A/P, using RM for the sensor & display package (i.e. the i70s, as per ALOHA), and a smaller auxiliary RM MFD (or just an i70s) below at the NAV Station (to replace the Hydra 2000 display).  We are not unhappy with the present status quo, but one always wonders what might have been done better.

 

If any questions, please do not hesitate to ask.  We are relatively stationary for a few weeks, and minimising ‘boat projects’ during this time, so I should be fairly responsive to requests.

 

Your aye,

 

David

SV Perigee, SM#396

Spanish Water, Curaçao


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Drawer/cupboard pulls [1 Attachment]

karkauai
 

Thanks for looking into this Mark.

So the aluminum version, even anodized, won’t have the shiny chrome look?

Does anyone ordering them have preferences of black ABS at $7 each vs aluminum at $14 (or $18 anodized).

My initial reaction is that if they don’t have the chrome look, I’d probably go with the ABS.  On the other hand we don’t know how long the ABS will hold up (I’m assured it is very tough material and he’s going to make the thin part of the handle slightly thicker than the original to help strengthen that part that breaks most commonly.)
I’m happy to go with the majority.

Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy
SM 243

On Aug 8, 2018, at 10:16 AM, mfmcgovern@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent,


I can make them for $14 out of 6061 Aluminum.  I would like to make at least 20 at that price if at all possible.  We can also have them clear anodized for an additional ~$4 each.  I have not yet received an exact quote from my anodizer but from experience it will be around that price.  Clear anodizing will impart more of a matte/satin finish to the aluminum.  Lead time to make them is 2 weeks.  Add a week if we need to anodize them.  If we do end making some of these, I will make an additional ~10 extra while we are set up so that we will have some in-stock and ready to go if anyone ever needs a few more down the road.  Attached is a rendering of the model.  

My feelings will NOT be hurt if you guys prefer the cheaper 3D printed ABS option!

Mark McGovern
SM 440 Cara
Deale, MD USA




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Fuel Polishing system

rg@...
 

bump for GARULFO


Fuel polishing

Sv Garulfo
 

Hi all,

Annoyingly neither google nor my email app can find a discussion that took place on the group a few months about fuel polishing systems.

I clearly remember someone mentioning the Reverso module, and others sharing their experience and other techniques. 

If anyone has the thread handy, could you bump it? 

Many thanks

Thomas
Away from 
GARULFO 
A54-122
Curacao 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] changing cockpit cover installation from old Super Maramu to SM2K

karkauai
 

We’re heading S this Fall, thru the Canal in early Spring.

Kent
S/V Kristy
SM 243



 

Sounds great Kent. You must be getting close to your Pacific adventure. You are going to be blown away (as in the mind, not the boat) when you experience the variety of the Pacific islands.

Cheers

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Windlass SM 2000

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Mine was #289, so pretty closed:
The Windlass was a Lofran Tigres
http://www.nikimat.com/lofrans_tigres_windlass.html

I’d be very nervous to have any one (not already familiar with an Amel) chartering one… they are going to destroy your bow thruster in a few minutes…

Sincerely, Alexandre



--------------------------------------------

On Wed, 8/8/18, Alin Misescu alin1923@yahoo.com [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Windlass SM 2000
To: "amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, August 8, 2018, 9:50 PM


 









Hello to all Amel owners. I
own a SM 2000, Wanderer hull number 283, launched in
2000.Can
someone give me  information about the windlass?, type,
size etc
My boat is through the process of
being put into charter and my surveyor wants to know
this.... Thank you. All the best .
Sent
from Yahoo Mail on Android


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Guidance on replacing Engine tray mounts

James
 


Hi Stephen

Yes, I agree on the seriousness of the alignment.. Olivier described to me the process for alignment, but if you've got something written I appreciate that.. I listened carefully, but didn't take any notes..

My first step is to find someone who has ideally done this job before.. Worst case, I'll find a good mechanic and we can figure it out together.. 

Are these mounts the Vetus type? 

I think I found what looks to be correct.. But if you can confirm?

Thanks again..
JAMES



Re: Guidance on replacing Engine tray mounts

James
 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Guidance on replacing Engine tray mounts

James
 


Hi Stephen

Yes, I agree on the seriousness of the alignment.. Olivier described to me the process for alignment, but if you've got something written I appreciate that.. I listened carefully, but didn't take any notes..

My first step is to find someone who has ideally done this job before.. Worst case, I'll find a good mechanic and we can figure it out together.. 

Are these mounts the Vetus type? 

I think I found what looks to be correct.. But if you can confirm?

Thanks again..
JAMES



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: re caulking of stanchion base

Brent Cameron
 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Windlass SM 2000

Eric Freedman
 

Mine is a lofrans tigress.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2018 10:50 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Windlass SM 2000

 

 

Hello to all Amel owners. 

I own a SM 2000, Wanderer hull number 283, launched in 2000.

Can someone give me  information about the windlass?, type, size etc
My boat is through the process of being put into charter and my surveyor wants to know this.... Thank you. All the best .


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: re caulking of stanchion base

Eric Freedman
 

I use never seize only on the shaft for the mainsail outhaul. I grease it every 6 months. Never seize is more like an anti- corrosive. It is advertised as a lubricant. I believe they also say it decreases galvanic corrosion. However after using Duralac for so many years I am sold on it.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2018 10:41 PM
To: isaac_02906@... [amelyachtowners]
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: re caulking of stanchion base

 

 

How would you compare this to Never Seez.  They are very different materials with different purposes, and I would want to know when one would use one or the other of these antiseize / anti-corrosion compounds.  

 

James

On Aug 8, 2018, at 10:14 PM, 'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

I have personally rebuilt 3 sailboats from the through hulls up.

I Used Duralac on all of them. It is far superior to tefgel as it is much more . It is a paste and not a gel/..

 

Duralac is an anti-corrosive jointing compound for use between joints of dissimilar metals.. It is in the form of a tough, flexible, yellow paste with low moisture permeability, and contains barium chromate in an inert filler matrix. The barium chromate is only very slightly soluble in water, so it remains in the joint, even in the presence of a considerable flow of water. It has a long useful life because it only becomes active in the presence of conditions which promote corrosion. 
• Indispensable for the effective sealing of joints between dissimilar metals --- even very active magnesium alloys 
• Effective at preventing corrosion at stress contact points in similar metals, such as rivets in masts 
• Protects metals in contact with non-metallic materials such as wood, resins, rubber, etc. 
• Especially useful in saltwater environments which exacerbate corrosive processes 
• Conforms to specification DTD 369B
.

 

It remains “waterproof “ and has worked well on my newest boat for the last 16 years.

I visited a boat I rebuilt 20 years ago and helped the owner do some maintenance. The bolts with Duralac came out like new.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

https://www.fisheriessupply.com/saddington-consultants-plus-duralac-anti-corrosion-jointing-compound

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] 
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 5:57 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: re caulking of stanchion base

 

  

Bill,

 

  Thanks so much for sharing your project of removing and resealing the stanchion bases and fastenings.  Your reasons for doing this project echo my own and despite limited sailing time due to the Schengen visa limitations, I will be soon removing as many of the stanchion bolts as I can on my own boat and resealing them since I consider this project to be very high on the list.  It is very encouraging to me that you have been able to remove all but one bolt so far,  I suspect you are using a good technique.    Do you know if the bolts on Haramonie might have been removed and resealed before or do you think that they are original?   I am glad to hear that you are replacing all of the bolts with the most corrosion resistant ones that you can find,  money well spent!  May I ask what size bolt and thread count were used on your boat?

    

    I do have one question that has been troubling me regarding this project.  Without a doubt, using a product like Tef-gel will make future removal of the bolts much easier and I want to do the same.  I am however wondering if the Tef-gel will be enough to keep water from working it’s way down the threads, into the holes and eventually corroding the embedded steel?  In an ideal world, perhaps we could have the Tef-Gel only on the area of the bolt that rides on the threads of the embedded steel and a really good sealant to exclude the water on the part of the bolt that passes through the fibreglass.  Carefully applying the Tef-Gel to only the embedded threaded portion and using sealant on the bolt itself is something that I was wondering about.   I am not sure that it would work well since any Tef-gel contamination of the fibreglass surface would probably ruin the sealant bond/seal.  Do you feel that the Tef-Gel will provide an adequate seal on it’s own to keep water from reaching the embedded steel and is this something that you have also pondered?

 

Best,

 

James Alton

SV Sueño

Maramu #220

 

  

 

  

On Aug 6, 2018, at 4:26 PM, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Paul,

 

What a timely question!  I am in the process of doing exactly that. I have an impact wrench with a flat blade screwdriver bit that has been the only way most of these bolts come out.  It is VITAL that the bit fit the screws very closely.

 

When we bought Harmonie we were told that pulling these screws and re-seating them after treating with Tef-Gel should be a once in ten-year project on any Amel.  If it is done often it is easy..  If not... it is a miserable project.

 

Rust at the base of the stanchions can come from three sources.

 

On Harmonie there is no bedding compound between the flat part of the stanchion base and the fiberglass gunwale.  This means that there is a fairly large flat area of stainless steel that is mostly excluded from the oxygen in the air that protects it from corrosion, but where water can creep in and get rust started.  This is the least critical rust issue. I see it on each of the stanchions I have removed so far, even on those that showed no visible rust stains around them before removal.

 

The bolts themselves can corrode on the underside of the head.  Again, a place where water can get to, but has limited access to air.  The problem with this is it can significantly weaken the bolt.  I have seen stainless bolts with this kind of corrosion where the head literally fell off.  So far I have found one bolt like this.  The head twisted off when I put torque on it to remove.  I am in the process now of drilling it out for removal.. Not my idea of fun.

 

The last possible source of rust staining is the most serious, and is the real reason for making this a routine maintenance project.  When water finds its way down into the threads of the bolts it begins to corrode the steel plate that Amel set into the fiberglass. The resulting rust irresistibly expands and will destroy the fiberglass around it in a very slow motion explosion. This requires a complex, and expensive repair.

 

The impact wrench has been successful at removing the bolts so far (except the one that broke!)  After removal the heads are beat up enough that I am replacing them with the most corrosion resistant machine screws I can find--of 316L stainless. 

 

The rail has a joint about a meter forward of the aft corner.  Once you get the rear two stanchions unbolted, that piece can be removed. (The stanchion all the way back on the transom is through bolted, not in a tapped hole.)

 

Once you get a few stanchions unbolted, you will have enough "wiggle room" to lift each of the stanchion bases up, clean them up, and get some caulking under them.  Since the stainless screws are going to be threaded into steel backing plates, they should be generously treated with Tef-Gel or whatever  brand of anti-corrosion thread lubricant is your favorite.  Then all will be better for another decade!




Bill Kinney

SM160, Harmonie

Annapolis, MD, USA







 

 

 

 

 


FW: [Amel Yacht Owners] Looking for suggestions on galley refrigerator

Eric Freedman
 

 

 

From: sailormon [mailto:kimberlite@...]
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2018 9:58 PM
To: 'sailormon'
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Looking for suggestions on galley refrigerator

 

Hi,

We spend most of the winter in St Maarten or south.

We have never had a problem with the reefer.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: sailormon [mailto:kimberlite@...]
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2018 9:57 PM
To: 'amelyachtowners@...'
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Looking for suggestions on galley refrigerator

 

There was a piece of foam near the air intake for the compressor coil it degrade and caused the reefer to overheat.

Possibly you have the same problem.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of thomas.kleman
Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2018 4:36 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Looking for suggestions on galley refrigerator

 

 

Hello- I own SM2K #422. The galley refrigerator seems incapable of getting to 47 degrees F, even when it has been defrosted. OK I'm in Bonaire where it's hot right now but........I've done the best I can on the door seal and have insulated the evaporator connection behind the unit pretty well.

 

In the settee units, I have lined the interior of both of them with Kevothermal vacuum insulated panels (R value of this stuff is 60 for 1 inch....it comes thinner as well). This isn't practical for the galley refrigerator because the outside fits too tightly in its place and the inside has too many irregularities to build a vacuum insulated panel mosaic.

 

I don't want to replace it.........it works and having a new unit wouldn't be great aesthetically (and getting the wood panel off the old unit to remedy that looks difficult).

 

I've considered increasing the size of the evaporator.......even though re-siting the evaporator drip tray and drain is likewise kind of a pain.........

 

So I'm in the "scratching my head" place right now considering solutions. I was wondering if anyone had done anything creative.


Windlass SM 2000

Alin Misescu
 

Hello to all Amel owners. 
I own a SM 2000, Wanderer hull number 283, launched in 2000.
Can someone give me  information about the windlass?, type, size etc
My boat is through the process of being put into charter and my surveyor wants to know this.... Thank you. All the best .


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: re caulking of stanchion base

James Cromie
 

How would you compare this to Never Seez.  They are very different materials with different purposes, and I would want to know when one would use one or the other of these antiseize / anti-corrosion compounds.  

James

On Aug 8, 2018, at 10:14 PM, 'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


I have personally rebuilt 3 sailboats from the through hulls up.

I Used Duralac on all of them. It is far superior to tefgel as it is much more . It is a paste and not a gel/..

 

Duralac is an anti-corrosive jointing compound for use between joints of dissimilar metals.. It is in the form of a tough, flexible, yellow paste with low moisture permeability, and contains barium chromate in an inert filler matrix. The barium chromate is only very slightly soluble in water, so it remains in the joint, even in the presence of a considerable flow of water. It has a long useful life because it only becomes active in the presence of conditions which promote corrosion. 
• Indispensable for the effective sealing of joints between dissimilar metals --- even very active magnesium alloys 
• Effective at preventing corrosion at stress contact points in similar metals, such as rivets in masts 
• Protects metals in contact with non-metallic materials such as wood, resins, rubber, etc. 
• Especially useful in saltwater environments which exacerbate corrosive processes 
• Conforms to specification DTD 369B
.

 

It remains “waterproof “ and has worked well on my newest boat for the last 16 years.

I visited a boat I rebuilt 20 years ago and helped the owner do some maintenance. The bolts with Duralac came out like new.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

https://www.fisheriessupply.com/saddington-consultants-plus-duralac-anti-corrosion-jointing-compound

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] 
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 5:57 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: re caulking of stanchion base

 

  

Bill,

 

  Thanks so much for sharing your project of removing and resealing the stanchion bases and fastenings.  Your reasons for doing this project echo my own and despite limited sailing time due to the Schengen visa limitations, I will be soon removing as many of the stanchion bolts as I can on my own boat and resealing them since I consider this project to be very high on the list.  It is very encouraging to me that you have been able to remove all but one bolt so far,  I suspect you are using a good technique.    Do you know if the bolts on Haramonie might have been removed and resealed before or do you think that they are original?   I am glad to hear that you are replacing all of the bolts with the most corrosion resistant ones that you can find,  money well spent!  May I ask what size bolt and thread count were used on your boat?

    

    I do have one question that has been troubling me regarding this project.  Without a doubt, using a product like Tef-gel will make future removal of the bolts much easier and I want to do the same.  I am however wondering if the Tef-gel will be enough to keep water from working it’s way down the threads, into the holes and eventually corroding the embedded steel?  In an ideal world, perhaps we could have the Tef-Gel only on the area of the bolt that rides on the threads of the embedded steel and a really good sealant to exclude the water on the part of the bolt that passes through the fibreglass.  Carefully applying the Tef-Gel to only the embedded threaded portion and using sealant on the bolt itself is something that I was wondering about.   I am not sure that it would work well since any Tef-gel contamination of the fibreglass surface would probably ruin the sealant bond/seal.  Do you feel that the Tef-Gel will provide an adequate seal on it’s own to keep water from reaching the embedded steel and is this something that you have also pondered?

 

Best,

 

James Alton

SV Sueño

Maramu #220

 

  

 

  

On Aug 6, 2018, at 4:26 PM, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Paul,

 

What a timely question!  I am in the process of doing exactly that. I have an impact wrench with a flat blade screwdriver bit that has been the only way most of these bolts come out.  It is VITAL that the bit fit the screws very closely.

 

When we bought Harmonie we were told that pulling these screws and re-seating them after treating with Tef-Gel should be a once in ten-year project on any Amel.  If it is done often it is easy..  If not... it is a miserable project.

 

Rust at the base of the stanchions can come from three sources.

 

On Harmonie there is no bedding compound between the flat part of the stanchion base and the fiberglass gunwale.  This means that there is a fairly large flat area of stainless steel that is mostly excluded from the oxygen in the air that protects it from corrosion, but where water can creep in and get rust started.  This is the least critical rust issue. I see it on each of the stanchions I have removed so far, even on those that showed no visible rust stains around them before removal.

 

The bolts themselves can corrode on the underside of the head.  Again, a place where water can get to, but has limited access to air.  The problem with this is it can significantly weaken the bolt.  I have seen stainless bolts with this kind of corrosion where the head literally fell off.  So far I have found one bolt like this.  The head twisted off when I put torque on it to remove.  I am in the process now of drilling it out for removal.. Not my idea of fun.

 

The last possible source of rust staining is the most serious, and is the real reason for making this a routine maintenance project.  When water finds its way down into the threads of the bolts it begins to corrode the steel plate that Amel set into the fiberglass. The resulting rust irresistibly expands and will destroy the fiberglass around it in a very slow motion explosion. This requires a complex, and expensive repair.

 

The impact wrench has been successful at removing the bolts so far (except the one that broke!)  After removal the heads are beat up enough that I am replacing them with the most corrosion resistant machine screws I can find--of 316L stainless. 

 

The rail has a joint about a meter forward of the aft corner.  Once you get the rear two stanchions unbolted, that piece can be removed. (The stanchion all the way back on the transom is through bolted, not in a tapped hole.)

 

Once you get a few stanchions unbolted, you will have enough "wiggle room" to lift each of the stanchion bases up, clean them up, and get some caulking under them.  Since the stainless screws are going to be threaded into steel backing plates, they should be generously treated with Tef-Gel or whatever  brand of anti-corrosion thread lubricant is your favorite.  Then all will be better for another decade!



Bill Kinney

SM160, Harmonie

Annapolis, MD, USA





 

 

 




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: re caulking of stanchion base

James Alton
 

Mark,

   I had the same results in my search for data as well.  I am thinking that if both the Phillips and the slotted are able to provide enough torque to shear of the bolt that it doesn’t matter too much about which design can provide the most torque.  I think that in the case of installing fasteners in an application where they are likely to seize at some point that using a drive that will allow the application of enough torque to match the strength of the fastener to be something to consider.  Clamping a specimen into a vice and attempting to twist off the head might be one way to conduct this test.  

  It sounds like you know how to deal with stubborn fasteners in steel.  Heat is an invaluable tool in fastener removal in my experience and fortunately there is a cool (no pun intended) way to utilize heat to remove fasteners from fibreglass and wood without damage.  The tool uses inductive heating which creates eddy currents when in close proximity to metals, especially ferrous ones though you can tune it to work well on non ferrous.  To give you some idea of the potential, I was in a real pickle on a huge refastening job which required removal and replacement of more than 6000 #16 x 2 1/2” bronze slotted wood screws.  Initial testing revealed that 50% of the fasteners were breaking off right at the planking to frame interface or the heads were splitting when the torque was applied.  It is a really bad thing to just drill new holes in a wooden boat structurally so I got a really expensive induction tool that allowed me to remove (amazing to me) 100% of the remaining fastenings with no breakages saving the customer a ton of money and new #18 bronze screws went right into the old holes.  The heating tool does not directly affect wood or fibreglass for that matter but the metal can be heated to any temperature you want including glowing bright orange which is not a good idea for a fastener embedded in wood or fibreglass. (grin)  The unit I have allows you to dial down or up the power to exactly what you need and because the field reaches in a ways, the fastener gets heated for it’s whole length in a matter of seconds.  Most marine caulks and resins soften with the application of heat and I have had great luck removing stubborn fasteners using this method.  I am hoping it will work as well on the stuck screws that I expect to find in my stanchions etc.   Here is one example of the induction heating tool  Mine is a bit more advanced but works on the same principles.  https://boltbusterinc.com/kit/

  Thanks for the suggestion on the impact driver.

James Alton
SV Sueno
Maramu #220

On Aug 8, 2018, at 12:32 PM, mfmcgovern@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

James,


I found a lot of anecdotes and very little hard data.  I actually did find one study that while it did NOT support the claim that Phillips Head allows more torque transfer, it did conclude the ratio of axial effort to torque transfer was better with Phillips head:  https://epublications.marquette.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1226&context=theses_open

My main "tip" from the automotive words is to use some kind of anti-seize if you ever have plans to remove the fastener.  

Otherwise, "Heat it and Beat it" is the name of the game.  Heat being the best if you can use it.  Unfortunately, on a boat there's usually too much plastic, fiberglass or wood around to really use it a lot.  However, a MAPP Gas torch was invaluable to me in getting the clutch cones off my bone dry (and slightly bent) windlass shaft. No amount of prying would move them.  Last, use an Impact Driver vs a regular electric drill when trying to remove any fasteners you think might cause you trouble.

Mark McGovern
SM 440 Cara
Deale, MD USA      
 


---In amelyachtowners@..., <lokiyawl2@...> wrote :

Mark,

   Thanks for your input.  I am really curious to know if you found any data confirming that the Phillips head can transfer more torque to the screw than a slotted head because I would really like to know!   I have generally had worse luck with removing old Phillips screws than slotted but that could be the tools and or technique.  If you have learned any tricks l would be interested to know. 
     Without a doubt the slotted head fastener can be the most difficult to deal with in regards to slippage since there is nothing there to keep the centering.  Also the slot width seems to vary and the available tools seldom fit properly which is critical as Bill K. also states to successfully avoid slippage when applying high torque.  Proper fit usually requires me to grind a fatter tool down.   Finally, the shape of the tool tip is very critical.  Many of the tips I buy are tapered which will cause the tool to cam out of the slot.  What you want is a tip that is actually slightly undercut in that the very end/ tip of the tool is slightly thicker than the part of the tool that would otherwise contact the top of the screw head.  You want to put the pressure on the very bottom of the screw slot, not the top or else the pressure tends to open the slot creating the dreaded Vee shape that wants to cam out.  The bottom edges of the tool should be sharp which seems to cause the tool to bite into the fastener eliminating slippage and allowing the maximum torque to be applied.   I also like to apply a very slight undercut to the bottom face of the tool tip which helps to insure that the tips of the tool are fully engaged.  If you follow all of these steps I think that you will find that the tip will lock into the screw slot quite well so long as the screw itself has the original square slot.  If the screw slot has become Veed in shape due to using an improper tip, corrosion or slippage, carefully reshaping the slot with a dremel, or a tiny sharp file can often restore the slot.  This ability to recover the slotted head shape and potentially the maximum torque for another try at removal is unique I believe to the slotted head as compared to the center drive type fasteners.    I have recut a lot of slotted screw heads and often cut the slot a bit deeper in the process.  

    In the Automotive world I believe that you have another factor that makes the slotted fastener difficult to deal with.  It seems that  corrosion of steel slotted fasteners tends to round off the sharp edges of the slot.  Add that to a bit of oil and they can be almost impossible to remove!

Best,

James Alton
SV Sueño
Maramu #220

On Aug 8, 2018, at 9:08 AM, mfmcgovern@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

I work in automotive and have dealt with my share of seized fasteners.  Which bolt head type is "best" is an age-old question and one that does not really seem to have a definitive, scientific answer.  Here's a pretty good run-down of most of the available options:  https://www.wiha.com/en/screw-head-types/


In reality, the four head types that you can find relatively easy in 316 Stainless Steel in the sizes we would use on an Amel are:

1. Slot Head 
2.  Phillips Head
3.  Socket Head/Allen Head (internal hex)
< div>4.  Hex Head (external hex)

In my experience, Slot Head is by far the worst choice in terms of both the amount of torque you can apply and in keeping the tool on the fastener head.  However, it is available in the most sizes/lengths and is usually the cheapest option.  

Phillips Head will let you apply the most torque to the screw head.  However, you have to be able to apply a good bit of axial force (pushing the screwdriver down into the screw head) in order to avoid the screwdriver slipping out.  

Socket Head/Allen Head/Hex Head is a good choice when you have limited access to the screw head and you can't apply a lot of axial force.  However, you cannot apply a lot of torque to the head before stripping it out.  Socket Head/Allen head are "prettier" and come in a flat head version which can sit flush in countersunk holes like the ones in the SM stanchion bases that we are talking about in this thread.

www.mcmaster.com and www.grainger.com are two good places to find 316 Stainless Steel fasteners in the USA.  


Mark McGovern
SM 440 Cara
Deale, MD USA





Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Raising the waterline aft on SM

Eric Freedman
 

The orange stripe is gelcoat. We just sanded it and painted over it.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2018 12:38 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Raising the waterline aft on SM

 

 

The SM original orange stripe is painted-on gelcoat.

 

Best,

 

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  
http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970

 

Any opinions and conclusions expressed in this message are solely those of the author and should not be construed as representing the opinion of an expert. Manufacturers' and Expert's precautions must be taken when dealing with mechanical and/or electrical systems to ensure that you are NOT harmed, and/or the device and/or system is NOT ruined. If in doubt, do not touch any referred to mechanical and/or electrical device or system.

 

 

On Wed, Aug 8, 2018 at 2:13 AM divanz620@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

We did the same.

Just raised the antifoul up to the, in our case, red stripe. It is all paint on ours, no vinyl stripping required.

Some have laser lined it and lifted the waterline gradually from bow to stern.

We considered that, but in the end it was quicker and easier just to lift the whole waterline.

Sure its a bit high ate the bow, but so what, NO MORE SCRUBBING !!

It was well worth it

Good luck

Cheers

Alan

Elyse SM437

Port Vila

19781 - 19800 of 61052