Date   

locked Re: Paying for our group through Advertising

Duncan Hagemeyer
 

I'm having a tough time learning how to follow and reply to the conversation.  This follow-up is directed to Ian's comment.  He has a great point on having a surveyor that could be  "certified" as an Amel expert that is located over in Europe and here in the western hemisphere.  Again I am not suggesting that this program should be the judge and jury of what any particular boat is worth.  All surveys are based on many factors.  

I will offer this though...some might call it a criticism.  For years I have sort of followed the exchanges on the Amel site.  It occurred to me that this site, if viewed by a prospective buyer - would come away thinking that something is always going wrong with the Amel boats.  Fix this, repair that, and banter about price and who can be trusted to fix it.  Oliver in Guadeloupe did work for me and I found him polite, competent and did what he said he would do.  I should have rewarded him with a Kudo Mon...good job on the web.  I ran into others that were just in it for the buck and shove you off the dock thinking they will not see you again.  I would suggest that the site include more of the good days and good experiences we have had and reward our group with some positive thought that make others want to be an Amel owner..  I personally think the Caribbean has changed and those that are competent and want to earn the right to service our Amel's should also have our site as a forum for selling their services.  Advertising is worthless unless the vendor does more than pay a fee that maintains our website.  It's worse than worthless it cost a boat owner money if they go to the wrong vendor and get screwed.  OK....unless I have an epiphany I'm done.  I do hope that the Amel'ians' grow and prosper and I hope that one day I make one last sail around the Caribbean.  Fair winds to all of you. 

On Thu, Mar 21, 2019 at 1:40 AM SY STELLA <stella@...> wrote:
Actually I just noticed that Gary W has put this idea more eloquently and comprehensively than I.
i agree with Gary.
Dean
SY STELLA
A54-154



--
Duncan Hagemeyer
24 Rock Creek Road
Emigrant, MT  59027

1-615-478-6006

1-406-848-9866  Ashling Ranch


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Genoa sheet track plugs

Mike Ondra
 

Hi Eric,

We are trying an alternative to the plastic plugs that deteriorate with sunlight.

After cleaning out the decomposed plugs and dust, we filled the hole with white silicone. We filled considerably higher than the surface of the track, and after it cured a few days cut off the silicone with a razor flush with the top of the track. It’s a pretty neat job, and we’ll see how it last.

Mike Ondra,

Aletes SM#240

Returning from St. Augustine to Rock Hall, MD mid-April

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of eric freedman
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2019 9:58 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] [Amel Yacht Owners] Genoa sheet cars

 

Hi Woody,

Where did you get the plastic plugs for the track. Amel did not have any.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Alan "Woody" Wood
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2019 9:59 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] [Amel Yacht Owners] Genoa sheet cars

 

Hi Danny

We had a double whammy in that there was gel coat cracking under the track where (we think) the backing plate had expanded AND the car inserts had disintegrated and needed replacing. We did it as part of a fit out in Tunisia.. even with an impact driver we still couldn't get the whole track off but managed to free the track enough to slide the cars off.
Heres the link to the video, time stamped at the track repair.. hope it helps
https://youtu.be/6nHe3zU--rU?t=511

Woody
SM189


Re: Oil amount for MD22 / Prima M50

Gary Wells
 

Ah, Craig you are exactly right.  I actually have a TMD 22.  Different animal. 

Gary


locked Re: Paying for our group through Advertising

Dean Gillies
 

Actually I just noticed that Gary W has put this idea more eloquently and comprehensively than I.
i agree with Gary.
Dean
SY STELLA
A54-154


locked Re: Paying for our group through Advertising

Dean Gillies
 

Interesting thread. 
Personally, I do not like the idea of advertising by a sponsor.  With sponsorship, particularly narrow sponsorship, comes the expectation of the sponsor (sooner or later), which is not necessarily unmanageable, but inevitably causes strife.

Maybe the group could consider a more broadly based revenue stream such as a ‘directory’, where a range of individual suppliers can be listed in return for a small fee, which cumulatively pays the groups.io site fees.  This model is possibly less likely to suffer from the demands of a single large sponsor, may be more robust in terms of cash-flow  and would possibly be more useful to owners.

Bill, are we considering the implementation of this revenue generation idea immediately? 

Dean
SY STELLA 
A54-154



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Genoa sheet cars

eric freedman
 

I forgot to thank you for a very good video.

Thank You,

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of eric freedman
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2019 9:58 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] [Amel Yacht Owners] Genoa sheet cars

 

Hi Woody,

Where did you get the plastic plugs for the track. Amel did not have any.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Alan "Woody" Wood
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2019 9:59 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] [Amel Yacht Owners] Genoa sheet cars

 

Hi Danny

We had a double whammy in that there was gel coat cracking under the track where (we think) the backing plate had expanded AND the car inserts had disintegrated and needed replacing. We did it as part of a fit out in Tunisia.. even with an impact driver we still couldn't get the whole track off but managed to free the track enough to slide the cars off.
Heres the link to the video, time stamped at the track repair.. hope it helps
https://youtu.be/6nHe3zU--rU?t=511

Woody
SM189


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Genoa sheet cars

eric freedman
 

Hi Woody,

Where did you get the plastic plugs for the track. Amel did not have any.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Alan "Woody" Wood
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2019 9:59 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] [Amel Yacht Owners] Genoa sheet cars

 

Hi Danny

We had a double whammy in that there was gel coat cracking under the track where (we think) the backing plate had expanded AND the car inserts had disintegrated and needed replacing. We did it as part of a fit out in Tunisia.. even with an impact driver we still couldn't get the whole track off but managed to free the track enough to slide the cars off.
Heres the link to the video, time stamped at the track repair.. hope it helps
https://youtu.be/6nHe3zU--rU?t=511

Woody
SM189


Navionics chart plotter chips --Discontinued??

eric freedman
 

I heard from a friend that Navionics is discontinuing the compact flash cards for many chart plotters.

Have anyone heard this?

If so what can be done to upgrade the chart chips or get new ones?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 


Dessalator AC motor

Alan Leslie
 
Edited

Does anyone know the brand and model of the 220V AC motor fitted to the Dessalator DUO 60 watermaker ?
Thanks
Alan
Elyse SM437


locked Re: Paying for our group through Advertising

Nicolas Klene
 

Hi Duncan
I like your idea very much !
I hope to be a future Amelian soon , I am actively looking for a boat, a Super Maramu, unfortunately not a 54 !
It is difficult to assess the price of a boat , not knowing how she has been looked after, and brokers have been for similar age boats , offering wildly different prices !!
The services of a good trustworthy surveyor are essential , but if the boat was referenced in the “ Amel community” it could be a help , where buyers like me could ask questions and find answers before selecting which boat the surveyor will inspect  !


Re: Oil amount for MD22 / Prima M50

Craig Briggs
 

Hi Gary,
The Perkins/Volvo equivalents are always confusing to me, but I thought the Perkins Prima M50, which Amel fit on some Santorins (including mine) was equivalent to the Volvo MD22, both of which rated 50 hp at 3000 rpm That's the MD22 I think Herb has on his Santorin. 

I had thought that Amel used the Perkins Prima M80 (a turbo M50) on (some of) the SM's for 80 hp and also the Volvo TDM22A turbo rated at 79hp.  There was also a Perkins Prima M60 at 60hp and a Volvo MD22 and MD22A rated at 59 hp at 4000 rpm (vs. 50hp at 3000).  Don't know if Amel used those.

Anyway, my M50 does not have an oil cooling section in the end of the heat exchanger, nor any oil hoses going to the heat exchanger, and I suspect Herb's is like that. All oil cooling is accomplished as the oil circulates inside of the block. My M50 also does not cool the ATF transmission oil.

Is your MD22 perhaps the 60hp version (also naturally aspirated), which could explain the oil cooler you describe? It still seems small for a SM, or is it the 79 hp TMD turbo?

Cheers, Craig


Re: Engine room lining on Amel 54

Theo s/v Paloma
 

Bill,

The picture is of Paloma getting built. One more month till handover.

Theo.
s/v Paloma
A50 #18


locked Re: Paying for our group through Advertising

Duncan Hagemeyer
 

Thanks,  but I should have added "totally open to discussion....and other ideas".  


On Wed, Mar 20, 2019 at 7:31 AM ngtnewington Newington via Groups.Io <ngtnewington=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
I think Duncan’s idea has a lot of merit.

Nick

Amelia (Amel 54-019)
On 20 Mar 2019, at 13:26, Duncan Hagemeyer <wdhagemeyer@...> wrote:

I have a suggestion.  I own hull #9 Amel 54.  I have not bee very active over the years in this group as my boat is very lightly used.  Now health issues have me considering selling her.  I have seen the passion from the Ameld'ians' and their love for this great brand.  Why not create a listing service for boats that are on the market.  I'm not talking about cutting out broker/dealers per se.  They can provide a great service during the sales transaction process.  But there is no group that will ever sell the Amel brand better than the owners of Amel boats.  All boats eventually get sold and all new buyers need to have a place where they can get great - honest - knowledgeable advice on all the issues related to used Amel yachts.  I would gladly list a boat with a broker with the stipulation that a small percent goes t the Amel Owners Group.  Frankly, I'd rather pay another owner a fee if they matched up my boat with a new owner.  Another bit of advice....the Amel is a unique boat and there really does need to be an unbiased surveyor that can assess an Amel that is offered for sale.  Since  I was diagnosed with bladder cancer I have had 2 surveys done and the valuation was over 20% variation.  Some of the fees collected by the Amel Owners Group could be used to fund a qualified surveyor.  As a seller I would love to have this person assess my boat and advice what needs to be done to bring the boat to a standard that the next owner knows precisely what they are buying and why they need to pay a price.  

Duncan Hagemeyer
Dreamtime II
Antigua



On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 9:46 AM Teun BAAS <teun@...> wrote:

Agree with below.

 

I also would have no problem chipping in but that is now and maybe a only group of us willing to do so.

We don’t know what happens 5 or 10 years down the road; although Bill paid for the next 5 years 😊.

 

As far as the revenue: I leave that up to the guys now managing the site. They are capable enough; no need for me to micromanage in addition to managing/maintaining my boat.

 

Best Regards Teun

SV AMELIT A54 #128

NOUMEA NEW CALEDONIA

 

March 19, 2019 08:44:48

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2019 08:12
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Paying for our group through Advertising

 

I think most you that answer NO are answering NO to advertising.

 

That is not the POLL.

 

The Poll is advertising on a banner at the top of the help page (Wiki) only and that revenue going to the cost of groups.io.

 

Best,

 

Bill Rouse

720 Winnie St.

Galveston, Texas 77550

832-380-4970

 

 

On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 10:09 AM CW Bill Rouse via Groups.Io <brouse=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

I tried to write the Poll as something that would be general and the vote would be to do it or not, rather than a vote on which supplier should be allowed.

 

The group needs runway and stability rather than pitching in here by one or more members.

 

I suggested the Wiki because you only see that page when you click on it for help.

 

 

Best,

 

Bill Rouse

720 Winnie St.

Galveston, Texas 77550

832-380-4970

 

 

On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 9:39 AM Rink De Haan <rinkdehaan@...> wrote:

I agree with Craig. Willing to pay to keep the site running.

 

Cheers 

Rink de Haan

SM2k #330

Greece

 

 


Van: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io namens Craig Briggs via Groups.Io <sangaris=aol.com@groups.io>
Verzonden: dinsdag, maart 19, 2019 3:31 PM
Aan: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Onderwerp: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Paying for our group through Advertising 

 

Hi Bill,
I voted "no", only because "ambivalent" was not a choice, but would appreciate a bit more info.  
Seems a pretty limited audience for advertising, albeit possibly an audience that is ripe-for-pickin' and therefore attractive to the advertiser. I do wonder about the ongoing value, however, especially after a few months of the same vendor splashing out on a big piece of the website page - seems it could quickly become "ho-hum" and then annoying. 
How much are we talking - I'd be happy to chip in to keep the site clean, and I suspect others would, too. 
Who is the advertiser (not sure that needs to be confidential, but you may be).
Craig Briggs SN68 SANGARIS 





-- 
Duncan Hagemeyer
24 Rock Creek Road
Emigrant, MT  59027

1-615-478-6006

1-406-848-9866  Ashling Ranch



--
Duncan Hagemeyer
24 Rock Creek Road
Emigrant, MT  59027

1-615-478-6006

1-406-848-9866  Ashling Ranch


Re: Bow locker floors/hawse pipe replacement project recap

Miles
 

In the meantime, it is possible to delay or prevent having to replace the floors by minimizing  the amount of mold growing on the bottom of the floors.

I do two things.

1, I always open the water-tight door between the front cabin and the chain locker when I am in a marina.  This lets air circulate in the chain locker.

2, Once or sometimes twice a year, I run an ozone generator in the chain locker.  A small but powerful ozone generator costs about $80 as I recall.  It not only kills mold and mildew, it oxidizes rubber—causing it to age quickly.  Be careful where and how long you run it if you get one.   The ozone has a short half-life so you don’t have to  stay away long if you use it inside the boat. 

 

Regards,

 

Miles   S/Y Ladybug, sm216 Le Marin, Martinique


Re: Updated Event: Amel Yacht Owners Rally - Martinique April 7 - April 13 - Sunday, 7 April 2019 #cal-invite

Gary Wells
 

Adagio will be in Leverick Bay, North Sound, Virgin Gorda BVIs from 16th March to 31st March and would of course welcome any other Amel owners for meet-n-greet and maybe a lunch at Hog Heaven!

Gary W.
SM #209, Adagio
Tortola, BVI


Re: Oil amount for MD22 / Prima M50

Gary Wells
 

If your MD22 setup is the same as mine, the heat exchanger is a long assembly runninh the length of the starboard side of the motor.  
Most of the heat exchanger is for cooling water, but the aft-most 6 inches is an oil cooler.  
While I'm not totally positive, I do believe a good amount of oil will stay residual in that oil cooler.  It would require disconnecting and bleeding a hose (or both hoses) circulating the oil through that cooler to get everything out.

Of course, your mileage may vary and I just know about my particular setup :)

Gary W.
SM #209, Adagio
Tortola, BVI


Re: sailing from Martinique to Newport

Gary Wells
 

Hi Miles,

First, congrats on your amazing experience!

Second, hope to meet you in April for the Amel Rally. 

Third, if you'd like I can send you some contact information on crew members that I have had sail with me in the past. If it's ok, I will solicit them for interest first.

Fourth(ly), you could put your opportunity up on www.oceancrewlink.com and you'll get responses from potential crew that have paid to place their resumes on the site.  I've used that site to find crew for three crossings and have had great luck with good people each time.  

Hope to meet you soon.

Gary W.
SM#209, Adagio
Tortola, BVI


locked Re: Paying for our group through Advertising

Gary Wells
 

I have slept on this for a couple of days but I find myself stuck and on the idea that in a true sense, having advertisers paying for the expenses of the site is actually "sponsorship" .. and, I am comfortable with that idea because the groups principals have control over how the advertising comes in. 

I see no real reason that relations can't or shouldn't be built with companies that can offer good products and services to our owners.  We would just have to be very mindful that we also need to support Amel in order keep our product support intact.

I'd see it as a growth opportunity for both our group and perhaps for vendors looking to offer semi-custom parts and services that Amel may not offer any more.  I'm also thinking of how things may develop in the long run with things like discounted services, marina fees, etc .

I would not be averse to a "click here to see our sponsors", even on the home page, and a section in the wiki with what we would consider "approved" vendors and descriptions of their scope of services, lists of available parts and reviews from group member customers. 

I echo the sentiment that invasive ads are not welcome and I'll gladly pay up to keep that kind of stuff away.  But being able to search for vendors for specific needs, and whom our members have experience with, seems like a sound idea to me. 

Gary W.
SM #209, Adagio
Tortola, BVI


Re: Dual Pre Filters for Fuel

Ryan Meador
 

Our boat's original owner installed a dual filter long ago, a Racor 75500MAX. It gives me a lot of peace of mind. I'm pretty sure it never gave him any trouble and it hasn't given us any either. It's mounted only a bit higher than the original filter, slightly above and to the right (inboard) of it.

Ryan and Kelly
SM 233 Iteration
En route to Spanish Wells, Bahamas


On Tue, Mar 19, 2019, 4:45 PM Germain Jean-Pierre <jp.germain45@...> wrote:
Hi Alan,

Ooops. You are correct.  In our case, we run both the genset and the Volvo on one filter.  I change over whenever I note grunge or when changing the little element filter at the top.

Mounted on a SS plate installed on the stbd side of the engine bearer… lined up to the aft portion of the gearbox.

Works very well.

Jean-Pierre Germain, ELEUTHERA, SM007



On 20 Mar 2019, at 02:11, Alan Woody Wood <woody@...> wrote:

On Mon, Mar 18, 2019 at 08:07 PM, Germain Jean-Pierre wrote:
Jean-Pierre, did you mean the 75/500?


locked Re: Paying for our group through Advertising

 

When we set up the Group on Groups.io, we had the option to create what they call a Subgroup. We chose to create a sub-group called YachtsForSale. If you are looking at our homepage for Amel Yacht Owners Group click on Subgroups on the left side to go to YachtsForSale, or you will also notice a link for YachtsForSale in the Description of Amel Yacht Owners Group.

Owners wanting to sell their Amel can post a "for sale notice" once every 60 days on our subgroup, YachtsForSale. Buyers searching for an Amel can post their search on YachtsForSale once every 60 days.

We currently have had 2 listings and currently have 1 listing at https://amelyachtowners.groups.io/g/yachtforsale/topics 

Any member of Amel Yacht Owners Group can post in YachtsForSale by either going to the Amel Yacht Owners Group and clicking on Subgroups, or by simply sending an email to yachtforsale@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io

Any member of Amel Yacht Owners Group can join the subgroup YachtsForSale  by either going to the Amel Yacht Owners Group and clicking on Subgroups and follow instructions, or by simply sending an email to yachtforsale+subscribe@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io. Any you can unsubscribe to the Subgroup by sending an email toyachtforsale+unsubscribe@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io

Regarding monetizing the YachtsForSale listings, there is not any method currently built into Groups.io to do this.

Best,

Bill Rouse
720 Winnie St.
Galveston, Texas 77550
832-380-4970



On Wed, Mar 20, 2019 at 8:43 AM Peter Forbes <ppsforbes@...> wrote:
I rather agree and Carango is currently for sale with Amel la Rochelle.


Peter Forbes
0044 7836 209730
Carango  Sailing Ketch
Amel 54 #035
In La Rochelle

On 20 Mar 2019, at 13:30, ngtnewington Newington via Groups.Io <ngtnewington@...> wrote:

I think Duncan’s idea has a lot of merit.

Nick

Amelia (Amel 54-019)
On 20 Mar 2019, at 13:26, Duncan Hagemeyer <wdhagemeyer@...> wrote:

I have a suggestion.  I own hull #9 Amel 54.  I have not bee very active over the years in this group as my boat is very lightly used.  Now health issues have me considering selling her.  I have seen the passion from the Ameld'ians' and their love for this great brand.  Why not create a listing service for boats that are on the market.  I'm not talking about cutting out broker/dealers per se.  They can provide a great service during the sales transaction process.  But there is no group that will ever sell the Amel brand better than the owners of Amel boats.  All boats eventually get sold and all new buyers need to have a place where they can get great - honest - knowledgeable advice on all the issues related to used Amel yachts.  I would gladly list a boat with a broker with the stipulation that a small percent goes t the Amel Owners Group.  Frankly, I'd rather pay another owner a fee if they matched up my boat with a new owner.  Another bit of advice....the Amel is a unique boat and there really does need to be an unbiased surveyor that can assess an Amel that is offered for sale.  Since  I was diagnosed with bladder cancer I have had 2 surveys done and the valuation was over 20% variation.  Some of the fees collected by the Amel Owners Group could be used to fund a qualified surveyor.  As a seller I would love to have this person assess my boat and advice what needs to be done to bring the boat to a standard that the next owner knows precisely what they are buying and why they need to pay a price.  

Duncan Hagemeyer
Dreamtime II
Antigua



On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 9:46 AM Teun BAAS <teun@...> wrote:

Agree with below.

 

I also would have no problem chipping in but that is now and maybe a only group of us willing to do so.

We don’t know what happens 5 or 10 years down the road; although Bill paid for the next 5 years 😊.

 

As far as the revenue: I leave that up to the guys now managing the site. They are capable enough; no need for me to micromanage in addition to managing/maintaining my boat.

 

Best Regards Teun

SV AMELIT A54 #128

NOUMEA NEW CALEDONIA

 

March 19, 2019 08:44:48

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2019 08:12
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Paying for our group through Advertising

 

I think most you that answer NO are answering NO to advertising.

 

That is not the POLL.

 

The Poll is advertising on a banner at the top of the help page (Wiki) only and that revenue going to the cost of groups.io.

 

Best,

 

Bill Rouse

720 Winnie St.

Galveston, Texas 77550

832-380-4970

 

 

On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 10:09 AM CW Bill Rouse via Groups.Io <brouse=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

I tried to write the Poll as something that would be general and the vote would be to do it or not, rather than a vote on which supplier should be allowed.

 

The group needs runway and stability rather than pitching in here by one or more members.

 

I suggested the Wiki because you only see that page when you click on it for help.

 

 

Best,

 

Bill Rouse

720 Winnie St.

Galveston, Texas 77550

832-380-4970

 

 

On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 9:39 AM Rink De Haan <rinkdehaan@...> wrote:

I agree with Craig. Willing to pay to keep the site running.

 

Cheers 

Rink de Haan

SM2k #330

Greece

 

 


Van: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io namens Craig Briggs via Groups.Io <sangaris=aol.com@groups.io>
Verzonden: dinsdag, maart 19, 2019 3:31 PM
Aan: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Onderwerp: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Paying for our group through Advertising 

 

Hi Bill,
I voted "no", only because "ambivalent" was not a choice, but would appreciate a bit more info.  
Seems a pretty limited audience for advertising, albeit possibly an audience that is ripe-for-pickin' and therefore attractive to the advertiser. I do wonder about the ongoing value, however, especially after a few months of the same vendor splashing out on a big piece of the website page - seems it could quickly become "ho-hum" and then annoying. 
How much are we talking - I'd be happy to chip in to keep the site clean, and I suspect others would, too. 
Who is the advertiser (not sure that needs to be confidential, but you may be).
Craig Briggs SN68 SANGARIS 





-- 
Duncan Hagemeyer
24 Rock Creek Road
Emigrant, MT  59027

1-615-478-6006

1-406-848-9866  Ashling Ranch