Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Ballooner Not Locking [1 Attachment]

Ann-Sofie Svanberg <kanalmamman@...>
 

Take a look at the file "Changing ball bearings ...". We had the same problem on Lady Annila a few years ago. The file I reffer to shows all parts and what was wrong with ours. Maybe it could help you.

Regards
Annsofie at S/Y Lady Annila, SM232, 1998

Skickat från min iPad

19 okt. 2018 kl. 00:18 skrev Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@xtra.co.nz [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>:



Hi. I attach a photo of the swivel with the tongue beside it. Second try.

Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 19 October 2018 at 07:02 "Danny Simms sailorman.ds@gmail.com [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:





Hi Bill,
further to my last. The reason it won't be over the slot is because the tongue I described being worn off. I struggled with the same problem before it was pointed out to me by another amelian.
Regards
Danny
SM 299
Ocean Pearl

On Fri, 19 Oct 2018 at 04:37, greatketch@yahoo.com<mailto:greatketch@yahoo.com> [amelyachtowners] < amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com<mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:


Ian,

I have found one issue you might have a look at. I am sure there are others that people with more Amel time than I have come across.

I haven't noticed it being sensitive to the exact height on the foil, although I haven't tested it much in that regard.

If latch actually works with all the parts in hand, it might be an alignment issue. Keep the lashing line from the head of the genoa very short, and be sure that the head swivel is rotating smoothly. You want to be sure that the latch stays directly over the proper slot in the foil. If it rotates off center a bit it doesn't latch.

Bill Kinney
Sm160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA




---In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com<mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>, <sv_freespirit@...> wrote :

The last few times I have used my ballooner it has failed to lock into
the swivel. The halyard run looks normal and I have tried various
rotational positions other than the recommended one of the slot facing
dead aft. It still refuses to lock. I am wondering if the swivel should
be lower to offset the rearwards departure of the halyard as the hook
nears the top? I could only lower the genoa by a few inches before it
touches the pulpit rails. I have tried both my nylon and aluminium hooks
with and without the sail attached. The mousetrap on the swivel looks
and functions normally, or did a few weeks ago when I had the genoa down
after the problem first appeared.

Any thoughts please? I love using this sail.

Ian Shepherd SM2K 414 Crusader (2003)












<20181019_072909.jpg>


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Companionway ( washboard ) rubber seal replacement?

Beaute Olivier
 

Hello again,

I read Craig's post and my last message was probably not clear enough.
Once full of water (as per the test we made at AMEL) a Super Maramu's cockpit  (when we unplugged the drain holes) drains in 75 seconds.
So, if the cockpit is flooded by a big wave, the water will not stay long enough to bring too much water in the hatch box. But some water may enter the engine room and the lockers (at least through the locking pin holes).

Feel safe and dry, this cockpit is not so much exposed as a stern cockpit.

Olivier

On Tuesday, October 23, 2018, 10:36:06 AM GMT+2, lokiyawl2 lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:


 

Bill Kinney,

   Thanks, that is exactly the information that I was looking for.  I don't mind changing the lip seal when the flocking wears away.  The non silicone wax also sounds like a great idea that I will adopt. 

   Best,

James Alton
SV Sueno,  Maramu #220
La Maddelena, Italy



Sent from Samsung tablet.

-------- Original message --------
From: "greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]"
Date: 10/23/18 05:05 (GMT+01:00)
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Companionway ( washboard ) rubber seal replacement?

 


James,

The original seal was what the autobody people call a "dew wipe" for a car window, the part that is supposed to squeegee off film of dew when you roll the window down. As Mike described, they had a "felt" or "flocking" on them.  I suspect that this has long since warn off even the newest of the factory original installations on SMs.  With the "flocking" intact, on the hard, smooth varnish we don't see "chattering" of the rubber on the moving slide.  

Right now, our seal is getting old again, and the flocking has worn off--in spots.  Those bare rubber spots are starting to "grab" a bit.  Time for a new seal...

Wax helps a lot on the smooth operation of the whole system.  Helps the varnish last longer, and look better too.

P.S. It has been pointed out to me that I screwed up... forgetting to move from radius to diameter.  The equivalent round hole to a 2mm x 750 mm gap is 22mm in radius, so 44mm in diameter.  Four times the area, and water flow for your calculations. I really doubt there is a condition where it would ever sink anybody's boat, but the "box" the slide goes down into on my boat is lined with a pile fabric. I just don't want any drips in there so things can grow.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA


---In ame lyachtowners@..., wrote :

Bill Kinney,

   You make some very good points.  A 22mm hole at a 1' head could flow around 615 GPH if my calculations are correct so there could be conditions where this could allow a lot of water into the boat.  I certainly hope to never encounter the conditions that Eric has.   One of the primary functions of a boat imo is to keep water on the outside and this seems to me to be a good way to reduce intrusion.  I second your concerns about silicones which can be impossible to finish over if they soak into bare wood.  Customers have brought boats to us to refinish the interior varnishwork and some where furniture polish was used were impossible to recoat,  nothing but fish eyes no matter how much cleaning we did. On the other hand some boats that also had furniture polis h used on them were fine to refinish and I never determined which products had silicone or in them and which were safe so I just revarnish when needed. 

    The varnish on the slider I imagine gives you a nice sealed and fairly hard surface for the wiper to rub on.  Does the wiper ever chatter as you raise and lower the slider?  I need to reface or replace my door and will go with varnish as well.  


Have a safe trip back South.

James Alton
SV Sueno,  Maramu #220
La Maddelena Island,  Italy

   


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Companionway ( washboard ) rubber seal replacement?

James Alton
 

Bill Kinney,

   Thanks, that is exactly the information that I was looking for.  I don't mind changing the lip seal when the flocking wears away.  The non silicone wax also sounds like a great idea that I will adopt. 

   Best,

James Alton
SV Sueno,  Maramu #220
La Maddelena, Italy



Sent from Samsung tablet.

-------- Original message --------
From: "greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Date: 10/23/18 05:05 (GMT+01:00)
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Companionway ( washboard ) rubber seal replacement?

 


James,

The original seal was what the autobody people call a "dew wipe" for a car window, the part that is supposed to squeegee off film of dew when you roll the window down. As Mike described, they had a "felt" or "flocking" on them.  I suspect that this has long since warn off even the newest of the factory original installations on SMs.  With the "flocking" intact, on the hard, smooth varnish we don't see "chattering" of the rubber on the moving slide.  

Right now, our seal is getting old again, and the flocking has worn off--in spots.  Those bare rubber spots are starting to "grab" a bit.  Time for a new seal...

Wax helps a lot on the smooth operation of the whole system.  Helps the varnish last longer, and look better too.

P.S. It has been pointed out to me that I screwed up... forgetting to move from radius to diameter.  The equivalent round hole to a 2mm x 750 mm gap is 22mm in radius, so 44mm in diameter.  Four times the area, and water flow for your calculations. I really doubt there is a condition where it would ever sink anybody's boat, but the "box" the slide goes down into on my boat is lined with a pile fabric. I just don't want any drips in there so things can grow.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA


---In ame lyachtowners@..., <lokiyawl2@...> wrote :

Bill Kinney,

   You make some very good points.  A 22mm hole at a 1' head could flow around 615 GPH if my calculations are correct so there could be conditions where this could allow a lot of water into the boat.  I certainly hope to never encounter the conditions that Eric has.   One of the primary functions of a boat imo is to keep water on the outside and this seems to me to be a good way to reduce intrusion.  I second your concerns about silicones which can be impossible to finish over if they soak into bare wood.  Customers have brought boats to us to refinish the interior varnishwork and some where furniture polish was used were impossible to recoat,  nothing but fish eyes no matter how much cleaning we did. On the other hand some boats that also had furniture polis h used on them were fine to refinish and I never determined which products had silicone or in them and which were safe so I just revarnish when needed. 

    The varnish on the slider I imagine gives you a nice sealed and fairly hard surface for the wiper to rub on.  Does the wiper ever chatter as you raise and lower the slider?  I need to reface or replace my door and will go with varnish as well.  


Have a safe trip back South.

James Alton
SV Sueno,  Maramu #220
La Maddelena Island,  Italy

   


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] EPIRB mounting location

eric freedman
 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Companionway ( washboard ) rubber seal replacement?

James Alton
 

Oliver,

   Many thanks for the confirmation of the drain holes for the companionway slider box being part of the original construction.  When I first got my Amel,  I noticed that a small amount of water, perhaps a quart that would collect in the bilge area under the steps if I was not careful to avoid spraying the compaionway slider while washing the boat. ( The licker seal on my boat currently is in poor shape and needs replacement by the way)  I investigated the inside of the slider box and initially it appeared to be sealed but after some careful cleaning I discovered two small drain holes around one quarter of an inch that were completely plugged with dirt that had collected over the years exactly as you described might be the case.  The holes were drilled at the extreme outboard ends of the slider box and angle down through the engine room bulkhead, exactly the position needed to drain all of the water from the box.   Once those holes were cleared, the leakage from spraying the compaionway slider completely went away despite my bad licker seal.  I will soon replace the licker seal and make keeping those drain holes open a part of my normal maitenance.  Thank you Amel for installing the huge cockpit drains and also for installing the sliding companionway door instead of using drop boards!

All the best,
James



Sent from Samsung tablet.

-------- Original message --------
From: "Beaute Olivier atlanticyachtsurvey@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Date: 10/22/18 20:14 (GMT+01:00)
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Companionway ( washboard ) rubber seal replacement?

 

Hello proud owners of AMEL dry boats,

from Sharki to AMEL 54, the companionway hatch slides into a wooden "box" that collects the potential water that could flow between the rubber "licker" seal and the wooden hatch. This box is sealed and drains into the engine room bilge, unless the draining hole is stuffed with dust and small particles.
You can get access to the bottom of this box if you remove the wooden board at the bottom of the hatch (secured with a few screws). Then you can lift the hatch up to hitting the dodger, and have a look inside (and clean it).

So..., very little chance for this water to flood the vessel.
What if your cockpit is flooded by a wave?

When the SM was in production, we made once a test of draining the cockpit (thanks to the cockpit drains). We clogged all possible holes in the cockpit, plugged both cockpit drains and filled it up with water u p to the backseats tops. Guess how much time it took to drain the cockpit?
Answer in two days.

All that said, it is good to keep the licker seal (originally a RENAULT cars part for opening windows) in good condition. I'm not sure Maud can still supply those...

Olivier

On Monday, October 22, 2018, 4:07:19 PM GMT+2, sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 

Hi James,

Wow, that's some scary arithmetic, which I'm sure is correct. If you've got a 1 foot head of water on your companionway hatch for an hour (let's see, that's like over the cockpit seats), uh, I think you've got bigger worries than some water below. And, the least of your worries might be that the weatherstripping could in no way handle that load and will have bent open, 
Then again, the weatherstripping is a fine idea that "the Captain" had, notwithstanding shorter-lived companionway plywood and the need to have a dark interior with it closed. 
Cheers, Craig SN68


---In amelyachtowners@..., <lokiyawl2@...> wrote :

Bill Kinney,

&n bsp;  You make some very good points.  A 22mm hole at a 1' head could flow around 615 GPH if my calculations are correct so there could be conditions where this could allow a lot of water into the boat.  I certainly hope to never encounter the conditions that Eric has.   One of the primary functions of a boat imo is to keep water on the outside and this seems to me to be a good way to reduce intrusion.  I second your concerns about silicones which can be impossible to finish over if they soak into bare wood.  Customers have brought boats to us to refinish the interior varnishwork and some where furniture polish was used were impossible to recoat,  nothing but fish eyes no matter how much cleaning we did. On the other hand some boats that also had furniture polish used on them were fine to refinish and I never determined which products had silicone or in them and which were safe so I just revarnish when needed. 

    The varnish on the slider I imagine gives you a nice sealed and fairly hard surface for the wiper to rub on.  Does the wiper ever chatter as you raise and lower the slider?  I need to reface or replace my door and will go with varnish as well.  


Have a safe trip back South.

James Alton
SV Sueno,  Maramu #220
La Maddelena Island,  Italy

   


-----Original Message-----
From: greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Sun, Oct 21, 2018 8:39 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Companionway ( washboard ) rubber seal replacement?

 

As Bill R says, I think the weatherstrip is important to keep water out of the boat. If there is ANY gap, all the rain water that hits the surface of the slide will run down the surface of the slide into the boat.  It is easy to say "it's only 2mm wide" but it is 750mm long. That is about the same area as a 22 mm round hole.  Would you tolerate a 22mm round hole in the side of your cockpit that drained water into the boat? I would not.

An occasional coat of wax on our varnished slide keeps the rubber from sticking to it.  We varnished the teak companionway be cause we much prefer the "look" of well maintained varnish over teak oil--strictly personal preference.  With the same maintenance schedule, (and , yes, a bit more work) it holds up well.

If you do decide you prefer varnish, stick with the wax, and avoid the silicone spray and furniture polish containing silicone. Silicone is virtually impossible to remove when it is time to renew the finish, and it can cause you nightmares with the next maintenance coat of varnish "beading up" on the surface.  There are ways to get around it, but the best answer (again--with a varnish finish) is to just avoid the silicone.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Companionway ( washboard ) rubber seal replacement?

greatketch@...
 


James,

The original seal was what the autobody people call a "dew wipe" for a car window, the part that is supposed to squeegee off film of dew when you roll the window down. As Mike described, they had a "felt" or "flocking" on them.  I suspect that this has long since warn off even the newest of the factory original installations on SMs.  With the "flocking" intact, on the hard, smooth varnish we don't see "chattering" of the rubber on the moving slide.  

Right now, our seal is getting old again, and the flocking has worn off--in spots.  Those bare rubber spots are starting to "grab" a bit.  Time for a new seal...

Wax helps a lot on the smooth operation of the whole system.  Helps the varnish last longer, and look better too.

P.S. It has been pointed out to me that I screwed up... forgetting to move from radius to diameter.  The equivalent round hole to a 2mm x 750 mm gap is 22mm in radius, so 44mm in diameter.  Four times the area, and water flow for your calculations. I really doubt there is a condition where it would ever sink anybody's boat, but the "box" the slide goes down into on my boat is lined with a pile fabric. I just don't want any drips in there so things can grow.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA


---In amelyachtowners@..., <lokiyawl2@...> wrote :

Bill Kinney,

   You make some very good points.  A 22mm hole at a 1' head could flow around 615 GPH if my calculations are correct so there could be conditions where this could allow a lot of water into the boat.  I certainly hope to never encounter the conditions that Eric has.   One of the primary functions of a boat imo is to keep water on the outside and this seems to me to be a good way to reduce intrusion.  I second your concerns about silicones which can be impossible to finish over if they soak into bare wood.  Customers have brought boats to us to refinish the interior varnishwork and some where furniture polish was used were impossible to recoat,  nothing but fish eyes no matter how much cleaning we did. On the other hand some boats that also had furniture polish used on them were fine to refinish and I never determined which products had silicone or in them and which were safe so I just revarnish when needed. 

    The varnish on the slider I imagine gives you a nice sealed and fairly hard surface for the wiper to rub on.  Does the wiper ever chatter as you raise and lower the slider?  I need to reface or replace my door and will go with varnish as well.  


Have a safe trip back South.

James Alton
SV Sueno,  Maramu #220
La Maddelena Island,  Italy

   


EPIRB mounting location

Ryan Meador
 

Hi all,

I bought an ARC GlobalFix Pro with the SeaShelter mounting bracket (the kind that auto-releases if the boat sinks).  It's designed to mount to a vertical part of the hull... aside from not having much of a good spot, I don't relish the idea of screwing into the hull.  Surely, some of you must own this same EPIRB.  Where did you mount it?  I'm thinking of rigging up a rail mount.

Thanks,

Ryan and Kelly
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Companionway ( washboard ) rubber seal replacement?

eric freedman
 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Companionway ( washboard ) rubber seal replacement?

Craig Briggs
 

Olivier - truly amazing! Thanks for the background. 

Out of curiosity, did you measure how long it took to drain the cockpit with the regular cockpit drains not plugged?

In your test I assume that over the two days the water slowly seeped past the "licker", into the box and drained into the bilge sump, certainly without overflowing the box. And, I assume, after the water got down to the level of the bottom of the hatch, it stopped going down.

As I said, it was a fine idea "the Captain" had!

Cheers, Craig SN68


---In amelyachtowners@..., <atlanticyachtsurvey@...> wrote :

Hello proud owners of AMEL dry boats,

from Sharki to AMEL 54, the companionway hatch slides into a wooden "box" that collects the potential water that could flow between the rubber "licker" seal and the wooden hatch. This box is sealed and drains into the engine room bilge, unless the draining hole is stuffed with dust and small particles.
You can get access to the bottom of this box if you remove the wooden board at the bottom of the hatch (secured with a few screws). Then you can lift the hatch up to hitting the dodger, and have a look inside (and clean it).

So..., very little chance for this water to flood the vessel.
What if your cockpit is flooded by a wave?

When the SM was in production, we made once a test of draining the cockpit (thanks to the cockpit drains). We clogged all possible holes in the cockpit, plugged both cockpit drains and filled it up with water up to the backseats tops. Guess how much time it took to drain the cockpit?
Answer in two days.

All that said, it is good to keep the licker seal (originally a RENAULT cars part for opening windows) in good condition. I'm not sure Maud can still supply those...

Olivier

On Monday, October 22, 2018, 4:07:19 PM GMT+2, sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 

Hi James,

Wow, that's some scary arithmetic, which I'm sure is correct. If you've got a 1 foot head of water on your companionway hatch for an hour (let's see, that's like over the cockpit seats), uh, I think you've got bigger worries than some water below. And, the least of your worries might be that the weatherstripping could in no way handle that load and will have bent open, 
Then again, the weatherstripping is a fine idea that "the Captain" had, notwithstanding shorter-lived companionway plywood and the need to have a dark interior with it closed. 
Cheers, Craig SN68


---In amelyachtowners@..., <lokiyawl2@...> wrote :

Bill Kinney,

   You make some very good points.  A 22mm hole at a 1' head could flow around 615 GPH if my calculations are correct so there could be conditions where this could allow a lot of water into the boat.  I certainly hope to never encounter the conditions that Eric has.   One of the primary functions of a boat imo is to keep water on the outside and this seems to me to be a good way to reduce intrusion.  I second your concerns about silicones which can be impossible to finish over if they soak into bare wood.  Customers have brought boats to us to refinish the interior varnishwork and some where furniture polish was used were impossible to recoat,  nothing but fish eyes no matter how much cleaning we did. On the other hand some boats that also had furniture polish used on them were fine to refinish and I never determined which products had silicone or in them and which were safe so I just revarnish when needed. 

    The varnish on the slider I imagine gives you a nice sealed and fairly hard surface for the wiper to rub on.  Does the wiper ever chatter as you raise and lower the slider?  I need to reface or replace my door and will go with varnish as well.  


Have a safe trip back South.

James Alton
SV Sueno,  Maramu #220
La Maddelena Island,  Italy

   


-----Original Message-----
From: greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Sun, Oct 21, 2018 8:39 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Companionway ( washboard ) rubber seal replacement?

 

As Bill R says, I think the weatherstrip is important to keep water out of the boat. If there is ANY gap, all the rain water that hits the surface of the slide will run down the surface of the slide into the boat.  It is easy to say "it's only 2mm wide" but it is 750mm long. That is about the same area as a 22 mm round hole.  Would you tolerate a 22mm round hole in the side of your cockpit that drained water into the boat? I would not.

An occasional coat of wax on our varnished slide keeps the rubber from sticking to it.  We varnished the teak companionway because we much prefer the "look" of well maintained varnish over teak oil--strictly personal preference.  With the same maintenance schedule, (and , yes, a bit more work) it holds up well.

If you do decide you prefer varnish, stick with the wax, and avoid the silicone spray and furniture polish containing silicone. Silicone is virtually impossible to remove when it is time to renew the finish, and it can cause you nightmares with the next maintenance coat of varnish "beading up" on the surface.  There are ways to get around it, but the best answer (again--with a varnish finish) is to just avoid the silicone.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Companionway ( washboard ) rubber seal replacement?

Craig Briggs
 

Hi James,
You won't get any argument from me!  Enjoy your Amel!
Cheers,
Craig SN68


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Companionway ( washboard ) rubber seal replacement?

Beaute Olivier
 

Hello proud owners of AMEL dry boats,

from Sharki to AMEL 54, the companionway hatch slides into a wooden "box" that collects the potential water that could flow between the rubber "licker" seal and the wooden hatch. This box is sealed and drains into the engine room bilge, unless the draining hole is stuffed with dust and small particles.
You can get access to the bottom of this box if you remove the wooden board at the bottom of the hatch (secured with a few screws). Then you can lift the hatch up to hitting the dodger, and have a look inside (and clean it).

So..., very little chance for this water to flood the vessel.
What if your cockpit is flooded by a wave?

When the SM was in production, we made once a test of draining the cockpit (thanks to the cockpit drains). We clogged all possible holes in the cockpit, plugged both cockpit drains and filled it up with water up to the backseats tops. Guess how much time it took to drain the cockpit?
Answer in two days.

All that said, it is good to keep the licker seal (originally a RENAULT cars part for opening windows) in good condition. I'm not sure Maud can still supply those...

Olivier

On Monday, October 22, 2018, 4:07:19 PM GMT+2, sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:


 

Hi James,

Wow, that's some scary arithmetic, which I'm sure is correct. If you've got a 1 foot head of water on your companionway hatch for an hour (let's see, that's like over the cockpit seats), uh, I think you've got bigger worries than some water below. And, the least of your worries might be that the weatherstripping could in no way handle that load and will have bent open, 
Then again, the weatherstripping is a fine idea that "the Captain" had, notwithstanding shorter-lived companionway plywood and the need to have a dark interior with it closed. 
Cheers, Craig SN68


---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

Bill Kinney,

   You make some very good points.  A 22mm hole at a 1' head could flow around 615 GPH if my calculations are correct so there could be conditions where this could allow a lot of water into the boat.  I certainly hope to never encounter the conditions that Eric has.   One of the primary functions of a boat imo is to keep water on the outside and this seems to me to be a good way to reduce intrusion.  I second your concerns about silicones which can be impossible to finish over if they soak into bare wood.  Customers have brought boats to us to refinish the interior varnishwork and some where furniture polish was used were impossible to recoat,  nothing but fish eyes no matter how much cleaning we did. On the other hand some boats that also had furniture polish used on them were fine to refinish and I never determined which products had silicone or in them and which were safe so I just revarnish when needed. 

    The varnish on the slider I imagine gives you a nice sealed and fairly hard surface for the wiper to rub on.  Does the wiper ever chatter as you raise and lower the slider?  I need to reface or replace my door and will go with varnish as well.  


Have a safe trip back South.

James Alton
SV Sueno,  Maramu #220
La Maddelena Island,  Italy

   


-----Original Message-----
From: greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Sun, Oct 21, 2018 8:39 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Companionway ( washboard ) rubber seal replacement?

 

As Bill R says, I think the weatherstrip is important to keep water out of the boat. If there is ANY gap, all the rain water that hits the surface of the slide will run down the surface of the slide into the boat.  It is easy to say "it's only 2mm wide" but it is 750mm long. That is about the same area as a 22 mm round hole.  Would you tolerate a 22mm round hole in the side of your cockpit that drained water into the boat? I would not.

An occasional coat of wax on our varnished slide keeps the rubber from sticking to it.  We varnished the teak companionway because we much prefer the "look" of well maintained varnish over teak oil--strictly personal preference.  With the same maintenance schedule, (and , yes, a bit more work) it holds up well.

If you do decide you prefer varnish, stick with the wax, and avoid the silicone spray and furniture polish containing silicone. Silicone is virtually impossible to remove when it is time to renew the finish, and it can cause you nightmares with the next maintenance coat of varnish "beading up" on the surface.  There are ways to get around it, but the best answer (again--with a varnish finish) is to just avoid the silicone.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Companionway ( washboard ) rubber seal replacement?

James Alton
 

Hi Craig,

   We like to keep cans and tools in the normally dry main  bilge forward of the companionway slider so even a gallon of saltwater from a leaking companionway slider could do a lot of damage from corrosion so I am interested in any options to reduce water ingress.  I agree, a foot of water in the cockpit above the level of the sill that stayed for any length of time would certainly be a big concern   and I hope to never encounter conditions that truly flood the cockpit.     The arithmetic of course was only meant to be a reference point.  I cannot imagine with the large cockpit drains that even a large wave coming aboard would not be gone in short order but if conditions were bad enough that one wave found it's way aboard then certainly more could follow... 

    The original plywood slider on my boat is now 31 years old and is still structurally perfectly sound but the outer veener is about gone so the aesthetics are suffering.  I sort of doubt that I would get that much service from a modern day pc. of plexiglass and have in replaced quite a few plexiglass drop boards that cracked or even broke in half on a customers boat so the material can fail in ways that won't happen with the plywood.    I can understand the benefits of having more light below but actually the wife and I prefer the original Amel wooden slider so we won't be changing to plexiglass.  Actually the longer I own my Amel the less I am inclined to change things on the boat.   I appreciate the advice given to me by some very helpful people on this board to keep things as they were designed until I really got to know the boat. 

Best,

James Alton
SV Sueno
Maramu #220
La Maddelena,  Italy 

     


-----Original Message-----
From: sangaris@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Mon, Oct 22, 2018 4:07 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Companionway ( washboard ) rubber seal replacement?

 
Hi James,
Wow, that's some scary arithmetic, which I'm sure is correct. If you've got a 1 foot head of water on your companionway hatch for an hour (let's see, that's like over the cockpit seats), uh, I think you've got bigger worries than some water below. And, the least of your worries might be that the weatherstripping could in no way handle that load and will have bent open, 
Then again, the weatherstripping is a fine idea that "the Captain" had, notwithstanding shorter-lived companionway plywood and the need to have a dark interior with it closed. 
Cheers, Craig SN68


---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

Bill Kinney,

   You make some very good points.  A 22mm hole at a 1' head could flow aroun d 615 GPH if my calculations are correct so there could be conditions where this could allow a lot of water into the boat.  I certainly hope to never encounter the conditions that Eric has.   One of the primary functions of a boat imo is to keep water on the outside and this seems to me to be a good way to reduce intrusion.  I second your concerns about silicones which can be impossible to finish over if they soak into bare wood.  Customers have brought boats to us to refinish the interior varnishwork and some where furniture polish was used were impossible to recoat,  nothing but fish eyes no matter how much cleaning we did. On the other hand some boats that also had furniture polish used on them were fine to refinish and I never determined which products had silicone or in them and which were safe so I just revarnish when needed. 

    The varnish on the slider I imagine gives you a nice sealed and fairly hard surface for the wiper to rub on.  Does the wiper ever chatter as you raise and lower the slider?  I need to reface or replace my door and will go with varnish as well.  


Have a safe trip back South.

James Alton
SV Sueno,  Maramu #220
La Maddelena Island,  Italy

   


-----Original Message-----
From: greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Sun, Oct 21, 2018 8:39 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Companionway ( washboard ) rubber seal replacement?

 

As Bill R says, I think the weatherstrip is important to keep water out of the boat. If there is ANY gap, all the rain water that hits the surface of the slide will run down the surface of the slide into the boat.  It is easy to say "it's only 2mm wide" but it is 750mm long. That is about the same area as a 22 mm round hole.  Would you tolerate a 22mm round hole in the side of your cockpit that drained water into the boat? I would not.

An occasional coat of wax on our varnished slide keeps the rubber from sticking to it.  We varnished the teak companionway because we much prefer the "look" of well m aintained varnish over teak oil--strictly personal preference.  With the same maintenance schedule, (and , yes, a bit more work) it holds up well.

If you do decide you prefer varnish, stick with the wax, and avoid the silicone spray and furniture polish containing silicone. Silicone is virtually impossible to remove when it is time to renew the finish, and it can cause you nightmares with the next maintenance coat of varnish "beading up" on the surface.  There are ways to get around it, but the best answer (again--with a varnish finish) is to just avoid the silicone.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Companionway ( washboard ) rubber seal replacement?

Danny Simms
 

Hi,
As I have said before My companionway slider is varnished and I use furniture polish on it. The polish I use is Neopol original cream polish and I have had no trouble re varnishing. My rubber strip is original and the hatch looks good and goes up and down easily.
Regards
Danny
SM 299
Ocean Pearl

On Mon, 22 Oct 2018 at 22:59, lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Bill Kinney,


   You make some very good points.  A 22mm hole at a 1' head could flow around 615 GPH if my calculations are correct so there could be conditions where this could allow a lot of water into the boat.  I certainly hope to never encounter the conditions that Eric has.   One of the primary functions of a boat imo is to keep water on the outside and this seems to me to be a good way to reduce intrusion.  I second your concerns about silicones which can be impossible to finish over if they soak into bare wood.  Customers have brought boats to us to refinish the interior varnishwork and some where furniture polish was used were impossible to recoat,  nothing but fish eyes no matter how much cleaning we did. On the other hand some boats that also had furniture polish used on them were fine to refinish and I never determined which products had silicone or in them and which were safe so I just revarnish when needed. 

    The varnish on the slider I imagine gives you a nice sealed and fairly hard surface for the wiper to rub on.  Does the wiper ever chatter as you raise and lower the slider?  I need to reface or replace my door and will go with varnish as well.  


Have a safe trip back South.

James Alton
SV Sueno,  Maramu #220
La Maddelena Island,  Italy

   


-----Original Message-----
From: greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Sun, Oct 21, 2018 8:39 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Companionway ( washboard ) rubber seal replacement?

 

As Bill R says, I think the weatherstrip is important to keep water out of the boat. If there is ANY gap, all the rain water that hits the surface of the slide will run down the surface of the slide into the boat.  It is easy to say "it's only 2mm wide" but it is 750mm long. That is about the same area as a 22 mm round hole.  Would you tolerate a 22mm round hole in the side of your cockpit that drained water into the boat? I would not.

An occasional coat of wax on our varnished slide keeps the rubber from sticking to it.  We varnished the teak companionway because we much prefer the "look" of well maintained varnish over teak oil--strictly personal preference.  With the same maintenance schedule, (and , yes, a bit more work) it holds up well.

If you do decide you prefer varnish, stick with the wax, and avoid the silicone spray and furniture polish containing silicone. Silicone is virtually impossible to remove when it is time to renew the finish, and it can cause you nightmares with the next maintenance coat of varnish "beading up" on the surface.  There are ways to get around it, but the best answer (again--with a varnish finish) is to just avoid the silicone.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Companionway ( washboard ) rubber seal replacement?

Craig Briggs
 

Hi James,
Wow, that's some scary arithmetic, which I'm sure is correct. If you've got a 1 foot head of water on your companionway hatch for an hour (let's see, that's like over the cockpit seats), uh, I think you've got bigger worries than some water below. And, the least of your worries might be that the weatherstripping could in no way handle that load and will have bent open, 
Then again, the weatherstripping is a fine idea that "the Captain" had, notwithstanding shorter-lived companionway plywood and the need to have a dark interior with it closed. 
Cheers, Craig SN68


---In amelyachtowners@..., <lokiyawl2@...> wrote :

Bill Kinney,

   You make some very good points.  A 22mm hole at a 1' head could flow around 615 GPH if my calculations are correct so there could be conditions where this could allow a lot of water into the boat.  I certainly hope to never encounter the conditions that Eric has.   One of the primary functions of a boat imo is to keep water on the outside and this seems to me to be a good way to reduce intrusion.  I second your concerns about silicones which can be impossible to finish over if they soak into bare wood.  Customers have brought boats to us to refinish the interior varnishwork and some where furniture polish was used were impossible to recoat,  nothing but fish eyes no matter how much cleaning we did. On the other hand some boats that also had furniture polish used on them were fine to refinish and I never determined which products had silicone or in them and which were safe so I just revarnish when needed. 

    The varnish on the slider I imagine gives you a nice sealed and fairly hard surface for the wiper to rub on.  Does the wiper ever chatter as you raise and lower the slider?  I need to reface or replace my door and will go with varnish as well.  


Have a safe trip back South.

James Alton
SV Sueno,  Maramu #220
La Maddelena Island,  Italy

   


-----Original Message-----
From: greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Sun, Oct 21, 2018 8:39 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Companionway ( washboard ) rubber seal replacement?

 

As Bill R says, I think the weatherstrip is important to keep water out of the boat. If there is ANY gap, all the rain water that hits the surface of the slide will run down the surface of the slide into the boat.  It is easy to say "it's only 2mm wide" but it is 750mm long. That is about the same area as a 22 mm round hole.  Would you tolerate a 22mm round hole in the side of your cockpit that drained water into the boat? I would not.

An occasional coat of wax on our varnished slide keeps the rubber from sticking to it.  We varnished the teak companionway because we much prefer the "look" of well maintained varnish over teak oil--strictly personal preference.  With the same maintenance schedule, (and , yes, a bit more work) it holds up well.

If you do decide you prefer varnish, stick with the wax, and avoid the silicone spray and furniture polish containing silicone. Silicone is virtually impossible to remove when it is time to renew the finish, and it can cause you nightmares with the next maintenance coat of varnish "beading up" on the surface.  There are ways to get around it, but the best answer (again--with a varnish finish) is to just avoid the silicone.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Companionway ( washboard ) rubber seal replacement?

Mike Ondra
 

The belted weather strip from Rockauto was "flocked" over the rubber so it is a felt-like material that touches the sliding hatch. Slides with much less friction than the original rubber against the hatch. No black marks or turning over ofthe rubber.

Mike Ondra
Alete SM#240

On Oct 21, 2018, at 2:39 PM, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 


As Bill R says, I think the weatherstrip is important to keep water out of the boat. If there is ANY gap, all the rain water that hits the surface of the slide will run down the surface of the slide into the boat.  It is easy to say "it's only 2mm wide" but it is 750mm long. That is about the same area as a 22 mm round hole.  Would you tolerate a 22mm round hole in the side of your cockpit that drained water into the boat? I would not.

An occasional coat of wax on our varnished slide keeps the rubber from sticking to it.  We varnished the teak companionway because we much prefer the "look" of well maintained varnish over teak oil--strictly personal preference.  With the same maintenance schedule, (and , yes, a bit more work) it holds up well.

If you do decide you prefer varnish, stick with the wax, and avoid the silicone spray and furniture polish containing silicone. Silicone is virtually impossible to remove when it is time to renew the finish, and it can cause you nightmares with the next maintenance coat of varnish "beading up" on the surface.  There are ways to get around it, but the best answer (again--with a varnish finish) is to just avoid the silicone.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Companionway ( washboard ) rubber seal replacement?

James Alton
 

Bill Kinney,

   You make some very good points.  A 22mm hole at a 1' head could flow around 615 GPH if my calculations are correct so there could be conditions where this could allow a lot of water into the boat.  I certainly hope to never encounter the conditions that Eric has.   One of the primary functions of a boat imo is to keep water on the outside and this seems to me to be a good way to reduce intrusion.  I second your concerns about silicones which can be impossible to finish over if they soak into bare wood.  Customers have brought boats to us to refinish the interior varnishwork and some where furniture polish was used were impossible to recoat,  nothing but fish eyes no matter how much cleaning we did. On the other hand some boats that also had furniture polish used on them were fine to refinish and I never determined which products had silicone or in them and which were safe so I just revarnish when needed. 

    The varnish on the slider I imagine gives you a nice sealed and fairly hard surface for the wiper to rub on.  Does the wiper ever chatter as you raise and lower the slider?  I need to reface or replace my door and will go with varnish as well.  


Have a safe trip back South.

James Alton
SV Sueno,  Maramu #220
La Maddelena Island,  Italy

   


-----Original Message-----
From: greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners Sent: Sun, Oct 21, 2018 8:39 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Companionway ( washboard ) rubber seal replacement?

 

As Bill R says, I think the weatherstrip is important to keep water out of the boat. If there is ANY gap, all the rain water that hits the surface of the slide will run down the surface of the slide into the boat.  It is easy to say "it's only 2mm wide" but it is 750mm long. That is about the same area as a 22 mm round hole.  Would you tolerate a 22mm round hole in the side of your cockpit that drained water into the boat? I would not.

An occasional coat of wax on our varnished slide keeps the rubber from sticking to it.  We varnished the teak companionway because we much prefer the "look" of well maintained varnish over teak oil--strictly personal preference.  With the same maintenance schedule, (and , yes, a bit more work) it holds up well.

If you do decide you prefer varnish, stick with the wax, and avoid the silicone spray and furniture polish containing silicone. Silicone is virtually impossible to remove when it is time to renew the finish, and it can cause you nightmares with the next maintenance coat of varnish "beading up" on the surface.  There are ways to get around it, but the best answer (again--with a varnish finish) is to just avoid the silicone.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Companionway ( washboard ) rubber seal replacement?

Craig Briggs
 

Well, Biil, actually, a 22mm round hole - call it an inch in diameter - takes in very little rain water unless you make a funnel to it from a tarp, like in the old days when sailors collected rain water for drinking. Now, maybe you could consider the hatch to be the funnel (pretty inefficient) and, yes, you'll get a bit more water. But, really, not a whole lot and since our revered  "Captain Henri" himself, engineered the drain to handle anything that might get through, IMHO the weatherstripping is really not needed.  It only tends to deteriorate the plywood companionway board (as most owners have experienced) or, if you've switched to plexiglass for wonderful brightness below decks with the companionway closed, it scratches that badly.
FWIW,
Cheers, Craig SN68 with a really cheerful and bright below decks with the companionway closed! 


---In amelyachtowners@..., <greatketch@...> wrote :


As Bill R says, I think the weatherstrip is important to keep water out of the boat. If there is ANY gap, all the rain water that hits the surface of the slide will run down the surface of the slide into the boat.  It is easy to say "it's only 2mm wide" but it is 750mm long. That is about the same area as a 22 mm round hole.  Would you tolerate a 22mm round hole in the side of your cockpit that drained water into the boat? I would not.

An occasional coat of wax on our varnished slide keeps the rubber from sticking to it.  We varnished the teak companionway because we much prefer the "look" of well maintained varnish over teak oil--strictly personal preference.  With the same maintenance schedule, (and , yes, a bit more work) it holds up well.

If you do decide you prefer varnish, stick with the wax, and avoid the silicone spray and furniture polish containing silicone. Silicone is virtually impossible to remove when it is time to renew the finish, and it can cause you nightmares with the next maintenance coat of varnish "beading up" on the surface.  There are ways to get around it, but the best answer (again--with a varnish finish) is to just avoid the silicone.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Companionway ( washboard ) rubber seal replacement?

Craig Briggs
 

Hi Eric,
I get your point, but I'm really sure the catchment drain will more than compensate for any normal ingress from rain or deck washing or a rare cockpit pooping. Now, understand that I don't choose to sail semi-submerged with a Jordan Drogue like you do! (Not that I'm not totally awed by your accomplishments)
You're totally correct that to be totally bullet proof in life threatening conditions one might choose the weatherstripping and the maintenance aggravation and dark belowdecks that go with it, notwithstanding the miniscule risk of a minor inconvenience of having to mop up some water after a hurricane whilst underway. I think it's not too inaccurate to say most Amels have never sailed in furious conditions where they've gotten their cockpits swamped, as, I guess from your posting, that you have. 
Cheers,
Craig SN68.
 


---In amelyachtowners@..., <kimberlite@...> wrote :

If your cockpit gets full of water you will get water below and will cause the catchment to overflow.
Fair Winds,
Eric
SM 376 Kimberlite


On Sun, Oct 21, 2018 at 01:21 PM, sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 

Not really, Bill.  

1 - the gap (at least on my boat) is barely 2mm so only a minuscule amount of water ever gets in. 
2 - on my boat there's hardly ever water on the door, The most is when I wash the cockpit. 
3 - Amel plumbed the catchment below the door to readily drain into the bilge sump - no standing water for mold and mildew. Plus the catchment is wide open for airing out, especially at night when the hatch is up. 
4 - I used to get much more moldy "yuck" in the catchment with the weather strip - now I simply flush it out now and then and it's fresh as a daisy.

So, IMHO, there's no downside to not having the weatherstripping. The up side is that the door material, be it plywood or plexiglass stays perfect with no persnickety care with silicone or worrying about bent weatherstrip, etc.

There's more than one way to skin a cat,
Cheers, Craig SN68


---In amelyachtowners@..., <brouse@...> wrote :

Craig, no weather strip means that all water running down the companionway door will run inside the boat and inside that bulkhead. I would really advise against that unless moisture, mold and mildew is acceptable.

The most common reason for black marks on the Companionway Door is that the wood gets damaged by UV and causes the rubber weather strip to stick as the door is lowered. In my opinion, the best treatment for the teak veneer door is to light hand-sand it and treat it with teak oil (at least every 6 months in the tropics). Pay attention to the rubber weather strip and do not allow it to fold under itself when lowering the door. If you have varnished the door (don't recommend), or teak-oiled it, and it is in good condition, AND, the rubber is still sticking to the door and folding under: Use a light coat of silicone spray on the door (Not WD40). You should also use the silicone spray on the door and top tracks and slides. 

Best,

CW Bill Rouse

On Sun, Oct 21, 2018 at 7:45 AM sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

And here's what I found a few years ago, it also works great.


Remove the weatherstripping and don't replace it.

You can keep the plywood or switch to plexiglass to amazingly brighten things below. No weatherstripping means no scratched or worn door panel.

Cheers, Craig, SN68


---In amelyachtowners@..., <karkauai@...> wrote :

Here’s what I found a few years ago, it works great.

Here's the gasket material I found that works fine.  It's enough to do two replacements.

My first replacement in 2010 has dried out and needs replacement again after 5 years.

Purchased at JCWhitney.com

+1 800-529-4486

 

Belt Weatherstripping

Item No. 819751

 

Cost including shipping in 2010 was $28 US.


No bending required, just holes drilled and cut to length.


Since I put spar urethane on the companionway door, I’ve had no black rubber coming off on the door as it slides up and down.

 

Kent

SM243

Kristy 



On Oct 20, 2018, at 10:31 AM, bazgrayson@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Mike, I'm about to purchase this seal from Rockauto but have a few questions first.

Do you have any material left?
It looks like the metal piece is raised above the level of the fixed piece of wood that is on the outside of the door. Did you ever bend that down flush or have you left it raised, i tend to put my foot on the door sometimes.
I wish i had looked at it while at the rendezvous
Regards
Alan Grayson
SV Ora Pai SM 406
Ft Lauderdale


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Grenada summer insurance

Porter McRoberts
 

100%!!! Agree John!
Porter

On Oct 21, 2018, at 2:10 PM, John Clark john.biohead@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Hi Bill,
   I want to say thank you for your efforts.  I am sure even if not stated everyone agrees.  Keep up the good work.  
                                 Regards  John
SV Annie SM #37
preparing to sail to Carriacou in morning.

On Sun, Oct 21, 2018 at 9:27 AM Bill Rouse brouse@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Craig,

Maybe I shouldn't have said anything until I had more to say. I apologize for the unintended "tease." I commented because I am as frustrated as most of you probably are. Insurance while cruising on BeBe equaled about 10% of our total cruising expenses...very close to the cost of food or boat maintenance.

I was motivated to do whatever I could regarding fair and quality insurance for Amel School Clients and I was angry and likewise motivated because of the way a few friends have recently been treated by insurance companies.

I reached out to someone I know in the marine insurance business and explained all of the reasons why I thought that Amel Yachts and this particular group of owners should be treated as a "select group." He agreed and has been working to provide just that. Of course, until I see what it is, I cannot know if it is what any Amel owner may want. And I can't really comment further because to do so would be guessing on my part.

I wish I had more to say.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970



On Sun, Oct 21, 2018 at 7:57 AM sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Bill Rouse,


I'd also like to know those specifics, if you will, as I've gone over our newest Pantaenius policy quite thoroughly and the unrealistic storage requirements were all I noted as changed and objectionable. 

That they have added "legal traps" as you call them is troubling and I'm sure those of us with Pantaenius policies would really like you to tell us what they are, as I, for one, simply didn't spot them.

I shopped a bit but got much higher quotes and less coverage so stuck with Pantaenius and just moved the boat north (out of Florida) into the seemingly prime east coast hurricane landing zone, but that's another issue.

Best,
Craig Briggs, SN68


---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

Bill,

Can you be specific about what has changed in Pantaenius' policies?  

Except for the changes in the tropical storm region, as far as I have noticed there have been no "Lawerly" changes to the terms of the policy.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA



---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

I have recommended Pantaenius for the last 2 years, but I have always said, that the "best boat insurance company" changes often. It has changed! I currently would recommend avoiding Pantaenius because they have "lawyered" their policies with legal traps (requirements) which are apparently designed in such a way to avoid paying a claim. I am not sure who I would recommend at this point. 

Sometime early next year I hope to announce a policy designed for Amel Yacht Owners. Unfortunately, at this time, I can't say anything else about it. And, it may not be anything better than what's available. I have not been given a copy of the policy language yet. I will let you all know more when I know more.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse

On Sat, Oct 20, 2018 at 11:15 AM greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Steve,


We have been looking at the Pantaenius "hurricane zone" coverage conditions as well since we are considering the Southwest Caribbean for the summer season.  We found the requirements for land storage (Paragraph 1),inside building storage (Paragraph 2) and in-water storage (Paragraph 3) impractical for a vessel that wasn't out of service for the season--if such things are even available in the real world of the islands.  Fortunately there is a Paragraph 4, that we feel would meet our needs:
The insured vessel may be moved in order to avoid the effects of the NTS and prevent damage or loss, provided the vessel is moved in a time, manner, and direction reasonably calculated to avoid the NTS based on the projected path of the NTS and provided the projected path of the NTS is monitored by the insured at all times. If the vessel is moved and then secured, it must be secured in accordance with requirement 1, 2, or 3 above, unless the projected path of the NTS indicates the vessel will not be affected by the NTS. 
Certainly not everybody's possible answer, but for most of the Caribbean, if where you are has a bull's eye on it, heading south is (rarely) a mistake.  And if we get to the San Blas Islands, the risk there of a named storm is very small.  Certainly lower risk than anyplace on the USA East Coast south of Maine.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA



---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

Hello All.  TouRai is presently in Hampton Virginia preparing for the Salty Dawg Rally to the BVI.  As this year's plan may involve a summer in Grenada, we are working with Pantaenius to obtain our new coverage.  While reading through the "Named Tropical Storm Plan Requirements" of my new policy quote, Pantaenius writes:
  1. The insured vessel shall be hauled and secured a unitized cradle suitable for the vessel or in a hurricane pit. With either arrangement, the vessel is to be lashed directly to the ground or to concrete blocks, one concrete block with a minimum weight of 5000 lbs to be located at each lashing anchor point. Lashing is to be accomplished using a minimum of one (1) tensioning strap located symmetrically on each side of the vessel for every 10 feet of vessel length.
    Each strap shall have a minimum breaking strength of 5000 lbs. Single straps may be run transversely across the vessel and lashed to the ground or concrete blocks on both sides of
    the vessel to accomplish required lashings. In addition, the vessel interior and stowage lockers shall be secured and locked to prevent theft and vandalism and all loose or removable items, components, parts, and equipment, including but not limited to personal effects, sails, cushions, canvas, and covers, must be removed and properly secured to prevent damage or loss.


    My question to the members here who have spent time in Grenada is, "how difficult is it to meet such requirements in Grenada?  Is this the sort of set up I can expect to find on short notice, or is this a setup that Pantaenius assumes I can't fulfill?  When summering in Grenada, do you pay a haul out facility to hold a spot for you should you need it?  

    Any advice would be welcome as our renewal date is approaching.  Staying below 30.5 already comes with a stiff premium increase through Pantaenius, I just want to believe that I am not paying more for coverage stipulations that I will not be ale to satisfy should the time come.

    All the best to you all as we await the annual 01Nov release...

    Steve Morrison
    SM 380 TouRai
    Hampton, VA






Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Grenada summer insurance

John Clark
 

Hi Bill,
   I want to say thank you for your efforts.  I am sure even if not stated everyone agrees.  Keep up the good work.  
                                 Regards  John
SV Annie SM #37
preparing to sail to Carriacou in morning.

On Sun, Oct 21, 2018 at 9:27 AM Bill Rouse brouse@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Craig,

Maybe I shouldn't have said anything until I had more to say. I apologize for the unintended "tease." I commented because I am as frustrated as most of you probably are. Insurance while cruising on BeBe equaled about 10% of our total cruising expenses...very close to the cost of food or boat maintenance.

I was motivated to do whatever I could regarding fair and quality insurance for Amel School Clients and I was angry and likewise motivated because of the way a few friends have recently been treated by insurance companies.

I reached out to someone I know in the marine insurance business and explained all of the reasons why I thought that Amel Yachts and this particular group of owners should be treated as a "select group." He agreed and has been working to provide just that. Of course, until I see what it is, I cannot know if it is what any Amel owner may want. And I can't really comment further because to do so would be guessing on my part.

I wish I had more to say.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970



On Sun, Oct 21, 2018 at 7:57 AM sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Bill Rouse,


I'd also like to know those specifics, if you will, as I've gone over our newest Pantaenius policy quite thoroughly and the unrealistic storage requirements were all I noted as changed and objectionable. 

That they have added "legal traps" as you call them is troubling and I'm sure those of us with Pantaenius policies would really like you to tell us what they are, as I, for one, simply didn't spot them.

I shopped a bit but got much higher quotes and less coverage so stuck with Pantaenius and just moved the boat north (out of Florida) into the seemingly prime east coast hurricane landing zone, but that's another issue.

Best,
Craig Briggs, SN68


---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

Bill,

Can you be specific about what has changed in Pantaenius' policies?  

Except for the changes in the tropical storm region, as far as I have noticed there have been no "Lawerly" changes to the terms of the policy.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA



---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

I have recommended Pantaenius for the last 2 years, but I have always said, that the "best boat insurance company" changes often. It has changed! I currently would recommend avoiding Pantaenius because they have "lawyered" their policies with legal traps (requirements) which are apparently designed in such a way to avoid paying a claim. I am not sure who I would recommend at this point. 

Sometime early next year I hope to announce a policy designed for Amel Yacht Owners. Unfortunately, at this time, I can't say anything else about it. And, it may not be anything better than what's available. I have not been given a copy of the policy language yet. I will let you all know more when I know more.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse

On Sat, Oct 20, 2018 at 11:15 AM greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Steve,


We have been looking at the Pantaenius "hurricane zone" coverage conditions as well since we are considering the Southwest Caribbean for the summer season.  We found the requirements for land storage (Paragraph 1),inside building storage (Paragraph 2) and in-water storage (Paragraph 3) impractical for a vessel that wasn't out of service for the season--if such things are even available in the real world of the islands.  Fortunately there is a Paragraph 4, that we feel would meet our needs:
The insured vessel may be moved in order to avoid the effects of the NTS and prevent damage or loss, provided the vessel is moved in a time, manner, and direction reasonably calculated to avoid the NTS based on the projected path of the NTS and provided the projected path of the NTS is monitored by the insured at all times. If the vessel is moved and then secured, it must be secured in accordance with requirement 1, 2, or 3 above, unless the projected path of the NTS indicates the vessel will not be affected by the NTS. 
Certainly not everybody's possible answer, but for most of the Caribbean, if where you are has a bull's eye on it, heading south is (rarely) a mistake.  And if we get to the San Blas Islands, the risk there of a named storm is very small.  Certainly lower risk than anyplace on the USA East Coast south of Maine.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA



---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

Hello All.  TouRai is presently in Hampton Virginia preparing for the Salty Dawg Rally to the BVI.  As this year's plan may involve a summer in Grenada, we are working with Pantaenius to obtain our new coverage.  While reading through the "Named Tropical Storm Plan Requirements" of my new policy quote, Pantaenius writes:
  1. The insured vessel shall be hauled and secured a unitized cradle suitable for the vessel or in a hurricane pit. With either arrangement, the vessel is to be lashed directly to the ground or to concrete blocks, one concrete block with a minimum weight of 5000 lbs to be located at each lashing anchor point. Lashing is to be accomplished using a minimum of one (1) tensioning strap located symmetrically on each side of the vessel for every 10 feet of vessel length.
    Each strap shall have a minimum breaking strength of 5000 lbs. Single straps may be run transversely across the vessel and lashed to the ground or concrete blocks on both sides of
    the vessel to accomplish required lashings. In addition, the vessel interior and stowage lockers shall be secured and locked to prevent theft and vandalism and all loose or removable items, components, parts, and equipment, including but not limited to personal effects, sails, cushions, canvas, and covers, must be removed and properly secured to prevent damage or loss.


    My question to the members here who have spent time in Grenada is, "how difficult is it to meet such requirements in Grenada?  Is this the sort of set up I can expect to find on short notice, or is this a setup that Pantaenius assumes I can't fulfill?  When summering in Grenada, do you pay a haul out facility to hold a spot for you should you need it?  

    Any advice would be welcome as our renewal date is approaching.  Staying below 30.5 already comes with a stiff premium increase through Pantaenius, I just want to believe that I am not paying more for coverage stipulations that I will not be ale to satisfy should the time come.

    All the best to you all as we await the annual 01Nov release...

    Steve Morrison
    SM 380 TouRai
    Hampton, VA

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