Hi there Gary,

I sail an old timer 'Maramu' & 2 years ago did some maintenance on the power & signal cables running to the top of the mast, to find that whatever the strength of the leader lines they got tangled up Inside the PVC tube which keeps them from getting tangled with the halyards.

Reason found after days of running a camera isnide teh tube, Amel did run leader line with foam rings at regular interval to soften the noise of cable Inside the PVC Duct; After repeated replacement of cables & lines Inside the duct, the foam balls got tangled, twisted & built up a firm plug, which when pushed or pulled squashes firmly & builds up a very compact plug. Had to drill out bits & pieces on the mizzen, removing the rivets which held the PVC duct in place inside the mast. 

I do not know if this way of leading lines ws kept for the SM but Always Worth a look-see to make sure that this is not the case ?

Once drilled out, passed all lines without a Hitch & can now replace power & signal cables without a problem.

I have pictures of the culprits & the drilling therafter if interested

fair winds

christian alby - Désirade VIII - Maramu 116 - now in Canet

Le ‎samedi‎ ‎20‎ ‎avril‎ ‎2019‎ ‎19‎:‎21‎:‎27‎ ‎AST, Stephen Hancock via Groups.Io <sammie.whammie=yahoo.com@groups.io> a écrit :

It is probably better to use an electrical lubricant to pull the wires. Less corrosive and much more slick.

On Apr 20, 2019, at 6:55 PM, eric freedman <kimberlite@...> wrote:

Hi Gary,

The wires in the Mizzen seem to get wrapped around each other.

Upon inspection a few years ago I noticed that all the pull lines were in bad shape so I replaced them with dyneema. It is really cheap on EBay.

 

I am sure you have already tried this , however in case you did not did you try dropping a length of chain down the mast  tied to a piece of thin dyneema?

 

If that doesn’t work , as a last resort, I would un-splice the radar scanner cable . Then I would use a strong messenger line attached to it for

re-installation. Then I would  remove the scanner cable. Just as a security backup also solder a piece of single strand 12 gauge wire to the end of the radar cable in case your pull rope breaks or disconnects. I would also cut a few wires off the splice to make the entry smaller.

With the radar cable removed I think you will have room to pull the new cables. I had to replace the scanner cable and it was a bit of a project getting it to turn around the separator at the base of the mast. I use dishwashing soap when puling cables. I first pulled it from the hole in the side of the mizzen and then dropped it down into the aft head.

 

If possible I would also consider trying to make the hole that separates the two parts of the mast at its base larger..

 

Good news is that the new radar scanner by Raymarine is wireless if you want to change out your  chartplotter.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gary Wells
Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2019 1:01 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Mizzen Mast Access

 

OK, I am at an impasse with my mizzen mast.  We haven't quite gotten to the arbitration stage yet, but we have a situation of a stubborn lack of cooperation. 

My trusty wind generator threw a blade a couple of months ago.  Since it is a gen 1 Air-X (you know the one .. you can hear it several islands away!) I decided to have mercy on all my anchorage-mates and upgrade the generator to a quieter, more happy-hour-inducing model.  The mount-up was simple enough; actually things fit together quite well with only a half-millimeter or so difference here and there requiring a bit of sanding and a Dremel.  Then, it all fell apart ..  from the top.

The old Air-X was a self-regulated provider of 24VDC from the top of the mizzen straight through to the battery switch (via the ammeter and shutoff/idle switch) and it required only two wires (plus an 'earth' to the mast).  .

The new generator is a three-phase AC machine with a remote controller/convertor/regulator and it requires a three-wire drop to the box. 

Now 2x10Ga wire managed (barely) to fit down the mast, but the 3x10 won't.  During the process of learning this, the technicians lost and then removed the original wire, then they tried pulling it by connecting it to a no-longer-in-use small coaxial cable, and that connection parted, and finally they used the remaining messenger line .. and broke it.

Normally, it should not be hard to drop a new messenger, but hey have tried for 2 days and used several methods to no avail. There simply must be something blocking a passageway somewhere that they can't fish their way through. 

 

I'm  hoping someone might have a secret-handshake trick up their sleeve before we go to the next step; which is either to drill an access hole in the front of the mast and use the large forward channel (I hope it goes all the way without obstruction) or else we may have to unstep her and get it done that way .. although even that isn't a sure bet, I guess. 

This is a genuine "oh, it should take about 4 hours" job that has turned into 3 days of frustration for us as well as the technicians. 

 

We are in Martinique, so I am presuming that when they say they are 'out of options' they truly are. I know they have consulted with other experts around here so I don't feel like I am working with un-knowledgeable technicians.  BUT ..  there is a vast amount of knowledge here so I am hoping to garner a couple of options/ideas.

We definitely don't want to drill a second access hole in the top (cap) plate on the mizzen ...  that could be a structural issue.  I personally don;' want to drill through to the front of the mast, even thought this is a pretty good option, because even if the wire does come all the way down, there may be no way to silence it from banging around inside the larger passageway. 

Anyway, any suggestions will be very welcomed and thoroughly discussed. 

Thanks!!

 

Gary W

SM209 "Adagio"

Le Marin, Marinique

 

Hi Thomas. If the dolphin is still available I would go with them. I replaced mine 5 or 6 years ago and found the company very good and the chargers work well.

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 28 April 2019 at 19:16 Thomas Kleman <lorient422@...> wrote:

My original 100 amp Dolphin died about 4 years ago, and it made me nervous anyway because it lacked a battery temperature sensor. I replaced it with a 100 amp Mastervolt charger, which seems to have died this weekend....having verified all connections and voltage and still getting nothing. Wondering what others have chosen when replacing the Dolphin. Having done several hours of customer complaint sleuthing it seems that the Mastervolt can be temperature sensitive and the battery chargers on a SM are relatively close to the gen.

Hi Bill R., 

I was specifically replying to Gary Silver and his thread on the Calpeda AC Pump. It  looks like his last response is imbedded below mine in my email, and my response looks like it is still attached to the main thread in my e-mail inbox.  But perhaps in the forum or your email it shows up separately and would thus of course it would be difficult to see the context. As I am remote in the western Carribean, I am pretty limited to my smart phone functionality.

In one of Gary's e-mails he expressed interest in what other boats were measuring; therefore my description of measurements were in response to his measurements at the Calpeda AC sea water pump for the various conditions that I described.

 

When the pump was wired but switched off at the breaker I had one set of readings, another when the main 30amp GFCI was switched off, and then when I disconected the supply wires at the pump I had another set of readings on across the three wires.  I think that my readings are consistent with US power supply having 220 supplied by 110 on one supply and the other 110 being supplied on the 2nd hot wire 180 degrees off phase.  However,  I will take your point to check the pedestal and the 60Hz shore power plug (as it was wired by the previous owner :-) ) 

I also agree with Danny's response supporting full disconnect at the pedistal; however in this case I did my tests carefully with power supplied in order to try to understand and provide some supportive data to Gary's observations.

Thanks and regards, Daniel Carlson on sv BeBe SM#387

On Sat, Apr 27, 2019, 11:05 AM CW Bill Rouse <brouse@... wrote:

Dan,

I am a little lost as to where exactly you are measuring the voltage, but will generally respond.

Sounds to me like you could have 120v on the Earth wire (yellow/green) because you show zero between brown and blue. 

Causes:

• This could be caused by shore power cable/plug wired incorrectly. I have seen the Earth wire (yellow/green) connected to the center post of a USA plug rather than to the metal sleeve of the plug. 
• I have also seen marina pedestals wired wrong placing voltage on Earth wire (yellow/green) 
• I have also seen this happen when using a pedestal shared with another boat which is wired wrong. 

I would trace starting with the pedestal connection.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

On Sat, Apr 27, 2019, 12:14 PM Dan Carlson <carlsdan61@...> wrote:

Hi Gary,

I am on BeBe at Red Frog Marina in Panama wit 60Hz shore power.  I just checked, with all the AC breakers off but  the main GFI on, and I have: 1)  120v from blue to yellow/green, as well as from brown to the yellow/green. 2) I show 0 volts AC accross the blue to brown contacts (I don't understand how you could measure 240 v across the Blue to brown when the motor is not running?). 3) when I turn of the main GFI breaker there is no voltage.    I did not test the generator.  

That is a shocking discovery!  It would be very interesting to get confirmation of the voltages from a boat on 50 Hz supply. 

One thought: Could the stray voltage be coming back from the capacitor.  It shows 0 across the Blue to brow because the voltage on the blue and brown are on the same cycle when there is only one 120v source?  To test this I disconnected the blue and brown wires and measured the voltage of these independently: Blue wire to yellow/green was 120v, Brown wire to yellow/green showed 39v (Stray voltage?).  The voltage across the Blue to Brown was 120v.

I'm surprised this has not come up before, as it creates a very unsafe condition for one assuming the circuit is de-energized.  My conclusion is to disconnect at the pedistal when working on the AC circuits to be safe.

Daniel Carlson on sv BeBe, SM#387

On Fri, Apr 19, 2019, 9:37 PM Gary Silver via Groups.Io <garysilver=mac.com@groups.io wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

Hi Bill and Eric:

Yes, all the 220 panel CBs are double pole (both Line [brown] and Neutral [Blue] are switched).  With all breakers open (tripped) there is still 240 VAC across the blue and brown leads at the Calpeda Pump when hooked to shore power, but not when the genset is running.  Looking at the Climma schematic (really more of a diagram) the neutral and safety ground wires are wire straight thru from the "separate source" and the Line [brown] from the separate source is switched by the relays to provide line voltage to the pump when a given unit is switched on. So I can see perhaps that there might be 110 voltage between the blue and safety ground at the pump from this "seperate source" but not the 220 that I am seeing.  Olivier, are you there?   What is the separate source for the Climma relay box?

I believe that the "other source" supply for the relay box is directly wired from the 220 volt buss just down-stream from the GFCI 30 amp breaker on the side of the 220 volt panel before it is distributed to any of the CBs (Diruptors).  The difference between Euro power and US power is noted and somehow plays into this.   Will continue to puzzle this out along with you.  Perhaps I need to get to sail to some European power, plug in and see if the mystery voltage goes away.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Gary S. Silver
s/v Liahona
Amel SM 2000 # 335
Puerto Rico 

Dan,

I am a little lost as to where exactly you are measuring the voltage, but will generally respond.

Sounds to me like you could have 120v on the Earth wire (yellow/green) because you show zero between brown and blue. 

Causes:

• This could be caused by shore power cable/plug wired incorrectly. I have seen the Earth wire (yellow/green) connected to the center post of a USA plug rather than to the metal sleeve of the plug. 
• I have also seen marina pedestals wired wrong placing voltage on Earth wire (yellow/green) 
• I have also seen this happen when using a pedestal shared with another boat which is wired wrong. 

I would trace starting with the pedestal connection.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

On Sat, Apr 27, 2019, 12:14 PM Dan Carlson <carlsdan61@...> wrote:

Hi Gary,

I am on BeBe at Red Frog Marina in Panama wit 60Hz shore power.  I just checked, with all the AC breakers off but  the main GFI on, and I have: 1)  120v from blue to yellow/green, as well as from brown to the yellow/green. 2) I show 0 volts AC accross the blue to brown contacts (I don't understand how you could measure 240 v across the Blue to brown when the motor is not running?). 3) when I turn of the main GFI breaker there is no voltage.    I did not test the generator.  

That is a shocking discovery!  It would be very interesting to get confirmation of the voltages from a boat on 50 Hz supply. 

One thought: Could the stray voltage be coming back from the capacitor.  It shows 0 across the Blue to brow because the voltage on the blue and brown are on the same cycle when there is only one 120v source?  To test this I disconnected the blue and brown wires and measured the voltage of these independently: Blue wire to yellow/green was 120v, Brown wire to yellow/green showed 39v (Stray voltage?).  The voltage across the Blue to Brown was 120v.

I'm surprised this has not come up before, as it creates a very unsafe condition for one assuming the circuit is de-energized.  My conclusion is to disconnect at the pedistal when working on the AC circuits to be safe.

Daniel Carlson on sv BeBe, SM#387

On Fri, Apr 19, 2019, 9:37 PM Gary Silver via Groups.Io <garysilver=mac.com@groups.io wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

Hi Bill and Eric:

Yes, all the 220 panel CBs are double pole (both Line [brown] and Neutral [Blue] are switched).  With all breakers open (tripped) there is still 240 VAC across the blue and brown leads at the Calpeda Pump when hooked to shore power, but not when the genset is running.  Looking at the Climma schematic (really more of a diagram) the neutral and safety ground wires are wire straight thru from the "separate source" and the Line [brown] from the separate source is switched by the relays to provide line voltage to the pump when a given unit is switched on. So I can see perhaps that there might be 110 voltage between the blue and safety ground at the pump from this "seperate source" but not the 220 that I am seeing.  Olivier, are you there?   What is the separate source for the Climma relay box?

I believe that the "other source" supply for the relay box is directly wired from the 220 volt buss just down-stream from the GFCI 30 amp breaker on the side of the 220 volt panel before it is distributed to any of the CBs (Diruptors).  The difference between Euro power and US power is noted and somehow plays into this.   Will continue to puzzle this out along with you.  Perhaps I need to get to sail to some European power, plug in and see if the mystery voltage goes away.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Gary S. Silver
s/v Liahona
Amel SM 2000 # 335
Puerto Rico