Earth bonding and watermaker

Arno Luijten

Hi All,

I'm wondering about a thing after removing my Duo watermaker. I noticed quite some galvanic corrosion despite the fact that the green/yellow bonding wire was attached at several points to the watermaker.
I was actually just in time taking the thing apart as I'm still able to salvage all the important bits.
From traces I could see I'm guessing one of the endcaps on the pump has been leaking also given the amount of salt build-up at the chassis and pump-base.

What I'm wondering about is the bonding sytem. Is it also connected to the shore power earth lead? From earlier conversations I vaguely remember it was not connected.  If not then why is the earth connection of the 230 Volt pump connected to the mains earth?

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121

Re: Gross tonnage on SM

Craig Briggs

Edited

Pat,
Here's a link to the US Coast Guard's Simplified Measurement Guide I mentioned.USCG Simplified Tonnage Guide
You can use this for vessels under 79 feet. As Olivier points out different countries have different methods.

You should work it out yourself, but, for your SM it would be ABOUT the following (I had to guess at a couple of numbers but you can fine tune it.
GRT = (Hull volume + Deckhouse Volume) / 100
Where Hull Volume = S x K x L x B x D and Deck Structure Volume = Ls x Ds x Bs
L, B and D are overall length, breadth and depth, but depth is measured from the deck edge to the bottom of the keel.
You consider the Deck Volume to be 0 if it is less than the hull volume, which it is.
S is a Shape factor which is 0.5 for sailboats. K is a Keel factor which is 0.75 for our shape of sailboat.

So, let's use Richard Colebatch's posting for your SM dimensions. That is 52.49' in Length and  15.09' in Breath.
Richard shows a Water Draft of 6.73' from the bottom of the keel to the water line and let me guess another 6' of freeboard to the edge of the deck.
That would be a Depth of 11.73' (which seems about right as my Santorin's Depth is 10.5')

So the SM Gross Register Tons (GRT) would be (they say to round feet to the nearest tenth):
S  x  K    x  L     x   B    x  D
0.5 x 0.75 x 52.5 x 15.1 x 11.8  = 3507  / 100  = 35 GRT
Then, NRT = M x GRT, where M is a Machinery factor which is .9 for sailboats, so
NRT = .9 x 35 = 31  (you are instructed to truncate any fraction)

So, it does seem your numbers are, indeed, way high and should be more like a GRT of 35 and NRT of 31.

Bill Rouse's GRT 27, NRT 24 comes from his Documentation Certificate, I'm sure, but seems low as my Santorin is 31 and 28 and the USCG calculation above is pretty straightforward. Anyway, there are lot of other numbers in this thread that may have their origin in countries other than the US and/or may be weight based. Numbers that have fractions are definitely not US GRT/NRT, which are always whole numbers. Also, in the US the documentation is pretty much self reported with, seemingly, very little checking by the NVDOC. Whatever, your's seems high.

The US Coast Guard's National Vessel Documentation center has a super new website that it very easy to navigate and you may be able to change your numbers on-line. Check it out.

Cheers, Craig Briggs, SN68 with  GRT 31 NRT 28

Re: Sharki shaft alternator

Gerhard Mueller

Mark
Coming back to your picture of the gearbox.
I have been searching now for my gearbox sticker but it was difficult to read because this sticker was at baboard side of the gearbox.
As far as I can see the manufacturer is "Hurth" and the type should be "HBW-20-3R". Type HBW-20 is for sure but the ratio (3R) is guessed only because so hard to read.
However it is the same gearbox you have. The oil type is ATF-A and the oil quantity should be 0.3 liters. On top of the gearbox is no ID plate but only the ATF-A sticker.
--
Gerhard Mueller
Amel Sharki #60
Currently Kalamata, Greece

Re: Discharge manifold repair/replacement

rossirossix4

Edited

Hi Paul,
This may apply although it involves the distribution manifold and might be of general interest.  When I was in the Amel shop in Le Marin (not that far from you), this caught my eye.  François, who had fabricated it explained that it was for an Amel 54 and I believe he said it was €800.  Looked like a really great idea to me....I took a pic and made a mental note to think about making up one back in the States using Bill's dimensions.  (For you SM owners) he did indicate to me that he would consider fabricating one for an SM.  Gotta love the individual ball valves. Plus acid cleaner possibilities....

Bob and Suzanne, KAIMI

Re: Gross tonnage on SM

Olivier Beaute

Hello,

a vessel's tonnage is indeed a volume (how much can this vessel carry). This international value is now expressed without unit's name.
It was previously expressed in tons or tonneaux (for France). This "ton" is not equivalent to a metric ton which is the weight of 1000 liters of water, but it is equivalent to 100 cubic feet which is around 2.837 cubic meter

Every country's authority has its own calculation for tonnage (from length, beam and inside height).
This is why the tonnage of a Super Maramu is 30.14 in France and is, for instance 33.24 (gross tonnage) and 23.35 (Register tonnage) in UK.
It will for sure be different for Australian or NZ or US flag.

However, Pat's tonnage seems high.

Olivier.

On Wednesday, March 13, 2019, 10:40:10 PM GMT+1, Patrick McAneny via Groups.Io <sailw32@...> wrote:

I should have mentioned that I knew tonnage was not the weight of the boat ,but a volume measurement . Still it seemed high and apparently that is the case and I will have it changed. Thanks for the correct numbers.
Pat
SM Shenanigans

Re: Opua meeting.

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS

For sure

On 14 March 2019 at 13:05 Germain Jean-Pierre <jp.germain45@...> wrote:

Hi Danny,

Put some beer in your fridge

:-)

On 14 Mar 2019, at 11:37, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS < simms@...> wrote:

Good to see you too JP. Hope you make it to mill bay. The club there does a great dinner Friday nights, and and we live there

Regards

Danny

On 14 March 2019 at 11:26 Germain Jean-Pierre < jp.germain45@...> wrote:

Hello Danny,

Nice to meet you this morning.

Enjoy your northerly sail.

Jean-Pierre Germain, Eleuthera, SM 007
Opua, NZ

On 14 Mar 2019, at 11:15, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS < simms@...> wrote:

Hi Paul. This is the perfect type of repair for a hand moldable epoxy. The one I use is emerkit from my local plumber. There are others available from chandleries  It will adhere to wet surfaces. It is in two parts. Take equal quantities of each and work them thoroughly together and apply

SailWorks very well and lasts well.

Regards

Ce to Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 14 March 2019 at 05:38 Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown < yafohi@...> wrote:

Bill,

That's the one, and yes mine is connected to the bonding system.

I have no experience using epoxy for repairs but was thinking about taking it to a welder to repair the hole - would this in your opinion be a workable solution?

You mention ordering a new part from SAV@... - sorry, don't know who that is.

--
Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98

Re: Amel Martinique Rally Update...ya'll come

karkauai

Hi Bill and all Caribbean Rally Amelians.

We are sorry to tell you that we have to go back home before the Rally and will not be able to attend. We were really looking forward to meeting you all and seeing your beautiful Amels.

Alas, perhaps another time.

Bill, will our pulling out at the last minute like this cost anyone anything? If so, we’d like to reimburse for what ever inconvenience it causes.

Regretfully,
Kent & Iris
Kristy
SM243

Re: Solar Panel Arches

James Cromie <jamescromie@...>

Jose - I asked these same questions of others who have installed various arches on their Super Maramus.  Ultimately, I came to the conclusion that a heavier stainless steel arch was most appropriate for solidly supporting two 315W panels as well as suspending our dinghy from it .  One of the important aspects in my decision was how the arch is secured to the hull structure.
The Emek arch is designed to transfer force at what seem to be the strongest points on the stern.

In addition, my opinion is that the Emek arch is the most attractive looking.. of course I’m biased.  (no offense to others!)

I continue to receive frequent compliments on the arch and the high quality workmanship (including the Newport welder who helped me).  The Welder in Newport, RI stated that he couldn’t fabricate the same arch for anything less than \$15000 most likely .  It seems to be the primary arch offered as a custom design for this boat.

The drawback of ordering the arch from Emek is that shipping internationally is a hassle, and there is a significant amount of work involved in properly fitting the arch perfectly to the hull.  Every boat has very slight variations in geometry, and so the arch will not fit perfectly as though it were fabricated on site.  Indeed, it comes as a kit that requires some limited welding.  To ensure a proper fit, I built up epoxy footings where the arch feet met the hull per the recommendations of others on the forum.

The actual tray that carried the panels was not fabricated to the exact measurements that I sent to Emek.  I was able to rectify the problem without too much difficulty, and Emek followed through in reimbursing me for the additional costs required for that adjustment.

The arch has two cross struts made out of stainless steel pipe that are anchored at the midpoint of the stern just behind the midline removable stanchion.  Some have elected to omit these from the installation, but I find these to be critical in providing absolute lateral rigidity and stability.  In addition, I find that they provide a great handle for boarding the boat or simply grabbing on to something when working at the stern.

The overall weight - with panels - probably around 200 lbs, though I’m not certain.
I have no movement or wobble in my arch - even when the dinghy is suspended, though I do not keep the dinghy there when making any passage.

The cost may be more than the Atlantic Arch, but I am very happy with the Emek arch, and I would do it the same way if I had to do it again.   I will try to post some photos, though it looks essentially the same as others who have posted on the forum.

(I did the installation myself, though hired a welder to weld the 6 joints required for full installation - which cost an additional \$1000).  In all, the total cost for arch, shipment and installation was around \$7000.

Good luck!
James
Soteria SM2K 347
Culebra

On Mar 13, 2019, at 9:29 PM, Jose Venegas via Groups.Io <josegvenegas@...> wrote:

I am in the process of ordering an arch for Ipanema.  After personally seeing the aluminum arch made by Atlantic Towers, from Lulu and Creamy Puff I was very impressed with the quality,  how light they were, and more importantly by the very affordable price.   However,  both owners (Marc and Mark)  mentioned that the arches were somewhat wobbly, but that was corrected to their satisfaction by adding cables or an extra-strut in a corner.  Although I have seen some very nice arches made to order, their cost , I think, is typically 3 to 4 times that of an Atlantic Tower and they seem to be much heavier.
My questions are for those who have installed arches:
0) if they were from Atlantic Towers, were they wobbly?
For this who installed stainless arches:
1) do you have an idea of their weight?
2) how wobbly are they when underway both with and without dink?,
3) did you have to add extra struts or cables to make them stiffer?
4) What was the cost of manufacture and installation?
5) Can you provide a pix of your system?

Greatly appreciate your feedback
Jose
Ipanema SM2K 278
Still freezing in Boston Harbor but hopefully not for too long.

Re: Maramu anchor and chain suggestions

eric freedman <kimberlite@...>

Michael, SY Sioned,

Or any other Amel owner. The chain Buoy looks very interesting.

Has anyone had experience with it?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of James Alton via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2019 3:29 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Maramu anchor and chain suggestions

Tom,

I really like your solution.  It sounds pretty foolproof, just a bit of hands on work if you are using more than 200’ of your chain!  Thanks for the idea, I like this much better than adding the bulkhead.  I am also still considering the 8mm chain idea.  I feel like weight put into the anchor adds more holding power than putting it into the chain.    I am considering both the 85 lbs and the 105 pound Mantus.   The 105lb. Mantus is so wide that I am a little concerned that I might loose a degree or two on the wind from the windage!  (grin)  Glad to hear that your Bruce is treating you so well.  Thanks for all of the thoughtful and helpful input.

James

SV Sueno,  Maramu #220

On Mar 12, 2019, at 2:29 PM, amel46met <onboardaphrodite@...> wrote:

James

I have 300 feet of 3/8” H.T. Chain. I hand spread the first 100 feet and then pile 200 feet on top of that with the windless no problems with the pyramid although I like hearing it fall over as I retrieve I have tried putting a bulkhead forward and putting 100 feet forward of that but just spreading it seems to work fine for the last 20 years.I do have an old fashion Bruce anchor 50 kg it never drags I like it when people say that is an awfully big anchor.

Tom Deasy

S/Y Aphrodite

1983 Maramu # 125

On Mar 12, 2019, at 1:10 PM, "amel@..." <amel@...> wrote:

Hi James,

I _think_ there should be enough space in the locker to install such a partial bulkhead. But remember that the locker hatch is not that big. So I imagine it will be a pain to both install the bulkhead and to put the first 20 m there each time you have used them. That said it might still be a feasible idea.

There are also other possible technical solutions that might or might not work like:
https://www.force4.co.uk/force-4-chain-boy.html
and
https://www.sailmagazine.com/cruising/anti-chain-pyramid-rod
So far I didn't try either of it.

Using 8mm chain would probably eliminate the problem alltogether but it comes with a big caveat:

As I pointed out earlier, with the smaller chain you also loose a lot of weight. While this is a desirable effect for the boat trim (more for light deplacement boats than for an Amel), it is abolutely undesirable when the chain is NOT in the locker but in the water.

10m of 10mm chain weigh about 23 kg while 10m of 8mm chain weigh only 13kg. For an anchor chain weight equals to damping. A lighter chain will come stiff like a rod much earlier than a heavier chain when swell and wind increases. As soon as the chain is solid stiff the damping and force absorption cease to exist and the full force of wind gusts and swell will take effect on your anchor thus increasing the danger for it to break out considerably.
This not so much a problem in light conditions, but in heavy weather it can make a big difference.

I consired switching to a 8mm Chrome Duplex chain myself but gave up on that thought when I realized the consequences.

Michael, SY Sioned, Maramu #148

Re: Solar Panel Arches

Craig Briggs

Jose,
I personally, with the owners, did two installations of the Atlantic arch. The key is in pre-tensioning the arch by cutting the upper cross members long-ish so the legs are wider than their mounts. You then pull them together when you put them in place using ratchet straps or the like. The instructions from Atlantic Tower have been updated to emphasize this.

The last one was Kent's and I'm sure he can chime in on wobbly-ness.  It was very stable when we finished the job.
I'd recommend you do the job yourself so you get it right - I don't think there are any "professional" Atlantic Arch Installers (except me :-)

Cheers, Craig

Re: Solar Panel Arches

Ian Townsend

We have the Atlantic Towers arch and are very pleased with the unit. We installed a 1 1/4" stainless corner strut from the aftmost leg of the arch and down to the deck in order to minimize the lateral motion. After four years and a several thousand miles, we believe it was the right thing to do. I will add a picture to the forum tomorrow.

Ian & Margaret
S/V Loca Lola II
SM153
Exumas, Bahamas

On Mar 13, 2019, at 9:29 PM, Jose Venegas via Groups.Io <josegvenegas@...> wrote:

I am in the process of ordering an arch for Ipanema.  After personally seeing the aluminum arch made by Atlantic Towers, from Lulu and Creamy Puff I was very impressed with the quality,  how light they were, and more importantly by the very affordable price.   However,  both owners (Marc and Mark)  mentioned that the arches were somewhat wobbly, but that was corrected to their satisfaction by adding cables or an extra-strut in a corner.  Although I have seen some very nice arches made to order, their cost , I think, is typically 3 to 4 times that of an Atlantic Tower and they seem to be much heavier.
My questions are for those who have installed arches:
0) if they were from Atlantic Towers, were they wobbly?
For this who installed stainless arches:
1) do you have an idea of their weight?
2) how wobbly are they when underway both with and without dink?,
3) did you have to add extra struts or cables to make them stiffer?
4) What was the cost of manufacture and installation?
5) Can you provide a pix of your system?

Greatly appreciate your feedback
Jose
Ipanema SM2K 278
Still freezing in Boston Harbor but hopefully not for too long.

Solar Panel Arches

Jose Venegas

I am in the process of ordering an arch for Ipanema.  After personally seeing the aluminum arch made by Atlantic Towers, from Lulu and Creamy Puff I was very impressed with the quality,  how light they were, and more importantly by the very affordable price.   However,  both owners (Marc and Mark)  mentioned that the arches were somewhat wobbly, but that was corrected to their satisfaction by adding cables or an extra-strut in a corner.  Although I have seen some very nice arches made to order, their cost , I think, is typically 3 to 4 times that of an Atlantic Tower and they seem to be much heavier.
My questions are for those who have installed arches:
0) if they were from Atlantic Towers, were they wobbly?
For this who installed stainless arches:
1) do you have an idea of their weight?
2) how wobbly are they when underway both with and without dink?,
3) did you have to add extra struts or cables to make them stiffer?
4) What was the cost of manufacture and installation?
5) Can you provide a pix of your system?

Greatly appreciate your feedback
Jose
Ipanema SM2K 278
Still freezing in Boston Harbor but hopefully not for too long.

Re: Opua meeting.

Germain Jean-Pierre

Hi Danny,

Put some beer in your fridge

:-)

On 14 Mar 2019, at 11:37, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...> wrote:

Good to see you too JP. Hope you make it to mill bay. The club there does a great dinner Friday nights, and and we live there

Regards

Danny

On 14 March 2019 at 11:26 Germain Jean-Pierre <jp.germain45@...> wrote:

Hello Danny,

Nice to meet you this morning.

Enjoy your northerly sail.

Jean-Pierre Germain, Eleuthera, SM 007
Opua, NZ

On 14 Mar 2019, at 11:15, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS < simms@...> wrote:

Hi Paul. This is the perfect type of repair for a hand moldable epoxy. The one I use is emerkit from my local plumber. There are others available from chandleries  It will adhere to wet surfaces. It is in two parts. Take equal quantities of each and work them thoroughly together and apply

SailWorks very well and lasts well.

Regards

Ce to Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 14 March 2019 at 05:38 Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown < yafohi@...> wrote:

Bill,

That's the one, and yes mine is connected to the bonding system.

I have no experience using epoxy for repairs but was thinking about taking it to a welder to repair the hole - would this in your opinion be a workable solution?

You mention ordering a new part from SAV@... - sorry, don't know who that is.

--
Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98

Opua meeting.

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS

Good to see you too JP. Hope you make it to mill bay. The club there does a great dinner Friday nights, and and we live there

Regards

Danny

On 14 March 2019 at 11:26 Germain Jean-Pierre <jp.germain45@...> wrote:

Hello Danny,

Nice to meet you this morning.

Enjoy your northerly sail.

Jean-Pierre Germain, Eleuthera, SM 007
Opua, NZ

On 14 Mar 2019, at 11:15, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS < simms@...> wrote:

Hi Paul. This is the perfect type of repair for a hand moldable epoxy. The one I use is emerkit from my local plumber. There are others available from chandleries  It will adhere to wet surfaces. It is in two parts. Take equal quantities of each and work them thoroughly together and apply

SailWorks very well and lasts well.

Regards

Ce to Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 14 March 2019 at 05:38 Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown < yafohi@...> wrote:

Bill,

That's the one, and yes mine is connected to the bonding system.

I have no experience using epoxy for repairs but was thinking about taking it to a welder to repair the hole - would this in your opinion be a workable solution?

You mention ordering a new part from SAV@... - sorry, don't know who that is.

--
Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98

Re: Discharge manifold repair/replacement

Germain Jean-Pierre

Hello Danny,

Nice to meet you this morning.

Enjoy your northerly sail.

Jean-Pierre Germain, Eleuthera, SM 007
Opua, NZ

On 14 Mar 2019, at 11:15, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...> wrote:

Hi Paul. This is the perfect type of repair for a hand moldable epoxy. The one I use is emerkit from my local plumber. There are others available from chandleries  It will adhere to wet surfaces. It is in two parts. Take equal quantities of each and work them thoroughly together and apply

SailWorks very well and lasts well.

Regards

Ce to Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 14 March 2019 at 05:38 Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown <yafohi@...> wrote:

Bill,

That's the one, and yes mine is connected to the bonding system.

I have no experience using epoxy for repairs but was thinking about taking it to a welder to repair the hole - would this in your opinion be a workable solution?

You mention ordering a new part from SAV@... - sorry, don't know who that is.

--
Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98

Re: Discharge manifold repair/replacement

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS

Hi Paul. This is the perfect type of repair for a hand moldable epoxy. The one I use is emerkit from my local plumber. There are others available from chandleries  It will adhere to wet surfaces. It is in two parts. Take equal quantities of each and work them thoroughly together and apply

Works very well and lasts well.

Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 14 March 2019 at 05:38 Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown <yafohi@...> wrote:

Bill,

That's the one, and yes mine is connected to the bonding system.

I have no experience using epoxy for repairs but was thinking about taking it to a welder to repair the hole - would this in your opinion be a workable solution?

You mention ordering a new part from SAV@... - sorry, don't know who that is.

--
Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98

Re: Gross tonnage on SM

Patrick McAneny

I should have mentioned that I knew tonnage was not the weight of the boat ,but a volume measurement . Still it seemed high and apparently that is the case and I will have it changed. Thanks for the correct numbers.
Pat
SM Shenanigans

Re: Amel Martinique Rally Update...ya'll come

Peter,

I have you confirmed. Thanks, you will enjoy it.

Best,

Bill Rouse
720 Winnie St.
Galveston, Texas 77550
832-380-4970

On Wed, Mar 13, 2019 at 3:41 PM Peter godwin via Groups.Io <pierre467=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi Bill
Best
Peter Godwin

On 14 Feb 2019, at 00:02, Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:

As of today we have 12 confirmed, 5 possible for a total of 17 confirmed and possible...we are still short of the goal of 20 confirmed
 Confirmed 12 P Possible 5 U Unknown 1 Confirmed & Possible 17

More information on the website at: https://theamelschool.blogspot.com/p/amel-eastern-caribbean-rally-2019.html
--

Best,

Bill Rouse

720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970

Re: Amel Martinique Rally Update...ya'll come

pierre467@...

Hi Bill
Best
Peter Godwin

On 14 Feb 2019, at 00:02, Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:

As of today we have 12 confirmed, 5 possible for a total of 17 confirmed and possible...we are still short of the goal of 20 confirmed
 Confirmed 12 P Possible 5 U Unknown 1 Confirmed & Possible 17

More information on the website at: https://theamelschool.blogspot.com/p/amel-eastern-caribbean-rally-2019.html
--

Best,

Bill Rouse

720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970

Re: Gross tonnage on SM

Heinz,

That is the weight of the vessel, not the GT (Gross Tonnage) or NT Net Tonnage.

Unfortunately, most countries use GT and NT on recreational vessel registration, confusing most of us.

Best,

Bill Rouse
720 Winnie St.
Galveston, Texas 77550
832-380-4970

On Wed, Mar 13, 2019 at 3:24 PM heinz@... <heinz@...> wrote:

My sm2000 says 14t netto 16t groß
Fair Winds
Heinz sm2000 292

> Am 13.03.2019 um 11:40 schrieb Ian <parkianj@...>:
>
> Craig
> My Santorin has a big brass plate that says net tonnage is 15 and 1/4 and gross tonnage is 18+. But the spelling is tons.
> I know it refers to capacity, but I don’t know if there is a difference in where it was measured.
> In metric tonnes the Santorin is 10 tonnes.
> I give up !
> Incidentally my Part 1 registration has the boat length at 12.3 metres ( rather than the 14 that it is). It has saved me money several times when a marina has just asked for my registration certificate!
>
> Ian
>
> Ocean Hobo
>
>
>

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