Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Volvo D2-75 for a SuperMaramu

greatketch@...
 

Graham,

Like you I think a lot of sailboats are significantly overpowered because that is what people think they want.  

Your thoughts on the Beta 60 are interesting, and I'll follow carefully what you end up doing and how it works for you. None-electric and non-turbo is nice.  The weight is also a good match.  Just a couple things to be sure of... 

The Volvo specifications I have are rated at the output shaft of the transmission, be sure that the Beta HP ratings are the same.  You can easily lose 5% in the transmission. and another 3-4% in the C-drive.

The Beta 60 lists its HO at 2700 as 56HP, the Volvo graph I have shows theTMD22 as about 62 at 2800.  That's enough difference that it is starting to matter.

For what is is worth (and it's not all that much) using standard sizing calculations, and assuming a fully loaded displacement of 38,000 lbs and a LWL of 41.25ft, the HP needed AT THE PROPELLER for a SM looks like this:

6.4 kts 31.3HP
7.0 kts 40.6HP
7.4 kts 47.6HP
7.7 kts 54.1HP
8.0 kts 61.2HP
8.5 kts 72.0HP

I'd add 4% to account for loss in the C-drive if the engine is rated for  transmission output.  If the engine was rated for output from its shaft, I'd add 10%.

My thinking is I'd start to worry that the Beta60 might be cutting it a bit close on the lower end... depending on exactly what you want your engine to do.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA


---In amelyachtowners@..., <crwggb@...> wrote :

The answer to all this is in the torque curves. As you say Danny 2800 is the max on the Amel TMD22A installation. This effectively limits its max OP to approx 60HP. I have been very happy with this performance for the past 14 years as are many other owners. Looking at the torque curve for the TMD you will see max torque is at around 2500 RPM, hence  its susceptibility to a fowled prop/bottom. Compare that to the hugely bigger torque at similar RPM on the D2-75 and that is why it will push through to its advertised rpm despite the fowling.

Amel should really have rebadged the TMD22A with a 60HP label.... but of course thats not what sells boats! Given that I've been very happy with a "60HP" engine for all these years its the main reason I'm looking at the BETA 60. It has no turbo and no electronic control boxes and will fit very comfortably in the space. At cruising RPM (2000 to 2100) that will give 7kts it produces 170nm torque compared to the TMD22A...same RPM but153nm torque. The beta tops out at 2700 rpm. So essentially it does exactly what the tmd22a has been doing all these years...but without the turbo.

The BETA man is coming to the boat on Monday I'll keep you posted on how it all goes.

Graham


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rocna anchor

Arthur Sundqvist
 

Thank you for sharing your resersh and knowledge.
Kind regards
Arthur
SM435. Vista

Skickat från min iPhone

16 nov. 2018 kl. 14:56 skrev greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

10mm G40 (or 3/8" HT)  


If you want a slightly stronger chain look for Maggi Aqua4 brand 10mm chain that will work as well. There might be other brands that boast higher than "standard" strengths as well.

When sizing chain you can size it "forward" or "backward."  If you size it "forward" you calculate the size chain you need to hold your boat in the worst conditions you ever expect to anchor in.  Amel selected 10mm chain, and this seems a good choice to me.  With a good stretchy snubber, and care on selection of connecting bits 10mm chain should be fine for this boat.

Sizing an anchor "backward" is using the maximum holding power of the anchor in good conditions then using that number to figure chain size.  This is how Rocna comes up with their recommendation of 11mm for a 40kg anchor.

Most cruising boat s will oversize their anchors at least a little to help when anchored in bottoms that are less than ideal.  There really is no significant benefit to increase the chain strength as well.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Rocna anchor

Barry Connor
 

Highly recommend the 40kg Rocna. After bending the shaft on the original 30kg Bugel (see YouTube How to straighten a bent boat anchor) the Bugel bent whilst being dragged in 40 knot winds. The new 40kg Rocha sets and has stayed put in 40 knot winds. The Rocha fits perfectly on the starboard double roller with the straightened Bugel next to it. We slept peaceful nights this last 6 months anchoring all through the Adriatic. Would say the 40kg Rocha is perfect for the AMEL.

Barry and Penny
“Lady Penelope II”
Amel 54  #17
Marina di Ragusa.  Sicily


On Nov 16, 2018, at 11:58, trifin@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Arthur,
We have a 54 not SM. We ditched the original 30kg Bugel and replaced with 40kg Rocna. No change needed to bowroller on 54. Not so pretty, but now we have an anchor that works reliably for us. 10mm chain.
Dean
SY Stella A54 #154


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rocna anchor

greatketch@...
 

10mm G40 (or 3/8" HT)  

If you want a slightly stronger chain look for Maggi Aqua4 brand 10mm chain that will work as well. There might be other brands that boast higher than "standard" strengths as well.

When sizing chain you can size it "forward" or "backward."  If you size it "forward" you calculate the size chain you need to hold your boat in the worst conditions you ever expect to anchor in.  Amel selected 10mm chain, and this seems a good choice to me.  With a good stretchy snubber, and care on selection of connecting bits 10mm chain should be fine for this boat.

Sizing an anchor "backward" is using the maximum holding power of the anchor in good conditions then using that number to figure chain size.  This is how Rocna comes up with their recommendation of 11mm for a 40kg anchor.

Most cruising boats will oversize their anchors at least a little to help when anchored in bottoms that are less than ideal.  There really is no significant benefit to increase the chain strength as well.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rocna anchor

robin hutter
 

on my old Super Maramu built in 1991, hull number 56 the 40 kg Rocna did not fit therefore I fit a 33 kg which worked perfectly.

fair winds
Robin
Amel 54 #54 (2007)
Carré d’As


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Am Donnerstag, November 15, 2018, 23:07 schrieb Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] :

 

I am very happy with my 40kg Rocna.  Snugs up nicely on the bow roller, sets and holds better than anything else I’ve used.


Kent
SM243
Kristy
Still stuck in snowy rainy cold Maryland...wondering if we’ll ever get out of here.

Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy
USA cell: 828-234-6819

On Nov 15, 2018, at 3:04 PM, arthur@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

You who use The Rocna anchor and are sailing an SM wich size are working best?


Kind regards

Arthur Sundqvist

SM 435, Vista



Re: Rocna anchor

Dean Gillies
 

Hi Arthur,
We have a 54 not SM. We ditched the original 30kg Bugel and replaced with 40kg Rocna. No change needed to bowroller on 54. Not so pretty, but now we have an anchor that works reliably for us. 10mm chain.
Dean
SY Stella A54 #154


Re: Power draw at anchor

Gary Wells
 

I did put a spst switch at the fuel gauge to eliminate that draw. As well, I have made the "permanent" converters (24v/12v) switchable.
I had one other mystery draw and that was high-water alarm/bilge pump switch which had an electronic sensor and drew a small current all the time.

At the start of my quest I had about 0.38a draw but it's a zero now when everything is shut down.

If you have any fixtures that have USB charging ports, they will draw a little with their converters as well. 

Finally (I had to chase a 12v leak as well) if there is any build up of calcium or other corrosion on connectors to pumps or other hardware that might be a way for tiny amperage leaks to find a way to ground. 

Gary W.
s/v Adagio, SM 209
Gran Canaria


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Volvo D2-75 for a SuperMaramu

michael winand
 

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. If you don't mind sharing with us what a beta60 is going to cost for the engine above earth. and what panel you chose.
 In your area of the world .
I  think many of us who are going through the process would be grateful. 

On Fri, 16 Nov 2018 at 18:37, crwggb@... [amelyachtowners]
wrote:
 

The answer to all this is in the torque curves. As you say Danny 2800 is the max on the Amel TMD22A installation. This effectively limits its max OP to approx 60HP. I have been very happy with this performance for the past 14 years as are many other owners. Looking at the torque curve for the TMD you will see max torque is at around 2500 RPM, hence  its susceptibility to a fowled prop/bottom. Compare that to the hugely bigger torque at similar RPM on the D2-75 and that is why it will push through to its advertised rpm despite the fowling.


Amel should really have rebadged the TMD22A with a 60HP label.... but of course thats not what sells boats! Given that I've been very happy with a "60HP" engine for all these years its the main reason I'm looking at the BETA 60. It has no turbo and no electronic control boxes and will fit very comfortably in the space. At cruising RPM (2000 to 2100) that will give 7kts it produces 170nm torque compared to the TMD22A...same RPM but153nm torque. The beta tops out at 2700 rpm. So essentially it does exactly what the tmd22a has been doing all these years...but without the turbo.

The BETA man is coming to the boat on Monday I'll keep you posted on how it all goes.

Graham


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rocna anchor

Arthur Sundqvist
 

10. Or. 12mm. Chain?

Arthur
SM 435. Vista


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Volvo D2-75 for a SuperMaramu

Graham Boyd
 

The answer to all this is in the torque curves. As you say Danny 2800 is the max on the Amel TMD22A installation. This effectively limits its max OP to approx 60HP. I have been very happy with this performance for the past 14 years as are many other owners. Looking at the torque curve for the TMD you will see max torque is at around 2500 RPM, hence  its susceptibility to a fowled prop/bottom. Compare that to the hugely bigger torque at similar RPM on the D2-75 and that is why it will push through to its advertised rpm despite the fowling.

Amel should really have rebadged the TMD22A with a 60HP label.... but of course thats not what sells boats! Given that I've been very happy with a "60HP" engine for all these years its the main reason I'm looking at the BETA 60. It has no turbo and no electronic control boxes and will fit very comfortably in the space. At cruising RPM (2000 to 2100) that will give 7kts it produces 170nm torque compared to the TMD22A...same RPM but153nm torque. The beta tops out at 2700 rpm. So essentially it does exactly what the tmd22a has been doing all these years...but without the turbo.

The BETA man is coming to the boat on Monday I'll keep you posted on how it all goes.

Graham


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rocna anchor

Arthur Sundqvist
 

Thank you. Here in. Stockholm winter is coming.
Do you use 12 or 10 mm chain ?

Kind Regards
Arthur
SM 435. Vista


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rocna anchor

Arthur Sundqvist
 

Thank you. Bill for always thinking two steps ahead.
12 or 10 mm chain???
Best
Arthur
SM 435, Vista


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rocna anchor

Arthur Sundqvist
 

Thank you. Sounds. Good. Do you har 10 or 12 mm chain?
Arthur
SM 435 Vista


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rocna anchor

James Studdart
 

We also use a 40kg rocna. Flawless, we’ve never dragged once it’s set.

Cheers,
James.
SeaBean, SM344

On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 17:39 Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

I made a mock-up out of heavy cardboard using full sized drawings from Rocna before ordering.

Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy
USA cell: 828-234-6819


On Nov 15, 2018, at 5:17 PM, Bill Rouse brouse@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Please remember that not all bow rollers are the same on all SMs.



On Thu, Nov 15, 2018 at 4:07 PM Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

I am very happy with my 40kg Rocna.  Snugs up nicely on the bow roller, sets and holds better than anything else I’ve used.


Kent
SM243
Kristy
Still stuck in snowy rainy cold Maryland...wondering if we’ll ever get out of here.

Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy
USA cell: 828-234-6819

On Nov 15, 2018, at 3:04 PM, arthur@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

You who use The Rocna anchor and are sailing an SM wich size are working best?


Kind regards

Arthur Sundqvist

SM 435, Vista



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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rocna anchor

karkauai
 

I made a mock-up out of heavy cardboard using full sized drawings from Rocna before ordering.

Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy
USA cell: 828-234-6819

On Nov 15, 2018, at 5:17 PM, Bill Rouse brouse@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Please remember that not all bow rollers are the same on all SMs.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970



On Thu, Nov 15, 2018 at 4:07 PM Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

I am very happy with my 40kg Rocna.  Snugs up nicely on the bow roller, sets and holds better than anything else I’ve used.


Kent
SM243
Kristy
Still stuck in snowy rainy cold Maryland...wondering if we’ll ever get out of here.

Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy
USA cell: 828-234-6819

On Nov 15, 2018, at 3:04 PM, arthur@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

You who use The Rocna anchor and are sailing an SM wich size are working best?


Kind regards

Arthur Sundqvist

SM 435, Vista



Re: Rocna anchor

greatketch@...
 

Arthur,

Everyone I know of who uses a Rocna on a Super Maramu uses a 40kg/88lb model.

The next size smaller is a 33kg, which is on the small side, and the next size larger is a 55kg which is getting very large to fit on the bow.


Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Wash your- Main outhaul rope

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Thanks Eric. I have bought another dyneema 12mm line with a more abrasive outer. I will try that but thanks for the tip.
Regards
Danny
Sm 299 ocean pearl

On 16/11/2018 11:06, "eric kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

If you have Dyneema, try washing it in a porous bag in a washing machine.
The fabrication process makes the surface "oily' . Once washed it is much more useful and not so slippery.
Fair winds,
eric
Sm 376 Kimberlite.
Simpson Bay St Maarten


On Thu, Nov 01, 2018 at 01:34 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 

Hi Bill,

I was on the boat yesterday and tried tightening to line. While it had been pretty tight before I did manage to get a bit more out of it. It is tighter now than I think would be good for bearings. I will try it next time I go out and see if it still slips.

Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 02 November 2018 at 01:57 "Bill Rouse brouse@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Thanks for that. I guess some Dyneema rope is slipperier than other. I will start recommending Vectran.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School  www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

On Wed, Oct 31, 2018, 19:28 Danny Simms sailorman.ds@... [amelyachtowners] < amelyachtowners@... wrote:
 

 

Hi Bill, yes bar tight. And I couldn't believe how fast and far it slipped in 18 knots of wind Thanks for the page
Regards
Danny
SM 299
Ocean pearl

On Thu, 1 Nov 2018 at 09:23, Bill Rouse brouse@... [amelyachtowners] < amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

 

Danny, maybe it wasn't tight enough. I know at least 10 others that have not had the problem. Did you use the outhaul to really get it tight?

I am sending you a page out of my book.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970



On Wed, Oct 31, 2018 at 2:14 PM Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] < amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

 

Hi Bill,

yes I tried to get Kevlar and had to take dyneema 12mm. I fitted it very tightly but useless, as soon as the breeze came up it slipped dramatically. I agree with you about it diminishing in diameter but I think the casing is very slick too. It would seem 14mm might be a try but I doubt if it will work. 

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean pearl

On 01 November 2018 at 07:37 "Bill Rouse brouse@... [amelyachtowners]" < amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Danny,

Amel used Kevlar 10mm on the SM. It is nearly impossible to find.

Amel suggests 12mm Dyneema:
The issue was not with the strength because Dyneema line is stronger than Kevlar. The issue is that most rope manufacturers are taking fiber from the middle of the rope and 10mm isn't really 10mm anymore. I purchased some 10mm that I could squeeze with my fingers to 7mm. Look at the Anderson Line Tender. You will see that if you can squeeze 10mm to 7mm, the line will certainly slip.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970



On Wed, Oct 31, 2018 at 12:31 PM Danny Simms sailorman.ds@... [amelyachtowners] < amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

 

Hi All,
A little while ago a number of you posted on replacing the control line for the mainsail out haul. I remember dyneema was not successful. Can some one remind me of what type was the best.
Regards
Danny
SM 299 Ocean Pearl

 

 

 

 


 


 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


 


 



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rocna anchor

 

Please remember that not all bow rollers are the same on all SMs.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970



On Thu, Nov 15, 2018 at 4:07 PM Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

I am very happy with my 40kg Rocna.  Snugs up nicely on the bow roller, sets and holds better than anything else I’ve used.


Kent
SM243
Kristy
Still stuck in snowy rainy cold Maryland...wondering if we’ll ever get out of here.

Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy
USA cell: 828-234-6819

On Nov 15, 2018, at 3:04 PM, arthur@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

You who use The Rocna anchor and are sailing an SM wich size are working best?


Kind regards

Arthur Sundqvist

SM 435, Vista



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Volvo D2-75 for a SuperMaramu

John Clark
 

Agree with Dan, my TMD-22 4500hrs at 2016 survey with clean hull and prop maxed at 2750rpm at 7.5kts.  Just before haulout this year with  some minor hull growth, and a few barnacles on the fixed prop she was down to 2400 rpm and 5 kts top speed.  After we relaunched with fresh paint and clean prop she was right back to survey performance.    If the new Volvo has a computer I would rather stick with the TMD-22 or look for something without a computer.   The TMD-22 may not be as high performance as a brand new engine but it is reliable at least it has been for me the last two years.

John Clark
SV Annie SM 37
Le Marin


On Thu, Nov 15, 2018 at 2:58 PM Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 


---------- Original Message ----------
I got a notice this had not gone through, so here again

Danny


Hi Graham,

another year and still fine. 850 hours on the clock. Early on there was an issue with the turbo and it was replaced under warranty and has been OK since. As I have said before fitting a new engine you will pay as much for the fitting as you do for the motor itself. I avoided that by sitting right on top of the process and doing most of the physical unbuttoning of the old engine and helping where I could with the install. It had identical spacing of the engine mount holes so we just had to make spacers to give the exact height. No alignment problems at all, it just slipped into place. . Had to have a bracket made to take the 24 volt house bank alternator. There was no neat spot for it like the TMD 22 so the bracket is on the front of the motor. You will be amazed at the quantum of the wiring looms that come with it, but I guess that applies to any engine. Given my time over I would do the rebuild, putting a new engine in is a complex business but I have no complaint about the D2 -75. One interesting thing. The TMD was very sensitive to fouling on the autoprop, losing revs, this motor seems impervious, the prop can be covered in barnacles and it still does its 3000 rpm. I can only assume it has a powerful governor that calls on spare power.

As to your revs with the TMD 22. 2800 IS THE CORRECT RPM UNDER LOAD. i'LL SAY IT AGAIN. 2800 IS THE CORRECT RPM UNDER LOAD. Do not replace your engine if that is your "problem" Yes it will cheerfully spin up to 4000 rpm in neutral but 2800 is what you get under load.

Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 14 November 2018 at 17:07 "crwggb@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Danny,

You are now a further year in with your Volvo D2-75. How is it going?

I would love to do a rebuild of the TMD22 but it's not vaguely economical here in Hong Kong.

After everything Ive read on the Amel forum I was more of less convinced that the D2-75 was the engine for me too. As such have been googling this engine for reliability and the reading is not good concerning the mechanical data interface unit, some of which it appears Volvo have just recalled. They are now onto their 6th version of the MDI. Have you had any trouble with this item. Although this engine claims to be "electronics free" it's actually not.

Yanmar are quite hard to deal with when it comes to the isolated negative earth with huge lead times, which has got me running back to Beta ....which is where I actually started.

The Beta man looked at the SM and the power curves for the TMD22A. None of us have ever got that engine above 2800 rpm which is actually at best 60HP! 78 HP doesn't occur until 4500rpm. We have all been sailing round the world quite happily with that out put for many years. He suggested to me the BETA 60 was the the ideal replacement as it almost exactly replicates that part of the TMD22A power curve that we've only ever been able to use but at a higher torque. These days every one seems determined to put bigger and bigger engines in their boats, but I'm not convinced!

If you've time I'd love to hear how your D2-75 is going?

Graham
SM140 Sula
Hong Kong


 


 


 

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