Date   

Re: mizzen furler failure

Duane Siegfri
 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: mizzen furler failure

Ryan Meador
 

I believe our new gearbox from Amel was packed with grease. Grease could be seen inside the mounting screw holes on each side, and it was heavier than the old one, as if it was full of something.

Ryan
SM 233 Iteration
St George's, Bermuda

On Sat, Nov 3, 2018, 5:09 PM 'S/V Garulfo' svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Thanks for your confirmation Bill.
Is the gearbox meant to be packed full of grease?

thanks
Thomas
GARULFO A54-122
Aruba

On Sat, 3 Nov 2018 at 15:49, Bill Rouse brouse@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Thomas,

It sounds to me like the best way to repair this issue is to clean and lubricate with the help of a local machine shop. Am I correct?

BTW, I think MCLUBE SailKote Dry Lubricant might be perfect because most other lubricants will remain wet and will attract dust and dirt.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970



On Sat, Nov 3, 2018 at 1:00 PM 'S/V Garulfo' svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

An update :

A local machine shop press the shaft out for us.

Initially they thought they might need to cut and thread a metal plate to match the outer tube thread and provide a holding plate but then they simply grabbed it in a turning machine and pushed the shaft out slowly. 

In the picture you’ll see there isn’t a huge amount of corrosion but enough to block the rotation against the plastic bushing. 

Now I’ll sand it clean, and remount every thing. 

I’m thinking mcLube sailkote dry lube for lubrification of the shaft/bushing interface. Any other advice ?


Thanks

Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Aruba




On Mon, 29 Oct 2018 at 16:37, 'S/V Garulfo' svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi,

Thanks Kelly and Ryan,

We are at the same point of disassembly. So far, soft cleaning of the accessible interface between the plastic sleeve and the metal parts yielded no results; still stuck. 

There is very little way to hold the outer metal tube in place.... And, should I try to get the inner tube pressed out, it’s going to be tricky to hold the outer tube as the flange is tiny. 

I’m really keen to hear what trick Derick’s rigger used to solve the issue.


Thanks
Thomas

GARULFO 
A54-122
Aruba


On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 at 10:48, Kelly Ran naryllek@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Thomas,

We were not able to free the inner tube and outer sleeve. I do not think the bushing should rigidly couple to either part. In any case, the inner tube should turn pretty easily inside the sleeve.

The most dissasembly we could do was unthread the horizontal part all the way and remove the forward part of the inner tube. The inner tube is 2 parts, and the forward section is bolted on.

If you detach the foil, you can screw on the horizontal part again ... the bevel gears will start meshing as you engage more threads, but you won't really be driving anything (as the foil is not attached). You will need to take care that the "pinned" position corresponds to the foil position that you want.

FWIW the new furler gearbox that we received from Amel is buttersmooth and infinitely easier to use than our original seized gearbox.....  I fear that only my left arm will get a workout (outhaul), as the right arm (furling) does not need much effort anymore.  (The new part also has a seal that seems to have completely disintegrated on the old part.. Which makes me think that if you dissasemble and grease the part, it will still need a seal. This is a red annular seal that goes around the base of the foil attachment part as it exits the gearbox. (There is also a neoprene-ish washer inside the foil attachment part to dampen the foil's axial motion?))

Keep us updated on your progress; we will want to refurbish our old gearbox when we have more time. Thanks and good luck,
kelly + ryan
SM233 Iteration
Newport

On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 4:31 PM 'S/V Garulfo' svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 


Hi Derick, Ryan and Kelly, 

We have the same situation with our mizzen gearbox. The horizontal tube is seized; the outer sleeve, the nylon bushing and the inner tube coupling the gears to the winch handle female bit are all solidly stuck together. 
Is there any advice on how to make them work freely again? Is the nylon bushing meant to be solidly coupled to either the outer sleeve or the inner tube?

Also, as a result of that seizure, I think the thread between the horizontal elements and the gearbox appears to have slipped. Any idea if that could be remediated in any way?

Thanks


Thomas
GARULFO
A54-122
Aruba

On Wed, 19 Sep 2018 at 19:18, Ryan Meador ryan.d.meador@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Thanks, Derick.  That's great info, and matches the diagram I received from Amel (which I intend to upload to the files section when I get a chance).  Do you have any idea how the rigger separated the pieces of the tube?  Also, did you simply screw it back in, and it turns freely enough that it doesn't unscrew itself again?


Ryan and Kelly
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA


On Tue, Sep 18, 2018 at 11:37 PM derickgates@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Ryan,

I had the same problem on Brava. The piece in your picture had frozen up, and I needed to take it to a rigger. The rigger was able to remove the inner tube from the outer tube, and clean and regrease it so that then it turned freely. If you then disengage the gearbox from the mizzen foil, you can remove it and see how the piece you have pictured screws into the gearbox. There are only a few threads between the two pieces. While you have the gearbox out, you can grease it too.

Derick Gates
SM2K #400 Brava

Currently on the hard in Antigua


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: mizzen furler failure

Sv Garulfo
 

Thanks for your confirmation Bill.
Is the gearbox meant to be packed full of grease?

thanks
Thomas
GARULFO A54-122
Aruba

On Sat, 3 Nov 2018 at 15:49, Bill Rouse brouse@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Thomas,

It sounds to me like the best way to repair this issue is to clean and lubricate with the help of a local machine shop. Am I correct?

BTW, I think MCLUBE SailKote Dry Lubricant might be perfect because most other lubricants will remain wet and will attract dust and dirt.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970



On Sat, Nov 3, 2018 at 1:00 PM 'S/V Garulfo' svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

An update :

A local machine shop press the shaft out for us.

Initially they thought they might need to cut and thread a metal plate to match the outer tube thread and provide a holding plate but then they simply grabbed it in a turning machine and pushed the shaft out slowly. 

In the picture you’ll see there isn’t a huge amount of corrosion but enough to block the rotation against the plastic bushing. 

Now I’ll sand it clean, and remount every thing. 

I’m thinking mcLube sailkote dry lube for lubrification of the shaft/bushing interface. Any other advice ?


Thanks

Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Aruba




On Mon, 29 Oct 2018 at 16:37, 'S/V Garulfo' svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi,

Thanks Kelly and Ryan,

We are at the same point of disassembly. So far, soft cleaning of the accessible interface between the plastic sleeve and the metal parts yielded no results; still stuck. 

There is very little way to hold the outer metal tube in place... And, should I try to get the inner tube pressed out, it’s going to be tricky to hold the outer tube as the flange is tiny. 

I’m really keen to hear what trick Derick’s rigger used to solve the issue.


Thanks
Thomas

GARULFO 
A54-122
Aruba


On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 at 10:48, Kelly Ran naryllek@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Thomas,

We were not able to free the inner tube and outer sleeve. I do not think the bushing should rigidly couple to either part. In any case, the inner tube should turn pretty easily inside the sleeve.

The most dissasembly we could do was unthread the horizontal part all the way and remove the forward part of the inner tube. The inner tube is 2 parts, and the forward section is bolted on.

If you detach the foil, you can screw on the horizontal part again ... the bevel gears will start meshing as you engage more threads, but you won't really be driving anything (as the foil is not attached). You will need to take care that the "pinned" position corresponds to the foil position that you want.

FWIW the new furler gearbox that we received from Amel is buttersmooth and infinitely easier to use than our original seized gearbox....  I fear that only my left arm will get a workout (outhaul), as the right arm (furling) does not need much effort anymore.  (The new part also has a seal that seems to have completely disintegrated on the old part.. Which makes me think that if you dissasemble and grease the part, it will still need a seal. This is a red annular seal that goes around the base of the foil attachment part as it exits the gearbox. (There is also a neoprene-ish washer inside the foil attachment part to dampen the foil's axial motion?))

Keep us updated on your progress; we will want to refurbish our old gearbox when we have more time. Thanks and good luck,
kelly + ryan
SM233 Iteration
Newport

On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 4:31 PM 'S/V Garulfo' svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 


Hi Derick, Ryan and Kelly, 

We have the same situation with our mizzen gearbox. The horizontal tube is seized; the outer sleeve, the nylon bushing and the inner tube coupling the gears to the winch handle female bit are all solidly stuck together. 
Is there any advice on how to make them work freely again? Is the nylon bushing meant to be solidly coupled to either the outer sleeve or the inner tube?

Also, as a result of that seizure, I think the thread between the horizontal elements and the gearbox appears to have slipped. Any idea if that could be remediated in any way?

Thanks


Thomas
GARULFO
A54-122
Aruba

On Wed, 19 Sep 2018 at 19:18, Ryan Meador ryan.d.meador@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Thanks, Derick.  That's great info, and matches the diagram I received from Amel (which I intend to upload to the files section when I get a chance).  Do you have any idea how the rigger separated the pieces of the tube?  Also, did you simply screw it back in, and it turns freely enough that it doesn't unscrew itself again?


Ryan and Kelly
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA


On Tue, Sep 18, 2018 at 11:37 PM derickgates@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Ryan,

I had the same problem on Brava. The piece in your picture had frozen up, and I needed to take it to a rigger. The rigger was able to remove the inner tube from the outer tube, and clean and regrease it so that then it turned freely. If you then disengage the gearbox from the mizzen foil, you can remove it and see how the piece you have pictured screws into the gearbox. There are only a few threads between the two pieces. While you have the gearbox out, you can grease it too.

Derick Gates
SM2K #400 Brava

Currently on the hard in Antigua


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: mizzen furler failure [2 Attachments]

 

Thomas,

It sounds to me like the best way to repair this issue is to clean and lubricate with the help of a local machine shop. Am I correct?

BTW, I think MCLUBE SailKote Dry Lubricant might be perfect because most other lubricants will remain wet and will attract dust and dirt.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970



On Sat, Nov 3, 2018 at 1:00 PM 'S/V Garulfo' svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

An update :

A local machine shop press the shaft out for us.

Initially they thought they might need to cut and thread a metal plate to match the outer tube thread and provide a holding plate but then they simply grabbed it in a turning machine and pushed the shaft out slowly. 

In the picture you’ll see there isn’t a huge amount of corrosion but enough to block the rotation against the plastic bushing. 

Now I’ll sand it clean, and remount every thing. 

I’m thinking mcLube sailkote dry lube for lubrification of the shaft/bushing interface. Any other advice ?


Thanks

Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Aruba




On Mon, 29 Oct 2018 at 16:37, 'S/V Garulfo' svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi,

Thanks Kelly and Ryan,

We are at the same point of disassembly. So far, soft cleaning of the accessible interface between the plastic sleeve and the metal parts yielded no results; still stuck. 

There is very little way to hold the outer metal tube in place.. And, should I try to get the inner tube pressed out, it’s going to be tricky to hold the outer tube as the flange is tiny. 

I’m really keen to hear what trick Derick’s rigger used to solve the issue.


Thanks
Thomas

GARULFO 
A54-122
Aruba


On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 at 10:48, Kelly Ran naryllek@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Thomas,

We were not able to free the inner tube and outer sleeve. I do not think the bushing should rigidly couple to either part. In any case, the inner tube should turn pretty easily inside the sleeve.

The most dissasembly we could do was unthread the horizontal part all the way and remove the forward part of the inner tube. The inner tube is 2 parts, and the forward section is bolted on.

If you detach the foil, you can screw on the horizontal part again ... the bevel gears will start meshing as you engage more threads, but you won't really be driving anything (as the foil is not attached). You will need to take care that the "pinned" position corresponds to the foil position that you want.

FWIW the new furler gearbox that we received from Amel is buttersmooth and infinitely easier to use than our original seized gearbox...  I fear that only my left arm will get a workout (outhaul), as the right arm (furling) does not need much effort anymore.  (The new part also has a seal that seems to have completely disintegrated on the old part.. Which makes me think that if you dissasemble and grease the part, it will still need a seal. This is a red annular seal that goes around the base of the foil attachment part as it exits the gearbox. (There is also a neoprene-ish washer inside the foil attachment part to dampen the foil's axial motion?))

Keep us updated on your progress; we will want to refurbish our old gearbox when we have more time. Thanks and good luck,
kelly + ryan
SM233 Iteration
Newport

On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 4:31 PM 'S/V Garulfo' svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 


Hi Derick, Ryan and Kelly, 

We have the same situation with our mizzen gearbox. The horizontal tube is seized; the outer sleeve, the nylon bushing and the inner tube coupling the gears to the winch handle female bit are all solidly stuck together. 
Is there any advice on how to make them work freely again? Is the nylon bushing meant to be solidly coupled to either the outer sleeve or the inner tube?

Also, as a result of that seizure, I think the thread between the horizontal elements and the gearbox appears to have slipped. Any idea if that could be remediated in any way?

Thanks


Thomas
GARULFO
A54-122
Aruba

On Wed, 19 Sep 2018 at 19:18, Ryan Meador ryan.d.meador@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Thanks, Derick.  That's great info, and matches the diagram I received from Amel (which I intend to upload to the files section when I get a chance).  Do you have any idea how the rigger separated the pieces of the tube?  Also, did you simply screw it back in, and it turns freely enough that it doesn't unscrew itself again?


Ryan and Kelly
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA


On Tue, Sep 18, 2018 at 11:37 PM derickgates@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Ryan,

I had the same problem on Brava. The piece in your picture had frozen up, and I needed to take it to a rigger. The rigger was able to remove the inner tube from the outer tube, and clean and regrease it so that then it turned freely. If you then disengage the gearbox from the mizzen foil, you can remove it and see how the piece you have pictured screws into the gearbox. There are only a few threads between the two pieces. While you have the gearbox out, you can grease it too.

Derick Gates
SM2K #400 Brava

Currently on the hard in Antigua


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: mizzen furler failure

Sv Garulfo
 

An update :

A local machine shop press the shaft out for us.

Initially they thought they might need to cut and thread a metal plate to match the outer tube thread and provide a holding plate but then they simply grabbed it in a turning machine and pushed the shaft out slowly. 

In the picture you’ll see there isn’t a huge amount of corrosion but enough to block the rotation against the plastic bushing. 

Now I’ll sand it clean, and remount every thing. 

I’m thinking mcLube sailkote dry lube for lubrification of the shaft/bushing interface. Any other advice ?


Thanks

Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Aruba




On Mon, 29 Oct 2018 at 16:37, 'S/V Garulfo' svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi,

Thanks Kelly and Ryan,

We are at the same point of disassembly. So far, soft cleaning of the accessible interface between the plastic sleeve and the metal parts yielded no results; still stuck. 

There is very little way to hold the outer metal tube in place. And, should I try to get the inner tube pressed out, it’s going to be tricky to hold the outer tube as the flange is tiny. 

I’m really keen to hear what trick Derick’s rigger used to solve the issue.


Thanks
Thomas

GARULFO 
A54-122
Aruba


On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 at 10:48, Kelly Ran naryllek@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Thomas,

We were not able to free the inner tube and outer sleeve. I do not think the bushing should rigidly couple to either part. In any case, the inner tube should turn pretty easily inside the sleeve.

The most dissasembly we could do was unthread the horizontal part all the way and remove the forward part of the inner tube. The inner tube is 2 parts, and the forward section is bolted on.

If you detach the foil, you can screw on the horizontal part again ... the bevel gears will start meshing as you engage more threads, but you won't really be driving anything (as the foil is not attached). You will need to take care that the "pinned" position corresponds to the foil position that you want.

FWIW the new furler gearbox that we received from Amel is buttersmooth and infinitely easier to use than our original seized gearbox..  I fear that only my left arm will get a workout (outhaul), as the right arm (furling) does not need much effort anymore.  (The new part also has a seal that seems to have completely disintegrated on the old part. Which makes me think that if you dissasemble and grease the part, it will still need a seal. This is a red annular seal that goes around the base of the foil attachment part as it exits the gearbox. (There is also a neoprene-ish washer inside the foil attachment part to dampen the foil's axial motion?))

Keep us updated on your progress; we will want to refurbish our old gearbox when we have more time. Thanks and good luck,
kelly + ryan
SM233 Iteration
Newport

On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 4:31 PM 'S/V Garulfo' svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 


Hi Derick, Ryan and Kelly, 

We have the same situation with our mizzen gearbox. The horizontal tube is seized; the outer sleeve, the nylon bushing and the inner tube coupling the gears to the winch handle female bit are all solidly stuck together. 
Is there any advice on how to make them work freely again? Is the nylon bushing meant to be solidly coupled to either the outer sleeve or the inner tube?

Also, as a result of that seizure, I think the thread between the horizontal elements and the gearbox appears to have slipped. Any idea if that could be remediated in any way?

Thanks


Thomas
GARULFO
A54-122
Aruba

On Wed, 19 Sep 2018 at 19:18, Ryan Meador ryan.d.meador@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Thanks, Derick.  That's great info, and matches the diagram I received from Amel (which I intend to upload to the files section when I get a chance).  Do you have any idea how the rigger separated the pieces of the tube?  Also, did you simply screw it back in, and it turns freely enough that it doesn't unscrew itself again?


Ryan and Kelly
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA


On Tue, Sep 18, 2018 at 11:37 PM derickgates@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Ryan,

I had the same problem on Brava. The piece in your picture had frozen up, and I needed to take it to a rigger. The rigger was able to remove the inner tube from the outer tube, and clean and regrease it so that then it turned freely. If you then disengage the gearbox from the mizzen foil, you can remove it and see how the piece you have pictured screws into the gearbox. There are only a few threads between the two pieces. While you have the gearbox out, you can grease it too.

Derick Gates
SM2K #400 Brava

Currently on the hard in Antigua


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Contact with Amel [1 Attachment]

ahmet kipcak
 

Hi, Bill
Thanks for you help.

Ahmet KİPCAK




Bill Rouse @billrouse [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> şunları yazdı (2 Kas 2018 22:27):



contact sav@...<mailto:sav@...> and follow the attached.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy<https://theamelschool.blogspot.com/p/texas-navy.html>
Commander Emeritus
Amel School<http://www.amelschool.com/> http://www.amelschool.com<http://www.amelschool.com/>
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970
My Calendar<https://theamelschool.blogspot.com/p/calendar.html>
[https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1iOjHIrA_JpHr-Y2umO5HOZpquKHqsc-M&export=download]


On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 10:33 AM ahmet kipcak @Akipcak<mailto:ahmetkipcak@hotmail..com> [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...<mailto:amelyachtowners@...>> wrote:


Hello,
I tried contacting Amel via their email adress “ amel.med@...<mailto:amel.med@...>” to supply some spare parts for my boat, but it has been over a week and still there has been no response on their part. I recently purchased my boat on March 2018, this was my first mail to Amel, is there a procedure that I am not aware of to get in contact with Amel.
Thankyou for taking the time
Sincerely
Ahmet Kipcak



<Ordering parts from Amel.jpg>


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Suddenly screaming noise from the bowthruster and not moving the prop anymore

 

Great!

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970



On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 12:09 PM 'Willem J. Kroes' kavanga@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Amelia be,

The bow thruster worked very well.  Thanks to all of you. My boat is now in the marina of the Real Club de Regattas in Cartagena.

Best regards,

Willem Kroes

SM #351 KAVANGA

Op 2 nov. 2018 16:59 schreef "Bill Rouse brouse@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>:
 

Willem,

Good luck to you.
Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970



On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 4:21 AM 'Willem J. Kroes' kavanga@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Thanks you all for the information. In about two hours my boat will swim again and we will see if the bow thruster works again. Anyway I have now a little more confidence knowing that it is normal to move the prop connected to the motor without power by hand.

Best regards,

Willem Kroes

SM #351 KAVANGA

Op 2 nov. 2018 05:44 schreef "Bill Rouse brouse@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>:
 

Yes,

It should turn easily by hand and turn the motor. I thought he was saying that the propeller was turning, but NOT the vertical shaft or motor. 


Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

On Thu, Nov 1, 2018, 16:37 Stephen Davis flyboyscd@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@... wrote:
 

When everything is correct, it should turn by hand fairly easily. What you do not want is the propeller to wobble on the shaft, which would mean the bearings inside are bad. 

Regards,

Steve Davis
Aloha SM72
Hawaii

On Nov 1, 2018, at 05:51, Ian Park parkianj@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Mine also turns by hand on the Santorin. Maybe it’s a sign that previously the bearings wear binding quite tightly?
Ian
Ocean Hobo SN96


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Contact with Amel

 

contact sav@... and follow the attached.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970



On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 10:33 AM ahmet kipcak ahmetkipcak@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hello,
I tried contacting Amel via their email adress “ amel.med@...” to supply some spare parts for my boat, but it has been over a week and still there has been no response on their part. I recently purchased my boat on March 2018, this was my first mail to Amel, is there a procedure that I am not aware of to get in contact with Amel.
Thankyou for taking the time
Sincerely
Ahmet Kipcak


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Main outhaul rope

Danny Simms
 

Wow Bill Kinney.
that is a load of information. Thanks. It reveals a mine field. I.m going to print this and take it with me to my supplier.
Regards
Danny
SM 299 Ocean Pearl

On Sat, 3 Nov 2018 at 05:27, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Exactly true.  


New England Ropes alone makes at least a dozen different ropes that contain Dyneema.  Some of them are so slippery then don't even work on winches, others are covered with polyester, or have blended fibers, and will work well in friction critical applications.

"Dyneema" is just the brand name for a particular brand of polyethylene fiber.  "Spectra," "Vectran," "Technora," "Zylon," and "Kevlar" (among others) are brand names for different chemistries of very high strength, low stretch fibers.  Not all of them are as slippery as others, and not all of them are usable, uncovered, in full time exposure to sunlight.  Kevlar, for example is not UV stable and must be covered if in the sun. Dyneema and Spectra are UV stable, but in raw form are extremely slippery.  To be useful on a winch they must either have a cover, or have other fibers blended into the yarn to increase the coefficient of friction.  

Just to make things even more complex, some high tech line sun covers are really JUST sun covers, and will slide along the core if put under load on a winch or in a clutch.  This is more of a problem with the polyethylene fibers (Dyneema and Spectra) than the fibers like Kevlar and Vectran. 

On the Amel main outhaul line, and on the main traveller control line, the type of construction of the line, and the material the surface is made of are more important to performance than the exact chemistry of the core fiber.

When shopping for a high-tech line always look for one that is specifically recommended by the manufacturer for use in clutches and winches. A hint: the phrase, "abrasion resistant" is marketing-speak for "very slippery." 

Some of these high tech fibers also suffer long term damage when making tight turns around the small sheaves used in our systems. Looking for those lines that are recommended for this is also a good idea.
  
Just looking in New England Rope's listings, "Poly Tec" or "Endura Braid" is a good choice in Dyneema core, and V100 in Vectran. Other manufacturers will have their own names and brands for lines of similar performance.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Norfolk, VA, USA
Following the cold front offshore--and south--tomorrow!


---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

Danny,
Today, I learned that Dyneema rope is made with a Dyneema braid outer sheath and also with a Dyneema core and a Polyester braid outer sheath. This is probably the reason for the mixed results from owners using Dyneema. 

I had the outhaul line very tight 12+ years and never overhauled the outhaul gearbox. I did have a new spare waiting for a failure and maybe that is the reason it never failed...either that, or the famous Danny Simms grease access to the gearbox!😀

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970





Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Main outhaul rope

Danny Simms
 

Thanks Lior.
Danny

On Sat, 3 Nov 2018 at 05:12, sharona246@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi All


Here is the way AMEL advice to tight the rope:
To be able to stretch the line, furl the sail rather tight inside the mast and use the outhaul motor several time.

I changed this rope (delivered from AMEL) a few years ago and it works perfect until today.

Lior
AMEL 54, SHARONA



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Main outhaul rope

Danny Simms
 

Hi Bill,
I would think mine is the dyneema sheath, it feels slippery. Strange they do that, I would think the polyester sheath would be cheaper. As to tightness causing damage. It wouldn't be the gearbox as the tension is on the pulleys not the gearbox. The vulnerable one would be the turning block I think. The word tight can be subjective, my tight and your tight may be different things. 
Thanks for your input (again)
Regards
Danny
SM 299 Ocean Pearl

On Sat, 3 Nov 2018 at 03:18, Bill Rouse brouse@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Danny,
Today, I learned that Dyneema rope is made with a Dyneema braid outer sheath and also with a Dyneema core and a Polyester braid outer sheath. This is probably the reason for the mixed results from owners using Dyneema. 

I had the outhaul line very tight 12+ years and never overhauled the outhaul gearbox. I did have a new spare waiting for a failure and maybe that is the reason it never failed...either that, or the famous Danny Simms grease access to the gearbox!😀

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970



On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 4:52 AM Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Bill,

I was on the boat yesterday and tried tightening to line. While it had been pretty tight before I did manage to get a bit more out of it. It is tighter now than I think would be good for bearings. I will try it next time I go out and see if it still slips.

Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 02 November 2018 at 01:57 "Bill Rouse brouse@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Thanks for that. I guess some Dyneema rope is slipperier than other. I will start recommending Vectran.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School  www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

On Wed, Oct 31, 2018, 19:28 Danny Simms sailorman.ds@... [amelyachtowners] < amelyachtowners@... wrote:
 

 

Hi Bill, yes bar tight. And I couldn't believe how fast and far it slipped in 18 knots of wind Thanks for the page
Regards
Danny
SM 299
Ocean pearl

On Thu, 1 Nov 2018 at 09:23, Bill Rouse brouse@... [amelyachtowners] < amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

 

Danny, maybe it wasn't tight enough. I know at least 10 others that have not had the problem. Did you use the outhaul to really get it tight?

I am sending you a page out of my book.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970



On Wed, Oct 31, 2018 at 2:14 PM Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] < amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

 

Hi Bill,

yes I tried to get Kevlar and had to take dyneema 12mm. I fitted it very tightly but useless, as soon as the breeze came up it slipped dramatically. I agree with you about it diminishing in diameter but I think the casing is very slick too. It would seem 14mm might be a try but I doubt if it will work. 

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean pearl

On 01 November 2018 at 07:37 "Bill Rouse brouse@... [amelyachtowners]" < amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Danny,

Amel used Kevlar 10mm on the SM. It is nearly impossible to find.

Amel suggests 12mm Dyneema:
The issue was not with the strength because Dyneema line is stronger than Kevlar. The issue is that most rope manufacturers are taking fiber from the middle of the rope and 10mm isn't really 10mm anymore. I purchased some 10mm that I could squeeze with my fingers to 7mm. Look at the Anderson Line Tender. You will see that if you can squeeze 10mm to 7mm, the line will certainly slip.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970



On Wed, Oct 31, 2018 at 12:31 PM Danny Simms sailorman.ds@... [amelyachtowners] < amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

 

Hi All,
A little while ago a number of you posted on replacing the control line for the mainsail out haul. I remember dyneema was not successful. Can some one remind me of what type was the best.
Regards
Danny
SM 299 Ocean Pearl

 

 

 

 


 


 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


 


 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Main outhaul rope

Danny Simms
 

Thanks Paul,
I agree there may be a risk of damage by being too tight. I have tightened my dyneema 12mm to see if it stops the slipping but I dont want that much load on long term. I will try vectran as you did.
Regards
Danny
SM 299
Ocean Pearl

On Fri, 2 Nov 2018 at 19:07, osterberg.paul.l@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Danny

We bought a 12 mm Vectran line with a cover claimed to be high friction to avoid the slip, still it happens that it slip but very seldom now. If I would buy again I would try 12 mm Dyneema core, the creep and elongation would be very low.  A problem with to tight might be wear and tear on the bearings.
Paul on SY Kerpa SM259, in Hampton Virginia waiting for a weather window for Antigua
 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Contact with Amel

Ann-Sofie Svanberg <kanalmamman@...>
 

Send it directly to main office on the address sav@... instead.
Be very clear in what you are ordering, parts no is a benifit. Also attach your model and hull no.

Regards
Ann-Sofie, S/Y Lady Annila, SM232, 1998

Skickat från min iPad

2 nov. 2018 kl. 15:43 skrev ahmet kipcak ahmetkipcak@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Hello,
I tried contacting Amel via their email adress “ amel.med@...” to supply some spare parts for my boat, but it has been over a week and still there has been no response on their part. I recently purchased my boat on March 2018, this was my first mail to Amel, is there a procedure that I am not aware of to get in contact with Amel.
Thankyou for taking the time
Sincerely
Ahmet Kipcak


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Suddenly screaming noise from the bowthruster and not moving the prop anymore

Willem Kroes
 

Hi Amelia be,

The bow thruster worked very well.  Thanks to all of you. My boat is now in the marina of the Real Club de Regattas in Cartagena.

Best regards,

Willem Kroes

SM #351 KAVANGA

Op 2 nov. 2018 16:59 schreef "Bill Rouse brouse@... [amelyachtowners]" :
 

Willem,

Good luck to you.
Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970



On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 4:21 AM 'Willem J. Kroes' kavanga@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Thanks you all for the information. In about two hours my boat will swim again and we will see if the bow thruster works again. Anyway I have now a little more confidence knowing that it is normal to move the prop connected to the motor without power by hand.

Best regards,

Willem Kroes

SM #351 KAVANGA

Op 2 nov. 2018 05:44 schreef "Bill Rouse brouse@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>:
 

Yes,

It should turn easily by hand and turn the motor. I thought he was saying that the propeller was turning, but NOT the vertical shaft or motor. 


Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

On Thu, Nov 1, 2018, 16:37 Stephen Davis flyboyscd@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@... wrote:
 

When everything is correct, it should turn by hand fairly easily. What you do not want is the propeller to wobble on the shaft, which would mean the bearings inside are bad. 

Regards,

Steve Davis
Aloha SM72
Hawaii

On Nov 1, 2018, at 05:51, Ian Park parkianj@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Mine also turns by hand on the Santorin. Maybe it’s a sign that previously the bearings wear binding quite tightly?
Ian
Ocean Hobo SN96


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Main outhaul rope

greatketch@...
 

Exactly true.  

New England Ropes alone makes at least a dozen different ropes that contain Dyneema.  Some of them are so slippery then don't even work on winches, others are covered with polyester, or have blended fibers, and will work well in friction critical applications.

"Dyneema" is just the brand name for a particular brand of polyethylene fiber.  "Spectra," "Vectran," "Technora," "Zylon," and "Kevlar" (among others) are brand names for different chemistries of very high strength, low stretch fibers.  Not all of them are as slippery as others, and not all of them are usable, uncovered, in full time exposure to sunlight.  Kevlar, for example is not UV stable and must be covered if in the sun. Dyneema and Spectra are UV stable, but in raw form are extremely slippery.  To be useful on a winch they must either have a cover, or have other fibers blended into the yarn to increase the coefficient of friction.  

Just to make things even more complex, some high tech line sun covers are really JUST sun covers, and will slide along the core if put under load on a winch or in a clutch.  This is more of a problem with the polyethylene fibers (Dyneema and Spectra) than the fibers like Kevlar and Vectran. 

On the Amel main outhaul line, and on the main traveller control line, the type of construction of the line, and the material the surface is made of are more important to performance than the exact chemistry of the core fiber.

When shopping for a high-tech line always look for one that is specifically recommended by the manufacturer for use in clutches and winches. A hint: the phrase, "abrasion resistant" is marketing-speak for "very slippery." 

Some of these high tech fibers also suffer long term damage when making tight turns around the small sheaves used in our systems. Looking for those lines that are recommended for this is also a good idea.
  
Just looking in New England Rope's listings, "Poly Tec" or "Endura Braid" is a good choice in Dyneema core, and V100 in Vectran. Other manufacturers will have their own names and brands for lines of similar performance.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Norfolk, VA, USA
Following the cold front offshore--and south--tomorrow!


---In amelyachtowners@..., <brouse@...> wrote :

Danny,
Today, I learned that Dyneema rope is made with a Dyneema braid outer sheath and also with a Dyneema core and a Polyester braid outer sheath. This is probably the reason for the mixed results from owners using Dyneema. 

I had the outhaul line very tight 12+ years and never overhauled the outhaul gearbox. I did have a new spare waiting for a failure and maybe that is the reason it never failed...either that, or the famous Danny Simms grease access to the gearbox!😀

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970





Re: Main outhaul rope

sharona246@...
 

Hi All

Here is the way AMEL advice to tight the rope:
To be able to stretch the line, furl the sail rather tight inside the mast and use the outhaul motor several time.

I changed this rope (delivered from AMEL) a few years ago and it works perfect until today.

Lior
AMEL 54, SHARONA



Re: Diaphragm Bilge Pump failure.

Thomas Peacock
 

We have just replaced our original bilge pump with the Johnson 32 also. Plumbing (my least favorite job on the boat) was challenging. Not sure where you are (US, EU, etc), which makes a difference in terms of availability of various fittings. Our local, quite small, West Marine in Maryland, USA, carried Marine East part # 1867548, 1/14” to 1 1/2” reducer. Even that was challenging, still a big leak in one spot where metric met US size, which I fixed by wrapping the male end with several go rounds of Rig Wrap sail tape which worked like a charm.

Be careful, the manual states that if you mount the pump vertically (as was the old pump), you must have it oriented in a certain position, can’t remember which, but again, the manual is clear. That makes running the hoses more challenging with lots of bends and angles. 

So far, works like a charm, very powerful.

Tom Peacock
Aletes, SM 240, Rock Hall, Maryland, heading for St Augustine Florida


Contact with Amel

ahmet kipcak
 

Hello,
I tried contacting Amel via their email adress “ amel.med@...” to supply some spare parts for my boat, but it has been over a week and still there has been no response on their part. I recently purchased my boat on March 2018, this was my first mail to Amel, is there a procedure that I am not aware of to get in contact with Amel.
Thankyou for taking the time
Sincerely
Ahmet Kipcak


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Main outhaul rope

 

Danny,
Today, I learned that Dyneema rope is made with a Dyneema braid outer sheath and also with a Dyneema core and a Polyester braid outer sheath. This is probably the reason for the mixed results from owners using Dyneema. 

I had the outhaul line very tight 12+ years and never overhauled the outhaul gearbox. I did have a new spare waiting for a failure and maybe that is the reason it never failed...either that, or the famous Danny Simms grease access to the gearbox!😀

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970



On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 4:52 AM Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Bill,

I was on the boat yesterday and tried tightening to line. While it had been pretty tight before I did manage to get a bit more out of it. It is tighter now than I think would be good for bearings. I will try it next time I go out and see if it still slips.

Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 02 November 2018 at 01:57 "Bill Rouse brouse@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Thanks for that. I guess some Dyneema rope is slipperier than other. I will start recommending Vectran.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School  www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

On Wed, Oct 31, 2018, 19:28 Danny Simms sailorman.ds@... [amelyachtowners] < amelyachtowners@... wrote:
 

 

Hi Bill, yes bar tight. And I couldn't believe how fast and far it slipped in 18 knots of wind Thanks for the page
Regards
Danny
SM 299
Ocean pearl

On Thu, 1 Nov 2018 at 09:23, Bill Rouse brouse@... [amelyachtowners] < amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

 

Danny, maybe it wasn't tight enough. I know at least 10 others that have not had the problem. Did you use the outhaul to really get it tight?

I am sending you a page out of my book.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970



On Wed, Oct 31, 2018 at 2:14 PM Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] < amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

 

Hi Bill,

yes I tried to get Kevlar and had to take dyneema 12mm. I fitted it very tightly but useless, as soon as the breeze came up it slipped dramatically. I agree with you about it diminishing in diameter but I think the casing is very slick too. It would seem 14mm might be a try but I doubt if it will work. 

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean pearl

On 01 November 2018 at 07:37 "Bill Rouse brouse@... [amelyachtowners]" < amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Danny,

Amel used Kevlar 10mm on the SM. It is nearly impossible to find.

Amel suggests 12mm Dyneema:
The issue was not with the strength because Dyneema line is stronger than Kevlar. The issue is that most rope manufacturers are taking fiber from the middle of the rope and 10mm isn't really 10mm anymore. I purchased some 10mm that I could squeeze with my fingers to 7mm. Look at the Anderson Line Tender. You will see that if you can squeeze 10mm to 7mm, the line will certainly slip.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970



On Wed, Oct 31, 2018 at 12:31 PM Danny Simms sailorman.ds@... [amelyachtowners] < amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

 

Hi All,
A little while ago a number of you posted on replacing the control line for the mainsail out haul. I remember dyneema was not successful. Can some one remind me of what type was the best.
Regards
Danny
SM 299 Ocean Pearl

 

 

 

 


 


 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


 


 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Suddenly screaming noise from the bowthruster and not moving the prop anymore

 

Willem,

Good luck to you.
Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970



On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 4:21 AM 'Willem J. Kroes' kavanga@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Thanks you all for the information. In about two hours my boat will swim again and we will see if the bow thruster works again. Anyway I have now a little more confidence knowing that it is normal to move the prop connected to the motor without power by hand.

Best regards,

Willem Kroes

SM #351 KAVANGA

Op 2 nov. 2018 05:44 schreef "Bill Rouse brouse@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>:
 

Yes,

It should turn easily by hand and turn the motor. I thought he was saying that the propeller was turning, but NOT the vertical shaft or motor. 


Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

On Thu, Nov 1, 2018, 16:37 Stephen Davis flyboyscd@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@... wrote:
 

When everything is correct, it should turn by hand fairly easily. What you do not want is the propeller to wobble on the shaft, which would mean the bearings inside are bad. 

Regards,

Steve Davis
Aloha SM72
Hawaii

On Nov 1, 2018, at 05:51, Ian Park parkianj@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Mine also turns by hand on the Santorin. Maybe it’s a sign that previously the bearings wear binding quite tightly?
Ian
Ocean Hobo SN96