Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Volvo D2-75 for a SuperMaramu

 

Graham,

Beta offers the option of "isolated negative." Be sure that they spec this option for your repower.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970



On Sat, Nov 17, 2018 at 2:40 AM crwggb@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Bill,

Thanks for your thoughts. Oddly enough your email beautifully summarises all my niggling doubts and questions that I will be presenting to the Beta man when we meet on Monday. After all 2 years ago it was him who suggested looking closely at the 60. I got an email from him this morning with all sorts of suggestions for fitting a 75!! So I am now pouring over those curves and gear box options.

I was concerned about the quantum leap in torque on the 75 and it's affect on the C drive, and fitting will be more of a fiddle, but I got also an email from the "go to" Amel man in the South of France who said only boats built in 89/91 need worry about that.

As you have pointed out in a previous post the weight increase on the 75 is not insignificant. I guess it all comes down to how one views this; in the aviation industry 2 passengers and their bags is always viewed as 200kg. So I guess it's like sailing around with 2 extra crew!.... or

I too will be interested in where this all ends up....I'll keep you posted.

Graham
Sula
SM140


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Volvo D2-75 for a SuperMaramu

Graham Boyd
 

Hi Bill,

Thanks for your thoughts. Oddly enough your email beautifully summarises all my niggling doubts and questions that I will be presenting to the Beta man when we meet on Monday. After all 2 years ago it was him who suggested looking closely at the 60. I got an email from him this morning with all sorts of suggestions for fitting a 75!! So I am now pouring over those curves and gear box options.

I was concerned about the quantum leap in torque on the 75 and it's affect on the C drive, and fitting will be more of a fiddle, but I got also an email from the "go to" Amel man in the South of France who said only boats built in 89/91 need worry about that.

As you have pointed out in a previous post the weight increase on the 75 is not insignificant. I guess it all comes down to how one views this; in the aviation industry 2 passengers and their bags is always viewed as 200kg. So I guess it's like sailing around with 2 extra crew!.... or

I too will be interested in where this all ends up....I'll keep you posted.

Graham
Sula
SM140


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Anchor Roller Removal...

greatketch@...
 

Having just disassembled all of the various stainless bits from the bow of Harmonie for resealing, polishing, and inspection I can confirm that the axles for the anchor rollers are welded to the side plates. They pass through holes in the plates, and are then welded around the edges.  

A bolt would have been so very much easier...  Except for that detail, it is a nice, simple, robust design.  Other than needing rebedding, polishing, and a few pieces of hardware that had corrosion issues, things looked great.

I know that there was at least one major redesign of the SM bow roller system after our boat was built, so yours might be different...

Hopefully in a week or two we'll have pictures of the "new and improved", or at the very least, newly shiny, bow. Water intrusion into the port side locker should be greatly reduced.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
On the hard for another four days.


Re: Power draw at anchor

Jim Anderson
 

Mark, Thanks you for the correction. My math was for 12V rather than 24. So hopefully the following is correct:


If your SM is equipped with 8  12V, 110Ah batteries and you are drawing 0.1 Amps continuously at 24V then theoretically it would take 73 days, 8 hours to run your batteries down to 60% charged.

 

If you were drawing 0.2A at 24V then it would be half of that, 36 days, 16 hours hours.

 

For the 12 battery  "comfort pak" model it would be 110 days and 55 days, respectively.

 

8 X 110 = 880 Total Ah at 12V

880/2 = 440Ah at 24V

440 X 40% =  176 Usable Ah

176/0.1 = 1760 hours available at 0.1A draw

1760/24 = 73.33 Days

 

Hope that helps, or is at least mildly interesting trivia,

 

Jim

SM384 Sirena Azul


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Volvo D2-75 for a SuperMaramu

greatketch@...
 

Graham,

Like you I think a lot of sailboats are significantly overpowered because that is what people think they want.  

Your thoughts on the Beta 60 are interesting, and I'll follow carefully what you end up doing and how it works for you. None-electric and non-turbo is nice.  The weight is also a good match.  Just a couple things to be sure of... 

The Volvo specifications I have are rated at the output shaft of the transmission, be sure that the Beta HP ratings are the same.  You can easily lose 5% in the transmission. and another 3-4% in the C-drive.

The Beta 60 lists its HO at 2700 as 56HP, the Volvo graph I have shows theTMD22 as about 62 at 2800.  That's enough difference that it is starting to matter.

For what is is worth (and it's not all that much) using standard sizing calculations, and assuming a fully loaded displacement of 38,000 lbs and a LWL of 41.25ft, the HP needed AT THE PROPELLER for a SM looks like this:

6.4 kts 31.3HP
7.0 kts 40.6HP
7.4 kts 47.6HP
7.7 kts 54.1HP
8.0 kts 61.2HP
8.5 kts 72.0HP

I'd add 4% to account for loss in the C-drive if the engine is rated for  transmission output.  If the engine was rated for output from its shaft, I'd add 10%.

My thinking is I'd start to worry that the Beta60 might be cutting it a bit close on the lower end... depending on exactly what you want your engine to do.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA


---In amelyachtowners@..., <crwggb@...> wrote :

The answer to all this is in the torque curves. As you say Danny 2800 is the max on the Amel TMD22A installation. This effectively limits its max OP to approx 60HP. I have been very happy with this performance for the past 14 years as are many other owners. Looking at the torque curve for the TMD you will see max torque is at around 2500 RPM, hence  its susceptibility to a fowled prop/bottom. Compare that to the hugely bigger torque at similar RPM on the D2-75 and that is why it will push through to its advertised rpm despite the fowling.

Amel should really have rebadged the TMD22A with a 60HP label.... but of course thats not what sells boats! Given that I've been very happy with a "60HP" engine for all these years its the main reason I'm looking at the BETA 60. It has no turbo and no electronic control boxes and will fit very comfortably in the space. At cruising RPM (2000 to 2100) that will give 7kts it produces 170nm torque compared to the TMD22A...same RPM but153nm torque. The beta tops out at 2700 rpm. So essentially it does exactly what the tmd22a has been doing all these years...but without the turbo.

The BETA man is coming to the boat on Monday I'll keep you posted on how it all goes.

Graham


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rocna anchor

Arthur Sundqvist
 

Thank you for sharing your resersh and knowledge.
Kind regards
Arthur
SM435. Vista

Skickat från min iPhone

16 nov. 2018 kl. 14:56 skrev greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

10mm G40 (or 3/8" HT)  


If you want a slightly stronger chain look for Maggi Aqua4 brand 10mm chain that will work as well. There might be other brands that boast higher than "standard" strengths as well.

When sizing chain you can size it "forward" or "backward."  If you size it "forward" you calculate the size chain you need to hold your boat in the worst conditions you ever expect to anchor in.  Amel selected 10mm chain, and this seems a good choice to me.  With a good stretchy snubber, and care on selection of connecting bits 10mm chain should be fine for this boat.

Sizing an anchor "backward" is using the maximum holding power of the anchor in good conditions then using that number to figure chain size.  This is how Rocna comes up with their recommendation of 11mm for a 40kg anchor.

Most cruising boat s will oversize their anchors at least a little to help when anchored in bottoms that are less than ideal.  There really is no significant benefit to increase the chain strength as well.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Rocna anchor

Barry Connor
 

Highly recommend the 40kg Rocna. After bending the shaft on the original 30kg Bugel (see YouTube How to straighten a bent boat anchor) the Bugel bent whilst being dragged in 40 knot winds. The new 40kg Rocha sets and has stayed put in 40 knot winds. The Rocha fits perfectly on the starboard double roller with the straightened Bugel next to it. We slept peaceful nights this last 6 months anchoring all through the Adriatic. Would say the 40kg Rocha is perfect for the AMEL.

Barry and Penny
“Lady Penelope II”
Amel 54  #17
Marina di Ragusa.  Sicily


On Nov 16, 2018, at 11:58, trifin@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Arthur,
We have a 54 not SM. We ditched the original 30kg Bugel and replaced with 40kg Rocna. No change needed to bowroller on 54. Not so pretty, but now we have an anchor that works reliably for us. 10mm chain.
Dean
SY Stella A54 #154


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rocna anchor

greatketch@...
 

10mm G40 (or 3/8" HT)  

If you want a slightly stronger chain look for Maggi Aqua4 brand 10mm chain that will work as well. There might be other brands that boast higher than "standard" strengths as well.

When sizing chain you can size it "forward" or "backward."  If you size it "forward" you calculate the size chain you need to hold your boat in the worst conditions you ever expect to anchor in.  Amel selected 10mm chain, and this seems a good choice to me.  With a good stretchy snubber, and care on selection of connecting bits 10mm chain should be fine for this boat.

Sizing an anchor "backward" is using the maximum holding power of the anchor in good conditions then using that number to figure chain size.  This is how Rocna comes up with their recommendation of 11mm for a 40kg anchor.

Most cruising boats will oversize their anchors at least a little to help when anchored in bottoms that are less than ideal.  There really is no significant benefit to increase the chain strength as well.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rocna anchor

robin hutter
 

on my old Super Maramu built in 1991, hull number 56 the 40 kg Rocna did not fit therefore I fit a 33 kg which worked perfectly.

fair winds
Robin
Amel 54 #54 (2007)
Carré d’As


Gesendet von Yahoo Mail für iPad

Am Donnerstag, November 15, 2018, 23:07 schrieb Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] :

 

I am very happy with my 40kg Rocna.  Snugs up nicely on the bow roller, sets and holds better than anything else I’ve used.


Kent
SM243
Kristy
Still stuck in snowy rainy cold Maryland...wondering if we’ll ever get out of here.

Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy
USA cell: 828-234-6819

On Nov 15, 2018, at 3:04 PM, arthur@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

You who use The Rocna anchor and are sailing an SM wich size are working best?


Kind regards

Arthur Sundqvist

SM 435, Vista



Re: Rocna anchor

Dean Gillies
 

Hi Arthur,
We have a 54 not SM. We ditched the original 30kg Bugel and replaced with 40kg Rocna. No change needed to bowroller on 54. Not so pretty, but now we have an anchor that works reliably for us. 10mm chain.
Dean
SY Stella A54 #154


Re: Power draw at anchor

Gary Wells
 

I did put a spst switch at the fuel gauge to eliminate that draw. As well, I have made the "permanent" converters (24v/12v) switchable.
I had one other mystery draw and that was high-water alarm/bilge pump switch which had an electronic sensor and drew a small current all the time.

At the start of my quest I had about 0.38a draw but it's a zero now when everything is shut down.

If you have any fixtures that have USB charging ports, they will draw a little with their converters as well. 

Finally (I had to chase a 12v leak as well) if there is any build up of calcium or other corrosion on connectors to pumps or other hardware that might be a way for tiny amperage leaks to find a way to ground. 

Gary W.
s/v Adagio, SM 209
Gran Canaria


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Volvo D2-75 for a SuperMaramu

michael winand
 

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. If you don't mind sharing with us what a beta60 is going to cost for the engine above earth. and what panel you chose.
 In your area of the world .
I  think many of us who are going through the process would be grateful. 

On Fri, 16 Nov 2018 at 18:37, crwggb@... [amelyachtowners]
wrote:
 

The answer to all this is in the torque curves. As you say Danny 2800 is the max on the Amel TMD22A installation. This effectively limits its max OP to approx 60HP. I have been very happy with this performance for the past 14 years as are many other owners. Looking at the torque curve for the TMD you will see max torque is at around 2500 RPM, hence  its susceptibility to a fowled prop/bottom. Compare that to the hugely bigger torque at similar RPM on the D2-75 and that is why it will push through to its advertised rpm despite the fowling.


Amel should really have rebadged the TMD22A with a 60HP label.... but of course thats not what sells boats! Given that I've been very happy with a "60HP" engine for all these years its the main reason I'm looking at the BETA 60. It has no turbo and no electronic control boxes and will fit very comfortably in the space. At cruising RPM (2000 to 2100) that will give 7kts it produces 170nm torque compared to the TMD22A...same RPM but153nm torque. The beta tops out at 2700 rpm. So essentially it does exactly what the tmd22a has been doing all these years...but without the turbo.

The BETA man is coming to the boat on Monday I'll keep you posted on how it all goes.

Graham


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rocna anchor

Arthur Sundqvist
 

10. Or. 12mm. Chain?

Arthur
SM 435. Vista


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Volvo D2-75 for a SuperMaramu

Graham Boyd
 

The answer to all this is in the torque curves. As you say Danny 2800 is the max on the Amel TMD22A installation. This effectively limits its max OP to approx 60HP. I have been very happy with this performance for the past 14 years as are many other owners. Looking at the torque curve for the TMD you will see max torque is at around 2500 RPM, hence  its susceptibility to a fowled prop/bottom. Compare that to the hugely bigger torque at similar RPM on the D2-75 and that is why it will push through to its advertised rpm despite the fowling.

Amel should really have rebadged the TMD22A with a 60HP label.... but of course thats not what sells boats! Given that I've been very happy with a "60HP" engine for all these years its the main reason I'm looking at the BETA 60. It has no turbo and no electronic control boxes and will fit very comfortably in the space. At cruising RPM (2000 to 2100) that will give 7kts it produces 170nm torque compared to the TMD22A...same RPM but153nm torque. The beta tops out at 2700 rpm. So essentially it does exactly what the tmd22a has been doing all these years...but without the turbo.

The BETA man is coming to the boat on Monday I'll keep you posted on how it all goes.

Graham


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rocna anchor

Arthur Sundqvist
 

Thank you. Here in. Stockholm winter is coming.
Do you use 12 or 10 mm chain ?

Kind Regards
Arthur
SM 435. Vista


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rocna anchor

Arthur Sundqvist
 

Thank you. Bill for always thinking two steps ahead.
12 or 10 mm chain???
Best
Arthur
SM 435, Vista


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rocna anchor

Arthur Sundqvist
 

Thank you. Sounds. Good. Do you har 10 or 12 mm chain?
Arthur
SM 435 Vista


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rocna anchor

James Studdart
 

We also use a 40kg rocna. Flawless, we’ve never dragged once it’s set.

Cheers,
James.
SeaBean, SM344

On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 17:39 Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

I made a mock-up out of heavy cardboard using full sized drawings from Rocna before ordering.

Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy
USA cell: 828-234-6819


On Nov 15, 2018, at 5:17 PM, Bill Rouse brouse@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Please remember that not all bow rollers are the same on all SMs.



On Thu, Nov 15, 2018 at 4:07 PM Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

I am very happy with my 40kg Rocna.  Snugs up nicely on the bow roller, sets and holds better than anything else I’ve used.


Kent
SM243
Kristy
Still stuck in snowy rainy cold Maryland...wondering if we’ll ever get out of here.

Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy
USA cell: 828-234-6819

On Nov 15, 2018, at 3:04 PM, arthur@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

You who use The Rocna anchor and are sailing an SM wich size are working best?


Kind regards

Arthur Sundqvist

SM 435, Vista



New file uploaded to amelyachtowners

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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rocna anchor

karkauai
 

I made a mock-up out of heavy cardboard using full sized drawings from Rocna before ordering.

Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy
USA cell: 828-234-6819

On Nov 15, 2018, at 5:17 PM, Bill Rouse brouse@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Please remember that not all bow rollers are the same on all SMs.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970



On Thu, Nov 15, 2018 at 4:07 PM Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

I am very happy with my 40kg Rocna.  Snugs up nicely on the bow roller, sets and holds better than anything else I’ve used.


Kent
SM243
Kristy
Still stuck in snowy rainy cold Maryland...wondering if we’ll ever get out of here.

Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy
USA cell: 828-234-6819

On Nov 15, 2018, at 3:04 PM, arthur@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

You who use The Rocna anchor and are sailing an SM wich size are working best?


Kind regards

Arthur Sundqvist

SM 435, Vista