Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: C-drive - Water ingress Oil Level? [1 Attachment]

Rudolf Waldispuehl
 

Thanks a lot Craig and Bill

This is a very valuable information. 
Cheers 
Ruedi Waldispuehl, WASABI A54#55

Von: <amelyachtowners@...> on behalf of "Bill Rouse brouse@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Antworten an: <amelyachtowners@...>
Datum: Samstag, 15. September 2018 um 16:12
An: "amelyachtowners@..." <amelyachtowners@...>
Betreff: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: C-drive - Water ingress Oil Level? [1 Attachment]

 

Ruedi,

Craig's advice is accurate and good.

I have attached a page from my book which details the common mistakes made when servicing the C-Drive.

I hope that this helps you.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970

Any opinions and conclusions expressed in this message are solely those of the author and should not be construed as representing the opinion of an expert. Manufacturers' and Expert's precautions must be considered when dealing with mechanical and/or electrical systems to ensure that you are NOT harmed, and/or the device and/or system is NOT ruined. If in doubt, do not touch any mechanical and/or electrical device or system referred to above.


On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 10:56 PM sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Ruedi,

I sure hope no one has a definitive answer to your question of how long it takes for irreversible damage, which would mean they have experienced such damage.  Ouch $$$

My experiential observation is that the water is quite well emulsified and since this is a very lightly loaded assembly (by industrial standards) the answer is "a fairly long time". 

I had very milky oil a few years back and did not haul out for 6 months. When I did, the oil was still emulsified, with no separation of water and oil.  I then disassembled the lower unit of the "C" drive, removing all bearings, gears and drive shaft. They were all in pristine, like-new condition with not one trace of corrosion or wear. 

Regarding your second question, that your oil level is constant suggests that as water is coming in the oil is going out (to sea). That is, the seals are failing allowing a (minor) free flow of fluids back and forth.

Hope this is informative - I don't think you need to treat it as a Mayday -  maybe a sécurité..

Craig Briggs, SN68 Sangaris, Brunswick, GA

---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

I made the following observation with the C-Drive (OIL-level).

 

Maybe you have experienced the same/similar situation? 

I changed shaft-seals and bearing in April 2018 and made about 150 hours on Engine since then.  At the beginning within the first 15-20 hours I discovered more oil (to the top) after pushing the engine on high refs for a while.

A small amount went over because the cap was leaking and not tightening very close. I was thinking it’s just the expansion of the oil, which got hot due to high refs.. 

 

After that from 20-150 hours the oil level staid constant between min/max and color was normal as usual so everything seemed correct. 

 

Recently at around 160 hours the oil color was not so clear anymore but oil level remained the same. Oil is cloudy (very little milky) and the texture is still like pure oil.

 

I know and I’m quite sure that the situation looks like that the seals leaking and I got seawater ingress. That’s why the oil is a bit milky. 

 

Any Idea why the oil level staid constant, so no rising oil level anymore?

Did the water ingress stopped somehow? If yes, how long can I go with this?

 

I think it is still necessary to haul out and change seals and oil as soon as possible. 

 

What is your knowledge and experiences about water in the C-drive. How long I can wait and how fast is the c-drive irreversible damaged?

Would be great to get some comment from other experienced AMEL owners.

 

Thanks for advice 

Ruedi 

SY WASABI A54-#55



Re: Volvo engine RPM

Craig Briggs
 

Bill,
Spot on. Also applies to the Perkins Prima M50 on SN's. 
Craig


---In amelyachtowners@..., <greatketch@...> wrote :

The gearbox attached to the Volvo TMD22 normally is put in REVERSE when sailing.  This locks the shaft from turning.

If sailed with the transmission in NEUTRAL, the shaft MIGHT spin, depending on the propeller used, but this will not hurt the transmission.  If you have a shaft alternator fitted, this is how it would be used.

The boat should never be sailed with the transmission in FORWARD.  If the shaft spins, (and this depends on the details of the fitted propeller) it will damage the clutches inside the transmission.

This applies to the HBW250 transmission, also known as the ZF25M.  

The ZF25 hydraulic transmission is a very different beast.  I believe all those on Amels were fitted with shaft brakes.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA


---In amelyachtowners@..., <agav8ter@...> wrote :

When sailing did you have the transmission in gear?  Our Amel ser.# 266 never had any turns while sailing and the transmission in gear.


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Switch Press button for older Lofrans Tigres windlass

svsunnyside
 

Hello Kent
I am not sure what Amel used on "later SM’s  "   but due to the very little space between the aluminum motor cover and the motor itself , very few switch model can be used avoiding to short the switch posts.
For the above reason and because of the very good quality of the switch, I think Amel used the same. 

Regards
Gabriele
Maramu # 219

On Saturday, 15 September 2018, 20:10:46 GMT-4, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:


 

Is that the same switch used on later SM’s?


Thanks
Kent
SM 243
Kristy




On Saturday, September 15, 2018, 7:47 PM, Gabriele Antolini svsunnyside@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 

I saw several times Amelians asking information about this part:

Producer:  Britax PMG Limited UK
Description:  Britax Switch Press Button
Part # :  13340100 (70468080)
Price   : Best found 22,17 EUR , elparts , ebay.de

This is exactly what Amel used on my Maramu #219 , Year 1987
Hoping it is useful to someone.

Regards
Gabriele Antolini
Maramu #219


Re: Volvo engine RPM

greatketch@...
 

The gearbox attached to the Volvo TMD22 normally is put in REVERSE when sailing.  This locks the shaft from turning.

If sailed with the transmission in NEUTRAL, the shaft MIGHT spin, depending on the propeller used, but this will not hurt the transmission.  If you have a shaft alternator fitted, this is how it would be used.

The boat should never be sailed with the transmission in FORWARD.  If the shaft spins, (and this depends on the details of the fitted propeller) it will damage the clutches inside the transmission.

This applies to the HBW250 transmission, also known as the ZF25M.  

The ZF25 hydraulic transmission is a very different beast.  I believe all those on Amels were fitted with shaft brakes.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA


---In amelyachtowners@..., <agav8ter@...> wrote :

When sailing did you have the transmission in gear?  Our Amel ser.# 266 never had any turns while sailing and the transmission in gear.


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Switch Press button for older Lofrans Tigres windlass

karkauai
 

Is that the same switch used on later SM’s?

Thanks
Kent
SM 243
Kristy




On Saturday, September 15, 2018, 7:47 PM, Gabriele Antolini svsunnyside@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 

I saw several times Amelians asking information about this part:

Producer:  Britax PMG Limited UK
Description:  Britax Switch Press Button
Part # :  13340100 (70468080)
Price   : Best found 22,17 EUR , elparts , ebay.de

This is exactly what Amel used on my Maramu #219 , Year 1987
Hoping it is useful to someone.

Regards
Gabriele Antolini
Maramu #219


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Brunswick Landing Marina

karkauai
 

Morningstar at St Simons is nice, but exposed to a pretty long open fetch to the South.  Brunswick Landing is much better protected in event of a storm.  I’d check on height of dock pilings there before I planned to ride out a storm with significant surge.
Kent
SM 243
Kristy



On Saturday, September 15, 2018, 1:06 PM, Courtney Gorman Itsfun1@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 

Are you sure you didn’t mean Morningstar Marina st simons 


On Sep 14, 2018, at 6:22 AM, 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Brunswick Landing Marina is a great spot however, don’t forget just two years ago it was almost wiped out by Hurricane Matthew. Those floating docks to which you are currently tied came with one foot of floating away. Had the storm hit at high-tide the outcome for boats there would have been very different.

 

I have come to the opinion there is no such thing as an excellent hurricane hole.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Bonaire

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 2:07 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] S/V Rascal

 

 

Not only free 🍺 24/7 (great with your morning shower) but free happy hours 6-9 M-W-F. For what more could sailors ask?

Former Navy hurricane hole, too,



We can have a mini-Amel rendezvous to make up for it being unlikely to make it to St. Michaels by boat (may have to drive).



Craig & Katherine

SN 68 Sangaris at Brunswick Landing Marina, GA for the duration.


---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

Brunswick Landing Marina is an excellent hurricane hole they have nice facilities and free 🍺 

Courtney 

svTrippin

Grenada 🇬🇩 

 

On Sep 12, 2018, at 9:22 AM, John Clark john.biohead@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Rick,  if you run south I would go all the way down to Florida.  Some predictions have Florence making a weird turn south all the way to Savanna before going ashore.

 

John

SV Annie SM37

Chaguramas Trinidad

 

On Tue, Sep 11, 2018, 10:29 PM rickgrimes1@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Hello Amel Friends,

With mixed feelings about selling, we recently asked you to identify anyone you knew who might be interested in buying Rascal.  Happily, we received a number of inquiries and had a contract soon thereafter. 

However, we couldn’t come to agreement on price and the buyer reneged.  So we are happy to keep sailing until a serious buyer comes along—perhaps referred to us by one of you.  Updated details about Rascal can be seen here.  

Rascal is berthed at the Charleston City Marina, SC though we are likely to leave tomorrow morning to flee the wrath of Hurricane Florence!

 

Rick and Linda Grimes

ASM2K #404

 

 

 

 

 


Switch Press button for older Lofrans Tigres windlass

svsunnyside
 

I saw several times Amelians asking information about this part:

Producer:  Britax PMG Limited UK
Description:  Britax Switch Press Button
Part # :  13340100 (70468080)
Price   : Best found 22,17 EUR , elparts , ebay.de

This is exactly what Amel used on my Maramu #219 , Year 1987
Hoping it is useful to someone.

Regards
Gabriele Antolini
Maramu #219


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Grease for oil seals

Craig Briggs
 

How strange!  I wrote the post below yesterday because my first one had not appeared. Now, 2 days later they have both appeared. Oh well.
Cheers, Craig SN68


---In amelyachtowners@..., <sangaris@...> wrote :

Bill,
Yes, it was, but I didn't ask the question.
Cheers, Craig

---In amelyachtowners@..., <brouse@...> wrote :
Craig,
My answer was appropriate.
Best,
CW Bill Rouse
Admiral,

On Thu, Sep 13, 2018 at 8:42 PM sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Bill - believe that was Pat#123's question.

---In amelyachtowners@..., <brouse@...> wrote :

Craig,

I suggest sticking with waterproof grease, unless you find out specifically what type of silicone grease Amel has been using lately in Martinique. There are many different kinds of silicone grease.

Best,

CW Bill RouseOn Wed, Sep 12, 2018, 20:14 sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

I am going in install three new oils seals and a new wear bushing . I have for years been using wheel bearing grease,I have never had any leaks. However, I saw a mention of silicone grease being used. Would that be better ,is this what is supposed to be used?

Thanks,

Pat 

SM#123


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Brunswick Landing Marina

Courtney Gorman
 

Are you sure you didn’t mean Morningstar Marina st simons 


On Sep 14, 2018, at 6:22 AM, 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Brunswick Landing Marina is a great spot however, don’t forget just two years ago it was almost wiped out by Hurricane Matthew. Those floating docks to which you are currently tied came with one foot of floating away. Had the storm hit at high-tide the outcome for boats there would have been very different.

 

I have come to the opinion there is no such thing as an excellent hurricane hole.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Bonaire

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 2:07 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] S/V Rascal

 

 

Not only free 🍺 24/7 (great with your morning shower) but free happy hours 6-9 M-W-F. For what more could sailors ask?

Former Navy hurricane hole, too,



We can have a mini-Amel rendezvous to make up for it being unlikely to make it to St. Michaels by boat (may have to drive).



Craig & Katherine

SN 68 Sangaris at Brunswick Landing Marina, GA for the duration.


---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

Brunswick Landing Marina is an excellent hurricane hole they have nice facilities and free 🍺 

Courtney 

svTrippin

Grenada 🇬🇩 

 

On Sep 12, 2018, at 9:22 AM, John Clark john.biohead@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Rick,  if you run south I would go all the way down to Florida.  Some predictions have Florence making a weird turn south all the way to Savanna before going ashore.

 

John

SV Annie SM37

Chaguramas Trinidad

 

On Tue, Sep 11, 2018, 10:29 PM rickgrimes1@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Hello Amel Friends,

With mixed feelings about selling, we recently asked you to identify anyone you knew who might be interested in buying Rascal.  Happily, we received a number of inquiries and had a contract soon thereafter. 

However, we couldn’t come to agreement on price and the buyer reneged.  So we are happy to keep sailing until a serious buyer comes along—perhaps referred to us by one of you.  Updated details about Rascal can be seen here.  

Rascal is berthed at the Charleston City Marina, SC though we are likely to leave tomorrow morning to flee the wrath of Hurricane Florence!

 

Rick and Linda Grimes

ASM2K #404

 

 

 

 

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] New Bimini [1 Attachment]

Paul Osterberg
 

Bill is right about the durability of of the original Birmini, spray hood, but we shose to design our own. We found that it got very hot below the original one and visibility was poor when entering a harbor.
We increased the hight and put in see through panel's that we can open for very good visibility and it greatly enhance the cockpit environmental. We were very pleased with the solution. There are photos on in the photo section search for Kerpa and you find it
Paul on SY Kerpa SM 259


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: C-drive - Water ingress Oil Level?

 

Ruedi,

Craig's advice is accurate and good.

I have attached a page from my book which details the common mistakes made when servicing the C-Drive.

I hope that this helps you.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970

Any opinions and conclusions expressed in this message are solely those of the author and should not be construed as representing the opinion of an expert. Manufacturers' and Expert's precautions must be considered when dealing with mechanical and/or electrical systems to ensure that you are NOT harmed, and/or the device and/or system is NOT ruined. If in doubt, do not touch any mechanical and/or electrical device or system referred to above.


On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 10:56 PM sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Ruedi,

I sure hope no one has a definitive answer to your question of how long it takes for irreversible damage, which would mean they have experienced such damage.  Ouch $$$

My experiential observation is that the water is quite well emulsified and since this is a very lightly loaded assembly (by industrial standards) the answer is "a fairly long time". 

I had very milky oil a few years back and did not haul out for 6 months. When I did, the oil was still emulsified, with no separation of water and oil.  I then disassembled the lower unit of the "C" drive, removing all bearings, gears and drive shaft. They were all in pristine, like-new condition with not one trace of corrosion or wear. 

Regarding your second question, that your oil level is constant suggests that as water is coming in the oil is going out (to sea). That is, the seals are failing allowing a (minor) free flow of fluids back and forth.

Hope this is informative - I don't think you need to treat it as a Mayday -  maybe a sécurité..

Craig Briggs, SN68 Sangaris, Brunswick, GA

---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

I made the following observation with the C-Drive (OIL-level).

 

Maybe you have experienced the same/similar situation? 

I changed shaft-seals and bearing in April 2018 and made about 150 hours on Engine since then.  At the beginning within the first 15-20 hours I discovered more oil (to the top) after pushing the engine on high refs for a while.

A small amount went over because the cap was leaking and not tightening very close. I was thinking it’s just the expansion of the oil, which got hot due to high refs.. 

 

After that from 20-150 hours the oil level staid constant between min/max and color was normal as usual so everything seemed correct. 

 

Recently at around 160 hours the oil color was not so clear anymore but oil level remained the same. Oil is cloudy (very little milky) and the texture is still like pure oil.

 

I know and I’m quite sure that the situation looks like that the seals leaking and I got seawater ingress. That’s why the oil is a bit milky. 

 

Any Idea why the oil level staid constant, so no rising oil level anymore?

Did the water ingress stopped somehow? If yes, how long can I go with this?

 

I think it is still necessary to haul out and change seals and oil as soon as possible. 

 

What is your knowledge and experiences about water in the C-drive. How long I can wait and how fast is the c-drive irreversible damaged?

Would be great to get some comment from other experienced AMEL owners.

 

Thanks for advice 

Ruedi 

SY WASABI A54-#55



Re: Volvo engine RPM

Ag Av8ter
 

When sailing did you have the transmission in gear?  Our Amel ser.# 266 never had any turns while sailing and the transmission in gear.


Re: Volvo engine RPM

greatketch@...
 


Ahmet,

The engine speed for the Volvo TMD22 in a Super Maramu should run close to 3000 RPM at full throttle, with a clean hull and bottom. This should move the boat at 8 knots in calm water.

Most people seem to cruise at between 6 and 7 knots and 2000 to 2500 RPM.

It is important to note that this is slower maximum engine rpm than the specifications published by Volvo. This was a deliberate decision by Amel to have the engine run quieter and last longer.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA


---In amelyachtowners@..., <ahmetkipcak@...> wrote :

I would like to say hello to everybody and thanks for very helpful info sharing here.
I bought my Amel 1999 six mounts ago, My engine Volvo TMD 22, 1999, 2500hours.
I would like to learn what average engine rpm should I see with max power with clean auto prop propeller.
When I was sailing with engine off, still I observed slow turn in drive shaft, is this normal for auto prop properler.

Thanks for your help


Ahmet KİPCAK


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] New Bimini [1 Attachment]

James
 

Thanks Bill. I’ve just asked her if she’s still got it.. hopefully I’ve not left it too late!

James


Volvo engine RPM

ahmet kipcak
 

I would like to say hello to everybody and thanks for very helpful info sharing here.
I bought my Amel 1999 six mounts ago, My engine Volvo TMD 22, 1999, 2500hours.
I would like to learn what average engine rpm should I see with max power with clean auto prop propeller.
When I was sailing with engine off, still I observed slow turn in drive shaft, is this normal for auto prop properler.

Thanks for your help


Ahmet KİPCAK


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Grease for oil seals

Craig Briggs
 

Yes, Bill, an excellent answer, but I didn't ask the question. I think Pat did.
Cheers, Craig

--In amelyachtowners@..., <brouse@...> wrote :
Craig,
My answer was appropriate.
Best,
CW Bill Rouse

On Thu, Sep 13, 2018 at 8:42 PM sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Bill - believe that was Pat#123's question.



---In amelyachtowners@..., <brouse@...> wrote :

Craig,

I suggest sticking with waterproof grease, unless you find out specifically what type of silicone grease Amel has been using lately in Martinique. There are many different kinds of silicone grease.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
On Wed, Sep 12, 2018, 20:14 sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

I am going in install three new oils seals and a new wear bushing . I have for years been using wheel bearing grease,I have never had any leaks. However, I saw a mention of silicone grease being used. Would that be better ,is this what is supposed to be used?

Thanks,

Pat 

SM#123


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] MaxProp Zincs [1 Attachment]

Patrick McAneny
 

Bill , Very timely as I am going to install my new Max prop this week. I purchased three zinc from PYI, along with the prop, and I took notice of the frame,good idea. They told me that the new Amels are coming with Max props,had not heard that.??


-----Original Message-----
From: greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Fri, Sep 14, 2018 12:41 pm
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] MaxProp Zincs [1 Attachment]

 
[Attachment(s) from greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] included below]
For those of you who have older SM's with MaxProps, and who use zincs on the prop...

Frequently you will hear complaints about either premature loss of the zinc, or having it come loose from two for the attachment bolts and spinning around--wildly out of balance.  This could happen in theory if the anode was simply a chunk of cast zinc, but this should never happen, if you get properly made anodes.  What is "proper"?  There is an internal non-zinc frame cast into the zinc that the bolts go through.  Basically, this secures the zinc until it is nearly all gone.

Here is a photo of a "proper" zinc anode at the very end of its useful life, and maybe a little past it, that clearly shows the internal frame.  This was a Martyr brand zinc. Even though rather eroded, it is still tightly secured against the metal face of the prop as it should be and doing its job.

Unfortunately, I know of no way to be sure ahead of time that the frame is actually there...  It is not magnetic, and is completely buried inside the casting when it is fresh.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Battery Compartment Explosion

Willem Kroes
 

Hi all Amel sailors,

Just a few comments about Lithium Ferro Phosphate (LFP) batteries. I installed this year early May 8  batteries at 12 V with 100 Ah capacity each in the existing Amel configuration forming a 24V bank with 400 Ah capacity. Dimensions of the batteries: 329*171*235mm; so a bit higher than the lead/acid Freedom batteries Amel installed. I had to cut 2 cm from the bar below the lid of the battery compartment. I did this on the upper side, so this change is only noticeable when you take measures. Other battery specifications:

·         nominal voltage = operating voltage 12,8V

·         charging voltage: 14,6V

·         internal impedance: < 150 mΩ

·         maximum continuous charge: current: 1C = 100A

·         maximum continuous discharge current: 1,5C = 150A

·         standard charge, constant current: 0,2C5A, constant voltage 14,6V and 0,02C cut off (by the BMS)

·         standard discharge, constant current 0,2 C5A, end voltage: 10.0V (cut off by the BMS)

·         operating temperature range: charge: 0 – 45, o C discharge:  -10 – 65 o C

·         can be wired in series up to 28V and unlimited in parallel

·         built-in Battery Management System (BMS) protects cells against excessively high and low voltages, high currents, short circuits and excessive heat and cold

·         automatic cell balancing by the BMS which reduces the charging rate in cells that have been topped off first, letting the rest of the cells catch up

·         battery holds its charge for up to a year without a load,; so no need for a trickle charger

The manufacturer in China claims that it is a ‘drop-in replacement’ for lead acid batteries. In my opinion, this claim is not correct. The reason for this is that it is important to keep charge and discharge currents within the parameters set for the batteries. For example: if you use the standard 55 or 100A alternators on the Super Maramu and leave the dock with almost full batteries, the current will go down when the batteries are above 98% and even more down, may be charging only 1 or 2 amps at 100%. A normal behaviour with lead acid batteries. But with LFP batteries the BMS will cut off the charge when the batteries are 100%. This will have the same effect as turning the ignition switch off with a running engine. It is likely that the diodes of the regulator of the alternator will not survive. So it is essential to have a regulator that turns off the charging current when the LFP-batteries are charged 100%.

Another possible problem is excessive heat of the alternator with the risk of burning. This, because the internal resistance of LFP-batteries is much lower than lead/acid batteries. On Aquarius this problem will be, I think, almost absent because there is a 100A alternator and a battery bank of 200 Ah. But if you stay with the same nominal battery bank of 400 Ah and you have the standard 55A alternator without any high temperature shut off feature installed, then the risk of burning your alternator will be present. The alternator will perform at maximum capacity for hours if the discharge rate of the batteries is considerable. With lead/acid batteries the normal discharge rate will be not much less than 65% and even after motoring 1 hour you will notice a considerable decrease of charging current. This is because the internal resistance of the battery bank goes up very quickly after being charged at 75% of its capacity. With LFP batteries you need a regulator that decreases or stops the charging current when the temperature of the alternator becomes too high.

 

Also the battery charger has to be programmed to match the new LFP-battery bank. Most modern chargers will do the job. On my boat ‘Kavanga’ SM#351 there is a Mastervolt Chargemaster 24/60 installed and this charger can be programmed to match the specifications of the LFP-battery bank with ease. The old backup 30A Dolphin can’t be programmed. The only thing is to set the internal dip switch to ‘gel-batteries’ and turn the ‘pot meter’ regulating the charging voltage to its maximum setting. Under normal conditions (discharging not more than 60%, the Dolphin will not start charging. But by switching the microwave on for a minute or so, voltage will drop under the level for activating the Dolphin. Once activated with this trick, the old Dolphin charger will continue with charging until the batteries reach around 98%. I suppose that placing two or three diodes in the measuring cable of the Dolphin, it will start charging if activated by the on/of switch on the 230V AC panel.

For the alternator I decided, being during the wintertime in the Netherlands and the boat in NW-Spain, to buy a new Prestolite 55A, 24 alternator and a Mastervolt dealer took out the internal regulator and connected in stead a Mastervolt Alpha Pro external regulator programmed for the LFP-batteries. The Alpha Pro has also a connection for a temperature sensor and this sensor is connected by a big hose clamp to the house of the Prestolite alternator. The Alpha Pro is programmed to cut the current when the alternator’s temperature rises over 115 o C.

The Mastervolt dealer also provided me with a scheme for the connections on board. The only problem turned out to be the relay for the activation of the Alpha Pro. This had to be a 24 V relay, not withstanding the engine is started by a 12V  starter. The reason is that the relay is also connected to the 24 V cable. The first installed 12V relay burned after 36 hours of engine running. After changing to a 24 relay the whole system worked perfectly during a several months of cruising.

This configuration ensures that under normal conditions the parameters of the LFP-battery bank of charging and discharging will not be exceeded. So the BMS cut off charging feature will not be activated. Nevertheless I also installed a Sterling alternator protector. It’s not expensive (around 55 euro) and will protect the alternator if the connection to the batteries is suddenly interrupted.

Finally the purchase of the LFP-batteries. These batteries are very expensive in Europe and what I heard, also in the USA. The Sterling company is selling the 100 Ah 12V LFP-battery (33 cm format) for £1200 each. So I spend some time looking at the Chinese Alibaba’s website for manufactures of LFP-batteries providing comparable specifications. It took some time, but in the end I found a company making these batteries with a CE certificate and selling these for a price around 400 US dollars each. With shipping cost, import duty and European VAT paid, the 8 batteries cost me around 4000 Euro in total. A lot of money compared to the price of 8 lead/acid marine batteries (1000-1200 Euro) in the Netherlands, but offering about half the weight, double usable amp hours, much faster charging and hopefully 5 to 8 times the life expectancy of traditional batteries.

After one  season I am very satisfied by the performance of the LFP-batteries. I can’t tell anything about the claim of the manufacturer that the batteries have a service life (not less than 85 á 90% of the nominal capacity) after 2000 cycles or more.  I hope this will turn out to be true.

Willem Kroes

SM2K #351  KAVANGA


Re: C-drive - Water ingress Oil Level?

Craig Briggs
 

Hi Ruedi,

I sure hope no one has a definitive answer to your question of how long it takes for irreversible damage, which would mean they have experienced such damage.  Ouch $$$

My experiential observation is that the water is quite well emulsified and since this is a very lightly loaded assembly (by industrial standards) the answer is "a fairly long time". 

I had very milky oil a few years back and did not haul out for 6 months. When I did, the oil was still emulsified, with no separation of water and oil.  I then disassembled the lower unit of the "C" drive, removing all bearings, gears and drive shaft. They were all in pristine, like-new condition with not one trace of corrosion or wear. 

Regarding your second question, that your oil level is constant suggests that as water is coming in the oil is going out (to sea). That is, the seals are failing allowing a (minor) free flow of fluids back and forth.

Hope this is informative - I don't think you need to treat it as a Mayday -  maybe a sécurité..

Craig Briggs, SN68 Sangaris, Brunswick, GA

---In amelyachtowners@..., <Rudolf@...> wrote :

I made the following observation with the C-Drive (OIL-level).

 

Maybe you have experienced the same/similar situation? 

I changed shaft-seals and bearing in April 2018 and made about 150 hours on Engine since then.  At the beginning within the first 15-20 hours I discovered more oil (to the top) after pushing the engine on high refs for a while.

A small amount went over because the cap was leaking and not tightening very close. I was thinking it’s just the expansion of the oil, which got hot due to high refs.. 

 

After that from 20-150 hours the oil level staid constant between min/max and color was normal as usual so everything seemed correct. 

 

Recently at around 160 hours the oil color was not so clear anymore but oil level remained the same. Oil is cloudy (very little milky) and the texture is still like pure oil.

 

I know and I’m quite sure that the situation looks like that the seals leaking and I got seawater ingress. That’s why the oil is a bit milky. 

 

Any Idea why the oil level staid constant, so no rising oil level anymore?

Did the water ingress stopped somehow? If yes, how long can I go with this?

 

I think it is still necessary to haul out and change seals and oil as soon as possible. 

 

What is your knowledge and experiences about water in the C-drive. How long I can wait and how fast is the c-drive irreversible damaged?

Would be great to get some comment from other experienced AMEL owners.

 

Thanks for advice 

Ruedi 

SY WASABI A54-#55



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Grease for oil seals

Craig Briggs
 

Bill,
Yes, it was, but I didn't ask the question.
Cheers, Craig

---In amelyachtowners@..., <brouse@...> wrote :
Craig,
My answer was appropriate.
Best,
CW Bill Rouse
Admiral,

On Thu, Sep 13, 2018 at 8:42 PM sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Bill - believe that was Pat#123's question.

---In amelyachtowners@..., <brouse@...> wrote :

Craig,

I suggest sticking with waterproof grease, unless you find out specifically what type of silicone grease Amel has been using lately in Martinique. There are many different kinds of silicone grease.

Best,

CW Bill RouseOn Wed, Sep 12, 2018, 20:14 sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

I am going in install three new oils seals and a new wear bushing . I have for years been using wheel bearing grease,I have never had any leaks. However, I saw a mention of silicone grease being used. Would that be better ,is this what is supposed to be used?

Thanks,

Pat 

SM#123

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