Date   

Re: Sharki shaft alternator

Ian Park
 

Mark
On my Santorin you have to put the key in and switch on (next to your ameter). The green light comes on. It sends a current to the alternator to excite it and start it charging. You should turn off when finished using it and put your gear lever in reverse to stop the alternator charging before switching on the engine.
I believe the diodes in each of the engine and alternator should prevent any ‘issues’, but that is the prescribed Amel method.
My knowledge of electrics is limited - someone with a better understanding may chip in here.
The Santorin prop shaft pulley is quite a bit bigger too, so will turn the alternator faster. There is a significant drop in prop shaft speed as soon as you turn the alternator on.

Ian


Sharki shaft alternator

marklesparkle59
 

This is the set up on Sharki #96 Sea Hobo. I can't detect any charge at all, but it is very smooth. 
Mark



Sent from my Samsung device


Re: Hawse Pipe Replacement

Gary Silver
 

I did think of one reason to use plastic/PVC/FRP for the hawse pipe; at night in a rolling anchorage you won't be as likely to hear the clanking of the anchor chain in the hawse pipe. ;-)

Gary


Re: Faux Teak and Deck Paint

James Alton
 

Jose,

   The original finish for the faux teak and the stripes were done originally in Polyester gel coat.  Apparently the stripes were hand painted in according to what I have read recently.  Awl grip can be mixed to any colour desired so matching is possible.  Awl grip is a good paint and properly applied can last decade or more in the elements though a deck does get a lot of traffic so maybe less there depending on usage.   I did get 20 years with a custom textured nonskid pattern using Awlgrip on my previous boat and it still looked good when I sold the boat.   I am not sure of how one would properly prepare the textured surface of the gel coat on the Amel deck without losing the original detail of the wood grain in case that is important to you.  Also, applying Awlgrip without some kind of a nonskid coating would probably be quite slick and I don’t like the Awlgrip skidless additives which are high density polypropylene that become quite slick if the paint chips off.  I do have a solution to produce a textured pattern as mentioned above that is very skidless but it will cover the detail in the original of the simulated wood grain.  Nonetheless this is the direction I am considering going in the future.  In the meantime the thick original polyester gel coat may develop cracks and become thin in some spots but will still last a long time.    If you do some searching there should be other discussion about the Amel decks that could be helpful to you.

James
SV Sueno
Maramu #220

On Mar 7, 2019, at 11:39 AM, Jose Venegas via Groups.Io <josegvenegas@...> wrote:

Dear Amelian brother and sisters: 

What kind of paint has been used for the faux teak boards?  
Is there Awlgrip paint colors for the faux teak boards and for the rest of deck?  If not what paint/color has been used for them.When it gets a little warmer I would like to do both the faux teak boards and the stripes, and a year from now have the rest of the deck done.
Any suggestions?

Jose Venegas
Ipanema SM2K #278.
Freezing in Boston harbor.


Re: Marco UP6/E pump and MASS+ light

Scott SV Tengah
 

Thanks Bill, you're likely right.

But I am going to reach out to Marco to see what they say. I wanted to open it but the manual clearly states that the warranty becomes void if I try to service it!


Re: Marco UP6/E pump and MASS+

Scott SV Tengah
 

That's right, the MASS light is lit up when I go to the "+" side. There is 25-26v if I touch one multimeter lead to the pump body and the other to battery negative. 

Currently I've disconnected the bonding wire and of course, the light went out. Once we go to the boatyard for unrelated items in the future, I'll investigate further. With fresh water going through it, I presume not having the bonding wire connected is likely harmless?

Brent - I have tried to connect a wire to the Amel 24v panel freshwater pump light to the red wire (positive) AFTER the pump controller, so between the pump controller and the pump motor. On the UP6/E it's external, so easy to tap into that circuit. For some reason that wire is always energized, even when the pump isn't running. I guess when the controller doesn't want the pump to run, it puts out enough current to light up the Amel 24v panel light, but not enough to run the pump.


Re: Faux Teak and Deck Paint

Arlo
 

I would love to know as well...


Re: propeller Zinc

 

Craig,

Correct, I meant all Amels delivered with an AutoProp. Sorry for the confusion I may have caused.

Best,

Bill Rouse
720 Winnie St.
Galveston, Texas 77550
832-380-4970



On Thu, Mar 7, 2019 at 1:31 PM Craig Briggs via Groups.Io <sangaris=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Point well taken, Bill, although my Santorin was delivered with a fixed 3-blade prob with a conical bronze nut holding it onto the prop shaft. I don't think Amel put Auto-props on the Santorins as the shaft generator was part of the design and needs a fixed prop (or locking feathering one).
Cheers, Craig Briggs SN68


Re: Hawse Pipe Replacement

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Gary et al,

The bolt in question is the starboard aft position. Without it in place and the winch loaded up the whole winch moved so it isn't a question of where was the deck flexing. The body of the winch, without that bolt was bring pulled to lean forward. It was particularly noticeable when breaking the anchor free. I have no reason to believe there was any other cause and I noted once again the Captains attention to detail in not relying on a GRP deck but adding the certain strength of the bolt through the flange onto the hawse pipe. With that bolt in place movement is NIL and has been so for many years. So again I commend caution and attention to this detail when choosing a repair system. The load on the anchor winch can at times be considerable, we are not always anchored in calm water on a clean bottom with little wind.

Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl


With On 08 March 2019 at 08:07 "Gary Silver via Groups.Io" <garysilver@...> wrote:

Hi Danny:

Thanks for that re-iteration.  Can you describe in more detail where the deck was flexing?  Was it just at the bolt location or over a wider area?  The deck is stiffened also by the vertical fore-aft wall between the port and starboard sides.   Was the tab on the hawse pipe acting merely as a backing plate or was it the fiberglass collar with the hawse pipe as an assemblage that provided stiffening. 

I remember years ago Joel warned against attaching an inner forestay to the cleat on the winch or to the decking in that area without carrying the loads down to tougher structure.  

Thanks for any additional insight you might provide. 

Gary S. Silver
s/v Liahona 
Amel SM 2000 #335


Re: Hawse Pipe Replacement

Craig Briggs
 

Hi Alan,
Per earlier post in this thread, I did this with PVC, no flanges (as the original had none), just glassed in with good fillets on underside of deck and top of locker floor. Perfect for 3 years, now.
My galvanized pipe started rusting out after, I'd guess, 20 years, but we anchored probably 2000-ish different times times.
Craig Briggs, SN68 Sangaris


Re: propeller Zinc

Craig Briggs
 

Point well taken, Bill, although my Santorin was delivered with a fixed 3-blade prob with a conical bronze nut holding it onto the prop shaft. I don't think Amel put Auto-props on the Santorins as the shaft generator was part of the design and needs a fixed prop (or locking feathering one).
Cheers, Craig Briggs SN68


Re: Hawse Pipe Replacement

Gary Silver
 

Hi Danny:

Thanks for that re-iteration.  Can you describe in more detail where the deck was flexing?  Was it just at the bolt location or over a wider area?  The deck is stiffened also by the vertical fore-aft wall between the port and starboard sides.   Was the tab on the hawse pipe acting merely as a backing plate or was it the fiberglass collar with the hawse pipe as an assemblage that provided stiffening. 

I remember years ago Joel warned against attaching an inner forestay to the cleat on the winch or to the decking in that area without carrying the loads down to tougher structure.  

Thanks for any additional insight you might provide. 

Gary S. Silver
s/v Liahona 
Amel SM 2000 #335


Re: Hawse Pipe Replacement

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi All,

I am taking the very unusual step of repeating my recent information. On SM 299 the steel hawse pipe and its upper flange are an integral part of securing the anchor winch through the bolt that goes through the flange. Without repeating the detail, I was minus that bolt for a short period and there was significant  and unacceptable flexing of the deck when the winch was in use hauling the anchor. So unless your model has another method of stiffening the deck I would counsel  any replacement should include awareness of this.

Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 08 March 2019 at 07:15 "Gary Silver via Groups.Io" <garysilver@...> wrote:

Hi Alan: 

I am surprised to hear of number of boats affected.  It seems this is a common failure mode.  I have not done mine. I only discovered the problem when I spent a couple of days inside both of my forward lockers (lazarettes) doing the repairs on their floors.  Really not that bad of a job with a tyvek suit and full face respirator.  Prior to that I had never looked up, to the underside of the locker "ceiling" but I found the FRP "collar" at the top of the pipe split due to the pressure of the underlying rust.  Since I had my angle grinder in hand I ground enough FRP away to see the extensive rust of the pipe and flange.  I couldn't see any evidence of water intrusion, like salt crystals etc, and I am at a bit of a loss as to why this rusted so badly.  I will definitely do a non-rusting repair.  I don't believe this hawse pipe was structural in any way since there is only a single tab at the top and nothing tying it to the floor except the lower FRP collar. We all know that the floor of these lockers are under engineered for the loads imposed in pounding seas (e.g. tabbed only on the top so that loads tend to delaminate the plywood and un-protected from below from the moisture of the chain locker resulting in rot of the wood). 

I just don't see the need to place anything made of mild steel (galvanized or not) on an ocean going boat.  Like most of these things the cost of the materials is minuscule compared to the labor and grief involved in re-dos. Just my two cent worth. 

Gary S. Silver
s/v Liahona
Amel SM 2000 #335


Re: Marco UP6/E pump and MASS+

Brent Cameron
 

Bill, I had a look at the manuals for the UP6/E and MASS+ and the associated PCS, and it is clear from the pictures of the PCS circuit board that the RJ11 (phone not ethernet) jack is sending digital signals that are being picked up by a small Arduino CPU and translated for control purposes so there would be no easy way to tap into that to get a run light connected.  The reason I’m interested in this is that I ran into a similar problem on a friend's Amel (a Super Maramu) using a different pump.  It seemed  that the original Amel pump had a wire that was energized with 24V when the pump Motor was on but the new (Jabsco) pump didn’t have a provision for that.  

It could be handled fairly simply by putting a normally open relay in the circuit that provides power to the motor that would close the relay upon power being applied to the motor.  The controlled side of the relay could be wired from a 24V source to the light and back to the supply side ground.  This way, when ever the motor was energized, the relay would close, allowing 24V to turn on the light.  On the Jabsco, that was relatively easy as the power and the energized motor wires were easily accessible but you’d still need to put the whole contraption into a watertight box so wouldn’t necessarily be cheap - and introduces another failure point. That said, on this particular pump, you’d have to tap into the circuit that is between the pump controller and the pump motor to power the relay which would probably mean opening the case, so I’d probably just spring $90 for the PCS and be done with it as it provides a lot more information than just on/off.

It does look like a fine pump though.  

Brent Cameron, Future SM2K Owner

--
Brent Cameron

Future Super Maramu 2000 Owner & Amel Owner Registry Moderator

Oro-Medonte, Ontario, Canada


Re: Hawse Pipe Replacement

Gary Silver
 

Hi Alan: 

I am surprised to hear of number of boats affected.  It seems this is a common failure mode.  I have not done mine. I only discovered the problem when I spent a couple of days inside both of my forward lockers (lazarettes) doing the repairs on their floors.  Really not that bad of a job with a tyvek suit and full face respirator.  Prior to that I had never looked up, to the underside of the locker "ceiling" but I found the FRP "collar" at the top of the pipe split due to the pressure of the underlying rust.  Since I had my angle grinder in hand I ground enough FRP away to see the extensive rust of the pipe and flange.  I couldn't see any evidence of water intrusion, like salt crystals etc, and I am at a bit of a loss as to why this rusted so badly.  I will definitely do a non-rusting repair.  I don't believe this hawse pipe was structural in any way since there is only a single tab at the top and nothing tying it to the floor except the lower FRP collar. We all know that the floor of these lockers are under engineered for the loads imposed in pounding seas (e.g. tabbed only on the top so that loads tend to delaminate the plywood and un-protected from below from the moisture of the chain locker resulting in rot of the wood). 

I just don't see the need to place anything made of mild steel (galvanized or not) on an ocean going boat.  Like most of these things the cost of the materials is minuscule compared to the labor and grief involved in re-dos. Just my two cent worth. 

Gary S. Silver
s/v Liahona
Amel SM 2000 #335


Re: Hawse Pipe Replacement

svcharisma
 

Gary,
thank you for starting this thread.  I am also getting ready to take on this project.  I am interested to hear if anyone has actually done this yet and what the results have been.  I do have to say that my galvanized pipe lasted for 30 years.  Replacing it in kind is also a possible option.

Alan Spence
Mango #62


Re: propeller Zinc

 

Alessandro,

All Santorins, Super Maramus, 54s, and 55s were delivered new from Amel with a plastic cap. They were all red, except possibly late model 54s and all 55s which were black.

The Amel bonding system was designed to protect the AutoProp propeller, which is made by Bruntons. For years, Bruntons said to install a zinc anode on the AutoProp propeller. Recently, Bruntons agrees with Henri that the Amel bonding system is better than the anode on the AutoProp propeller.

There are some Amel owners that install the zinc.

If I owned your beautiful Super Maramu, it would have the original plastic cap and not the zinc anode on the AutoProp propeller.

Best,

Bill Rouse
720 Winnie St.
Galveston, Texas 77550
832-380-4970



On Thu, Mar 7, 2019 at 11:41 AM via Groups.Io <agennai=me.com@groups.io> wrote:
If I understood properly  you suggest don’t use zinc in the propeller, isn’t it?



Re: Bow locker floor replacement.....

James Alton
 

Thomas,
Your post about making replacement of the PVC tube very easy got me to thinking about how this could be done.  What if instead of planning to replace the PVC tube, a simple sacrificial flanged plastic bushing was made to fit into the PVC pipe on the bottom face of the anchor locker?  Since the bushing would have a  smaller ID than the PVC it would take all of the side loads and eliminate essentially all of the wear on the PVC pipe?  It might be good to make the ID of the PCV tube a little larger to allow for the hole in the sacrificial bushing to be of sufficient size.  I believe that the base hole in the windlass is already serving the function of the bushing at the top so only a bushing at the bottom would be needed.  Perhaps the bushing could be made to screw in place to eliminate having to install many fasteners in that difficult area to work?  

James
SV Sueno
Maramu #220

On Mar 7, 2019, at 11:01 AM, Thomas Kleman <lorient422@...> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

Craig- my upper flange will be water-tight and glued/glassed to the underside of the deck under the windlass. It fits tightly inside the pipe; thus a water-tight joint unless water can flow upwards. The pipe will run through the locker floor (which will be glassed both sides) and have a flange underneath the floor which it enters. The flange is slightly lower than the glassed floor. The area around the flange under the floor will be waterproof. 

I haven't started the project yet (tomorrow) but at this point I see no need to glass the outside of a thick piece of pvc which I might need to replace someday. It would not impact waterproofing unless the pipe wore through, thus validating my design criteria that ease of replacement is important.


Re: propeller Zinc

alessandro gennai <agennai@...>
 

If I understood properly you suggest don’t use zinc in the propeller, isn’t it?


Re: Bow locker floor replacement.....

James Alton
 

Oliver,

   Thank you for taking the time to add your wisdom to the discussion.  I am very happy with the  heavily glassed fibreglass tubes in my boat such as the cockpit drains.  It is so nice that by making the drains essentially as strong as the hull that there is no need for the complication of valves,  hoses, clamps and the normal type connections.

   The chain pipe on Sueno also appears to be heavily glassed and very strong.  I can imagine that in the case of a chain ball or some other snag that suddenly stopped a rapid chain deployment that the forces could be very high on the locker floor.  A strong chain pipe could serve as a compression member to transfer the loads to the underside of the deck, great engineering IMO.  I agree with the original Amel design in making all of these critical tubes strong and if I ever have to rebuild my chain locker, I will certainly restore the original amount of strength or more.   

Best,

James Alton
SV Sueno
Maramu #220

On Mar 7, 2019, at 6:11 AM, Beaute Olivier via Groups.Io <atlanticyachtsurvey@...> wrote:

Hi everybody,

the two master pieces made of PVC tube glassed to the hull and deck are the cockpit drains. These pipes are in fact glassed with GRP on their whole outside surface, and then glassed with the hull and deck. No need to mention that they really need to be watertight and resistant to a shock. If you hit them with your hand, you will feel that they are strong.

There are other glassed PVC tubes in critical places such as the air vent pipe of the bow-thruster box and the one inside the dorade box of the engine room air exhaust circuit (they need to be watertight). 

The hawse pipe needs to be watertight too, and there is nothing like a glassing to do it right. However, the hawse pipe surroundings remain a wet area, and the possible damages from a leaking hawse pipe will not be very serious, except that it may bring water into the plywood floor, which will rot in the long run (as you all know).

Good luck Thomas.

Olivier



On Thursday, March 7, 2019, 1:09:20 AM GMT+1, Warren Traill <trailz@...> wrote:


Thanks Craig. 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Craig Briggs via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, 6 March 2019 11:55 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Bow locker floor replacement.....

 

Hi Warren,
Sorry, I don't recall the exact diameter but it was essentially the same as the original, to the closest US size I could find. It's not too critical since you're glassing in the new one so there's wiggle room. I only took "gee whiz" pictures of the old rotted out tube, but a picture of the finished job may not be very informative since it looks just like the old one (before it rusted out :-)
Best, Craig SN68 Sangaris