Date   

Re: Faux Teak and Deck Paint

James Alton
 

Jose,

   When you say that the Faux-teak is missing in places do those thin areas look white by chance? If so closely by feel deck where you have the white areas and you may find that the wood grain texture exists in these areas, they are just the wrong colour.  In looking at my boat, I am pretty certain that Amel brushed the gel coat into the mold for the Faux teak colour and then sprayed the rest of the deck mold with the white gel coat that we see on the areas outside of the Faux teak area.   This makes sense from a production standpoint because to spray the Faux-teak area would require masking off the entire deck mold except for the Faux-teak area..a lot of extra work.  It is really hard to brush gel coat to a  perfectly even thickness  so perfectly normal to have some thinner areas.  These thin areas look on my boat like brush marks because actually they are, only from the reverse side. (grin)  The only point I wanted to make was that on my boat at least, enough white gel coat was sprayed over the top of the Faux Teak gel coat that despite the Faux-Teak colour being thin in places, the fibreglass is well covered and protected.  So I view this as just a cosmetic issue so pretty low down on my to do list currently.  

  You can certainly experiment with patching in the Faux-teak colour where it is missing.  I have not yet tried touching up my decks using the ideas that follow so your mileage may vary but I have done similar touchups on some other projects.  Unfortunately the results I have obtained are never as good as the original but there has always been improvement..  I would suggest getting a flattening agent for your Awlgrip to reduce the gloss and improve the traction some.  You will need to experiment with how much to add to get your best match.  The paint will need to be dry to know for sure how it will look. Go for a bit too shiny as the trend will be for the Awlgrip to flatten more over time.    As you found out, super shiny Awlgrip is really slippery stuff.  

  I wish that I could suggest an anti-slip additive for painted surfaces but I have not really found one that I like much and I have tried more than a dozen over the years.  Sand does work great for nonskid but it is too hard to sand down with normal sandpaper so when the time comes to recoat you have a problem.  Sand also has a colour so will show up as the paint wears down or chips off of the sand bits and this is the problem with many of the other additives.  We have had good luck using glass beads to varnish.  These tiny beads are added to the paint used for reflective stripping on the roads.  With (Including the Awlgrip /Awlbrite varnish) varnish, the glass beads disappear visually though the non-skid texture remains.  You can also sand them down when the time comes which is a little confusing since I would think that glass would be too hard to sand too but it does work.  I have not tried the glass beads with the Awlgrip paint but it might be worth doing a small test panel to see if you like it or not.  The fine Awlgrip non-skid additive will hold up the best of the additives they sell.  The more coarse Awlgrip additives become very slippery over time as the paint sticks poorly to the plastic bits so eventually you end up walking on the exposed plastic bits as the paint chips off.  I developed a technique where I thicken the Awlgrip and apply it with a roller.  It makes the best non skid I have walked on to date but it would completely cover you wood grain. 

   If you go to the Awlgrip.com website and click on colours at the top of the page, you will see the option to have custom colours created.  Awl grip can be applied in thin coats which you can use to your advantage in blending the paint to the Faux-Teak gel coat.  Build up thin coats  as needed to cover your thin areas and then enlarge the patched area with additional coats to end up with only one thin coat at the edge of the repair. You want to spread out your laps in other words.  You could also do a little wet sanding and polishing around the blend lines to help the paint blend into the gelcoat.  A tiny HVLP spray gun might also work well in doing these touchup areas but it takes a little practice.

   I am not really sure how to properly prepare the Faux-teak gelcoat surface for paint since you are wanting to retain the wood grain effect.  Sandpaper will tend to flatten the surface so the only other option I have used are the Maroon Scotchbrite pads which you can compress into the low areas to scratch all surfaces.  The surface really needs to be freshly scratched everywhere to get a decent bond. Awl grip is supposed to be applied over a primer such as the 545 but white or gray are your only options so will complicate patching.   I have found that the Awlgrip topcoats actually have great adhesion to a prepared surface as rule so if I try patching I will omit the primer.  

  Glad to hear that you like the Awlgrip on your hull.

Best of luck with the patching, please let me know what seems to work for you.

Best,

James
SV Sueno
Maramu #220

On Mar 8, 2019, at 4:03 PM, Jose Venegas via Groups.Io <josegvenegas@...> wrote:

James,

Thanks for your info.  When I had Ipanema's hull done with Awl grip 5 years ago, the also covered the non-skid sections of the stern, making them quite skiddy.  I complained and they added an extra layer with a few grains of sand or something like that which made the better.  However, I did not like the look of it compared with the original finish.  Because Ipanemas Faux-teak is in general good, after what you tell me I will try to get some thinner paint to have a few touches in the areas where it is missing, hopefully not reducing too much the pattern.
Interested in finding out if people have used other methods to deal with the problem

By the way, the hull painted wit Awl grip still looks shining after more than 5 years and with very little work.  I will use it on the deck when ready to do it in a year or two

Jose 
Ipanema SM2K 278


Re: Faux Teak and Deck Paint

Craig Briggs
 

Hey Jose,
I've got the same issue on Sangaris, with the original faux teak wearing off and showing brush strokes.  From a prior life I recall there's an attribute of paint called "bridging". That's the paint's ability to fill in uneven surfaces. 

There are also "anti-bridging" paints that don't fill in the surfaces, although they are mostly for acoustical applications.  So, that's more than I know about the subject, but I wonder if anyone listening might have a PhD in the subject, or, better yet, have done it. I'd love to get a "Non-bridging" paint to redo my decks so as to keep the non-skid properties. If you think about it, that's kind of like keeping the acoustical properties of a surface.

Best, Craig Briggs SN68 Sangaris


Re: Bow locker floor replacement.....

Craig Briggs
 

Hi Thomas, 

No, I didn't reinforce under the floor. That thin tabbing from the original floor, which I ground back to be about 2" wide, really provides tremendous strength - after all it was all that Amel relied upon in the original construction. With the new floor just about touching the hull sides, it gets huge purchase on the old "thin" tab and, since the hull slants inward under it, any downward force is really disbursed nicely into the hull sides. Actually, when that had cured, I knew I had a good structure, even before I filleted and tabbed in on the top side of the floor.

So now I've got essentially the the full strength of the original Amel structure, plus yet another identical structure on top of the floor. Jumping up and down on it, albeit just anecdotal evidence, tells me this sucker is REALLY strong (and, I lost my girlish figure long ago!).  So that's my story and I'm stickin' to it!

Cheers, Craig Briggs, SN68 


Re: Faux Teak and Deck Paint

Jose Venegas
 

James,

Thanks for your info.  When I had Ipanema's hull done with Awl grip 5 years ago, the also covered the non-skid sections of the stern, making them quite skiddy.  I complained and they added an extra layer with a few grains of sand or something like that which made the better.  However, I did not like the look of it compared with the original finish.  Because Ipanemas Faux-teak is in general good, after what you tell me I will try to get some thinner paint to have a few touches in the areas where it is missing, hopefully not reducing too much the pattern.
Interested in finding out if people have used other methods to deal with the problem

By the way, the hull painted wit Awl grip still looks shining after more than 5 years and with very little work.  I will use it on the deck when ready to do it in a year or two

Jose 
Ipanema SM2K 278


Re: Bow locker floor replacement.....

James Alton
 

Thomas,

   Glad to see that you are getting some good direction from Craig.  I would definitely take his advice about pre glassing the bottom of the panels.  I would only suggest that:

1.  If you are going to use plywood again to do everything that you can to seal all edges, holes to prevent water from getting in there again.  
2.  I think that it is most cost effective to spend some money up front and use a high quality marine plywood of a wood species that has a “durable” rating. Some options would be a solid core Sapele,  Fir (be sure all plys are Fir, often only the faces are Fir these days, Bruyneel etc. so that you have rot resistant wood that will last quite a while even after the water gets in. (the anchor locker is a perpetually wet environment when the boat is in use without doing a lot of work so eventually water will get in)   Any of these quality plywoods should have a waterproof glue but be absolutely sure that at the minimum you have an exterior rating.  Many of the best Marine plywoods will bear the Loyds stamp.

Best of luck with your project,

James
SV Sueno
Maramu #220

On Mar 8, 2019, at 11:32 AM, Thomas Kleman <lorient422@...> wrote:

Day 1 of the bow locker floor replacement. I'm reminded of the elder Moltke's tenet that no plan survives first contact with the enemy. As I cut the port bow locker's floor out, the 3 inch lip I was leaving to later mount the new floor on completely separated (wood from the fiberglass). Now there is only a 3 inch thin fiberglass lip with no plywood underneath it. There was no structure holding the plywood up from underneath along the port side. It seems to have been glassed/supported from the top only. When water penetrated the wood the fiberglass broke away. When the time comes to install the new floor, I suppose I will need to create the lip I thought would still be in place......thoughts ? 


Re: Bow locker floor replacement.....

Thomas Kleman
 

Craig- did you reinforce under the floor in any way or is all the hold coming from the sides and top tabbing (the thin fiberglass lip notwithstanding). I feel like I should have some kind of wedge shaped support underneath it but that might be overkill.....or can there be overkill on something like this ?


Re: Sharki shaft alternator

amel46met
 

Hello 
Does anyone in the group use a Max Prop with the shaft alternator I have read that it does work any tricks?
Tom Deasy 
Maramu 125


On Mar 8, 2019, at 8:10 AM, marklesparkle59 <marklesparkle59@...> wrote:

Thanks Ian. I am struggling to get to grips with the electrical system. The engine/starboard alternator is charging but not sure about the domestic/port alternator and I dont really understand the data my shiney new clamp meter is giving me. I need to read a book I think.
Mark



Sent from my Samsung device


-------- Original message --------
From: Ian <parkianj@...>
Date: 08/03/2019 11:52 (GMT+00:00)
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Sharki shaft alternator

Mark
On my Santorin you have to put the key in and switch on (next to your ameter). The green light comes on. It sends a current to the alternator to excite it and start it charging. You should turn off when finished using it and put your gear lever in reverse to stop the alternator charging before switching on the engine.
I believe the diodes in each of the engine and alternator should prevent any ‘issues’, but that is the prescribed Amel method.
My knowledge of electrics is limited - someone with a better understanding may chip in here.
The Santorin prop shaft pulley is quite a bit bigger too, so will turn the alternator faster. There is a significant drop in prop shaft speed as soon as you turn the alternator on.

Ian




Re: Bow locker floor replacement.....

Mark Erdos
 

Tom,

 

Better to pay attention to someone who actually did it themselves than someone who paid Amel to do it J

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Santa Marta, Colombia

www.creampuff.us

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Craig Briggs via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, March 8, 2019 1:42 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Bow locker floor replacement.....

 

Hi Thomas,
Yes, that's how they come out, which is good as you are now rid of all the old rotted wood.

After sanding and cleaning that lip and 3-ish inches up on the hull, I applied a generous amount of a peanut butter consistency mix of resin and chopped strand to the thin lip. I had glassed my new plywood both top and bottom and simply laid that into the wet "putty" (I had used "bonding" resin on the floor board coverings, but you could sand and acetone wash if it's cured.) 

Then I filled the gap between the new floor board and hull side, forming a smooth fillet up the side of the hull about 3/4" inch.  Next I tabbed the floor onto the hull sides, with the tabbing starting about 3 or 4 inches in on the floor, smoothly across the fillet, and then 3 -4 inches up the inside of the hull. 

I think I've probably got a stronger structure than the original.
Craig Briggs, SN68 Sangaris


Re: Bow locker floor replacement.....

Craig Briggs
 

Hi Thomas,
Yes, that's how they come out, which is good as you are now rid of all the old rotted wood.

After sanding and cleaning that lip and 3-ish inches up on the hull, I applied a generous amount of a peanut butter consistency mix of resin and chopped strand to the thin lip. I had glassed my new plywood both top and bottom and simply laid that into the wet "putty" (I had used "bonding" resin on the floor board coverings, but you could sand and acetone wash if it's cured.) 

Then I filled the gap between the new floor board and hull side, forming a smooth fillet up the side of the hull about 3/4" inch.  Next I tabbed the floor onto the hull sides, with the tabbing starting about 3 or 4 inches in on the floor, smoothly across the fillet, and then 3 -4 inches up the inside of the hull. 

I think I've probably got a stronger structure than the original.
Craig Briggs, SN68 Sangaris


Re: Bow locker floor replacement.....

Mark Erdos
 

Is it possible to cut 3” wide stripes of the marine plywood. (they may not need to be this wide) cut to length. Resin these to the hull and bulkhead making a new shelf. You will probably have to grind the existing area to ensure it is clean before applying resin and cloth. You will also have to rig up a support to ensure they do not slip during the drying time.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Santa Marta, Colombia

www.creampuff.us

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Thomas Kleman
Sent: Friday, March 8, 2019 12:32 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Bow locker floor replacement.....

 

Day 1 of the bow locker floor replacement. I'm reminded of the elder Moltke's tenet that no plan survives first contact with the enemy. As I cut the port bow locker's floor out, the 3 inch lip I was leaving to later mount the new floor on completely separated (wood from the fiberglass). Now there is only a 3 inch thin fiberglass lip with no plywood underneath it. There was no structure holding the plywood up from underneath along the port side. It seems to have been glassed/supported from the top only. When water penetrated the wood the fiberglass broke away. When the time comes to install the new floor, I suppose I will need to create the lip I thought would still be in place......thoughts ? 


Re: Bow locker floor replacement.....

Thomas Kleman
 

Day 1 of the bow locker floor replacement. I'm reminded of the elder Moltke's tenet that no plan survives first contact with the enemy. As I cut the port bow locker's floor out, the 3 inch lip I was leaving to later mount the new floor on completely separated (wood from the fiberglass). Now there is only a 3 inch thin fiberglass lip with no plywood underneath it. There was no structure holding the plywood up from underneath along the port side. It seems to have been glassed/supported from the top only. When water penetrated the wood the fiberglass broke away. When the time comes to install the new floor, I suppose I will need to create the lip I thought would still be in place......thoughts ? 


Re: propeller Zinc

Paul Stascavage
 

When we purchased RK she was equipped with the zinc on the auto prop and the bonding system was tested and intact. A short time after moving aboard, I noticed the main bonding wire had become detached from the rudder post and I corrected this immediately. We hauled for paint no too long afterwards and I was glad we had that zinc on the prop. Approximately 25 percent was gone.

I have no idea how long that bonding wire was disconnected but I don’t think it could have been much more than a couple months. In my opinion I think the prop zinc is a good backup for ‘just in case’ situations.

All the Best,

Paul Stascavage
S/V Rita Kathryn SM #466

RitaKathryn.com

Currently Cruising Bahamas


Re: Bow locker floor replacement.....

James Alton
 

Thomas,

     PVC could work but I was envisioning using a more slippery plastic than PVC for the sacrificial plastic bushing.  Perhaps Nylon?  I would suggest shaping the part without any square edges for the chain to catch on with a good size flange that would rest on the bottom face of the anchor locker.  It may be difficult to find anything that fits the ID of your PVC pipe since things are generally sized to fit the outside of PVC pipe, hence this would probably be a custom part turned on a lathe.  The good news is that you could probably install the bushing at a later date giving you time to find or have something made and shipped to you which  could save you that bone jarring ride.  

Best of luck,

James
SV Sueno
Maramu #220

On Mar 8, 2019, at 7:02 AM, Thomas Kleman <lorient422@...> wrote:

James- I like your idea, although it sends me on a 45 minute bone jarring cab ride here in Colon, Panama to a ferreteria. Would you make it out of pvc or something else ?


Re: Sharki shaft alternator

marklesparkle59
 

Thanks Ian. I am struggling to get to grips with the electrical system. The engine/starboard alternator is charging but not sure about the domestic/port alternator and I dont really understand the data my shiney new clamp meter is giving me. I need to read a book I think.
Mark



Sent from my Samsung device


-------- Original message --------
From: Ian <parkianj@...>
Date: 08/03/2019 11:52 (GMT+00:00)
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Sharki shaft alternator

Mark
On my Santorin you have to put the key in and switch on (next to your ameter). The green light comes on. It sends a current to the alternator to excite it and start it charging. You should turn off when finished using it and put your gear lever in reverse to stop the alternator charging before switching on the engine.
I believe the diodes in each of the engine and alternator should prevent any ‘issues’, but that is the prescribed Amel method.
My knowledge of electrics is limited - someone with a better understanding may chip in here.
The Santorin prop shaft pulley is quite a bit bigger too, so will turn the alternator faster. There is a significant drop in prop shaft speed as soon as you turn the alternator on.

Ian




Re: Bow locker floor replacement.....

Thomas Kleman
 

James- I like your idea, although it sends me on a 45 minute bone jarring cab ride here in Colon, Panama to a ferreteria. Would you make it out of pvc or something else ?


Re: Sharki shaft alternator

Ian Park
 

Mark
On my Santorin you have to put the key in and switch on (next to your ameter). The green light comes on. It sends a current to the alternator to excite it and start it charging. You should turn off when finished using it and put your gear lever in reverse to stop the alternator charging before switching on the engine.
I believe the diodes in each of the engine and alternator should prevent any ‘issues’, but that is the prescribed Amel method.
My knowledge of electrics is limited - someone with a better understanding may chip in here.
The Santorin prop shaft pulley is quite a bit bigger too, so will turn the alternator faster. There is a significant drop in prop shaft speed as soon as you turn the alternator on.

Ian


Sharki shaft alternator

marklesparkle59
 

This is the set up on Sharki #96 Sea Hobo. I can't detect any charge at all, but it is very smooth. 
Mark



Sent from my Samsung device


Re: Hawse Pipe Replacement

Gary Silver
 

I did think of one reason to use plastic/PVC/FRP for the hawse pipe; at night in a rolling anchorage you won't be as likely to hear the clanking of the anchor chain in the hawse pipe. ;-)

Gary


Re: Faux Teak and Deck Paint

James Alton
 

Jose,

   The original finish for the faux teak and the stripes were done originally in Polyester gel coat.  Apparently the stripes were hand painted in according to what I have read recently.  Awl grip can be mixed to any colour desired so matching is possible.  Awl grip is a good paint and properly applied can last decade or more in the elements though a deck does get a lot of traffic so maybe less there depending on usage.   I did get 20 years with a custom textured nonskid pattern using Awlgrip on my previous boat and it still looked good when I sold the boat.   I am not sure of how one would properly prepare the textured surface of the gel coat on the Amel deck without losing the original detail of the wood grain in case that is important to you.  Also, applying Awlgrip without some kind of a nonskid coating would probably be quite slick and I don’t like the Awlgrip skidless additives which are high density polypropylene that become quite slick if the paint chips off.  I do have a solution to produce a textured pattern as mentioned above that is very skidless but it will cover the detail in the original of the simulated wood grain.  Nonetheless this is the direction I am considering going in the future.  In the meantime the thick original polyester gel coat may develop cracks and become thin in some spots but will still last a long time.    If you do some searching there should be other discussion about the Amel decks that could be helpful to you.

James
SV Sueno
Maramu #220

On Mar 7, 2019, at 11:39 AM, Jose Venegas via Groups.Io <josegvenegas@...> wrote:

Dear Amelian brother and sisters: 

What kind of paint has been used for the faux teak boards?  
Is there Awlgrip paint colors for the faux teak boards and for the rest of deck?  If not what paint/color has been used for them.When it gets a little warmer I would like to do both the faux teak boards and the stripes, and a year from now have the rest of the deck done.
Any suggestions?

Jose Venegas
Ipanema SM2K #278.
Freezing in Boston harbor.


Re: Marco UP6/E pump and MASS+ light

Scott SV Tengah
 

Thanks Bill, you're likely right.

But I am going to reach out to Marco to see what they say. I wanted to open it but the manual clearly states that the warranty becomes void if I try to service it!

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