Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Ballooner Halyard for Maramu, SN, SM and a few 54s

greatketch@...
 

Bill R,

Point 1:  New England Ropes Sta-SetX polyester line has a breaking strength of 7600 lbs in the 7/16 inch size (11mm, but as close as they get to 10).  Even using the most conservative industry value for safety factor for life-safety usage of 15X, it is more than strong enough to lift any person up the mast (that I would want to lift!). If you think that 10mm Dacron line is not suitable for going up a mast, you need to know that your standards are VERY different than the rest of the sailing world.

You suggest high tech line is "more reliable."  It is not. Many of the high tech lines have a much shorter life span in actual use because they do not like going around small sheaves and cleats. They can fail on the inside and you will NEVER know because the damage is invisible inside the sun cover which has no real strength of its own. 

I have seen this happen on a J-105 where a Spectra cored halyard failed while hoisting the sail.  There was no trace of damage looking at the cover, but the actual strength carrying core had been crushed by the cleat where the line was normally stopped off.  After that incident, I refused to allow my staff to go aloft on cored halyards.  I would MUCH prefer going aloft on a double braid polyester line where my visual inspection of the line tells me everything I need to know about its condition.

Point 2: I think you are confusing the line specs published by Amel. There are, of course, many lines on the boat that they specified as "Kevlar," and a few as Vectran. These are all lines that are stretch critical from an engineering standpoint.  What you might not realize is that ALL Kevlar lines MUST have a polyester cover because Kevlar is not stable to UV light. These lines can not be "all Kevlar."

Amel's specifications are very clear:  For lines where stretch is critical, like the halyards, the main outhaul, the traveler control lines, they are all called out as high tech line. I know they do not SAY polyester covered, but you can not use Kevlar line uncovered.  It would have a very short live span in tropical sun, and it would be WAY too slippery to work in the line tenders, or even on a standard winch at high loadings.   I know how important these low-stretch specifications are, I just bought a lot of high tech line for our boat, and for these applications they are not only worth it, but are essential to proper operation.

When Amel specifies "polyester" line, that's what they mean--not "polyester covered".  You'll see this if you look at the lines where they do specify "polyester".  They are ALL for lines where stretch can either be accepted (like the ballooner halyard) or where stretch is an important requirement (like the main sheet.)

High tech line is not "better" than polyester.  It is different.  It has a different purpose. None of our lines are loaded ANYWHERE near the point they need Spectra, Dyneema, or Vectran for breaking strength.  The only reason to use these kinds of lines on a Super Maramu is to control stretch. Thats where they should be used. In places where a bit of give is important to protect the boat (like a main sheet in a crash gybe) polyester is BETTER.  In places where stretch is unimportant, then use what makes sense from a cost and performance standpoint. That is what Amel specified, and what I use. 

It sounds like you are suggesting that ALL the lines on a Super Maramu MUST be high tech lines. That will warm the hearts of people selling such lines, and leaving everybody else poorer, to no useful purpose.

We all want to help people make the right choices.  Just like on the different kinds of Dyneema or Vectran lines for the outhaul or main traveler, details _matter_ in this. Vectran, Dyneema, and Spectra are not the same thing.  They are covered in different materials for different purposes. You have to know the reason for making choices. More dollars spent does not always get you the better outcome if spent on specifications that are irrelevant or inappropriate for the application..

Just so people understand where I am coming from, I have rigged a 40 foot boat with Dyneema standing rigging.  It was a very successful operation. It would have been a laughable failure with Dacron line--of any kind.  It is not something I would recommend for every boat, by any means. I understand where and when high tech lines are useful. These lines are not magic.  They have pluses and minuses.  No line is suitable for all purposes.

That's a very long way of saying, the ballooner halyard should be 10mm Dacron line.  It is more than strong enough. The extra stretch is irrelevant--in this application.  It is safer for going aloft because it is visually inspectable for strength, and it is a LOT less expensive.  I like New England Ropes Sta-Set X because it is really easy to splice and has a nice "hand," but a bunch of others would do as well.

That's my reasoning.  You don't have to accept it, but you asked for it.  That's pretty much everything I know about the matter. 

You should, of course, make what ever recommendation you think best based on what you know.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA


---In amelyachtowners@..., <brouse@...> wrote :

Bill Kinney,
  1. Amel trained all SM owners to use this line to go up the mast and many use it today. Yes, it may not need high strength capacity, but it's construction and reliability is very important to the safety of the owners.
  2. The outer sheath of the Amel OEM Ballooner Halyard is polyester according to Amel documents. The Amel documents do not state what the core is made of. It does not appear to be polyester. Most all of the OEM Amel running rigging lines have high strength cores including Kevlar. I can think of 6 or 8 as I write this. I am very interested as to where you found the core specs for the Amel OEM Ballooner Halyard? I will use it to update my information. If Amel specified polyester, I would be surprised and I will probably would not recommend it.
  3. I appreciate your suggestion/criticism, but actually I asked for input, corrections and clarifications because I am trying to help those that have asked for the same. Do you have anything else to offer to help me finalize this?
Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Amel54 SSB installation

eric freedman
 

HI dean,

I meant to say GTO15 wire and not coax.

ON ONE OF MY PREVIOUS BOATS I HAD A PROBLEM WITH THAT WIRE.

THE SEAWATER RAN DOWN THE WIRE INTO A LOCKER AND THEN UPHILL INTO THE TUNER. The tuner was toast,

My tuner on Kimberlite has all connections on the outside so that cannot happen again.

 

I do have the stock Amel whip antenna. I have had very good connections to my friend in Canada from the Med.

I would not change it.

Fair Winds

Eric

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2018 7:23 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Amel54 SSB installation

 

 

Hi Eric,
Thanks for that point. When you say coax, may I assume you mean the antenna feed cable (which shouldn’t be coax, but may look like it from outside).
Do you have the 7m whip antenna?
Cheers
Dean


Re: Amel54 SSB installation

Dean Gillies
 

Hi Eric,
Thanks for that point. When you say coax, may I assume you mean the antenna feed cable (which shouldn’t be coax, but may look like it from outside).
Do you have the 7m whip antenna?
Cheers
Dean


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Where does the water go?

ya_fohi
 

Porter,

Thanks. However, ther are two things a) I'm not using the aircon and b) I don't have a ball valve where you described it, only in the forward saloon sole compartment where there are three of them. Your boat seems a much later one than mine so maybe they added the valve in later models. I do see a pipe coming from under the freezer joining the main drain so I will check the aircon drip tray.

Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Amel54 SSB installation

Dean Gillies
 

Hi Nick,
Great feedback! That is exactly the configuration I have in mind if I go down the backstay path.

Did you use spacers between the plastic tube holding the feed cable and the lower part of the backstay.
Also, do you have any leakage problems in the antenna feed cable?

Cheers
Dean


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Missing furler release knob

 

He has the SM 2000 (newer) style release knob.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970



On Sun, Dec 2, 2018 at 2:13 PM greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Paul,


Do you have the "new style" furling drum (the one that splits into two parts)? or the older "one piece" style drum?  The drive pins on the two are very different.  It is possible there are even more variations than the two I know of...

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA


---In amelyachtowners@..., <paul.cooper74@...> wrote :

Hello Amelians,


The furler release knob (my name for the thingey that you pull up on and rotate 1/4 turn to disengage the genoa furler motor) has mysteriously disappeared from my boat here in Le Marin (stolen??).


Anyway, Bill Rouse believes someone on the forum has fabricated some of these since they apparently are no longer available.  Does anyone out there have one to spare?


Thanks,


Paul

MARACUYA, SM238


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Ballooner Halyard for Maramu, SN, SM and a few 54s

 

Bill Kinney,
  1. Amel trained all SM owners to use this line to go up the mast and many use it today. Yes, it may not need high strength capacity, but it's construction and reliability is very important to the safety of the owners.
  2. The outer sheath of the Amel OEM Ballooner Halyard is polyester according to Amel documents. The Amel documents do not state what the core is made of. It does not appear to be polyester. Most all of the OEM Amel running rigging lines have high strength cores including Kevlar. I can think of 6 or 8 as I write this. I am very interested as to where you found the core specs for the Amel OEM Ballooner Halyard? I will use it to update my information. If Amel specified polyester, I would be surprised and I will probably would not recommend it.
  3. I appreciate your suggestion/criticism, but actually I asked for input, corrections and clarifications because I am trying to help those that have asked for the same. Do you have anything else to offer to help me finalize this?
Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970



On Sun, Dec 2, 2018 at 2:30 PM greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Bill R,


The directions you show are for splicing a high tech dyneema or spectra core line.Is there a rational for using such an expensive line on the ballooner halyard which sees no load at all in normal use, and where stretch is not at all an issue?

Amel's specifications for this line call for 39 meters of 10mm standard polyester line.  That would cost about US$200.  Dyneema would cost almost 3 times that much for no benefit that I can see.

To be sure, other than the expense there is no downside I know of in changing from Amel's original specification on this line, and they are a LOT simpler to splice than standard double braid.  

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA


---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

All,

The boat I was aboard in Martinique last week did not have the original ballooner halyard. See the attached photo which is something I put together from memory on my SM. I would appreciate any/all input, corrections and clarifications. It would be great to know some exact dimensions, including the size of the shackle.

Once I receive your input, I will revise and post the final version for everyone.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Amel54 SSB installation

ngtnewington Newington
 

Hi Dean, 
My 54 had a whip antenna that had broken off at deck level when I bought the boat. Since I replaced all the standing rigging anyway I included backstay isolators for the starboard mizzen backstay located above reach height from deck to which is fixed a cable that is also within a plastic tube, that connects to the tuner in the Lazarette.. There is thus zero risk of someone being burnt during SSB transmission. It is a simple, less expensive arrangement. Furthermore the antenna is 15m long between the two isolators which is the recommended length for the SSB. I prefer this arrangement to the original whip antenna.
Nick
Amelia #019 AML54

On 2 Dec 2018, at 21:09, trifin@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Thanks Daniel,
Interesting (and entertaining), definitely food for thought. I had not considered Joel’s third argumennt at all! For me, another point for consideration would be the cumbersome/unsightly nature of the whip (even before it degrades).

At this stage I’m still not fully convinced about which Tx antenna solution I prefer. I believe a properly sized backstay antenna (in concert with a good antenna tuner) is every bit as efficient as a whip antenna.
In the unlikely event that my rig comes down and I really need to make “that” call, my first response is more likely to be EPIRB activation followed by digging out my emergency antenna.
(Anyone know of a dismasted SM or 54?)
Long term degradation of a whip is managed easily by replacement, and the poor aesthetic is offset by the ease of installation with no requirement for a rigger.

It’s still a line ball for me right now !
Luckily I have a few more months to think about it 😜

Many thanks
Dean Gillies
SY Stella
Amel 54#154


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Amel54 SSB installation

eric freedman
 

Dean,

When I had Kimberlite built. Jean Jacques was adamant about not installing a backstay antenna.

My experience with my other boats is that it is difficult to keep the water out of the coax over time.

 

My whip antenna is still not degrading, however it could use a touch up of the paint .

I don’t know if my antenna is fiberglass, upon looking at the missing spots of paint it looks like aluminum, but I am not sure.

I have had the antenna on Kimberlite for 16  years.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2018 4:09 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Amel54 SSB installation

 

 

Thanks Daniel,
Interesting (and entertaining), definitely food for thought. I had not considered Joel’s third argumennt at all! For me, another point for consideration would be the cumbersome/unsightly nature of the whip (even before it degrades).

At this stage I’m still not fully convinced about which Tx antenna solution I prefer. I believe a properly sized backstay antenna (in concert with a good antenna tuner) is every bit as efficient as a whip antenna.
In the unlikely event that my rig comes down and I really need to make “that” call, my first response is more likely to be EPIRB activation followed by digging out my emergency antenna.
(Anyone know of a dismasted SM or 54?)
Long term degradation of a whip is managed easily by replacement, and the poor aesthetic is offset by the ease of installation with no requirement for a rigger.

It’s still a line ball for me right now !
Luckily I have a few more months to think about it 😜

Many thanks
Dean Gillies
SY Stella
Amel 54#154


Re: Amel54 SSB installation

Dean Gillies
 

Thanks Bill, that’s helpful stuff.

When you suggest Whip for ‘safety reasons’, are you only referring to the possibility that a whip antenna may be able to survive a dis-masting event, or is there something more I may be missing?

Cheers
Dean


Re: Amel54 SSB installation

Dean Gillies
 

Thanks Daniel,
Interesting (and entertaining), definitely food for thought. I had not considered Joel’s third argumennt at all! For me, another point for consideration would be the cumbersome/unsightly nature of the whip (even before it degrades).

At this stage I’m still not fully convinced about which Tx antenna solution I prefer. I believe a properly sized backstay antenna (in concert with a good antenna tuner) is every bit as efficient as a whip antenna.
In the unlikely event that my rig comes down and I really need to make “that” call, my first response is more likely to be EPIRB activation followed by digging out my emergency antenna.
(Anyone know of a dismasted SM or 54?)
Long term degradation of a whip is managed easily by replacement, and the poor aesthetic is offset by the ease of installation with no requirement for a rigger.

It’s still a line ball for me right now !
Luckily I have a few more months to think about it 😜

Many thanks
Dean Gillies
SY Stella
Amel 54#154


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Ballooner Halyard for Maramu, SN, SM and a few 54s

eric freedman
 

Bill,

I replaced my ballooner halyard with vectran and a tylaska shackle.

Olivier said the sheave at the top of the mast is the same as the other halyard sheaves.

I now have 2 halyards for whatever I want to do.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2018 2:25 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Ballooner Halyard for Maramu, SN, SM and a few 54s

 

 

Bill R,

 

The directions you show are for splicing a high tech dyneema or spectra core line.Is there a rational for using such an expensive line on the ballooner halyard which sees no load at all in normal use, and where stretch is not at all an issue?

 

Amel's specifications for this line call for 39 meters of 10mm standard polyester line.  That would cost about US$200.  Dyneema would cost almost 3 times that much for no benefit that I can see.

 

To be sure, other than the expense there is no downside I know of in changing from Amel's original specification on this line, and they are a LOT simpler to splice than standard double braid.  


Bill Kinney

SM160, Harmonie

Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA

 


---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

All,

 

The boat I was aboard in Martinique last week did not have the original ballooner halyard. See the attached photo which is something I put together from memory on my SM. I would appreciate any/all input, corrections and clarifications. It would be great to know some exact dimensions, including the size of the shackle.

Once I receive your input, I will revise and post the final version for everyone.

 

Best,

 

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  
http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Ballooner Halyard for Maramu, SN, SM and a few 54s

greatketch@...
 

Bill R,

The directions you show are for splicing a high tech dyneema or spectra core line.Is there a rational for using such an expensive line on the ballooner halyard which sees no load at all in normal use, and where stretch is not at all an issue?

Amel's specifications for this line call for 39 meters of 10mm standard polyester line.  That would cost about US$200.  Dyneema would cost almost 3 times that much for no benefit that I can see.

To be sure, other than the expense there is no downside I know of in changing from Amel's original specification on this line, and they are a LOT simpler to splice than standard double braid.  

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA


---In amelyachtowners@..., <brouse@...> wrote :

All,

The boat I was aboard in Martinique last week did not have the original ballooner halyard. See the attached photo which is something I put together from memory on my SM. I would appreciate any/all input, corrections and clarifications. It would be great to know some exact dimensions, including the size of the shackle.

Once I receive your input, I will revise and post the final version for everyone.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970



Re: Missing furler release knob

greatketch@...
 

Paul,

Do you have the "new style" furling drum (the one that splits into two parts)? or the older "one piece" style drum?  The drive pins on the two are very different.  It is possible there are even more variations than the two I know of...

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA


---In amelyachtowners@..., <paul.cooper74@...> wrote :

Hello Amelians,


The furler release knob (my name for the thingey that you pull up on and rotate 1/4 turn to disengage the genoa furler motor) has mysteriously disappeared from my boat here in Le Marin (stolen??).


Anyway, Bill Rouse believes someone on the forum has fabricated some of these since they apparently are no longer available.  Does anyone out there have one to spare?


Thanks,


Paul

MARACUYA, SM238


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Ballooner Halyard for Maramu, SN, SM and a few 54s

 

All,

The boat I was aboard in Martinique last week did not have the original ballooner halyard. See the attached photo which is something I put together from memory on my SM. I would appreciate any/all input, corrections and clarifications. It would be great to know some exact dimensions, including the size of the shackle.

Once I receive your input, I will revise and post the final version for everyone.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Bonfiglioli Main Furler Schematic

robin hutter
 

if you had Bonfihglioli before, the will fit - older SM had them, newer had the Leroy Somer - it depends what you have ... - on my previous SM #56 the fit perfectly.

fair winds
Robin
Amel 54 #54
Carré d’As
www.sailing4ever.com

Mallorca/Soain


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Companionway ( washboard ) rubber seal replacement?

Mike Ondra
 

Willem,

Below is a copy of my order for part number 13714X2 that seems to work fine. (I am not sure if pasted graphics come through on the Bulletin Board.) Rock Auto has several profiles for what they call Belt Weatherstrip that can work if you want to explore a bit.

Mike

ALETES SM#240 St. Augustine, FL

 

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@...
Sent: Sunday, December 2, 2018 8:26 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Companionway ( washboard ) rubber seal replacement?

 

 

Hi Alan,

 

What was the part number of the seal you bought from Rockauto?

 

Best regards,

 

Willem Kroes

 

SM#351 KAVANGA


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Bonfiglioli Main Furler Schematic

Ian Park
 

Yes, but only if you already have Bonfiglio. Leyroy Summers are a different fit.
Ian
Ocean Hobo


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Bonfiglioli Main Furler Schematic

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

No, the SM2K had the Leroy Somer.
Here is a comparaison:
http://www.nikimat.com/furler_transmission_leroy_somer_vs_bonfiglioli.html

Sincerely, Alexandre



--------------------------------------------

On Sun, 12/2/18, 'Willem J. Kroes' kavanga@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Bonfiglioli Main Furler Schematic
To: "amelyachtowners@..." <amelyachtowners@...>
Date: Sunday, December 2, 2018, 7:45 AM


 













Hi Robin,

 
Do you
know if these gear boxes are also applicable on Super
Maramu’s?

 
Best
regards,

 
Willem
Kroes

 
SM#351
KAVANGA
Berthed
in Cartagena, Murcia, Spain


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Companionway downward sliding part dimensions

Mark Erdos
 

Willem

 

28” wind by 48” tall will give you ample material.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Santa Marta, Colombia

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, December 2, 2018 9:36 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Companionway downward sliding part dimensions

 

 

Hi Amelians,

 

I am not on my boat now and want to buy bendable teak 0.8 mm to renovate the companion way washboard because bits of the teak veneer are coming off. So I need dimensions of the washboard. Anyone on board of his SM will be so kind to e-mail me these dimensions?

 

Regards,

 

Willem Kroes

 

SM#351 KAVANGA