Date   

Re: Onan Raw Water Cooling System Maintenance

greatketch@...
 

Bill S.,

Black oil in a Diesel engine is totally normal, and nothing to worry about. Even the best tuned Diesel engine will produce a small amount of soot when running, and the tiniest bit of blow by the piston rings, and the oil is instantly black. This is very different from a gasoline engine where soot indicates a cumbustion problem.

Do not let anybody sell you an engine cleaning just because your oil is black. The best thing to do if you are concerned about the condition of your oil is to have it lab tested. It is fast, and not at all expensive. That will tell you if it has normal levels of soot and other contaminants or if something is wrong. The best thing of all is to do such testing routinely so you can see changes with time.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, Fl, USA


Re: Onan Raw Water Cooling System Maintenance

John Clark
 

Hi Bill S,
     I cut my teeth on a 66 Chevy with 283.  She survived my "cleaning" with "Engine Flush."  I don't know about how a diesel will respond.  I guess in theory it should be ok.

My SM #37 was repowered in 2002 with the TMD-22 and the 6.5KW Onan, today there is about 4400 hrs on each.  I also observed the clear oil after change in the TMD and the instant dirty oil after the change in the genset.  You are right on that the gravity drain on the genset does not get all the old oil out of the oil pan, and it drains very slow.  Takes maybe about 30 minutes to finish the gravity drain.  I use a hand vacuum fitted down through the oil dipstick tube to get the remainder out.  The first time I did this the oil was still a bit dirty, so I poured a liter or two into the motor....enough to just reach the dipstick then ran the motor for a few seconds and drained the oil again.  It has been clear after change ever since.   

                       Regards,  John

John Clark
SV Annie
Le Marin, Martinique



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Onan Raw Water Cooling System Maintenance

eric freedman
 

Bill,

I have only done this on my engines twice.

I do not believe doing it once would harm anything.

The oil cleaner runs for only 30 minutes.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2018 2:08 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Onan Raw Water Cooling System Maintenance

 

 

Eric,

Thanks for the good info. You actually answered another question I was going to submit regarding black oil in my Volvo Penta TMD22A  (5000 hours) and my Onan KMDB 6500 Watt genset (3000 hours).   Until recently, the oil in the Volvo would remain clean until changed again, but after a recent change (I change oil and filter every 150 hours) it immediately turned black.  I attributed this to perhaps sludge breaking loose in the oil pan.  On the other hand, the oil in the genset was always black even after an oil and filter change (I change oil and filter every 100 hours).  I attributed this to incomplete drainage of the oil which is removed by gravity drain.  As in the Volvo I assumed that there might be sludge in the oil pan.  

 

Your solution to add an oil cleaner and run for 6-8 hours is one I had considered, but recalled when I did that on my 1951 ford flathead in 1960, it removed the sludge but also caused the piston rod bearings to loosen up and resulted in a failed engine.  Since I only paid $10 for the car and used it for two years, I wasn't concerned and just bought a new $10 car (51 Chevy).  Unfortunately, a $250,000 boat is a different story than a $10 car.  

 

Considering both the Volvo and the Onan, do you know if adding the engine oil cleaner additive you suggest would clean out the sludge but also loosen up the bearings given I've never done it before?  Since you apparently do this on a regular basis, that hasn't been the case for you.  My concern would be that since I haven't done this on a regular basis, I might have a different result.  I'm currently in Europe, but will consult with a specialist when I return to Fort Lauderdale where my boat is located for Hurricane season.  

 

Regards,

Bill Shaproski

S/V Pacific Cool (Amel Super Maramu Number 141)

 

 


Re: Head-sail Swivel Ball Bearing Replacement

Ian Park
 

Ian
I replaced mine 4 years ago. Misshapen and broken bearings galore!
I just attached a masthead halliard to the bow roller and cranked it fairly tight. I put tape on the forestay thread to mark exactly how far it was tightened, then undid it. Removed the motor and furler gearbox from the foil and dropped the drum off.
There is a plastic plug inside the drum. When you prize it off all the balls just drop out. Once the top and bottom set are out the two parts just separate. Beautifully simple.
You may need a new plug. The inside is curved to match the curve of the inner ball race. This plug needs a ridge on the outside that fits the foil groove to stop it rotating and blocking the movement of the bearings. The ridge had worn away on mine so I had a new one machined.
Not a difficult job.

Good luck

Ian. Ocean Hobo SN96


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Onan Raw Water Cooling System Maintenance

pacificcool@...
 

Hi Bill,
My Onan is a 6500 watt version with 3,000 hours and I have only changed the cooling fluid for the fresh water side once (my bad).  Having said that, the Onan runs like a top and starts instantly.  I think I already said it in another message, the tech recommending it is not a specialist.  Also, Last summer I replaced the heat exchanger which was leaking water at the end caps.  Eric advised using an auto radiator cleaner which is essentially what the tech is suggesting.  I'll probably do that or something similar.  

I'll be flying back to Florida from Holland after New Years and look at the situation up close.  Thanks for your help.  

Bill Shaproski
S/V Pacific Cool (SM 141)


Re: Onan Raw Water Cooling System Maintenance

pacificcool@...
 

Eric,
Thanks for the good info. You actually answered another question I was going to submit regarding black oil in my Volvo Penta TMD22A  (5000 hours) and my Onan KMDB 6500 Watt genset (3000 hours).   Until recently, the oil in the Volvo would remain clean until changed again, but after a recent change (I change oil and filter every 150 hours) it immediately turned black.  I attributed this to perhaps sludge breaking loose in the oil pan.  On the other hand, the oil in the genset was always black even after an oil and filter change (I change oil and filter every 100 hours).  I attributed this to incomplete drainage of the oil which is removed by gravity drain.  As in the Volvo I assumed that there might be sludge in the oil pan.  

Your solution to add an oil cleaner and run for 6-8 hours is one I had considered, but recalled when I did that on my 1951 ford flathead in 1960, it removed the sludge but also caused the piston rod bearings to loosen up and resulted in a failed engine.  Since I only paid $10 for the car and used it for two years, I wasn't concerned and just bought a new $10 car (51 Chevy).  Unfortunately, a $250,000 boat is a different story than a $10 car.  

Considering both the Volvo and the Onan, do you know if adding the engine oil cleaner additive you suggest would clean out the sludge but also loosen up the bearings given I've never done it before?  Since you apparently do this on a regular basis, that hasn't been the case for you.  My concern would be that since I haven't done this on a regular basis, I might have a different result.  I'm currently in Europe, but will consult with a specialist when I return to Fort Lauderdale where my boat is located for Hurricane season.  

Regards,
Bill Shaproski
S/V Pacific Cool (Amel Super Maramu Number 141)



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Onan Raw Water Cooling System Maintenance

eric freedman
 

Hi,

You can buy an automotive radiator cleaner .

The one I used needs to be added to fresh water, the genset run for 6-8 hours. Drain the system , flush with fresh water and then fill with antifreeze. The flush chemical costs about $8.00 in the USA.

 

You can also have your old heat exchanger acid cleaned in a radiator shop, painted , and add new end caps.

You will then have a brand new heat exchanger for a spare.

 

There is also an oil cleaner that runs in your engine for 30 minutes. It cleans out all the gunk. Add fresh oil and your engine is also cleaned. I do this on both my genset and my main engine.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2018 4:22 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Onan Raw Water Cooling System Maintenance

 

 

Thanks for the quick responses.  I realize I made a mistake in saying it was the raw water  system.  It was actually the fresh water cooling system.  Sorry about that.  IN addition, I should say that I replaced the heat exchanger in the Caribbean 6 months ago due to leakage at the end covers.  The Genset has 3000 hours.  The technician who recommended the procedure is not a Genset specialist.  He's more a general boat technician.  I'll have to ask him what the additive is that he is recommending.  


Re: Onan Raw Water Cooling System Maintenance

pacificcool@...
 

Thanks for the quick responses.  I realize I made a mistake in saying it was the raw water  system.  It was actually the fresh water cooling system.  Sorry about that.  IN addition, I should say that I replaced the heat exchanger in the Caribbean 6 months ago due to leakage at the end covers.  The Genset has 3000 hours.  The technician who recommended the procedure is not a Genset specialist.  He's more a general boat technician.  I'll have to ask him what the additive is that he is recommending.  


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Head-sail Swivel Ball Bearing Replacement

 

Ian,

I just sent you her file.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970



On Sun, Nov 25, 2018 at 12:32 PM Ian Shepherd sv_freespirit@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Dany was spot on when he suggested that the reason my ballooner would not lock into the swivel was because the locking tongue in the inner part of the swivel had worn away allowing the mouse trap to rotate to any old position. I believe the reason this happened was because the plastic ball bearings that the inner swivel rotates on had worn first, causing the locking tongue to move out of the fore-stay groove and hence break or wear off the tip.

I have obtained a new tongue (€15 + tax) and new ball bearings (24 cents each) from Amel. However, I need guidance on how to replace the balls. Annesofie said there was a file in the files section on how to do this in the files section, but I cannot find it. Can anyone who has it please forward it to crusader53 (AT) gmail.com. Thank you.

Can I replace the balls by dropping the furler and motor off the foil to  deck level without disconnecting the fore-stay?

Is the way into the ball race by removing the plastic insert? If so, how is the insert safely removed without breaking it?

Any tips would be most welcome.

Ian Shepherd SM2K Crusader (2003) Cyprus


Head-sail Swivel Ball Bearing Replacement

Ian Shepherd
 

Dany was spot on when he suggested that the reason my ballooner would not lock into the swivel was because the locking tongue in the inner part of the swivel had worn away allowing the mouse trap to rotate to any old position. I believe the reason this happened was because the plastic ball bearings that the inner swivel rotates on had worn first, causing the locking tongue to move out of the fore-stay groove and hence break or wear off the tip.

I have obtained a new tongue (€15 + tax) and new ball bearings (24 cents each) from Amel. However, I need guidance on how to replace the balls. Annesofie said there was a file in the files section on how to do this in the files section, but I cannot find it. Can anyone who has it please forward it to crusader53 (AT) gmail.com. Thank you.

Can I replace the balls by dropping the furler and motor off the foil to  deck level without disconnecting the fore-stay?

Is the way into the ball race by removing the plastic insert? If so, how is the insert safely removed without breaking it?

Any tips would be most welcome.

Ian Shepherd SM2K Crusader (2003) Cyprus


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Onan Raw Water Cooling System Maintenance

 

Actually, I am not sure and had a lot more questions. My partial answer was for the raw water side. It is unusual to have to flush the coolant side, but certainly possible.

People sometimes forget about the exhaust manifold when disassembling and cleaning, and usually concentrate on the heat exchanger and elbow. I have seen some ugly exhaust manifolds, blocked by carbon. 

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970



On Sun, Nov 25, 2018 at 9:37 AM greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Bill

Are you sure he is talking about the raw water side? That sounds more like an engine block freshwater side cleaning process. The Onan raw water system is really simple and can not be setup to recirculate while running.

A pump, hoses, heat exchanger, and exhaust elbow. It is also not made of things that "rust". The pump is bronze, and the heat exchanger is copper-nickel. They can corrode, if the zinc is not maintained, but they typically do not clog from this, they just get thinner. The can clog from biological fouling if run a lot or from salts precipitating from seawater if not run often.

The exhaust elbow can not be cleaned effectively in-situ, it really needs to be removed if it is clogged or fouled.

The only process I know of to clean in place requires removal of the pump impeller, then pumping a phosphoric acid based cleaner (like BarnacleBuster) through the pump and heat exchanger. This bypasses the exhaust elbow, and is effective, but does not involve running the engine at all.

The Onan system is simple enough, if my heat exchanger was in need of serious cleaning, I’d take it off and clean it by hand.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, Fl, USA


Re: Onan Raw Water Cooling System Maintenance

greatketch@...
 

Bill

Are you sure he is talking about the raw water side? That sounds more like an engine block freshwater side cleaning process. The Onan raw water system is really simple and can not be setup to recirculate while running.

A pump, hoses, heat exchanger, and exhaust elbow. It is also not made of things that "rust". The pump is bronze, and the heat exchanger is copper-nickel. They can corrode, if the zinc is not maintained, but they typically do not clog from this, they just get thinner. The can clog from biological fouling if run a lot or from salts precipitating from seawater if not run often.

The exhaust elbow can not be cleaned effectively in-situ, it really needs to be removed if it is clogged or fouled.

The only process I know of to clean in place requires removal of the pump impeller, then pumping a phosphoric acid based cleaner (like BarnacleBuster) through the pump and heat exchanger. This bypasses the exhaust elbow, and is effective, but does not involve running the engine at all.

The Onan system is simple enough, if my heat exchanger was in need of serious cleaning, I’d take it off and clean it by hand.


Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, Fl, USA


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Onan Raw Water Cooling System Maintenance

 

Bill,

What hull number/year? Has the Onan cooling system ever been overhauled? How many hours on the Onan? Who is the technician or company and what product or chemicals are recommended?

As an alternative, you could remove hoses, raw water pump, manifold, and exhaust elbow, then take the metal parts to a shop that cleans radiators. Have these components chemically cleaned. Repaint and reinstall the components using new gaskets. Install new end caps and zinc on the heat exchanger. Rebuild the raw water pump and install a new impeller.

My guess is that this method is at least twice as good as the run-the-stuff through the sea water cooling system and likely close to the same cost. And, if you rebuild this way, you will basically have a new cooling system. 

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970


On Sun, Nov 25, 2018, 04:04 pacificcool@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@... wrote:
 

I have Amel 141 from 1995.   Pacific Cool is currently in Fort Lauderdale for the hurricane season.  The technician looking after my boat for me recommended in an email I flush the Onan raw water cooling system with a special process that takes 10 hours and involves many fills and flushes including running the genset for four hours with an additive included.  Unfortunately, I cannot contact him at the moment to get more info.  It's apparently to remove rust build-up.   Does anyone know what this is all about. 

Regards
Bill Shaproski
S/V Pacific Cool


Onan Raw Water Cooling System Maintenance

pacificcool@...
 

I have Amel 141 from 1995.   Pacific Cool is currently in Fort Lauderdale for the hurricane season.  The technician looking after my boat for me recommended in an email I flush the Onan raw water cooling system with a special process that takes 10 hours and involves many fills and flushes including running the genset for four hours with an additive included.  Unfortunately, I cannot contact him at the moment to get more info.  It's apparently to remove rust build-up.   Does anyone know what this is all about. 
Regards
Bill Shaproski
S/V Pacific Cool


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Adding weight to the bow

Elaine Leishman
 

Hi Craig,
Our bimini is still original and needs an upgrade after 19 years.  We would also like to see your design if possible.
Regards, 
Elaine and Michael 
SM 251 Nebo


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.


-------- Original message --------
From: "James Cromie jamescromie@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Date:25/11/2018 05:03 (GMT+10:00)
To: amelyachtowners@...
Cc:
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Adding weight to the bow

 

Hi Craig -. 
I certainly would like to see the frame that you designed!

Cheers
James
SM 347
Soteria
Pensacola cay

On Nov 24, 2018 9:18 AM, "sangaris@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Eric,

I designed a stainless tube frame that fastens to the mizzen stays like our balooner "wishbones" do to the main stays, so no typical bimini uprights to deal with. This is covered with sunbrella, zipped in front but lashed "T" top style on the sides and back so it's taut as the cross members follow the same curve as the Amel bimini at the hard dodger. Can add solar panels either with through-canvas mounts (preferred) or by adding some supplemental metal framework above the canvas.

Let me know if you'd like pics, although it's pretty straightforward.
Cheers,
Craig




---In amelyachtowners@..., <ericmeury@...> wrote :

hey craig I was going to call you on this.

Do you have a hard bimini now?


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Adding weight to the bow

James Cromie
 

Hi Craig -. 
I certainly would like to see the frame that you designed!

Cheers
James
SM 347
Soteria
Pensacola cay

On Nov 24, 2018 9:18 AM, "sangaris@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Eric,

I designed a stainless tube frame that fastens to the mizzen stays like our balooner "wishbones" do to the main stays, so no typical bimini uprights to deal with. This is covered with sunbrella, zipped in front but lashed "T" top style on the sides and back so it's taut as the cross members follow the same curve as the Amel bimini at the hard dodger. Can add solar panels either with through-canvas mounts (preferred) or by adding some supplemental metal framework above the canvas.

Let me know if you'd like pics, although it's pretty straightforward.
Cheers,
Craig




---In amelyachtowners@..., <ericmeury@...> wrote :

hey craig I was going to call you on this.

Do you have a hard bimini now?


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Ballooner Halyard

Stephen Davis
 

Thanks Bill....a good photo of the how Amel does it would be great. 

Steve

On Nov 24, 2018, at 05:17, Bill Rouse brouse@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

The photos that Duane suggests are NOT original. Hopefully someone will take a photo for you Steve.

I will be in Martinique next week with a client and will measure and photo the business end of that line.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970



On Thu, Nov 22, 2018 at 5:41 PM sailor63109@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Steve,


There are two in the Photo section.  Search for "Ballooner" or use this link:


Duane
Wanderer, SM#477


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Ballooner Halyard

 

The photos that Duane suggests are NOT original. Hopefully someone will take a photo for you Steve.

I will be in Martinique next week with a client and will measure and photo the business end of that line.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970



On Thu, Nov 22, 2018 at 5:41 PM sailor63109@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Steve,


There are two in the Photo section.  Search for "Ballooner" or use this link:


Duane
Wanderer, SM#477


Re: Adding weight to the bow

Craig Briggs
 

Hi Eric,
I designed a stainless tube frame that fastens to the mizzen stays like our balooner "wishbones" do to the main stays, so no typical bimini uprights to deal with. This is covered with sunbrella, zipped in front but lashed "T" top style on the sides and back so it's taut as the cross members follow the same curve as the Amel bimini at the hard dodger. Can add solar panels either with through-canvas mounts (preferred) or by adding some supplemental metal framework above the canvas.

Let me know if you'd like pics, although it's pretty straightforward.
Cheers,
Craig




---In amelyachtowners@..., <ericmeury@...> wrote :

hey craig I was going to call you on this.

Do you have a hard bimini now?


Re: Ballooner Halyard

Craig Briggs
 

Steve,
Ours, which I believe was original, had a metal collar swaged on the line to form the loop. I've since replaced it and went with a sewn and siezed loop, as Amel did on other control lines.
Cheers, Craig SN58