Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] ZF transmission

eric freedman
 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] ZF transmission

Paul Osterberg
 

I must disclose my lack of competence concerning the transmission, as I did not know there are a filtered to be
cleane or an o- ring to change. I have no manual on the transmission could not find any on the web either. Would appreciate if someone had a manual or a picture on the filter and where the o-ring is placed
Paul SM 259


Re: Toe pulley (headsail)

James Cromie
 

I would also be interested in a pair if you are able to source them. Please keep us informed!
Thanks, 

James


How much oil and dipstick reading.

eric freedman
 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Fwd: Seat photos in boat.

eric freedman
 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Fwd: Seat photos in boat. [2 Attachments]

eric freedman
 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] ZF transmission

eric freedman
 


Re: ZF transmission

Paul Osterberg
 

Bill Thank you, you remember right. W have had the boat for 3,5 years and 1500 h on the engine, probably time to change the transmission oil.
Paul SY Kerpa SM#259


Re: ZF transmission

greatketch@...
 

Paul,

I think I remember that you have the Volvo TMD22 engine.  If so, this applies to you...

You have to be a very careful talking about the ZF transmissions.  The ZF25M transmission that came on the Volvo TMD22 is a manual shift transmission, and holds about 0.75 liters of DEXTRAN IV automatic transmission fluid, NOT 90 weight oil.  The same exact machine was called an HBW250 before ZF and Hurth joined forces.

Other engines used a ZF25 transmission, which is a hydraulic shifting model with larger horsepower capacity and a completely different design.  It causes no end of confusion with model numbers so similar and actual designs so different!

The recommendation for change interval in my manual for the ZF25M is "Once a year." There is no change interval recommended based on hours of operation.  

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA



Re: ZF transmission

Dean Gillies
 

Oh, and you do not need a pump.
There is a convenient drain plug near the lower stbd fwd corner of the box.
(Easily accessible on the 54)

The most difficult part of the job is not making a mess!
Cheers
Dean


Re: ZF transmission

Dean Gillies
 

Paul,
I’ve just fitted a new one, and the numbers I’ve been given are:
25hours after installation, then every 300hours or 12 monthly after that.

ATF (Automatic Transmission Fluid), is not 80W.
It is a specific product for automatic transmissions (it’s invariably red in colour).
There is a very long list of compatible ATF products in the ZF25 operating manual.
Others may have favourite brands, but you can use pretty much any fluid designated ATF for a modern vehicle auto transmission.
Any gas station will sell it.

Your ZF-25 takes 3 Litres, plus a bit more for the cooler, brake and lines.

Cheers
Dean

SY STELLA
AMEL 54#154


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Expected RPM at WOT

Dean Gillies
 

Hi Ruedi,
You’re right about the no load numbers, and interestingly your ‘load’ pressures are around 5-10kPa lower than mine across the board.
Importantly though, we are both significantly below Porter’s pressure numbers at any given RPM.
This is all good data for Porter in his discussion with Volvo.

See you in a few days. We will be staying in the Dioni Boutique Hotel in Preveza on Mon/Tues nights, so easy catch up in town when you arrive.

Cheers
Dean


Seat photos in boat.

Danny Simms
 

This is "deluxe seat MA 704-31"
Danny
SM 299 Ocean Pearl

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Danny Simms <sailorman.ds@...>
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2018 at 13:18
Subject: Seat photos in boat.
To: <Sailw32@...>


Hi Pat. Hope this helps
Danny


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Expected RPM at WOT

Rudolf Waldispuehl
 

Hi Gang
Very interesting and great thinking scenarios Dean made. Definitively worth to check!

Just for curiosity and for completion if someone is interested. I made same RPM test with and without load today. Test with AUTOPROP, Calm sea, little wind, no current. 
Interestingly my "no-load" turbo pressure number are lower than those reported from Dean (ink. 2 with 0 kPa on 1600/1800). I’m not an Engine-Engineer, so I can’t interpret the difference. 

For your reference, load test with AUTOPROP , RPM, temp. turbo pressure numbers :

RPM.  Temp  kPa
1400 78 10
1500 79 10
1600 79 20
1800 79 40
2000 79 60
2200 80 90
2400 80 110
2600 81 110
2800 82 120

My no-load (neutral) numbers are as follows:

RPM. temp kPa
1400 76 10
1500 76 10
1600 77 0
1800 77 0
2000 77 10
2200 77 10
2400 77 20
2600 78 20
2800 78 30
3000 78 30
3200 78 30 (WOT)

Best 
Ruedi 
SY-WASABI 
A-54.#55

Von: <amelyachtowners@...> on behalf of "trifin@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Antworten an: <amelyachtowners@...>
Datum: Samstag, 1. September 2018 um 17:16
An: <amelyachtowners@...>
Betreff: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Expected RPM at WOT

 

Porter,
Further to my last ...

Here’s a scenario...

Let’s assume your boost sensor is reading higher than it should (faulty sensor) or the pressure IS higher than it should be (faulty Turbo?).
Let’s also guess that the software which reads this pressure signal reacts by limiting the rpm from going any higher when some max pressure value is reached, say 120/130kPa. (Seems like a reasonable reaction),

This scenario would produce the symptom you are seeing.

In the no-load situation, the boost pressure does not get high enough to limit the rpm, and it just tops out at 3200 as usual.
In the load situation the pressure (or pressure perceived by the sensor) reaches a maximum limit and the software prevents rpm from going any higher.

This could also explain the Autoprop effect you saw. The AP may have loaded the engine erratically, such that max boost was reached in an instantaneous way because of the erratic load and the software immediately tried to reduce rpm. The smoother load curve of the fixed prop would probably not affect the engine so dramatically.

Guesswork in the dark.

Cheers
Dean


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Expected RPM at WOT

ngtnewington Newington
 

Porter,

Honestly carrying an extra ton will not make much difference. There is nothing wrong with the boat itself. 

It has to be the electronically controlled command to the common rail. Or some sensor that effects it. 

Good luck 

Nick


On 1 Sep 2018, at 17:52, Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Nick. Thanks again. I agree!!  

This is long block #3 for this 1800hr D3
Bill Rouse and I think the devil is in the other parts. The “short block” timing system or electronics. 

Yesterday I compared WOT out of gear: 3200 rpm with no prop but in gear WOT: 3190rpm

 I think this test exonerates all but the engine itself. The only outlier could be the boat itself. But we have a clean hull. Not a barnacle or a growth. So weight??? We’re pretty full. 500 l of fuel but a full load with spares and  scuba tanks an air compressor etc. I think I may do a full water tank test run vs empty water tank test run. See what a 2000 lb difference makes. 

The other issue is Volvo. They’ve gone to ground. I think they are at a loss as well. But zero comms yesterday. It’s the weekend now. I’ll be curious what happens Monday. If anything. 

Thanks again

Porter
A54-152



Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 

On Sep 1, 2018, at 8:37 AM, trifin@...[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Porter,
This may be nothing, but for completeness I’ll mention it.

You seem to be hitting near max boost rather early, with pressure of 120kPa at 2200 rpm.
On my test with Autoprop, I was between 90/100KPa at 2200 and didn’t hit 120kPa until 2500rpm.
Your test was with fixed prop, and I would expect my pressure would be even lower with a fixed prop.

That’s a significant difference in my book, particularly with a software controlled engine.

For your reference, my no-load (neutral) turbo pressure numbers right now are as follows.

RPM. kPa

1400 0
1600 10
1800 10
2000 10
2200 20
2400 30
2600 30
2800 40
3000 40
3200 50 (WOT)

Can’t have too much data!

Cheers
Dean




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Toe pulley (headsail)

eric freedman
 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Expected RPM at WOT

Porter McRoberts
 

Dean, you and Bill have both come to very similar conclusions and I think they are by far the best fit to explain the circumstances. 
Some “soundthinking” indeed. And very appreciated. 

The other issue I am dealing with is interacting with self described technicians not mechanics. People who look at screens not think about systems.   Nothing against nurses but why I think we still need doctors (when they are doing their jobs well!). 

I appreciate your thinking very much. 

Porter
A54-152


Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 

On Sep 1, 2018, at 9:16 AM, trifin@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Porter,
Further to my last ...

Here’s a scenario...

Let’s assume your boost sensor is reading higher than it should (faulty sensor) or the pressure IS higher than it should be (faulty Turbo?).
Let’s also guess that the software which reads this pressure signal reacts by limiting the rpm from going any higher when some max pressure value is reached, say 120/130kPa. (Seems like a reasonable reaction),

This scenario would produce the symptom you are seeing.

In the no-load situation, the boost pressure does not get high enough to limit the rpm, and it just tops out at 3200 as usual.
In the load situation the pressure (or pressure perceived by the sensor) reaches a maximum limit and the software prevents rpm from going any higher.

This could also explain the Autoprop effect you saw. The AP may have loaded the engine erratically, such that max boost was reached in an instantaneous way because of the erratic load and the software immediately tried to reduce rpm. The smoother load curve of the fixed prop would probably not affect the engine so dramatically.

Guesswork in the dark.

Cheers
Dean


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Expected RPM at WOT

Porter McRoberts
 

Nick. Thanks again. I agree!!  
This is long block #3 for this 1800hr D3
Bill Rouse and I think the devil is in the other parts. The “short block” timing system or electronics. 

Yesterday I compared WOT out of gear: 3200 rpm with no prop but in gear WOT: 3190rpm

 I think this test exonerates all but the engine itself. The only outlier could be the boat itself. But we have a clean hull. Not a barnacle or a growth. So weight??? We’re pretty full. 500 l of fuel but a full load with spares and  scuba tanks an air compressor etc. I think I may do a full water tank test run vs empty water tank test run. See what a 2000 lb difference makes. 

The other issue is Volvo. They’ve gone to ground. I think they are at a loss as well. But zero comms yesterday. It’s the weekend now. I’ll be curious what happens Monday. If anything. 

Thanks again

Porter
A54-152



Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 

On Sep 1, 2018, at 8:37 AM, trifin@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Porter,
This may be nothing, but for completeness I’ll mention it.

You seem to be hitting near max boost rather early, with pressure of 120kPa at 2200 rpm.
On my test with Autoprop, I was between 90/100KPa at 2200 and didn’t hit 120kPa until 2500rpm.
Your test was with fixed prop, and I would expect my pressure would be even lower with a fixed prop.

That’s a significant difference in my book, particularly with a software controlled engine.

For your reference, my no-load (neutral) turbo pressure numbers right now are as follows.

RPM. kPa

1400 0
1600 10
1800 10
2000 10
2200 20
2400 30
2600 30
2800 40
3000 40
3200 50 (WOT)

Can’t have too much data!

Cheers
Dean


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Washing machine removal

Porter McRoberts
 

I’d get 3 bottles. 
One for the machine. 
Two for you!

Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 

On Sep 1, 2018, at 11:24 AM, sharongbrown@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Excellent, thank you very much, just what I was hoping for ... better go find some champagne first, or would that be tempting fate??!!


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Washing machine removal

ya_fohi
 

Excellent, thank you very much, just what I was hoping for ... better go find some champagne first, or would that be tempting fate??!!

16041 - 16060 of 57922