Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Watermaker and transmission fluid

Alan Leslie
 

I'm now not so sure about this fresh water business.


In the Dessalator Duo 60 manual  it says:

Remember: The biggest enemy of the membranes is fresh water.

Fresh water should be always used with no pressure when going through the system
(pressure dial turned all the way anti clockwise) and the system should always run with no
pressure after a fresh water flush to dump all the fresh water that are in it, before making
freshwater from sea water (also with the pressure dial all the way anti clockwise).
When running the watermaker with the dial all the way anti clockwise, it will shut it self
down automatically after 1 minute. Only then, the watermaker is ready for use.


I have the Filmtec Membrane Technical Manual and I can find no discussion of this at all anywhere.

In fact a number of systems are illustrated that
1. Treat Brackish water
2. RO the RO water (double RO) to make ultrapure water.

So I don;t know where this freshwater enemy story comes from......nothing on a Google search.

If it really was a problem I would think Filmtec would warn about it.

Alan
Elyse SM437



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Watermaker and transmission fluid

karkauai
 

I don’t think it’s the pressure you need to watch, Pat.  It’s the RO water flow.  Does yours have the glass tube with float that indicates how much water you are making?  Keep that below the rated volume your unit produces.

Kent
S/V Kristy
SM243

On Aug 23, 2018, at 8:07 AM, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Craig , I will watch the video, I would really like to run it now before I leave, so that I can replace/repair here before departure. The membranes have only been used for six months , then pickled for 31/2 years . I don't know what that does to them , it seems if you ran them for awhile they would clean themselves ,who knows ,I don't. So you are saying as long as I don't turn the pressure up beyond the green zone , it would be OK .See ya in ST. Michaels.

Thanks,
Pat
SM123


-----Original Message-----
From: sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Thu, Aug 23, 2018 7:52 am
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Watermaker and transmission fluid

 

Hi Pat,

You definitely can run your watermaker in fresh water without ruining the membrane(s). The only caveat is that you must not exceed your fresh water output rating.  

Start your unit up with, as Alan says, the pressure knob fully closed (which you normally do). Then bring the pressure up slowly and monitor the fresh water output flow. In sea water, where you might need 800 psi to get your rated output (mine is 20 gph), in brackish it's maybe 400 or so and only 200ish in fresh water.

For a good video on this by Rich Boren, who owns the CruiseRO company, check out http://blog.cruiserowaterandpower.com/can-i-run-a-marine-water-maker-in-fresh-or-brackish-water/
If the link on the last line gets garbled by yahoo, it is http colon slash slash blog dot cruiserowaterandpower dot com slash can-i-run-a-marine-water-maker-in-fresh-or-brackish-water slash

I used to do this all the time on Sangaris, so I know it works.

Cheers, Craig SN68

---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

Alan, I am concerned about that , leaving them pickled so long and they were new four years ago. So it sounds like there is no way to fully test the system until I get to salt water. If I could find a way to make up some salt water and recirculate it ,that would work. I would like to put it through a stress test prior to heading for the Caribbean.
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: divanz620@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Wed, Aug 22, 2018 4:33 pm
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Watermaker and transmission fluid

 
Hi Pat,

ATF 90 - Automatic Transmission Fluid SAE 90

You can rinse the membranes with fresh water with the pressure knob fully anti clockwise i.e. no pressure.
If you pressurise the membranes with fresh water you will ruin them - if they are not already ruined from sitting pickled for that length of time.

Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Helm Seat

karkauai
 

I got a strap with hooks on either end from George and Kim on Indecent several years ago.  They got it fromWest Marine.
I put two eye bolts in the face of the nav station one fore and one aft of the drawer.  The strap hooks to them and makes a great back rest when working at the nav station.
But my butt still gets tired and my feet fall asleep if I sit on that stool too long.

Kent
SM 243
Kristy

On Aug 23, 2018, at 1:45 PM, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Bill, I too sit elsewhere as well most of the time , but still spend a fair amount of time at the helm. I have also considered changing out  the Nav seat.

Pat
SM123


-----Original Message-----
From: greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Thu, Aug 23, 2018 11:47 am
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Helm Seat

 
Pat,

I am pretty sure we have very similar seats.  Of course, we all use our boats differently.  Most of the time when we are on passage, I don't use the helmseat, but prefer lounging further back in the cockpit were there is better back support, and places to put my feet up.  If the helm seat was my go-to spot I might be looking for something to make it more comfortable.

I did something similar, but less radical, at the nav station.  Our boat had a simple, flat, bar-stool seat there.  I found myself sliding off backwards when heeled on starboard tack. 

We swapped out for a seat that was similar, except for a stainless rail as a low back rest that works great keeping my butt in place. It also gives us an extra handhold at a critical place in the cabin.  It had the additional advantage that it raised me 3 inches higher--enough I can actually type at the navstati on.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Helm Seat

Alan Leslie
 

Paul,
I bought it in New Zealand at a chandlery called Burnsco.....I have no idea of the brand.
I fabricated a 3mm stainless plate to bolt to the pedestal and to the seat...it is offset towards the centerline of the boat so i can get my knees under the nav table.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Helm Seat

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi again,

just incase you think I am geriatric. I am fit and agile, but even the fit and agile need hand holds.

Cheers

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 24 August 2018 at 07:26 "Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Hi Pat,

I regard the SM helm seat as a great design and a vital safety item. I have a lot of ocean miles behind me and in the vigorous seaways we encounter out there its fixed place stability is a huge safety factor. I would never have a swiveling seat. In big rough seas, oh boy. Likewise, even more so the tube up the sides and across the back. When you are moving around the cockpit in rough conditions it is a fantastic "grab when I'm off balance" hand hold. Moving around the cockpit in a seaway I am using that hand hold all the time. Bad accidents on yachts at sea are often caused by falls.As we age our bones become brittle and our balance less. Henri gave us hand holds every where for good reason. Swiveling padded comfort seats are for the marina and harbour set. Not for serious off shore.

Kind Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

On 24 August 2018 at 01:19 "Bill Rouse brouse@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Pat,

You know what I am going to say...yada, yada, don't change it because...yada, yada.

But, FYI, Judy and I sat in that seat in a cyclone in the middle of the IO. It is perfect! Don't change it.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970

Any opinions and conclusions expressed in this message are solely those of the author and should not be construed as representing the opinion of an expert. Manufacturers' and Expert's precautions must be considered when dealing with mechanical and/or electrical systems to ensure that you are NOT harmed, and/or the device and/or system is NOT ruined. If in doubt, do not touch any mechanical and/or electrical device or system  referred to  above.


On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 8:01 AM greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] < amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Pat,

The concern I’d have about sitting in a typical pedestal seat is not rough seas, but rather heeling. There are many very comfortable helm seat built for high end motor yachts, but they all assume that the boat is basically flat. I have not yet seen a pedestal seat I’d want to sit in when heeled at 15 degrees.

The other issue around a pedestal is structural. The deck in that area might need strengthening to support a single point of attachment of a pedestal. Note for example, the way the nav station seat pedestal is built into the boat.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA

 

 

 


 


 

 


 


 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Helm Seat

Paul Osterberg
 

Alan
Where did you bought it? Brand? Looks very nice indeed .
Paul on SY Kerpa SM 259


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Helm Seat

Ric Gottschalk <ric@...>
 

Greeting,

On my Santorin SN24 the pedestal seat is bolted in place and does not move. Even with cushions on the backrest and seat it is just hard enough to keep the crew from falling asleep on watch. Hence 90% of the time we just push the autopilot button and kickup our feet on the cockpit seats. Only had 1 crew who would ever sit there for hours pushing buttons to scroll thru the plotter, change light intensity, go to port 1 degree then strbd 3 degrees and try to calibrate the depth sounder in the gulf stream  

Ric Gottschalk

SN24 Bali Hai

Annapolis

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 2:59 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Helm Seat

 

 

The Santorin has a pedestal seat. Ours sits on the pedestal post (not bolted) and therefore does 2 handy things.
1. It can be lifted off at anchor and gives more cockpit space
2. It swivels, so that when heeled you can turn the seat so your back is always dead downhill.
No problems with the fitting, but the moulded base support does give it the strength required.

Ian ‘Ocean Hobo’ SN96


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Helm Seat

Alan Leslie
 

I agree the helm seat is great. The nav station stool terrible
We changed the navstation stool to this....much more comfortable in port and at sea, and it folds back out of the way.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Helm Seat

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Pat,

I regard the SM helm seat as a great design and a vital safety item. I have a lot of ocean miles behind me and in the vigorous seaways we encounter out there its fixed place stability is a huge safety factor. I would never have a swiveling seat. In big rough seas, oh boy. Likewise, even more so the tube up the sides and across the back. When you are moving around the cockpit in rough conditions it is a fantastic "grab when I'm off balance" hand hold. Moving around the cockpit in a seaway I am using that hand hold all the time. Bad accidents on yachts at sea are often caused by falls.As we age our bones become brittle and our balance less. Henri gave us hand holds every where for good reason. Swiveling padded comfort seats are for the marina and harbour set. Not for serious off shore.

Kind Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

On 24 August 2018 at 01:19 "Bill Rouse brouse@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Pat,

You know what I am going to say...yada, yada, don't change it because...yada, yada.

But, FYI, Judy and I sat in that seat in a cyclone in the middle of the IO. It is perfect! Don't change it.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970

Any opinions and conclusions expressed in this message are solely those of the author and should not be construed as representing the opinion of an expert. Manufacturers' and Expert's precautions must be considered when dealing with mechanical and/or electrical systems to ensure that you are NOT harmed, and/or the device and/or system is NOT ruined. If in doubt, do not touch any mechanical and/or electrical device or system  referred to  above.


On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 8:01 AM greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] < amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Pat,

The concern I’d have about sitting in a typical pedestal seat is not rough seas, but rather heeling. There are many very comfortable helm seat built for high end motor yachts, but they all assume that the boat is basically flat. I have not yet seen a pedestal seat I’d want to sit in when heeled at 15 degrees.

The other issue around a pedestal is structural. The deck in that area might need strengthening to support a single point of attachment of a pedestal. Note for example, the way the nav station seat pedestal is built into the boat.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA

 

 


 


 


Re: Helm Seat

Ian Park
 

The Santorin has a pedestal seat. Ours sits on the pedestal post (not bolted) and therefore does 2 handy things.
1. It can be lifted off at anchor and gives more cockpit space
2. It swivels, so that when heeled you can turn the seat so your back is always dead downhill.
No problems with the fitting, but the moulded base support does give it the strength required.

Ian ‘Ocean Hobo’ SN96


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Helm Seat

ngtnewington Newington
 

On Amelia I love the helm seat. At sea in all weather I have found it great.
The chart table seat on the other hand is awful! However as with all things in life afloat there is only so much space. The corridor to the aft cabin precludes having something really comfy ie larger.

I guess my general doctrine applies to all be it lovers or boats:
“Be to their virtues ever kind and their faults a little blind”
Nick (Amelia 54 )

On 23 Aug 2018, at 18:45, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Bill, I too sit elsewhere as well most of the time , but still spend a fair amount of time at the helm. I have also considered changing out  the Nav seat.

Pat
SM123


-----Original Message-----
From: greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Thu, Aug 23, 2018 11:47 am
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Helm Seat

 
Pat,

I am pretty sure we have very similar seats.  Of course, we all use our boats differently.  Most of the time when we are on passage, I don't use the helmseat, but prefer lounging further back in the cockpit were there is better back support, and places to put my feet up.  If the helm seat was my go-to spot I might be looking for something to make it more comfortable.

I did something similar, but less radical, at the nav station.  Our boat had a simple, flat, bar-stool seat there.  I found myself sliding off backwards when heeled on starboard tack. 

We swapped out for a seat that was similar, except for a stainless rail as a low back rest that works great keeping my butt in place. It also gives us an extra handhold at a critical place in the cabin.  It had the additional advantage that it raised me 3 inches higher--enough I can actually type at the navstati on.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Helm Seat

Patrick McAneny
 

Bill, I too sit elsewhere as well most of the time , but still spend a fair amount of time at the helm. I have also considered changing out  the Nav seat.
Pat
SM123


-----Original Message-----
From: greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Thu, Aug 23, 2018 11:47 am
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Helm Seat

 
Pat,

I am pretty sure we have very similar seats.  Of course, we all use our boats differently.  Most of the time when we are on passage, I don't use the helmseat, but prefer lounging further back in the cockpit were there is better back support, and places to put my feet up.  If the helm seat was my go-to spot I might be looking for something to make it more comfortable.

I did something similar, but less radical, at the nav station.  Our boat had a simple, flat, bar-stool seat there.  I found myself sliding off backwards when heeled on starboard tack. 

We swapped out for a seat that was similar, except for a stainless rail as a low back rest that works great keeping my butt in place. It also gives us an extra handhold at a critical place in the cabin.  It had the additional advantage that it raised me 3 inches higher--enough I can actually type at the navstati on.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Watermaker and transmission fluid

eric freedman
 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Watermaker and transmission fluid

 

Mark,

Eric is using an abbreviation. It is DEXRON II ATF. However, you cannot find DEXRON II because it is no longer made. Dexron VI replaced Dexron II and III.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970

Any opinions and conclusions expressed in this message are solely those of the author and should not be construed as representing the opinion of an expert. Manufacturers' and Expert's precautions must be considered when dealing with mechanical and/or electrical systems to ensure that you are NOT harmed, and/or the device and/or system is NOT ruined. If in doubt, do not touch any mechanical and/or electrical device or system referred to above.


On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 10:25 AM isaac_02906@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Eric,

Would you mind posting the updated list of approved fluids from ZF?  I looked long and hard for Dex II and could not find it.

Mark Isaac
SM391, Lulu
South Freeport, Maine


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Helm Seat

greatketch@...
 

Pat,

I am pretty sure we have very similar seats.  Of course, we all use our boats differently.  Most of the time when we are on passage, I don't use the helmseat, but prefer lounging further back in the cockpit were there is better back support, and places to put my feet up.  If the helm seat was my go-to spot I might be looking for something to make it more comfortable.

I did something similar, but less radical, at the nav station.  Our boat had a simple, flat, bar-stool seat there.  I found myself sliding off backwards when heeled on starboard tack. 

We swapped out for a seat that was similar, except for a stainless rail as a low back rest that works great keeping my butt in place. It also gives us an extra handhold at a critical place in the cabin.  It had the additional advantage that it raised me 3 inches higher--enough I can actually type at the navstation.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Watermaker and transmission fluid

Mark Isaac
 

Hi Eric,

Would you mind posting the updated list of approved fluids from ZF?  I looked long and hard for Dex II and could not find it.

Mark Isaac
SM391, Lulu
South Freeport, Maine


Re: Santorin spinnaker question

Beaute Olivier
 

one more picture


Re: Installing diesel heating on a Super Maramu

svperegrinus@yahoo.com
 

We had an Eberspächer Airtronic D5 installed in La Rochelle three years ago.  This is the brand and model Amel ordinarily installed on SM's where the buyer requested heating.

This install is easy on many SMs that were originally sold to the U.S. customers because if I understand correctly many of these Amels had a bunch of options included as standard.  The valuable factiry option here is "forced air ventilation".  Of course any number of Euroland boats also checked this option at build time, but, critically, not all.

If your boat has "forced air ventilation", the installation is not quite trivial, but "light".  The furnace is hung from the ceiling of the long cockpit portside locker, exactly replacing the two 24V fans installed there by the factory.  In this case, all the ducting to the forward, main and aft cabins obviously already exists.  The main additions are:

(1) The Eberspächer temperature sensor to be added on the port side of the dining table, above the oval cubbyhole, right on the mahogany.
(2) The furnace exhaust escape, where your hull will be breached on the port side, at the level of the sole of the long port locker
(3) The fuel pump, which will tap somewhere around the racor filters and run diagonally and upward towards port
(4) A bit of the ducting inside the long port locker should be upgraded to heater-rated ducting.  I guess you should change all of the ducting from the original thin-Amel-factory stuff, but we did not, and the boat has yet to catch on fire.
(5) The Eberspächer controller needs be installed somewhere.  We   put in on the galley's aft bulkhead, inward of the watermaker controls.  Some people put it on the removable piece of wood outward of the 230V electric panel.

We supplemented the default wall controller with a remote controller, so we can start/stop/adjust the heater from the aft cabin.  It is wireless, a bit smaller than a car fob's, and it introduces the ability to schedule automated heating cycles (say, Mo-Fri, 5am to 6am).  In the U.S. market, back in 2015, this was not available, even though it was offered in the European market.  We bought it from HEATSO, the British company Eric of Kimberlite recommended.  Note our remote is the _orange_backlit_version, which is compatible with the standard European _orange_backlit_bukhead_ controller.  In the U.S., they were still giving away a 70's-style controller with rotary buttons.

After three years of winter use, the thing has proven 100% reliable.

The thing is too noisy, so we hate it.

Yet we love it and need it because we sail in winter and live aboard all year.  We installed the Eberspächer silencer for the aft cabin duct because it was easy and cheap, but didn't install the silencers for the other two heating ducts, and most critically did not install the INTAKE silencer because hull #350 still has the short intake above the long cockpit locker.    At some point in later hulls Amel put the intake at the bottom of the small port locker, so the Eberspächer intake silencer may be easy to install in these lucky cases.  In our case, the intake sounds like we have a helicopter jet turbine about to take off from the cockpit.

Any Amels not having the forced air option preinstalled should install a quiet Hydronic heater.  I know that's what I would do.

Cheers,

Peregrinus
SM2K N°. 350 (2002)
En route, Porto Kayo to Koroni


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Santorin spinnaker question [1 Attachment]

 

Olivier, Thanks for that. I assumed the masthead top was the same as the SM.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970

Any opinions and conclusions expressed in this message are solely those of the author and should not be construed as representing the opinion of an expert. Manufacturers' and Expert's precautions must be considered when dealing with mechanical and/or electrical systems to ensure that you are NOT harmed, and/or the device and/or system is NOT ruined. If in doubt, do not touch any mechanical and/or electrical device or system referred to above.


On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 10:09 AM Beaute Olivier atlanticyachtsurvey@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
[Attachment(s) from Beaute Olivier included below]

Hello Herbert, Alan and Bill,

the Santorin main mast was not fitted with the welded aluminum like on the SM2K.
Here are pictures of an SM (before SM2K) masthead with a stainless steel support bolted onto the aluminum flat part at the top. It is, of course, isolated with a plastic sheet to prevent galvanic corrosion.
This plate must be strong and the welded eye that supports the block's shackle must be reinforced.

Good luck.

Olivier


Re: Santorin spinnaker question

Beaute Olivier
 

Hello Herbert, Alan and Bill,

the Santorin main mast was not fitted with the welded aluminum like on the SM2K.
Here are pictures of an SM (before SM2K) masthead with a stainless steel support bolted onto the aluminum flat part at the top. It is, of course, isolated with a plastic sheet to prevent galvanic corrosion.
This plate must be strong and the welded eye that supports the block's shackle must be reinforced.

Good luck.

Olivier

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